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The Unspoken Signs: How to Tell if Your Business Conversation is Actually Going Somewhere · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome. My name is Tavishima Ayedi.
• 0:03
  I'm the host of the podcast and I'm making today's recording at
• 0:06
  home. So there's going to be some
• 0:08
  noise in the background because kids at home and they're
• 0:10
  watching Teen Titans as usual. Now, the goal of this podcast is
• 0:14
  solving business problems, problems with sales, marketing,
• 0:18
  customers, side hustles, career if you're a sales, if you're a
• 0:21
  career salesperson or other things that could be holding
• 0:24
  your business back. Now, if any of these things
• 0:26
  resonate with you, then this is the show for you.
• 0:29
  So subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, or any player of
• 0:33
  your choice. And if you'd love to connect,
• 0:36
  please call or SMS or WhatsApp me on 08064662140.
• 0:43
  Today on the podcast, I want us to figure out how do we know if
• 0:47
  we have a sweet customer on the line?
• 0:51
  How do we know if this is a good customer interaction that we're
• 0:54
  having? How do we know if this is a deal
• 0:58
  that is worth pursuing? How do we know if this is a deal
• 1:02
  that is likely to close? Sorry, I can't come up with a
• 1:05
  more concise way to, you know, to say exactly what it is that
• 1:09
  we're doing today. But basically, OK, you guys know
• 1:14
  that I coach, I consult, I train, and lots of times I'm
• 1:18
  talking to business owners while I'm talking to sales people and
• 1:21
  they feel like, oh, what this deal is a is a sure thing.
• 1:24
  Sure, banker like this one will close and I ask why and they say
• 1:29
  I know when I was talking to the guy the way he was responding,
• 1:32
  you know, I say like this, they say like this, we are laughing,
• 1:34
  we are vibing. Or when I was talking to her the
• 1:37
  way she was talking, you know as in the vibe.
• 1:40
  The you understand some people just feel as if the vibe is
• 1:44
  cool. Therefore this deal will close.
• 1:48
  Unfortunately, that is not the case now because of the nature
• 1:53
  of businesses that some of you are involved in.
• 1:55
  It would take a while before this thing clicks.
• 1:58
  But I started off in the event space, weddings in particular,
• 2:03
  and this thing used to happen to us a lot all the time.
• 2:06
  You meet a bride at the bridal show.
• 2:08
  You guys are hitting it off cool.
• 2:10
  You are laughing, you're joking. You're like, oh man is the
• 2:13
  correct babe. You know, you feel as if this
• 2:16
  one is a done deal. She calls you for the meeting.
• 2:20
  You show up to our house. Our parents love you, you know,
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  the the bride to be loves you. Everybody's feeling you.
• 2:26
  They will offer you breakfast. They give you some wine, you
• 2:31
  know, you relax, you have breakfast, you know, you have
• 2:35
  omelets and sausage and just gisting, you're feeling as if
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  everything is cool. This one has happened to me
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  before. I'm serious.
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  That's happened to me before. We had omelets, sausages, eggs.
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  What again do we have? We have some wine, you know, in
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  the hotel was Mumsy that paid. That's the old mumsy.
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  I pay for everything. Then when the time came home,
• 2:56
  I'm sorry we've gone with somebody else.
• 2:57
  I was like how after all this time that we spent together, how
• 3:04
  I was now feeling like a jutted lover.
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  Like like all of us are cool now.
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  Like we're on a first name basis.
• 3:12
  You know, me, my family, I know all of you like one of the first
• 3:16
  name basis. Like how so when you're in
• 3:21
  service industry, like events, you learn quickly there's not
• 3:26
  everybody that is shining teeth with you that this deal is a
• 3:29
  correct deal, that this deal is going to close.
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  So it's something that we wedding photographers, wedding
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  videographers, those of you who do catering for weddings, those
• 3:38
  of you who do cakes, you know, things like that.
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  You learn very quickly there's not everybody that smiles with
• 3:43
  you that's going to end up giving you money.
• 3:47
  So if these subjective ways of figuring out how a deal is
• 3:50
  going, subjective just means, you know, on a personal level,
• 3:53
  like how I'm feeling you, how now they feel me, like what's
• 3:57
  the vibe? All that is subjective.
