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Tamsen Fadal on the Menopause Symptoms Women Aren’t Warned About: Brain Fog, HRT, and Reclaiming Midlife · hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

• [00:00:00] Dr. Taz: What's happening with women in menopause? [00:00:02] Tamsen Fadal: How is none of this information out there? Why aren't [00:00:05] people talking about it? How do we get information? What do we do? Why do we think hormones are doing? You know, what, what do we do? [00:00:10] There's a lot we don't know, but I definitely know what my end goal is. My end goal is, is to close some of those gaps when it [00:00:15] comes to research dollars, to access to information, to making sure that women know what's going [00:00:20] on, and to making sure the generation coming up behind us knows what, what's going on. [00:00:23] Tamsen Fadal: Lifestyle changes are gonna be [00:00:25] important. Supplementation might be important. Yeah. Exercise, under lifestyle, uh, sleep, [00:00:30] stress, you know, all those different things, you know, how we work out. [00:00:33] Dr. Taz: Really, the answer is in [00:00:35] personalization. Mm-hmm. 100%. Please join me in welcoming Tamsen [00:00:40] Fadal, an Emmy Award-winning journalist, author, documentary filmmaker, and social [00:00:45] media's midlife mentor. After more than three decades as a news anchor, Tamsen [00:00:50] made the bold decision to pivot her career towards women's advocacy. [00:00:53] Dr. Taz: From the bedroom [00:00:55] to the boardroom, she serves as a best friend and a guide, a one-stop resource [00:01:00] for everything women need to thrive during midlife and beyond. Her latest book, [00:01:05] How to Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than [00:01:10] Before, will be available in March of 2025. [00:01:13] Dr. Taz: She's also the creator and the [00:01:15] producer of the groundbreaking PBS documentary, The M Factor: Shredding the [00:01:20] Silence on Menopause, which has galvanized a global movement. Welcome [00:01:25] to the show, Tamsen. Tamsen, welcome to the show. I have [00:01:30] been such a fan of yours. I think I have watched you for a long period of time, and then as you've [00:01:35] sort of stepped into this menopause space, just so impressed with your [00:01:40] drive and your advocacy to really make a difference for women's health. [00:01:43] Dr. Taz: I've gotta ask- Thank you ... you [00:01:45] know, why women's health? Why menopause? What made that become the [00:01:50] focus of a lot of your work? [00:01:51] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. It's a, it's a question I ask myself sometimes- ... because I, I am, am [00:01:55] here, and it's, it seems like it was a, a given all along. You know, I lost, I lost my mother at a very [00:02:00] early age and to breast canc- to breast cancer. [00:02:02] Tamsen Fadal: Mm. And that was always- Sorry ... um, something that, that, that hung [00:02:05] over my family and me, and I was always aware of it. But it wasn't until I actually had my own personal [00:02:10] experience with menopause and not knowing what I was experiencing that I realized there had been no [00:02:15] progress from the time that I lost my mother- Mm [00:02:17] Tamsen Fadal: who had gone through a medical menopause as a [00:02:20] result of, uh, double mastectomy and chemotherapy, to where I was [00:02:25] today, you know, uh, a few years ago, landing on the bathroom floor of the news studio, not knowing [00:02:30] what was going on. Mm. Heart racing out of control, lots of brain fog, lots of anxiety, [00:02:35] and not sleeping, and all these years had gone by without a [00:02:40] conversation. [00:02:40] Tamsen Fadal: I'd never had the conversation, and as a member of the media- [00:02:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:02:43] Tamsen Fadal: I'd not had the [00:02:45] conversation to even talk to viewers about. So it was kind of this double whammy, and so [00:02:50] I, you know, I started k- Doing research, getting deeper and deeper into [00:02:55] understanding where there are so many gaps, and saying like, "I don't know what I can do as one person, but I [00:03:00] know what I can do in terms of, as being a, uh, somebody that asks a lot of questions." [00:03:03] Tamsen Fadal: As a journalist, it's been my career [00:03:05] my whole life. It wound up, this is probably my most personal story that I'll, uh, I [00:03:10] think I'll ever tell- That you have to tell. Amazing ... to, to help s- women in whatever way I can, whatever I can. [00:03:14] Dr. Taz: So [00:03:15] how many years is it, if you don't mind me asking- Mm-hmm ... between when you lost your mom [00:03:20] and your me- menopause experience? [00:03:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. How much time elapsed between that? [00:03:24] Tamsen Fadal: Um, that, [00:03:25] I lost my mom in 1990 and, um, and I, I had [00:03:30] my, uh, incident happen in, um... I'm so bad with numbers, I'm sorry. I was 48 years old, [00:03:35] so it was about 28 years. [00:03:36] Dr. Taz: 28 years. About 28 years, yeah. So in 28 years- [00:03:40] Your mom's experience, your experience- Mm-hmm ... very comparable. [00:03:43] Tamsen Fadal: Very comparable. Yeah. I [00:03:45] mean, I, she never talked about it. I just remembered, and this is how I realized that she was going through it, [00:03:50] um, you know, a few years after, uh, what happened to me and I started talking about it on social. Obviously, we [00:03:55] had very different ways of being able to communicate- Right [00:03:57] Tamsen Fadal: what was going on. Right. But I, um, I look back [00:04:00] and I remembered there was one particular trip to Lake George over the summer where she had gone through her [00:04:05] first, um, surgery, and she had gone through radiation, chemotherapy. And then I realized that she [00:04:10] was sweating, pouring sweat all the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:04:11] Tamsen Fadal: She would have water, and she'd be throwing it on her chest. And it was always a, [00:04:15] kind of a source of... She'd laugh about it, and the family would laugh about it. Right. And I, I remember [00:04:20] thinking about it one day, and I started crying. I was like, "Oh, my gosh." She was suffering. She was suffering, but she was trying to [00:04:25] laugh about it because m- I don't even know if she knew what was going on. [00:04:28] Tamsen Fadal: Mm-hmm. I don't know if she knew she went into a, [00:04:30] a, an induced menopause at that time. So, um, it makes me really [00:04:35] sad to think about. Yeah. But it also makes me know that that's the reason for this. And so whether [00:04:40] she is watching or guided me- Oh, I love that. Yeah ... or it just kind of all happened this way, I feel [00:04:45] like there's a reason that I'm, I'm here doing this. [00:04:47] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. 