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The Role of Journalism in a World That Needs Truth · Responsibly Different™

• 0:12
  Chris: Welcome to Fireside, a responsibly different podcast where we spark candid conversations about media investments and the strategies shaping the way we connect.
• 0:34
  Chris: Welcome back to Fireside.
• 0:36
  Chris: I'm Chris Marine, founder of Campfire Consulting, and I'm joined by my colleague and Campfire's head of strategy, david Gogel.
• 0:41
  Chris: I know I say this every time, but this conversation really is something special.
• 0:50
  Chris: It's about as close to the heart of what I do and the heartbeat of Campfire as anything we've talked about on this show.
• 0:53
  Chris: We're joined by Brian Yokono, a journalist with a career spanning two decades in broadcast news.
• 0:56
  Chris: He's currently an anchor at NewsCenter Maine, the NBC affiliate here in my home state, and he's worked in newsrooms from Cincinnati to Providence before returning to Maine and stepping into the anchor chair in 2022.
• 1:08
  Chris: I had the privilege of working alongside Brian early in my own career when I was at NewsCenter Maine.
• 1:13
  Chris: What I learned from him and from so many veteran journalists in that newsroom shaped not just how I think about media and storytelling, but how I move through the world.
• 1:21
  Chris: At Campfire, we talk a lot about service, and journalism at its best is just that service To truth, to community, to one another.
• 1:31
  Chris: Whether you lead a brand, work in media or just care about the role news plays in your life, this conversation, I promise you, is for you.
• 1:39
  Chris: So get comfortable around the fire and enjoy our conversation with my friend, my colleague, this Edward R Murrow award-winning journalist, brian Yokono.
• 1:49
  Chris: Well, brian, thanks for being with us.
• 1:55
  Chris: I think it's a beautiful sunny day in Maine A great place to start is.
• 2:00
  Chris: I would love to know, when you wake up in the morning and your curiosity starts spiking, how do you consume the news?
• 2:07
  Chris: There's so many different ways to get your information these days.
• 2:12
  Chris: What's your kind of morning?
• 2:13
  Brian: routine.
• 2:14
  Brian: I'm stuck, I think, between two generational worlds.
• 2:17
  Brian: I instinctively turn the television on because that's still where I like to consume my news, but I also do it with my phone in my hand and I'm scrolling through social media.
• 2:30
  Brian: And I'm scrolling through, you know, the news agency apps that I follow, that I trust, and recognizing that we have consumers who are just doing one of those or just doing the other.
• 2:41
  Brian: So I try to do both, to recognize where people are still seeing and getting that information.
• 2:49
  Brian: But I'm an old school TV guy, admittedly.
• 2:52
  Chris: Hey, you're kind of preaching to the choir here, yeah into my brain.
• 2:56
  Chris: I mean so, but when you're scanning the news it must be interesting, because you have served many homes.
• 3:01
  Chris: You've been across Maine.
• 3:04
  Chris: You're coming up on a 21-year anniversary in the news business, which is Wow.
• 3:08
  Chris: You're calling me out here, yes, but I mean you've served Mainers across the state.
• 3:13
  Chris: You've served Cincinnati, you've served Providence, rhode Island.
• 3:17
  Chris: When you are perusing the news, how much are you still connected to those communities?
• 3:21
  Chris: Because I know how much the weight of your service, how much you take that into account.
• 3:27
  Brian: Yeah, it's funny you say that.
• 3:29
  Brian: Actually I think I'm fairly well plugged in to what's going on in Providence because I spent almost nine years there, so that felt like home for a while.
• 3:38
  Brian: And then I periodically check in on Cincinnati just to see what big headlines are going, because it does.
• 3:44
  Brian: I think it becomes part of you when you're reporting on your neighbors and you're having such deep conversations with your colleagues about what matters to our consumers and the changes in their lives that we are covering in real time kind of documenting history.
• 3:59
  Brian: So those two locations are definitely part of my regular like okay, what's going on in Rhode Island?
• 4:05
  Brian: What's going on in Southern Ohio?
• 4:06
  Brian: Because it doesn't leave you.
• 4:08
  Brian: You care about the people that you serve and I'm glad you used that word because I think we see it that way and I certainly believe there are plenty of people who don't.
• 4:19
  Brian: But I think on the inside we really see it as a service to the people to connect them to information.
