Latest / Three Rebel Souls / Episode 16 - Helpers have a hard time asking for help

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Episode 16 - Helpers have a hard time asking for help · Three Rebel Souls

• 1:33
  Hello, my friends.
• 1:35
  Hello.
• 1:36
  Hello.
• 1:38
  Hey, where's Mrs.
• 1:39
  Doubtfire today?
• 1:40
  Hello.
• 1:44
  Did our little clacky.
• 1:46
  How are we feeling today?
• 1:49
  I have little butterflies over this one.
• 1:51
  In general, fine about recording this episode.
• 1:56
  Lots of nervous anxiety.
• 2:01
  Yeah.
• 2:02
  I don't know.
• 2:02
  I feel like I feel that way about all of them.
• 2:04
  And then once we're into them, I'm good, you know, I start to relax.
• 2:08
  But initially I'm like,.
• 2:14
  Yep, so we'll see.
• 2:16
  We'll see.
• 2:17
  I mean, let's just try to have some fun like we always do, little general while we talk about hard things.
• 2:24
  Nothing says we have to release it anyway.
• 2:25
  Right?
• 2:26
  Right,.
• 2:29
  Exactly.
• 2:29
  If you're hearing this, consider yourself lucky.
• 2:31
  We actually decided to release it.
• 2:36
  So this one is bringing some things up for all of us in real time, which is why we decided to put it into our, like, rotation of topics.
• 2:47
  Because this is what we.
• 2:49
  Like, this is part of our big goal here, is because it's not.
• 2:52
  It's not done.
• 2:53
  These things keep popping up in our lives no matter how much we try to, you know, work through them, talk about the them, and the more we do that, the more progress we notice.
• 3:04
  But these things are still showing up.
• 3:06
  So here we are in real time, talking about the stuff that's coming up.
• 3:11
  And today for us, the thing that has been coming up a lot is asking for help.
• 3:18
  This one's very uncomfortable for all of us to sit with.
• 3:25
  Um, we are all givers and deeply empathic people who will help immediately.
• 3:33
  We give help generously, but we all have a really hard time asking for or receiving help.
• 3:42
  So here we go.
• 3:49
  Where is this showing up for you guys right now?
• 3:53
  This, like, ease of, like.
• 3:56
  I'm sure you can think of a lot of examples where you've had a really easy time giving in recent history, but where are you having a hard time asking for help?
• 4:07
  You can start with the easy step if you want to.
• 4:10
  How do we give easily?
• 4:14
  Well, asking.
• 4:16
  I.
• 4:16
  I mean, I.
• 4:17
  I say that right now.
• 4:19
  The hardest.
• 4:20
  The hardest part for me to ask for help right now is with going through.
• 4:25
  Through this.
• 4:25
  Right.
• 4:26
  With the podcast or Cooler or whatever.
• 4:29
  You know, it's the.
• 4:33
  I do feel pressure to, like, I have.
• 4:36
  I think I.
• 4:36
  I talked about this a little bit with the perfectionism, right, because it kind of has a little bit to do with that, too.
• 4:42
  Like that I have to know how to do something, and.
• 4:48
  And.
• 4:48
  Or the other part, too, is that.
• 4:50
  That I have to try, but I get so paralyzed by it, and then I.
• 4:54
  I'm.
• 4:55
  It's hard to ask for help, because it's so.
• 4:59
  I feel so vulnerable asking for help.
• 5:02
  And so.
• 5:04
  But I have.
• 5:04
  I do have to admit that it's easier than it's ever been.
• 5:10
  At the same time, it's easier than it's ever been because I could never ask for help when I was younger.
• 5:15
  You know?
• 5:16
  Like, I feel like after cultivating these new friendships and creating those safe spaces, I feel safer in asking for help.
• 5:31
  And I don't feel like I'm dumb or whatever, because I.
• 5:34
  I have people, right?
• 5:35
  Like, you need givers.
• 5:36
  Like, you're talking about being a giver, right?
• 5:37
  So found other givers who are happy to.
• 5:41
  To help.
• 5:42
  So it's still uncomfortable, but I do feel a little more.
• 5:48
  I feel like it's easier than it has been because I know that the people that I'm going and asking for help from want to help me, right?
• 6:01
  Like, they want to.
• 6:02
  They want to see me get better, right?
• 6:06
  See me achieve what I want to achieve.
• 6:09
  Right.
• 6:09
  And learn what I want to learn.
• 6:11
  So right now, I mean, I would say that's probably the.
• 6:15
  The hardest part for me is getting into doing something that I have absolutely no clue about and then doing it, even even though I'm uncomfortable just asking.
• 6:30
  Yeah.
• 6:31
  Okay.
• 6:34
  Yeah.
• 6:35
  Thanks.
• 6:35
  Thanks for sharing.
• 6:37
  Yeah, thank you, Sloan.
• 6:39
  I think for me, it's.
• 6:43
  Depends on the level of effort and cost, right?
• 6:49
  So if the level of effort and cost, whether it's time or money or whatever, is low, then it's very easy, right?
• 6:58
  Like, hey, can you help me figure this thing out?
• 7:01
  Especially if I know the other person either knows it really well or is also learning because they're also learning.
• 7:08
  That's like a double bonus to me because we're both learning now together, rather than.
• 7:13
  But, you know, the higher that goes, the more difficult it becomes.
• 7:22
  Yeah, that makes sense.
• 7:24
  That's fair.
• 7:26
  Or if.
• 7:26
  If it's something I think I should be able to handle by myself.
• 7:33
  Well, if we go back to the conversation, imperfectionism in my silly little brain, that's everything, right?
• 7:40
  Like, that's how I should be able to figure this out.
• 7:43
  I should.
• 7:43
  Like, I'm smart, I'm capable.
• 7:45
  I know that I can read a bunch of articles or watch a bunch of YouTube videos or whatever.
• 7:50
  Like, I can figure this out.
• 7:51
  Even if it takes me longer, I'm capable of doing this.
• 7:55
  So I shouldn't have to ask anyone for help or Google, right?
• 8:00
  Let me Google this.
• 8:01
  I do that all the time.
• 8:02
  Yeah, let me Google that.
• 8:04
  Like, I don't know how to do Something on the computer.
• 8:07
  I'm gonna Google it first, and then I'm gonna learn how to do it.
• 8:11
  And I've gotten a lot better with that because working with the people I work with.
