Latest / The Soap Box Podcast / Why it’s not your fault, with Pippa Parfait

Transcript

Why it’s not your fault, with Pippa Parfait · The Soap Box Podcast

• 1:17
  Peta: Today's ever evolving world of, now wait, don't go, it's alright, I've not made ChatGPT write the introduction to this podcast, but, today's world is different, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about in this podcast episode.
• 1:38
  Peta: days gone by, when, you know, only white men, um, Um, and they were the ones that made up all the rules.
• 1:47
  Peta: There was a specific type of way that you did business, that you ran your business.
• 1:55
  Peta: There was a specific way that you marketed.
• 1:58
  Peta: There was a particular way that you talked about what you did, and a way that you organized your day, and a way that you ran your finances.
• 2:08
  Peta: There were things that you got help in for, and things that you didn't.
• 2:13
  Peta: There were things that you had to think about, and things that you didn't.
• 2:16
  Peta: Because, you know, your wife was dealing with them back at the ranch.
• 2:20
  Peta: Today, things are different.
• 2:22
  Peta: And I'm really thankful for that.
• 2:24
  Peta: It means that I can run my business in a way that works for me and my family.
• 2:29
  Peta: It means that I can market my business in a way that works for my brain.
• 2:34
  Peta: it means I can build my business.
• 2:37
  Peta: A space that feels good to me, but, because the patriarchy likes to hold on to things by its fingernails, which are short and useless because, you know, um, man, um, We still get bombarded with, the same ways of doing things.
• 2:59
  Peta: There are a whole ton of people out there, whose names you will probably be thinking of, even if I don't say them out loud, uh, who tell you the right way to market, the right way to go viral, if that's what you want to do, the right way to scale your business, to grow, the right way to manage your day, be it a Pomodoro timer, or, uh, getting up at 5am before the kids are awake.
• 3:23
  Peta: Or downing your green juice at 3am whilst on the treadmill and answering business calls.
• 3:31
  Peta: We still get bombarded with that stuff all the time, even though we know in our very hearts that it does not work for us.
• 3:40
  Peta: And it makes us feel like we're failing.
• 3:42
  Peta: And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to today's guest in my podcast.
• 3:50
  Peta: Um, the other reason is because she's brilliant, uh, and, um, everything she says is very, very inspiring and also she's very funny and I like chatting with her.
• 3:58
  Peta: but the big reason is I want more people, as many people as possible to know that, if the way that you've been told to do things is not working as you run your business, it is not your fault.
• 4:15
  Peta: And you're not doing anything wrong.
• 4:18
  Peta: and just because you're not making those things work for you doesn't mean that you're wrong.
• 4:22
  Peta: It means those things are wrong.
• 4:26
  Peta: I'm talking to Pippa Parfait today.
• 4:28
  Peta: Pippa is, the founder and one half of disobedient business company.
• 4:32
  Peta: her business partner, Lucy, is her eldest sprocket.
• 4:37
  Peta: they are both proudly neurodivergent.
• 4:39
  Peta: and they're on a mission to help anti status quo business owners figure out their shit.
• 4:44
  Peta: Um, there will be quite a lot swearing in today's podcast.
• 4:48
  Peta: So, you know, maybe earbuds are the way forward.
• 4:51
  Peta: they want to help people chuck out the business BS rulebook and actually create businesses that they love running without burning out or ditching all their values.
• 5:01
  Peta: Pippa works with rebellious, often spicy brained business owners.
• 5:04
  Peta: to build people first businesses that are grounded in integrity, simplicity, and what actually works for them.
• 5:11
  Peta: Um, Pippa is my business coach.
• 5:15
  Peta: Uh, and she is a fabulous all round human.
• 5:17
  Peta: and amongst other things, on today's podcast, we talk about commerce versus capitalism.
• 5:23
  Peta: Why we feel like it's our fault that we've failed in, in those commas.
• 5:28
  Peta: Um, we have a little bit of a meander into is meritocracy really a thing?
• 5:33
  Peta: Uh, we talk about how people are wonderfully diverse.
• 5:37
  Peta: and that that is a strength of our species and of society and of our businesses.
• 5:44
  Peta: and we talk about how squishy human stuff like self trust and mindset and courage to adapt.
• 5:49
  Peta: are often more important than business knowledge, to help us tap into the right way of doing things for us.
• 5:57
  Peta: it's, yeah, it was a bundle of loves to record and I really hope that it is inspiring and helpful to you to listen.
• 6:04
  Peta: so, yeah, sit back and grab a coffee and listen to Pippa get on her soapbox.
• 6:12
  Peta: It's really nice to see you on a podcast and not on a coaching call.
• 6:15
  Peta: Obviously it's really nice to see you on coaching calls too.
• 6:18
  Peta: That's a great start, isn't it?
• 6:20
  Pippa: Yeah, welcome to the podcast.
• 6:22
  Pippa: Uh, yeah, it's really very, um, it's, well, firstly, it's very odd not to be hosting because I'm so often hosting when it comes to podcasts.
• 6:28
  Pippa: And secondly, yeah, being on a screen with you that's not, um, a coaching call to the mastermind.
• 6:33
  Pippa: Yeah.
• 6:33
  Pippa: Mind blowing.
• 6:34
  Pippa: Hi.
• 6:34
  Pippa: Nice to be here.
• 6:36
  Peta: We'll just all segue into some kind of coaching session all the way through and all the listeners will get the joy of hearing me
• 6:42
  Pippa: Yes.
• 6:43
  Pippa: Pippa puts Peter on the spot.
• 6:47
  Peta: That's a terrible idea.
• 6:47
  Peta: Let's not unpack that now.
• 6:49
  Pippa: No, no, it's all good.
• 6:51
  Peta: Anyway.
• 6:51
  Peta: Um, so Pippa is my business coach, uh, for those who are very confused.
• 6:56
  Peta: Um, from that little bit of a conversation.
• 6:58
  Peta: But for people who don't know you or haven't come across you and your wonderfulness, can you tell them a little bit about you?
• 7:05
  Pippa: Yeah, oh yeah, this is where you kind of like rub the hands together and prepare the elevator pitch, isn't it?
• 7:10
  Pippa: No, fuck that, don't worry, that's, that's not my vibe at all.
• 7:14
  Pippa: Okay, so who am I?