'Cause it wasn't a plan. [00:04:48] Dr. Taz: It, I know. And same for me. [00:04:50] Like, I entered this space without a plan or, or a vision or anything like that. It was really about my own [00:04:55] health. And my hormone story started in my 20s, but it's so interesting to me [00:05:00] in the same 25 years or so that- Yeah ... I've been seeing patients and practicing, [00:05:05] like, not much has changed. [00:05:06] Dr. Taz: It's incredible. You know, when it comes to what their experiences have been. And I think of [00:05:10] my own mom, and I had shared this story recently too, that when she was my [00:05:15] age, you know, she had a lot of mental health stuff going on, you know, a lot of anger- Mm-hmm ... a lot of [00:05:20] rage, you know, high, low, all over the place, which really disrupted our family- Sure. [00:05:24] Dr. Taz: Sure ... you know, [00:05:25] and really impacted our experience growing up as young girls and then going off to college and [00:05:30] things like that. And in hindsight, she was suffering. Sure. You know? Sure. She was probably going through [00:05:35] menopause and having and experiencing the loss of estrogen and progesterone- Mm-hmm ... and all the things that women experience at [00:05:40] this phase of their life. [00:05:40] Dr. Taz: So I feel for the women of prior generations- Yeah. Me too. Me too ... with the [00:05:45] lack of access and the lack of knowledge. And unfortunately, we still have a lot of work to [00:05:50] do today. When you look at the landscape of today- around hormone health- Mm-hmm ... and [00:05:55] menopause, what do you see? [00:05:56] Tamsen Fadal: Um, I fe- see incredible doctors like you- Yeah [00:05:59] Tamsen Fadal: [00:06:00] not afraid to step up and talk. I see women louder than [00:06:05] ever before- It's incredible ... embracing this conversation. And I actually see us, uh, [00:06:10] really banding together, which I really like. I've never been, uh... Like, I was a journalist for a [00:06:15] very long time, and it was really just kind of me and the story or the people that we were helping. [00:06:19] Tamsen Fadal: I've never [00:06:20] seen, I've never been surrounded by a community. It gets me almost emotional 'cause I, I've never been surrounded by a [00:06:25] community of women like you, of the other women we know within this space that are really working to help each other, like [00:06:30] tirelessly, just wanting to help one woman at a time. [00:06:34] Tamsen Fadal: And it's making [00:06:35] a difference. We see it making a difference. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We see women coming together, communities coming together, [00:06:40] women talking about it, um, books being written about it, you know, conferences being had [00:06:45] about it. And so it, it, m- it's a big deal. And so I, I see that change, but [00:06:49] Dr. Taz: I [00:06:50] also know there's so much lacking in it. [00:06:52] Dr. Taz: Much to do, yeah. So despite everything we're doing, we still need [00:06:55] more. We do. And, you know, it's so interesting. Yeah, I've been following you for a while, and I've known about your work for a [00:07:00] while, you know, definitely your work in journalism. And I think I remember your [00:07:05] announcement on social the day you said you were stepping away- Uh-huh [00:07:08] Dr. Taz: from your career in [00:07:10] journalism, which I think spanned over 30 years- Yeah ... if I'm correct. Right? Yeah. You know, what prompted [00:07:15] that decision? And maybe paint what those 30 years of [00:07:20] journalism were like. What were the highs? What were the lows? Oh, yeah. You know, and what made you step away? [00:07:23] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I, I mean, [00:07:25] journalism is my love. [00:07:26] Tamsen Fadal: I, I, I really enjoy storytelling. I really, uh, enjoy [00:07:30] bridging the audience. Um, and, you know, I had had an incredible f- run and [00:07:35] career, and I did all sorts of things. I was able to tell stories within communities. That was [00:07:40] really the big part of it, from New York to, before that, Orlando, Florida- Hmm ... West Virginia, Philadelphia. [00:07:44] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:07:45] mean, I'd been all over. When you're a young reporter, you know- Right ... you move different markets. Right. And so I [00:07:50] was able to do that and, and, and really be embraced by a lot of amazing communities. Um, I did [00:07:55] things like chase hurricanes. I did things like I was in- You did? I did, yes. [00:07:58] Dr. Taz: I didn't know that. [00:07:59] Dr. Taz: That [00:07:59] Tamsen Fadal: [00:08:00] one I didn't know. I was one [00:08:01] Dr. Taz: of the ones clinging to the [00:08:01] Tamsen Fadal: stop sign. [00:08:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:08:02] Tamsen Fadal: Um, and, uh, [00:08:05] would go to, you know, would, would go where stories were. And, you know, one of, one of the larger [00:08:10] stories that I did go, I was embedded in Afghanistan- Oh, yes ... for a, for a period of time, [00:08:15] um, telling the stories of, you know, of, uh, our, our soldiers there. [00:08:19] Tamsen Fadal: [00:08:20] And, and so that was really an incredible- probably a, a [00:08:25] life-changing experience for me, not understanding all of that, um, as well as I did once I [00:08:30] left. So that was, um, an incredible moment. And then, you know, I, I spent the last 15 years or so [00:08:35] anchoring the news, and so those would be story of the day. Right. [00:08:37] Tamsen Fadal: So something would happen like a, a Hurricane Sandy [00:08:40] and the impact that it would have, or, uh, 9/11 and the impact it would have. Mm. [00:08:45] And the stories and the people, and you get close to people and, you know, you hurt with people and cry with [00:08:50] people and, you know, you have stories where you laugh with people. [00:08:52] Tamsen Fadal: So I w- I was really grateful for, for all [00:08:55] that. For all that experience. And stepping away was, um, it wa- it was a long time in coming. Like, it didn't happen [00:09:00] overnight, but I knew that this next area, I just felt this pull of like I have [00:09:05] to tell this story. So every day I'd go into work, and all I could do was think about this, so I'd be like, "What if we do [00:09:10] a menopause story today?" [00:09:11] Tamsen Fadal: "What if we do a woman in midlife story today?" They're like, "Enough." [00:09:15] And so, uh, they were really grateful and really just amazing, uh, about [00:09:20] it all. You know, they, they, they let me leave earlier than I was going to, and I, you know, I still go [00:09:25] back from time to time, so it's really a nice- To see them. Yeah. [00:09:27] Tamsen Fadal: That's amazing. Yeah. They knew it was really important to me, so it was really nice [00:09:30] to be able to say great things about your former bosses, you know? I, I like [00:09:33] Dr. Taz: that. Well, I think there's such a [00:09:35] story, speaking of stories, just in that. I think it takes a lot of courage to step away- Oh, thanks ... from something you've done for [00:09:40] a long period of time. [00:09:41] Dr. Taz: You know, what was your first step? What sort of [00:09:45] motivated you- Yeah ... to move away from that? Were you scared at all? Oh, petrified. You know, and- I'm still scared when [00:09:49] Tamsen Fadal: I think [00:09:50] about what I did ... [00:09:50] Dr. Taz: I, when we think about women in menopause too, or just this period of life in general, it [00:09:55] is an opportunity to take those leaps- Oh [00:09:57] Dr. Taz: and to jump, right? Yeah. And do that which [00:10:00] maybe you never had a chance to do before. You know, but a lot of times people are held back [00:10:05] by fear or- Sure ... scared that they're gonna fail, you know? Sure. What, how did you have that [00:10:10] conviction that this is the way to go? [00:10:11] Tamsen Fadal: I think all of it, fear, you know, finances, [00:10:15] failure, like every F you can think of, you know? [00:10:17] Tamsen Fadal: Um, but I, uh, you know, I made a [00:10:20] plan. Uh, there's no question, like I had to do that. It was a, it was a few years in advance that I'd, like, started [00:10:25] really thinking about it. And I started, um- talking about it all the time. [00:10:30] Not leaving necessarily, but talking about what I wanted to talk about next. And I think what really [00:10:35] showed me the, um, the reason for it, or the reason for this conversation, was social media. [00:10:39] Tamsen Fadal: Mm-hmm. I mean, [00:10:40] social media did a lot- Huge, yeah ... to really, um, open that world up to me, open the [00:10:45] community up to me, um, you know, show me what was needed. And so that was, that was a very, [00:10:50] um, affirmational in terms of, of what I did and what people wanted. And then when I started [00:10:55] doing, doing the work on the, on, uh, the documentary that we released- Mm-hmm [00:10:58] Tamsen Fadal: a f- a- a few months ago, I [00:11:00] really knew that, like, that's where I wanted to be. It's affirming. Yeah. Yeah, so I made the plan of what, you know, what I wanted to [00:11:05] do, what I wanted it to look like. Look, I still every day, every day's a little bit different as an entrepreneur. Like, I'm never [00:11:10] 100% sure what's gonna happen, but I definitely know what my end goal is. [00:11:13] Tamsen Fadal: My end goal is, is to close some of [00:11:15] those gaps when it comes to research dollars- Mm ... to access to information, to making sure that [00:11:20] women know what's going on and to making sure the generation coming up behind us knows what's going o- what's going [00:11:25] on. So I know that's my end goal- Right ... is to leave that as what I... [00:11:28] Tamsen Fadal: You know, I don't have daughters of my [00:11:30] own. Your legacy. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. I don't have daughters of my own, so I just kinda feel like all of these are my daughters - Oh, I love that ... [00:11:35] that I wanna, you know, to shepherd into this next area and not, and not suffer like that. [00:11:40] And, um, if I can do that, that's, you know, feel pretty cool about that. [00:11:43] Dr. Taz: That's amazing. [00:11:44] Tamsen Fadal: Feel, it feels [00:11:45] good that, you know... It feels- It's [00:11:46] Dr. Taz: amazing ... it feels pretty good. Let's talk about the documentary. [00:11:48] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. [00:11:48] Dr. Taz: Tell us a little bit about it, [00:11:50] what it's, uh, what it's called. It just released- Yeah ... a couple months ago. Uh, how that was born. Yeah. You know, I [00:11:55] can't imagine setting out to make a documentary, and I just wanna get behind, like, the [00:12:00] creative mind a little bit. [00:12:00] Dr. Taz: Yeah. What did you do first? What did you do second? How'd you pull [00:12:03] Tamsen Fadal: people together? Thank you. [00:12:05] Yeah. Yeah, that... It's called The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, and, um, my, uh, original [00:12:10] partner, Joanne, uh, LaMarca, and I, she was a former producer on the Today Show. We got [00:12:15] together- I know [00:12:15] Dr. Taz: Joanne. [00:12:15] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, you do? [00:12:15] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I know that name. Yeah, she's... Yes, for [00:12:17] Dr. Taz: sure. [00:12:18] Tamsen Fadal: She's a very good friend. Yeah. She's my [00:12:20] meno-sister. Um, and so we got together talking because, uh, another friend of ours [00:12:25] said, "Listen, all you guys do is talk about menopause. I am so tired- Over it ... of hearing about you talk about it. You [00:12:30] guys talk to each other. [00:12:30] Tamsen Fadal: I'm gonna introduce you." Mm-hmm. She literally introduced us. Jo and I got on the phone. We scheduled [00:12:35] it. We actually found our date of, like, our first conversation. It was an hour and a half long. [00:12:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:12:39] Tamsen Fadal: We, we had it [00:12:40] both on our calendar on a Zoom, and, um, we just talked about, like, how, how is none [00:12:45] of this information out there? [00:12:46] Tamsen Fadal: I mean, this is a time almost three years ago now. Why aren't people talking about [00:12:50] it? How do we get information? What do we do? Why do we think hormones are d- you know, what, what do we do? [00:12:55] And so, um, o- you know, over the course of a few months we said, "Listen, maybe we should just see if there's some kind of [00:13:00] appetite for people wanting to learn and share." [00:13:03] Tamsen Fadal: Uh, we, 'cause we weren't really sure if people were willing to share at [00:13:05] that point. Right, right. People weren't running around going, "I'm in perimenopause." Right. I mean, we've changed a lot in the past few years. Very [00:13:10] much, [00:13:10] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:13:10] Tamsen Fadal: Um, so we went out into the middle of Times Square. We were still a little post-pandemic at the [00:13:15] time. [00:13:15] Tamsen Fadal: People were in masks like, "What do you want?" And we'd go, you know, "Can you tell us about when you knew you were [00:13:20] in menopause?" And, um, we, we talked- Would they actually talk to you? Some did and some didn't. Okay. A lot of [00:13:25] women were like, "I don't even remember it." Others... Uh, I remember one sat down and she goes, "Menopause made [00:13:30] me leave my job." [00:13:31] Tamsen Fadal: Hmm. "Because I couldn't think anymore in conferences and meetings." Oh, wow. And I went, "What?" [00:13:35] [00:13:35] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:13:35] Tamsen Fadal: So, um, so I remember thinking, we were just like, "Wow, there's a [00:13:40] lot to go on. What do we do with this?" And we said, "Maybe we just put something together like an hour-long [00:13:45] special and put it up on YouTube." Like, we didn't know what to do. [00:13:47] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:13:47] Tamsen Fadal: And then, um, about, [00:13:50] uh, six months later I met, uh, Denise Pines and Coby Atlas, the other two partners in this now, on the [00:13:55] West Coast. And the two of them, I, I was talking to them and, and, um, Denise has a business and she [00:14:00] said, "What are you working on?" I said, "A documentary." And she said, "So am I." I said, "What's it about?" [00:14:03] Tamsen Fadal: She goes, "Menopause." I said, "So is mine." [00:14:05] Oh, my gosh. So we got together, we said- Yeah ... let's not compete. Right. Let's, let's join forces- Come together, yeah ... and really do [00:14:10] something really special. And, um, we did. We got a lot of nos and a lot of people [00:14:15] that, you know, we said like, "Would you ar- uh, want to air our documentary?" [00:14:17] Tamsen Fadal: "Nope, there's no audience for it." [00:14:19] Dr. Taz: What was the, what was the [00:14:20] pushback on that? [00:14:20] Tamsen Fadal: There's no audience for it. Hmm. Yeah. It's a niche group. Um, [00:14:25] it's kinda depressing. People aren't gonna wanna hear about that. And so we, we felt, you know, for a [00:14:30] little while it was like a slow-going process, but we kept going out and doing the interviews with the doctors. [00:14:34] Tamsen Fadal: And we [00:14:35] said, we wanna make sure we hit a lot of doctors. Mm-hmm. As many as we can. [00:14:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:14:38] Tamsen Fadal: We funded it ourselves [00:14:40] because- Oh, so self-funded ... we didn't get a lot of funding- Okay ... until after, you know, it- Mm-hmm ... it, you know, the end. [00:14:45] Um- And then we wanted to g- make sure we had women's stories. And, uh, you know, a [00:14:50] real mixture of women's stories to make sure that we had diversity there in terms of, [00:14:55] um, of what women were going through, you know, the ages of what they were going through.