Latest / Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast / Episode 59 - With Simone Rist

Transcript

Episode 59 - With Simone Rist · Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: You are listening to Tom's Hirshbrun's Podcast, where our provide
0:08
Speaker 1: a look into the remarkable experiences of the most inspiring
0:11
Speaker 1: people around Hirshprung's disease and sports. Hello and welcome to
0:39
Speaker 1: episode fifty nine of Tom's Hirshprunk's podcast. A very special
0:44
Speaker 1: author with me joins all the way from Australia. She
0:50
Speaker 1: is the author of Oscar the Unstoppable that we're going
0:53
Speaker 1: to talk about later on in the program. A huge
0:56
Speaker 1: welcome to Simone Risk. Welcome to the podcast.
1:00
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tom, thanks for having me. I'm excited to
1:02
Speaker 2: be here.
1:03
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming on. I think, as we
1:06
Speaker 1: were talking a little bit beforehand, we have sort of
1:09
Speaker 1: tried to get this going for a while. So I'm
1:13
Speaker 1: very very happy to get you on. And I've had
1:16
Speaker 1: a lot of requests from people saying, you really need
1:18
Speaker 1: to get some owed on, you really need to get
1:20
Speaker 1: her on. I'm trying. I've definitely tried. We will manage it,
1:25
Speaker 1: and today we have so I am delighted, absolutely delighted
1:29
Speaker 1: to be joined by you. Now, we did mention that
1:33
Speaker 1: you are the author of Oscar the unsoppom and we
1:36
Speaker 1: will talk about that most definitely a little bit later on.
1:39
Speaker 1: But first of all, would you like to explain who
1:42
Speaker 1: Oscar is?
1:44
Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely, so is my firstborn child. He is seven
1:50
Speaker 2: years old in April, so, yes, and he was diagnosed
1:56
Speaker 2: with hershbruns a couple of days after So. I had
2:02
Speaker 2: a complicated pregnancy and was closely watched up until Oscar
2:07
Speaker 2: was born. And it was probably about day two he
2:12
Speaker 2: wasn't feeding. You know. We had pediatrics come in and
2:17
Speaker 2: exalmon and kind of assess and they were like, no,
2:21
Speaker 2: he's fine, to be discharged. And the midwife was actually
2:24
Speaker 2: the one who was really concerned, and she actually had
2:28
Speaker 2: mentioned hersh runs at the time. She said, oh, I'm
2:30
Speaker 2: feeling like, you know, he's not feeding, he's got these symptoms.
2:34
Speaker 2: Have you heard about Hirschrum's disease? And I said no,
2:37
Speaker 2: I'll have it. At that point, I was so sleek, decrived.
2:40
Speaker 2: I just wanted to go home. I was feeling quite frustrated.
2:44
Speaker 2: He was then transferred to nursery and he was started
2:48
Speaker 2: to be tube fed, and he immediately kind of had
2:51
Speaker 2: these reactions and started vomiting. And that's when we were
2:55
Speaker 2: transferred to the PERF Children's Hospital, which is about forty
3:00
Speaker 2: forty five minutes from where we live. And so at
3:03
Speaker 2: that point I had already been in hospital about six
3:05
Speaker 2: days and he was transferred on day three or four.
3:11
Speaker 2: We were after his birth, and so we got into
3:15
Speaker 2: the pres Children's hoschool quite late at night on a
3:17
Speaker 2: Saturday night, you know, it was skeleton staff, and they said,
3:22
Speaker 2: you've got to wait till Monday for a biopsy. And
3:24
Speaker 2: in our heads, we're what do you mean we have
3:26
Speaker 2: to wait until Monday. So on the Monday they did
3:31
Speaker 2: a biopsy and they didn't get the results back, I
3:34
Speaker 2: think for a couple of days. But at that point
3:36
Speaker 2: they were like, look, we're pretty certain it's Hirshbrum's. We're
3:40
Speaker 2: going to book in for the surgery. And it wasn't
3:43
Speaker 2: until the following week. So Oscar was thirteen days old
3:47
Speaker 2: when he had his surgery. And leading up to that
3:50
Speaker 2: point of his surgery day, we were doing lots of research.
3:55
Speaker 2: We were trying to find out more, trying to what
3:57
Speaker 2: was this disease that all these doctors would tell is about.
4:00
Speaker 2: And you know, the doctors would come around once a day,
4:05
Speaker 2: you know, do their checks. You know, we'd have nursing
4:08
Speaker 2: throughout the day, but it was such a limited time
4:11
Speaker 2: you couldn't ask them questions, or if you did, you
4:13
Speaker 2: felt like you were imposing on the next person's time.
4:16
Speaker 2: So my husband and I were trying to do as
4:18
Speaker 2: much research as we could, and we were just my
4:20
Speaker 2: husband was reading medical journals. He he is very knowledgeable
4:26
Speaker 2: himself in terms of he's a researcher, so he was
4:30
Speaker 2: kind of doing all of this research trying to find out. No,
4:33
Speaker 2: I don't want and I'm very much a personable person,
4:36
Speaker 2: so I'm like, I don't want researcher and I want
4:38
Speaker 2: people's experiences. I want to know a lived experience as
4:41
Speaker 2: to what's happening for families, and you know there, I
4:45
Speaker 2: want to hear from everyday life people. I couldn't find
4:48
Speaker 2: anything at the time. So, you know, surgery day came
4:52
Speaker 2: around and we were becoming more knowledgeable on it and
4:55
Speaker 2: just having longer discussions with the medical staff, and so
4:59
Speaker 2: leading up to that point, he was having bow wash
5:01
Speaker 2: outs every kind of six to twelve hours and he
5:05
Speaker 2: was responding well to feeds. So they thought they had
5:09
Speaker 2: said to us and their lead up, oh, look, his
5:10
Speaker 2: surgery is probably going to be about four hours. We
5:12
Speaker 2: think he's got you know, a really short segment in
5:16
Speaker 2: terms of that needs to be removed. So he went
5:19
Speaker 2: in for surgery at one at one pm in the afternoon,
5:22
Speaker 2: we were like, okay, cool, we'll be back here at
5:25
Speaker 2: you know, five ish, you know, we'll be back on ward,
5:28
Speaker 2: et cetera. So we went home for a little bit
5:31
Speaker 2: just to kind of regroup and get more of our
5:33
Speaker 2: belongings because at that point we've already been in hospital
5:36
Speaker 2: for two weeks, hadn't been home, hadn't really kind of
5:40
Speaker 2: paid much attention to our dog, and so we kind
5:44
Speaker 2: of regrouped, and you know, five o'clock mark came and
5:46
Speaker 2: we hadn't had a phone call, and six o'clock and
5:50
Speaker 2: then I think we got a phone call around you know,
5:52
Speaker 2: six or seven o'clock saying it was still going to
5:54
Speaker 2: be a couple more hours. And at that point we
5:57
Speaker 2: were like, so, does this mean he's going to have
5:59
Speaker 2: a does this mean he is going to have you know,
6:03
Speaker 2: a short segment? And at that point they couldn't really
6:05
Speaker 2: tell us. So what they were doing was biopsy in
6:09
Speaker 2: every one centimeter of his bow to determine, running it
6:12
Speaker 2: off to the lab, coming back waiting for the results.
