Latest / Unstuck Pod / Too Many Leads, Wrong Deals (David Aynes and Jamie Schneiderman)
Transcript
- Jamie: hi Dave. Thanks for joining today. Great to see you. Would you do me a favor, please? Can you tell just a little bit about yourself what you do, Dave Aynes: Hey Jamie. Yeah, man. sure. ⁓ my name is Dave Aynes my company, a couple them, which you're helping me sort of with, primarily one of them, but also both of them. Atlanta Leasing and Investment, we're a commercial real estate brokerage and investment firm in Atlanta. We've been in business for ⁓ 25 years. I took over the company in ⁓ 2012. have doing brokerage ever since. Along the way in the journey, I developed a system for SEO, improving our on our website by blogging about properties essentially. And then we were able to scale that to some degree, which we called CRE Machine and set up another entity around that called CRE Machine that we basically systematized information about properties, kind of this long tail theory that people can find properties and then find us and we can offer them our ⁓ services. So the business got to a point where CRE machine to a point where it's generating a good number of leads, but it was of creating chaos internally in our, call it our CRM or a business flow system. ⁓ And so ⁓ led me to you. Obviously, we knew each other a long time ago. And then I saw you posting on LinkedIn about what you do. And I'm like, man, we're stuck with this. Like I'm at this point, I need to either make this big or like be okay with the fact that I didn't make it big and quit banging my head against the wall. ⁓ that's kind of the intro of what we do and kind of how we got here. Jamie: No, great. And I still remember the call that said, I'm stuck, please. I'm stuck. can you help me get unstuck? it was, ⁓ music my ears. But again, ⁓ I think for me, a, you want to hear what's going on and why you feel that way. And then jump into it. let's talk ⁓ about that, which is Dave Aynes: Yeah. Jamie: Why'd you feel you were stuck? What was frustrating about where you were at? Kind of where were you at with it? And why did you feel like you needed some help to get beyond that? Dave Aynes: Sure. Yeah, sure. So we were generating leads. not great startup founder in the sense I don't have all my KPIs and metrics for you, but let's say, we're generating like 50 leads a month in our market you have to make a lot phone calls our business to find 50 people who want to do business. So this is a valuable thing. We thought like ⁓ we've got 50 people who want to do business. should be able to serve them and make money. ⁓ to some extent we have, like, it the system works. We ⁓ closed deals using the system. However, where the falls apart is sort of like... myriad of things that people can call about. ⁓ property can mean a lot of things. It can be a retail building. It could be a multi-tenant office building. It could be an industrial property with 100,000 square So ⁓ trying to find one size fits all solution for these myriad ⁓ some people wanna buy and build something. we got bogged down was sort of having a ⁓ system that with all of these myriad of needs and then matched them with the right ⁓ agent to execute on real estate deal. So the technology brought lots of people into the top of the funnel. ⁓ And then were having trouble with sort of the... mid part of the funnel and of course the most important, the bottom ⁓ the funnel and ⁓ the deals. And then just a lot of cadence things around that of like, what's the right amount of time to follow up? Like should this be a phone relationship or an email? ⁓ And what were trying to do is systemize the business from end to end and make it more of a digital process. Like I think part of what we learned along the way is that maybe there ⁓ are some parts about business that are just manual. ⁓ And so there wasn't necessarily a technology solution for all of them. the other thing that we realized along the way is ⁓ nature of why people find these certain properties on the internet is of by definition, ⁓ they're small and you drive by them. And when in broker's business for 25 years, you don't want to work on the small properties, like you'd like to move upstream in the market and work on the bigger properties. And so there's sort of this like finding the wrong customers aspect that we felt like was something fundamental that needed to change. Like you can't go chasing small deals in the brokerage business. You'll like burn people out doing that. Your agents will burn out and not make enough money to make a living. Jamie: And yeah, I will tell you that for me, it was quite the crash course in the complexity of commercial real estate, all different pieces that are going on, just how you sort of, think of a lot of people know residential real estate, so they think about it, I don't want to call it cookie cutter, but it's a lot. Dave Aynes: Yeah. Yeah. Jamie: And then you get into commercial real estate like ⁓ boy the complexity of this was just massive like just crazy massive and I had no idea so quite a quite a learning experience and and for me I seen that Okay, so you're there. You've got some stuff ⁓ you alluded to it you're talking about LinkedIn, but what made you know that you you help and why, why me? Why did you think me? I would be good at that time. Dave Aynes: Sure, Well, the things you described in one of the articles read, but ⁓ there was a founder who had, ⁓ and I should refreshed my memory on this, it was a while back now, but the gist of it was like, we're doing all the things that we think