Latest / Complex Kids, Simple Solutions / Pennie Wilson — Finding Calm in the Messy Middle of Parenting
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome to Complex Kids Simple Solutions, the podcast for parents raising complex and neurodivergent kids who are doing their best in systems that don't always make things easy. I'm Michelle Shoayde, founder of Special Education Concierge, a mom to a complex kid, a speaker, and an advocate. This space isn't about perfection. It's about real life, the hard days, the small wins. the moments where you wonder if you're doing enough, and the moments where you realize you are. Here we talk honestly, share practical insight, and simplify what feels overwhelming, one conversation at a time. You are your child's hero. Welcome to Complex Kids Simple Solutions. Today we have Payne Wilson and she is a mental fitness coach and the founder of Kokoro Creators, a heart centered movement empowering soul led creators to move beyond fear, self doubt and emotional overwhelm into clarity, confidence and aligned creation. She is passionate about helping people shift from survival patterns into empowered creation. where fear no longer controls their choices and their unique gifts can finally emerge. If parenting feels heavier than you expected, if the questions keep coming and the answers feeling clear, or if you're caring more than most people see, welcome. This is Complex Kids Simple Solutions, a podcast for parents raising complex and neurodivergent kids who want clarity. confidence and support that actually makes sense. I'm Michelle Shoaiti, founder of Special Education Concierge, formerly known as Wisdom for Complex Kids, a speaker, an advocate, a mom who lives this life, and someone who helps parents navigate it. No labels required, no perfect parenting expected, just real conversations, practical perspective, and reminders. that you're not alone. Let's get into today's episode. Hi everyone. Hey, welcome back to Complex Kids Simple Solutions. I'm really excited to have Penny Wilson today with us and I am looking forward to hearing all that she has to say. So welcome Penny. speaker-1: Thanks, Michelle. It's great to be here. Looking forward to connecting with those moms that are struggling in the messy middle and finding that compassion with them and for them. speaker-0: ⁓ that's awesome. I think that we are all in that middle and I don't know when we get out of the middle, but it just feels like the middle is forever. That there's really not another thing after the middle. So, ⁓ talk to us about what you are, what you're doing, how you got to this. ⁓ tell us a little bit about that. speaker-1: Sure. Yeah. So I'm a non-traditional certified hypnotherapist. I now call myself a mental fitness coach because I don't program or I don't hypnotize people in the traditional sense. I teach them to create the own programs in their mind that they want to create and feel for the purpose of them feeling that empowerment and control. I come from a background of having a narcissistic marriage for 17 years and feeling very out of control. And I didn't want to step into anything that would ⁓ create that feeling for the disempowerment for anyone. So my journey kind of led me through all of those stages of figuring myself out and gaining those tools along the journey. was guided to grow a garden of all things and through that process with my hands in the soil, I was able to re create images and beliefs in my heart, the things that I needed to know for who I am and what my purpose is. So programming Kokoro Creators is now a of everything that I've created over the past 20 years. So I really love just empowering parents to understand who they are, what their purpose is, and finding out the way that they can find peace in the middle. It's all about that, calmness in the center of the hurricane, you know? We're just doing the best that we can. And I love that you say in your intro, the kids are doing the best that they can. And we're just walking beside them and breathing together. That's what we're doing. speaker-0: Yes, we are. are. just, it's a, it feels like, you know, we're in this never ending mess, right? And so one of the things that you talked about is, you know, finding and taking care of you. Cause like really one of the things that I always talk about to parents, it's if you're not well, your child is not going to be well. So we need to take care of us. And that's part of my thrive. program, the I, which is I'm going to take care of myself, integration, making sure that I'm taken care of. And so I love that you touched on that. And it sounds like an amazing platform, what you've created. So can you talk to us? I would love to hear about how you. This self-awareness, this, you know, peace, how do you, how do you get to that? Because speaker-1: each. speaker-0: Moms like me, we're like running around trying to get our jobs done, our special needs, our complex kiddos taking care of, our other children making dinner, going to the grocery store, going to Costco, all of that stuff. So how do you teach that? How do you talk to a person, to a mom like that? speaker-1: Yeah, I totally get it because just having my own business, you know, I'm always in the creation mode. There's always the next thing to do. But like you said a minute ago, it's never going to actually be done. There's always going to be something else that's pushing us. So it really is a choice to calm down and get present and feel yourself. And when you do that, when you give yourself that gift and prioritize what you need in that moment, It increases your capacity to show up and be present with your kids. Because if you're in this state of anxiety and you're trying to do everything and going fast and helping