Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / The Unique Relationship Issues Of Men In IT

Transcript

The Unique Relationship Issues Of Men In IT · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today, I'm going to be talking about the unique
• 0:11
  issues faced by men who work in it, Information Technology, the
• 0:15
  guys who have computer jobs, pretty much, which is what
• 0:19
  everybody thinks it was not an IT and doesn't know anything
• 0:21
  about it. So before we get to that, please
• 0:24
  do subscribe, my most recent subscriber episode was on, why
• 0:27
  not to shame your partner for their sexual fantasies and
• 0:31
  whatever the next episode is that I record will also be
• 0:33
  subscriber only. So if you subscribe, you will
• 0:36
  get that. All right, so I did one, I did
• 0:39
  episodes on the unique relationship issues of CEOs,
• 0:42
  doctors and lawyers. And another group of guys that I
• 0:45
  see come in a lot, our guys in it.
• 0:47
  Why? Because they tend to be overly
• 0:50
  logical and kind of unemotional. And if you say that's a
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  stereotype, like everything I say, is a generalization to help
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  the majority of people who feel that they fit into the bucket.
• 1:00
  If you yourself are a man and it who also spends his spare time
• 1:04
  writing love poetry. Then certainly, this does not
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  apply to you at all, but the majority of the men who I see an
• 1:11
  it, what do their wives say about them that they are not
• 1:14
  creative and not romantic when it comes to the emotional
• 1:18
  component of the relationship. Also, another thing is that a
• 1:23
  lot of them, spent all their time on the computer, and this
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  means that like they are less comfortable in real life than on
• 1:30
  the computer. So you got like a lot of very
• 1:32
  introverted guys and introverts are Great.
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  I am myself an introvert but the thing is, is there.
• 1:40
  Like if you don't have to talk to people during the day, very
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  much in order to get your job done, then you may get out of
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  practice at doing that and start to feel even more comfortable
• 1:49
  than you started out, which was already pretty comfortable not
• 1:52
  talking to anybody. So, you would think that, like,
• 1:56
  if you spend all your time on the computer, then you're gonna
• 1:59
  like, have a lot of built-up things that you want to say to
• 2:03
  your wife. But in reality, you don't, And
• 2:06
  you just kind of feel Rusty. And when she wants to have a
• 2:09
  conversation at the end of the day, you feel intellectually
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  depleted because it is a difficult job but also very kind
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  of out of practice that talking about anything that isn't almost
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  like a logic puzzle, you know? And if like my kid, like, you
• 2:26
  just started coding, right? Like my son, he's nine.
• 2:29
  And he just started coding. And he's like, just silently new
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  that you just like silent code. Being like what he was doing
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  like chess or like I mean he's got other stuff and making him
• 2:40
  sound like a real Point Dexter. But I mean does other stuff and
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  just Jiu-Jitsu we did you know his regular little boy but he
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  also had these interests like chess or it not idea python or
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  whatever he's coding. Now I with Chess at least like
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  there's like a chest.com. You could like talk shit to each
• 3:00
  other you know what you're like playing against each other.
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  You just like learning how to code.
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  He's watching a bunch. Stuff, I'd Cody that he's
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  coding, it's like very quiet and so you really get in the zone
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  and a lot of the guys that I work with that are in IIT or
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  very much in the zone all day in a silent thinking Zone but like
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  they're not engaging in like a meaningful.
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  Certainly not an emotional way with other humans and like it's
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  like everything else you could get very out of practice at
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  things so while like An introverted personality type
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  makes you like good at this job, because you can be alone for
• 3:40
  extended periods and, you know, engaged in deep thought and, you
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  know, creating things on the screen also.
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  A lot of these guys could benefit for a little bit more
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  practice and now we come to like the real coup de gras here is
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  when you're allowed to do full-time telecommuting.