[00:15:00] [00:15:00] Tamsen Fadal: And so, um, we put it together and then PBS said, "We will air it." [00:15:05] Amazing, yeah. And so that was super exciting. And so it started going market to market. And then what we [00:15:10] decided to do is to be able to offer it up for the past, uh, however many months it's been now, for [00:15:15] communities to come together. And so that's what we did. [00:15:17] Tamsen Fadal: We've licensed it out for free for communities- [00:15:19] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:15:19] Tamsen Fadal: um, [00:15:20] so we could have as many people be able to have conversations about it. So we've been, we've had, I [00:15:25] think, over 300 plus screenings to date in- Wow ... over 33 countries- Oh my goodness ... and growing. [00:15:30] Yeah. So we have, like we have a, a, a screening recently in, um, France. [00:15:34] Tamsen Fadal: We had one in the [00:15:35] UK. So they've been all over the place. But the more important part, aside from seeing the [00:15:40] film, is the conversation happening afterwards. So we- What's the [00:15:42] Dr. Taz: feedback been? Yeah. [00:15:43] Tamsen Fadal: What, what's happened after? Yeah, we just get women [00:15:45] coming together saying, you know, "We sat there for an hour and a half after the film and talked." [00:15:48] Tamsen Fadal: And I went, "Oh, thank goodness." [00:15:50] That's incredible. Because that's, that's where we're gonna make change. That's where we're gonna make change. Where do you [00:15:54] Dr. Taz: think... So let's [00:15:55] take the documentary, let's like chop it up into little blocks. Mm-hmm. Talk to me about the [00:16:00] research consensus. [00:16:00] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. [00:16:01] Dr. Taz: Where we landed there. [00:16:02] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. Well, there's a lot. You know, when we [00:16:05] set out to do this, we set out to do a couple of things. Answer as many questions as we could- [00:16:08] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:16:09] Tamsen Fadal: and give the [00:16:10] audience as many questions as they could to ask. There's a lot of confusion about hormone [00:16:15] therapy. Yes, yes. If you ask 10 doctors, you'll have 15 responses. [00:16:17] Tamsen Fadal: Right ... maybe more. And we know that. [00:16:20] And so we, we set out to find doctors that, you know, wanted to share what they were doing with [00:16:25] patients. Either they were in the research space or that they were currently doctors that were seeing patients- Mm-hmm ... [00:16:30] because not all doctors are seeing patients at this point. [00:16:32] Tamsen Fadal: Right, right. And, um, and some were involved in telehealth too, [00:16:35] and then we wanted to talk to workplaces as well. And, um, so you know, we talked to Dr. Lisa [00:16:40] Mosconi about her research- Mm-hmm ... into the, you know, brain- Brain health ... and menopausal brain- Right. Mm-hmm ... which is really important. We talked to Kelly [00:16:45] Casperson, who's been- Yeah [00:16:45] Tamsen Fadal: a very, um- I've interviewed her, yep ... big voice in terms of sex and in [00:16:50] terms of testosterone. We talked to, uh, Dr. Sharon Malone- Yes. Incredible ... who's just really [00:16:55] incredible- Yep ... about taking really tough information and making it understandable, and her mission [00:17:00] is to make sure women don't suffer, and that's really, really important. [00:17:03] Tamsen Fadal: Um, we talked to [00:17:05] Dr., uh, Mary Jane Minkin, Dr. Stephanie Fabian, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, [00:17:10] uh, Dr. Wen. We, we wanted to make sure we had a mix of the research- Mm-hmm ... and doctors that [00:17:15] were, you know, were really talking, talking on social media. And so I think at the end of the day, the consensus [00:17:20] for, you know, the majority of our doctors is really understanding hormone therapy, [00:17:25] explaining that, why they're, why they're recommending it to patients, what they're saying if patients are [00:17:30] not at least being offered the conversation about it, and making sure that everybody knows that their [00:17:35] experience is gonna be different. [00:17:36] Tamsen Fadal: You know? Yeah. I think that's the key. What's gonna be good for you and good for me- Personalizing ... is gonna be different. Yes. If my mom [00:17:40] were alive today, she wouldn't be a candidate for hormone therapy. Right. So does she get left out of the conversation? And [00:17:45] so it was really important for us to make sure that those women are not left out of the conversation, that lifestyle changes are gonna be [00:17:50] important. [00:17:50] Tamsen Fadal: Supplementation might be important. Yeah. You know, exercise, under [00:17:55] lifestyle, uh, sleep, stress, you know, all those different things. You know, how we work out. There's a [00:18:00] lot we don't know. There's a, a thousand percent [00:18:02] Dr. Taz: a lot we don't know. So much work to do still, and you know, I can speak from my [00:18:05] perspective of seeing patients- Sure [00:18:06] Dr. Taz: and working on this over and over again, that really the answer is [00:18:10] in personalization. 100%. It's not, it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's not HRT for all. Nope. It's [00:18:15] not none for anyone. Nope. I loved meeting and talking to Sharon Malone. Yeah, she's great. You know, she's [00:18:20] got this, like, 30, 35-year perspective- Yeah [00:18:22] Dr. Taz: on the field, which is- Yeah ... so rich and [00:18:25] so fascinating. She's so good. But, but I love that, you know, all of these voices were highlighted. [00:18:30] But that's the research part, maybe even a little bit of the clinical part. Sure. I actually [00:18:35] have a clinical question- Yeah ... because- [00:18:36] Tamsen Fadal: I hope I can answer it. I don't know. [00:18:37] Tamsen Fadal: I'm not a doctor. [00:18:37] Dr. Taz: Well, no. It's, it's more like looking at the [00:18:40] landscape. Yeah. Right? Because I know y- you interviewed some of the best and brightest in the field. [00:18:45] Is that conversation happening for the average [00:18:50] woman- Yeah ... in an exam room across the globe? 'Cause I hear from women- Right ... all over the world [00:18:55] too. [00:18:55] Dr. Taz: Is it happening for everybody across the globe? [00:18:56] Tamsen Fadal: 100% no. Mm. Like, 100% no. And that, [00:19:00] that was really for... That's, you know, that was one of the other reasons for the film, is that not [00:19:05] only that, you know, we need s- we need as a society so many answers, but [00:19:10] women need answers as to what to say if the doctor is not having a conversation, or if they say, [00:19:15] "Listen, this is just something all women go through." [00:19:17] Tamsen Fadal: Right. You know, uh, or don't give them any kind of [00:19:20] conversation about suffering. And listen, I know that you can't expect your doctor to [00:19:25] know everything, but I do feel like it- At least a conversation ... at least a conversation, and [00:19:30] not to keep putting the onus back on the woman to go in there- Right ... and have to say like, "Here's the [00:19:35] research study that I found." [00:19:36] Tamsen Fadal: Right. But unfortunately, that's where we are right now in a lotta different ways. I'm [00:19:40] grateful that there are doctors like you, like the doctors in the film, that are u- unafraid to [00:19:45] speak up, and are bold and brave about doing that, and not saying, "Uh, this is all we know and this is [00:19:50] where it's gonna stop," because that's not- That's not the answer [00:19:53] Tamsen Fadal: we, we can't do that. Yeah, that's not the answer. I've been to DC now [00:19:55] three, four times, um, because we need more money. Right. We need, we need more research. We need, [00:20:00] uh, you know, and we need the media also to take whatever- To talk, yeah ... research and what studies. So [00:20:05] that's where I kinda feel my role, you know, s- come, comes into all this, is being a, a, a loud voice. [00:20:09] Dr. Taz: Well, [00:20:10] let's talk about DC. I actually wanted to ask you that question. Yeah. Like, on the political front, on the advocacy front, on the [00:20:15] legislative front. Some would say we're in a dark era Mm-hmm ... for women's health. What's [00:20:20] happening with women in menopause? Where's the res- Yeah ... what's happening with research funding and clinical [00:20:25] funding too? [00:20:25] Dr. Taz: Because I feel like you can have research- [00:20:27] Tamsen Fadal: Right ... [00:20:27] Dr. Taz: but you have to do the clinical work too. 100%. 