Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E 379: Why Adult Children React Instead of Respond | Emotional Sobriety with Meagan DeMatteo

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E 379: Why Adult Children React Instead of Respond | Emotional Sobriety with Meagan DeMatteo · Adult Child of Dysfunction

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hello everybody and welcome back.
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Today we have with us a guest that was just on two days ago, or a day ago, or it could've been yesterday.
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So it's Meaghan Dimattio, and we had such a good time talking, and we didn't get to finish half of what we wanted to talk about.
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So I wanted to bring her back and just go ahead, and we're gonna just continue on the conversation.
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So if you did not hear the last episode, please go back and listen to it.
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You will not be disappointed, and you will see why we had to continue the conversation.
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Welcome back, Meaghan.
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Hi, Tammy.
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It's so good to be back here and be with you again in conversation.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah.
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Oh, you're welcome.
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There were so many things I felt like we wanted to talk about.
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We didn't get into the ACA journey.
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We didn't get into talking about, emotional sobriety, and that was one of the topics that you mentioned it, and I really wanted to hit on that today specifically to start out our conversation, 'cause a lot of people hear
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that term and they're like, "What are you talking about?"
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So can you talk about that a little bit for the audience?
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Yes.
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I'm so glad that we're, that we are going here, 'cause that's what I titled my book.
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My book is called Emotionally Sober and Unimaginably Good.
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And when I had pitched the book, I wanted it to be called The Unimaginably Good Life and that term was meaningful to me because for me, when I embraced my recovery, I spent a long time thinking, "I don't
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need to be in recovery.
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I'm not the problem.
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I'm not the problem."
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And then one day I was like, "I think I might be the problem," and I w- embraced recovery.
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And one of the questions that I had to ask myself was, what if I could live a life that was- not just survival, survivable, but one that was unimaginably good.
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And that kind of became like my mantra.
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What if life could be so good that I have no frame of reference for it?
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That it's unimaginable to me because of the ways that I've learned to adapt in my past and the ways that I've learned to settle for a crappy existence in a lot of ways, not all the ways, but a
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lot of the ways, and it could be a lot better, and in order to do that, I had to learn how to become emotionally sober, and I had to learn how to take accountability for the ways that I
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had become reactive.
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If anybody's been to ACA, which is the 12-step program for adult children I'm not a representative of ACA.
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Nobody can really speak on behalf of it in a media capacity.
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But just from a, personal anecdotal experience of being in that program the One of the first things that you learn to understand about the ways that alcoholism and addiction influence you and shape you as a young human learning
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to develop and grow, is that we become reactors as opposed to actors.
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So when a, a healthy human is developing in a healthy environment, they learn to say, "I want this thing, and I'm going to create this thing, and I have full faith and confidence in my own abilities to do
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that, and I know that I'll be supported."
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In a home that is disrupted by alcoholism, addiction, other kinds of traumas, we're not actors.
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We're reacting to things around us.
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We're putting fires out.
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And so we develop these kind of superhuman strengths almost, these overworked muscles to react to things, to be on guard, to be prepared to fight for ourselves, to be prepared to advocate for ourselves, to be prepared to be
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disappointed and maybe we have defense mechanisms around protecting ourselves from that disappointment.
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And it starts to, over time, really warp the perspective that you have on the world.
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You don't learn that the world is a safe and reasonable place where if you want something, it's usually within your capabilities to have it and to create it, and people will love you no matter what.
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It's like the perspective of the world that we have is like I have to be prepared for anything, and I am prepared for anything.
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And so for me, it was this feeling of like I realized I'm drunk on my own emotions right now.
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The tiniest little inconvenience could just set me off on being prepared to fight for myself, being prepared to yell at somebody if I had to yell at somebody.
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Be prepared to research what I needed to research in order to go in there and find the thing.
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And these are strengths, of course.
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They are often skills and adaptations that are rewarded in, and sometimes even incentivized in the workplace.
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But they don't really lead to an unimaginably good life.
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They lead to a life that's very tightly controlled and rigid and scared and fearful and suspicious.
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Like I, I think I was just living in suspicion all the time of people around me.
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And and I had to learn to let that go and see the world through sober eyes that weren't affected by the lens of fear, so that's what the book means to me, and that's why it has the title
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Un- Emotionally Sober.
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Oh, I love that.
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And it is funny because I think about it, and I remember saying to somebody one time, "Wouldn't it be nice...
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Just think about this.
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Put yourself in this scenario.
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Wouldn't it be absolutely amazing if just one time somebody said something and you could actually stop, pause, and respond instead of just knee-jerk reaction?"
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Yes.
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Because that's how I feel, like these are just, when you're not- emotionally sober, you have these knee-jerk reactions, and they're all defense.
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They're all defense.
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Yeah.
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So anybody can say anything, and you're...
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It's like this wall goes up, and you're ready.
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You're ready to either put the wall up and keep the wall up, or you're ready to bust through the wall or whatever it is.
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But just to be able to and especially when you become a parent.