• 4:27
  Chris: And I mean it speaks to that word service, because when I were friends on all the socials, I see the people commenting and there are people that are still following you even though that you're in Portland Maine.
• 4:38
  Chris: I see people commenting from Providence, from Cincinnati.
• 4:41
  Chris: And this idea of community like what does community engagement look like for you today, especially in this digital age where it seems like sometimes we can be more disconnected than connected?
• 4:57
  Brian: Even though we're the multi-phone connected all the time.
• 5:00
  Brian: Yeah, yeah, a nice meal in front of the waterfront and it'll get tons of interaction.
• 5:24
  Brian: But I post a link to a story that I poured my heart and soul into and I interviewed people to get their like passionate story and it's just kind of like meh, and I do think it speaks to.
• 5:35
  Brian: People want that one-on-one connection, even if it is just on a digital platform.
• 5:41
  Brian: So, yeah, to me that community is like what are people sharing about their lives that matters to them?
• 5:46
  Brian: And then what am I doing to interact with that part?
• 5:51
  Chris: And I think that's interesting because I think folks that listen here know briefly about my story.
• 5:57
  Chris: But I had a very quick stint in the newsroom, not long enough, no.
• 6:02
  Chris: I mean it was brilliant and it really has been the foundation to everything that I pursue, moving forward from a lot that you taught me and others, particularly at NewsCenter Maine, taught me.
• 6:11
  Chris: But I mean, when I was there it was an interesting time and I think back because it was we were all just starting to figure out Facebook.
• 6:17
  Chris: It was 2009, 2010.
• 6:19
  Chris: Right, facebook was new and we were like it was almost an afterthought.
• 6:22
  Chris: I remember being trained like associate producer at the time, doing some MMJ work.
• 6:26
  Chris: It was like, yep, you're going to wrote, you're going to report, you're going to produce this thing for broadcast and then just get a quick thing on the website, like it was literally almost like an afterthought, like get on the website and then like quick link on social and everyone had access.
• 6:40
  Chris: But I mean today very different and I'd imagine that stretching the capacity of newsrooms, particularly as budgets and resources shrink.
• 6:48
  Chris: So I mean, how are you navigating, especially as an anchor, where you're more than just reporting, more than just facilitating a newsroom, but you're also a community figure where you have to be kind of omnipresent in other ways?
• 7:02
  Chris: How do you navigate that?
• 7:04
  Brian: That's a good word for it.
• 7:05
  Brian: I think we've transitioned as an industry that it's no longer and this isn't new.
• 7:12
  Brian: It's been years but it's no longer we're working on this for six o'clock tonight.
• 7:18
  Brian: We're working for this for, as soon as we have information confirmed, to getting it out to our consumers, whatever time of day that is, and so it's been a big shift, I think, for our industry to stop thinking about those appointment times, that people watch the news.
• 7:36
  Brian: People are consuming the news on their lunch break on their phone.
• 7:39
  Brian: They're not waiting for us to deliver it to them at 6 o'clock.
• 7:43
  Brian: They're not waiting for us to deliver it to them at six o'clock.
• 7:44
  Brian: So, yeah, I think it's created this world for both the consumer and the ones putting it together of there's that there is the urgency to let's get this out to people because they're looking for it right now, which does create it's.
• 7:58
  Brian: It's a different dynamic, because you do have to constantly be thinking of what's new about this story that we should be getting out, and not always just a whole new story.
• 8:08
  Brian: But okay, there's been a development in this story at 1 15 in the afternoon.
• 8:12
  Brian: Well, let's get it out to the people, um, on those platforms that we used to be, uh, kind of a second, an afterthought, as you said speaking of oh sorry, just speaking of platforms.
• 8:24
  David: It's funny, brian, we might be in the similar age range, because I also have the tv on, although I use, I like bopping around on the within the smart tv you have, you can go from, like you know, global news, you know national news and the local news, all within that one ecosystem.
• 8:41
  David: But then I also have I'm not like a scroller on websites, I have the news apps, and so I'm wondering if you and I both have that shared experience.
• 8:49
  David: Can you talk a little bit about what you guys are seeing kind of broad brush there, like, are you seeing more people doing that and how does how does this like kind of like app ecosystem and smart TV ecosystem change the way that you're thinking about the, the kind of the nature of the way a story needs to evolve, because you touched on this like stories have to evolve both in the app and on television.