6:16
Speaker 2: Yes there's live there's living ganglion cells, or no, there isn't.
6:21
Speaker 2: So they did that up to the to the point
6:23
Speaker 2: of the transverse colon, and they said that that was
6:26
Speaker 2: their last opportunity, the last biopsy that they did before
6:30
Speaker 2: they would have had to put a stowing a bag in,
6:34
Speaker 2: so he he had living cells just before his transverse
6:41
Speaker 2: so he didn't end up having a bag. And so
6:45
Speaker 2: his surgery in total was eight hours and I guess
6:50
Speaker 2: they and I think it was around twenty or twenty
6:52
Speaker 2: five centimeters that was removed. So we ended up back
6:57
Speaker 2: on board with him about nine thirty PM, and then
7:00
Speaker 2: he had another just over about a week and a
7:02
Speaker 2: half of recovery, and definitely those kind of two days
7:06
Speaker 2: after his surgery. It was quite different to see him
7:10
Speaker 2: recovering from all the medication that he would have had,
7:13
Speaker 2: et cetera. And then posts that we're actually discharged on
7:19
Speaker 2: his due date, which was a very special kind of experience.
7:23
Speaker 2: And then we got home and it was really surreal
7:26
Speaker 2: because there was no beeping, there was no daily obs,
7:29
Speaker 2: there was no or three hourly obs. It took us
7:33
Speaker 2: a while to kind of get back into home life,
7:35
Speaker 2: and then we actually had to be back at the
7:37
Speaker 2: hospital every week for checkups, and then we started the
7:43
Speaker 2: dilation process, which went on for about it was, it
7:48
Speaker 2: was about eleven months. And I understand now there's actually
7:51
Speaker 2: been a big shift in how long dilation now the
7:56
Speaker 2: curse hall compared to when Oscar was young, it's quite
7:59
Speaker 2: a shorter stint now. So we were spending a lot
8:02
Speaker 2: of time at the hospital. But at that point here
8:05
Speaker 2: in Wa Children's Hospital was actually being upgraded, and so
8:10
Speaker 2: we had had this experience of where he was on
8:14
Speaker 2: ward and then when he when we were going back
8:18
Speaker 2: for appointments, we're at this brand new hospital. It's just
8:22
Speaker 2: stated of the beautiful, amazing hospital. So it's a really
8:25
Speaker 2: nice transition because then all of our hospital appointments were
8:28
Speaker 2: a really different experience for us and for him. I
8:32
Speaker 2: mean it kind of feeling like a fresh start and
8:35
Speaker 2: you know, we're on the road to recovery, et cetera.
8:38
Speaker 2: So yeah, he had kind of weekly, fortnightly, monthly appointments
8:44
Speaker 2: up until he was about eighteen months old two years
8:46
Speaker 2: and then he was transferred to the like a colorectual
8:51
Speaker 2: intensive team where they've got you know, a variety of
8:55
Speaker 2: professionals on the team, and they were kind of three
9:00
Speaker 2: monthly than six monthly, and now they're currently yearly appointments,
9:04
Speaker 2: so he's still involved in that team. We've actually got
9:08
Speaker 2: an appointment coming up Spoon, So it's been Yeah, it's
9:14
Speaker 2: been a it's been an interesting journey and for us
9:16
Speaker 2: as parents, learning along the way all the different hurdles
9:20
Speaker 2: that we were faced with, but all the different wins
9:22
Speaker 2: as well, and just learning about the disease and connecting
9:26
Speaker 2: with other parents. I think he's probably been the biggest
9:29
Speaker 2: win for us, and learning more about the disease from
9:33
Speaker 2: lived experiences and having that connection with others is just incredible.
9:40
Speaker 2: There was a time in his life where he it
9:43
Speaker 2: was about the age of between the age of about
9:45
Speaker 2: two to three and a half, where he was having
9:47
Speaker 2: regular episodes of enterpolitis and at the time we had
9:53
Speaker 2: thought he was just having gas stro It was, you know,
9:57
Speaker 2: the symptoms present very much like Gastro was pregnant when
10:01
Speaker 2: he was about three. I was pregnant with our second child,
10:03
Speaker 2: and you know, juggling what you thought was Gastro and
10:07
Speaker 2: you know, pregnancy at the time was just like, oh,
10:10
Speaker 2: what is going on? And so we ended up kind
10:13
Speaker 2: of speaking with his surgeon again about Okay, does he
10:16
Speaker 2: need another surgery. You know, this was happening way through
10:20
Speaker 2: regularly for it to be something that we could actually
10:24
Speaker 2: you know, we understood that something needed to shift. So
10:28
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, we saw the surgeon and
10:30
Speaker 2: they either had recommended botox or you know, some kind
10:35
Speaker 2: of other form of intervention. And because my husband, it's
10:39
Speaker 2: very much a researcher and kind of looks into more things,
10:42
Speaker 2: and we started to kind of delve a little bit deeper,
10:45
Speaker 2: and we kind of started to look at his diet
10:47
Speaker 2: and looking at different ways that we could actually manage
10:51
Speaker 2: the entricollias. So we actually spoke to the surgeon and
10:55
Speaker 2: he recommended that as an alternative, we could engage with
10:59
Speaker 2: a dietitian and a physio who he was actually connected with,
11:02
Speaker 2: and they were specialist dietitians and physios who specifically work
11:05
Speaker 2: with children with vowl diseesars. So we engaged with them
11:12
Speaker 2: and that was probably one of the most significant, like
11:15
Speaker 2: life changing points for him. So he went, we started
11:20
Speaker 2: on a low FOD map diet and eliminated you know, glue, glincos,
11:26
Speaker 2: fructos and lactose and then we did the we immediately.