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That, I think, is one of the most critical times that you learn this skill, and you take part in learning this skill or getting the training or getting the help or whatever it is you need to be able
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to re- respond versus react.
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Because so often our children, ooh, they trigger us.
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And they're not- They're like little mirrors triggering us be- right?
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And they're not triggering us because they're doing anything wrong.
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They're triggering us because we're still back in the five-year-old body driving the bus, right?
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Yes.
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So talk about- Yeah some of the things that you did to help that, to get yourself- Yeah out of that.
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I love that you mentioned parenting.
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I'm not a parent yet.
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I would really like to be.
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But I remember the moment that I realized I have to parent myself, and up until that point, I had heard about inner child healing on the internet, right?
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It was, it- trending on TikTok for a while there, on Instagram, a lot of self-care, hashtag self-care stuff.
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Learning how to parent yourself again.
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What does that even really mean?
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It- it's really abstract, and but that's where I started.
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And I, and now I f- you know, talk to me when I become a parent of another human being, but I do feel like I learned some skills on how to parent myself that are applicable to other relationships,
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whether they're interpre- intrapersonal, like with myself, or I've learned that I've become less reactive of other, around other people and towards other people because I've learned how to nurture myself and take care of myself and parent myself the
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way that I want to.
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A little story about triggers.
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There's a, an anecdote in the book y- you talk about the inner child that's still in the driver's seat.
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I think I started to crumble and fall apart when I lived in New York.
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I lived in New York for five years, and I was under an immense amount of stress, and I, had a really bad breakup and it was like a, a bottom of sorts for me, an ACA bottom.
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And in the process of kind of rebuilding from that, I learned how to, like you said, notice my triggers, be aware of them.
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That was step one.
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Step one for me was like, oh, I'm having this reaction, and I couldn't necessarily stop it, but I was able to almost just go into this place of observer and watch myself have it and watch myself cope with
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all of my old bad coping mechanisms, whether it was, going to the bodega and buying a pack of cigarettes.
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I was like, "I know that I'm doing this because I'm having this really strong reaction against something that feels uncontrollable," and I know that's not the ideal thing that I want to be doing, but I was just watching
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it.
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Similar to, like, how you would watch a toddler, like, throwing a tantrum on the floor, and you're like, "Okay, this little creature lacks the skills that she needs to be able to articulate the problem and do something about
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it."
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And so I'm not gonna shame her.
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I'm not gonna throw her in time out.
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I'm not gonna, like- tell her she's a bad person.
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I'm not gonna add fuel to this fire.
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But I am gonna notice it and observe it, and then whenever she's regul- and h- maybe help her regulate it, and then when she's regulated, then we'll talk about different choices that she could make.
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I rem- and the triggers were, like, I was in such a depleted state at the, the triggers were, like, so innocuous and so silly.
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And s- and they brought up all this stuff that I wasn't even aware of m- that I had been upset about.
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So one time I was walking in Central Park, and this is what I t- talk about in the book.
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This woman I was So in New York, it's a constant struggle to get alone time.
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The city is packed.
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It's crowded.
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Anywhere you go in public there's just, there's few spaces where you can really just unwind.
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So I became very protective of places of, that felt like they were could, I could have some kind of privacy and some kind of res- quiet reflection.
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So every day I would go to the park, and I was walking around the park, and I had my headphones on, and I was giving off all the signals of "Don't talk to me."
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I had my head down.
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I had a hat on.
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I had sunglasses on.
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I had my headphones in.
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And this sweet woman came up and asked me for directions.
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And again, very innocuous, but in my mind, the narrative was like, "This is the only hour that I get this day for myself.
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Everybody needs some- something from me all the time, and th- I'm gonna take an hour to myself."
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And I was probably feeling guilty about it.
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All the emotions were activated.
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I was drunk on emotions.
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And so when this woman asked me for directions, I think I just sloughed her off.
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I wasn't rude towards her.
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I was like, "Oh, sorry, I don't know."
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And then I started walking really fast.
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But when I tell you, because I had started learning how to observe my triggers and observe my reactions, I watched this narrative play out in my head of this inner probably 12-year-old or something.
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And I'm telling you, it was like she had learned that I was a non-reactive person.
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I was learning how to not be reactive in the real world, but she also learned that she could express all of those things to me without me doing something dangerous, to make them go away.
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I could just hold them.
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I could just listen.
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So when I tell you my inner dialogue was like I cannot believe that woman would come up to me.
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Didn't she see that I had my headphones on?
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And doesn't she know that I'm a local?
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I'm not a tourist.
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I'm not trying to be social.
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I'm going on a walk.
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This is my neighborhood, and who is she here, crowding my neighborhood, and da.
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And really, when it came to it, the pervasive whine and the pervasive gripe that my inner child had was everybody always needs something from me.
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Everyone always needs something from me.
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And because that's how I felt in my core, I was having that experience everywhere that I went.
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Everywhere that I went, I was seeing evidence that people always need something from me.
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I can never get time alone.
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I'm always needed.
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And because I just watched myself whine in my, m- in my inner dialogue, I was able to finally change that narrative.
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And then I was like, let's get curious about this.