• 9:09
  David: How do you guys think about that?
• 9:12
  Brian: I think a big, you know, the huge conversation right now is streaming platforms because, you know, all the data is there is that people are, as you said, on other platforms.
• 9:22
  Brian: They're not using rabbit ears or traditional cable as much People are, as you said, on other platforms.
• 9:26
  Brian: They're not using rabbit ears or traditional cable as much.
• 9:29
  Brian: So it is.
• 9:29
  Brian: You know how are we presenting that on, for example, newscenter Main Plus no-transcript.
• 9:58
  Brian: I don't know who this person is saying this.
• 9:59
  Brian: I don't know why they're saying this, but I saw it posted on a website so I believe it and I think we still battle that daily.
• 10:07
  Brian: Yeah, so to your point, I don't know that there's a huge number of people waking up in the morning clicking on the NBC News app to see what some national headlines are.
• 10:18
  Brian: They are instead perhaps scrolling through their other platforms and catching bits and pieces of it.
• 10:24
  Brian: So part of it is the education of still trying to get people to follow trusted sources.
• 10:34
  Chris: How do you build that in the newsroom setting?
• 10:37
  Chris: Because I know there's a lot of journalists that look up to you in the newsroom.
• 10:42
  Chris: So how do you build that responsibility of accuracy when you are stretched across?
• 10:47
  Chris: Broadcast, digital, now streaming.
• 10:52
  Brian: Yeah, you know it's a regular conversation.
• 10:56
  Brian: I will say and for me personally, I'll go back to that and I imagine we talked about this, chris, when we worked together previously but I'm a big believer in what do we know and how do we know it.
• 11:08
  Brian: And if we can't answer those two questions to every fact we have, then we shouldn't be using it, because any consumer should be able to say, well, why did you say that?
• 11:20
  Brian: Or what is this from?
• 11:21
  Brian: And we should be able to say, well, why did you use it, why did you say that?
• 11:23
  Brian: Or what is this from it.
• 11:24
  Brian: We should be able to say, well, state police said or, um, you know.
• 11:25
  Brian: So everything every day for me is what do we know and how do we know it?
• 11:28
  Brian: Um, and then the other part of that is you know, we're very fortunate to have such loyal consumers with NewsCenter Maine and the brand here for decades.
• 11:39
  Brian: Um, and that's built on trust, trust, and it can take a generation to build it and it can take one newscast to lose it for a consumer.
• 11:48
  Brian: So there's pressure every day to maintain that standard of you can't mess up.
• 11:55
  Brian: Messing up is not an option, with the caveat that we're all human and we have to allow ourselves to recognize that Um.
• 12:04
  Brian: But if we go in every day saying we can't mess up, that is the bar Um, then we work with that each day.
• 12:11
  Chris: And and what do you see if that trust is lost?
• 12:17
  Brian: Ooh, I mean for me, uh, this is going to sound dramatic, but for me it's heartbreaking.
• 12:20
  Brian: I mean for me this is going to sound dramatic, but for me it's heartbreaking.
• 12:22
  Brian: You know, there have been times through my career not just here where you know, as an anchor, I've had to go on the air and say, hey, we need to make a correction to something you saw here yesterday and explain what happened.
• 12:35
  Brian: And that hurts, because I know people are turning to us expecting the best and oftentimes I shouldn't say oftentimes, every time it was an innocent mistake, but it's very easy, I think, for when those moments happen to it to be well, it was done intentionally.
• 12:58
  Brian: Well, there was an agenda.
• 13:00
  Brian: No, it was a.
• 13:01
  Brian: It was a wrong word that was put into a script accidentally.
• 13:05
  Chris: it's usually that um, I think that idea of an agenda is a really important note to hit on because especially I mean we're reading about newspapers going away too quickly and there's also consolidations happening.
• 13:18
  Chris: It feels like broadcast channels are being traded like poker chips between news center main Maine is owned by Tegna large you guys have a big company, 70, 80 plus broadcast stations, many newspapers, but I mean that idea of an agenda I think is something important for people to understand.
• 13:37
  Chris: Are you feeling that in the newsroom Anything ladder down from Tegna?