11:31
Speaker 2: It was probably within about a month or six weeks
11:34
Speaker 2: that we saw the complete stop of entripolatis and an
11:39
Speaker 2: immediate change because we we had removed all of those
11:42
Speaker 2: We kind of followed blow Ford map to an absolute
11:45
Speaker 2: tea and the whole family like we were doing it
11:47
Speaker 2: as a whole family, and it was it was interesting
11:54
Speaker 2: because we hadn't really known about this, or there hadn't
11:56
Speaker 2: been a lot of talk about diet or low fond
12:02
Speaker 2: map because a lot of the kind of research or
12:04
Speaker 2: things that we were looking at just automatically fell to surgery,
12:06
Speaker 2: kept falling to surgery, and we didn't he was already
12:11
Speaker 2: gaining quite a lot of anxiety towards medical appointments, so
12:15
Speaker 2: we didn't want him to continue to have those experiences.
12:18
Speaker 2: And we were kind of thinking, Okay, well, what can
12:20
Speaker 2: we do. Is this something else that we can do?
12:21
Speaker 2: And we obviously knew what you put into your body
12:24
Speaker 2: can really have an impact and et cetera. So we
12:28
Speaker 2: then started the reintroduction process, you know, very kind of
12:32
Speaker 2: strict you'd have to do like really small portions of
12:34
Speaker 2: fructose and then only reintroduced one at a time, and
12:38
Speaker 2: you know, like we follow the dietician's advice on that,
12:41
Speaker 2: and it took probably the whole process took about a
12:44
Speaker 2: year and a half to now get to a point
12:46
Speaker 2: where we know how much gluten he can kind of manage,
12:50
Speaker 2: and then how much fructose he can manage, and how
12:53
Speaker 2: much lactose he can manage. So, for example, lactose is
12:57
Speaker 2: probably his biggest impact, so he has latchosepree you know,
13:02
Speaker 2: milk and yogurt. But then if it's it, there's a
13:04
Speaker 2: cake being made, it's fine and a cake, and it's
13:08
Speaker 2: just saying like you know, he'd eat an apple, where
13:10
Speaker 2: now it's kind of like, okay, we need to half
13:12
Speaker 2: an apples manageable versus three apples for example, for fructose,
13:16
Speaker 2: and it's just saying it's gluten. He can't have gloom
13:19
Speaker 2: for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but he might be able
13:21
Speaker 2: to have one meal like a pasta, but then the
13:23
Speaker 2: other meals he'll have, like we have a low FOD
13:26
Speaker 2: that like bread here in Australia that's specifically made. It's
13:32
Speaker 2: low FOD map diet. So it's kind of like it
13:35
Speaker 2: was a really interesting experience that we learn more about
13:39
Speaker 2: the disease as well as to what could actually be
13:41
Speaker 2: managed for him, and we are so grateful that we
13:44
Speaker 2: avoided kind of another surgery and more kind of medical
13:47
Speaker 2: intervention and anxiety for him. And now we're at a
13:51
Speaker 2: point where it's really manageable. And you know, there's times
13:55
Speaker 2: where we just have a holiday season and we've had
13:58
Speaker 2: lots of you know, food that is high in you know,
14:04
Speaker 2: fat or high in you know, those kind of things,
14:07
Speaker 2: and we've kind of like, well, okay, we need to
14:09
Speaker 2: pull back and we need to get back on schedule.
14:11
Speaker 2: And that's okay. You know, we just we're learning as
14:13
Speaker 2: we're going. So but yeah, it's been it's been a journey.
14:19
Speaker 1: That that sounds absolutely fantastic and what a what a
14:23
Speaker 1: journey as well. There's a couple of things I pick
14:26
Speaker 1: up on what you said, one of which when you
14:29
Speaker 1: said I was searching and your husband was searching for stories.
14:34
Speaker 1: And I guess if i'd started this six years ago
14:37
Speaker 1: rather than one year ago, you might have found some stories.
14:42
Speaker 1: Which is kind of part of why I do this
14:44
Speaker 1: is to have almost envisage the situation that you were
14:49
Speaker 1: in seven years ago, and you're going, Okay, what what
14:52
Speaker 1: does life potentially because everyone's different potentially look like I
14:59
Speaker 1: think again, if I started six years ago, that might
15:01
Speaker 1: have been a bit more helpful.
15:02
Speaker 2: And I remember had a fine podka and it all
15:06
Speaker 2: being medical based, you know, or being really limited. And
15:12
Speaker 2: you know, I had stumbled across Steph little in terms
15:15
Speaker 2: of her Facebook page, and I engaged in that and
15:18
Speaker 2: connected with Steph and amazing that we were in the
15:21
Speaker 2: same state as well. So but besides that, it was
15:26
Speaker 2: really and you know, I was searching for books and
15:28
Speaker 2: there's one other children's book that is based on hersh
15:32
Speaker 2: Brunts and you know, we've got that Bork and you know,
15:36
Speaker 2: that was valuable at the time as well. But there
15:38
Speaker 2: was something within me that I was like I needed,
15:43
Speaker 2: I needed to relate more, and I wanted to provide
15:47
Speaker 2: that more to I guess the community, and I work
15:53
Speaker 2: with you know, my profession, I'm a social worker. I
15:55
Speaker 2: work with children. You know, this is my world in
15:58
Speaker 2: that sense. So I was really determined to kind of
16:05
Speaker 2: bring Oscar story to other people so that they could
16:08
Speaker 2: kind of feel comfort that they're not alone, and also
16:11
Speaker 2: to kind of feel like, you know, as hard as
16:14
Speaker 2: it was in the trenches of like we had those
16:18
Speaker 2: those thoughts of like, what's his life going to be like?
16:20
Speaker 2: What is what is this? Does it? What's going to
16:23
Speaker 2: be held for him in his childhood into his adult
16:26
Speaker 2: ears and really that unknown space and that feeling of
16:31
Speaker 2: fear to be honest as to you know, this is
16:33
Speaker 2: our firstborn and what's that going to look like? So
16:36
Speaker 2: I guess we wanted to I wanted to provide that
16:39
Speaker 2: story of being like of hope and that they can
16:43
Speaker 2: still do they can still do amazing things regardless of
16:48
Speaker 2: this disease. And it's yeah, trying to provide I guess
16:51
Speaker 2: a bit of empowerment as well for parents and children
16:53
Speaker 2: that you can do anything regardless if you have POSH
16:58
Speaker 2: runs you know.
16:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And and that's another reason why I really
17:02
Speaker 1: wanted to do ON because I think we come from
17:03
Speaker 1: a very similar background in that in that sense in
17:08
Speaker 1: terms of you're really trying to, you know, not tell
17:13
Speaker 1: people what life is going to be like, because we
17:15
Speaker 1: don't know and everyone's different, but to provide that, you know,
17:19
Speaker 1: if you are going through as you did, as a
17:21
Speaker 1: lot of Hirschbrung's mums and dads both went through, providing
17:26
Speaker 1: that sort of there is you know, a world of opportunities.
17:31
Speaker 1: You know, you go through the surgery obviously to pull
17:33
Speaker 1: throughs and all of that stuff, and whilst you're going
17:35
Speaker 1: through all of that stuff that you went through, having
17:39
Speaker 1: sort of something to look forward to, I guess, and
17:43
Speaker 1: to have that hope, I think is something that is
17:47
Speaker 1: really important. There was one other thing as well. I
17:50
Speaker 1: wanted to mention. You have said you were pregnant at
17:54
Speaker 1: the time when Moscow was going through a lot of surgeries.
17:59
Speaker 1: One thing that has fascinated me when doing this is
18:02
Speaker 1: genetics and sort of the possibility or probability of another
18:09
Speaker 1: child once you've had a child with hirshprung's, probability of
18:12
Speaker 1: then having another child with hirshprungs. For anybody who doesn't
18:16
Speaker 1: know my family history, I have an older brother you're
18:18
Speaker 1: older than me, who doesn't have hirshprungs. I do, and
18:21
Speaker 1: then I have two younger brothers that don't. So I
18:24
Speaker 1: was the lucky or unlucky one, whatever way you want
18:26
Speaker 1: to put it. Were you ever given sort of a
18:30
Speaker 1: possibility a percentage chance second time round?
18:35
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, that was Like as soon as we had
18:39
Speaker 2: fallen pregnant with our second it was the most thing
18:43
Speaker 2: that I probably thought about versus the pregnancy complications that
18:47
Speaker 2: I had with both the children, But it was absolutely
18:52
Speaker 2: spoken about quite a lot and told to us, and
18:56
Speaker 2: particularly there was a lot of strain towards us around, oh,
18:59
Speaker 2: if it's a boy, it's more likely than that the
19:03
Speaker 2: boy will get them if it's a girl. And I
19:05
Speaker 2: don't I don't know the stats in that, but that's
19:08
Speaker 2: what the medical professionals were telling us. And we had
19:11
Speaker 2: a girl. But I would say I was so hyper
19:16
Speaker 2: vigilant for that first twenty four hours post birth, is
19:20
Speaker 2: she going to do a preu like, what is it like?
19:23
Speaker 2: And at the time, because I had her in the
19:25
Speaker 2: peak of COVID, so she was born in February twenty
19:29
Speaker 2: twenty one. So our hospital system here in perse it
19:32
Speaker 2: went a little bit wild in the sense of like
19:34
Speaker 2: we weren't even sure if my husband was going to
19:36
Speaker 2: be able to be at the birth. Oscar wasn't able
19:38
Speaker 2: to come to the hospital. It was skeleton stuff. There
19:41
Speaker 2: was you know, no contact, et cetera. So you know,
19:44
Speaker 2: I'd had, you know, my second child needs and my
19:48
Speaker 2: husband had to go pretty quickly and then I'm here
19:50
Speaker 2: with you know, my second child, you know, no medical
19:53
Speaker 2: staff around because also very much second child. Oh you've
19:57
Speaker 2: got it, You're fine, you don't need much support, you know.
20:01
Speaker 2: And I'm waiting, waiting, and it got into like I
20:04
Speaker 2: was on the countdown, like and it got to twenty
20:06
Speaker 2: three hours and which she still hasn't pood. What's going on?
20:09
Speaker 2: And then I think it was probably about it was
20:11
Speaker 2: close twenty four hours. At that point, I was like,
20:13
Speaker 2: that's it. We're going to pH and I had remember
20:16
Speaker 2: saying to the medical staff all the nursing stuff. I
20:19
Speaker 2: was like, look, you may as well just transfers now,
20:21
Speaker 2: like it's been twenty four hours, she hasn't pood. Can
20:24
Speaker 2: you please just get the wheels in motion? Because in
20:26
Speaker 2: my mind, I'm like, okay, this is round two. Here
20:28
Speaker 2: we go. And I think it was around probably like
20:33
Speaker 2: twenty six hours around that, and I was like, oh
20:38
Speaker 2: my god, you know, I'm taking a photo. But Evidene said,
20:41
Speaker 2: you know, like this is it, you know, this is right,
20:44
Speaker 2: And then again my first thought was like, oh maybe
20:47
Speaker 2: that was just that was just will she do it again?
20:50
Speaker 2: And then thankfully she had, you know, and then she
20:54
Speaker 2: continued to do it and we were like okay, Okay,
20:56
Speaker 2: we're fine, We're fine. But it was that that anxiety
21:00
Speaker 2: leading up to it for the entire pregnancy and then
21:03
Speaker 2: post birth. It really it took over, to be honest,
21:07
Speaker 2: but having a having a different experience of that and yeah,
21:13
Speaker 2: it's just been Yeah, it consumes me for that time,
21:16
Speaker 2: to be honest, that definitely. So we were prepared for
21:22
Speaker 2: if it was, you know, like we were mentally like,
21:25
Speaker 2: you know, what, if it is, that's okay, and we
21:28
Speaker 2: take this journey and we we take it for what
21:31
Speaker 2: it is. We were not kind of wishing or hoping
21:33
Speaker 2: it was, just like it is, it will be what
21:35
Speaker 2: it will be, and very much trying to keep an
21:39
Speaker 2: open mind to that and having the experience with Oscar,
21:43
Speaker 2: we felt more equipped if we were going to go
21:46
Speaker 2: down that route again, I.
