Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / How to Transform Your Longevity Strategy in 6 Months Using Holistic Regenerative Approaches with Dr. Jeff Gross

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How to Transform Your Longevity Strategy in 6 Months Using Holistic Regenerative Approaches with Dr. Jeff Gross · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You might have a small benefit from a regenerative medicine approach,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: but if you're not living clean and your your cells
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: are going to flip right back to their bad biology
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: in a minute. So we like to optimize people ahead
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of time. Diet, sleep, exercise strategies, supplements, hormone optimization in
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: some cases, or mesas all of the above. The better
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: your body is receptive to these, the more you'll get
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: out of it.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, before we get into this week's podcast, we
• 0:36
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• 1:44
  Speaker 3: you now. I hover the podcast.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Doctor Jeff Gross, Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: Happy to be here in great meeting you today, Paul,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: and you are as I was just saying, you're the
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: second person in two days that I've interviewed from Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It's a new destination center for migration within the US,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: growing tech, growing other industries, not just casinos. So probably
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: there's a huge migration of Californians who are trying to
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: get away from the disaster of California and Las Vegas
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: and Reno, which you add those two together, you have
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: probably ninety five percent of the Nevaden population our destinations
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: with significant benefits at this time.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's really interesting. So were you an original resident
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of well for many years.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I was a Californian till about two thousand and fifteen
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: or so, and before that, I've lived on the East
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Coast in the Washington DC area. I've lived in the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Midwest in Ohio and for a couple of years in Albuquerque,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: New Mexico.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Wow, you've been around. Yeah. I had to tell you what.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: It's almost like those places that you talked about. It's
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: almost like different countries in the States.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Isn't it. It really is. You know, the different geography.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: You know, you are mountains, We've got the coast, and
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: now I live in the desert.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Jesus gets bloody hot. I've been in Las
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Vegas once. It was twenty years ago. Was a death
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: valley as well. But just even in Las Vegas, God
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: in summer. You know all about it, don't you, Yes, sir,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: so Jeff, we are going to talk about a really
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: interesting topic in medicine, and that's stem cell therapies. It's
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: obviously not without its controversies, but you are extremely well
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: qualified to talk on the subject. I was really interesting
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: your background, having a degree in biochemistry and molecular biology,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: then going on to study medicine and then surgery. So
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: just give us, give the listeners. There's a little bit
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: of a toure of your background and also how you
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: brought yourself to this place to looking at stem cell
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: therapies and longevity benefits. Particularly, thank you.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity. I'll start at the at the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: basic level, and I think I mean this in a
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: positive way. You'll identify with this. I'm a nerd, so
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: when the when the science is interesting, I follow it.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: So so my my undergraduate you know, background is heavily
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: into cellular biology and biochemistry. And then you know, in America,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: you go you go right from undergrad typically to medical school,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: which is another four years, and then residency and fellowship
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: mind was another seven on top of that. So you
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: get so busy and narrowed down the specialty pipeline that
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the molecular biology piece that you know, stimulated your brain
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: so much sort of got you know, put on a shelf.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And I was practicing for this is now my I
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: think twenty fifth year or just started my twenty sixth
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: year of I'm a neurosurgeon and I have a spine specialty.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of neck and backcare. Second opinions.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I'd take on the failed cases that were treated elsewhere,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: and I've always tried to, you know, reduce and avoid surgery,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you know, that being the last option, because we really
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: aren't doing anything differently than we were doing in the
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. Yeah, maybe there's a smaller incision or a
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: new gidget or widget or gadget or something, but it's
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the same approach. So it became frustrated over the years,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: and so did my patients, because my patients would come
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: in and say, hey, we've tried the physiotherapy, we've tried
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the anti inflammatory medications, we've tried the occupuncture of the chiropractic,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the physical training, we've tried maybe even some spinal injections,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: but you know those are all temporary. I'm looking for
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: something that can help me with this ongoing problem, this pain,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: this whatever pinsioner disc issue. I'd say, well, I guess
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the only thing left talk about is what's on the
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: surgical menu. And they'd say, oh, but I'm not ready
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: for that. I'd say, great, I'm happy to hear that,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: but I don't have a lot more to offer you
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: at this time. And they would say, well, how about lasers?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: How about how about crystals? How about stem cells? And
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: you hear it enough times and you you know what,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: what about stem cells? So instead of going to the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: annual you know, spine neurosurgeons meetings, which I had done
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: for decades and didn't you know, nothing was changing. I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: decided to open my mind and go back to my roots,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: and I went to stem cell conferences and got re educated.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: This about six years ago, and I did it to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: offer something new, a new tool to my patient's suffering
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: from neck and back pain and problems. But it has
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: opened up an entire new world for me and people
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: who see me in offering a new option, in tapping
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: back into our own blueprint of what creates us, what
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: heals us, and what maintains us, and using that strategically
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to help repair a problem or help you know, heal
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: or regenerate or slow the aging process of physiologically.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: And biologically interesting. I'll tell you what. My daughter is
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: going to love this, right she is. She's eighteen and
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: about to go to university. And for years she said
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: she wanted to study medicine, and we sent her. Last year,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: my wife found this medical internship in Nepal for want