your kids, your kids are feeling all of that. But when you slow down and connect and just, hey, what's going on today? How are you feeling? They're going to feel that rooted, grounded calmness. So that's the goal, is to feel the calmness first inside of yourself so that co-regulation part can come in. So it's really a lot of compassion and it's really a decision to prioritize. Just if you start with five minutes, just feel your body, be present in your body. Don't let your brain wander to what you have to do next or the past. Just be present in the moment and breathe. Just really just breathing for five minutes. speaker-0: I tell some of my moms, know, they're always like, when do I have five minutes? I don't have five minutes. And I said, you know what? Like, you know, we're usually like, just pull out, like pull over on the side of the road and take like five or 10, like really deep breaths. And that will help you like that, that state of anxiety of like, I need to do, need to do, I need to do it. It kind of just that just taking that deep breath, like it just calms you down. Yeah, we, know, as moms, you know, this we, we just, that's just in our genes, I think, I think that once you have a kid, like your, your DNA changes, and then like, it's a mess. It's a disaster after. Yeah. So how do you, if you had a mom, who ⁓ came in and you were talking to her with a complex kid. How would you start? speaker-1: I think first, the most important thing is to recognize how you see first yourself and then how you're seeing your child. There's a framework I teach called TED. It's from a book called The Power of TED that stands for the empowerment dynamic. And it teaches two opposite mindset frameworks. And I have visuals and images. So just imagine that you're standing on the beach. You're looking at the sky. Over on the right side up in your right corner is the sun and over on the left side is this ugly huge storm. So if you imagine the storm is everything that you don't want in your life and the sun is what you do want in your life and you can connect the emotions that are different when your brain is pointed toward what you want versus when your brain is pointed toward the problem. So when you're looking inside of yourself, am I seeing myself focusing on the problem? Or am I focusing on the desired results? So it's a lot of intuitiveness of becoming aware of what's happening in your thoughts. So the two opposite triangles, the one on the left side is called the dreaded drama triangle, or it's based in the Cartman triangle with the victim, the persecutor and the, ⁓ my brain. Let me grab my, sometimes I just, victim, persecutor and rescuer. And when we're always running and trying to fix everything, that can get us trapped in that triangle that we don't want that creates drama. And then on the opposite side is the creator, the challenger and the coach. And that's stepping in a different energy into a place where we're growing and learning and empowering our kids to learn and grow through all the choices. So learning about that framework can really help. speaker-0: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I, course, everybody wants to look towards the sun, right? You would never go back into that storm, but it's also so hard to run from the storm. It's like the storms coming towards you. But I, um, you know, for the past couple of years, and this is of course me, I, I've really tried to look at that sun and you know, this is one of the things, this is a sun like, creating this podcast, creating my business, create, you know, being able to help parents through advocacy and all of those things. And it has really changed my kids, my, being like, and I think that it has a lot to do also to like letting some of this stuff go, right? Not like, not having to be perfect all the time. And I think that that is what we hold as moms of complex kiddos. We hold that deep feeling of I have to get this right for my kid and I'm going to do everything that I can to get it right, even when it's wrong. you know, but when you let some of those things go and you allow the children to kind of feel what you're feeling, right. then things calm down a little bit. Yeah. How do you integrate like the kids with the parents? Like would you bring the kids in? Is there something that you would do in relationship with the parents and the kids besides, you know, what you're talking about? Like, do you actually bring in the children to talk to them or how does it work? speaker-1: Interestingly enough, I was talking to my 10 year old last night as I was putting her to bed. She's like, Mom, can I go to a meditation with you? Can I be on the show? Can I be on the stage? She wants to be in the spotlight. And we do have a vision of creating that mommy daughter kind of experience. But right now it's about the ripple effect of first owning your own space. And just by that, if you imagine a bullseye with three circles, you having that power within you automatically. influences those children and those people outside in your work. So that's where we focus right now. Hopefully, eventually we can get to that space where we've created a program that's the mommy and daughter kind of thing, but really just helping them to see that this is something that they can choose. And we do that through a process called the four Rs, the Kokoro four Rs. So you were talking a minute ago, like we're getting this right as parents, right? And there's maybe a belief or something that feels heavy in that. So when you're analyzing and figuring out how do I shift from that storm to the sun, there's four simple Rs that you can journal through or meditate through whatever your style is. The first one is recognize. And it sounds so simple that it doesn't sound