21:46
Speaker 1: Guess absolutely, And I don't think anybody will quite understand
21:53
Speaker 1: the thought apart from if you are a Hirshbroung's mother
21:57
Speaker 1: of waiting for your child to pooh, I don't think
21:59
Speaker 1: any I don't think anybody quite grasped that like a
22:03
Speaker 1: Hirshprung's mother does.
22:06
Speaker 2: You're very true, that's very right.
22:10
Speaker 1: So another point you brought up was was diet as well,
22:14
Speaker 1: and that I find really really interesting because, as I said,
22:18
Speaker 1: everybody's everybody's different when it comes to hirshprungs and the
22:23
Speaker 1: sort of trials of going through the fructo's and the
22:27
Speaker 1: gluepose and whatnot. I just found out that that was
22:31
Speaker 1: incredibly interesting. And then it was sort of because again
22:37
Speaker 1: there was another story. I had something on a few
22:40
Speaker 1: weeks ago who could only boiled potatoes, which again or
22:45
Speaker 1: just really really bland food. So was that more sort
22:48
Speaker 1: of a sort of trial and error in the end,
22:50
Speaker 1: or was that sort of a specific guidelines that you
22:53
Speaker 1: were given.
22:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the dietitian gave us very specific guidelines of
22:58
Speaker 2: kind of like, okay, breaks out a gluten. Okay, you've
23:01
Speaker 2: got to introduce half half a slice of bread for
23:05
Speaker 2: the first day, and then for two days do that,
23:08
Speaker 2: and then for the third day introduced two thirds of
23:11
Speaker 2: a slice, and then and introduced and at that point
23:14
Speaker 2: you weren't allowed to introduce any other of the lactose
23:18
Speaker 2: or fructose. So it was very specific and very guided
23:25
Speaker 2: in that sense. And so I guess my recommendation would
23:28
Speaker 2: be always to kind of be guided by a qualified dietitian.
23:33
Speaker 2: And now because we've done that process so extensively, we
23:37
Speaker 2: can kind of like tweak it and know what works
23:39
Speaker 2: to his body, because obviously somebody else's body can be different.
23:44
Speaker 2: And the other thing is we engaged with a physio
23:47
Speaker 2: as well, who kind of tortures different ways with different
23:52
Speaker 2: movements to kind of help his bowel movements or to
23:55
Speaker 2: help if he was you know, we'd kind of noticed
23:58
Speaker 2: if he was gassy and to do certain games or
24:01
Speaker 2: engage with him in a different light. For example, she
24:03
Speaker 2: would say, you know, clay again, you know, lay on
24:06
Speaker 2: your tummy and play a board game. Notice the difference
24:09
Speaker 2: what might happen. And we did, and it was like,
24:12
Speaker 2: oh wow, that's a really cool trick to know. You know,
24:16
Speaker 2: like if he's feeling like he's tummy saw or you know,
24:21
Speaker 2: he's feeling a bit gassy, we'll do that. And that
24:26
Speaker 2: was a really good tip. Or you know, there'd be
24:28
Speaker 2: certain movements or certain ways to do things. So we
24:32
Speaker 2: probably engage with the physio a little bit less than
24:34
Speaker 2: a dietitian, but it was still very valuable in that sense.
24:37
Speaker 2: And then they were both working really closely with his surgeon.
24:40
Speaker 2: They actually all worked at the same clinic. So it
24:45
Speaker 2: was a very helpful process that everybody was kind of
24:49
Speaker 2: communicating with each other and everybody you know, was on
24:52
Speaker 2: board and new oscars needs in that way.
24:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's fantastic, Always very very helpful when departments
25:01
Speaker 1: talk to each other, always, always incredibly helpful and when
25:06
Speaker 1: they do. Now, as we mentioned at the beginning, you
25:10
Speaker 1: are an author of Oscar the Unstoppable, selling worldwide, and
25:17
Speaker 1: we'll talk about how you can get it a bit
25:18
Speaker 1: later on. First of all, am I right in saying
25:23
Speaker 1: that this is the one and only book that you've written,
25:26
Speaker 1: never sort of written a book before.
25:29
Speaker 2: No, this is my first book and would probably very much.
25:33
Speaker 1: I love go out on a high.
25:35
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, so, yeah, it's my first book. I'm I'm
25:41
Speaker 2: very taken by children's books, you know, like when when
25:45
Speaker 2: I was pregnant with Oscar, and even when we're in
25:47
Speaker 2: hospital with Oscar, we would read to Oscar. You know,
25:50
Speaker 2: I would have a stack of children's books and on
25:53
Speaker 2: his little trolley under where he was sleeping, and we'd
25:56
Speaker 2: read to him every day. And our friends would would
26:01
Speaker 2: sent a lot of children's books in and I remember
26:04
Speaker 2: going into his surgery a friend had gifted us. You know,
26:07
Speaker 2: this beautiful book about bravery that I had read to
26:10
Speaker 2: him just before he was being wheeled into surgery. And
26:14
Speaker 2: he still has that book now. So yeah, children's books
26:18
Speaker 2: are very special and very important to me. So that's what.
26:21
Speaker 2: It just seemed like an easy Well I wouldn't say
26:26
Speaker 2: it definitely wasn't easy, but it was. It was something
26:30
Speaker 2: that I was like, I can do, Like I'm passionate
26:33
Speaker 2: about it, so I can do this.
26:36
Speaker 1: No, absolutely fantastic. And I and that there is a
26:40
Speaker 1: story of how how everything sort of came about on
26:43
Speaker 1: your Instagram page. Then I write again in saying that
26:48
Speaker 1: you were reading a lot of children's books to Oscar
26:51
Speaker 1: and then thought, right now I'll write one because there
26:55
Speaker 1: wasn't a book or certainly not one available about Hirshprungs.
26:59
Speaker 2: Yeah that's true. Yeah, like we we have so many books,
27:05
Speaker 2: and you know, through his first year, we were reading
27:08
Speaker 2: lots of different books, and I would go through the
27:11
Speaker 2: Internet and trying to find all, you know, different books
27:14
Speaker 2: around diversity or different books about you know, being different
27:18
Speaker 2: and still being capable, and there is nothing I can find.