• 8:15
  Right.
• 8:16
  Like observing their kind of culture.
• 8:20
  Well.
• 8:21
  But even seeing it from the outside and then knowing that I am guilty of the same behavior.
• 8:29
  Like, and how much time did you spend trying to figure this out on your own rather than asking for help?
• 8:37
  I don't know, like a day.
• 8:39
  Yeah.
• 8:40
  Torture could have just reached out and it would have taken maybe.
• 8:45
  Yeah.
• 8:47
  Minutes.
• 8:47
  Right.
• 8:48
  Like, so at what point?
• 8:50
  And I've literally said this to my teams, like, I'm going to challenge you and myself.
• 9:00
  What's the time limit that you're going to give yourself?
• 9:04
  Oh, try on your own before you say, I'm going to ask for help.
• 9:10
  That's a great question.
• 9:13
  Like, what.
• 9:13
  And even if it's not a time limit thing, because it's like a specific task, but it's like, what are your thresholds?
• 9:22
  Right.
• 9:24
  Because at some point you're just wasting time in my.
• 9:27
  For me, that's what I'm.
• 9:30
  I know about myself.
• 9:31
  Right.
• 9:32
  And to your point, what the thing you said at the beginning was, it depends on the effort and cost.
• 9:41
  Right.
• 9:41
  The longer I let it go, the more effort and the higher the cost.
• 9:45
  Right.
• 9:46
  To, like, bounce back from whatever it is.
• 9:49
  So what is the threshold where, you know, the effort and the cost is still low, that it feels less challenging for me to make that ask.
• 10:02
  Right.
• 10:04
  And I like that in the workplace context.
• 10:06
  I wish more workplaces were set up like that, with that sort of culture of feedback and curiosity and, like, collaboration.
• 10:13
  That's not always the case.
• 10:14
  Some workplaces are super competitive.
• 10:16
  Of course, I've definitely worked in both.
• 10:20
  Obviously prefer the collaboration and, like, the teamwork much better.
• 10:24
  Like, we do like, a weekly call where the sole purpose of the call is, like, bring your challenges that you're having and we will talk through them as a team.
• 10:33
  And I get the benefit of, like, the perspectives of six really smart people on my team looking at a problem I've been looking at for a week from a different angle and giving me new ideas, and then we
• 10:45
  all go away and tackle our stuff on our own.
• 10:48
  But it's so, like, wonderful that everyone in our organization, right up to founder and CEO, comes to that call with issues and asks for feedback.
• 11:01
  Right.
• 11:01
  Like, so it's.
• 11:02
  It's nice to be in that kind of, like, collaborative culture.
• 11:05
  And it makes it a lot easier to ask for help or even to say, like, hey, I think I had a really shit coaching call this week.
• 11:12
  Can you watch my recording and tell me what you would have done differently?
• 11:16
  Right.
• 11:16
  Like, to be able to ask those things is.
• 11:19
  Is awesome.
• 11:20
  We.
• 11:20
  We don't always get that.
• 11:22
  And I.
• 11:23
  So, like, even in the context of life, I'm curious, like, because I'm sure we've all spent a ridiculous amount of time reflecting on why it's so hard for us to ask for help when we so easily will give
• 11:37
  help to other people.
• 11:40
  What is the.
• 11:42
  What is the story you tell yourself about what it means when you have to ask for help?
• 11:49
  A bother.
• 11:51
  Like you're bothering.
• 11:52
  You're a bother.
• 11:53
  You're a burden.
• 11:53
  Like I'm.
• 11:54
  Yeah, like I'm bothering someone.
• 11:56
  Right.
• 11:56
  Like, it's always the.
• 11:58
  What?
• 11:58
  They're busy.
• 11:59
  They got stuff going on.
• 12:00
  Right.
• 12:00
  And so.
• 12:03
  Yeah.
• 12:04
  Or, I mean, I feel like there's several.
• 12:06
  I feel like it's.
• 12:07
  That it's, you know, I should be able to do it on my own too.
• 12:12
  Right?
• 12:13
  That's.
• 12:14
  That's another one.
• 12:17
  And I feel that comes from having been like, the strong one all the time.
• 12:23
  And I want to say take charge, but it was.
• 12:28
  It was in a different sense.
• 12:29
  We've talked about before in past episodes where, you know, I would involved in the chaos in my house, right.
• 12:37
  So.
• 12:38
  But I, you know, from 12 till into adulthood, where if there was a problem, I would be in the middle of it, trying to, you know, defend or whatever, but still.
• 12:51
  So I feel like because of that, I was looked at as like, the strong one, the dependable one, and no one really ever took the time to see if I needed something.
• 13:06
  So I think that even though no one said, hey, you can do it alone, do it yourself.
• 13:11
  I think it was by not asking me, by not being taken care of or taken care of my needs, I felt like I couldn't ask.
• 13:22
  I feel like that's really where it originates from not being able to ask or even, you know, as a kid, you're wanting something, whatever, and you're told, you know, you're annoying, stop.
• 13:32
  Or whatever.
• 13:33
  Yeah.
• 13:34
  And so dismissed.
• 13:37
  Yeah, totally.
• 13:38
  Yeah, you're being dismissed.
• 13:39
  So you're like, okay, so not safe to go there.
• 13:42
  It's not safe to ask.
• 13:44
  So figure it out on my own.
• 13:46
  Or just swallow it again.
• 13:47
  It's the.
• 13:48
  Like, you should be like, you can figure this out.
• 13:50
  And I like.
• 13:51
  And there's a difference between that being, like, empowering and that being dismissive.
• 13:56
  Right.
• 13:56
  Like, at some point, if I'm still asking for help, it crosses the threshold into being, like, dismissive.
• 14:03
  Even if I've tried.
• 14:05
  It's like the.
• 14:05
  Like, the rule now is you have to try at least three things.
• 14:09
  Or, like, you know, before you come ask for me, ask me for help.
• 14:13
  That's the rule in our house.
• 14:16
  But it's because it's like, you know, make it.
• 14:19
  Make a real effort before you just look for the easy answer, the easy way out.
• 14:24
  Because it's teaching, like, problem solving, critical thinking.
• 14:27
  But there's also.
• 14:29
  There's a limit to that.
• 14:30
  Right.
• 14:31
  Like, so.
• 14:33
  But the other thing that you just said that was like, was I always notice.
• 14:39
  And I think it's like you.