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  If all these subjective things cannot let us know how is the
• 4:02
  deal going, then are there any other tools we can use?
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  The answer is yes, there are objective.
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  Objective means doesn't depend on me, doesn't depend on you.
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  We have to ask ourselves the question.
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  We either know the answer or we don't.
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  If we know the answer, we know whether we're leaning positive
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  or negative or neutral, but either way, there are questions
• 4:25
  that we can ask. So today I want us to look at
• 4:28
  the objective questions that will help you determine whether
• 4:33
  this conversation is a sweet deal or not because believe me,
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  it happens all the time. Like for the crew, then I'm
• 4:39
  training in solar is one of the guys was very happy and I said,
• 4:43
  what's up now You're really vibrating today like you're on a
• 4:46
  high note. What's going on?
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  He said I'm talking to somebody more.
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  This is going to close. I said it's going to close.
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  Fill me in. I said no problem.
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  I called the guy. Guy is baiting Bouchy.
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  We're talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking.
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  The deal might close at so million, but to be honest, even
• 5:04
  if we manage and collect 11, you'll still be OK.
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  You know, based on logistics and this and this and this.
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  The guys say, you know, you do power payment 80%, blah, blah,
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  blah. And you know, when I was talking
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  like this or saying this, the way that we are flowing, the guy
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  sounds educated in this sort of thing.
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  Sounds like he has done his research.
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  Like forget this thing is a done deal.
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  Congress, Congress. It's always nice when you have a
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  good call. He said thank you, Sir, it's OK,
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  But you know what, let me ask you some more questions.
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  So I fire a shoot. I said OK, so budget, did you
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  guys discuss money expectations? He said of course.
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  Now, now the guy said he's willing to drop 80% and I'm
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  thinking maybe if this thing comes in at 11,000,000 will be
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  OK, even though what I proposed to him was, you know, XYZ
• 5:47
  million. I said, did you ask him if the
• 5:50
  budget was OK? He said no Sir.
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  I said did you get feedback on the budget?
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  He said no, Sir. I said in that case, we can't
• 5:57
  really say that we know anything about the budget.
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  The framework I'm using, by the way, now is band.
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  Band is BANT. It's a qualification.
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  And what's it called? Again?
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  Qualification and discovery is a qualification and discovery
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  framework. These are frameworks that you
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  use to be able to figure out if you have the key elements, the
• 6:19
  key ingredients in closing a sale.
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  They also do things that guide you so that you know the
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  important questions that you ask somebody during the sales
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  process. Because if you don't ask these
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  key things, if you don't put your mind and put their mind on
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  these key things, then most likely you do not have the sale
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  And for band as a qualification framework that is budget
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  authority, need and then timelines.
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  So budget now, that's why you have all these money
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  conversations. Did you explicitly have the
• 6:49
  money conversation? No, somebody saying he's willing
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  to do part payment of 80%, I mean, that's good.
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  But The thing is, you know, you need to ask.
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  So like in my own case, if somebody says that we need to do
• 7:00
  part payment, we have been throwing around some numbers.
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  The low figure is 11, the high figure is 13.
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  As they're on the phone, I'm using my calculator and doing
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  some small math so that at the end of the day, I want to be
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  able to ask together. OK, Sir, I like the way the
• 7:14
  conversation is flowing. You say that you're willing to
• 7:17
  do a part payment. So does this mean Sir, that if
• 7:22
  all the technical specs, if all the technical specs are correct,
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  you would be going, you'd be willing to go ahead on this
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  project to the tune of either 8 million or 10 million?
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  You'll be able to make that as a deposit.
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  I will ask upfront and hear him say nay, yes or hear him say no.
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  It is only when I have gained feedback on the budget that I
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  will now know whether we are good to go because somebody will
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  say no. When I said part payment of 80%,
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  what I meant was part payment of 80% is realistic is doable.
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  It's not as if I have that kind of money and I'm ready to drop
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  it. You see, there's something in
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  business or in sales that people call happy years.
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  Happy years just means we hear what we want to hear.
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  So you need to know and this one reason why we have to ask
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  questions a lot because a lot of times we're hearing what we want
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  to hear. That couple that dealt with me,
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  they did me as if I'm a jilted lover.