27:24
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like I said, we have we have
27:25
Speaker 2: one children's book that I think was written by an
27:28
Speaker 2: American couple and we had that book and we were
27:34
Speaker 2: I feel like there needs to be something different here
27:36
Speaker 2: like this, Like I felt like an urge that I
27:39
Speaker 2: needed to do this for Oscar. And I remember studying
27:42
Speaker 2: out like, you know what, even if it's just for him,
27:45
Speaker 2: for him to see himself and in print and know
27:52
Speaker 2: that he is being seen and heard in that space,
27:55
Speaker 2: and that's goal achieved, you know, and if I can,
27:58
Speaker 2: if I can get it out to other families, and
28:01
Speaker 2: that's just a bonus, you know, that's incredible. I wanted
28:04
Speaker 2: him to feel a sense of belonging, a sense of like,
28:10
Speaker 2: you know, that he was a part of a children's book,
28:12
Speaker 2: you know, in that kind of world that he could
28:15
Speaker 2: kind of pick up a book and be like, oh,
28:16
Speaker 2: I can relate to this, you know, at any age.
28:20
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was a really big motivation for me
28:24
Speaker 2: to kind of write it for him to have that
28:26
Speaker 2: sense within himself.
28:27
Speaker 1: Fantastic. No, I love the entrepreneurial spirit of there isn't something,
28:33
Speaker 1: so stuff it, I'll do it myself, you know. I
28:36
Speaker 1: love that. I love that spirit I do. That's fantastic.
28:41
Speaker 1: And as we mentioned as well, I think you said
28:44
Speaker 1: previously that it it took you quite a while to
28:47
Speaker 1: write it get it into prints. How long roughly did
28:51
Speaker 1: that all take.
28:54
Speaker 2: It probably took about very aft three years potentially, So
29:01
Speaker 2: I think I started writing it in I was pregnant
29:04
Speaker 2: at the time. I think it was about twenty twenty.
29:08
Speaker 2: Towards the end of twenty twenty. I had just, you know,
29:12
Speaker 2: he was two at the time, so and this was when,
29:15
Speaker 2: you know, two years already's starting to engage more, starting
29:18
Speaker 2: to really enjoy two of them's books. And so I
29:21
Speaker 2: just opened a word document and I just started just
29:25
Speaker 2: started writing from what I knew as a parent, you know,
29:29
Speaker 2: and along that way. So it took about six months
29:32
Speaker 2: before I then started to like seriously explore an illustrator.
29:37
Speaker 2: And in my mind at that point, I really wanted
29:40
Speaker 2: to obviously keep it within Australia. I was really passionate
29:45
Speaker 2: around getting an editor who was able to read it
29:50
Speaker 2: in Australia to understand our language, understand our slang, or
29:53
Speaker 2: understand you know, just the context of Australia. And then
29:57
Speaker 2: I really wanted to engage in the illustrator who was
29:59
Speaker 2: Australian well, because I wanted to have or a B
30:02
Speaker 2: on the same time zone and be be able to
30:06
Speaker 2: kind of have that engagement in Australia and just support
30:14
Speaker 2: another professional who was trying to, you know, run their
30:19
Speaker 2: own business in Australia. And and I Marante is just
30:23
Speaker 2: who is the illustrator. It's just an incredible human being.
30:27
Speaker 2: And we work together for over a year and it
30:30
Speaker 2: was back and forth emails, it was dropbox, it was
30:33
Speaker 2: you know, pham calls, it was just it was a
30:36
Speaker 2: beautiful process with her, and she was so patient with me.
30:39
Speaker 2: I am a very detailed person, so it would be
30:42
Speaker 2: like the shade of red, can it be a little
30:45
Speaker 2: bit more of this, or you know, can you put
30:47
Speaker 2: an extra shoelace on, or you know, little She was
30:50
Speaker 2: just so accommodating and so incredible and as you can
30:54
Speaker 2: see from the book, it is just an incredible illustration.
30:58
Speaker 2: It is uncanny as to how much it looks like Oscar.
31:03
Speaker 2: All of our family members are like, wow, She's done
31:05
Speaker 2: such an incredible job to get it exactly like Oscar.
31:10
Speaker 2: And I also wanted to create an element of color
31:13
Speaker 2: but softness and to really incorporate There's lots of little
31:17
Speaker 2: things throughout the books that are really special to us
31:20
Speaker 2: as a family. So our dog is in the book,
31:24
Speaker 2: who's now passed, so we wanted to you know, at
31:27
Speaker 2: the time she hadn't passed, but so our dog's in
31:29
Speaker 2: the book. Oscar's Special Bunnies in the book. You know,
31:33
Speaker 2: I'd provided pictures to Morante of Oscar in that hospital,
31:37
Speaker 2: you know, the page where Oscar's in his hospital bed
31:40
Speaker 2: and myself and my husband Elliott looking over Oscar. That
31:44
Speaker 2: was she took. She illustrated that from the picture that
31:46
Speaker 2: I sent her. So a lot of the illustrations she
31:49
Speaker 2: did were images that I had sent from our experience
31:52
Speaker 2: in hospital or post you know, post hospital. So yeah,
31:59
Speaker 2: I just I'm forever grateful for her in creating this
32:02
Speaker 2: because it wouldn't be the book that it is if
32:04
Speaker 2: she didn't do those illustrations, to be honest, and yeah,
32:10
Speaker 2: she's just an incredible human being.
32:12
Speaker 1: Fantastic Well, just sounds like a great collaboration. It wouldn't
32:16
Speaker 1: be there without the illustrations, but it wouldn't be there
32:18
Speaker 1: without your words either, So it sounds it sounds like
32:21
Speaker 1: a fantastic collaboration. And speaking about sort of the person
32:26
Speaker 1: who the book is about, how does Oscar feel about
32:28
Speaker 1: the book.
32:29
Speaker 2: Oh, unsort. He thinks that it's pticularly you know, when
32:34
Speaker 2: we first kind of released it, he was very much like, oh,
32:39
Speaker 2: that's me. I've got my own book. And then there'd
32:42
Speaker 2: be times where he'd kind of feel a bit he
32:44
Speaker 2: was still kind of figuring out, like how much do
32:47
Speaker 2: I want to you know, show other people in my
32:50
Speaker 2: life about this book. So you know, there's been times
32:54
Speaker 2: where he's chosen to take it to school and share
32:57
Speaker 2: it and actually his spoor habit in a school library.
32:59
Speaker 2: I don't needed it to the school library and to
33:02
Speaker 2: all of our local libraries. They are also donated poppies.