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to be medical students. So off she went for a
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks to Nepal with a bunch of other
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: want to be medical students. Had a blast. They were
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: shadowing Nepalese doctors in remote Nepal, even in surgery, right.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: And she came back. She had a fantastic time. But
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: she said to me, Dad, I've realized that everybody that
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: was on that course was so passionate about medicine. I've
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: realized that my passion is biology. So she wants to
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: go and study BioMed and we looked into it and
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: there's so many different pathways once you finish your degree
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: in BioMed. And I said to her, all that biological engineering,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: like that's the future, right, and I presume stem cell
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: therapies come under that broad umbrella of biological engineering.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's the biological side of bioengineering. There's the
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: tech side of bioengineering. When you think about elon MUSK
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and neurolink and things like that. So and then there
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: have to be people that help bridge those So I
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: think that there are those faults under that and bro.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome. So give us a bit of an overview
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: of stem cell therapies and particularly the different types. Right,
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  Speaker 2: So I know there's embryonic theory potent, there's adult stem
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: cell therapy. So just give our listeners who maybe not
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: all over this topic, just a bit of a high
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: level overview.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Perfect. So stem cell one oh one is basically it
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: comes in different forms. Although we use the phrase stem cells,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: not everything we do involves the use of stem cells.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: For example, there's a lower level regenerative medicine biologic called
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: PRP or platelet rich plasma, and it comes in different forms.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I've had PRP in an achilles injury and I'm currently
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: recovering from an acl and the sports medicine doctors suggested PRP, right,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: which is why they spin your own blood and pull
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: off the plate reach plasma right.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Right, So what's in that platelet rich plasma are many
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of the things that stem cells make to help you heal.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: They make proteins, peptides, growth factors, proteins that involve the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: production of collagen when you want to help maintain or
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: in your case, heal and injury. And they also put
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: off cell signaling bodies called extracellular vesicles or for short, exosomes.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: So there's concentrated from your blood, they get centrifuged and
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: separated and re delivered into an area that needs more
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: love than it could. You could, your body could give
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: it on its own. So that's great, and that's kind
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of a low level offering that's available almost ubiquitously now
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: in most of the world. Sometimes it takes a few sessions,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and it's certainly easy enough and worth trying before you
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: undergo something more invasive or major, Right, why not try it? Okay?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: So the next step up from that would be to
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: actually deliver stem cells. And stem cells come from two sources,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and those sources would be an adult. Like you said,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you can harvest your own stem cells, hopefully with the
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: help of a clinician. You know, you don't, don't under yourself.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: But it can come from your bone marra. It could
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: come from a you know, fatty tissue and other places,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: but bone is probably the richest source. And you think
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: about it. If a sad case, if a child has
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: leukemia and they have to undergo a complete chemotherapy, killing
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: of the bone marrow and a replacement with a bone
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: marrow donor to save that child. That is a replacement
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: of that child's stem cells in the bone marrow. So
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: now that requires matching because it's such a significant replacement.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: But typically stem cells don't require any matching. They're not rejected.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Theoretically they can be, but I've never seen it or
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: read about it. So they're immunoprivileged. So the immune system says,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: come on in. But the other source is what we
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: call perry natal. Pery natal means it comes from the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: afterbirth products from a mother who is, you know, congratulations,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: here's your baby that we just delivered by c section.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Instead of throwing away the amniotic fluid, the umbilical cord,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: the placenta, can we keep it and use it, you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: in medical purposes. That's how that happens. So it's a
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: very ethical process. There are myths, you know, of some
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: nefarious things happening, you know, but I've ever really seen that.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's more of a smear campaign that pharmaceutical
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: companies and other companies want out there. So that's the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: most active and richest source, Paul. So when you when
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you take your car and you go for an oil change,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't put the old oil back in.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: So I like that young, fresh, bioactive that you know,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: cells and other products that aren't affected by years of
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: electromagnetic waves and toxins in the pollutants and whatever. We
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you know, neuro stress from giving yourself the wrong mental
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: signals and.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: All that because not Jeff, sorry to interrupt. It is
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: one of the mechanisms of aging is stem cell exhaustion,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: isn't it. So that's why those embryonic stale sales are
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: those ones that you're talking about. They're cleaner if you
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: like stem sales set.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the most active because they have not been
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: ruined by the world in the environment, and they're as
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: naive and active as they come. Now we call these
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: perinatal embryonic is actually involved in the embryo making a
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: feed in and you can induce certain these stem cells
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: at the time of a birth or an adult back
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: into the embryonic state. There's a Nobel prize about how
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: to do that. And those cells have even more power
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and we're learning how to harness them. And only very
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: certain circumstances are those in use in the world, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: here in the us A they are. They are under
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: research and they're called you know, induced pluripotent stem cells,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: which are more of an embryonic state. Now, those are
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the cells someday that are going to help us regrow
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: a finger or a limb or an organ better than
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: what we have right now?