• 13:43
  Brian: No, and it's so interesting that when I have conversations with people how quickly that phrase will come up Like oh well, you must be being told what to do, and it could not be farther from the truth.
• 13:56
  Brian: You know we're very forward.
• 13:59
  Brian: I can't speak for every ownership company, but for the stations I've worked for and the companies I've worked for, we've been very real belief in do what's right for your consumers.
• 14:11
  Brian: You know the people watching NewsCenter Maine in Portland, who was owned by the company that also has a station in Washington DC, are looking for different content, are looking for different content.
• 14:24
  Brian: So it just doesn't.
• 14:25
  Brian: It doesn't make sense to get that messaging down from the top that I think people believe happens.
• 14:28
  Brian: It really doesn't.
• 14:30
  Chris: Yeah, and I mean that's where I think media literacy needs to happen at a much younger age and all the way through, especially through the journey now, because I mean I have worked at some media companies where it was not Tegna but and it's public there.
• 14:44
  Chris: There's companies out there where that it does ladder down to what, yes, have to put in their newscast and that's that puts everyone at a disfair advantage, unfortunately, because then that makes everyone look at the market as like how, who do I trust?
• 15:00
  Brian: Right, and you know, if I know this person's doing that, what is it that the other one's doing?
• 15:08
  Chris: Yeah, it's a challenge.
• 15:08
  Chris: I can't.
• 15:09
  Chris: I always feel for like the weight that it puts on, because I know most people.
• 15:14
  Chris: Even in those cases in local newsrooms where that has happened, it takes a weight on those people because those are people that are part of the community that oftentimes don't want to, and they'll bury it Like they'll bury it as deep as they can.
• 15:30
  Brian: Right, so you can check the box saying, okay, we did it, yep, we put it in.
• 15:34
  Brian: I would say, you know, um, the exception to that is things that, uh, I'm not even thinking where I am right now, but past ownership groups would be okay.
• 15:48
  Brian: You have to do something for Black History Month.
• 15:50
  Brian: You have to do something, you know, like that's the kind of directive you're getting, as opposed to what it has to look like or what the message has to be.
• 15:58
  Brian: The message has to be, or it's more, that as a company, we're going to recognize this.
• 16:04
  Brian: We expect you to do something honoring that, for, however that looks in your community, um, that's the kind of top-down messaging that happens, as opposed to, uh, how that story needs to be told yeah, uh, when it comes to some of the new platforms that I mean I I still watch news center main, religiously.
• 16:25
  Chris: Add that to the ratings, um, but I I mean you can't get through a newscast without you know weather weenies, which is something that your, your meteorologist, does on the streaming channel exclusively.
• 16:38
  Chris: There's so many streaming shows popping up.
• 16:40
  Chris: Are you guys feeling anything from the business side for any content?
• 16:48
  Chris: Or a better way to put it is is that streaming platform turning into an area where you're seeing more of a blurred line between that church and state of a traditional newsroom?
• 16:58
  Chris: Because traditional newsrooms, oh yes, yeah, okay, yes, because I know from like the the planning side.
• 17:04
  Chris: It's unfortunate to have some of the conversations we have where it's like jeez them, they will sell the desk you are sitting at in some of those streaming not you particular, not taking up particularly right, but some media companies where it's like you would never touch that with a local broad, with like the news product itself right um, and yeah, I do think there's some blurring, and part of that is there are restrictions, I think, in terms of having an FCC license to have a broadcast station.
• 17:32
  Brian: There are some restrictions of where you're even legally allowed to blur those lines and there aren't those when you move to a stream.
• 17:41
  Brian: That's a whole kind of other ball of wax.
• 17:44
  Brian: So, you know, it opens up a lot of opportunity, but it also, for me, I'm kind of seeing the evolution of the streaming platform, of what happened when we started getting 24-7 cable.
• 17:55
  Brian: Okay, how are we going to fill this time?
• 18:06
  Brian: Now you, you just can't do it with all straight old school news.
• 18:07
  Brian: You need something else in there.
• 18:08
  Brian: Um, and that's where we got into, you know, opinion shows that have blurred the line of what's news and what's opinion, um, so I do think it's that of now you have this just vast space with opportunity to fill.
• 18:21
  Brian: And, and what does that look like?
• 18:23
  Brian: And I think everybody's still navigating that.
• 18:26
  Chris: Is that a play you think at trying to help reach younger audiences?