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Does everybody always need something from you all the time?
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No, that's not fundamentally true.
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It might feel like that's true, it's not fundamentally true.
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And I could actually learn how to engage with that part of myself.
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And I think a lot of your listeners are probably familiar with IFS and parts work, internal family systems.
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And what I started to do was- I would start journaling with those parts of myself.
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And so I would just, I would let them all come to the table, and I would let them all whi- mo- whine and gripe, and I would let them all complain.
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And I wouldn't feed into the reaction.
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I'm sorry.
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My neighbor's calling me.
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I wouldn't feed into their reaction.
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I wouldn't say, "Yeah, go tell that lady.
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She's terrible," go fight her."
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No, I wouldn't do that, and I wouldn't feed into the victim narrative either, and I wouldn't say, "You're right.
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Life is so hard.
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Everybody does need something from you all the time.
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You deserve...
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You know what you deserve?
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You deserve to go, buy a designer bag."
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I wouldn't, I w- I would just let the emotions exist without feeding into them.
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And I learned how to become the sober one that would say, "Okay, thank you for sharing that information."
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"But it's not actually true.
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Let's see what's actually true."
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So let me stop you right there.
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Let me stop you and let me ask.
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So if you didn't feed into it, you didn't get her, your inner whatever, your inner child, that part of you more angst by being like, "Oh yeah, you're right," and you didn't spoil...
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I don't wanna say spoil her- yeah but give her what, treat her ex- extravagantly just because and let her be the victim, what was your inner dialogue back?
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And let her have control, let her have control over my credit card, so what was your inner dialogue going back to her?
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'Cause that's gonna be very important for the listeners.
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Yeah.
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That is such a great question.
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I will say it's different every time.
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So in the book there are some some questions and some kind of prompts and scripts that you can use if it's not coming to you.
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But I think everyone has their own language.
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There was a period of time when my inner children would just I would just they would journal with symbols and colors and stuff, and scribbles.
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So it doesn't have...
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I wanna just say that.
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It doesn't have to be, there's not the perfect words that's gonna make everything okay, and if you follow this prescriptive path, it's gonna...
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it has to be, like, a, an individual relationship, just as it would with a real child in the world or a real friend, and that's what- Emotional sobriety is relational.
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It's not, if you follow a template then you're get a- gonna get a set of certain results.
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Emotional sobriety is the ability to be relational and be in the moment.
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So I will say it's different, but...
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And it's different every time.
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Different for every people, for- different for everyone and different every time.
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But I think in that case that was the core kind of wound for her, was everybody always needs something from me.
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Everyone always needs something from me.
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So then I think I just responded by saying something like, "Thank you for telling me."
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That's usually the first thing I always say.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for telling me.
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Thank you for telling me.
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And then there was the period of time that I like to call my pillow hugging period, because sometimes I would literally just hug a pillow and feel as though I was hugging that little inner six-year-old or inner eight-year-old
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who was crying to me, and that was deeply therapeutic And then she kinda started to realize that she could trust me and that I was just gonna be a safe space.
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So then that's when real kind of dialogue would start.
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And I think I could say to her, "Let's go out on...
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next time we go out on a walk, and let's just count how many people need something from us, and we'll just see."
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And we would go out, and it would be like, maybe we would pass 50 people on the walk, 'cause it's New York, it's crowded.
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So maybe we would pass 50 people, and wouldn't you know, 49 of them didn't need anything from me.
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And then it was like a game.
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And then it was like let's go out tomorrow and see."
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And if we passed 70 people on the walk wouldn't you know, only one person asked me for directions.
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And it's and you can...
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So then she starts to trust you, because it's something she can get her mind behind, something she can be actively involved in.
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And you're not punishing her, right?
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If I had immediately responded to myself "Megan, you're being unreasonable.
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You're just being unreasonable again.
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You're being dramatic.
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People don't always need something from you.
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That's stupid."
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If I had just immediately tried to be combative with myself I, I wouldn't have...
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I might have changed the behavior, but I wouldn't have changed the fundamental belief that lies beneath it.
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But because I could just immediately validate that feeling and say, "Thank you so much," "I'm so glad that I know that this is how I feel now," or how you feel to your inner child.
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Then you can say, once you gain their trust, you can say let's explore this idea, this belief that you have, and let's find out if it's true."
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And it can become like an adventure game together.
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So that's fun.
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And then sometimes, yeah, she just needs me to tell her, "I don't need anything from you," "i don't need anything from you.
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You can come to me exactly the way that you are, and I s- I'm...
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It's not gonna change how much I love you."
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And that's a very comforting thing to say to your inner children as well.
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Yes.
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It's And it's always good to find that evidence in a, like you said, in a playful way.
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So you're not c- coming back and being like, "Hey, you idiot.
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Look, 50 people just passed us and nobody needed anything, so get it out of your mind."
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Because you're right, at the end of the day, it's all about whatever part of you is not feeling safe, s- you have to get them.
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Safety is number one, and that is why these reactions that we have are so visceral.