• 7:15
  Pippa: I am Pippa Parfait, and yes, the answer to that question is it is my real name, I haven't made it up.
• 7:20
  Pippa: It isn't a stage name, it's a family name.
• 7:22
  Pippa: No, I am not French, which you can probably tell from the accent, and there is French in the family though.
• 7:30
  Pippa: And, uh, yes, my name does mean perfect, and yes, you are welcome to shower me with appropriate compliments of that nature.
• 7:36
  Pippa: Um, I run the Disobedient Business Co.
• 7:39
  Pippa: with, uh, my, both business partner and eldest sprogglet, Lucy.
• 7:45
  Pippa: And essentially, we're kind of all about supporting what we call disobedient folks, and I have no doubt we'll get into that at some point, so I won't bore you with it now, to kind of build, establish, create, scale, god that's not a word that I love, um, their businesses in a way that does not feel like shit, that kind of honours them, honours their nervous systems, means that they're creating offers that both sell and people want, but also that they actually love.
• 8:11
  Pippa: delivering and kind of make some money doing it in the process.
• 8:14
  Pippa: So I guess that's what we're all about, really.
• 8:17
  Peta: I think that was a fabulous elevator pitch.
• 8:18
  Peta: I don't know what you're talking about.
• 8:21
  Pippa: It's not the scripted one though, but I kind of don't believe in those.
• 8:23
  Pippa: They're for, they're for blog profiles and stuff, aren't they?
• 8:27
  Pippa: They're not really for humaning, are they?
• 8:28
  Peta: No, this is very true.
• 8:29
  Peta: You could try and like splurge them at a networking event and people just glaze over.
• 8:34
  Peta: Um, cool.
• 8:35
  Peta: Okay.
• 8:35
  Peta: So, uh, we are going to talk about a whole bunch of stuff, but I usually start the podcast with Um, asking people what their soapbox is, hence the name of the podcast.
• 8:47
  Peta: So the thing that you find yourself in the kitchen at the end of parties talking someone's ear off about.
• 8:53
  Peta: Um, or at said networking meetings, if they're things that you go to.
• 8:58
  Peta: Um, so, Pippa, what is your soapbox?
• 9:02
  Peta: Brilliant.
• 9:04
  Pippa: been thinking about this a little bit because, uh, I, When you say, if I go to those kind of things, networking things from time to time, although they're like a very casual, non I want to vomit into my mouth kind of ones, um, parties, not so much.
• 9:19
  Pippa: So they're talking to people at parties at the end of the night.
• 9:21
  Pippa: No, not so much.
• 9:22
  Pippa: Very much a bit of a Um, what do I call myself?
• 9:24
  Pippa: A Dobby introvert.
• 9:26
  Pippa: So, uh, I've got a whole lot to say and I'd quite like to hide in a room, please.
• 9:29
  Pippa: Thanks very much.
• 9:31
  Pippa: Um, which probably segues nicely to, I guess, the business soapbox for me is, um, because I won't, you know, talk to you about cats and that kind of stuff.
• 9:42
  Pippa: Nobody wants to hear that.
• 9:44
  Pippa: Um, Is probably this notion that there is this prevailing, um, business advice out there.
• 9:51
  Pippa: There is like a way to build your business, there's a way to start your business, there's a way to scale your business.
• 9:58
  Pippa: And the trouble is, it's so unbelievably steeped in all of the isms, capitalism, patriarchy and so on.
• 10:06
  Pippa: Um, and inevitably that advice, those, those prevailing wisdoms and anything that has the word prevailing and wisdom in front of it, run.
• 10:14
  Pippa: Just like run really, really fast.
• 10:16
  Pippa: Um, my granddad sidetracked, sorry folks, ADHD, my grandad always used to say when I was growing up, um, the trouble with common sense is not all that common, which to this day makes me chuckle.
• 10:29
  Pippa: Um, and it's that idea that, that advice, it doesn't matter what so called, and I use the term guru, um, advisedly, what so called kind of high profile, possibly celebrity or otherwise, Tons of followers on Instagram etc.
• 10:45
  Pippa: A person is telling you that you should do to build your business.
• 10:49
  Pippa: It was almost inevitably handed down to them and maybe it's been diluted, maybe it's been hyped up, who knows.
• 10:55
  Pippa: From sort of mediocre middle aged white dudes in grey pin suits etc.
• 10:59
  Pippa: Who, um, did not give two shits whether you were neurodivergent or gender non conforming or you, you existed in some way shape or form outside of the heteronormative capitalist want to squeeze every last piece of money resource or anything out of everybody.
• 11:18
  Pippa: Um, Norm, because, you know, we do have to acknowledge that that is the norm and probably will continue to be the norm until I shuffle off this mortal coil anyway.
• 11:27
  Pippa: Um, I know it's changing, but, you know, I think we're a generation or several away from a complete revolution.
• 11:33
  Pippa: Be nice to think we weren't, isn't it?
• 11:35
  Pippa: I suppose, I suppose our business exists for that reason.
• 11:38
  Pippa: It exists because I spent years being sick and fucking tired, quite frankly, of, um, paying another several thousand pounds, dollars, whatever.
• 11:49
  Pippa: to hear said wisdom passed down from said stuffy old white dudes, um, to the latest guru who promised that I would do x, y, and z.
• 11:58
  Pippa: What the x, y, and z is doesn't really matter.
• 12:01
  Pippa: Inevitably almost had something to do with money almost all of the time.
• 12:05
  Pippa: And not only did I feel like a failure when I failed to achieve that so called cast iron gold star guarantee, um, bullshit that they were selling me, but that the program and the person hosting it.
• 12:19
  Pippa: I mean literally deliberately set it up in such a way that said if you do not achieve the thing that we said you would achieve at the beginning, you are the problem.
• 12:30
  Pippa: You didn't do it right.
• 12:31
  Pippa: You didn't show up often enough.
• 12:34
  Pippa: You didn't polish it enough.
• 12:35
  Pippa: You didn't persist enough.
• 12:37
  Pippa: You weren't consistent, which is a word I want to kind of tie up in a bow and wrap around some people's throats.
• 12:42
  Pippa: I'm not a violent person, I promise.
• 12:44
  Pippa: But in some way, shape or form, it was in It's insidious and pernicious and lots of unnecessarily long and complicated words with issues at the end of them, set up in such a way that you failed.