like it can work, but the brain needs simple, right? Yes. Recognize and then remove. do you, what are you recognizing that feels heavy where your emotions are getting stuck? What do you want to remove about that experience? And then replace what do you want to experience and then reimagine. Literally pointing your brain toward the sun. This is what it's going to look like when I am experiencing what I want to feel and say and do and how that connection is in that relationship. speaker-0: Mm hmm. I, I actually was just listening to, um, it wasn't on a podcast. It was a class that I was taking. Um, but he, was a recording and, um, he talks about the, like envisioning, right? Like what, what is your vision for your future? Where are you going to go? What is, what do you picture? And of course this was talking about business at, at, you know, for this. then I started thinking, you know, I am not, I can't separate business from my child, from my family. And so it has to be a bigger picture. It's not just about business. It's for everything. And then sitting down and writing that vision. That's why like, I feel like a lot of people do vision boards, right? In the beginning of the year. So, so that helps. I did it one year and I just, never did it again. I don't know why. But it was, it was great. Like it was great. Um, but yeah, I see what you're saying. Like you have to, you know, you have to do, you have to take care of yourself. um, do you do, um, one to one, is it just a class that you teach? How do you, how do you do this? How do you do this? speaker-1: Yes, sir. Great question. We have a 90 day program that has both a private path and a group path. So first we teach foundational principles. So principles, understanding principles like natural law that I learned in the garden, that's what can create the fastest shift possible because your brain sees things from a different perspective. So we teach the foundation of principles first. And then we go into what are the six basic types of meditations so that they can learn that as a practice and then create those in their own experience. And then we have live weekly sessions with the group. Those that are doing private also do the group because that community learning is so important. You can see that the person that's reflecting their emotions, their processing, they're in this very safe space. So there's both group and private, but it's just amazing being able to see the transformation. When people show up with their intention, I want to work on this today. And I'm doing this spontaneous group session. I can't tell you how amazing it is every single time feeling that flow of just trusting the next thing that comes. I don't read scripts anymore, but just trusting like all of those pieces of the things that they want in that intention get woven in to what I'm seeing in the session. And then it's just amazing that. they actually get the customized experience because they're putting their desire into what they're and thinking. It's incredible. speaker-0: Well, I got a question for you. How do you not fall asleep when you're meditating? When you're a mother? I can't do a penny. I fall asleep within a minute. As soon as it says you relax your body, deep breaths. I'm out for the cat. Like I don't listen. I'm out. I'm asleep. speaker-1: It's okay because your subconscious mind is still absorbing it. Apparently you're in such a high stress mode that anytime you pause to relax, your body's going to need that sleep. That's what you need the most in that moment. You're giving yourself what you need, whether you fall asleep or not, right? So, but just letting yourself learn. And then eventually as you grow in your ability, you're going to be able to stay more in a theta. The deep sleep is the delta down at the bottom, the heaviest, slowest waves. And then right above that is the theta where in that relaxed meditative state, you can recognize and do the four Rs so that you can find whatever emotions you want to work with and transform into what you want to experience. speaker-0: Quick pause here because if today's conversation feels familiar, you don't have to carry it by yourself. Through my work with Special Education Concierge, I support families navigating the many layers that come with raising a complex kid. School, services, systems, and everything in between. If you ever need guidance, clarity, or just a place to start, you can explore resources or book a free call at www.specialeducationconcierge.com. No pressure, just support. Okay, back to the episode. Yeah, I have tried meditation for years and I, I I'll be honest, I've given up. And so I do like my deep breathing and do my stretching at night. And that's kind of how I've been. Cause I don't know. It's crazy. And really, I think that I, I hear that meditating is a practice and it's something that you need to work for. It's you have to learn how to meditate. So anyway, I probably need to do that. need to, I need to try. Yes. But it's not shaming. It's just that I really do want that. have the desire to. Yes, I want it. And I, and just my body, guess, doesn't want it. speaker-1: You're okay Yeah. speaker-0: Or I'm getting what I need. I hadn't thought of that part. So thank you for making that. speaker-1: Yeah. While you're moving and doing all of those things in the way that feels right for you in that moment, you're still in a meditative state because your brain, like when you go through your habits in your morning, like you're in your shower, the reason why people get shower thoughts is because they're in a meditative state. They're doing the things they do automatically so automatically that they don't have to focus on it consciously. And then their back of their mind is like, ⁓ that's a cool