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They're so violent and they're and we can't control them when they happen- Yeah at first because that is so deep into our subconscious that we're like, where did and half the time, I remember in the beginning, it was
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like, where the heck did that come from?
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But then when- Yeah you can do like you said and walk it back and find what gave you that belief, it's usually from when you were little.
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Whether it's five or 10 or 12, I always say when you are little, everything seems big.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Everything seems big.
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Love that.
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I love that.
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So as an adult, when you have these v- reactions that seem like you're overreacting for the actual, the punishment needs to fit the crime kind of thing, and I'm like, no, when you were little and something like that
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happens and you have that exact same feeling, it's huge.
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Yeah.
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It's so true.
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And I remember it- when I first got to New York I was so overstimulated and I think, triggered just from the amount of people all the time everywhere that needed things from me.
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'Cause I, I was one of those people that always felt responsible for other people, so it's A- and that's kinda what I love about New York is 'cause it...
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there's so many people there that it was finally overwhelming enough that it made me go, "You know what, Megan?
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It's time to let that belief go."
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'Cause there was a point in my life when maybe I thought I could be everything to everybody and serve other people, and be their hero, be their savior, be their people pleaser.
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But when I got to New York humbled me.
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It was like, "Nope, that's not even sta- statistically possible here.
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This city is just too big.
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You gotta let that belief go, otherwise you're not gonna be able to get out or leave your apartment, you're gonna be so overstimulated and overwhelmed."
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But I would have these weird reactions.
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I would do things like, if I was feeling, if I was feeling beat up like people wouldn't appreciate me enough, or people always needed things from me, or nobody saw me, the, the, the wounds.
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I would...
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It would come out in weird behaviors.
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I remember one time I told my therapist, I was like, "I think I was playing chicken with somebody on the street today."
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It was like they were walking towards me and I was walking towards them, and in my head I was like, "I'm not gonna be the first one to move.
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They're gonna be the first one to move," and then I think we clipped shoulders and I was like, "Oh, what, do they wanna fight me?"
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There was this inner voice in me that was like, "Go back and, hold your ground."
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And then, and then I would pass somebody who didn't leash their dog very well or didn't clean up after their dog or something, and it was like...
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Or no, a, a big one for me was, like, if somebody's dog the leash crossed my legs or something and I was afraid I was gonna trip.
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Then I, it was like, then I was like, "This person's terrible and I can't...
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Didn't they see me?
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Why would they let their dog cross in front of me?"
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And that is just...
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I was going through life looking for evidence that would validate this belief that I was the, I was personally victimized all the time from other people's actions.
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And that is just a symptom of living a life where you do feel...
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Because as a child, like you said, everything is big when you're a child.
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When you're a child you are the victim of people's actions because you don't have any agency.
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But as an adult you have agency.
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And so I ha- finally had to say to myself, "You know what, Megan?
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You just really can't go around feeling like, letting the neighbor who's walking their dog just ruin your whole day," that is just- Not that the emotional drunkenness of that life is just, it warps your perspective, 'cause it, it
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validates the old belief that you have no control when in fact we actually do have a lot more agency and control than we feel.
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And I love that you said that because we always say, people are like, "Awareness is everything."
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And I'm like, "Awareness is the first step, without a doubt."
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Yeah.
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But once you become aware, now it's your responsibility to change how you start looking at things.
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And you have a choice every day.
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Every day, every situation, you can get angry, you can be happy.
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You can look at the positive, you can look at the negative.
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And yeah, sometimes you might have to do a little negotiating with yourself to do that.
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But you do have agency and you do have a choice.
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And talk about how, what were the things that you went through to make yourself, I don't wanna say make yourself, but get yourself steered in the right direction of starting to make those more positive choices, and looking for
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evidence that your inner dialogue was not always correct?
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Yeah.
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I do...
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Okay, wait, can you ask the question one more time?
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So basically you're having these thoughts and you're, you know in your mind you're reacting to the feeling that everybody always needs something from me.
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What is the thought process you went through?
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Like, how did you change?
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Like, how did you start making those shifts to- Yeah to not necessarily doing the 50, I know you did the 50, let's count 50 people, and the games and stuff like that, but just on a regular basis so
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that in the moment, because I think that's where people really struggle.
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They know, they know logically what they should do, and they know logically that it's ridiculous, and they've already sh- found the evidence for the fact that this is not true.
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And but in the moment is- when they're going to make those knee-jerk reactions.
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How did you start kinda s- halting that a little bit?
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That is such a great question.
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If it's not already obvious, I'm a big tracker.
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I actually, and this is why the whole re-parenting thing I took it literally.
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I was like...
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and I also should say, I at one point in my past lives taught kindergarten for a few years.
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So all those tools that I used with kindergarten students, they applied to adults who are in recovery and trying to change their behaviors, because kindergarten is all about socialization and behavior and it's the first time that metacognition really
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comes online for kids, and so it's h- teaching them how to think about their thinking.
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So I used a lot of the same strategies.
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I tracked, I would say to myself so awareness is the first step, right?
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So I would say, "Okay I've been observing myself for a little while and I know that I get really triggered around these things, so let me try to incentivize some new behaviors."