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  I was here what I wanted to hear.
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  The fact that people invite you into your home, the fact that
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  they give you wine, the fact that they give you eggs and
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  bacon and sausage, the fact that they are paid up, the fact that
• 8:38
  they're asking after your children by name does not mean
• 8:42
  this deal is going to close. And the fact that the bride's
• 8:47
  parents have, you know, putting you on a first name basis does
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  not mean this thing is going to close.
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  You ask in that case, I didn't ask them anything.
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  I went, I made the proposal. I showed them my samples.
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  They said we'll think about it. They said the quality of my work
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  was wonderful. I gain, I didn't ask feedback on
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  nothing. I didn't ask feedback on
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  nothing. I saw when I did my follow up to
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  say, oh, it's been a while. I've heard from you say, oh,
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  sorry, I forgot to tell you, we've got for somebody else.
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  I thoroughly mismanaged the sales process.
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  And that is why I had that feeling of a young man who calls
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  his girlfriend and then she's in the arms of another man.
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  She was never yours to begin with, my guy.
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  You just didn't know. So that's the situation that I
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  found myself in. And lots of us, we find
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  ourselves in our situation in business a lot.
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  But we need to ask budget. We need to get feedback on the
• 9:44
  budget. Based on what we've discussed,
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  based on these samples we've seen, based on the technical
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  aspects that we're discussing, it could cost anything between
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  11,000,000 to 8 million to source this sort of thing.
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  How far what do you think about that?
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  Is that a reasonable budget? Is that something you're willing
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  to pay? Is that something you're willing
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  to invest? How does that match up with your
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  budget? And then hear what they have to
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  say. Don't assume the fact that the
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  guy is still laughing with you. Maybe he's just being polite.
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  He wants to say no, he just don't know how.
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  Especially since, you know, you seem to be a correct guy, you
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  seem to be a correct girl, and he will vibing real well.
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  So gain feedback on the budget, gain some clarity on the budget.
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  Ask some direct questions on money expectations.
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  Is this more than you're willing to pay?
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  Is this the kind of figure you had in mind when you reached
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  out? How does this relate to the
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  other quotes that you have? See there are 1,000,000 and one
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  ways of asking these sorts of things.
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  But The thing is sit down with your GPT and come up with sorry
• 10:56
  1 moment. OK, sorry about that.
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  One of my kids is just walked in.
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  You know I left my door open while I was making the
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  recording. Where was I?
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  So I was saying sit down with your GPT, sit down with Google
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  Gemini, sit down whatever it is you like and try and brainstorm
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  the possible ways that you can have money conversations that
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  you can have budget conversations that you can
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  discuss. You know, the range, the budget
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  range ranges that people have in mind, you know, before talking
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  to you. So budget in this case.
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  Now the customer that the that this solar sales Rep was talking
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  to you about she for budget. Did we gain clarification?
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  No, we didn't. So budget well, we know that you
• 11:47
  guys had part payment 80% no problem.
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  We know that we mentioned 11,000,000.
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  We know that you mentioned 13 million.
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  You know we didn't get any feedback.
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  What's your budget? Let's write that down.
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  Next thing is authority. Authority now in month means we
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  have to get close to the person who is willing and able and
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  capable to make the decision because lots of times lots of us
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  are talking to people who have no authority.
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  Again, that is something that you learn very quickly when
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  you're in the event space like I was, because sometimes somebody
• 12:20
  will call you and she'll be very friendly and you people will
• 12:23
  talk and you talk for 45 minutes and you feel as if this deal is
• 12:29
  going somewhere. After three weeks, you will now
• 12:31
  discover that she's the sister of the bride, that she's the
• 12:34
  younger sister of the bride. It is there that the story will
• 12:37
  now start taking a nasty turn because in the event space, we
• 12:43
  all know that the younger sister of the bride, even if she likes
• 12:46
  you, she can't force her big sister to use you.
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  She can't. It's not her own wedding.
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  This is how we use whoever it is that she wants to.
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  So in the wedding space, we learned very quickly for those
• 12:58
  of us who deal with things on the bright side, that if you're
• 13:01
  not talking to the bride direct, chances are you might be wasting
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  your time. So the cousin of the bride, the
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  sister of the bride, the you know, there are some cases where
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  people can pull rank. Like if I'm talking to the
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  parents of the bride direct, Oh yes, no problem.