• 12:59
  Pippa: You know, you, you did not achieve the thing and it's your fault.
• 13:02
  Pippa: And those of us that, I mean, I've been in business now for nine years and those of us have been kicking around that long and longer, um, um, almost undoubtedly with, with, I can't think of an exception have taken some of those programs, courses, masterminds, whatever they are, certainly in the earlier days of our business.
• 13:20
  Pippa: And every single time we did a little tiny bit more of our soul was eaten away at our ability to be able to do this thing that is.
• 13:29
  Pippa: I would like to deliver a service.
• 13:31
  Pippa: I'd like to deliver a service or set a product for, um, a fair price where the thing that I am selling is, uh, traded by way of commerce rather than capitalism to this other person that needs that service.
• 13:43
  Pippa: And that's great.
• 13:44
  Pippa: Wonderful.
• 13:45
  Pippa: Everyone's happy.
• 13:47
  Pippa: And I know I make that sound really simple, and I know it's not really, really simple, and I know there's a lot that goes into sales and marketing and so on and so forth.
• 13:53
  Pippa: But, yeah.
• 13:55
  Pippa: So my soapbox is, I'm sick of fucking tired of being told that it's our fault, because we didn't do it their way.
• 14:02
  Pippa: There you go.
• 14:02
  Pippa: Gah!
• 14:05
  Peta: Podcast.
• 14:05
  Peta: Mic drop.
• 14:09
  Pippa: Is that one of those, like, from 1990 whatever tweetable moments that we always used to talk about?
• 14:13
  Peta: I think so.
• 14:13
  Peta: Yeah, I might just like, I might quote it from the transcription and put it on social.
• 14:19
  Peta: Um, yeah, no, I mean, you know that I completely agree because that's why I'm in, that's why I'm in the mastermind.
• 14:26
  Peta: Um, I have taken said courses and I have taken courses, um, and done programs that were run by wonderful people who tried to mitigate some of the, advice that they were selling because they'd been kind of given it by somebody else with a little bit more nuance and a little bit more kind of kindness.
• 14:48
  Peta: But essentially the building blocks of the advice was still, it's still the same.
• 14:53
  Peta: Um, my, my whole, like I didn't intentionally, I don't think I really have built a proper personal brand, but I didn't really intentionally build one of those.
• 15:05
  Peta: It all happened because I wrote a ranty email to a podcast that I was listening to as I was starting out about how all the productivity advice that they were talking about, was relevant for middle aged white men who didn't have any caring responsibilities.
• 15:22
  Peta: Um, and so I couldn't do any of it, because I had small people and All that kind of thing.
• 15:29
  Peta: So this idea that there's this one size fits all has kind of bothered me from, yeah, from the very beginning of my business, but it is, it's still, it's the water that you swim in.
• 15:40
  Peta: Like it's really hard to get away from.
• 15:41
  Peta: I
• 15:42
  Pippa: Yeah, and it's really interesting because I was about to say to you then, I have seen it get better.
• 15:48
  Pippa: Um, and I've probably kind of, you know, for listeners need to add some like funny ears into that sentence, but then you know what, on reflection, have I seen it get better?
• 15:57
  Pippa: And because what I think has actually happened is that I have curated a community that I kick around in and the waters that I swim in, where it is better because I have, eschewed.
• 16:09
  Pippa: Oh my god, what is wrong with my vocabulary today?
• 16:11
  Peta: love it.
• 16:12
  Peta: It's great.
• 16:12
  Pippa: I'm gonna have to increase the kind of shitbucks and wanks in order to upset these ridiculously and unnecessarily long words I'm coming up with, um, because I have kind of cast off all of that nonsense and I, um, I mean I've never followed a certain person whose initials are TR, uh, who's very tall and lives in America, um, because that person has never, um, Never spoken to me resonated with me at all.
• 16:37
  Pippa: But those kind of his acolytes, if you like, and others of that nature have kind of fallen away I was impressed with, I don't know about, you know, in or of at all, but impressed with a certain acolyte of his, who shall remain nameless but runs a ever popular large business coaching cough coaching program in the same country.
• 17:05
  Pippa: In the early days, and You know, I haven't followed them for probably seven plus years now.
• 17:12
  Pippa: So I guess to a certain extent, it's very easy for you to kind of sit back and go, well, yeah, things have got better, but I don't think they have.
• 17:18
  Pippa: I actually think of anything.
• 17:19
  Pippa: They may have got a little worse, especially bearing in mind what's happening with politics in the world at the moment, um, in a sort of global politics sense, rather than, uh, you know, in the business world.
• 17:29
  Pippa: Um, but I just don't hang out in those places anymore.
• 17:33
  Pippa: I've kind of carefully curated the people that I.
• 17:37
  Pippa: hang out with to be a sort of asshole and dickhead free zone, really.
• 17:43
  Peta: I mean, it's nice for
• 17:44
  Pippa: It helps.
• 17:46
  Peta: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Peta: And I, I do.
• 17:48
  Peta: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Peta: I kind of feel the same.
• 17:49
  Peta: Like, I feel like sometimes I have a foot in both camps.
• 17:52
  Peta: Like I'm working on a, I'm working on a project for a client at the moment, which involves taking a course.
• 17:58
  Peta: And, yeah, the, the overriding kind of vibe.
• 18:05
  Peta: In fact, he does, the guy who runs this course does say this at some points, like, basically, if it doesn't work, then you've not done it properly.
• 18:13
  Peta: And I'm like, okay, I kind of get where you're coming from, because there will always be people who take courses, and I'm doing bunny ears now, um, and don't, like, don't pay attention, or don't kind of, or miss a step, or go, oh, it's all right, I'll just skip this bit, because it's not important to the process.
• 18:31
  Peta: And then they come back and go, well, it didn't work.
• 18:34
  Peta: And so there are occasions where It's like if you buy a hoover and like you don't plug it in and then you go and you push it around and go it doesn't work in my house, like you've, you've not done that properly and that's why it's not worked.
• 18:46
  Peta: So there are occasions where that's the case.
• 18:50
  Peta: But that can't just be a blanket, like, I'm relinquishing responsibility for the efficacy of the stuff that I'm providing, because it worked for me, and it worked for a bunch of other people, so therefore it must work for you, and if it doesn't, then Yeah, you're wrong.
