Latest / Between The Rounds Official / Steven O'Rourke — Building Champions: Trust, Tactics & the Mental Game
Transcript
- Sarah: Stephen, welcome to Between the Rounds. ⁓ Thank you very much, Sarah. ⁓ Before we get into specifics, For those who haven't walked through the doors boxing gym, what can they expect to feel when they walk through the doors, it's going to be technical, it's going to be tough and it's going to be a happy environment. I walked into O'Rourke's boxing gym expecting a highly technical coach and I got was something so much more. ⁓ A who cared just as much about what was happening between my two ears as he about developing me as a technically sound fighter. Steven O'Rourke is club coach, has been coaching for over 30 years. ⁓ And today I to sit down with Steven where he's going to share some into how he coaches and how he his fighter. Now I know you shared a beautiful story on Rocky Road Podcast recently so I do want to take this in a bit of a different direction however there was one piece of that podcast that did stand out to me and you talked about not having stability in coaching up you know during your own boxing experience how of that influenced and designed the way that you wanted to kind of build this business? you've to sometimes learn you got to throw yourself in the deep end ⁓ and you know you to sink or swim ⁓ And fortunately for me, I swam and I kept swimming. you know, sometimes it's some bad currents. you you just got to push through it. And the background that was brought up in gave me great strength. I have got great mental strength. You know, if I do come up against something, I will dig deep and I will push through it. So you've coached Ryan for, since he was six years old? Well, I was only talking about this at the day, he actually came in the gym when he was probably around six or seven months and he used have him in a little chair, used to rock him and I think so. He's always been in the gym, I made sure that their career was always around, they always fitness around there, you know, because that's one thing I'm happy about as a father, that my kids are fit and happy What's the hardest part about training your son Well, I'll go back to the early days when it was dad and son and it was a lot easier then. Do know when he was, you know, eight, nine, 10? 11, 12, 13, 14. He never answered back. So it was like the dad thing, you know. And I'm sure most coaches and fathers will say this. You know, I had total control of him. But you know, he's his own man. So when he gets to 18, 19, you know, he started to have his own input. And I've other coaches and that's sometimes you get that little push and push. But I said to myself, no, ⁓ he's in boxing all his life so his input to me is very important. And the he's got older, I was only pads with him other day ⁓ and I just to him, I put my input in ⁓ and then he put input in and I took his input. So, yeah, that's how we work now. I actually take a lot of notice of what my son says. And he still takes a lot of notice of me, obviously. He doesn't look at fighters so much as I do. I analyze fighters and that type of coach I'm old school. And so we have this good partnership where, I'm saying this is the tactics. He might say somewhere in there, I'll tweak that, dad. tweak this or just want to come in a little bit and that's how we work. I love that because I think we've seen quite a few father-son and fighter-coach relationships where it becomes quite damaging right in terms of that dominance of kind of the father figure and then like the blurred lines between both so you would say that kind of main thing within the success of your relationship has been your willingness to kind of hear his feedback? I think that's why we're still successful is because I'm not that Dominant you have to do this way. You've got to do it this way. I Really? I really appreciate his input because he's he's IQ in boxing. He's brilliant So why shouldn't I why shouldn't I you know take notice of him? And that goes through that goes through all the fighters because I think that's a healthy relationship It's just like a relationship in it, know, have your wife if you just dominant over your wife Then it's not you know, in my view. It's not dominant, you know I'm sure my missus will say, she has I think Gina wears the pants Half of them. ⁓ the type of fighter that he'll adapt. we will adapt. We have a plan A, ⁓ have a plan B ⁓ we also have a plan C. ⁓ I don't just coach ⁓ to long range. It's just yourself, ⁓ you you came from America, in my opinion, ⁓ you was a mid-range fighter. then ⁓ what did we have to do? to get you into the long range and took a few weeks to... to make that adaption for you. now you're still working on it, but there was good improvements there. Yeah, you're improving because now you're not only a mid-range fighter, can, know, tactically we can move you around and step back and get in your long range. And then if we want to bring the range in, we can bring the range into your comfortable range. What you've been kind of fighting at most of your career. What do great fighters do? Adapt in the moment. Absolutely. ⁓ I know, I think he said Terence Crawford was ⁓ his favourite fighter and ⁓ look at Crawford. can adapt to surrounded him within seconds ⁓ and that's makes great fighters. Taking the coach's hat off for a second a what does it feel like watching him ⁓ I'm just