we should be doing to grow and we're growing in the right way and Jamie: . Dave Aynes: we're burning up more resources than we're earning. I mean, that's sort of like startup 101. like, you've get profitable basically. And not say that, we're profitable as a brokerage company, but as a technology product, I was having a harder and harder time sort of the energy and the dollars that I was spending on development with respect to getting something out the other side. so a way, there are other ways to develop business, like ⁓ go and the traditional networking stuff. And so I was kind of in this place of like, we better off continuing to pursue this tech thing and growing that to a scalable place. Or are we better off just being like, okay, great, I'm not a technology wizard. I'm gonna go and just focus on ⁓ ⁓ commercial real estate investing, which I've known for 25 and I can do fine, do great even doing that. What brought me to you specifically was just sort of like that inflection point of like, okay, ⁓ know what I'm doing isn't working. I've use an but since Jamie: No. Dave Aynes: I've messed around with this for five years and I haven't gotten there, like quit doing the same thing and expecting different results. So I'm like this guy, I know his background, I know he's And the other thing was like you had worked in a space that was professional services, right? And so the fact you were used to selling ⁓ not only selling to business people from an e-commerce perspective, Jamie: Yeah. Dave Aynes: but also sort of that matchmaking, like with the resumes and the companies hiring and the people who wanting to be hired. We have that same dilemma, if you will, or marketplace. We've got the people who have the property, the people who want the property, and then out how to make them. Yeah, yeah. So there just a lot of things that were pointing to you ⁓ someone who could. Jamie: All right. Dave Aynes: put a special lens on what we've been trying to do. Jamie: So no, I appreciate that. So let's talk a little bit about we started to work together. We went through the ⁓ workshop, right? Around taking a look and digging in on the business. how you feel? So tell me in your mind, ⁓ Did anything change from before we jumped into that to after? If so, how did you think differently about the business? How did it help you move forward from where you had been to where you wanna go going forward? Dave Aynes: Yeah, I mean process and sort of your methodology were very enlightening and taught me things about ways think about what we were doing and that I never really considered before ⁓ and other for like, what are we really doing here and how can we do that? Not 2 times better, but 10 times better. And that's just something that I don't have the background thinking like that. And so that was really eye opening to me of like, okay, there is a X or maybe ⁓ X way to do this, let's figure that out, right? Because that's where you want to be if you can get there, not in the 2x world. So That in a nutshell, ⁓ your process led to a revelation of just what this had the potential to be. As you know, we chose not to pursue it whole hog just for a variety of factors. The one of which is, well, there were two big things. One, I have so much going on in ⁓ brokerage in ⁓ development. gotten spread thin with my time. And the big thing, I just feel like Jamie: Yeah. Dave Aynes: with AI and everything that's changing in software right now. Am I the software leader of the future from a development standpoint? Probably not. And I'm okay with that. ⁓ I really enjoyed the journey and I have these great ideas and they're all documented now. If I want to come back to them ⁓ and I a bunch of deals and have nothing to do, I might pick back up again. I feel like I've got a great jumping off point of how to do it Jamie: ⁓ yeah. Dave Aynes: in a way that really makes a moon launch possible instead of just sort of a trip to Florida. ⁓ in Georgia, so that's not very far. ⁓ Jamie: Yeah, no, for sure. No, and listen, and I think at the time as you were talking it through it, it's like, there's just too much going on. Again, I think a lot of it comes down to focus and the ability to do it and do it well, right. You always want to do it well, and so I don't think your point was, I don't think there's anything here. I think it's, I'm not going to do it properly because I've got too many other things on the go that are going well that I've got to focus on and I can't be everywhere. And that's smart. I think that's good. Dave Aynes: Mm-hmm. Jamie: I just think that's anyway, right? So the goal here isn't to go do this, it's to have overall success. And ⁓ I that's great. So, yeah. ⁓ Dave Aynes: Thanks, man. It was a tough decision in a sense because I felt like there was so much opportunity. But at the same time, it's like, OK, yeah, I've got ⁓ real dollars and real years and real people counting on me and these other avenues. And I've like I've got to go and and tend to ⁓ primary focus. Yeah. Jamie: No, no. And if your primary wasn't going anywhere, then it would be different because then, yeah, I can't do it. But your primary was going. And so I think this ⁓ became a bigger thing. It wasn't just a little add-on. It became this whole other bigger thing, which was good in a lot of ways, but obviously distracting ⁓ against the core. And I think that's fine. Ultimately, those are Dave Aynes: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie: some of the most important decisions, I actually think it's a really good decision that you make to say, I have