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  Because after all, they're the ones who will pay.
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  So yes, the parents of the bride, they can pull rank.
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  Although I didn't like those situations because there are
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  some, those one situation in particular where the parents,
• 13:27
  they liked me, but the bride, she hated me.
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  I said Wahala when I showed up that day, the Brad, she just
• 13:34
  squeezed her face because she wanted one celebrity
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  photographer but the parents picked me.
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  MENA. Brad was angry.
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  I said hey, you don't help anyway, what was I so authority?
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  We have to be talking to the person who is willing, who is
• 13:48
  able, who is capable to make the buying decision to initiate the
• 13:53
  transaction. So in this case, the person that
• 13:57
  they were talking to in Bauchi, it's a business.
• 14:00
  What they want to do is they want to charge, create a
• 14:03
  charging station for phones, laptops, you know, all these
• 14:07
  sorts of things. So I asked the salespersons, OK,
• 14:10
  cool, no problem. On authority, what information
• 14:14
  did we find out? Do we find out whether he's
• 14:16
  doing this business in partnership with other people
• 14:19
  or? No, I didn't ask.
• 14:21
  It's nice to ask this sort of thing.
• 14:23
  I mean, if it's a business, there's a way you can stylishly
• 14:27
  ask to figure out whether he's in this, you know, alone or not.
• 14:31
  Because OK, let's let's put it this way.
• 14:32
  You can't be talking with the person.
• 14:33
  You say, ah, now boss, this sounds like a very wonderful
• 14:36
  idea, but your business partners, I hope they're on
• 14:38
  board with all this. The person says, oh, no, I don't
• 14:41
  have business partners. I'm a sole owner of this
• 14:43
  business. Now you know that in this case
• 14:47
  there is no other person you need to talk to so you can see
• 14:52
  that they're stylish. Where you ask, you don't ask
• 14:55
  him. Are you the one who is going to
• 14:56
  make the decision? I know that's too direct.
• 14:58
  You, you, you will, you will insult somebody.
• 15:01
  So like in this case, what is your, what do your business
• 15:04
  partners think or you and the members of the board?
• 15:08
  Is everybody in agreement? It is then you now know for sure
• 15:13
  now, Oh yes, I have a board, but the board does not make these
• 15:16
  sorts of decisions. These sorts of decisions fall
• 15:18
  within my own purview. So we're fine.
• 15:22
  We're good to go. So authority, what do we know?
• 15:26
  Nothing, by the way. See, I'm not trying to bust the
• 15:29
  guys bubble. Oh, I'm not trying to humiliate
• 15:31
  the guy to say this is not a deal.
• 15:33
  I'm just trying to let him know. And I'm just trying to let you
• 15:36
  know that is not every single sweet conversation where people
• 15:39
  are shining teeth with you guys. A is is a is a done deal.
• 15:44
  So continue to be sweet and cool people.
• 15:47
  I continue to shine teeth is all good.
• 15:50
  In my own case, they invited me to give me wine.
• 15:53
  They gave me sausage, they gave me bacon, you know, eat the
• 15:56
  bacon. But then we focus ask the
• 15:59
  questions that you need to ask about budget, about authority,
• 16:04
  about need, about timeline. Then I said OK, need, what do we
• 16:09
  know? So authority, we don't know
• 16:10
  anything. So need what do we know now?
• 16:13
  Well, don't want to use it to power the place where they're
• 16:17
  going to be charging phone, charging laptop, you know, all
• 16:19
  these sorts of things. That's OK, No problem.
• 16:21
  Yeah, that's a need. But did we go deeper?
• 16:24
  Have they tried solving this problem before?
• 16:27
  Is it that they're using NEPA to do this thing now, but NEPA is
• 16:30
  messing them up, so that's the reason why they want to invest
• 16:32
  in solar? Or is it that they've been doing
• 16:34
  Napa plus Gen. but NEPA plus Gen. the cost is too high, so
• 16:38
  maybe that's why they're thinking of solar.