'Cause [00:20:30] sometimes what's happening in the lab doesn't replicate- It doesn't translate always ... when you're dealing with a human being- Yeah ... who [00:20:35] has a personality and all this other stuff going on with them, so. [00:20:37] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, all those things that really matter. Yeah, yeah. Um, [00:20:40] DC, you know, we went about a m- uh, maybe th- maybe a few weeks ago we went, and um, we met with one of [00:20:45] the senators there because they're back to introducing a bipartisan bill, which I think is really [00:20:50] exciting, and that's what we wanna see. I mean, that's to go after money. [00:20:52] Tamsen Fadal: That's to go after even public service announcements- Mm-hmm ... to [00:20:55] make sure that women are aware of what's going on. That's to go after research dollars. So that's an [00:21:00] exciting thing for me. There were a couple, there were like maybe three different bills aside from that, that have been [00:21:05] discussed. But I think, you know, if we're gonna have to, we go back to the drawing board in a lot of different ways of figuring out, you know, [00:21:10] what we do, but I don't, this conversation's nowhere near not happening. [00:21:13] Tamsen Fadal: And I think when we see, [00:21:15] um... You know, what I always say is like, menopause is not a partisan issue. [00:21:19] Dr. Taz: No. [00:21:19] Tamsen Fadal: [00:21:20] It's just not. And so that is what my, my line is, and that is what, you know, we're [00:21:25] fighting to have happen, is to make sure that we get that. And these [00:21:27] Dr. Taz: are... And this is trying to- Uh-huh ... get money for, for research. [00:21:29] Tamsen Fadal: For both. For- [00:21:30] Well, for research, for- Okay ... for announcements, for public announcements- Gotcha ... for awareness. I mean, think we need all of [00:21:35] that. [00:21:35] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:21:35] Tamsen Fadal: I don- I don't know where we stop. Like, I don't, I don't know where we stop with that. We need education. We [00:21:40] need medical schools to be educated. There's so many different areas. [00:21:43] Tamsen Fadal: You could play Whac-A-Mole with what you wanna pay attention [00:21:45] to. Totally. Right. But I think money is an important conversation and education is the important, the second important [00:21:50] conversation. [00:21:50] Dr. Taz: And women having accessibility to the information- Of course ... I think too, right? On top of everything else. Because we've got [00:21:55] women... [00:21:55] Dr. Taz: You know, I am so fortunate to meet women. Like, literally I'll do telehealth visits and [00:22:00] somebody's sitting in a cornfield and, you know- I know ... saying, " [00:22:02] Tamsen Fadal: We [00:22:02] Dr. Taz: don't have access." Isn't that amazing though? I know. It is. To be able to [00:22:04] Tamsen Fadal: reach those [00:22:05] women. [00:22:05] Dr. Taz: It is. [00:22:05] Tamsen Fadal: It- I think that's such a... It's like, it's just amazing [00:22:07] Dr. Taz: to me. [00:22:07] Dr. Taz: It's incredible, but they're like, "We don't have anybody around here- [00:22:09] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah ... to talk to." [00:22:10] Nobody cl- You know? So. Nobody close. Nobody within miles. Right. It's, it's unbelievable. It is. It's [00:22:15] unbelievable and that, that's so important. Mm. And, and that access is important, affordability and all those different [00:22:20] things. [00:22:20] Dr. Taz: What we're seeing here in America Is that true internationally as well? What do you feel [00:22:25] like in the global scale? How is menopause treated? Now again, remember I'm [00:22:30] coming in with this very old perspective of holistic health, Chinese [00:22:35] medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, merging it with conventional Western medicine. [00:22:38] Dr. Taz: But a, [00:22:38] Tamsen Fadal: but a great perspective. [00:22:39] Dr. Taz: A great perspective. [00:22:40] But in those litanies of medicine- Yeah ... you know, menopause was actually [00:22:45] revered. Mm-hmm. You were sort of rising- Of course ... into your own. You were becoming the- Yeah. Wise ... [00:22:50] matriarch of the family. You know, you were relied upon, your wisdom was important- Mm-hmm [00:22:54] Dr. Taz: and valuable. [00:22:55] And it wasn't sort of this retreating and, like, hiding in a corner- [00:22:59] Tamsen Fadal: [00:23:00] Irrelevant ... [00:23:00] Dr. Taz: type situation. Yeah. Being invisible. Yeah. That's the word many women use. It really wasn't [00:23:05] that. The rest of the family and the rest of the culture gave you a lot of [00:23:10] importance and relevance, you know? But I'm curious, as the world has westernized, [00:23:15] right? [00:23:15] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. And as, you know, women have entered into, you know, the working world and [00:23:20] things like that, and family looks different- Right ... is this an issue internationally? And I'm, I'm [00:23:25] curious as, as to whether you, with your screenings, have noticed this. [00:23:27] Tamsen Fadal: Well, I feel like first of all, gosh, I wish we [00:23:30] lived in a world where, where it was like that. [00:23:32] Tamsen Fadal: Right. Where the woman was revered and didn't feel... When I hear words [00:23:35] like invisible or irrelevant, it makes me really sad, you know? 'Cause I think about all the things that [00:23:40] that woman has to share. Right. And I, and I grew up in a family where we had, you know, a lot of the intergenerational- Right ... all [00:23:45] the time. [00:23:45] Tamsen Fadal: So did we. So it was very That was more commonplace. Like it w- it was very [00:23:50] clear and, but I know how things have changed. Yeah. What I have found interesting, and I haven't been [00:23:55] able to visit all the different countries, I've got some of those coming up, but I have watched how these, [00:24:00] um, documentary screenings have been embraced. [00:24:02] Tamsen Fadal: Mm-hmm. And I think that there's the same kind of thirst, you [00:24:05] know? Mm-hmm. I think that no matter where we're talking about, we had one in Lithuania not too long ago- Amazing, yeah ... you know, New Z- [00:24:10] New Zealand, Singapore. Um, so when I look at how they're embraced, I think that that thirst for the [00:24:15] conversation of women of this age, of this Gen X, you know, millen- you know, older, uh, [00:24:20] millennials are, are feeling the same way. [00:24:21] Tamsen Fadal: Like, they feel that irrelevance. They feel that- Mm ... no one's [00:24:25] talking to them. They feel like they're suffering. I was at a screening the other night, and you know, all the rooms were around my [00:24:30] age, between 45 and 55 years old. And one hand after another, like, "My doctor told me to [00:24:35] smoke pot to get my sex- Mm [00:24:36] Tamsen Fadal: sex life back." Yeah. "My doctor told me," but I, I was like, "What?" [00:24:40] Like, some of the, some of the... It made me really sad- Yeah ... to see how these women are treated. So I, [00:24:45] I do think there are some cultures that revere women of this age, but I think ve- I don't know, [00:24:50] very few it seems to me that I, that I've heard from. [00:24:52] Dr. Taz: Well, I think even in- Unless- ... the more traditional ones, I think we've moved away [00:24:55] from it because- And that makes me sad- You know, because- ... because those are the ones- Yeah ... that I was [00:24:57] Tamsen Fadal: holding on to hope. [00:24:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So work [00:25:00] to be done across the board. I was holding, holding on to [00:25:01] Tamsen Fadal: hope. [00:25:02] Dr. Taz: For sure. Well, you know, as we think about [00:25:05] women in menopause, you know, what are their options today? [00:25:08] Dr. Taz: Where, where do we lead [00:25:10] them? Yeah. What's the starting point? That's a good question. Is the first point just to have the conversation? [00:25:14] Tamsen Fadal: I think the first [00:25:15] part is, um, for me, and I, I kind of always pooh-poohed this a little bit, but when I would hear people go, [00:25:20] "Oh, community's really important," I hear myself saying it constantly- Mm [00:25:23] Tamsen Fadal: because I really [00:25:25] realize how important that community part is right now. I, I had no idea when I was younger [00:25:30] how important it would be to this day, yes, the conversation, um, [00:25:35] two, to make sure if you can't have the conversation with somebody