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And I literally got a chore chart from Etsy.
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I found a really nice one.
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It's like- You're so cute.
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I am.
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I'm a kindergarten teacher.
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That, I should've been a kindergarten teacher in my for the, in, in a parallel life I am one, so yeah, like I literally got a chore chart, and I literally would give myself stickers and I'd be like, "If
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I do, if I respond favorably in, in a situation that would otherwise be triggering," like I would give myself a sticker.
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Or if I let me see if I can get out of the house and do a walk in the morning before I check my email or something.
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And if I did that, I would give myself a sticker, and I would see how many days I could do it in a row.
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Just to sh- just to kinda show myself that I have con- I have agency.
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I have control over the choices that I make.
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Now th- are you gonna be perfect?
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No, you certainly cannot expect perfection with your- from yourself.
23:08
And that is where having the tools to s- to self-regulate come in really handy.
23:12
Like one thing that is just really- helpful and practical is just naming it.
23:19
Like a lot of adult children are so divorced from the emotions that we feel, and then that adds to the emotional drunkenness, right?
23:27
Is that we have an emotion and then we try to suppress the emotion 'cause it was always unsafe for us to have the emotion in the past.
23:33
And then we c- don't even know how to name it because it's so squashed down that it starts ruling all of our, you know, and then we, but then we're s- subconsciously reacting to it, so it's ruling all
23:43
of our decision-making.
23:45
So I think just naming it can be really helpful and realizing that the, the walls aren't gonna come crumbling down.
23:52
Hopefully listeners have some relationships with people in their life where they can do that safely.
23:57
You might act unfavorably at a dinner or something with a friend, and then you can reflect on it and say, "Oh, I'm so sorry.
24:07
I shouldn't have said that," or, "You know what?
24:08
That insult just flew out of my mouth.
24:11
I didn't mean that.
24:12
That was sarcastic, and I'm sorry.
24:14
I was feeling protective of you," or, "I was feeling protective of myself," or I think just being able to name it "I bought this pack of cigarettes because I was stressed and I was feeling stressed."
24:24
Just being able to say "I am feeling stressed right now in my body"- can be extremely powerful.
24:32
And being able to name where you feel it.
24:35
I'm putting my hands on my chest.
24:37
I feel, I always feel it right here in my chest and in my throat.
24:40
Some people clench their fists.
24:42
Some people, they feel it in their shoulders.
24:44
Shoulders go up.
24:45
Yeah, I was gonna say, the shoulders go up or sometimes you get that pit in your stom- it's a million different ways, and it's...
24:51
I love that you said that.
24:52
That is so important to name, to know where you're feeling it in your body- because that's where you're holding it.
24:58
That's- Yeah and I do a lot of energy work with just breathing into that spot and literally bringing that energy to that exact spot that you're feeling the tension, the stress, the whatever it is and sitting with it
25:12
and knowing that any emotion is going to, if you, unless you keep provoking it, it's going to pass in less than 90 seconds.
25:19
90 seconds or less.
25:21
I love that, that fact.
25:23
That is such a comforting fact.
25:25
And I remember even one time I...
25:27
This is something I tell myself a lot.
25:28
Emotions won't kill me.
25:30
Emotions are- not ever gonna hurt you.
25:33
The ways that I react to them can, and have, and certainly have put me in danger before.
25:39
But the emotion itself is just it's like a wave, and so if you can s- if you can learn to sit with it and then say it, naming it out loud, almost like you're watching clouds pass by or
25:49
if you like to go swimming in the ocean, like you're, you can feel the wave pick you up, and then you can feel the wave put you back down, and your to- your toes touch the sand again.
25:58
It's- It's like that.
26:00
And then if you...
26:01
So first feeling it, and then naming where you feel it in your body, and then if you can name it, developing a vocabulary for your emotions.
26:10
And then conversationally being able to say it to friends and trusted loved ones.
26:15
That's where meetings come in really handy because you have, three, two or three-minute shares, and you can just say, "Today I w- woke up feeling really ashamed of things that I had done in the past, and I noticed
26:28
that shame in my chest.
26:30
And then I went to the coffee shop, and I was embarrassed because I forgot my wallet, and I felt foolish.
26:39
And then I went back and got my wallet, and I was proud that I had put it somewhere, that I would remember."
26:45
And so it's like suddenly we're naming all the things, like shame, embarrassment, pride ha- and then I was happy that I saw my friend.
26:52
Just being able to narrate three minutes of your day can be extremely powerful.
26:58
And the great thing about meetings is that you're not getting feedback.
27:01
No one's workshopping you.
27:02
No one's trying to argue with you.
27:04
Nobody's saying "Why did you feel that way?"
27:07
Or, "Oh, don't feel bad."
27:09
It's like you're just allowed to say, "I feel bad," and- and be witnessed in that.
27:13
And it's funny with ACA meetings, I notice I get just as mu- I have s- clients that come to me, and they're like, "I just wanna share what I shared in the ACA meeting because I wanted some feedback."
27:25
Some people want that, it is a non-judgmental, and you do.