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  So it used to be that even the it guys had to go into the
• 4:00
  office. A lot of them, sometimes, at
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  least, at least at the, at the beginning of my career, you
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  know, Well in that case you're situated in an office
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  environment which is bringing out somewhat of, you know, your
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  social skills and you're getting two home them a little bit even
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  you know, against your will. But now I mean the vast majority
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  if not all of my mail client and I TR telecommuting so it's like
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  they literally just go to the basement and don't talk and me
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  of course you got to talk sometimes but it's not like it's
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  not like the same as when you would.
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  Have to, you know, commute and then talk to somebody as you go
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  into the building and talk to people at lunch, you remember,
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  people used to have lunch? Like that's something that
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  people don't even remember. Now, in the age of telecommuting
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  is everybody that was at a job, used to go get lunch frequently
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  together and so that really helps again with the social
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  skills. So you know, if you already tend
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  in this direction and then on top of it you're not getting the
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  other socialization you used to, then you can end up.
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  Up kind of really you know Rusty at this more emotional, you
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  know, jokey bantery kind of conversation that your wife may
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  be yearning for because who's going to go for a man and it who
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  wants this? He's a stable guy with a good
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  job. He never has to travel pretty
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  much, you know, and he has very regular hours, he's kind of
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  quiet and he's like a very Predictable guy.
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  Like he's a very predictable guy and so who's going to gravitate
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  toward this in the first marriage?
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  At least, I've talked about this over and over that.
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  A first marriage is yin to the Yang.
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  People go for odd the opposite. You know instinctively they feel
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  that then within the unit of the couple they will have all things
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  right. So more extroverted emotion
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  focused women tend to go for these men.
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  They also a little bit fragile women, you know, sensitive with
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  Amin highly sensitive women, because they don't like the idea
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  of men in occupations that travel, or that can predict
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  their hours. So from all of the people that
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  I've worked with, I develop kind of my own algorithms of who was
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  drawn to who and it's frequently a highly sensitive woman more
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  extroverted than the man who feels that he's going to be a
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  very good dad. He's very loyal.
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  He's very loving, he's very methodical, you know.
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  And so this is something that she's drawn to if she grew up in
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  a very dysfunctional home Then, you know, with a dad that
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  couldn't be trusted in anyway, then she will definitely
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  gravitate toward this more stable, quiet guy, if her dad
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  cheated, this guy will never cheat.
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  She feels, it's not that she doesn't love him.
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  She loves him, but is she looking for, you know, a bad
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  boy. No, nobody goes for the bad boy,
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  a man and it who has a job where he sits in front of a computer
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  from nine to five that just isn't who you go for.
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  So they're going for somebody who's a food, will be a family,
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  man who can be predicted. Addicted who has a regular
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  schedule, a methodical, you know, way of thinking about the
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  world that can be trusted and relied upon and if he's quiet.
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  Okay, that's cute. It's cute.
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  At the beginning. What happens over time?
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  She starts to think he's too quiet.
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  She starts to think that he's to methodical.
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  She starts to feel like she like, he has no romantic
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  capability or really no inner World men and it are very
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  frequently the male partner in the dynamic that I discussed
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  called the wife, who wants more and Annoyingly satisfied,
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  husband, he's the annoyingly satisfied, husband, you should
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  go back and listen to that podcast.
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  It's also imposed form. And by the way, I mean, this
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  should be relevant. I mean, rather obvious by this
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  point in the episode, but this isn't just men and it, right?
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  I mean, this is men who are in any sort of very quiet, stable
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  predictable, methodical logical job, you know, like a math
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  professor, right? Although when I'm thinking about
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  it, A math professor would have to interact with students, you
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  know, so they do get more, you know, practice at various types
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  of connecting. Not that the it guys don't talk
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  to anybody but they talk to mostly people like themselves
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  all day, you know. And so, whereas if you're the
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  math professor, yes, you have math students, but at least
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  they're quite a different age. You also have to deal with other
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  faculty members, etc, etc. So, you know, it becomes quite
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  insular. The guys were an it and they
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  talk. Two other people who think like
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  them. So then the only person who they
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  feel is quote illogical. Now, this is when things start
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  to get stressful is when the wife wants more than they can
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  give. And so, they start to think of
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  her as a logical and never happy and overly emotional.