so of him, yeah. ⁓ I'm dead proud of my son, yeah. ⁓ Anything what does, even ⁓ what he does from on, I'm just a proud dad. And look at him and a young man outside of the and he's very well-mannered. He conducts himself I can only ⁓ what other people say about him and he's just a well-mannered young man and he's all in in the sport I think you've taught him that discipline so well and like yeah he respects the sport which I think is a great thing to see I think today sometimes they look at the emergence ⁓ you ⁓ know, social media fighting stuff like that and ⁓ they're getting well paid for young lads got to understand ⁓ they have much money, these lads. and what I'm saying is the small hall shows is the way to go build your fan base, build your skill set and if it takes 14 and 15 fights, don't worry about it. You don't have to be a champion at 16 , 17 in because what's gonna happen there is, know, other commissioners gonna look at you and go, what do you know, he's a champion you know. They're trying to fast track you up through that and then And then your level's jump And if you're not ready for them levels. It's such an unforgiving sport and you know that yourself. It's such unforgiving. ⁓ levels are very important in this game. ⁓ Yeah, and it's an exciting weight division. Absolutely, mean Ryan's a big boy for 140 and like I told you, if you think he fights at long range, get that out of your head. Because if you break the long range, like I was taught boxing that when you get to a level, you're not only breaking down the fighter, you're actually breaking down his defence. If you can't break your fighters defense, you have to go to plan B. I know you've touched on my... story a little bit. So I came in coming up the amateur system in the US, competed in national tournaments there and a little bit of exposure to high performance camps and what that looked like. I'm much older in the sport but you gave me a chance ⁓ and I'm curious to hear what did you see in me coming through those doors that you willing take that chance? ⁓ Well one of your strengths, one of your biggest strengths was ⁓ your mental ability to adapt, your fitness was unbelievable. So, you your ticking boxes all ready for me, you know, because some kids are very talented, but they don't have the discipline. So, but you walk through your door, you have the discipline straight away. So, what I've seen in you was an hunger as well, an hunger to learn. Even, you know, you're 38 years of age, you know, sometimes your hunger will... start to decrease at that but no you came in and you're hungry and your willingness to learn was unbelievable and we took you now I think my personal opinion you've gone two or three levels up yeah so for me your long range your mid range is all getting there We sat on the body suit the other day again, I found something else about you. at close quarter, you're very, strong. So, you you're ticking boxes all the time. And I love that because I can work with you. How do you decide who's deserving of your coaching and kind of what do you need to see from a fighter? as I've got older and my time is a little bit less I really only want to work with fighters that you are absolutely 110 % dedicated because I'm 110 % dedicated How do you build trust with a fighter and especially a fighter who's come into you later in life or somebody who's transitioned from another coach, I think it happens over a period of time. think personalities play a big part in it. I have to gel with a fighter. The fighter has to believe in what I'm telling him. and then we're going in the corner you're coming back you're believing in what I'm saying ⁓ that gives as a coach great you know just yeah yeah I'm building that relationship And then you build from that. I do want to touch on kind of the mental aspect a little bit, because I think that's kind of where, you you've had your biggest challenges with me, would say. fighter's mind works a little bit differently. How do you learn what makes each one tick and kind of how do you tap into that? Well, I can honestly say sometimes your mental strength can wean a little bit. You can be completely honest here. Yeah, yeah. wouldn't say it's a weakness. I think it's more ⁓ of, you know, looking around for Reassurance, yeah. And as a coach, have kind of... Sometimes you're than a coach, aren't So I have be kind of psychological with you and say listen Sarah it's not always about winning. it's about you. So had a good performance, you thought you had a bad performance. So sometimes I'll get you, we'll look at the tape ⁓ then what would you say to me? I didnt do too bad. So it's all in your head. ⁓ sometimes I to get into your head and say, no Sarah, look at the footage. And boxing is that, sometimes it's 99 % in your head, innit? how do you meet a fighter where they're at when they're going through that struggle of not believing in themselves? that one-to-one management and you have to have that as a coach. And it's always, you're always with fighters like yourself, can never be negative. That's what I'll say to any coach. Don't be negative with them. because you're going through a little bit of a turmoil and you're a great fighter you do everything right your training is right, your technique is right and then we have to deal with the psychological little bit and sometimes that's a battle with you and I will have a battle with psychologically