• 14:40
  Like, I always notice when someone else needs something.
• 14:45
  Yeah.
• 14:46
  And sometimes I offer it or give it without being asked because.
• 14:52
  But that's born of the hyper vigilance that we've talked about in past episodes.
• 14:57
  Right.
• 14:57
  Where we're like.
• 14:58
  And the empathy.
• 14:58
  Right.
• 14:59
  Because you sense it.
• 15:00
  You.
• 15:00
  You know, you soak up.
• 15:01
  You know, you sense what they're feeling because you've been there.
• 15:04
  Yes, exactly.
• 15:06
  So it's like I.
• 15:07
  Like, all of my spidey senses are tingling, and I know you need something, and I'm just gonna go ahead and offer it before you even have a chance to ask.
• 15:15
  Right.
• 15:15
  And so I think it was always hard for me to not have that reciprocated because there were times where I felt like the people who know and love me best should have a pretty good understanding of what I
• 15:30
  need.
• 15:30
  Right.
• 15:31
  But now wiser me in retrospect is like, I didn't even know me.
• 15:37
  I didn't even know what I needed or what I wanted.
• 15:39
  Right.
• 15:39
  Like, how could I expect anyone else to?
• 15:41
  Number one.
• 15:42
  But number two, one of the.
• 15:44
  I mean, I think we talked about this already, but the quote that I always come back to is, stop expecting you from everybody else.
• 15:51
  Yeah.
• 15:52
  Just because I would do it doesn't mean that that's something that necessarily intuitive or comes naturally to everyone.
• 15:58
  And that's okay.
• 15:59
  That's not a.
• 15:59
  That's not a.
• 16:00
  Like, that's not a dis on everybody else.
• 16:03
  That's not a dig.
• 16:04
  But I.
• 16:06
  But I was like, oh, like, the way that I see the world is just different than the way other people see the world.
• 16:11
  And that's okay.
• 16:11
  Like, we all have different perspectives.
• 16:14
  But I think, like, reframing it in my mind was like.
• 16:17
  Because I think the story I used to tell myself was like, they're not offering help because they don't like you, or they're not offering help because they don't matter.
• 16:26
  They don't.
• 16:27
  Exactly.
• 16:28
  Yeah.
• 16:28
  And it's.
• 16:28
  And it's not that at all.
• 16:30
  Yeah.
• 16:31
  Did you.
• 16:31
  Did you ever.
• 16:32
  Did you ever sometimes, like, hope, though, that someone would just offer it to you, just anticipate without you having to ask?
• 16:39
  Yeah, exactly.
• 16:40
  Yeah.
• 16:41
  Like, don't make me do the hard thing and ask.
• 16:44
  Don't make me be vulnerable.
• 16:46
  Just anticipate all my needs.
• 16:47
  Thank you very much.
• 16:48
  That would be great.
• 16:50
  Yeah.
• 16:52
  You know, another thing that just popped up in my head, too, is the fact that my mom didn't speak English.
• 16:59
  Right.
• 17:00
  And so, well, neither of my parents did, so it was hard to even.
• 17:07
  I couldn't even ask for help.
• 17:08
  Let's say, if I needed help with school, how was I going to get help from school?
• 17:11
  Right?
• 17:12
  Like, I.
• 17:13
  She couldn't help me do my homework.
• 17:15
  It was just do your homework.
• 17:16
  So I could get away with anything I wanted because she couldn't check it.
• 17:21
  She didn't know.
• 17:22
  She just trusted that whatever I told her or whatever she was signing was, you know?
• 17:29
  But I feel like, you know, that also played a part in it of, like, you know, things that she couldn't help with that I just learned.
• 17:40
  I couldn't go.
• 17:41
  If you can't go to the people you're supposed to trust the most, then, you know, I just couldn't go to.
• 17:46
  Anybody who's, like, literal purpose is to support you and.
• 17:49
  Right.
• 17:50
  Grow and develop.
• 17:54
  Okay.
• 17:55
  What.
• 17:55
  What's the story you're telling yourself, Sloan?
• 18:02
  The first thing probably is.
• 18:06
  Or rather the oldest learned thing.
• 18:10
  Is that similar to what you said, Both of you said, is that asking wouldn't change anything because I wouldn't.
• 18:26
  Nothing would be given.
• 18:30
  Yeah.
• 18:32
  Which feels like rejection, too, right?
• 18:34
  It does.
• 18:35
  And going back to our rejection sensitivity and.
• 18:39
  Yes.
• 18:40
  Rejection, like, from childhood.
• 18:42
  Absolutely.
• 18:44
  When you ask your parents for help and they say no, that feels like rejection and unworthy to me.
• 18:57
  Bigger story.
• 18:58
  We'll get to that with dads.
• 19:00
  But.
• 19:03
  But, like, then I think about things, like, even more recent, like, my brother passed away, and, I mean, I was a wreck, like, a total disaster.
• 19:18
  And people were like, what can I do?
• 19:22
  How can I help you?
• 19:23
  And I'm like, mow my lawn.
• 19:25
  Like, I literally.
• 19:26
  I'm like, that.
• 19:27
  That would help me a lot because it takes, like, four hours to mow my lawn.
• 19:32
  Nobody mowed my lawn.
• 19:34
  Like, I.
• 19:35
  I still had to do a.
• 19:36
  Oh.
• 19:36
  I still had to take care of everything.
• 19:38
  Do you know what I mean?
• 19:39
  So it's like, to me, it Might look like hyper independence, but it, it was actually.
• 19:49
  That's how I was trained.
• 19:51
  This is not my natural state.
• 19:53
  My natural state is to receive like.
• 19:56
  And that's the flip side of it.
• 19:58
  The story, the other side of the story is when I do receive things, that's me being selfish.
• 20:06
  Ooh.
• 20:08
  Yeah.
• 20:09
  Because I have been told in, not explicitly I've been shown the story that I am not worthy.
• 20:19
  So if I do receive something, I'm selfish and unworthy because I'm hyper capable so I can take care of everything.
• 20:31
  Right.
• 20:32
  Well.
• 20:33
  And so I wonder like, because I think, I think there was also another theme and this came up when we were reading Untamed again, our world Glennon, talking about like the, the mothers who were martyrs who like sacrificed
• 20:50
  and you know, did everything for everyone, always took care of other people first.
• 20:55
  And like, that's what we were modeled because.
• 20:58
  Absolutely, like there was the, the martyr generation of motherhood.