• 19:10
  Peta: So I'm not sure it is getting, I agree with you, I think that stuff is still out there and it's still compelling, especially as the market gets tougher.
• 19:17
  Pippa: Yeah, um, yeah, there's so much in what you just said.
• 19:20
  Pippa: I, hmm, okay.
• 19:22
  Pippa: Firstly, that shit makes me ragey.
• 19:25
  Pippa: Like, really, really ragey.
• 19:28
  Pippa: So if I am going to have a little rant, uh, you know, strap yourself in folks, I might be about to go off.
• 19:34
  Pippa: Um, uh, just.
• 19:38
  Pippa: Yes, so here's the thing.
• 19:40
  Pippa: Firstly, out of all of that, courses.
• 19:42
  Pippa: So if it is a program that has, I don't know, six modules, you know, whatever lessons in it, and all the rest of it, and well constructed courses should have a situation where you don't actually have to complete.
• 19:55
  Pippa: People talk about, um, I've done a lot of learning in course structure and what have you over the last couple of years, and plot twist, um, in a past life.
• 20:04
  Pippa: qualified teacher, used to teach adults in a, um, further education setting, God help me.
• 20:10
  Pippa: Um, and a well put together course will actually have a, be structured in such a way that you don't have to start at the beginning and work all your way through to the end to figure out how to turn the hoover on.
• 20:20
  Pippa: You should be able to go through, identify where the gaps in your knowledge are, in terms of what you know and or your skills, and be able to easily pull out from said curriculum what you need to do, complete those bits, and be equipped for the job at hand as a result.
• 20:38
  Pippa: Now yes, I agree, as a human, The knowledge bit that we try to do from a business point of view is only one part of the, um, the job, if you like.
• 20:48
  Pippa: What I've, my personal experience of working with clients and students in our, in our school is that as much of the job, if not way more of the job, is the, what I refer to as the squishy human stuff.
• 20:59
  Pippa: It's the, um, mindset is the, one of the most reductive terms in the business spaces as far as I'm concerned, but it's the.
• 21:06
  Pippa: It's the courage, it's the courage that leads to confidence, it's the self trust, it's the belief that you are, there is no wrong way to do things, that it's the ability to be able to be brave enough to be able to do things imperfectly, and the people that are out there that are preaching JFDI, um, for anybody that doesn't know what JFDI means, just fucking do it, um, Uh, it is reductive nonsense, because saying to somebody who has, I don't know, an experience of going through secondary school, for example, where they were constantly, um, criticized, or, um, they were, I don't know, I don't want to label any middle children, but they had a sort of middle child experience of being Uh, wasn't the cute young one, wasn't the high achieving, um, you know, um, older child, and that comes with its whole stuff as well.
• 21:56
  Pippa: Um, but they were, yeah, you and me both, so that's, that's, that's Peter and I wavering each other going, yeah, that's, that's us.
• 22:03
  Pippa: Um, in my case, only child, so like, all eyes on me.
• 22:07
  Pippa: Um, but we had that kind of, they had that experience where they were constantly criticized and everything that they put out there, you know, I've even had clients that have talked to me about being, locked away at school or, or this, this kind of stuff.
• 22:19
  Pippa: And imagine having that lived experience up to the age of, I don't know, pick an age, 30.
• 22:25
  Pippa: Um, and then being told to JFDI when it comes to putting yourself out there in your business, when it comes to, you know, being told to just get over yourself, you know, it's a mindset thing, work through your mindset thing, that's bullshit.
• 22:37
  Pippa: Because whilst you can't create emotional safety to be able to get out there and do your, um, you know, it's not something that anyone can gift to you, I cannot give you emotional safety, I cannot say.
• 22:47
  Pippa: This is a safe space.
• 22:48
  Pippa: I cannot say you will be totally fine because you may well get shouted down and you may well get criticized.
• 22:53
  Pippa: And people may well tell you that what you're offering is bullshit and what have you, because there are a tiny quantity of people out there that might do that.
• 23:01
  Pippa: Imagine also having that experience in your, in your earlier life and then having a business coach saying to you, just do it, but just do it.
• 23:09
  Pippa: I know it's your fault.
• 23:09
  Pippa: It's not working because you're not doing it.
• 23:11
  Pippa: Sure.
• 23:13
  Pippa: Makes me quite cross.
• 23:16
  Peta: I think it should.
• 23:17
  Peta: So, so let's dive into like the, let's dive into the politics stuff for a little bit, but like earlier on, you talked about isms and prevailing wisdom and all that kind of stuff.
• 23:32
  Peta: So, how is this?
• 23:35
  Peta: How is this kind of one size fits all, this is the right way to do business, um, in your, like, in your experience, how does that stem from slightly bigger structures that we could do with being aware of as business owners and people?
• 23:54
  Pippa: yeah, I mean, the, I mean, the roots of it's capital, the roots of it's all of the oppressive structures, to be quite honest with you.
• 23:59
  Pippa: It's that wonderful, you know, the triple bedfellows of, you know, capitalism, patriarchy and white supremacy.
• 24:05
  Pippa: But it, you know, fundamentally, for me, the capitalism piece is, And again, I'm going to butcher, you know, this from an explanation point of view, almost inevitably, because I always do when I'm put on the spot.
• 24:21
  Pippa: But for me, capitalism is about extraction.
• 24:24
  Pippa: It's about extracting every last penny.
• 24:27
  Pippa: It's entirely focused on money.
• 24:29
  Pippa: It's entirely focused on what you can get.
• 24:32
  Pippa: And what you can get from the other person, and it doesn't, it doesn't have a focus on mutual reciprocity.
• 24:39
  Pippa: It doesn't have a focus on what I guess the difference would be is commerce versus capitalism.
• 24:43
  Pippa: So for me, commerce is, here is my product or service, here is a price for it that feels appropriate.
• 24:51
  Pippa: It doesn't feel like I am, uh, I'm, for want of a better way of putting it, doesn't feel like I'm fucking myself over as a result of doing this service or product for this price.
• 25:01
  Pippa: Nor does it feel like I am endeavouring to screw you for every last penny that you can possibly afford and put you in a position where, um, a bit like a double glazing salesman when they say to you, uh, is the, uh, is the bill payer coming to this meeting today?