33:06
Speaker 2: But he feels really empowered by it. He he loves
33:11
Speaker 2: seeing himself there. He also just loves other seeing other
33:16
Speaker 2: kids hold the book and feel like a connection with
33:20
Speaker 2: another child. We has hirsh Bruns on the other side
33:23
Speaker 2: of the world, and there's been lots of people who
33:26
Speaker 2: have messaged me, and you know, we've you know, Oscar
33:29
Speaker 2: and the other child have actually had video pools or
33:32
Speaker 2: have had you know, connecting in a special way that
33:36
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have had that connection if the book wasn't there.
33:40
Speaker 2: And I think that's what has what he loves most
33:43
Speaker 2: about it is that sense of belongnia, but that sense
33:45
Speaker 2: of connection with other children, with her sh frinds all
33:48
Speaker 2: over the world is what I think holds a special
33:52
Speaker 2: place in his heart. So, yeah, no, that's fantastic, That's brilliant.
33:57
Speaker 2: And you just spoke about the release of the book
33:59
Speaker 2: as well. It's sort of about a year and a
34:01
Speaker 2: half to do and you had a special release day
34:06
Speaker 2: or a special release date in mind. Would you like
34:10
Speaker 2: to talk about so when that was and why you
34:13
Speaker 2: chose that specific date. Yeah, absolutely, so we it was
34:21
Speaker 2: we were kind of at the time we were tying
34:23
Speaker 2: up the book, it was kind of January twenty twenty two,
34:26
Speaker 2: and in my mind, I'm okay, what do they think? Sorry,
34:29
Speaker 2: trying up the illustrations. So in my mind I was like, okay,
34:32
Speaker 2: what else we I need to do? And then I
34:34
Speaker 2: was kind of projecting the month's forward. Okay, I needed
34:36
Speaker 2: it edited, again, I needed formatted, etc. And again I
34:40
Speaker 2: was still really passionate about engaging the formatted within Australia,
34:43
Speaker 2: which engaged an incredible one. And so as the day
34:47
Speaker 2: got clost hold on, I want to release this book
34:51
Speaker 2: on oscar surgery Day. I want this to be a
34:54
Speaker 2: really momentous experience for us, you know, a personal experience
34:59
Speaker 2: for us to kind of shift. Okay, he had his
35:02
Speaker 2: surgery and that was the biggest life changing day for him,
35:06
Speaker 2: but how about we release it on the same day.
35:09
Speaker 2: So yes, it was released in April twenty twenty two,
35:14
Speaker 2: and COVID was a blessing it a sense, because it
35:17
Speaker 2: allowed a year for me and Maranty to kind of
35:20
Speaker 2: be going back and forth and to be working on
35:22
Speaker 2: this book. When in twenty twenty one, when you know,
35:26
Speaker 2: the world had kind of shut down, it was like, oh, well,
35:28
Speaker 2: we may as well just write a book. So it
35:32
Speaker 2: was I'm not sure if the book we've been released
35:35
Speaker 2: when it was if it wasn't the lockdown situation that
35:38
Speaker 2: we were in because we had a lot of time
35:40
Speaker 2: at home and a lot of time to review. So
35:46
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's been It will be nearly three years
35:48
Speaker 2: since the book has been released coming up, which has
35:54
Speaker 2: just flown by.
35:54
Speaker 1: To be honest, that was fantastic, And yeah, I have
35:58
Speaker 1: to remember it's twenty twenty five as well, but that's
36:01
Speaker 1: it's yeah, time has time has really flowed, really really flowed.
36:06
Speaker 1: But it was it was a quote as well that
36:09
Speaker 1: you wrote on your your Instagram when you're telling all
36:11
Speaker 1: about the story, that I loved that I'd loved you
36:15
Speaker 1: to expand and I'll share it as well that when
36:20
Speaker 1: you were you were packing up the books ready to descend,
36:23
Speaker 1: or whatever Oscar said to you, I quote from your Instagram,
36:28
Speaker 1: do all of these people love me? Which I thought
36:31
Speaker 1: was amazing. Yeah, just yeah, he'd be amazing.
36:36
Speaker 2: He he absolutely just loves the connection with other people.
36:43
Speaker 2: And you know, every time, you know, I go to
36:46
Speaker 2: particular envelope that let's send it in. So as soon
36:48
Speaker 2: as the envelopes out, who's brought my book? Where do
36:52
Speaker 2: they live, what's their name? How old are they? Like
36:55
Speaker 2: wanting to know everything. I'm okay, I don't know. You know,
37:01
Speaker 2: you know, all over the world and different ages. I
37:03
Speaker 2: have a lot of teachers who purchase the book because
37:05
Speaker 2: they want to share it with their students, or I
37:07
Speaker 2: have libraries who purchase a book, or I have a
37:10
Speaker 2: lot of medical professionals and they'll email and say, hey,
37:12
Speaker 2: I'm a surgeon in you know, Ohio, in America. I
37:17
Speaker 2: want to you know, I've purchased your book. I'm sharing
37:19
Speaker 2: it with my patients. So every single order that comes through,
37:24
Speaker 2: Oscar is aware of we let him, you know, I
37:27
Speaker 2: let him know who they are, and generally if I
37:30
Speaker 2: kind of know who they are, or let them know.
37:32
Speaker 2: And a really special experience that we're now able to
37:34
Speaker 2: do is Oscar. So if I'm sending the book from
37:37
Speaker 2: my website, Oscar handwrites the notes to the buyer, so
37:44
Speaker 2: he will, yeah, he will write a little blurb on
37:48
Speaker 2: the back of the flyer, thanking them. And sometimes he
37:52
Speaker 2: writes a novel. And sometimes he loves to choose the
37:56
Speaker 2: lollies that go in, like we send a little men
37:59
Speaker 2: there and he might sneak one and puts one in
38:03
Speaker 2: the envelope and then we often go to the post
38:05
Speaker 2: office together and post it. So it's a really special experience.
38:10
Speaker 2: If people are buying in Australia, then that hoping that
38:15
Speaker 2: they're buying from my website, so we can do that
38:18
Speaker 2: special experience for him. But in saying that, he just
38:24
Speaker 2: loves seeing from Instagram or from the Facebook groups that
38:28
Speaker 2: all the different people who reading the book or it
38:32
Speaker 2: will you know, is that baby reading my book or
38:36
Speaker 2: is that you know, teenager or you know whatever that
38:40
Speaker 2: looks like. So yeah, and because when we go to
38:46
Speaker 2: our local library. Often I will search the book and
38:49
Speaker 2: see if it's in or out or you know, And
38:53
Speaker 2: there was a time where I'd searched and reserved three times.