• 21:02
  That, that's what we were modeled.
• 21:03
  That's women's role is to take care of everyone else.
• 21:07
  And, and for me, like, I almost feel like similar when we were talking about perfectionism and I was talking about the like, performance and like the praise that came with a job well done.
• 21:24
  Right.
• 21:25
  Whatever it was, whether it was in sports or school or work or whatever like that, that there's something similar to the gratitude you get when you help someone.
• 21:40
  Right.
• 21:40
  Like, it's.
• 21:41
  That it's.
• 21:42
  It's like positive reinforcement and praise and that feels good, right?
• 21:46
  Like it feels good to help people genuinely.
• 21:48
  Yeah.
• 21:49
  Not.
• 21:49
  Not even for selfish reasons, but like it just.
• 21:51
  I mean not.
• 21:53
  Not with the expectation that that good is going to be returned to you.
• 21:57
  Right.
• 21:57
  Like, that's never my expectation.
• 21:59
  But it feels good to help someone when they need something.
• 22:03
  To be of service.
• 22:04
  To be of service.
• 22:06
  We are all like very.
• 22:07
  I mean we've all chose like serving professions and with like very service oriented people.
• 22:13
  But I guess where, like where I'm trying to go with that is I.
• 22:20
  I read once and it made me really uncomfortable.
• 22:22
  So there might be some truth to it that like sometimes we don't ask for help because we are subconsciously judging people who need help.
• 22:38
  So like, I'm happy to give help, but that there's some sort of like hierarchy between the helper and the receiver and that asking for help would kind of make me feel less than for needing help.
• 22:54
  But I think that's kind of connected to what you were saying, Sloan, with like the hyper independence.
• 22:58
  We were taught to be able to like, be self Sufficient to not need anyone to take care of everyone else.
• 23:03
  Right.
• 23:05
  And I.
• 23:05
  I think there's probably something to unpack there in, like, I.
• 23:11
  I'm probably judging myself a lot for needing help, but I'm also concerned that I'm going to either be rejected or judged for needing help and that it somehow, like, knocks me down a peg.
• 23:24
  Do you know what I mean?
• 23:27
  Yeah.
• 23:29
  No, I'm absolutely judging myself.
• 23:33
  Yeah.
• 23:33
  100%.
• 23:34
  Yeah.
• 23:37
  Because then the next thing that comes, when we do finally make the ask, I'm gonna go back to what you said earlier, Adriana, because it.
• 23:44
  It, like, also stuck with me.
• 23:46
  You were so quick to say I'm a burden.
• 23:48
  Yeah.
• 23:49
  Right.
• 23:50
  So how do we ask for help then when it.
• 23:53
  When it finally comes time to ask for help?
• 23:56
  Hey, if it's not too much trouble.
• 23:59
  Yeah.
• 23:59
  Could you maybe.
• 24:00
  But, like, no worries.
• 24:01
  If you can't, don't worry.
• 24:02
  Don't even.
• 24:03
  You apologize about it.
• 24:04
  Yeah.
• 24:05
  Yes.
• 24:05
  Like, we over explain.
• 24:07
  We, like, tiptoe around it.
• 24:09
  We're like, maybe, but, like, also, don't worry.
• 24:12
  Like, but also.
• 24:13
  And if you can, it's okay.
• 24:14
  Yeah, it's totally fine.
• 24:15
  It's totally fine.
• 24:16
  I'll figure it out.
• 24:18
  Right.
• 24:18
  We do this, like, half ask that, like, that just dances around, like, articulating our needs to someone who, like, theoretically, if we've made that ask, this is a person in front of us that cares about us.
• 24:33
  Right.
• 24:33
  Like, so why do we do that?
• 24:36
  It's so vulnerable.
• 24:37
  You're so vulnerable in that moment.
• 24:40
  It is vulnerable.
• 24:41
  It's okay if you reject me.
• 24:43
  Yeah.
• 24:44
  No hard feeling, right?
• 24:45
  Yeah.
• 24:46
  It's totally fine.
• 24:47
  Yeah.
• 24:47
  You're afraid of those responses from the past.
• 24:51
  Yeah.
• 24:53
  Right.
• 24:55
  I feel, though, I.
• 24:57
  There's a little.
• 24:58
  I feel like there's a little bit of codependency as well with wanting to help and being the helper.
• 25:04
  Because it feels good.
• 25:06
  Right.
• 25:06
  So it's almost like.
• 25:10
  I feel good.
• 25:11
  Right.
• 25:11
  Right.
• 25:12
  Well, because.
• 25:13
  Right.
• 25:13
  It feels good to be needed.
• 25:14
  Right.
• 25:15
  So it's almost like a codependence thing, too, that need me, need me, need me.
• 25:19
  Right.
• 25:20
  Because it's like you're getting your worth from being needed because maybe, obviously you didn't get it somewhere else.
• 25:27
  Right.
• 25:28
  Or where you were supposed to.
• 25:29
  Right.
• 25:29
  Your needs weren't met.
• 25:30
  So if someone needs you, it makes you feel good.
• 25:35
  And it's not so much about the help that you're actually giving someone, but about what you're getting from it.
• 25:43
  I think that used to be true for me, and I think I Have reframed some of that, but a huge part of it was like, the.
• 25:55
  I mean, maybe this ties into, like, our value of sovereignty.
• 25:58
  Because I think the more I understood myself, my values and my needs, like, articulating that for me helped me notice where my generosity was.
• 26:15
  Maybe being taken advantage of.
• 26:18
  Yep.
• 26:19
  Right.
• 26:19
  Or being.
• 26:19
  Or being abused.
• 26:20
  And so it changed the way I viewed giving and receiving.
• 26:27
  Like asking for help or.
• 26:28
  Or giving and receiving.
• 26:30
  And I think it's made me a bit more discerning.
• 26:32
  But that.
• 26:32
  I mean, a hundred percent, that used to be true for me.
• 26:35
  Like, it felt good to be needed because that felt like fitting in or love or belonging or whatever version you know, that was.
• 26:44
  Even if it meant I had sacrificed so much for that little sliver of fitting in for just a moment.
• 26:54
  You know what I mean?
• 26:56
  That little sliver of acceptance and.
• 26:58
  And love and gratitude that I got for helping or going above and beyond.
• 27:05
  Yeah.
• 27:06
  This one's really making me think.
• 27:11
  We.