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Are they some of the ones that you can you
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: hear some people go into Mexico to get done or yeah, okay, cool, Yeah, So.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Let's take let's take that comment for a minute and
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: build on it. In the US we're actually late to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the game. Europe and Asia are way ahead in the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: regenerative medicine field, and most of the professional athletes who
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: needed some type of stem cell based treatment would go
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: to Europe for decades, right, you know, Tiger Woods, Peyton
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: manning some of these players. And if you read the
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Asian literature, and a lot of the good clinical medicine
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: that we follow here in US are based on studies
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: with years of follow up that are done in these
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: other countries. Mexico and Central America is a little less regulated,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: but they also have access to not only we'll call
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: them multipotent stem cells, which are usually the ones at
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: birth or thereafter, but they do, like you said, have
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: access to these induced embryonic state stem cells. So that's
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a growing idea. And then back to the underlying question
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: here is there's a third level of regenerative medicine, and
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: that's based on these cell signaling particles called extracellular vesicles
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: or exosomes that stems and in fact all cells produce,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: but the actual work that one's own body does, that
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: needs a little re encouragement to behave at a more
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: youthful restorative you know, anti inflammatory status comes from these
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: stem cells signaling. So, Paul, if I gave you in
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: your vein a dose of stem cells in ten to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: fourteen days, they be gone, but the benefits would last
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: weeks and months, if not some of the benefits permanent.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Why is that because those stem cells have produced and
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: delivered these exosomes full of heat shock proteins and peptides
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and growth factors and re education and encouragement to their
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: neighboring cells of your body that does the actual work.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: So we're now skipping ahead of stem cells. So the
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: latest and greatest are these stem cells derived exosomes, And
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: they have advantages. They're less costly, they penetrate the body better,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: they can cross the blood brain barrier and get into
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the brain. They are also more easily handled and stored
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and they don't have anyone else's DNA and some people
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: like that, and these are just generic. We have some
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: designer ones coming that are available in China that I
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: think will be fantastic. You know, some for helping build
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: muscle mass, which is correlated with longevity, helping improve bondency.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Some are from the immune cells that help identify and
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: remove abnormal cells like sinessence cells and cancer cells. So
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: we are just at the forefront.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Interest interesting that the exosomes are really coming to the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: forefront eye. I did interview a professor who's in the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: area of exosomes and we were talking about the interaction
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: with miokinds produced in muscle yes and exosomes and how
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: they work together.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're singing my song there. Myokinds are amazing. And
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: one way to stimulate your own stem cells is move exercise.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: You know, we call this hormesis where you give the
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: body a little bit the stress to build resilience when
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: your body, you know, needs it, and that helps release
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: stem cells. It helps clear out zombies and essence cells
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: which are taking up space and resources but not doing
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: any good, so that you have a younger population of cells.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And when you do you have a younger you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: physiologic body and this can be measured in biological age
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: tests through certain markers and probably with the biofitness bioage
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: fitness testing that you do.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yes, interesting and very interesting that you mentioned hormesis.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: We could go down that rabbit hole, which we won't,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: and I'm about to start a lab with Professor Grant
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Scofield called the Hormesis Lab, love it, where we are
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: looking at hormetic interventions to enhance health span. Right, so
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: it's his exercise saun a cold exposure. You know, these
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: small It's amazing how the body adapts to small doses
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of stressors, right right. It's through the signaling, the cellular
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: signaling that all of this takes place, right, which is
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: why you're obviously so interested in this area. So talk
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: to you about some of the use kisses, both currently
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the stuff that you do and that others are doing
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: in those use cases, and then we'll come back to
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: some potential future use cases. But let's give us the
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: state of play right now.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Right, So, the low hanging fruit all is muscular skeletal
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: structural things like joints, particularly degenerated joints. Loss of cartilage, osteoarthritis,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: or bone on bone. Those are all part of the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: same package. We follow a French protocol whereby the fifteen
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: year follow up clinical data was published a few years back,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: so they're probably ready to publish their twenty year in
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: which at that time they only had stem cells. Exosomes
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: are only available in the last five or five or
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: eight years, depending on what part of the world. So
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: they injected stem cells into patients knees who were already
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: recommended a knee replacement surgery. So they took patients they said,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: you need to need replacement, Well, wait a minute, would
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: you like to join our study to try not to
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: have one? So they had no problem signing up people.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And this is doctor Philippe Hernegeau. I probably mispronounced that,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: but University of Paris East, an orthopedic surgeon who published this,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and they did half the patients they injected into the
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: cartilage of the joint, and we use the word intra
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: articular when we do that, and half the patients got
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: it into the bone edge just above them below the joint,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: which is called the subchondri bone. It's an old leftover
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: part of the growth plate. But you know it lives
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: in there. The cells that produce cartilage, they're called chondrocytes,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and those cells are the cells that produced that cartilage,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that meniscus, that acl in the first place. And they
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: found over fifteen years that the best results and longest
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: lasting results come from and injecting the bone edges. So
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: that's what we do. You might say, wait a minute,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: the bone injection. That sounds painful. Well, we do give
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: a little twilight sedation for that, and it's usually a
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: one and done in most cases, and there's no downtime.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: You can go right back to sports. You'd be sore
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: for a week, but what have you go back to
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: your thing. And we've seen, you know, months down the line,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: we have some patients we've done some MRIs after the
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: fact and we've seen restoration in cartilage thickness and improvement
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that goes with that in pain and improvement and functions.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: So we are seeing a reversal and a regeneration of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the cartilage of the joint because we're putting in a
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: factory order to the factory for some new cartilage in
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: a person whose body, like you said, is stem cells
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: are exhausted. Otherwise they would have healed it themselves already.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That for somebody like you used to doing surgery.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: When you see that and done those operations, that must
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: just blow your mind.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: It's a renewal of my interest in clinical medicine because
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I was in a rut doing these same surgeries over
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and over again, or trying to keep people away from them.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: You know, here's a very simple way that we can
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: help people without surgery, not in every case, but in
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: many cases, or maybe push out the surgery because there