else, like you and I sitting here isn't happening all over the country, [00:25:40] right? [00:25:40] Tamsen Fadal: Right, right. Um, and so if you don't have that, that comfortability, you l- you know, I'm [00:25:45] gonna, I'm gonna leave here and be like, "That was such a great conversation. I'm gonna ride high all day, and I feel even more empowered," right? Right. [00:25:50] But if somebody else does, not able to do that, or they're in a corn field, or they're not able to be [00:25:55] somewhere to have it, or they don't feel comfortable, w- what do they do? [00:25:57] Tamsen Fadal: Right. So they have to hear from all of us [00:26:00] to say, like, "Okay, you're, you're part of us now. Come on, it's okay." Join us. Have that conversation, and if you [00:26:05] don't get a response back from a doctor, I mean, telehealth I feel like they're very clear- Such a game changer ... what they have to [00:26:10] do. Yeah, yeah. Such a game changer. [00:26:10] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. But if you're not getting that response, you have to be brave enough to move on, [00:26:15] and we have to give women that access, too, to be able to do that. Mm-hmm. We can't say, "Oh, go find five doctors. [00:26:20] Hope you can also at the same time, uh, you know, get out of work five days a week- Right ... to go run around from [00:26:25] doctor to doctor." [00:26:25] Tamsen Fadal: So that's where I think telehealth is a big game changer. It's gonna make a difference, yeah. But, you know, we want more access for these [00:26:30] women, too. [00:26:30] Dr. Taz: You know, you mentioned menopause in the workplace a couple of times. You know, what's happening to women in the [00:26:35] workplace? I know I hear the stories- Yeah ... from my patients. [00:26:37] Dr. Taz: I'm sure you do. And- I'm sure you do ... you know, and it's, it's [00:26:40] really something women that could lead companies, meetings, conferences- Yeah ... all of a sudden [00:26:45] are just like I can't remember what I was supposed to say. Yeah. It's super embarrassing, you know? [00:26:50] But what's happening to women in the workplace in terms of not just we know [00:26:55] symptom-wise what's happening to them- [00:26:56] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah [00:26:56] Dr. Taz: but how much is work culture- Yeah ... and company [00:27:00] culture adapting to the rise in this conversation? [00:27:04] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, [00:27:05] I, um... You know, we did a big section of the documentary about it because we did find a, a company that was [00:27:10] implementing policy, and that was exciting. And look, every workplace is different. One person's gonna work in a [00:27:15] classroom. [00:27:15] Tamsen Fadal: Another is gonna work behind the wheel of a, of a car. The other person is going to be in a, in a [00:27:20] C-suite. So we know that we can't say, "Okay, every- here's the policy for everybody." Right. [00:27:23] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:27:23] Tamsen Fadal: But I think what we can [00:27:25] do in, in most, if not all, workplaces is allow there to be room for that conversation. Mm-hmm. [00:27:29] Tamsen Fadal: [00:27:30] Allow there to be some kinda safe place for women to have at least a... I don't care if they get a [00:27:35] downloadable. I don't, I don't care what it is, but at least have a resource to be able to go to to be able to have the [00:27:40] conversation and then figure out where we go from here, whether we're talking about flexible, you know, work days, whe- or hours, [00:27:45] or whether we're talking about some type of help in the workplace. [00:27:48] Tamsen Fadal: What we don't wanna do [00:27:50] is single women out and say like, "Oh, you can't do your job?" You have menopause, right. You have a- Yeah. Yeah. You have the menopause? [00:27:55] Right. No, no, no, no, no. We're gonna... We're not gonna... You know, you're not gonna be promoted, or you're gonna be [00:28:00] punished somehow because you can't do your job. [00:28:02] Tamsen Fadal: Um, but I'm with you that I [00:28:05] see over and over again, and I was the same w- way. I was reading a teleprompter. I'd, I'd look at the words in [00:28:10] front of me, and I'd be like, "I know that-" I can't see that. I can't remember it. Yeah. I'd break out into this sweat and [00:28:15] then skip it, you know, 'cause I- Right ... there's nothing else to do when you're live. [00:28:18] Tamsen Fadal: Right. And you know what else to do when you're in the middle of [00:28:20] a, a conference and can't get the word out or talking in a conversation, and I think that really [00:28:25] Hurts our self-confidence. I think, um, that it's detrimental [00:28:30] to women, which is why we want the help first so they don't even get to that stage. [00:28:33] Tamsen Fadal: But for right now, trying to [00:28:35] help implement some of those policies w- you know, tailored, again, customized, [00:28:40] personalized to different workspaces, I think is important. I [00:28:42] Dr. Taz: mean, I think that's just... I- I get really sad when I [00:28:45] see women retreating from [00:28:46] Tamsen Fadal: their lives. Me too. Because in some ways, this is [00:28:48] Dr. Taz: actually where [00:28:50] we're the strongest, right? [00:28:51] Dr. Taz: The best time. We finally have, like, usually very good self-esteem [00:28:54] Tamsen Fadal: [00:28:55] intact. [00:28:55] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. We are clear about what we want, you know. But then to struggle with all this [00:29:00] noise, and then to take a step back, I think that's such a disservice to- Me too ... the community and, you know, [00:29:05] leave alone, you know, to the woman herself. [00:29:07] Dr. Taz: I think that one of the things that I personally would love to [00:29:10] see is just more resources for women- Oh ... you know, when they're going through menopause, and less sort [00:29:15] of, you know, shame and guilt around accessing those resources. Mm-hmm. You know, I think a lot of times [00:29:20] people hear the word menopause, and it's immediate negative connotations- Yes [00:29:23] Dr. Taz: I'm getting old. [00:29:25] But if we can somehow, here's my hope, if we can somehow take that word and [00:29:30] either rebrand it or be like, "You're about to enter the most exciting phase of your life- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... you know, [00:29:35] and here's why," I think that's something that the workplace would benefit from- Yes ... and that communities and [00:29:40] societies would benefit from too. [00:29:41] Tamsen Fadal: I'll work on that with you. [00:29:42] Dr. Taz: Okay, there we go. That's- that's our mission. We're done. [00:29:45] Um, but I do wanna talk about your book. Oh, yes. Because you've spent, not only do you have the doc- I mean, you've [00:29:50] done so much, first of all, for this space, which- Thank you ... everyone should thank you for. But- Thank you ... [00:29:55] but you also have a book, and that's coming out soon. [00:29:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So tell us a little about that. I had too, [00:29:59] Tamsen Fadal: I had too many words [00:30:00] left after the documentary. [00:30:01] Dr. Taz: Too many words after the docu- I love that. I was like, " [00:30:03] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:30:03] Dr. Taz: have [00:30:03] Tamsen Fadal: more." More to say. Um, [00:30:05] you know, there are so many incredible people in this space, and, um, there are so many incredible [00:30:10] resources out there. And so, you know, aside from doctors, I wanted to make sure that everything is part of this conversation- Right [00:30:14] Tamsen Fadal: in [00:30:15] terms of lifestyle, in terms of exercise, in terms of workplace mindset. Right. [00:30:20] Dating. You know. Yeah, all of it. There's all of these things- Yeah ... we can't leave out. So s- so many doctors have written incredible [00:30:25] books like yourself, you know, that really