• 27:12
  We made the sag quiet.
• 27:15
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  Seriously.
• 27:22
  Yeah, it's.
• 27:23
  I feel like it's.
• 27:24
  It's hard because it.
• 27:25
  I've been such a giver for most of my life that it's only been in recent years, like you said, Erica, that I'm really looking at.
• 27:33
  At what it really means to give and to receive.
• 27:36
  Right.
• 27:36
  And that's.
• 27:37
  I don't always have to give.
• 27:38
  Right.
• 27:39
  And it's okay to not give all the time or to, you know, and I mean, selective.
• 27:48
  Yeah.
• 27:49
  Always say yes.
• 27:50
  Yeah, exactly.
• 27:51
  Like, you can say no.
• 27:52
  Yeah.
• 27:52
  I feel, like, be more protective of my time and my energy.
• 27:57
  Well, it's kind of like when someone asks or when you, you know, again, you know, another part asking for help and then feeling like if that person ever asks you for help, you have to say yes.
• 28:13
  Yes.
• 28:14
  Oh, that's like the toxic side of reciprocity.
• 28:17
  Yeah.
• 28:18
  The.
• 28:18
  The keeping score.
• 28:21
  Right.
• 28:21
  And you don't have to say yes everything because someone helped you with something.
• 28:24
  Right.
• 28:24
  Because you're supposed to doing it without expectations.
• 28:27
  Right.
• 28:27
  Like, without expecting something in return.
• 28:29
  But my.
• 28:31
  My reframe around that.
• 28:33
  And what I've tried to, like, instill in a few folks that I have talked to and had conversations about this even outside of, like, our little circle is like, I.
• 28:43
  Because I've had a few people say things like that, right?
• 28:46
  Like where I've given a free coaching session to someone or like, tried to.
• 28:51
  Tried to, like, be a support system for someone or, like, mentor, like, give my time.
• 28:55
  Like, I even have a call next week where someone was like, hey, can I just take your brain for, like, 30 minutes about what you did when you first started your business?
• 29:02
  Yeah, I'll give 30 minutes.
• 29:03
  No problem.
• 29:04
  Like, but I feel like there's.
• 29:09
  I am giving that without any expectation that that specific person is going to return anything to me.
• 29:17
  I give, like, knowing that reciprocity could come anytime, from any direction, from, like, anywhere in the universe in my moment of need.
• 29:30
  Right.
• 29:30
  Like, reciprocity is God.
• 29:33
  Oh, I just had a flashback to this workshop we did in Kula Stacy.
• 29:40
  Oh.
• 29:40
  Where you said.
• 29:43
  Where you were talking about reciprocity and how it's like, asking for help or receiving is an act of generosity because you give someone else the opportunity to be a helper, and it feels good to help people.
• 30:02
  And then you also.
• 30:04
  You said something about, like, the swirl.
• 30:06
  What did.
• 30:07
  Do you remember what you said?
• 30:08
  I know.
• 30:08
  That was, like, years ago.
• 30:10
  Like, it's energy or like a.
• 30:12
  You know, like they say about money.
• 30:14
  Right.
• 30:14
  It's supposed to be in motion.
• 30:17
  It's not emotion when you.
• 30:20
  When anyone just always giving it.
• 30:24
  It's always going out.
• 30:26
  There's nothing coming in.
• 30:28
  And I think at the time, you were like, I don't receive, like.
• 30:35
  And I'm like, okay, but you're stopping that flow.
• 30:38
  Right.
• 30:39
  You're blocking one way.
• 30:41
  Yeah.
• 30:42
  Many different directions.
• 30:43
  I was leading that workshop, and I.
• 30:46
  In that moment, I was like, I'm done.
• 30:47
  You teach.
• 30:48
  You do the thing.
• 30:50
  Because that was a mic drop moment.
• 30:52
  Yeah.
• 30:53
  That was good.
• 30:53
  And that.
• 30:54
  That totally broke my brain.
• 30:56
  But it's.
• 30:57
  It's true.
• 30:57
  Right.
• 30:58
  Like, everything is energy.
• 31:01
  Right.
• 31:02
  Asking for help and receiving help.
• 31:04
  That's energy.
• 31:04
  That's an equal exchange.
• 31:06
  But it's not always going to come from the same place.
• 31:09
  Right.
• 31:10
  You're not always going to receive from the same place that you gave.
• 31:13
  But everything is always in motion and everything is always moving.
• 31:17
  Yeah.
• 31:20
  You know, but I feel like you have the people who aren't doing the work so aren't so aware.
• 31:26
  Right.
• 31:26
  And so, of course, they feel that if they did something for you, then it's kind of like, oh, well, you know, I have to.
• 31:32
  I have that card in my back pocket, and I can play it whenever I need to.
• 31:35
  Right.
• 31:36
  And like, now you owe me something because I helped.
• 31:39
  Let me know when you're going to call in the favor.
• 31:41
  I have an eye on you.
• 31:42
  Right.
• 31:44
  You can lay down whatever card you want.
• 31:45
  That doesn't mean I'm playing the game.
• 31:48
  This is I.
• 31:48
  Right.
• 31:49
  But I think that's also been difficult.
• 31:50
  Right.
• 31:51
  Because you feel.
• 31:52
  Right.
• 31:52
  It's been the.
• 31:52
  It's been kind of like we've been kind of conditioned to believe that way too, right?
• 31:58
  That, like, if someone does something for you, like.
• 32:00
  Well, I mean, think about it.
• 32:02
  Like, even a parent would be like, oh, but they helped you walk your bike back.
• 32:06
  You have to help them.
• 32:07
  But I don't want to do that thing.
• 32:08
  But they helped you bring your bike back.
• 32:10
  You have to help them.
• 32:12
  You know what I mean?
• 32:14
  Oh, did you ever get the.
• 32:16
  For all the things I do for you?
• 32:18
  Oh, Lord, yeah.
• 32:20
  The guilt trip.
• 32:20
  Of course, yes.
• 32:21
  So many.
• 32:24
  But to your point, this is the part that I struggle with the most, right?
• 32:29
  Like, because my current situation is I.
• 32:33
  May or may not have just found the root of my trauma around asking for help.
• 32:37
  I don't.
• 32:37
  I don't know if I ever made that connection before.
• 32:40
  Sorry to interrupt you, Sloan.
• 32:41
  You thought, yeah, go.