idea. So they're like driving. And there's lots of different times that we're in a meditative state that we don't realize. I speaker-0: sleeping. I wake up in the middle of the night, I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, I just and then I'm like, I gotta put it on my phone. And then I stay awake for a little while, because I just opened up the, you know, the blue light. But it's true. I think that even when we're not trying to meditate, I think that we do. And I just don't think that there is. ⁓ It's, it's actually fine, like, in a way tuning. your body and your brain to understand and trust what is coming through your mind. I feel like a lot of the, you know, complex moms, the complex kiddos moms, like we have that intuition. You can call that whatever you want to call it, but we know in our minds that something is good. Something is bad. And you have that intuition that mama got in a way that we call it. And so it's opening that and allowing that to come through. speaker-1: Absolutely. And losing your brain intentionally as a tool, just like you're saying, asking questions is what's coming to mind for me as you're following that intuition. There's one question that you can ask even like as you're going to sleep at night, give you pretend you're the boss and the CEO of your brain and you're giving your brain these instructions. You're okay. I'm going to bed and you're going to go to work to find this answer for me. Here's the answers that you need to find by the time that I wake up. And then your brain is going to, because you're focused on that intention, your brain is going to weave together all the things that you're thinking to find that answer for you. So you do have power to choose it. You can control and there's things that you can do to find that answers and the intuition. And that's the thing that I love is helping people to find those answers inside of themselves. speaker-0: Yeah. And really it is like you're saying fine tuning and it's like, you know, a piano that you have to tune every once in a while. And as parents, just don't take the time to do that. It's too hard. How would you like, I'm thinking about the moms that are listening, right? Besides this, like I know, okay, let's, you know, take our time. Let's think about us. Let's ⁓ do meditations. Let's take our time. Let's not, you know, let's look towards the sun. What is something else that you would want to tell them? speaker-1: I would encourage them to think about three key focuses, either in the morning or the evening, whatever works, or even I sometimes do this with my kids before bed. What went well today? So the three key focuses that we talk about in the community every week is number one, looking at the sun. What helped you to get one step closer, to feel that progress in your body? That's the dopamine hit of making that desired intention come closer. So what went well? What's helping you work toward that desire result? What did you feel? How did school go? Like you're finding what you got toward that desire result. The second thing is looking toward the clouds and recognizing, wow, what was hard today? What happened? And, you know, talking about what that struggle was, how did that make you feel? And what did you believe about yourself in that moment? And how can you shift that perspective to? What did you learn from that? Like something to help them to shift and learn instead of seeing themselves as powerless, instead of seeing themselves as incapable, which is my default, where my brain goes when I automatically fall into the clouds, ⁓ shifting it from the clouds into the one next empowering thought. And then the third key focus is what is your one thing that you want to do tomorrow to move toward where you want, even if it's just a state of calmness. What do you want to do? One next step. So three things, clouds or sun, clouds, then present moment. What is the one next thing? Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, I like that taking taking a step back and actually analyzing your day and and this is so I I've been in medical sales for a long time and this is exactly what we do when you want to succeed in something right? Like what did I do right today? What went great? What did I do wrong? How can I make this better tomorrow? That's exactly how it is. think that there's so much, you know, it's not just on your personal life. It's in everything that you do. Everything that like, you know, I don't know. I think about this is so dumb, but even dinner, right? Like you did dinner tonight and you get dinner like that. That wasn't good. Then tomorrow you're to think about what else you can make. So people like the dinner. Right? It's just in everything in your life, you've got to look at that. Okay. I can do better tomorrow. Um, yeah, the, I agree 100%. Now, um, have you had a lot of moms with complex kiddos come to you? speaker-1: I have some clients definitely that are neurodivergent. I, my husband and you know, some of the clients that I've worked with. ⁓ I try not to overemphasize the limitations that it creates and help them to see why it becomes a superpower. I remember the first time that I experienced hyper-focus in college. I lost touch of the outside world, but man, was I intently focused. And that's not something that I think normal people can experience. So looking at what is good about what you personally can do and how you move through. So ⁓ my personal experience comes from my own child and she was two and four and six and she would not wear. hands and I'm like, what is going on? She would only wear a dress and you know, I was going through my momzilla stage and we would headbutt and fight all the time and I couldn't figure out what was going on. Well, fast forward 