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: are always new things coming, push it out ten years
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: and by then we have another stem cell solution. So
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: it's been wonderful and remarkable. I wish I had this
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: tool my entire career.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: So knaseed hips would obviously lend themselves to this very
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: very strongly. And the amount of knee and hip replacements
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: that are to is just ridiculous. What about the spine
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: as well, because I know, you know, in extreme cases
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: when people have long term spinal issues, sometimes they get
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: spinal fusion, which my understanding has a hit rate of
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: around our success rate of around fifty percent. I think
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: there was some Harvard doctor who did placebo operations and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: got similar results from.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know who would sign up for the placebo spine.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no exactly, but has it got use cases there
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: in spinal difficulties as well.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, the key to understanding the spine, because it's
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: a complex structure, is to know exactly where the pain
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: is coming from. Is it coming from a disk source,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Is it coming from a facet joint, which are the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: joints in the back of the spine. Is it coming
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: from both or something else, or has the spine become
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: debilitated whether aren't the muscular support. So we have to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: come to an understanding, and we have to you know,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: practically test that sometimes with some numbing shots to see
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: what temporarily resolves pain. And based on that, based on
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a good exam, based on some high quality MR images
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: done in a very special way, we put all that
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: information together and come with some kind of plan. Not
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: everyone we can. If we can treat part of it
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and that's good enough to keep someone away from surgery,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: that could be something we do. So we treat plenty
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of spines. Spines take longer, usually nine months or more
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: to improve. This is my observation. We'll collect all these
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: someday and publish them but I'm not. I don't have
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: a reason why that is, but except that spinal disc
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: isn't like a nimaniscus. Spinal disc has two different forms
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of cartilage, and I think that's part of the reason.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So we're learning more about it all the time.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely more complicated than nas and hips, and
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: so let's not talk about just overall the difference between
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the benefits of these regenerative treatments versus the typical medical approaches.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So you've mentioned their return to daily activities, that's one benefit.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: What other benefits d you see other than like avoiding surgery? Right,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: So I had a actually, let's take I recently, a
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: couple of years ago, had a hip resurfacing, right, and
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: the rehab took quite a while. It took quite a
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: few months. I'm not a couple of years, and the
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: hip feels fantastic. But that ain't gonna last forever, right,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to go and revisit that at some stage.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: So talk about what some of the other benefits would
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: be other than quicker recovery.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Well, besides the you know, the quicker recovery, least, lesser invasion,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: less risk of infection, and less. Yeah, you don't have
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the long recovery, you don't need a bunch of pain
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: medicines after, and potentially a reduced costs because if you
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're someone who has to recover from
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: a surgery and miswork, miss income, you know, pain and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: suffering that goes with that. I mean, at the end
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: of the day, these procedures are are more affordable, especially
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: using the stem cell derived exosomes and related growth factors.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: They're they're less costly than stem cells in some cases.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: For example, if we did a knee and it required
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: a dose above and a dose below, usually something like
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: that is in the ten to twelve thousand dollars US
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: dollar range includes everything. So that's you know, you look
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: at a you know, a knee surgery depending on what
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: your health insurance may or may not cover. Here in
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the US, it's complex. They have deductibles you have to meet,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and cope's and things. You may be saving money doing
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the regenerative medicine approach.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the other thing is that you don't
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: have any foreign bodies inside. You read yesterday, Actually some
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: cases in the UK were hip joints that they had
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: put in were actually leaking out toxins and causing really
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: poor health. I remember, they're going to not going shit,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: what type of joint was that. I've I've got obviously
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: foreign bodies in there. I've got metal in my body.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: You're not introducing foreign bodies in there. Now, generally these
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: things are pretty See if I think that was just
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: one type of hip joint that had it had a
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: couple of different joins and that was the issue with it.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: But that's got to be a benefit if you're not
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: introducing foreign substances into the body.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely true. You know, all of those things have
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: frictional wear and and material you know, failure over time.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And the other benefit here with going in a regenerative
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: injectional route is you know, you talk about like you're resurfacing.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Anytime you go into a joint to trim some cartilage
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: or you know, try to help in a regular surface
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: become more regular so it moves smoother. You're actually increasing
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the development of osteoarthritis. You know, some doctors just use
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: the word arthritis in that joint. Over time, Yes, you
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: have benefit for a while, but you're accelerating the process.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: So we seek to do the reverse of that. Right,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: So we would take someone like you, and I would
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: have loved to have you. You know, at the time
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: of your resurfacing inject you know, the surface, the edge
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: of the bone and the ball of your hip joint
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: and maybe even also the receptor part the cup of
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: the joint with the regenerative biologics. You're still candidate, but
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that would be what we would do to try to improve. Now,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: now that you have a nice shape in your hip,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: we want to help you produce and maintain that joint,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: better lubricate it, better produce the proteins and growth factors
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: and the collagen and the cartilage in there to help
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: restore interesting.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I think when the other hips roady, I'll be coming
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about your journey and when you were
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: shifting across from the traditional stuff. What were some of
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the challenges that you went through.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Well, some people, you know, are completely dependent on their
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: health insurance here in the US, and they don't have
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the resources, even though these are reasonably affordable compared to
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: most things, so some people have trouble with that. Luckily,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: we've been able to work with some charitable programs. There's
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: a there's a Veterans group, we support being able to
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: provide some you know, pro bono care. There there are
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: some people who think that they're that these procedures are
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: illegal because we are not allowed in the US to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: make marketing claims that we're curing or treating anything. Certainly,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: doctors can't give guarantees about anything, but we're very cautious
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: not to make claims. So anything we say here today,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Paul is for educational purposes and and I'm allowed to
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: speak to anecdotal results, which I have, and but I'm
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: not allowed to make a claim. So despite what you
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: think in the US about free speech, it's uh, there
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: are limitations.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Is that different to you doing surgery? Could you make
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: our ours? That? Is that the same across the board
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: that you can't make claims. Are they particularly tight on
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: stem cell therapies?