• 18:29
  Chris: Like, how are you in a newsroom setting?
• 18:32
  Chris: Is it?
• 18:34
  Chris: Is it?
• 18:34
  Chris: I mean I'd imagine it's a conversation but like, how do you reach across?
• 18:38
  Chris: Not just think about serving the community, but how do we also report on stories that matter to folks that might not be tuning in right now?
• 18:49
  Brian: Right, I think that is, and I think I mean it's definitely part of the conversation and that speaks.
• 18:56
  Brian: This is a whole other topic, but it speaks to the value of a variety of voices in the room.
• 19:01
  Brian: You know, if the room was full of 43-year-old Maine natives, we would probably have a skewed perspective of what we think people want to see.
• 19:12
  Brian: But thankfully we have people right out of school and people who are older than I am, and so we have those range of voices to say, okay, no, this is really valuable to this sector of our viewers.
• 19:23
  Brian: So, anyway, tangent there, but I do think there is part of that.
• 19:28
  Brian: How are we presenting ourselves to capture a new audience?
• 19:34
  Brian: Because I think the traditional broadcast TV audience it's no surprise is considered aging.
• 19:40
  Brian: That generation that would come home and watch the news is older and the younger generation never got into that.
• 19:50
  Chris: I mean, you actually touched on something.
• 19:51
  Chris: I think that's really important there, though, in understanding the media ecosystem, and particularly the news media ecosystem you mentioned you're a Maine native.
• 19:59
  Chris: What brought you back to maine?
• 20:02
  Chris: Because so many journalists I think it's important to know it's that idea before of, like the majority of journalists are actually like from the community that they're serving.
• 20:13
  Chris: What?
• 20:14
  Brian: brought you back.
• 20:15
  Brian: Um, I mean, this specific opportunity to come back was like the dream job.
• 20:21
  Brian: From early on I grew up washing Pat Callahan, who was my predecessor, and so when the phone rings and says, hey, would you be interested in coming back for this job?
• 20:33
  Brian: That you watched as a child, that helped shape kind of your vision of what a career could be.
• 20:39
  Brian: It was more or less a no-brainer.
• 20:42
  Brian: But my parents are still here.
• 20:45
  Brian: I love Maine and I've said it all along when I moved to Cincinnati when I was in Providence.
• 20:50
  Brian: Maine people are different and for me I mean that in a good way.
• 20:58
  David: Outsiders may say differently, but that's exactly.
• 21:01
  Brian: But for me it is a good way of we just have, um, you know, you strip down all the politics in the, in the uh, the strife.
• 21:09
  Brian: I think, like we're good people who want good things for other people, um, and there's just some that's just very unique that you don't see other places, uh, and I don't think I valued it until I had lived other places.
• 21:21
  Chris: And I mean what kind of toll does that take?
• 21:22
  Chris: I mean, my mind immediately goes to a very public story that happened the Lewiston shooting.
• 21:30
  Chris: That was a national story but that happened in your neck of the woods.
• 21:33
  Chris: You grew up in Turner, if I'm correct, right Leeds.
• 21:36
  Chris: I went to high school in Turner, so like, not very far from that, that was your community.
• 21:41
  Chris: I'm on a personal side.
• 21:43
  Chris: When you're reporting these stories and it is, I mean these are, these are areas you grew up around, you drove around, you probably hang out with your friends like what, oh yeah, what kind of toll does that take you?
• 21:55
  Brian: know, I think the lewiston shooting changed I won to speak for others.
• 21:59
  Brian: It changed me, it had a profound impact on me and I think, how I see life and see how fragile it is and it's almost embarrassing to say because for 20 years, as you said, I've talked about the good, the bad and the ugly of so many communities.
• 22:16
  Brian: But it's different when it happens in your home and you know I grew up going bowling, at that, at spare time, recreation, like.
• 22:25
  Brian: So there, there is that different connection of like, okay, I've stood within those walls, I've driven those streets, I know the neighborhoods they're searching I.
• 22:33
  Brian: So there was, yeah, it was very personal and I think Having a newsroom and a team that has so many people who are from Maine allowed us to connect even better with our consumers.
• 22:49
  Brian: During that, people were turning to us for information and we were, I hope, very relatable because we were experiencing it with them as opposed to trying to just give it.