• 32:44
  And then I'll change because mine's in a different direction.
• 32:48
  That's it.
• 32:48
  I was like, oh, shit.
• 32:49
  Of all the.
• 32:50
  For all the things I've done for guilt.
• 32:53
  Yeah.
• 32:54
  I.
• 32:55
  Asking for help made me feel guilty.
• 32:58
  Asking for things I needed made me feel guilty always.
• 33:01
  Or shame.
• 33:02
  Like, even beyond shame.
• 33:04
  Like, not what I did was bad, but that I was bad for asking.
• 33:08
  God, yes.
• 33:10
  Okay, go ahead, Sloan, over to you, please.
• 33:15
  But that's.
• 33:16
  So what.
• 33:17
  What you.
• 33:17
  What we were just talking about is like the reciprocity piece.
• 33:22
  That, to me is like the cost effort equation, right?
• 33:29
  Like, so my current situation, right.
• 33:33
  Just got divorced, 30 year marriage, lived in my house for 15 years, acquired many, many, many things.
• 33:44
  I have a boat.
• 33:45
  Like a boatloads.
• 33:48
  Putting it mildly.
• 33:49
  I have approximately three houses in this house that I need to get rid of.
• 33:55
  And asking people to come help me do this is like, there's nothing I could ever give you of equal worth or value to the time, effort and cost.
• 34:11
  Like, actual monetary costs.
• 34:14
  It's going to require for you to do that.
• 34:18
  That would weigh the scales evenly.
• 34:22
  I respectfully disagree.
• 34:28
  I mean, I think you've already given it in ways that you can't even measure or that you aren't even aware of, which is why it's so easy for the two of us to be like, tell me when to
• 34:39
  book a plane ticket.
• 34:41
  I'm there, babe.
• 34:46
  Super uncomfortable.
• 34:50
  Yeah, like, super uncomfortable.
• 34:55
  Like, twitch.
• 34:56
  Fact that I'm not crying yet is progress because every time we talk about this, I just cry.
• 35:03
  It is way too emotional.
• 35:06
  So let me ask you something.
• 35:07
  If.
• 35:08
  If you did ask, right?
• 35:09
  Like, did you, like, you you had the thought and I'm gonna ask and said no.
• 35:16
  Like, how would you feel?
• 35:19
  Fine.
• 35:20
  I feel like.
• 35:21
  Okay.
• 35:24
  Well, not.
• 35:25
  Not totally, I'm sure.
• 35:26
  Because you wanted to help.
• 35:27
  No, I would be.
• 35:28
  I would be.
• 35:30
  Yes.
• 35:31
  Because then I would not have to worry about it.
• 35:35
  But then you wouldn't feel indebted, is what it is.
• 35:38
  Yes, but there's so much more to it that's even more than just asking for help.
• 35:42
  It's about all of the things.
• 35:45
  So that's just the.
• 35:48
  To be clear, we've been talking about.
• 35:51
  Adriana and Eric have been talking about coming here to help me, and I have never once asked them to do that.
• 35:59
  Still not asked, because.
• 36:04
  Yeah, that's true.
• 36:05
  You've never uttered the words.
• 36:06
  No, no, I've just.
• 36:08
  I've.
• 36:09
  I've.
• 36:09
  I've not.
• 36:10
  I don't even know if I've asked.
• 36:12
  I've asked it in the form of a question.
• 36:14
  I've.
• 36:14
  I've more given you a statement.
• 36:17
  Yes.
• 36:18
  Tell me when to book my plane ticket and I'll be there.
• 36:21
  You've offered yourself.
• 36:22
  Yeah, I know.
• 36:26
  I'm not even giving.
• 36:27
  Probably because you say no.
• 36:29
  If you asked me, my answer might be no.
• 36:33
  Right.
• 36:33
  I'm not even giving you the opportunity to say no.
• 36:35
  Exactly.
• 36:36
  Exactly.
• 36:37
  Because.
• 36:40
  Yes.
• 36:41
  Yes.
• 36:42
  So uncomfortable.
• 36:45
  Yeah.
• 36:46
  So vulnerable.
• 36:48
  It is vulnerable.
• 36:49
  It.
• 36:50
  That's.
• 36:51
  I mean, that's what's at the bottom of it.
• 36:52
  Right.
• 36:52
  Because again, going back to this idea of asking for help, there was guilt and shame when we asked, because we are supposed to be independent.
• 37:02
  We are supposed to be, you know, the person that helped everybody else.
• 37:08
  The givers.
• 37:09
  The givers.
• 37:09
  The givers.
• 37:10
  And there's a lot of unlearning that still needs to happen.
• 37:13
  Because, I mean, I know I think we've talked about this before, but, like, I have a visceral reaction.
• 37:19
  I also have.
• 37:21
  I mean, I have cried to the point of, like, being, like, unintelligible.
• 37:28
  Like, you can't understand the words that I'm even trying to say when I'm asking for help because I'm sobbing so hard and I can't form sounds that sound like words.
• 37:38
  You know what I mean?
• 37:45
  Like, that full, ugly cry.
• 37:47
  You know what I mean?
• 37:49
  Yep.
• 37:51
  But,.
• 37:53
  Like, that's how vulnerable and how difficult it feels sometimes.
• 37:56
  There's a visceral reaction in my body, and that is, like, a shame response.
• 38:02
  Right.
• 38:02
  Like, again, it's me judging myself for even needing help in the first place.
• 38:07
  It's.
• 38:08
  You know, it's.
• 38:09
  All of.
• 38:09
  It's all of the things like you said, it's so much bigger than that, but I have, like, a full body reaction to it.
• 38:15
  Whereas, like, offering help, it's like, easy.
• 38:23
  Easy peasy.
• 38:24
  Yeah, exactly.
• 38:27
  Like, I mean, that's.
• 38:30
  That's easy.
• 38:31
  And to me, it's.
• 38:32
  It.
• 38:32
  It really does.
• 38:33
  For the right people, in the right moments.
• 38:37
  Feels as easy as breathing.
• 38:39
  Like, it's like.
• 38:40
  I mean, I feel like even sometimes I'm like, well, yeah, I can do that.
• 38:44
  No worries.
• 38:45
  Like, really, what are you talking about?
• 38:49
  Of course.
• 38:49
  Yeah.
• 38:49
  Like, it's not.
• 38:51
  Not even a thing, right?