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I think the stem cell therapies are
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: an exciting area for governmental regulation. I don't know if
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: there are any tighter but doc aren't supposed to make
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: claims about anything that hasn't been given approval for said claims.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And these these are usually drugs and devices. So a
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: surgery is unregulated by the FDA, by the government regenerative
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: medicine is regulated and there are no yet any approvals.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: There are no disapprovals. Just so we're clear. It's sort
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: of this in limbo state.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Right, got it? Interesting type rope that you've got to
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: walk in. And then let's just talk about other potential
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: use cases. So you're in a particular area, but I
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: have seen the some potential for stem cell therapies for
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: like diabetes, neurodegenerative disorders, those sorts of things. Get just
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: give our listeners. I know it's not your particular specialization,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: but just you know, what's the potential here.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, we we do some of this too. You
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: can you cannot be in the regenerative medicine fel to
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: not you know, easily expand into other areas. But we
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: have IV treatments for people who have any type of
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: inflammatory burden. Inflammatory is a code word for you know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: degeneration of the cell, the tissues the body, which is
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: another theory of aging, right, this whole inflammating. So anything
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: we can do to slow, reverse reverse the inflammatory activities
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: inside of a cell, we call that cellular metabolism and
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: flip it into an anti inflammatory mode, which is more
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: of an optimal mode. And optimal mode heals better, restores,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: maintains the adult bodies. So that's what we're seeking. So
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: we do IV for people with organ damage with type
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: two diabetes that has an inflammatory component. Most of the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: diseases of aging are diseases of inflammation. Right coronary artery disease,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: have the plaques, has an inflammatory component, Alzheimer's disease, misfolded
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: proteins has an inflammatory component. We look at osteoarthritis we've
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: talked about of course has a huge inflammatory component. And
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: then people with inflammatory issues in general like autoimmune you know,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: flammatory bowel problems, exzema, psoriasis, other arthritis type problems, thyroid problems,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and certain infections that are known to have a very
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: hyper inflammatory reaction like COVID nineteen and line disease. I
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: don't know if you have that in your part of
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: the world. Okay, these are things we see that are
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: quite helpful. And then recovery from stroke and heart attack,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you know, there's an inflammatory component. And even after traumatic
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: brain injury, we're seeing some benefits now using the exosomes.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Wow, So the exosomes go into the IV.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: They can do IB and the other way to give
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: them into the brain. Is nasal spray.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's some really interesting stuff coming out on
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: nasl spray. Somebody was talking me the other day about
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: BDNF in the nasole spray. I'm like, what, because that
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: is direct access to the brion, isn't it.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: It is? There are a couple of different ways to
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: you know, get to the brain through the back of
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the nose. There's a ganglion in the back of the nose,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: but the cribber form plate, which is where you know
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: there's nerves that transmit smell sneak up into the skull
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and get to that part of the brain. We're using
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: that little railway, if you will.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: That is an absolute game changer, right. I was a
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: little bit aware of stem cells. There's there's so much
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: regulation here in Australia, like trying to get stem cells
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: orotpy in Australia. That this is why Australians go to
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: whether they go to Mexico, Panama or the United States,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: if they want something that's a little bit less controversial
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and more regulated, but that that delivery through ivy of exosomes.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: That is a potential game changer for so much stuff
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: because as you rightly say. If you look at most
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: chronic diseases have an inflammatory component, and it is one
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: of the major ways that we use is that cellular inflammation.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So you can actually target certain types of information or
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: inflammation in certain areas. Or does it just when you'd
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: introduce the exosomes through an IV does it just have
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: wide spread effects throughout the whole system. Give me a
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: little bit of a steer on it.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So stem cells tend to target areas of inflammation.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Exosomes are not so smart they go everywhere. They just
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: go to the wherever. But because they are so small,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: not that cells aren't small, that these are. You know,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: they're called nanoparticles because they're measured in diameter by nanometers,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: so there are a thousand times smaller than a cell,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: which is measured in microns. So these particles just they
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: diffuse as if they're part of the fluid. The problem
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: with stem cells IV is such a large percentage of
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: that does first goes up the vein to the heart,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: then to the lungs, then back to the heart to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: get pumped to the body. Turns out those cells are
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: sticky and the heart lung heart shuttle can take eighty
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: percent or more of those cells and the body is
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't get the type of volume of those cells that
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: we desire.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: That's interesting, okay. And the exosomes that they behave differently
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: are are they.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: They're just they're part of the fluid of the plasma
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of the blood and they just they're not sticky. They
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: just go wherever and they don't get hung up because
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: of their size and stickiness. Stickiness could be the receptors
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and things. Exosomes have minimal, if any receptors on them.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Wow, that is fascinating. And are there any known negative
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: effects of exisomes going throughout the entire body?
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: So the only issues you have besides you know pain
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: at the IV side or you know, bleeding from the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: IV site is if you harbor a lot of inflammation already,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: whether it's limes disease or something. Your cells store produce
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: and store cells signaling proteins called cytokinds that call for
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the immune system. This is the whole cytokind storm during COVID, right,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and your body has to get rid of those. So
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: when you get the stem cell derived exosomes, those cells
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: have to flip over their factory machinery from defense mode
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: to peace time, from inflammation to anti inflammation. When they
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: do that, they still have to purge out that old
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the stock on the shelves, if you will. And so
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: some people as they release those, have a day or
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: two of a flu like set of symptoms, not the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: flu itself, but flu like syndrome. Of you have a
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: low grade fever. You can have aches and pains, you
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: can be sleepy and sluggish because those going into your
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: bloodstream and they have to go out your body. So
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: as you're flipping over, turning over a new leaf, if
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you will. In the minority of patients, we do see.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: That with IV okay, but no big long term issues. Now.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: That then opens the door in my mind and tell
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong. From somebody coming in and going
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I have a particular inflammatory issue, to someone coming in
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: and going, hey, I'm in my fifties, I feel good,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: but I want to go from good to great.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Yes. So we have the biohacking crowd.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I'm one of them. I do them.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I do IV exosomes on myself four times a year,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: just because you know, preventative. We have some even younger people,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: some people in their upper twenties who want to stay
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: young because the earlier you start, the better, and they
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: don't always feel a difference. People with a lot of