to focus. I just think so. I just think it's easy go, come on, come on, Dave, why won't you go do this other thing? But it's like, I don't know, like you knew, you know yourself and I think that was good. ⁓ Dave Aynes: Yeah, no, and I've got a family like you do that I want to see in the evenings. And so it's like, can't be an expert at all these three things and be with my family. I should have come on this idea in 2009 when I had no real estate deals happening. That would have been a better time to figure this out. Jamie: Well, and by the way, It's like, problem is I've got too much other business. I can't do this also. Like, okay, well, that's kind of a good problem. Okay. So, it was a great joy to work you. I enjoyed ⁓ I ⁓ loved it. Like I really, I really had a Dave Aynes: Right? Thanks man, we agree. I could tell Drew is a little jealous that you and I were gonna be chatting today and he wasn't part of it. I'm sure he enjoyed it as well. Jamie: No, I was fine. ⁓ Working with you guys is great. I did really enjoy it. think you guys are great. I think you guys were really focused on wanting to turn to do a whole bunch of really good things. And ultimately you made choices and that's great. I think again, I buy into where you are and where you're going. And ⁓ I think good. And again, one day there may come a time where you go, I want to go back to that. Cause I still think it's a big, it's probably is a big idea, but again, it's trade-offs. ⁓ Dave Aynes: Yeah, thanks, man. I mean, I'm glad you feel good about it as well. know ⁓ in your ⁓ it's different in the that like, I'm sure you want projects to take off that you get to work on more. But at the same time, like you want to go to the right place for the person in the company. And so I think, for now, we ended up at the right place. And and and yeah, we'll see what the future brings. And the other great thing about, I feel like we've reestablished networking in a sense and you in the sense you'll come across people who maybe need what I do and I'll come across people who need what you do and I still have a foot in the startup community with service provider capital and see a lot of venture-backed companies that need help and all of that. So I'm excited to keep knowing you and not lose touch for 20 years again. Jamie: I see. No, that would be good. I would prefer that. I thought at some point I was going to end up, I was waiting to say to you, I'm like, I'm going to be in Atlanta. Like I'm actually going to be there. Which if and when I am, I'm going to let you know. yeah, right. The travel is starting, but I'm not all the way ⁓ there yet. just have one question. ⁓ They'll kill me if I don't. So, Dave Aynes: Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Sure, man. Jamie: would you recommend me to others ⁓ if so, ⁓ should somebody work me? ⁓ What it do for them? How would it help them move the needle where they're at? I mean, your words, what do you think? Dave Aynes: I think you don't know what you don't know. And I don't know if Yogi Berra said that or, there's a Donald Rumsfeld quote there that we had a lot of unknown unknowns as it turns out to use Donald Rumsfeld's quote. so, you know, having another set of eyes with with the strategic thought, I was about to say a strategic, but that was a George Bush thing. I'm sounding like a Republican here. Gary. Jamie: That's okay. That's it. ⁓ Dave Aynes: But ⁓ totally sidetracked myself with the jokes, but it was beneficial to have another set of eyes who was in the technology world ⁓ and grown a technology company look at the technology that we had built and where we trying to take it because I thought I a set of problems. like I said, which were really just to get kind of two times better. as it turns out, like there probably was a better way to get a hundred times better. ⁓ I wish I come to you sooner. Like I think that's the only, aspect that I would change about what I did is like, messed around with it on my own, because it was kind of a part, always was a part-time endeavor. It was like, I'm generating. leads and that's kind of part of our business. Like you generate deals and then you go work on the deals and then you close the deals and you got to generate more deals. And so what we built was a great tool for doing that. ⁓ just turned out to be a little messier than than we thought. so, working with you helped us of realize like, OK, you could become the You know the ultimate deals generator right and then that would have opened up a whole nother set of issues to deal with but to go to that place where that was even possible was just a A notion that would have not entered my brain and so yeah, so I really appreciate you kind of getting ⁓ that your excitement through the process palpable. I think you really enjoy what you do and consequently you're good at it and you're into it and and you make it fun along the way because like nobody wants to be doing tps reports particularly you know when they've hired a consultant so it's good to have fun along the way and you're always joking about being hyped up on on caffeine and That's just the nature of your personality. Like, I think you seem like you've had caffeine even if you hadn't, and that's enjoyable. Jamie: Sometimes more so than others, but yes, I try to control myself. There you go. I was like, I was actually thinking about that before we were chatting today. I'm like, okay, can't overdo it with the caffeine before I talk. Too much of that in the past. No, listen, I appreciate it. Thank you. for this. Dave Aynes: Right? ⁓ Right?