• 38:52
  Like, I don't think twice about it for the right people now, now that I've gotten a bit more discerning about that exchange.
• 38:59
  But I somehow in my tiny little brain, never think that I'm gonna get that reaction from someone else.
• 39:07
  Even the people who love me most, right?
• 39:10
  Like, I never think I'm gonna ask for help and someone's gonna be like, oh, my God, of course.
• 39:14
  I always think they're gonna be like, what do you.
• 39:16
  What's wrong with you?
• 39:17
  Why can't you do that?
• 39:18
  What are you talking about?
• 39:19
  Get out of here.
• 39:21
  You know, so it's funny because I'm.
• 39:23
  I'm thinking here.
• 39:23
  That's why I've been so quiet, because I'm really processing over here.
• 39:28
  And now I forgot what I was going to say.
• 39:30
  This is why you talk fast and.
• 39:32
  Just say, yeah, I jump in because.
• 39:35
  It's gone while it's hot.
• 39:36
  Yeah, exactly.
• 39:38
  Well, I tried to write it down so I don't forget, like, just the.
• 39:41
  The one thing.
• 39:42
  And then I.
• 39:42
  But I didn't.
• 39:46
  I'm having a musical interlude while we do this.
• 39:49
  Trying to release some of the uncomfortable discomfort ability in my body.
• 39:55
  No, I feel too.
• 39:57
  I mean, I don't have a problem helping, but I have a problem helping because I feel like so much responsibility was put on me as a child, and I had so much responsibility into adulthood that sometimes when someone
• 40:14
  needs me, I'm not happy about it.
• 40:18
  I'm kind of like, I don't.
• 40:19
  Nope.
• 40:20
  I don't want to.
• 40:21
  I don't.
• 40:22
  I don't want to help.
• 40:23
  You needed.
• 40:24
  Tired.
• 40:24
  Yeah.
• 40:24
  Responsibility.
• 40:25
  Yeah.
• 40:25
  I've done enough.
• 40:27
  Yes, yes.
• 40:28
  Like, I've done.
• 40:29
  And I've done enough.
• 40:30
  Taken care of.
• 40:31
  Like, I don't want to.
• 40:35
  But then it depends on who and what.
• 40:38
  I understand that feeling for sure.
• 40:41
  And I think that's, like, the root.
• 40:43
  That's this.
• 40:44
  Like, that's the source of the discernment.
• 40:46
  Now, is that, like.
• 40:49
  Yeah, There are still certain people where you need me.
• 40:55
  I'm on a plane, I'm hopping in the car.
• 40:58
  What do you need?
• 40:59
  And I'm there.
• 41:00
  But then.
• 41:02
  But that list is getting smaller.
• 41:04
  Smaller as I get older.
• 41:06
  Or you can be Phoebe and say, oh, I wish I could, but I can't.
• 41:10
  I wish I could, but I don't want.
• 41:11
  But I don't want.
• 41:12
  But I don't want to.
• 41:12
  I love that one.
• 41:13
  But I don't want to.
• 41:14
  Like, I wish that we could all be free enough to say, like, I wish I could, but I don't want to.
• 41:19
  Yeah.
• 41:20
  Yep.
• 41:21
  It's just.
• 41:22
  It's just.
• 41:23
  Just not there right now.
• 41:24
  It's not.
• 41:25
  Channel our inner Phoebe.
• 41:29
  Yeah.
• 41:32
  Okay, so one specific ask.
• 41:35
  Even if it's a very small thing that you're gonna make out loud this week to a real person, you can't.
• 41:46
  You can't ask Claude or chat GPT.
• 41:53
  Say it out loud to a real person.
• 41:57
  What's one thing that you are going to ask for help on?
• 42:04
  I mean, I feel like that might be easy for me.
• 42:06
  I'd be like, I'm going to ask the two of you.
• 42:08
  One of the two of you or both of you something about.
• 42:11
  Oh, no, I do, I do.
• 42:12
  I have.
• 42:13
  Yep.
• 42:13
  Some that to do with substack.
• 42:14
  So I'll be asking two of you about the substack this week.
• 42:20
  Spoiler alert.
• 42:21
  I have no answers about substack.
• 42:22
  I still cannot figure it out.
• 42:24
  Perfect.
• 42:24
  We'll figure it out together.
• 42:25
  Knows anything about substack Stack?
• 42:27
  Please join Kula and help us because.
• 42:29
  Right.
• 42:29
  I have no.
• 42:30
  What's going on over there?
• 42:32
  We need help.
• 42:33
  Yeah, we're new to.
• 42:35
  Here we go.
• 42:35
  Look at us asking for help.
• 42:37
  Right?
• 42:37
  Look at that,.
• 42:40
  Please.
• 42:44
  You know, in some areas, I've made so much progress on this.
• 42:48
  Like if I'm honestly, like, if I need to talk to somebody, somebody, like, I can ask anytime.
• 42:59
  There's so many people I could call now, right?
• 43:04
  Not always.
• 43:05
  That was not always the case.
• 43:07
  Yeah.
• 43:09
  Or.
• 43:10
  I don't know.
• 43:10
  I'm trying to think if I need anything.
• 43:14
  The only thing I can think of is I'm not asking, like, really.
• 43:22
  I.
• 43:22
  But see, that's.
• 43:23
  That's one of the differentiators.
• 43:25
  I actually don't need help.
• 43:28
  I could do it by myself, which is part of the thing, but I also don't want to do it by myself.
• 43:38
  Good.
• 43:38
  And you'll be done in 2028.
• 43:42
  Simply not acceptable.
• 43:44
  It's fine.
• 43:45
  No, I'm.
• 43:46
  I'm getting there.
• 43:46
  Making progress.
• 43:47
  Trust me.
• 43:48
  Okay.
• 43:48
  But what I was thinking is maybe I could ask somebody to hang out with me, like on the phone or something while I do some stuff around the house.
• 44:00
  I love that idea.
• 44:02
  Yes.
• 44:03
  I love that.
• 44:04
  That way it's not just me in my head,.
• 44:08
  But you have company.
• 44:09
  While you're doing it, you have, like, a distraction from the.
• 44:13
  The size of the task or, like, the weight of the test.
• 44:18
  Both of those things.
• 44:19
  Yes, please.
• 44:20
  Thank you.
• 44:21
  Yeah.
• 44:21
  Okay.
• 44:22
  Okay.
• 44:24
  See, I just asked.
• 44:25
  Look at you.