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: information will tend to feel a difference. More energy you need,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: more cognitive you know, sharpness recovery after workouts has improved.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: But the young people will say, I don't really feel much.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: But I had one young athlete who tracks his heart
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: rate variability HRV. I can't remember what device he was using,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: maybe a whoop band or something, or or a ring.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: He said, I don't really feel much. But the next
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: day he sent me a snapshot of his HRV which
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: had jumped without any other intervention by fifty which is,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: as you probably know, huge, right. So we've seen that
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: in multiple people as an observation, so we know there
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: is a physiologic benefit to the stem cell derived exystems
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: even if you don't feel it.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then this is the thing, right,
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: if people don't feel that people there are people walking
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: around with chronic disease who are not aware of it.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Like it's not like chronic disease just happens overnight. The processes,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the cellular mechanisms are there for decades right before people
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: feel any type of symptoms. So that's really interesting. So
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: for the skeptics in this area, there are there's quite
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: a few skeptics, right, there's the believers and the non believers.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: And what's your message to these skeptics.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll you'll be surrounded on your deathbed by the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: non skeptics. So it's it'll play out on its own.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: So you know, listen, you know, we try to post
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: our success stories, uh, you know, on our social media,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: so people we interview patients, you know, tell us what
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you feel, what you've gotten out of this. That doesn't
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: mean everyone gets that result, but you know, hippocratic oath says,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: we have to try to help people with our knowledge, right,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't want to let, you know, government over
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: regulation or naysayers, you know, detract from my fulfilling my oath.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: So this is just an in advancement on what I
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: can do for people who are interested. It's an option.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: It's not the only option. No one's going to twist
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: your arm to do it. If you're skeptical, do your homework.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Search all the clinical publications in medical journals on a
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: certain topic and see what's out there. Look at the
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: biology of it. Just because it's not being done everywhere
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's wrong. Think about when someone said, hey,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: we've got this mold, it's going to help cure bacterial infection.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: People probably thought penicillin was a little wacky at the
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: beginning too.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, but that is the best answer I've
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: ever heard. You're going to be Surroundedn't your fight nonst
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: rafts cracky? So let's talk about the with this regenerate
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: medsine and particularly what you're doing the interaction with lifestyle,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: because you could see the potential for some people to go, oh,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: you know what, I don't need to worry about exercise
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: and healthy eating. I'll just go and get my stem
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: cells are exosomes done on an ivy every couple of months,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and then it'll be good.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, it's it's the whole package. Right. If you
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: might have a small benefit from a regenerative medicine approach,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: but if you're not living clean and your your cells
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: are going to flip right back to their bad biology
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: in a minute. So you know, we we like to
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: optimize people ahead of time, diet, sleep, exercise strategies, supplements,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Hormone optimization in some cases or misis all of the above.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: The better your body is receptive to these, the more
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: you'll get out of it, and the more and the
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: more prolonged response.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Theoretically, and in terms of the length of the benefits,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: presumably that depends on the state of the individual that's
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: coming in. I'm guessing, but.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: It's just like a degenerated joint. If we see, you know,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of an end stage worn down joint, what we call
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: bone on bone, generally speaking, it's gonna take a lot
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: more to help that person get the regenerative benefits they're
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: looking for. If someone is only partially degenerated and starting
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to have symptoms on the earlier side, then there's a
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: lot less travel that has to be done to get
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: that joint to improve. So we like to get to
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: things earlier. Although I wouldn't turn away someone bone on bone,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: because if I can help someone avoid a knee replacement
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: or hip replacement or shoulder replacement or something, I think
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: that I think that's a good service.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Now, interesting question here, because I was, just as you
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: were talking about it, thinking about some of the recent
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: research you may be aware of that said that humans
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: seem to age it's not linear. There was that paper
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: that was released saying that there seemed to be a
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: couple of aging spurts, one in the early forties, one
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: around sixty, and then there was another paper I find
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: that there was seem to be a third one around
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: seventy eight or eighty. That first study didn't follow people
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: to that age, So there's this suggestion now that aging
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: is not linear. I think that study needs to be
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: repeated because the sample size was relatively small. Right, there's
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: all these headlines around it. But if true and it
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: seems to be certainly within that population, does that then
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: suggest that there would be optimal times of your life
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: forgetting this, or if you were talking to your younger self,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: would you be saying, hey, to just start this really early?
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Like what? So, I guess what I'm asking, when do
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: you start to see those signs of significant cellular wir
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: in te where this sort of interventions would be the
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: best buying for your buck in terms of the marie
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: you're going.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: It's a great question. It's a it's a thought question.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: So I think what we need to know is more
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: about why we have these we'll call it steep falloffs
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: in you know, cellular activity in the forties and in
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the sixties, because nothing in biology is truly linear anyway. Yes,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: and so is it because you know we we deplete
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: you know, stem cell activity. Is it because of hormonal
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: changes or is it the perfect storm of more than
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: one of these things? And in biology it always is, right,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a combination of competing factors. So if
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: we could, if we could start regenerative medicine before that first,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and before that's can peak, can we push that peak
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: off in time? I think that is really the strategy here.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean in the middle of one of those
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: big cliffs of the aging process we couldn't help someone
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: slow or you know, lessen the height of the cliff
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: on the curve either. But I think you have to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: start early and often and get ahead of it in
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: a preventative manner, which is really what good medicine is
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: all about. Is promoting health and wellness and preventing illness
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: not having to treat it is the big win.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Wow, now you are taught. That's very controversial, Jeff. You're
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: talking about a healthcare system rather than a sick car
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: system there, because in this Cardana, I'm pretty sure it's
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: very similar in the States. In this country, ninety seven
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: or ninety eight percent of all government healthcare spending is
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: on tertiary treatment, and there's very very little on primary
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: and secondary prevention. I often say, we don't have a
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: health care system in this country. We have a sick
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: cur system in this country.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, same here. You know, it's even if they spent
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: more money here in the US on preventative care, they
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: would also in parallel have to remove all the nasty
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: inclusions in our food source and water and EMPs and