hone in on the science and the research. So I wanted [00:30:30] to pay tribute to that and make sure that that was in there in a really actionable way, but then go beyond the [00:30:35] doctor's office and say, "Okay, there's also the lifestyle of all of this," what we do in the kitchen, what we do in the [00:30:40] bedroom, what we do in the boardroom, what we do beyond that. [00:30:42] Tamsen Fadal: And so I, um, I was like, "Well, I don't even know what to call [00:30:45] this book," which I struggled with it for a long time. I'm like- What do I call? Hot, hotter, [00:30:50] hottest? Like, I had all these, like, I had 300 ridiculous names Hot stuff. I was like- Yeah. ... Coming in [00:30:55] Hot. When Life Gives You Hot Flashes. Yeah. I'm like, I didn't know what to do. [00:30:57] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. And then I went, oh, this is How to [00:31:00] Menopause. Like, this is kind of what- I like that ... you can... Yeah. Thank you. I, well- I like [00:31:04] Dr. Taz: that. It [00:31:05] was a lot of sleepless nights- [00:31:06] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah ... it made my husband crazy, but, um, but it really was [00:31:10] that. You know, it was like, what do you do at this time? Yeah. And how do you make it a great way to, you know, like take [00:31:15] charge of your health and reclaim this part of your life- Yeah [00:31:17] Tamsen Fadal: versus this narrative that we have been [00:31:20] told, which is to shirk back and feel invisible and be grateful to still be there [00:31:25] on the stage. You know, no. And so that was, that was why and, you know, um, [00:31:30] I was excited to be able to spend time doing it. And I, I just, I don't know, I love, uh, [00:31:35] bridging that gap between experts and audience and I think, you know, that's where the, the [00:31:40] journalist in me still keeps coming... [00:31:41] Tamsen Fadal: I keep coming back to it. Come- That, [00:31:43] Dr. Taz: those are your roots. I can't. Those are your roots. I keep dragging me [00:31:45] back to it. [00:31:45] Tamsen Fadal: So in the book, tell us a little bit, like, is it [00:31:48] Dr. Taz: like a how-to guide? Like, [00:31:50] key takeaways- [00:31:51] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, yeah ... that type of thing? Key takeaways- Yeah ... for sure. Women's stories for sure. Okay. You know, I [00:31:55] really leaned on the community quite a bit with it to make sure that I got all stories in, 'cause I don't, I [00:32:00] don't know every experience. [00:32:00] Tamsen Fadal: Right. And you know- Right ... if in one day you probably have 50 stories you could walk [00:32:05] away with- Absolutely, yeah ... from, from- Yeah ... patients. And so I, I reached out to the community on, [00:32:10] on social, on my email list, in our, in our Facebook groups and I said, like, every time I write [00:32:15] something I'm like, "Sex. What's going on? [00:32:17] Tamsen Fadal: You know, what are your questions in sex? What, you know, what are some of [00:32:20] the stories, you know, that you, that you've wanted to share? What would you tell your partner if you could write [00:32:25] them a letter?" You know? So, so I wanted to make sure there was actionables and that it was easy to digest- Mm-hmm ... because [00:32:30] that's huge for me. [00:32:30] Tamsen Fadal: I have zero attention span. And I wanted to make sure that depending on where [00:32:35] you were in this journey, you could flip to that- I don't know if you remember that book, Simple Abundance? [00:32:39] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah. [00:32:40] [00:32:40] Tamsen Fadal: Do you remember that book? Oh, yeah, I [00:32:40] Dr. Taz: love that book. [00:32:41] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I do, too. Yeah. And I always would have it on my bedside and I'd be like, [00:32:45] "I need this page today." [00:32:46] Tamsen Fadal: Right, right. Whatever. Yeah. I don't know. I think it was by dates, but- [00:32:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:32:48] Tamsen Fadal: um, but I always needed to, like, flip [00:32:50] to something and it was useful, and I wanted this book to do that. So I kind of br- I broke it up into parts, [00:32:55] so I made the stories actionable. I have some personal stories woven in there of my whys [00:33:00] and resources in the back so people can access those, and quizzes, and QR codes for [00:33:05] more downloadables that I couldn't fit- That's amazing [00:33:06] Tamsen Fadal: and recipes and stuff. So- You know, it's [00:33:08] Dr. Taz: interesting 'cause I've been definitely watching, like, the [00:33:10] hormone and the menopause stuff, and there are a lot of books- Yeah ... that have come out. Yes. And, you know, a lot of different people weighing into the [00:33:15] field. But I don't think I've seen one yet from a journalist [00:33:20] perspective. [00:33:20] Dr. Taz: Oh, well, thank you. From a... I mean, I, I could be wrong. Thank you. But from a storyteller's perspective, [00:33:25] because I think we as clinicians are gonna tell the story from our vantage point, right? Right. Like, what we [00:33:30] see, what we've experienced. You're hearing our voice. Right, right. But my guess is that you're putting a [00:33:35] lot of voices together. [00:33:35] Tamsen Fadal: Yes, [00:33:36] Dr. Taz: a [00:33:36] Tamsen Fadal: lot of voices are in it. Yeah. And I think [00:33:37] Dr. Taz: that there's, you know, a certain, a certain gift to [00:33:40] that, for sure. Thank [00:33:40] Tamsen Fadal: you. Thank you. [00:33:41] Dr. Taz: How are you, 'cause... Are you okay saying how old you are? [00:33:44] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, yeah. [00:33:45] I'm g- I'm, I just turned 54. [00:33:47] Dr. Taz: 54, okay. [00:33:47] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. [00:33:47] Dr. Taz: I was like- I was [00:33:48] Tamsen Fadal: like, " [00:33:48] Dr. Taz: Wait, how old am I?" I do that all the time. [00:33:50] I'm like, "Uh..." [00:33:51] Dr. Taz: But- Talk to us about how you're taking care of yourself- Oh ... in this phase of life. [00:33:54] Tamsen Fadal: [00:33:55] Yeah. [00:33:55] Dr. Taz: And what's worked for you. [00:33:56] Tamsen Fadal: Um, well, I have a couple of things 'cause I, I have seen some changes over the past [00:34:00] few years. Yeah. I'll be honest. Like, I, um, I, so d- I do hormone therapy, you know that. Mm-hmm. And [00:34:05] so that's, that was really helpful in- It's a game-changer for me [00:34:07] Tamsen Fadal: for me. It was really a game-changer- For me, yeah ... especially with my [00:34:10] sleep. Um, I have, since I left my job, it was a year ago, I really tried to focus. I was like, [00:34:15] "Okay, you have this year, now you have no more excuses." You know, why you can't go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time- Yeah ... [00:34:20] except if you cause that. [00:34:20] Tamsen Fadal: Are you bad about that? I was terrible about it. I am, too. I know, like, I'm not- I get in trouble. I'm not... I [00:34:25] know, my ring yells at me. Uh-huh. I have the Oura ring, it screams at me all the time. My husband goes [00:34:27] Dr. Taz: around shutting all the lights off. [00:34:29] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, he does? He's like, "What [00:34:30] time?" That's good. That's so good. Yeah. [00:34:32] Tamsen Fadal: My husband doesn't 'cause he just falls asleep on the co- Yeah ... he just, like, [00:34:35] falls asleep and I go, "Oh, my gosh, I'm still working." I know, I know. And I'm like, "If he's not in bed yet, it's okay." I [00:34:39] Dr. Taz: [00:34:40] can [00:34:40] Tamsen Fadal: relate, yeah. Um, so those are my two biggies. And then I walk every morning. Like, I try to do- Okay ... I don't know, [00:34:45] 10,000 steps in the morning. [00:34:46] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. And I do my phone calls during that. And so I do a lot of calls and walking, getting [00:34:50] out first time, you know, first part of the day. And then I'm trying to change [00:34:55] how I'm taking care of myself. Like, I was the sloppy sleeper- Mm-hmm ... 