• 44:26
  I said please and thank you.
• 44:28
  Yeah.
• 44:28
  And done.
• 44:30
  Eric.
• 44:31
  Except that.
• 44:31
  Except that I'm going away this weekend.
• 44:32
  I'm so sorry, but I will.
• 44:36
  It won't be me.
• 44:37
  Good luck any other time.
• 44:38
  All right.
• 44:39
  Yeah.
• 44:40
  I wish I could, but I won't be here.
• 44:43
  I won't be home this weekend, but any other time.
• 44:46
  I got you, babe.
• 44:51
  That was perfect.
• 44:52
  I love it.
• 44:54
  Oh, I love it.
• 44:58
  No, maybe like, Sunday afternoon after we get home, because we're going to leave there at, like, 11 anyway.
• 45:03
  We'll figure that out later.
• 45:05
  No one needs to know.
• 45:06
  Plenty of days.
• 45:07
  There are plenty of days that we can do this.
• 45:10
  On a scale of 1 to 10,.
• 45:11
  How much do the listeners care about us?
• 45:13
  Scheduling.
• 45:14
  I know.
• 45:15
  Zero.
• 45:16
  Moving on.
• 45:17
  Anyway, so my thing is, we are still not even started on the downstairs bathroom renovation.
• 45:25
  Oh, no.
• 45:27
  Yeah.
• 45:28
  So we've been, like, talking about this project for the better part of a year, and I have hesitated to call the one person in my family who could help the most.
• 45:44
  Even if it's just, like, I want to tell you what my vision is.
• 45:49
  You tell me if I'm insane.
• 45:51
  Tell me how much it should cost.
• 45:53
  Like, tell me the things and just, like, prep me for meeting with these people.
• 45:58
  But I've put off even having that conversation because I know the thing on the other side of that conversation was I'll just come do it for you.
• 46:06
  I know.
• 46:07
  There's no doubt in my mind that this person that I would call would literally drop everything, take a week off work, and just come do it and ask for nothing.
• 46:16
  And I can't make that up.
• 46:20
  You can't.
• 46:22
  So receive that.
• 46:23
  It's hard.
• 46:24
  Yes.
• 46:24
  Yeah.
• 46:25
  Yeah.
• 46:25
  It's hard for me to receive that level of generosity.
• 46:28
  To your point about the size and the effort of the task.
• 46:33
  That's interesting.
• 46:35
  But I do.
• 46:35
  Let me ask you something.
• 46:37
  So is it because you know that they would drop anything to come help you, that you feel like you're taking advantage?
• 46:44
  Yes.
• 46:44
  And that's why you can.
• 46:45
  Yeah.
• 46:46
  Yeah.
• 46:47
  Or that I'm A burden.
• 46:48
  Right.
• 46:49
  That.
• 46:49
  That's a ridiculous ask.
• 46:51
  Right.
• 46:51
  For a gainfully employed.
• 46:52
  Even though that's not what you're asking.
• 46:54
  Right.
• 46:54
  I know 41 year old woman to ask that of someone.
• 47:00
  I.
• 47:01
  Absolutely not.
• 47:02
  Ridiculous.
• 47:03
  Ridiculous.
• 47:03
  But I, I do need help with the logistics and the vision and I am, I am going to make that asked and I am going to be open to options.
• 47:18
  I'm going to remain open to options.
• 47:21
  I would just say that this is maybe the receiving part of you coming to help me from a different area.
• 47:30
  Oh, okay, okay, okay.
• 47:34
  I'm just saying, right.
• 47:38
  If I accept that help, would it make you feel less bad about accepting my help?
• 47:43
  No.
• 47:45
  Oh, maybe.
• 47:48
  Are there?
• 47:48
  Okay.
• 47:49
  Yay.
• 47:50
  We'll practice together then.
• 47:51
  We'll practice together then.
• 47:52
  And I am not by any means.
• 47:54
  I'm not going into the conversation with any kind of expectation to a certain outcome.
• 47:59
  I just have a sense given my relationship with this person that they will do way more than is ever asked.
• 48:10
  And I am going to struggle with not being a burden because I'm not.
• 48:17
  I.
• 48:18
  I think.
• 48:21
  At least I think so.
• 48:24
  Okay, so we've got our tasks for the week.
• 48:28
  Now is us, like, reclaiming our sovereignty, courage, leaning into this, like, hard thing.
• 48:35
  This thing that's been really challenging for all of us throughout the entirety of our lives.
• 48:42
  Yeah.
• 48:42
  We are encouraged to be vulnerable.
• 48:44
  Everyone who's listening to do the same.
• 48:47
  We're giving you permission to make the ask to not stop that flow of like, generosity and reciprocity.
• 48:58
  It's going to take a bit of courage, but you got this.
• 49:01
  And as usual, we are inviting you into Kula to tell us about it.
• 49:10
  Come, come say hello.
• 49:12
  Join the community.
• 49:13
  It's free.
• 49:14
  We want to hear your stories.
• 49:15
  We want to chat with you.
• 49:17
  We want to get to know all of you and hear your side of this.
• 49:22
  Because it's super fun for us obviously, to talk into these microphones, but it would be way more fun if we all got together and hung out some more.
• 49:30
  So thank you for being here, whoever you are and wherever you're listening.
• 49:37
  Yeah.
• 49:38
  And if you come to Kula once a month now, we do have coffee.
• 49:43
  Hang.
• 49:44
  Coffee hang with three rebel souls.
• 49:45
  Three rebel souls.
• 49:47
  We are doing that.
• 49:48
  Literally.
• 49:49
  Just hanging out and talking with us.
• 49:52
  And we would get to talk to you, which would be amazing.
• 49:56
  We talk to each other all the time.
• 49:57
  We want to talk to you.
• 49:59
  Right?
• 50:00
  Exactly.
• 50:00
  Yeah.
• 50:01
  We want to hear about your experiences.
• 50:04
  So we hope to see you there.
• 50:05
  But in the meantime, please.
• 50:09
  We also officially launched our sub stack.
• 50:12
  You can comment on our substack or join our community.
• 50:15
  Tell us how you're being courageous and leaning in and asking for help or practicing this receiving that can be so challenging for some of us.
• 50:31
  So good lodging.
• 50:33
  Thank you.
• 50:34
  You got this.
• 50:37
  Love you all.
• 50:38
  Love you.
• 50:39
  Bye.