27:28
You talk for two or three minutes, and you tell your story, and then they're like, "Thank you for your share."
27:33
And I've had people come to me and go, "I wanted them to say something or give me some input or d-" and I'm like that's what the, the groups on the side are for," that's what your, your- Yeah,
27:43
and fellowship your group coaching or whatever you do.
27:45
But- Yeah I ha- it's f- it is funny that many of my people that I talk to, we start our visit with- Okay, what happened in your meeting that you weren't able to finish?
27:58
Yeah.
27:59
So but it is- Yeah it's a different...
28:01
It's flipping it around.
28:02
It's a different perspective because as an ACA, you also want to know that you were seen and heard and validated, and you don't know what's on the other side of those thinking.
28:13
So it goes- Yeah both ways.
28:15
But I agree with you.
28:16
It's just nice to be able to say it out loud because- Yeah there's...
28:22
it's more powerful to say it out loud or put it on a piece of paper to get it physically out of your body than to just think it, and they've proven that.
28:30
Yeah.
28:30
Yes.
28:30
Affirmations, if you say them out loud, are more...
28:34
They raise your dopamine higher than if you just think them.
28:38
Because you're keeping it in your body, and I think that goes- Yeah back to the mind-body, that whole- Connection the whole mind-body connection.
28:46
Yeah, absolutely.
28:48
So- 'Cause you're building a neural pathway every time you either take an action or say something or, or it's like you're building a memory and a neural pathway and, you're linking a thought to your voice and to your
29:00
mouth.
29:00
It's like the motor, all of the, the motor functions are on and working together.
29:05
And- Yep we're deeply somatic, and we're deeply social.
29:08
Yes.
29:09
So I think people just honoring that.
29:11
It...
29:11
we're so somat- So the more you can get into your body and then the more you can be witnessed that's how we exist as humans.
29:19
Oh, yeah.
29:19
And yeah.
29:21
Yeah, and I love that you said that with the neural pathways because I was picturing that when you were talking about the 50 things and the evidence, showing yourself that this is n- actually not true because you're building
29:33
a new pathway to believe something different.
29:36
And eventually anything, people are always like this is just the way I am.
29:40
That's how I was raised.
29:41
That's how I was taught.
29:42
That's what I believe now."
29:43
Anything that you can believe right now can be changed.
29:48
Yeah.
29:48
You can change that, and it's just by going with your theories of think something different.
29:53
If you think something different, eventually enough your brain is going to be wired that way to look for that, and that is one of the things, that is one of my biggest tips with people that are adult children
30:08
of any kind of dysfunction that are wired to look for the positive, is when something bad happens, let's say you stub your toe.
30:16
Let's just take that, right?
30:17
You stub your toe, and you're thinking, "Oh, my God.
30:19
That hurt so bad.
30:20
That's terrible.
30:20
Blah, blah, blah."
30:23
That's okay though.
30:24
I didn't break my toe.
30:26
Yeah.
30:26
I stubbed my toe.
30:27
I could have broken my toe, and I didn't, so I'm happy.
30:31
And I know it's- so hard to think like that, but if you always find the good in something, eventually your brain will be wired to look for the good.
30:40
I use the example of my husband and I in the car.
30:42
He has the worst road rage in the world, and it just drives- me crazy.
30:46
And I remember one time- Road rage people crack me up.
30:48
They crack me up because they're not o- they're often not angry in real life, but then it's like they all, they channel it in the car.
30:54
That's where they allow it to come out.
30:56
Yeah, and it's crazy.
30:58
And one time I remember this car like, foom, cut us off, and my husband's, "Bah bah," saying all the words and sh- throwing all the gestures and all that stuff.
31:05
And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, I'm so glad I'm not in such a hurry that I have to cut people off in traffic."
31:12
And I had a smile on my face, and I know, I just kn- I could feel- like him staring through my soul like, "Why are you so happy right now?"
31:21
But it takes a long time to do that, but I tell you, wow, what a difference when you just everything.
31:28
You can practice it.
31:29
Everything that happens.
31:30
You drop something on the ground.
31:32
Wow, I'm glad it didn't break.
31:34
Just flip the b- flip the story.
31:37
I m- I've been doing- Did you- NLP for many years.
31:39
Go ahead.
31:40
I was gonna ask, did you read the part in the book about my breaking my foot?
31:45
No.
31:46
Okay.
31:47
'Cause I was like, "You did your homework before this call," 'cause I actually talked about that.
31:50
So when I started embracing this whole th- in the book I talk about the first step is seeking expanding evidence, and then making the subconscious conscience, like conscious and realizing the thoughts that you have.
32:02
And I kinda talk about how I started that whole process.
32:04
And then I was like, "And then I got, I got the opportunity to...
32:07
I got the final exam.
32:08
I got the opportunity to put this all into practice," because very shortly after I started tracking all of my behavior and, putting myself on a better path and I was a good little student about it.
32:19
I was putting, giving myself my stickers.
32:21
I fell and broke my foot, and it was the most random accident ever.