• 25:15
  Pippa: Because they want to establish that you've got a credit card with enough limit on it to Say yes, there and then.
• 25:20
  Pippa: So it's that it's it's got that vibe about it.
• 25:24
  Pippa: Um, whereas commerce is not that, you know, commerce is here is my business coaching program.
• 25:30
  Pippa: This is what I can help you with.
• 25:32
  Pippa: I feel like for the folks that I am, you know, working with, this feels like a fair price, I might want to have tiered pricing in place in order to make that more accessible to folks that aren't in a position to be able to invest.
• 25:45
  Pippa: I might want to have, um, scholarship options available potentially for similar reasons.
• 25:53
  Pippa: Uh, come chat to me about it.
• 25:55
  Pippa: You know, that kind of vibe.
• 25:56
  Pippa: And that's how we operate.
• 25:58
  Pippa: And I think here is one of the things that, um, makes me a bit cross.
• 26:03
  Pippa: Is that the right word?
• 26:04
  Pippa: About the whole thing.
• 26:06
  Pippa: And I've got to put this out there.
• 26:08
  Pippa: Yes, it is harder.
• 26:11
  Pippa: I know there's enough people saying this.
• 26:12
  Pippa: It is harder to build a business where you truly, and I mean, truly, not superficially give a shit about the people that you are working with.
• 26:22
  Pippa: Not just about the results that you get them, of course I give a shit about the results that, you know, we work together to, to try and create.
• 26:28
  Pippa: Um, but that you give a shit about whether, you know, they have the resources to be able to afford that program, whether or not it's the right kind of program for them.
• 26:36
  Pippa: Whether or not you have used extractive, um, tactics to, um, you know, get money from them or manipulative marketing tactics to make them feel like this is the solution and you are guaranteeing X, Y, and Z.
• 26:51
  Pippa: Which Frankly, anyone that is telling you that they can guarantee anything, even if they are saying they have a 30 day money back refund on their, um, guarantee thing, it's bullshit, you will not get your money back, please don't sign with anybody that says that, sorry, if you're one of those people, apologies, hoping you're probably not, if you're listening to Peter's podcast, but you know, just putting it out there.
• 27:12
  Pippa: Um, and it is, it's that, everything's rooted in capitalism, and that's before you even put the patriarchy lens on that in terms of, um, you know, it is, you know, the business world is certainly not set up in a bigger way to favor in any way, shape, or form women, gender non conforming folks, non binary folks, trans folks.
• 27:36
  Pippa: It is absolutely set up to favor white dudes.
• 27:40
  Pippa: And, and I specifically say white dudes as opposed to just dudes.
• 27:44
  Pippa: Um, then there will be people that are probably sitting there thinking, well, that's a dated view.
• 27:50
  Pippa: Is it though?
• 27:51
  Pippa: If you actually go and look at the statistics in terms of, you know, how many, um, women and, and non binary folks are CEOs in, you know, corporate America, corporate UK, corporate anywhere for that matter.
• 28:03
  Pippa: The statistics are still, I'd love to be a statistics person, Peter, I cannot quote a statistic in this particular moment, but I know that they are appalling.
• 28:09
  Pippa: They are still absolutely appalling.
• 28:12
  Pippa: Um, and to make it a personal thing, to make it an individualistic thing, so then we get into the socialism versus capitalism and so on and so forth vibe, um, that says, well, that's because, you know, enough women haven't made it up there yet, um, and, uh, or even at all for that matters.
• 28:30
  Pippa: So that's down to them.
• 28:31
  Pippa: That's down to individual progression.
• 28:32
  Pippa: That's down to individual work ethic, or it's down to.
• 28:36
  Pippa: Is it though?
• 28:36
  Pippa: Because then you keep working it all the way back to the opportunities, the opportunities at an educational level, the, the socio economic opportunities in terms of if you weren't born into enough money to afford, um, the extensive loans, certainly in the UK, that you have to take out for a, um, uh, university level education these days.
• 28:55
  Pippa: Being pals with the right people.
• 28:58
  Pippa: I mean, still, I thought when I got out of corporate, that this being pals with the right public school asshole was going to be a thing of the past.
• 29:07
  Pippa: Okay, so maybe it's not now being pals with the public school asshole that I have to consider, but there is still, even in the online business space and even amongst, you know, women, non binary, gender non conforming folk, um, There is still a who's, who's pond do you swim in vibe, you know, are you in with the cool crowd in order to be recommended in the right kind of rooms and so on and so forth.
• 29:30
  Pippa: Do you want to play in those rooms?
• 29:31
  Pippa: Do those kind of people really resonate with you?
• 29:34
  Pippa: And if all that shit isn't political, I don't know what is.
• 29:39
  Peta: That's a very good point.
• 29:40
  Peta: Yeah, that's totally.
• 29:41
  Peta: Okay.
• 29:42
  Peta: I hate playing devil's advocate.
• 29:43
  Peta: I hate the phrase,
• 29:44
  Pippa: I want to know, do it, because it pulls it, yeah,
• 29:46
  Peta: I think the devil has enough advocates.
• 29:47
  Peta: I think we've talked about, I think you've said that to me before.
• 29:50
  Peta: Um, but in light of.
• 29:53
  Peta: I mean, in light of everything that, all the shit that's going on in America right now, we are recording this on the 5th of February, um, so in light of the, there's been a lot of talk around meritocracy, um, And when I was at, when I was at university millions of years ago, like, meritocracy was something that we, that we talked about and how the British state had kind of embraced it and how it was a good thing and all that kind of thing.
• 30:20
  Peta: In light of all that, and in light of The fact that we've talked about how all the systems and structures and ways of doing things and courses and business advice all comes from a particular kind of person who is doing very well and has done very well and has gone quite far in the world in business and corporate.
• 30:41
  Peta: Well, in politics, wherever we are.
• 30:44
  Peta: To Playdevil's advocate, why should we support or make business more accessible for people who cannot get on in that way?
• 31:00
  Pippa: Oh, that is an interesting question.
• 31:04
  Peta: And obviously, like, just to set my stall, I think we should, but
• 31:07
  Pippa: Yeah, or no, I know you do.
• 31:09
  Peta: in light of like, there's a very, there seems, it's not, it's not necessarily to me a convincing argument, but there is, there is a strong argument being made that actually, it should be about.