'cause I'm like [00:34:59] Dr. Taz: Who needs sleep? [00:34:59] Tamsen Fadal: I'm [00:35:00] still really cool. Sleep. I can do it for three hours. [00:35:01] Tamsen Fadal: Yep. Fine. Yep, yep, yep. Mm-hmm. Um, I was kind of the, I'll eat whenever I'm [00:35:05] hungry and it's fine. But I really try to implement the protein thing in my, in my day, and that is work. That's, [00:35:10] that's a big one. It's like a chore. Yeah. It's not a easy, you know, thing. Um, cutting back on [00:35:15] alcohol, huge. I, I always, um, I was always like, oh, I'm, I [00:35:20] don't really care very much about alcohol and I never really have, but I enjoy my glass of wine or champagne. [00:35:24] Tamsen Fadal: And [00:35:25] it, it really has changed. My body has changed how it deals with it. [00:35:29] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah. [00:35:29] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:35:30] had a, um, glass of champagne, glass and a half of champagne the other night. We went out, I hadn't had it for a [00:35:35] while. I wa- I was sweating in the middle of the night. It was like I woke up three times. Yeah. Yeah. And I went, " [00:35:38] Dr. Taz: What? [00:35:38] Dr. Taz: Cool." It's not worth [00:35:40] it. This is 54. [00:35:41] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. But [00:35:41] Dr. Taz: I'm okay with it. [00:35:42] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. So now I know. Um, and then how I'm s- [00:35:45] managing stress- Stress ... I think has been a big thing. Yeah, I used to think that that was just something [00:35:50] you, you know, you just deal with and you'll figure out along the way. Power up, yeah. Yeah. But I've really focused on [00:35:55] that. [00:35:55] Tamsen Fadal: Good. And being present with people a little bit more as I'm getting older and my dad's getting older and my nephew's [00:36:00] getting... You know, my husband- What did you [00:36:01] Dr. Taz: find your biggest physical challenge was in menopause- Yeah ... and your biggest [00:36:05] emotional challenge was in menopause? [00:36:06] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, that's a good question. Uh, my biggest physical challenge, I think, was the brain fog. [00:36:09] Tamsen Fadal: Mm. [00:36:10] 100%, because it really, uh, hurt my self-confidence at work. Mm. Wow. Like, it really, I felt [00:36:15] uncomfortable, um, doing a job I'd done forever. Like, nervous. [00:36:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:36:18] Tamsen Fadal: Nervous. I'd get on the set and I'm like, "Just [00:36:20] get through this newscast." Really? " [00:36:21] Dr. Taz: Just [00:36:21] Tamsen Fadal: get this..." Yeah. Wow. A lot. And, um, [00:36:25] and you know, a part of my job was ad-libbing. [00:36:27] Tamsen Fadal: Right. So you'd just talk like this, too- Right, mm-hmm ... about a story. And I would, didn't [00:36:30] trust myself to, like, what, what I wouldn't be able to retain or remember. And I used to be [00:36:35] the person that could talk for an hour about this, you know, table- Yeah. ... and not have a script. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, and then I'm like, [00:36:40] "Script." [00:36:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:36:40] Tamsen Fadal: Um, and then emotionally, I think, um- [00:36:45] I, I guess, you know, I look at what my mom went through, and I guess I just feel sad that [00:36:50] we're still here, but encouraged that we know we're s- we're here now and we're doing something about it. [00:36:54] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:36:54] Tamsen Fadal: [00:36:55] And I think, I just think about that big gap of time and the suffering that went on. [00:36:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:36:58] Tamsen Fadal: And a lot of the women now that I hear from, they [00:37:00] go, "I was never even offered that," or- [00:37:01] Dr. Taz: Right ... " [00:37:01] Tamsen Fadal: I suffered for this long," and, "Is it too late for me to do this?" and, "What can I do [00:37:05] now?" So that, I think, bothers me a lot. Still. It keeps me up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It keep- yeah, because I hear those [00:37:10] stories all the time, so it's like... [00:37:11] Tamsen Fadal: But I feel like we're moving in the right direction. [00:37:13] Dr. Taz: That's amazing. Yeah. Well, tell [00:37:15] us a little bit about the book and where everyone can find [00:37:17] Tamsen Fadal: it. Yes, of course, howtomenopause.com. Some- [00:37:20] that wasn't taken. Nobody - There we go. I love that. Nobody had that. Nobody took that one. Nobody [00:37:23] Dr. Taz: took howtomenopause.com. [00:37:24] Tamsen Fadal: [00:37:25] Yeah. It's got perimenopause and menopause in it, obviously, both of those, especially with so many, uh, symptoms of [00:37:30] perimenopause- Yeah ... being so prevalent. And, um, I'm always @TamsenFadal, so you can find me. [00:37:34] Dr. Taz: Amazing [00:37:35] social platform- Yes ... by the way. I love, I love you on social. Thank you. You just- I have fun ... open yourself up to all of [00:37:40] [00:37:40] Tamsen Fadal: us. [00:37:40] Tamsen Fadal: You're so great on social. Maybe too [00:37:41] Dr. Taz: much. No. Maybe too much sometimes. It's incredible. It's so inspirational. I think it's [00:37:45] great. Thank you. All right, I have to leave you with one last question. Yes. [00:37:46] Tamsen Fadal: Give it to me. [00:37:47] Dr. Taz: What makes you whole? [00:37:49] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, what makes me [00:37:50] whole? Yeah. My, I mean, my family makes me whole. Family. [00:37:53] Tamsen Fadal: 100%. So, you know- I have a very- ... [00:37:54] Dr. Taz: [00:37:55] we've had some other guests, family's [00:37:55] Tamsen Fadal: a big [00:37:56] Dr. Taz: one. [00:37:56] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. It is. Yeah. It's, I think as I've gotten older too, that would be my answer, [00:38:00] but I, you know, I lost my mom young. I still have my dad. He's 85 in- Yeah ... next month. Healthily. [00:38:05] And I feel... Yes. Wow. Yeah. Like, he want... I took him to Spain this year. [00:38:08] Tamsen Fadal: What? He had never, he hadn't [00:38:10] been overseas- Amazing. Yeah ... in 50 years. Yeah. It was the coolest thing. So, um, [00:38:15] yeah, it's my family. Family. And my husband is just, like, he allows me to... You know, he's my big [00:38:20] cheerleader, and that's- To be you ... pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's a gift. He doesn't try to fight me from being who I am. [00:38:24] Dr. Taz: That's a, such a gift. He [00:38:24] Tamsen Fadal: [00:38:25] might want to, but he doesn't. Yeah. [00:38:26] Dr. Taz: My, mine tried and failed. Yeah. [00:38:29] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:38:30] [00:38:30] Dr. Taz: was gonna [00:38:30] Tamsen Fadal: say, I, mine just keeps it inside. I know. [00:38:31] Dr. Taz: So sorry, sweetie. Anyhow, well, it's been such a joy- Oh, I love this. [00:38:35] Thank you ... and such a pleasure. I have loved watching you, learning about your career. Thank you. [00:38:38] Dr. Taz: Well, back at you. And then love to [00:38:40] see all your energy sort of channeled in this space, which women really need. Thank you. So thank you. [00:38:43] Tamsen Fadal: Thanks for what [00:38:44] Dr. Taz: you do for women every day. And thank you for being [00:38:45] here. Thank you. [00:38:47] Dr. Taz: Thank you so much for listening and watching today's [00:38:50] episode of Whole+. Be sure to share this episode with your friends and family. [00:38:53] Dr. Taz: And if you haven't already, [00:38:55] please take a moment to subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, [00:39:00] Spotify, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow me on all social [00:39:05] channels at DrTazMD. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.