not physically not it's psychological so yeah we have a little battle sometimes don't we yeah you might say this I might say but I am always positive yeah because I you have to be positive yeah and then that rubs off on you and then and I actually loved the task-based sparring setting a specific goal not over like I'd come out my laundry list if I here's all the things I need to work on Let's break this down. For the first round, I want you to do these two things. so I'm not overwhelmed by everything that's going on. Ryan will tell you, he'll go out just to do three specific things. Because obviously, even as an amateur, you're gonna go out and, you know, you out to the ring and your head's going... So if I tell you as a coach, just on the first round, just work your jab, work your back hand and make sure your feet is moving. Just three simple things. That's how I'll coach you, just three simple things. And that's the art of coaching, think. Sometimes, you know, you can't just have one glove and just you're doing it this way. you get older in coaching, you kind of learn to adapt to your fighter and have to slow it down, just give small tasks the ring and you'll come back the ring and ⁓ you've accomplished. those two or three things that I told you to do and then we're building every round. The second round comes out, you've got the confidence and you see it building in every round. Can you walk me through how you prepare a fighter for a specific opponent and how deep does the study go for you specifically? Well, I'll go as deep as I think I need to go. If the guy is a basic fighter he just comes forward then we'll have tactics for that. know every fighter you have tactics for and you can go you can actually go back to the amateur days for that because there's great learning in the amateur days. I think you do learn a lot of tactics in the amateur game. So yeah for every fighter you can analyze them. Sometimes I think coaches analyze them too much. And it's so true what they say, have to, you know, sometimes a fighter looks fantastic and it is, styles make fights. But what is interesting is when you have to also look at the opponent that they're fighting. Absolutely. he doesn't tell the true tale, does he? ⁓ But you build your fight, and now it's come to point now. Where we feel that Ryan has got his skill set to go on to be you know I think he's British level now and but you know he's got the skill set. Yeah, he has absolutely He's developed well and he's the next stage is just around the corner for them and although I'll always say to this don't push your fighters I like the British set up where might do you might go 14 fights in before you even win any title because they're making sure that them fighters are at that level. They've it all. We've obviously worked on code names for certain combinations and how did that system develop for you and why does it matter mid-fight? Sometimes you can and I'll say this to a lot of amateur coaches, a lot of amateurs used to coming in and they'd be literally... telling the fighter left hand, know, back hand left hook and I used to say to my fighters listen to the, listen to the coach in the corner. So, yeah, sometimes we have, little code words to set up shots and set up shots, but I think most coaches to do that. Do you know what I mean? No, I love it. Cause it also, it kind of has this little adrenaline kick for me anyway. like, oh yeah, I get to do that now. And you kind of like sussing out where's the placement of that. Yeah, it's great. ⁓ What's style ⁓ between rounds so when fighter comes back to in the corner, what's the general style that you like to take? I'm quite calm in the corner. I'll stick to what we've trained for the last eight or nine weeks and You know, I'll tell you combinations that we've worked on. So I might say, you you gotta get your defense a little bit tighter, because you you might come back a little bit marked up So it's just little things, but you basically have worked for eight or nine weeks on combinations. So I'm gonna keep. we have to adapt. I sometimes tell Ryan to adapt, he'll adapt himself, that's how good he is. ⁓ if a fighter that actually relies on the coach, yeah, we stick to the things but sometimes fighters will adapt and that's what makes... A great fighter relationship. Absolutely. Has there ever been a fight or scenario where a fighter isn't hearing you and how do you kind of work through that? Like obviously you're waiting between the rounds to kind of give that direction or the reminder of that direction, but mid-fight right you're obviously calling out some things. How do you kind of work through that yourself as a coach when they're not hearing you? quite difficult because know you're emotionally attached to the fighters. had one instance just wasn't listening ⁓ know what I in the corner I said listen ⁓ know it's not going our way tonight I said if you don't do ⁓ I'm you I'm gonna pull it and he was yeah you know don't pull it don't pull it and I said ⁓ we don't change the tactics you in this round and the next ⁓ I said you know you probably won't win this fight and he did out tactically and he started to improve but then for some reason he went back into his thing and he lost the fight so after the fight there was little bit of bollocking off me but you do ⁓ sometimes happens sometimes the fighter will switch off ⁓ and ⁓ he'll go his own way and