• 31:21
  Peta: That all jobs in all walks of life should be given to the people who can do them the best, regardless of anything else that's going on.
• 31:30
  Peta: Um, and I'm, I think it would be interesting to explore that.
• 31:35
  Pippa: Yeah.
• 31:36
  Pippa: Oh, there's lots of things coming to mind, but the first one that jumps out at me is, um, okay, that's fine, and that would be, sure, you know, I, you, I, to be honest with you, I probably got on board with meritocracy for the first 30 to 35 years of my life.
• 31:54
  Pippa: Um, for context, and this is a slight segue, but it bears mentioning because it literally came up in conversation last night while I was out with some friends.
• 32:00
  Pippa: Um, we were talking about the fact that my granddad, so I am 52 at the time of recording, not that that's going to change between when this goes out and then, so that's an entirely moot point.
• 32:11
  Pippa: Um, and, uh, therefore my granddad died, what?
• 32:15
  Pippa: 15 years ago.
• 32:16
  Pippa: But my grandad, um, was a raging socialist.
• 32:20
  Pippa: A raging socialist.
• 32:21
  Pippa: Born in 1914, just to give some context.
• 32:23
  Pippa: So he'd be what, 111 now?
• 32:25
  Pippa: God love him.
• 32:26
  Pippa: Is that wrong?
• 32:27
  Pippa: Yeah, it is, isn't it?
• 32:28
  Peta: You have no idea, I'm not very good at
• 32:29
  Pippa: Yeah, no, it is.
• 32:30
  Pippa: 111.
• 32:32
  Pippa: That's wild.
• 32:33
  Pippa: Yeah, so anyway, so he's, he would be very old.
• 32:36
  Pippa: He is not with us anymore.
• 32:38
  Pippa: But he was a raging socialist.
• 32:40
  Pippa: He was in the print works in London, um, in his youth, retired out of that in his early 60s.
• 32:46
  Pippa: He marched when the Princes went out on strike, um, in London, he supported the, um, miners marches and all that kind of thing, voted Labour, I think he had, he would have views about Labour these days, but he voted Labour all of his life.
• 33:00
  Pippa: Fine, that sets the scene.
• 33:02
  Pippa: And at the same time, him and my Nan, who, same age, give or take a year, um, hailed from, uh, Lambeth in South London and were working class in their absolute roots.
• 33:16
  Pippa: And in spite of the socialist, I mean, it's not, this is not just leanings, this was like, I'm all for absolutely that, you know, Frank Thatcher and so on and so forth, because that was very much his era.
• 33:26
  Pippa: And in spite of that, now I look back on it, wouldn't have thought about this at the time, now I look back on it and think, that's really interesting, because they drank the Kool Aid from a meritocracy point of view.
• 33:37
  Pippa: They drank the Kool Aid from the point of view of, um, moving out of, um, what, what is essentially almost central London, but not quite Lambeth.
• 33:45
  Pippa: into the North Surrey suburbs, which is just south of London for anyone that's not in the UK, and buying a house.
• 33:52
  Pippa: That was a tick in the box of, um, I am a successful person, I have bought this on my merits, I have worked hard, etc.
• 33:59
  Pippa: They, supported my mum sending me to private school for my primary education because the local state school, wasn't considered to be up to scratch.
• 34:07
  Pippa: Um, so, so many of the ways that my granddad And Nan, to a, to a lesser extent, um, lived their lives almost kind of subscribed to what I would consider to be more conservative, right leaning, meritocracy, um, principles, values, etc.
• 34:25
  Pippa: But yet he would consider himself to be a, if we had this conversation with him now, a raging socialist.
• 34:31
  Pippa: So I kind of came out into my early 30s, 20s, 30s, etc.
• 34:35
  Pippa: With this kind of, you had to work hard, you won everything that you, exactly the definition of meritocracy, everything that you got, you got on your own merits, and so on and so forth.
• 34:43
  Pippa: Sure.
• 34:45
  Pippa: But I got those privileges, I got access to, just for full disclosure, I did not go to university.
• 34:52
  Pippa: That was a personal choice when it came to turning 18, and I was very much over education at that point, thank you very much.
• 34:58
  Pippa: Um, But I had had a private primary education, which was a, um, which was a privilege that was afforded to me by virtue of the fact that my mum was living with my grandparents at the time, and me, obviously, and there was money available for that to happen.
• 35:13
  Pippa: I thus, as a result of that, went to a not private, but a very well regarded entrance test level.
• 35:21
  Pippa: secondary school, a grammar school, which would have guaranteed me a place straight into a good, what we call over here, red brick university, which would have got me into rooms and so on and so forth.
• 35:32
  Pippa: I didn't go that route.
• 35:33
  Pippa: I chose not to go that route.
• 35:34
  Pippa: And I chose to go the route of my own.
• 35:37
  Pippa: Ironically, I ended up as a vice principal in a secondary educator, sorry, in a tertiary education college, um, as the only person in the senior, senior management role without a which was unheard of.
• 35:48
  Pippa: You didn't, you didn't get a place.
• 35:50
  Pippa: In those kind of organizations, if you were not a master's holder, let alone an undergraduate degree.
• 35:57
  Pippa: And for me, that kind of illustrates my point as to, uh, circling back to what you said about why should we be making things more accessible, more fair, more, um, more socialist, arguably, is kind of what we're saying, isn't it?
• 36:10
  Pippa: Um, and that is because I only ended up there as a result of having an incredibly supportive Primary education and incredibly comprehensive secondary education, the ability to, you know, imagine being somebody who had, I don't know, got scholarships into that kind of situation and been lucky enough because you'd come from a perhaps a less privileged, um, or less socio economically, um, successful.
• 36:36
  Pippa: Bunny ears.
• 36:37
  Pippa: Um, family.
• 36:39
  Pippa: But imagine, you know, somehow lucking out and getting that primary education, getting that secondary education and being privileged enough to be the arsehole that goes, no, I'm not going to take that full ride scholarship at a degree at a university that I've been offered because I'm going to go and do my own thing.
• 36:56
  Pippa: That, in and of itself, if I look back at it now, was an unbelievably privileged thing to do.
• 37:00
  Pippa: For me to go, fuck it, I'm just going to go out and work anyway and find my own way in the world and walk straight into a, um, graduate, but graduate of secondary school, um, training program and become a successful insurance underwriter.