• 23:01
  Brian: We were all going through it.
• 23:05
  Chris: Yeah, I can't imagine being in the newsroom in those situations.
• 23:09
  Chris: I remember vividly the weekend I was actually with you.
• 23:13
  Chris: It was a weekend when Gabby Giffords got shot.
• 23:16
  Chris: That was like a national story.
• 23:17
  Chris: But even when it's not local, I don't know the care that goes into the people that are genuinely doing journalism for the right reasons.
• 23:27
  Chris: It's like what's the local?
• 23:28
  Chris: How is this impacting locally?
• 23:32
  Chris: Even bringing those national stories down, and just the weight of when everyone's looking at those TVs getting the news.
• 23:37
  Chris: It's heavy, it is heavy and you don't want to mess it up.
• 23:41
  Brian: I couldn't do it.
• 23:42
  Brian: It's heavy.
• 23:42
  Brian: It is heavy and you don't want to mess it up.
• 23:43
  Chris: I couldn't do it.
• 23:44
  Chris: I couldn't do it.
• 23:44
  Chris: I mean, for me it was like even the local.
• 23:46
  Chris: I mean.
• 23:47
  Chris: I vividly remember my first story was a fire.
• 23:51
  Chris: It was someone's house, it was a fire and it was like very low stakes.
• 23:55
  Chris: It was a fire, but to me.
• 24:00
  Chris: I was like man, this is stuff that happens every day like I don't know to me, like that hit hard.
• 24:05
  Brian: Um, one of the best pieces of advice I got from, uh, one of our former photographers, harry harris.
• 24:10
  Brian: I worked with him closely for a number of years and, um, he, early on, had said to me never forget, most of the time you're talking to people on the worst day of their life, whatever it is.
• 24:23
  Brian: If it's that house fire, if it's a car accident, this is the worst moment they will probably go through and we are asking for a little window into that, for others to have some compassion and be aware of what's going on, and there's such a responsibility that comes with that that you can't abuse it.
• 24:42
  Brian: You can't abuse it, you can't take it lightly, but yeah, it can take a toll.
• 24:48
  Chris: I mean so that kind of answers where I was going with my next question, which was like people see the final product either through their social feed when they click on it and they read it or watch it, or they tune into that 5, 6, 11 newscast.
• 25:01
  Chris: There are still a lot of people that do what don't people realize though that goes into a day in the life, cause it is a fast day.
• 25:12
  Brian: Yeah, Um, you know, there's so much.
• 25:17
  Chris: I don't know where you start.
• 25:18
  Chris: That's an unfair question.
• 25:19
  Chris: Cause it is's.
• 25:21
  Brian: Yeah, you know, uh, I think probably the big, the biggest misnomer, um that I would say along those lines is the number of conversations that happen about how to best tell a story, and it goes a little bit to what we were just talking about.
• 25:37
  Brian: But, um, we were very thoughtful in the words we use, the tone we we use the video we chose to use.
• 25:46
  Brian: These are all intentional decisions that are made of being responsible journalists to the facts but also doing no harm, which to me, is the big banner over the work we do.
• 26:01
  Brian: We are in a position that could be harmful and it's our job to make sure we're not being harmful, um, and that takes thought, uh, so we'll often.
• 26:12
  Brian: So, you know, a day will be full of multiple conversations between, um, you know, myself, amanda hill, my co-anchor, our, our producers, um, our news, certainly, of how are we telling this story?
• 26:24
  Brian: Or, oh, now someone has a new piece of information.
• 26:28
  Brian: Does that change the way this story should be told?
• 26:31
  Brian: So, yes, lots and lots of dialogue go into, you know, a 90 second or two minute story that someone may watch at the end of the day.
• 26:41
  Chris: And you can feel that way.
• 26:42
  Chris: I know the lead story of your six o'clock last night was about that woman who lost her son in In Stoughton.
• 26:50
  Brian: County In Stoughton County Jail.
• 26:51
  Chris: Yeah, I mean how you guys covered that it was.
• 26:55
  Chris: That's something where a lot of good can come from that.
• 27:00
  Chris: I mean the mother was kind of sharing that story to be like, well, I want to see change, you know, from the inside, and by uncovering that story, I mean I think we can all hope that some good, can actually come from that that something will change for the positive there that, if not told, might just continue to be swept under the rug.