32:25
It was because I, my foot had fallen asleep and I didn't realize that it was asleep, and then I tried to walk on it and w- and it didn't work.
32:31
It didn't function, and I broke my foot.
32:34
And I was like, "Oh, are you kidding me?"
32:37
And I kinda challenged myself.
32:39
I was like let's just see if I can still find expanding evidence."
32:43
If I can still go out in the world and look for possibilities as opposed to use this as a reason to just give up on everything.
32:49
And I will say in my life I finally...
32:51
I had quit my job fairly recent, fairly fairly close to that time.
32:55
And so f- finally the stakes were high enough that I had to.
33:00
I couldn't not I couldn't crumble because I had made this decision to quit my job and go freelance full time and become self-employed.
33:08
And it was a motivator because I was like, I can't give up here.
33:11
I have to continue practicing what I preach, and I have to continue challenging myself to see possibilities everywhere that I go."
33:19
And when I tell you I had the best time.
33:21
I went to the airport, and it was like, as soon as my...
33:25
I was, my- I actually laugh with my mom about this story 'cause my mom and I, we have we share a sense of humor.
33:30
It's the one, one of the ways that we stay in touch as adults.
33:33
We don't m- we're not fully estranged, and we we still talk occasionally.
33:38
And I really love that my mom and I share a similar sense of humor because we're both equally as dramatic and and like theatrical in our imaginations.
33:46
And so I'd go to the airport.
33:47
My f- I get out.
33:49
I have this boot on my foot, and the, as soon as my boot hit the sidewalk, I'm telling you, these people, the attendants, they all went, "She's got a boot.
33:58
She's got a boot."
33:59
And they just surrounded me, and they put me in a wheelchair.
34:02
And I had somebody escorting me to the gate, and I had somebody push- getting me through security faster than everybody.
34:08
And it was like I felt like I was in a five-star hotel.
34:12
It was just every- everything I needed was taken care of.
34:15
And I always say Did I get that treatment only because I had decided to have a positive attitude that morning?
34:22
No.
34:22
There are lots of factors at play that are outside of my control.
34:25
I don't think people should try to, only expect life to be perfect all the time.
34:30
But I will say had I been in a different mindset, had I been in a state of mind where I was looking for all of the ways that people were wronging me and I had showed up to the
34:40
airport combative and skeptical and afraid, then I might have refused their help.
34:46
I might have said "What are you doing?
34:48
Don't touch my bag."
34:49
"I got this.
34:49
I got it."
34:50
Or they...
34:50
Or honestly, they might just not have even been drawn to help you.
34:57
That's true.
34:57
Because I, My biggest thing in this right now, my biggest message to people is the energy that you put into the world is the energy that you get back out of the world, and that is why the positive
35:08
and the flipping things in your mind, no matter what, it- Yeah because you're putting positive frequencies out into the world, and you're gonna get back more of that.
35:16
So if you're looking at evidence of things going wrong, the universe is gonna give you more things to go wrong.
35:23
If you're looking at evidence of everything being okay, the universe is going to give you more evidence of everything being okay, and I truly believe that 100%.
35:32
Me too.
35:33
I love it.
35:34
The universe is "Oh, that's how you see it?
35:36
You want more of that?
35:37
That's how you see it?
35:37
You want more of that?
35:39
Oh, that's how you see it?
35:40
You see the world as a helpful, benign place that assists you, at your every waking need?
35:44
Oh, great.
35:44
Here's more of evidence of that.
35:46
Here's more evidence of that."
35:47
Yeah.
35:47
And it's just it's...
35:48
Life has just become this game of how long can I surf that?
35:51
Like, how long can I just s- milk that feel-good?
35:53
And and that's not to say that I don't have sad days and I don't have emotions.
35:58
Of course I do.
35:59
Of course I do.
36:01
I'm just not- I'm just not getting high on my emotions.
36:05
I'm just not letting my emotions activate, my cortisol levels to the point where I'm ready to fight people and I'm ready to, And I'm c- creating these narratives in my head that it just create rifts, that, that seep
36:16
into all of my relationships, when I, when there's...
36:18
Go ahead.
36:19
No, go ahead.
36:20
No, I was just gonna say, you're not letting your emotions control you.
36:23
They're not running your life.
36:24
They're not writing the story.
36:26
You're having them.
36:27
You're regulating.
36:28
You're acknowledging them.
36:29
You're going through them, and then you're regulating, and you're coming back to square one.
36:34
And your base level is now at a one or a two, where I'm sure if I asked you, I don't know how many years ago, "What's your base level of stress on a daily basis?"
36:44
It's gonna be seven to nine.
36:46
That seems to be, of the 300 people I asked- Wow I would say 80% of them said seven to nine.
36:53
Wow.
36:55
Seven to nine- On a base level.
36:55
That's- And I have no idea.
36:57
It's seven to nine, and I couldn't e- I'm shocked at that fact because I thought that was normal, yeah, and everybody's walking around and you just say, "When you woke up, how stressed were you?"
37:05
And they're like, "Seven.
37:06
About a seven.
37:07
About an eight."
37:08
Yeah.