that works and ⁓ nine I said it doesn't work you can't be too harsh on him in the corner because you've got duty of care as well. It's bit frustrating, yeah, but you just have to go through it and still have that duty of care in your mind if it goes too much, you know, pull it. So you talked a little bit on like you keep a very calm approach in the corner. Is there ever scenarios where sometimes a fighter might need a little bit more of a push and that elevation in terms of feedback? Oh yeah, mean, the last time we was in Madison Square Garden, so I was moving with Cian McMahon and it's actually on video, and I said, know, how much do you fucking want this? And I don't usually swear in the corner, and so, and he was like, he looking at me, I said, this is Madison Square Garden, know, fucking get out there, and he did! He did, he did, he turned it around, because I actually, he bollocked him, you know what mean, because I knew it was the... biggest fight of his career. Well it was, at Madison Square Garden, a little bit of a backdrop. He said to his grandad, want to fight in Madison Square as a child. And I was like that, come on Keano He got up and the commentator, I can't remember who the commentator was, and he said, he just had a ball of Keenon on his goals. And yeah, he did it. I love to see that too, because sometimes, yeah, it becomes so laser focused on... what you need to accomplish as opposed to feeding the energy of the space. And even Ryan had mentioned when we caught up that he actually loves the smaller environments where the crowd was almost encroaching on the ring. it's like he's just feeding off that energy. You can hear the crowd. Turning a little bit from just obviously you've trained a lot of guys. What's the difference between what it's like training female fighters? I just love training female fighters because the buzz that you bring into the gym, I've had Mary-kate Slattery she was great. I've had a few girls and yeah, it's a joy. It's different as well. It's a slightly different approach. how so? Well, I'm not, you know, sometimes I shout and swear at the lads, but I still love that. when you call us good boys sometimes too. Well I do get mixed up sometimes. I love the energy and the being a different dynamic to the gym. it's great and again like I said I think you tapping into the psychological aspect I think makes women feel safe in that space it's not dismissed in any way and obviously women's pro boxing is exploding at the moment you'd obviously like to have a few more females. Yes, you. No comment, no comment. What do you see as being the biggest difference between fighters coming up in the amateur system and then developing into the pro system? Well, I've just got one Oisin Oisin Warzencroft. beautiful fighter, beautiful amateur fighter, know, long range, absolutely beautiful, feed work. You know, so it's gonna take... And serious popping of shots. Oh, absolutely, you know, he's gonna compete at Superbantam weight he's big for the weight, strong. Kids today think, in two years I'm gonna be an Irish champion, I'm gonna be this, I'm gonna be that. No, you know, there's levels, there's levels. Where do you see Irish boxing now compared to where it was 5 or 10 years ago? Oh, absolutely. You know, you have give credit to J.Byrne and what he's done. He's built from nothing into what he is now. And you've also got sheer sports coming in. there'd be promoters coming in and they didn't really understand the Irish scene, you know what mean? Where, ⁓ know, J.Byrne was an Irish fighter and he had to go across the water sometimes to... get pay day you know what mean? So he's coming in and he's built from scratch and he's doing great. You have to say, down in the south, he's doing great. And then you've got also Sheer Sports, which Ryan is, that's his promoter, they're doing great. They're having shows in, know, in Donegal and things like that. So ⁓ that it keeps going, ⁓ keeps feeding into it and Jay Byrne said he'll bring English fighters to this country. What I was just going to say, there's talk of obviously Crowe Park for Katie Taylor but potentially Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua on that card. What are your thoughts on that matchup? Well yeah you can see the money side of it because they'll bring the revenue in and then it'll give Irish fighters on the undercard that platform and if that's the way it's going to go it's going to be great. It's going to be great for lads like Ryan he's going to be great for Oisin he's Senan Kelly, he's coming up to that point in his career where he needs the big platforms. So that's brilliant. looking at the future, you have a granddaughter on the way, do we see a future O'Rourke's fighter? Well I did say to my daughter, said, now we don't know the little baby's name but she's a girl so they won't tell me the name yet. Well, she's already got her fists up. no, she'll be in this gym. She'll follow the O'Rourke Rule yeah, 100%. Amazing. done, what do you want O'Rourke's Boxing Gym to be remembered for? I want it to be remembered ⁓ for its standards. High Love that. And final question, what's the biggest lesson boxing has taught you? to be humble. Be humble. Steven thank you for sharing insights into how you shape your fighters. Appreciate it. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you. This is Between the Rounds. We will see you on the next episode.