• 37:13
  Pippa: I mean, so boring, but successful insurance underwriter for a few years before I accidentally got myself pregnant and another conversation for another day.
• 37:23
  Pippa: And if you look at all of that and think, and I am now where I am, and I don't want to kind of labour me as an example, but every single one of those bits along the way, something had to give me an extra layer of privilege that I did not earn in any way, shape or form, other than the fact that I was born white.
• 37:43
  Pippa: I was born into a family who weren't, um, financially, uh, rich by any stretch of the imagination, but hugely valued education and the ability to be able to go to university and so on and so forth.
• 37:57
  Pippa: And I still had the unearned privilege of being able to go fuck it and do whatever I liked anyway.
• 38:03
  Pippa: And I still ended up as a senior, senior you know, member of the senior team essentially in a further education institution, um, as the only person that had done that with no degree.
• 38:17
  Pippa: Why would we not?
• 38:19
  Pippa: When you put it like that, why would we not?
• 38:22
  Pippa: Because I don't have any inherent, um, oh soap, I really am getting on my soapbox now.
• 38:27
  Pippa: I don't have any more inherent value, um, than Peter does.
• 38:31
  Pippa: I don't have, you know, Peter doesn't have any more inherent value than Peter's part Peter's partner, say that quickly with, um, with a pint of lager, uh, than Peter's partner.
• 38:42
  Pippa: You know, he doesn't have any more inherent value than the next human.
• 38:46
  Pippa: We, none of us do.
• 38:47
  Pippa: You know, we, any of the privilege that we have has been circumstantial.
• 38:53
  Pippa: And it sure as shit didn't come as a result of being the person that worked the hardest.
• 38:57
  Pippa: If anything, the people that have to work unbelievably hard.
• 39:01
  Pippa: just to get to the point where, um, they have earned, I mean, and that phrase in and of itself is a problem in this, in that sentence, earned the right to have the level of privilege that was just bestowed upon me as a result of being born into the family that I did.
• 39:18
  Pippa: And I don't consider myself on the hierarchy of privilege, if you like, to be particularly high up, don't get me wrong, I, I count every last chicken that I have.
• 39:26
  Pippa: Not earned in my life that I have got, but, um, but on a scale of, you know, um, underprivileged to overprivileged, I'm probably not above the middle line by, you know, um, by anybody's measure.
• 39:40
  Pippa: If you look at the certain billionaires in America of this world, um, at the moment, for example.
• 39:47
  Pippa: And yet, just to get to the point where you have my unearned privilege, you'd have to work your fucking arse off in another situation.
• 39:57
  Pippa: So, for me, to be even remotely decent human adjacent, the idea of not Being able to be more accessible or to find ways and they are tiny ways because I am but one person my business partner Lucy is but one person to level the playing field to make anything that we do, or the way that we show up, or the way that we encourage people to approach their businesses publicly within the programs we run or otherwise.
• 40:25
  Pippa: more accessible and more doable and more, um, friendly to any of the aspects of our social identity, you know, whether that's, um, you know, the way our brains work, the, our cultural background, whatever it might be.
• 40:40
  Pippa: doesn't, I couldn't run a business in another way.
• 40:43
  Pippa: I, I couldn't, my values would not allow me to have a business that looked to fuck people over and extract money out of them just to be able to have a nice house and a good car and great holidays.
• 40:56
  Pippa: Not sure that answers your question Peter, to be honest with you, but
• 40:58
  Peta: No,
• 40:59
  Pippa: there it is.
• 41:01
  Peta: love it.
• 41:02
  Peta: Uh, yes, no, it totally does.
• 41:03
  Peta: Like, it's, meritocracy always sounds like, and like, yeah, like you, it was something that I was sold on, it always sounds like a very sensible, common sense, there we are again, idea.
• 41:16
  Pippa: Of course it does.
• 41:17
  Peta: But, once you start unpacking any of it, it's, like, it's in no way as simple as it sounds.
• 41:25
  Pippa: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Peta: Um, and it doesn't make anywhere near as much sense when you get an inch below the surface because of, you know, reality.
• 41:35
  Peta: Um, and that's the same in, yeah, in education, in business, in, in corporate, in politics and wherever.
• 41:43
  Pippa: Yeah.
• 41:44
  Peta: it is really interesting.
• 41:45
  Peta: So, the, um, so I'm a member of, um, of BNI for my sins.
• 41:51
  Peta: which I never thought that I would.
• 41:53
  Peta: I joined because this whole idea of like regular networking and BNIC felt to me and had been in my past experience, like being in a room full of middle aged white men wearing suits.
• 42:07
  Pippa: Yeah.
• 42:19
  Peta: where any parent that I know is doing like is trying to yank their children out of bed.
• 42:26
  Peta: push porridge down their throats and get them to kind of look vaguely, you know, normal.
• 42:30
  Peta: so it would never have been, um, been possible.
• 42:34
  Peta: The, the chapter, because yeah, there is that language, the chapter that I belong to, um, is actually really diverse.
• 42:41
  Peta: Like it's full of a whole bunch of mums who run their own businesses.
• 42:45
  Peta: It's full of men of all different ages who run businesses or work with businesses.
• 42:50
  Peta: It's full of trades.
• 42:51
  Peta: It's full of like, it's a really diverse group of people.
• 42:55
  Peta: Um, but the reason for that is because they moved their time from the usual six 30 to seven o'clock breakfast, which like globally is pretty much where BNI sits to starting at nine 30.
• 43:11
  Peta: That really feels like a tiny, tiny thing to do.
• 43:15
  Peta: But that one acknowledgement that this was a barrier, um, meant that they completely changed their demographic and the people who could be involved and who could see benefits to their own businesses, who could make connections.
• 43:30
  Peta: Um, and if you're not a networking person, then obviously that still sounds like a terrible thing to do.
• 43:33
  Peta: And yes, it's not for everybody.
• 43:35
  Peta: And yes, there are other barriers that they could break down.
• 43:38
  Peta: Um, but just that one, changing that one thing, like kind of questioning that one assumption that this is the time that you Business people are available to do networking, has opened up connections and business possibilities and all that kind of thing to a whole different range of people.