20 years, we find out that she's autistic. She doesn't see the world the way she doesn't experience the world the way that I do and we had very different perspectives. So just a lot of compassion for understanding. what you don't know and finding out, okay, there might be something more here to lean into to understand. But I think trying to see the world from her perspective is what has helped me to open more of instead of just seeing from my blind perspective, the blinders on, know. And just recognizing there's more perspectives to life and I can't see it all. And just really being open to listen to her and what her experience is like. speaker-0: Yeah, it's interesting you bring that up because really if you're listening, you probably have a complex kiddo and we do talk about this, right? They, their brains are different. They are wired differently. It doesn't mean that it's, that it's good or bad or whatever. And, but they are different and we're all different. Um, and so I think that empathy. is the word to use when you're looking at somebody else who might be struggling with their regulation or, you know, looking at them in a different light, not as the, you know, the kid who has a thousand behaviors a day or, you know, looking at, you know, them in a different way because they are not doing what it is that you think they should be doing. Yeah. so, you know, we, ⁓ as moms and, and I'm interested to hear, like you said, you found out that your daughter, after a long time that she was autistic, how was that for you? speaker-1: It was an eye-opener for sure. In fact, she's so intelligent. I think she knew before and she had done her own research and she's like, mom, think I'm autistic. so I set up the test for her on her initiative. So her deciding, I think she was about 16 or 17 at the time. But it was just definitely eye-opening. Like, wow. And looking back on that part where she was struggling and I was struggling and just having a lot of compassion like, man, I didn't know, I didn't have a clue. And just really having all of that empathy for that past self has a lot of power to just recognize my hands were somewhat tied because I didn't have the knowledge. So recognizing where we are now and still rebuilding that relationship because of the disconnection from the past and just. you know, keep breathing through it. speaker-0: How was your relationship throughout those years that you didn't know? speaker-1: Man, it was a big, big struggle because I had all of my emotions stuck inside of me. I was going through the whole pinball reactions. I call it my momzilla stage because I was yelling and I was out of control and I was trying to control the kids and my ex-husband, the husband at the time was controlling me and going through all of those things and having no clue like head underwater, full immersion. I didn't understand anything that was happening. And then slowly gaining tools over the past, you know, 15, 20 years and figuring out, ⁓ that's how to regulate emotions. That's what I was experiencing. And now I can look back and see. So our relationship was very strained and headbutting and, you know, complex is a huge appropriate destruction description to say exactly what that was. And even now we're still working on healing and finding ways to connect and Sometimes it feels strained and how I reach out and what I can do to create that relationship. But it's a matter of me asking what I can control and what I can do to show up in my best self and letting go of like I can't control. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. You know, ⁓ just, didn't know my son had a genetic disorder until he was eight years old. And we were searching and searching and searching. And I knew that there was something different than what everybody was telling me that was happening. And so we finally got that diagnosis and it was like, wow. Okay. I have more compassion for him. because I know that it's not him being naughty. It's not him having these behaviors. It's it's his condition. It is how it is. And I need to adapt. Of course, I need to teach him things, but I also need to adapt to him and to, know, as a mom, we need to adapt to them. So we're getting towards the end of the podcast and I always like to ask what is the one thing that you want to tell that you want the moms who are listening to leave with today? speaker-1: I love that question. So I would just invite you when you come to moments of chaos and your world is spinning out of control, come back to the power of your breath. Recognize that any moment you can choose to close your eyes and take three big breaths. If you're driving, don't close your eyes, but take three big breaths. And when you choose to slow your breath down, your thoughts will follow. They will slow down and say to yourself, I am calm. I am safe. I choose to be here. speaker-0: I just felt that piece as you were talking. well Penny, thank you so much for being here. We will include all of your social media, where to find you on the show notes and moms and dads listen, do what she's telling you so you can be well for your children and so they can actually. be in that piece and bring them into that. So thank you for being here, Penny. Thanks everyone. We will catch you next week. Bye. speaker-1: you speaker-0: Before you go, take a deep breath. You don't have to solve everything today. You don't have to have it all figured out. If this episode helped you feel seen, grounded, or a little less alone, make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss future conversations. And if you ever want a deeper support, special education concierge is here when you're ready. One step at a time. one decision at a time. You are your child's hero. I'll see you next time.