• 16:41
  I don't know. Well, you need to ask these
• 16:44
  kinds of questions because it gives us a sign as to how
• 16:47
  serious this person is that we are having a conversation with.
• 16:51
  Because sometimes some people are just curious.
• 16:54
  They might be doing this business and they're doing it
• 16:57
  with NEPA Plus Generator. And with NEPA Plus Generator,
• 17:00
  their profit margins are fine and maybe they're doing 800 K
• 17:04
  1.2 every single month. And so they're doing OK.
• 17:08
  It's just that, you know, the business partner said go and do
• 17:11
  some research. So I'm just calling to do some
• 17:14
  research. It will be nice to know that the
• 17:17
  person you're talking to is just doing research.
• 17:20
  It's not as if he has a problem that he's trying to solve.
• 17:24
  If that's the case, you will continue to reduce with the
• 17:26
  person on a research level. No need for trial close, no need
• 17:33
  for strong closing tactics is a simple matter of OK, sure, no
• 17:38
  problem. Let me learn some more about
• 17:40
  your business. Here are the figures that you
• 17:42
  need. You know, can I be in touch, you
• 17:44
  know, in case things change in the future, Can I add you to my
• 17:47
  e-mail list? You know, once in a while you
• 17:49
  call the guy what's up? How's business doing?
• 17:51
  So maybe we hear that the National Grid has collapsed or
• 17:55
  something like that, You know, because our National Grid in
• 17:57
  Nigeria is always collapsing. When National Grid collapses,
• 18:01
  you call the guy again, what's up?
• 18:02
  How you did? How's business this National
• 18:04
  Grid? Obviously no to only thing no to
• 18:08
  has you guys over there about you, you know, you have the
• 18:10
  conversation and laugh about it. Maybe that's the way you now
• 18:13
  stylishly used to bring this thing up again.
• 18:15
  Now come you know what national greed is collapsing at this rate
• 18:18
  6 times every year. Are you sure, even though you
• 18:21
  are just curious, I sure you should not just consider this in
• 18:25
  seriously. Let me put together a proposal.
• 18:26
  Let's see what we can do for you know.
• 18:29
  So that's how you entered the conversation again.
• 18:31
  But at least you know that the person who's doing research,
• 18:33
  this is not somebody they're going to be following up, you
• 18:36
  know, close marking like that. But ask these questions.
• 18:42
  So need, what do you know about their need?
• 18:44
  No, we don't know much. And then timeline.
• 18:47
  Timeline means we need to get a sense, excuse me, of when these
• 18:52
  people are willing to make a decision.
• 18:53
  How ready are they to make a decision?
• 18:59
  Yeah, that's that's it. Basically, one way of figuring
• 19:04
  out is just to ask, like me, I always start with, you know why
• 19:07
  now? So how come you guys are looking
• 19:08
  at this now? That is when people will say,
• 19:10
  oh, the reason why I'm looking at this now is because of XYZ
• 19:14
  and this and this and that. So because of that, this is the
• 19:16
  kind of thing that I want to make sure we finish before
• 19:18
  November of 2025. In that case, in my head, I now
• 19:23
  have a rough date, November ish. It gives me a sense of whether
• 19:29
  these people are serious and how to continue to pursue them.
• 19:32
  So I say timeline. What's the timeline?
• 19:35
  I don't know. Now, I don't think it's sunk in
• 19:40
  with this guy, but I hope it's sinking in for you that it's
• 19:43
  possible for you to have a sweet conversation with somebody.
• 19:46
  You will are laughing at shining teeth by the end of the day.
• 19:49
  Budget, you know nothing or you have confirmed nothing.
• 19:54
  Authority decision maker, you have confirmed nothing.
• 19:58
  Need you have confirmed nothing. Timeline, you have confirmed
• 20:02
  nothing. In that case, I can't say it is
• 20:06
  a good deal. I can't say it is a bad deal.
• 20:09
  But I can say that there are lots of things we need to
• 20:11
  confirm before we even know whether this thing is actually
• 20:13
  sweet or not because it's not by the level of shining teeth.
• 20:18
  So like I said. Some of you may because of
• 20:21
  nature of your business, you understand what it is I'm
• 20:23
  saying. But if you know somebody who has
• 20:26
  been in the event space, especially weddings, one ask
• 20:31
  them. They will be able to relate to
• 20:32
  you and tell you that what I'm saying is true.