• 27:24
  Brian: Right, and I think that's the part where we try to take back, to kind of.
• 27:27
  Brian: You know we have a platform to help or hurt, and our goal every day is to help and sometimes it is just saying the facts.
• 27:36
  Brian: This happened X, y, z and there's not much more to it than that.
• 27:40
  Brian: But in the case, for example, of that story where Chris Costa sat down with this grieving mother, you know she opened up and you know we can only hope that that created dialogue for some families at home or members of law enforcement who saw it and said, oh well, let's see what really happened here of.
• 27:59
  Chris: You know, create create that dialogue and what I loved about that was because, like just initial thought going in and could be from that story well, we're going into a story about, like something that happened to someone in jail, like some people might say, well, they probably deserved it.
• 28:18
  Chris: But you unfold that story, which I think was very sensitive, in a really great way.
• 28:24
  Chris: That was covered, like, with what video footage was showed, how chris covered it, how you introed and came out of that too, like setting up the audience for what's to be told, what's going to happen, was really strong and it changed my mind of it, just made me think deeper about it.
• 28:40
  Brian: So, um, I'm glad and I, you know, I think we're hopeful.
• 28:43
  Brian: That's what happens most today's.
• 28:46
  Brian: Is that something resonates with people who are consuming it and, you know, maybe it's a call to action for someone, or maybe it's just recognizing that we're all people.
• 28:59
  Chris: I love that.
• 28:59
  Chris: My last kind of question here for you is, and you may have just answered it- I mean in an industry that's always scrutinized, always under an immense amount of pressure, like what keeps you continuing to wake up and remain curious.
• 29:19
  Brian: You know, I think a huge part of it is there are stories to be told.
• 29:24
  Brian: You know, we'll often say, you know, people make the joke like, oh, most of it is slow news day.
• 29:32
  Brian: There are so many stories to be told and sometimes they're not the big, profound, earth shattering stories.
• 29:40
  Brian: Sometimes they're just the story about people living life, doing something.
• 29:46
  Brian: Uh, and that's the curiosity for me of what are people doing, Cause we all have days that are one hundreds like so much has happened, I'm so busy, I'm so overwhelmed, and we offer days where it's like I'm so bored, Um, but in all of those there are great stories to be told about the people around us.
• 30:04
  Brian: Uh, and I think that's the, that's the curiosity of what are what's, what are those stories?
• 30:10
  Brian: And how do, how do we build a community around them?
• 30:13
  Chris: That's it, mobilizing community.
• 30:14
  Chris: I think it's such a platform for, for positive change in that way, yeah, we can hope, we can hope.
• 30:20
  Chris: Yeah, I think we'll.
• 30:22
  Chris: We'll leave it there for this time, brian, but just want to say like really appreciate you, I hope to pass along to everyone in the newsroom and anyone that's listening For our folks that are brand leaders to understand that their dollars have an impact in your newsroom.
• 30:34
  Chris: It is felt, it is seen by people by these stories that we're talking about.
• 30:38
  Chris: And for the everyday person that might be listening, not tied to marketing, and for the everyday person that might be listening, not tied to marketing, it might just be a regular news consumer, how you watch, how you click, how you consume news matters because there are geeks like us at Campfire that are watching on how people are consuming, and everything is a reflection of that.
• 30:58
  Chris: So I just appreciate you, sir.
• 31:02
  Brian: So thank you, it goes both ways to both of you.
• 31:04
  Brian: Thank you for having me.
• 31:07
  Chris: Thanks so much for joining us for this conversation with Brian Ucono.
• 31:10
  Chris: If there's one thing I hope you take from this episode, it's that journalism isn't just about headlines or ratings.
• 31:15
  Chris: It's about people, about showing up, being present and caring enough to ask the hard questions.
• 31:20
  Chris: Much like our hope for business, that same spirit of service is what drives us to Campfire, whether we're working with clients or speaking into the broader media ecosystem.
• 31:29
  Chris: We're here to support a healthier, more human connection between stories and the people they reach.
• 31:33
  Chris: If this conversation resonated with you, share it with someone who cares about the future of journalism or, better yet, your community.
• 31:40
  Chris: And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a positive review for us.
• 31:45
  Chris: It really helps folks find the show.
• 31:47
  Chris: Until next time, keep tending to the fire of positive change.