• 44:00
  Peta: Um, and, and that to me just kind of stands as a really small example of, of how we can't just assume that there's one way of doing things and that it is going to work for everybody.
• 44:13
  Peta: And if you can't make it work for you, then you're not trying hard enough or you don't care enough.
• 44:19
  Pippa: Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
• 44:20
  Pippa: Because, you know, it's the simplest thing in the world.
• 44:22
  Pippa: It does not take anybody remotely adjacent to a genius to be able to tell you, um, who are the people that are readily available without any kind of, um, scheduling conflicts at 6.
• 44:31
  Pippa: 30 and 7 o'clock in the morning.
• 44:33
  Pippa: It's like, seriously.
• 44:37
  Pippa: Oh, and more to the point, the amount of those things I had to move mountains to make when I was back in, um, corporate or public sector stuff that still happened that hour of the morning.
• 44:47
  Pippa: But of course, Regardless of whether I had childcare or any other kind of, um, responsibilities, I was still expected to attend.
• 44:53
  Pippa: So, the mountain that has to be moved in order to be able to make that happen is a very sizable one.
• 45:01
  Pippa: Yeah.
• 45:02
  Peta: Um, well that has given me lots of food for thought.
• 45:05
  Peta: I hope that has given people listening food for thought as well.
• 45:08
  Peta: if people listening, like the, the vision of, running their own business or, um, business coaching that you have.
• 45:16
  Peta: Demonstrated for us.
• 45:17
  Peta: Where can they find you?
• 45:20
  Pippa: Well, thank you so much for asking.
• 45:23
  Pippa: Uh, so we run, within the Disobedient Business Care, we run two main programs.
• 45:28
  Pippa: Um, we run the Disobedient Business School, which is for brand shiny new, um, service based business owners that are either looking to start or have just started, or to be quite honest with you, there's a good measure of folks in there that have been kicking around in this space and are already realizing that it's extractive and this, um, homogenous, this homogenous.
• 45:50
  Pippa: um, advice that's out there doesn't work for them.
• 45:53
  Pippa: So a lot of the folks that we work with in the school are neurodivergent.
• 45:57
  Pippa: Um, or, or, you know, well, it's just, let's just say we're outside of the norm, right?
• 46:02
  Pippa: You know, the, the, the presumed norm, which of course probably isn't, if we were to look at society, the normal tool anymore.
• 46:07
  Pippa: Right.
• 46:07
  Pippa: But.
• 46:08
  Pippa: The ship needs to, um, take a bit.
• 46:10
  Pippa: It's like the Titanic in terms of its ability to change direction.
• 46:14
  Pippa: So you can find us, um, in the school at disobedient business dot school.
• 46:19
  Pippa: It's very much a clue is in the title situation.
• 46:21
  Pippa: And the thing that's probably, um, more relevant to your community perhaps is the mastermind that, uh, you know, all too well.
• 46:30
  Peta: It's amazing.
• 46:31
  Pippa: Which, uh, is disobedientbusiness.
• 46:33
  Pippa: com forward slash mastermind, which is for more established business owners who are looking to, to grow, develop, expand.
• 46:44
  Pippa: Um, you'll very hear me use the word scale because it just makes me feel a little bit sick.
• 46:49
  Pippa: It's right up there with funnel and things like that.
• 46:51
  Pippa: Um, I know they have to exist, but I kind of, I want to give them a nice, uh, a nice name with some flowers to make them not sound quite so shite.
• 47:00
  Pippa: But the mastermind is, uh, a small group container, so we max out at ten people.
• 47:05
  Pippa: Uh, we currently have two vacancies in the mastermind because of, uh, partly some folks moving on.
• 47:10
  Pippa: And partly Pippa not getting off her ass and doing much in the way of marketing over the last couple of months because she's been quite preoccupied with some other things.
• 47:18
  Pippa: So if this kind of stuff really does speak to you, yeah, I would, uh, I'd love to have a chat with you and I will, um, give Peter contact details for you to be able to get in touch with me.
• 47:26
  Peta: The mastermind is possibly the most refreshing place that I've spent time in, in the kind of business world.
• 47:34
  Peta: Um, Pippa never goes, this is the only way that you're going to get this to work.
• 47:39
  Peta: So go and do it.
• 47:40
  Peta: and she's very, um, she's, she's very, very gentle, but also quite like, she's not going to let me sit on my ass.
• 47:50
  Peta: And just like goes along, which is what I need.
• 47:53
  Peta: Um, so when I come to her and go, I've got this really, really great idea.
• 47:57
  Peta: Um, but I don't want to do this, this, this, this, or this to make it work.
• 48:01
  Peta: She goes, okay, uh, let's think of something else.
• 48:08
  Pippa: I, um, the thing that does it still entertains me no end and it's kind of become a bit of a thing now is the fact that whether I'm working with one to one clients or because we work one to one in the mastermind as well, um, or with masterminders or otherwise, I have a tendency to, um, my version of a shit sandwich, but like a consensual shit sandwich.
• 48:27
  Pippa: That is a, okay, but we've got to find a way to make this work.
• 48:30
  Pippa: So we can't just go no to everything.
• 48:32
  Pippa: It's to preface what I'm about to say with lovingly.
• 48:37
  Pippa: And there's always a lovingly comma.
• 48:39
  Pippa: And then I'm about to tell you the thing that you probably didn't want to hear, but you probably didn't need to.
• 48:43
  Peta: Yes, and that is perfect for, for me and the way that my brain works.
• 48:48
  Peta: So yes, if you, if you think that the mastermind could be for you, if you're looking to, yeah, if your business doesn't quite, isn't quite what you would like it to be forever and ever, um, then yeah, talk to Pippa.
• 48:59
  Peta: Um, I'm constantly shouting her out on threads when everybody's like, does anybody know a good business coach?
• 49:04
  Peta: Like, yes, yes, I do.
• 49:06
  Peta: Email her now.
• 49:08
  Peta: Cool.
• 49:09
  Peta: Okay.
• 49:09
  Peta: Well, people need to go and find you then.
• 49:11
  Peta: Um, thank you so much for taking the time to share your soapbox with me and with the right, everybody listening.
• 49:17
  Peta: Um, and yeah, I will see you on our next coaching call.
• 49:21
  Pippa: Oh, thank you for having me.
• 49:22
  Pippa: It was amazing.