38:57
Speaker 2: I'm like, who's your preserving this book? Then high demard,
39:00
Speaker 2: It's probably it's my family and friends. But but yeah,
39:06
Speaker 2: it's it's just such a surreal experience. I think for
39:10
Speaker 2: all of us involved to be able to have this
39:15
Speaker 2: opportunity to share oscar story with the world.
39:18
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I on a slightly lower lower I think
39:22
Speaker 1: I do sort of understand where you're coming from. When
39:25
Speaker 1: I think, you know, who's listening to the podcast, it
39:27
Speaker 1: probably just is my mum and dad, But that kind
39:31
Speaker 1: of you, I think, where are they listening form? And
39:33
Speaker 1: all of this? That the other the question I probably
39:36
Speaker 1: should have asked a little bit earlier on. But with
39:41
Speaker 1: the book itself, I never talked a little bit about
39:44
Speaker 1: it's Oscar's story in his journey. If you were to
39:49
Speaker 1: sum up the book in sort of a few sentences,
39:53
Speaker 1: what would you what would you say if someone said
39:57
Speaker 1: to you or what's it all about?
39:59
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Palpable is about sharing what hirsh runs can
40:08
Speaker 2: be in a really child and simple terms, but also
40:13
Speaker 2: focusing on how a child with Hirschwung's disease can do anything.
40:18
Speaker 2: It's not going to stop them from playing basketball, or
40:22
Speaker 2: it's not going to stop them from reaching their goals.
40:24
Speaker 2: And I really wanted to write a book that was
40:26
Speaker 2: empowering for children with Kirshwrong's disease and their families and
40:29
Speaker 2: their siblings and their peers, and to normalize and to
40:33
Speaker 2: bring awareness to the disease and to really celebrate it
40:38
Speaker 2: as well, and to really show showcase it in a
40:44
Speaker 2: really positive light, and to bring cope to families and
40:48
Speaker 2: to children, and to be honest, for the children with
40:53
Speaker 2: Hirshrun's disease to feel seen and heard within a children's
40:58
Speaker 2: books collection. I guess in a sense of you know,
41:02
Speaker 2: often children will pick up books and be able to
41:05
Speaker 2: identify with that, and I think, because there is such
41:08
Speaker 2: limited books out there on Hirschbrun's disease, that this is
41:13
Speaker 2: a book that they can pick up and feel a
41:15
Speaker 2: connection to, and they can feel like they can relate
41:19
Speaker 2: to somebody and there's somebody else out there like me.
41:22
Speaker 2: And that's probably one of the biggest feedback I've got
41:24
Speaker 2: is that children are reading these books, reading this book
41:27
Speaker 2: and feeling like, oh wow, Oscar's like me, Oscar's my friend,
41:32
Speaker 2: or I've got scars like Oscar, or yeah, I like
41:35
Speaker 2: Tobay basketball and hirshbrings doesn't stop me from playing basketball.
41:41
Speaker 2: So it's really a book about connection and relation and
41:44
Speaker 2: empowerment and feeling seen and heard for them as little
41:49
Speaker 2: warriors of Hirschron's.
41:50
Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely fantastic, And that's a wonderful, wonderful sentiment
41:56
Speaker 1: that we'll conclude on, and just very quickly a couple
41:59
Speaker 1: of things just before we wrap up. Where can people
42:03
Speaker 1: find you and where can people buy the book from?
42:08
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, So if you're in Australia, I would recommend
42:12
Speaker 2: if you want to get a little note from Oscar
42:15
Speaker 2: that you book, that you purchase it from Oscar the
42:18
Speaker 2: Unstoppable dot Com. So unfortunately I need to ship within
42:22
Speaker 2: Australia just because of postage costs. The next recommendation for
42:27
Speaker 2: worldwide would be Amazon. So it's a print on demand service.
42:31
Speaker 2: So for example, if you're ordering in London or the UK,
42:35
Speaker 2: and it's actually printed in the UK and it's shipped
42:39
Speaker 2: to you from your local dispatching Amazon service, so it's
42:45
Speaker 2: actually a pretty a pretty quick turnaround. Obviously you don't
42:49
Speaker 2: get the little personalized note, which is completely fine. And
42:52
Speaker 2: that's the reason why I have it available worldwide, because
42:56
Speaker 2: it's not about an income or it's not about making
43:00
Speaker 2: money for us. It is about awareness and getting it
43:03
Speaker 2: out into the community and for children to feel seen
43:06
Speaker 2: and heard. So that's why we have it available on Amazon,
43:09
Speaker 2: so it's more accessible to the world, really, and that's
43:14
Speaker 2: what it's about for us. It's it's it's about a
43:17
Speaker 2: community and raising that awareness.
43:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And on Instagram, where can people follow you?
43:25
Speaker 2: Yes, so it is Oscar Underscore, the Sorry, Oscar Underscore,
43:33
Speaker 2: the Underscore, unstoppable and yeah, you'll see little Oscar's Morantes
43:40
Speaker 2: illustration in the little tile. You'll know that you've landed
43:45
Speaker 2: in the right space. So and please, anybody who is
43:49
Speaker 2: reading the book or sharing the book, I would love
43:53
Speaker 2: for you to contact me and you know, either in
43:56
Speaker 2: the DMS or flicking me an email from the website,
44:00
Speaker 2: because every single story that comes through to me, I
44:02
Speaker 2: share with Oscar and he feels so much more connected
44:06
Speaker 2: to the world and he is so excited to travel
44:09
Speaker 2: the world. And I think a big reason of that
44:12
Speaker 2: is because of those who are reading the book, and
44:14
Speaker 2: he's excited to see where all these people live and in,
44:19
Speaker 2: you know, be a globe trubber.
44:21
Speaker 1: Essentially fantastic. Well, thank you, thank you ever so much
44:27
Speaker 1: for everything that you do, and Oscar as well, and
44:30
Speaker 1: thank you so so much for joining me.
44:34
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Tom, I appreciate your time.
44:40
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the podcast. Find us on
44:43
Speaker 1: Instagram Tom's Underscore Hirshbrung's Underscore podcast. Listen to previous episodes
44:48
Speaker 1: on Spotify by searching Tom's Hirshbrung's podcast bost