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  So, that's when things hit the fan, right?
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  So she becomes frustrated with his lack of romance, his lack of
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  creativity and quite honestly, what she perceives as an
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  increasing lack of social skills, a lot of these women
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  come to me as though they had the great epiphany of the ages.
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  Has, and they say, to me, you know, I think he may be on the
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  Spectrum which like, okay, look, everybody can to be on the
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  Spectrum. He's probably just like a quiet,
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  like kind of nerdy guy, which you knew all along.
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  Of course, some of them could be on the Spectrum, you know, I
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  mean, like, go get an evaluation if you really feel like he could
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  be on the Spectrum, but the reality of it is whether or not
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  he's on the Spectrum, you know, you liked it at the beginning.
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  And in some cases, by the way, you Not like in the beginning.
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  And in those cases women, who come from more dysfunctional,
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  families, with more chaos, who are really subconsciously only
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  drawn to stability. We're not in love with these
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  guys, and that's not out of some sort of malicious intent to
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  Hoodwink a man into marriage. You know, it's literally because
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  they don't know if they're capable of deep romantic love at
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  all, or if that's even really a thing, because they never saw
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  it. So, maybe that's just from the
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  movies. And this is like a good guy,
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  that'll be a good dad and they have zero thought that they will
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  ever become dissatisfied with him.
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  Like that's really how that goes, you know.
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  But it doesn't go like a woman is like I am going to take this
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  man and I t.i. or whatever the hell he is, you know, man and in
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  a very logical quiet profession and I am going to marry him bug
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  then, you know, as though it were like a fairytale on the eve
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  of our tenth anniversary, I will tell him but I never loved him.
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  That's like not how it goes. But what does happen is that as
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  the woman gets more confidence and she starts to look back at
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  her upbringing, maybe through therapy, maybe just through life
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  through the increase in confidence that comes from
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  parenting and growing up. She may be like, oh my God, this
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  guy really never talk to me at all and I thought that that
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  least I was better than my lunatic drunk father.
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  But turns out that I'm lonely. So this is when this couple
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  comes to couples counseling and by and then the guy can feel
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  there was a real bait and switch he basically thought that there.
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  That their life together would be somewhat of activity
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  Partners. You know, I mean these are a lot
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  of the guys that come in and they're like we used to hike, we
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  used to go camping. We used to, you know, play XYZ
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  board game and now we don't do anything and we don't have sex
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  either and she seems like she doesn't like me no matter what I
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  do. So a lot of those guys feel like
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  what the fuck, I'm the same person, truly they are the same
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  person, but the woman changed and people who are more
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  emotionally focused, More. So this is a man or a woman.
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  This isn't like one of those things where you could be like
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  oh women are never happy men. Who are more emotional tend to
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  also introspect and try to evolve more as human beings.
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  These are the guys that come to me and are the podcasts that I
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  did, which was the annoyingly satisfied wife, and the man who
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  wants more in bed, because that's usually how it manifests
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  for meant. But these men will be like, holy
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  shit, why did I get like? The equivalent will be a guy.
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  So if you ask the Under equivalent would be interesting.
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  Is there a gender equivalent? Yes, the gender equivalent it.
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  The or the inverse gender equivalent is like a man who was
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  with a woman who he found boring that was like his Open Secret.
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  That was the elephant in the room.
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  Is he found her boring but very stable and she would be a good
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  mother and he had been with a bunch of women who had
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  borderline personality disorder traits before and were always
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  calling him at like, 3:00 in the morning and threatening to like
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  his, you know, car on fire. And then he found this boring
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  stable woman. Um and he basically fell in love
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  with her truly because it was the honeymoon stage, but she
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  wasn't a good fit. And he was always kind of a
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  little bored by her. There's that situation too.