37:08
I'm like, oh my God, and you haven't even gone into the day yet.
37:11
I'm like- Yeah so how about wake up and put Louise Hay on?
37:14
Because if nothing else- Yes.
37:18
Yeah, I love a good, I love a good Abraham-Hicks, like- Yeah, just- put it on for five minutes and just make yourself wake up in the morning, look around the room, and find five things that'll make you grateful
37:27
or thankful or just not negative.
37:30
People wake up- Yeah and the first thing they do is check their bank accounts on their phone.
37:34
I'm like, stop.
37:35
Don't do that.
37:36
That sets the tone for the entire day.
37:37
That is the frequency that you are now going out with.
37:41
Yeah.
37:41
And it's interesting too, 'cause a- as we're talking, I'm making a connection.
37:44
I'm like, oh, those helpful attendants who wheeled me and escorted me to my gate- It's like my- I see my emotions that way, they come to me with information.
37:54
They're pissed off about something.
37:55
Oh, forgive me, am I allowed to say that on, on here?
37:58
You can say whatever you want.
37:59
Okay, yeah.
38:00
They're pissed off about something.
38:01
They're, in disdain.
38:03
I have this one inner child, and I just call her Sarah Saboteur, and she just wants to sabotage everything that I do because, "How can I go on?
38:10
Life is just so terrible," and how the...
38:13
she's, she just cannot...
38:17
The injustice of the world is so grave to her, and she just- she weeps at it all, and it's like these, these are my emotions, and they're- and I experience them, but I see them like those messenger- or
38:28
not those messengers.
38:29
I see them like those attendees at the airport.
38:31
I see them like they're here to tell me information that I need.
38:34
They're here to guide me in the direction that I need to go.
38:37
They're like my loyal my loyal posse, what would I do without them?
38:42
But the- but even they are here to help me because I have decided that I'm somebody who is going to have a favorable life and who's going to be pointed towards solutions.
38:52
And so when I have a- an intense emotion now, I'm like, "Thank you.
38:55
This is information that I need as I steer my ship towards the solution that is gonna benefit us all," amen.
39:02
So when...
39:02
Is your book already out?
39:04
It comes out in a week.
39:06
Oh, okay.
39:07
So this'll be- Yeah airing after it actually comes out.
39:10
But we will do- I'll do an email before, on launch day if you want, and send out to my people, and then preemptively get them ready for the la- for the episode coming out.
39:19
That would be super fun.
39:20
Tell people, Megan, tell people if they wanna work with you what you do now in this capacity, and where they can find you.
39:28
Yes, I, And thank you.
39:30
I, right now I'm writing, so you can find me over at Substack.
39:34
My Substack is The Unimaginably Good Life.
39:37
And I'm a travel writer, so I do have an unimaginably good life.
39:40
I get to travel to really fun places.
39:42
And I'm gonna be pouring more of that into the Substack, and then I'm also gonna be continuing this conversation about emotional spritie and emotional recovery.
39:50
So find me over there.
39:52
Perfect.
39:53
So where can they find you?
39:54
Just on your Substack, and we'll have that in the show notes?
39:56
Yeah.
39:56
That's the best place to go?
39:58
Yep.
39:58
Okay.
39:58
And then if anybody wants to get a preview of the book, you can go to my website, megan divadio dot com, and there's a place there where the first chapter is available for free.
40:08
Okay.
40:09
Perfect.
40:10
And oh, this was fun.
40:12
This was...
40:12
We had two episodes, and it was just- I know super fun.
40:14
So thank you so much for coming on.
40:17
Tammy, thank you for inviting me back and being one of the first first places that I've been able to talk to about this work.
40:23
I don't often get interviewed, and this was such a delight, and I feel seen and witnessed, and I feel appreciated, so thank you for having me.
40:31
It's been really fun.
40:32
Oh you are very welcome.
40:33
But before you go, and you're not off the hook.
40:35
Ah.
40:35
If you had to give the listeners one big words of wisdom, piece of advice, or something they can take with them to make their day a little brighter, what would that message be?
40:46
Yeah.
40:47
I think since, like we've been talking a lot about emotions in this episode, I think just keep in mind, I would say keep in mind that the word emotion just means energy in motion.
40:58
It's got the word motion right there.
41:00
So it's not gonna last forever.
41:02
It's gonna move through you.
41:04
When we allow emotions to move through us, then they usually s- you know, dissipate like a wave.
41:10
So I would say just keep that in mind, and be comforted by the fact that they are ephemeral.
41:16
And yeah, if you can surf the good ones, surf the good ones.
41:21
Amen.
41:22
Thank you so much again, Megan.
41:24
I appreciate you.
41:24
And for everybody else out there listening, come back, listen to the last episode.
41:29
We just did another episode just right before this one.
41:33
Grab Megan's book when it's ready.
41:34
It'll be in the show notes, and you all have a blessed and wonderful day, and know that, like she said, energy, emotion is just energy in motion.
41:43
Keep it positive.
41:44
The more positive energy you put into the world, the more positive you're gonna get back.
41:48
So love you all, and you have a blessed day.