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: all kinds of things going on. So it's going to
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: take more than just preventive healthcare. It's going to take
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: preventative behaviors for our entire population.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely so, given that the amazing advances and
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: technology that are happening right now, you know, going even
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: in this field, going from stand cells to the end
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: harnessing x zones, what do you think the future trajectory
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: is for this longevity regenerative medicine, call it whatever you want.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I like to call it. I like to focus on
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: the health span rather than the lifespan. But given that
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: your finger is well and truly on the pulse here,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: what do you think future stey it looks like.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the future is already here in some places,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: just not here in the US. But we're working on
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: some projects here in my own clinic to get what
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: we call designer exosomes. These are exisomes that would be
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: chalk full of mitochondria, for example, to donate donate those
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: mitochondria to cells whose mitochondria are less functional, not only
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: for mitochondria disease, but for frailty and to help improve
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: muscle mass. As you know, muscle mass and boneens are
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: correlated with longevity and also brain function. The brain is
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: highly dependent on mitochondria, and I think we need to
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: spend more time giving mitochondria our love, and if we
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: take care of mitochondria, we are taking care of ourselves.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: So those will be designer exosomes. The other one we're
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: working closely with now and hope to have very soon
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: are a certain subpopulation of exosomes come from immune cells.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: And these immune cells, these specific T cells, their job
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: is to identify and remove by cell death certain abnormal
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: cells like cancer cells. So you can imagine we have
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: these targeted exosomes that can help help someone address a
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis and whether it's a solid tumor or a
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: circulating tumor. And these are in addition to you know,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: some of the things that are becoming online here now
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: these called car T cells where they train kind of
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: these these regenerative cells through a process to identify and
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: remove cancer cells. It's almost like your own vaccinated cells
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: come in and do the job. That's another angle. And
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: then as I mentioned earlier, these induced pluropotent more embryonic
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: cells that as you probably saw in the news in
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: the last few months in China, they cured a person
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: of diabetes type one. They did it by using some
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: of these induced pluropotent cells. So those cells have more
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: ability to do. We just need to control them safely.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: That's some of the limitations on those right now.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: That's really interesting, and I think obviously the brain has
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: then got to be a target because as we what
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: we see in Australia and I would imagine it's very similar,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: there is the massive rise in dementia as a killer.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: And I think there's a couple of things that are
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: behind that. Right is number one, unhealthy behaviors that people have.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: But secondly, as we live longer, right as the population
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: is living longer, neurodegenertive diseases and cancers almost become something
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: that's going to be locked in, right because of just
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: that overall we're.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: In terror of the body, right, agreed. Listen, the older
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: we live, the more degenerative problems we are for facing.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: So the earlier we can start some type of regenerative
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: behaviors in our lifestyle and our food and maybe even
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: augmentative regeneritive therapists like we're talking about today, to help
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: slow that process, that would be a game changer. It
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: might push the problem down the line. And I think
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: you could do to delay the formation of the generative
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: diseases gives us a chance to learn about them more
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and have a new solution for them ten or twenty
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: years from now.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: What's your thoughts? So a little bit off pace this question, right,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: So in the whole longevity medicine space, there are some
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: people who are really focused on enhancing health span, and
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: then there's the other crowd that are focused on enhancing
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: lifespan and who believe that it's possible and that we're
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: going to see human beings live to one hundred and
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: fifty two hundred years old. You have some people talking
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: about that. What's your view on this? Opinion. Right, this
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: is obviously a hypothetical question.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Yep, Well, listen, if you all your time and efforts
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: full time, we're dedicated to living longer, those things that
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: make you live longer will also make you healthier. So
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: you're working towards life span, is really also working towards
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: health span. But you're right, we don't want to just
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: live longer and be laid up in a nursing home
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: for decades at the end of our life, right. We
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: want our we want our health span to fill our
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: lifespan with really, so they end at the same time. So,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: you know, if you had to like a Brian Johnson,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: his full time endo it you know, he he does
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: have a propensity to live beyond one fifty and so forth.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: He's doing everything perfectly right, He's Yeah, he's basically like
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: a pristine you know car that never leaves the garage
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: or gets an oil change every day whether it needs
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: it or not. You know, so it's going to last longer,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: it's going to you know, people talk about escape velocity
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: where we're going to live forever.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Talks about escape velocity, Right, I don't.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Know what that's going to teake. I'm not seeking that.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know that anyone. You know, a few people
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: may have that desire at some point. You know, we're
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: talking more about you know, the sci fi and things
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: like that, but that doesn't mean that you're not going
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: to be less fiction in the future. I'm not working
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: towards escape velocity. But everything we do to you know,
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: push health span and longevity, we will see people we
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: already we already have people living into the one hundred
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and twenties. We will see one hundred and fifties in
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: subgroups of lifelong good behavioring good behavior people who are
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: doing all the right things along the way. And then
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: maybe some strategies on top of that with stem cells
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: and what have you.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, So you think that that is quite quite
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: a possibility, And right right now I'm interested until that's proven. Right,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in you designing these designer XI zomes that
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: will KP me healthy and vital, and then as soon
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: as I head one hundred, they all explode and I
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: that's it. I'm just done.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah, I don't think we're quite know yet
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: time living it.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So talk about you know what you guys do
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: the resale stuff. Are you making sure that you're right
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: on the bleeding edge of all of this stuff.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Well, a few things. One is we only use the
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: highest quality biologics. So the stem cell drived exostomes we
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: have come from young, healthy mothers that are screened in
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: their first trimester and can't be drinking, can't be smoking,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: they can't be having high risk behaviors. They have to
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: be non vaccinated for COVID not because that's necessarily bad,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: it's just we just don't know enough. We haven't had
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: enough time to understand the full linkture of that. So
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: just to remove that variable, we're using unvaxed donors, and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: then those those tissues go to a highly competent and
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: certified lab where they're tested in screen for all diseases.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: So we're only using the best of the best.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And tell our list is why mother's frite, why females?