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  So that's kind of like the same thing.
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  So the men and it all of the traits that the woman wanted
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  them for sometimes, over time the woman no longer likes those
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  traits and things. Why did I not want more of a
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  sold romantic connection with this man for getting that.
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  At the time, he was exactly what she needed and who she wanted.
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  Does it mean They have to stay together forever after this, if
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  she falls out of love with him, certainly not.
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  But I mean, it does mean that couples counseling can get them
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  to a place where they both realized, why they picked one
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  another and can try to work on aspects of the relationship that
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  are not working. Such as he can try to learn to
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  be more romantic and she can try to learn to have some Grace and
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  compassion being as you know she did pick him.
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  He probably is a great dad and the reality is would she really
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  be happy with a man who was more tempestuous and Oh tional, maybe
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  not. But maybe, I mean, you know,
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  every situation is individual. The reason that these men do
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  very well in couples counseling is the exact reason that.
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  You know, the thing that woman has a problem with their very
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  methodical, they're very logical.
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  If I can explain to them what they should try, they'll try
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  anything, why not? They have really, they know the
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  woman is unhappy, they'll take feedback.
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  They're usually very coachable and they know this is not their
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  wheelhouse. So they don't have any ego about
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  it. I've never met one of these
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  types of guys. Who says no, no.
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  I'm very good at emotion, though.
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  They know they're not good at emotion.
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  They know. They're not good at romance who
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  they're willing to work on anything.
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  So that's the benefit is that they're very coachable and
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  they're very smart. So, you know, if you can portray
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  what they need to do in a way that they understand an ally
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  with and identify with in a step-by-step sort of way
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  literally like you need to buy her a present.
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  What sort of present would we buy her?
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  What does she like? How frequently can you do this?
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  What do you like about her? How often do you tell her that?
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  Never well, that's probably bad. You know?
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  So what do you so? Let's all write it down.
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  All the things that you actually feel about her but never tell
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  her. Oh you think about her many
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  times a day? Wow, does she know that?
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  Do you ever text her? No?
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  Why? Oh, because you know you think
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  that she knows already that you love her because it's obvious.
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  No, that's not the way to think about it.
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  Here's how to think about it instead.
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  You know. Like I'll be talking to guys
• 15:00
  like this and I'll be like you how often you tell your wife,
• 15:02
  you love her. They'll be like, oh, I think it
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  must be at least once a week. I'm a I want a week.
• 15:06
  Your wife is asking for more romance.
• 15:08
  It's free. It takes you like three seconds
• 15:10
  to say. I love you.
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  Why not do it. They just don't even think about
• 15:13
  it. They think of, I love you as a
• 15:14
  transmission of a factoid that the woman already knows.
• 15:17
  It would be like, going up to her and the tapping her on the
• 15:20
  shoulder. And being like, Hey, look, it's
• 15:21
  sunny out like, no shit. You know, why would you even
• 15:24
  like, say that is so obvious? But when they understand that,
• 15:27
  that's like the way to be romantic that that's like,
• 15:30
  foreplay that that's like what it would be.
• 15:31
  If the woman came up in French, kiss them, then everything can
• 15:35
  Be understood differently. Anyway, whether or not you are
• 15:39
  with or are a man and it or a similar sort of profession or
• 15:43
  just have a personality type, like the one I described and are
• 15:46
  in a dynamic, like, the one I described, I hope that you found
• 15:48
  this useful and relevant. If you ever want to reach out
• 15:51
  for a couples counseling with me, or anybody who works for me
• 15:54
  at best life Behavioral, Health all of the links and information
• 15:58
  for that is always in the description of the episode.
• 16:00
  And I hope that you guys got a lot out of this and I'll talk to
• 16:03
  you soon. Have a great day.