• 20:35
  There are some people that you will assume like ah man, like
• 20:40
  we're now best friends. You now find that they gave the
• 20:45
  job to somebody else. So it's not that the customer is
• 20:50
  confused, it's not that they are deceitful, it's not that they
• 20:54
  are liars is that you didn't do your homework, you didn't ask
• 20:57
  the right questions. So that's one example of a
• 21:00
  qualification framework. But budget authority need
• 21:03
  timeline. I've made lots of episodes about
• 21:05
  it before. So when you're done listening to
• 21:08
  this episode, Scroll down. We have over 1200 episodes.
• 21:11
  Just be looking for anything that has BANT in it or
• 21:15
  qualification in it or discovery or qualification and discovery.
• 21:20
  Some of the older episodes, I haven't called it conversation
• 21:23
  framework. So anything that has
• 21:25
  conversation, you know, you have some more details.
• 21:27
  So that's one. So you can see that there are
• 21:30
  ways that we can objectively know whether we have a good deal
• 21:34
  or not. But please do not be deceived.
• 21:38
  It's not according to the level of how somebody is smiling with
• 21:41
  you, because if that is how you judge all these things, you will
• 21:47
  find yourself getting heartbroken plenty of times
• 21:52
  during the year. If bad, sounds too complicated.
• 21:59
  Brian Tracy used to talk about want, need and afford.
• 22:04
  That is one of the simple qualification frameworks that he
• 22:08
  recommended in his older, older stuff.
• 22:10
  Do these people want this thing? Do they need it?
• 22:12
  Can they afford it? And then some people like to
• 22:17
  throw in urgency. Is there a sense of urgency?
• 22:19
  So let's look at it. Want, need, afford an urgency.
• 22:21
  So back to this case in Bauchi. What do they want?
• 22:24
  This is what they said they want.
• 22:26
  Why do they want it? We don't really know.
• 22:29
  So can we say that there's a want?
• 22:31
  Well, on the face of it, that's what they said.
• 22:33
  But how sure are we? We don't know.
• 22:37
  Is there a need? Well, this is what they said,
• 22:40
  but how sure are we? We don't know.
• 22:42
  So you can see that want I need is sketchy.
• 22:45
  Even though they were laughing and we're talking and wash
• 22:47
  shining teeth. Want I need is sketchy.
• 22:50
  I'm not sure. OK, afford.
• 22:52
  And the guy said he's willing to do part payment 80%.
• 22:56
  But did we clarify? Did we confirm?
• 22:59
  No, we didn't confirm. OK, but so that I won't sound
• 23:02
  like I'm a bad guy, let's just say afford.
• 23:05
  Yes, no problem. Afford.
• 23:06
  Let's say we have confirmed it. Urgency, when are they willing
• 23:11
  to take action? Is there any sense of urgency
• 23:15
  When, when do you think this thing is likely to close?
• 23:18
  We don't know. So you can see that in this
• 23:19
  case, want need afford urgency. Want we are not sure.
• 23:24
  Need, we are not sure afford. OK, well, sure.
• 23:28
  Urgency, we have no idea. So you can see that when you
• 23:32
  start using objective criteria, you now start getting a sense of
• 23:35
  whether this is actually a good deal or what else do I need to
• 23:43
  confirm next time I'm talking with this guy to know if this is
• 23:46
  a good deal. So qualification frameworks,
• 23:50
  there are plenty. Take your chart GPT, go and do
• 23:54
  some research on qualification and discovery frameworks.
• 23:58
  Or go and check YouTube, lots of videos on qualification and
• 24:02
  discovery frameworks. But either way, do not judge how
• 24:05
  good a deal is based on the level of how you guys are
• 24:11
  shining teeth or in my own case, whether they offer you wine and
• 24:14
  whether they offer you breakfast.
• 24:16
  So that's it. And that's all for today.
• 24:20
  Remember, if you'd love to connect then you can call SMS or
• 24:23
  WhatsApp me on 08064662140. Thanks for your time and
• 24:29
  attention. I will catch you next time.
• 24:31
  Same place in your headphones or in your speakers.