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Why to just give our listeners a sense of that.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Because females have wombs, and those wombs produce the best
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: stem cells when it's creating and developing a fetus. So
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: we're taking from the amniotic fluid, the growth factors, the proteins,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: the peptides, the exosomes, and we're getting them in a
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: concentrated way. That's why I mean, that's what I prefer you.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: You could take stem cells or you could probably even
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: derive exisomes from a man, but you have to send
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: them off and it's very expensive and doesn't doesn't make twist. Okay,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: we take them from the baby factories basically, yeah, yeah, okay.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: And do you guys use peptides as well as stem
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: cells and exosomes.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It just to be clear, most peptides. Our bodies
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: make peptides, stem cells derive peptides. Exisomes are chalk full
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: of peptides. We also use exogenous peptides, supplemental peptides. Usually
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: if you're here something you want, the Wolverine protocol, the
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: BPC one fifty seven TB five hundred copper peptid. There
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: are so many out there. We are learning more and
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: more about them all the time, and.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: The FDA are starting to come down a little bit
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: on peptides. Have you any concern about the FDA coming
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: down on exisomes in the future.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the listen anything that the FDA is coming
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: down on without a foundational basis, meaning they're disregarding the lurture.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: There's got to be another reason for that, and you
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: got to follow all of the influences and the money
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: for that. But the FDA says they do regulate these things.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Doctors do not prescribe peptides. We can coach and recommend
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: them and people have to obtain them on their own,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: which is easy. And then for the exisomes, we're very
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: very careful that we aren't making any claims marketing claims
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: that we're curing or treating something because we want to
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: remain compliant with the FDA regulates.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I can imagine there's a fur bit of frustration in
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: your field and people like you around the limitations that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: are placed on you know, what you can access, what
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: you can do for your patients.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I think that the patients who are inclined to
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: look into these treatments understand that they are newer to
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: the US. We share with our patients all the clinical
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: literature that they're interested in, usually that's from Asia or
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: from Europe. We show them what people are doing. They
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: are approved by the way. In the States. There's one
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: state that this past may put into effect a law
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: that was passed a little bit earlier that does approve
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the use of regenerative biologics, and that's the state of Utah. So,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: like a lot of crazy things in the US, we're
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: sort of at civil war right where the federal government
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: has one opinion, the individual state or states have others.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's really interesting. So give our listeners
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: just a little bit of a guidance around those who
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: want to explore regenerative treatments. What sort of guidance would
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: you give somebody who's thinking about this particularly, You know,
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: a large part of my audience is in Australia where
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: we can't access clinics like yours, So what sort of
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: guidance would you give people in general and who are
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: interested in this area, because for me it's a very
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: interesting area. But do you know talking about xisomes, that's
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: like wow, this is game changing stuff.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Well, if you're in Australia and you are you want
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: to stimulate your own exosomes, you can exercise, do yoga.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: They stimulate stemsar release, which stimulates the exosome activity. You
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: can imbibe exosomes there. You can get exosomes from healthy
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables. Plants you can have them from they're
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: very rich in bone marrow or bone broth. They're very
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: rich in colosstrum. They're available in milk, well closs from
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: its better mother's milk, the first milk. In some cultures
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: people actually eat the placenta, so yes, yeah, right, and
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: it's placental capsules or things like that make you be
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: animal as well, have to be human. So that's one
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: way to get some axisomes into your body. And then
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: if you're interested in something you know more direct than supplemented,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: like what we do here, do your homework so you know,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: use your your internet searches, search for the kinds of
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: things you are looking to address, whether it's anti aging
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: or knee degeneration, or you know, lupus or what have you,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and type in the word stem cells, lupus, what have you.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: If you type in exosomes instead of stem cells, you're
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: not going to get as much literature. We do translate
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of a stem cell type of clinical reports
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: from years gone by into axisomes, since stem cells are
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: really the delivery of exisomes. And then see what's out there,
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: and if you find something interesting, see where they're doing it,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: you know, and are you willing to travel? I suppose
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: that might be a way.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: I think lots of people will be willing to travel,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: so presumably people from overseas can come to your clinic
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: sure and get these exosome I these or our treatments
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: for particular stuff. So work this, Jeff. This has been
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: absolutely fascinating. Where can people go to learn more about
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: what you do specifically and your clinic and the treatments
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: that are on offer.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Paul. The practice name is called re Celebrate
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: because we're celebrating the renewal of ourselves. So that's brilliant,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: and that's why we walk the dog at night so
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: we can come up with these ideas.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: It's spelled r e c e l L for sell
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: e b r A te And if you type that
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: in your search browser, you will find us. I think
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: I'm the only person using that word in that spelling.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Our clinic name. That's that's our website, that's our Instagram,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: that's our Facebook, that's our LinkedIn, that's our whatever. We
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: have a YouTube. Just type that in you'll find it.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Ya'll tell you what the day that when you were
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: walking the dog and you came up with that. I'm
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: sure you come home and jumped on to see if
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: that demand name was taken that ought to be in
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: You're just like, yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. I
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: probably bought it, you know, on the walk, you know,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: got into my account, checked it out. It's available, go
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: you know by right then and there. So you're exactly right.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: That is brilliant, Je. Look, this must be for you
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: particularly exciting, right, and a new lease of life for
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: your career, right, so you're re celebrating your career very
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: good as well as do all of this stuff. So
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: it must be must be so cold to be on
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: the bleeding edge, but also to just be able to
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: intervene with people in a pretty non indasive way compared
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: to some of the other traditional treatments and just see
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: people walking out of your office in completely different health
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: than they walked in. That's going to be cool.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: It's wonderfully rewarding, and you're you're absolutely right. I have
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: a shot of regenerative activity into my own professional life.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: So thank you you well player.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Excellent Jeff, keep up your great work. I'm sure there's
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: so many people that will benefit. And uh, it's got
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: to be very exciting to be just on the bleeding
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: edge here.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Great Thank you for having this has been great.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: I think I think you've got yourself at least one
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: future patient out of this podcast. I can tell you
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: that right now be happy to help you