Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 71: Abbie Gellman MS, RD, CDN, Chef - CULINARY / CONSULTING
Transcript
- Kristen Hicks-Roof: Welcome back to the Nutrition Connection Podcast, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristen Hicksroof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all, I'm excited to bring on a combination of do of professions here. So we have Chef Abby Gelman. She is a chef and dietitian at Abby Gelman LLC and SBH over in the Bronx. Welcome to the show, Abby. Abbie Gellman: Thank you. Happy to be here. Kristen Hicks-Roof: And I have connected and followed you for I feel like it's been 10 years because it's been so cool. And and like Abbie Gellman: Probably. Yeah, I think so. That seems right. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: you don't have a ton of dietitians who have both that culinary side as well as the, you know, the dietitian. So I feel like you're really the best blend of both worlds. Abbie Gellman: Thank you. I used to well not used to. I often kind of explain that to people outside of our realm that that there's not a ton of us in the grand scheme of things that have both sides. That it's kind of a unique skill set. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, and we're gonna dive into it because I do think that is gonna be some of the future, right? When Abbie Gellman: Great. Kristen Hicks-Roof: you think of culinary medicine and all these other things of getting people back in the kitchen that we've gotten so disconnected. But Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yep. Kristen Hicks-Roof: let's drive it all the way back from the beginning. Abby, what really inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional and specifically a nutrition professional and a chef? Abbie Gellman: see, okay. So do we want the long story or the short story? Because there's another profession that's gonna get dropped in here too, because I'm a career changer. Kristen Hicks-Roof: well we can have both stories. Abbie Gellman: so I won't go super super long, but I went to Cornell. I was in the hotel school, which is essentially the business school at Cornell. Now they actually have combined with the business school. But at the time, I had worked in restaurants and hotels in high school and was good at accounting and finance and stuff like that. So that's where I went for undergrad. and we had to take a cooking class and it was part food science, part cooking. and I got really into it, and then you have to take general education too, right? So I took a nutrition class with one of my roommates who was pre-med. And I was like, Well, this is really interesting. And it was the 90s, so everything was like snack wells, low fat, healthy food tastes gross and like cardboard. So, but I was cooking at the same time and doing like French-based cooking. So I was kind of like, all right, so I I know how to cook kind of now. Food that's healthy should taste better than this, like what's happening, right? So like nutrition class and all that. So then I kind of ignored all of that, those thoughts, and then went and graduated and moved to New York City and worked in consulting. So like hospitality consulting for Pricewater Scoopers. left and went to culinary school because they also had A food and beverage consulting focus. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Mm. Abbie Gellman: So I went to culinary school instead of MBA, went back to PwC and did that, then went to Wall Street and worked at Goldman Sachs covering restaurant companies. So like that whole time was about 10, 11 years. Then, if anyone's old enough to remember the recession, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, all these banks like blew up. and I had gotten married and was pregnant and working a million hours a week. and said, you know, maybe this finance thing isn't really where I want to go. And I had always kept going back and checking, like, if I got a nutrition degree, where would it be? How would I do that? What does that look like? So in after my daughter was born, I left and went back to school and became a dietitian. So that was like two thousand seven, two thousand eight. And that took, you know, it takes like four years, right? So I did all that. And then while I was doing that, I learned that a lot of dietitians don't cook, which was the shocking, you know, like super secret part of the dietetics world. So then I was like, okay, well then my focus is the food and the culinary and the cooking and all of that. So that was that's kind of my journey. but all starting with like food should taste good, whether it's healthy or not healthy. Like it i what's the difference really? So that's kind of the driver. Kristen Hicks-Roof: It's so funny you say that like so many dietitians don't cook. And I experienced this in my internship and I was actually really surprised. I mean, I love cooking. We grew up, like I lived in Costa Rica when I was a kid. We traveled all the time. Like food was like, yeah, it tastes good. It's culture. It's celebration. It's my mom Abbie Gellman: The center. Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: and dad cooked all the time. And then to go and like people I mean, I had one of my, you know, interns at the time that like she literally ate Chick-fil-A. Like, Abbie Gellman: Ugh, forever. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Like four days a week. Abbie Gellman: I mean Chick fil A's good, but not for every meal. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Dude, I love Chick-fil-A. Don't get me wrong. But I was like, wow. And she was like, I actually don't like cooking. I'm like, well, how are you gonna be in the nutrition profession if you don't like cooking? Because ultimately it all interconnects with what you do at home, right? So that's Abbie Gellman: That's right. That's right. And if if you're helping people I don't know, I feel like I see this again and again and I say this all the time when we have interns. If so if you're telling someone what to eat, you have to know how to explain how to make it, right? So you can't just say g do hard boiled eggs and brown rice or roast a chicken if you can't explain how to roast a chicken. Do you know what I mean? So like Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. Abbie Gellman: w basics are the basics for a reason. You need at least that. So Kristen Hicks-Roof: So you're saying my roast chicken that I get at the grocery store I cannot roast a chicken. Abbie Gellman: I mean those are good shortcuts. Those are good tips and tricks and shortcuts, but you should also know how to do it yourself, hopefully. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Totally. Well, and I think it's an area, like I said, I see emerging more and more that you're seeing these disciplines really interconnect because I think people are getting more interested in cooking. They're strapped for financial resources. So they're like, Okay, how do I make this happen at home? So I Abbie Gellman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: do think it's a opportunity for dietitians to bridge that a little more. so Abbie Gellman: That's right. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: let's talk about your journey a little bit. And you gave us a little taste, which is really fascinating, right? Like When I used to be a faculty member, we had so many second career dietitians. Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. And I went to teachers college and we there were a lot of us that were second career. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Right. It's it's interesting. Is it is it because there's just not awareness of what a dietitian is, so people don't even know it's a career path really early? I don't know. I've always wondered then. Abbie Gellman: I mean, that's a good question. I mean, yes, like I never really knew about it or thought about it until my friend in college was like, we're gonna take nutrition. I was like, Okay. but also I was so focused on like business and that kind of stuff. So that I didn't I didn't care about the science part of it. I wasn't really looking at that. So maybe that's part of it too. But I mean, I don't know. I don't know. These are good questions. We should ask around. Kristen Hicks-Roof: When I think there's so much science when you think about cooking in the kitchen. So you are interested in the science. It was just like, how do these blend? So talk Abbie Gellman: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: about like what kind of jobs have you had after you decided to become a dietitian after a pretty, you know, successful career in in business? Like, I'm sure that probably Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: gave you a leg up because you understood business and marketing that many dietitians who want to go out on their own don't have. So what kind of jobs Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: have you had? And then kind of like Talk to me a little bit about when and how you decided to form your own company. Abbie Gellman: Sure. so it definitely gives me a leg up and I still teach interns how to use Excel and stuff now. Like that. That was my bread and butter. so I grad when I graduated from TC, I did my internship at New York Presbyterian. So I did full-on clinical for a year. And that's when I realized, like, no, this is not, this is not where I'm gonna land. and I was lucky enough to get a job right out of there. And there were in New York City at the time, there was a Michelin Star restaurant that had a chef and a dietitian in the kitchen. And they also had a consulting arm on the side. So I fit into that perfectly, right? So I got a job on the consulting arm. I was able to do the chef side, the project management, like business side, and also the dietitian side. and I was there for a year and then kind of a A little bit after well, maybe like 14 months, then they shut down the restaurant and kind of rearranged how things were done at the consulting firm. And I said, Well, I can kind of do this on my own and left and put Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. Abbie Gellman: out put out a shingle. and that's when I started my life as a hustler, is essentially kind of what I call it, right? So over That was twenty fourteen, October twenty fourteen. So it's been like twelve years. So everything I've done has kind of morphed and changed over that time. but in the beginning I did private chef work, but I realized really quickly that I would only do it for people who had a medical need. So if you were j I live in New York City. So if you were just wanting weight loss or raw vegan or pick a something, you are not my client. But if you had ulcerative colitis or diabetes or something that required it, then I started out doing it that way. got a job at hospital for special surgery as a per diem dietitian, so I could work whenever I wanted. and then started just networking, going to Fenty, going to all the events, meeting PR companies and commodity boards and companies, and found a guy who was also new in like the video world. And we teamed up together and I started doing videos. Like just filming all my recipe videos. And we would and I didn't live in my apartment. So I had to go to friends that had better kitchens. So and he lives in Philly. So he would drive in and every month we would like take all of our stuff and go to all my friends' different homes that had better kitchens and just crank out videos. And I would do it for free and like tag different companies I was interested in working with, where I liked their food or their products or whatever. And then just kept meeting people and meeting people and showing I could do the work and what I could do and all of that. And then eventually people were like, I saw your video or I saw your art food nutrition magazine was was a thing then. So I wrote a lot for them and recipes and stuff too. So that just kind of doing all of that. put me on the trajectory that I'm on now. and where are we? Where so 12 years later, I coming out of I'll skip a bunch, but coming out of COVID, so most of my stuff right now is two groups. One is I'm director of culinary medicine and teaching kitchen at a safety net hospital in the Bronx. So it's St. Barnabas Health or SBH. But I have a team of people who work for me there. And it's been almost five years. And I run it and I'm in the Bronx once or twice a week, but I don't run the day-to-day. Like I have a team who does that. And then everything else is I still do a lot of recipe development. I still do all the videos. a lot of speaking engagements, live or virtual. I was doing a lot of news segments. I don't do as many of those anymore, but that's kind of like my whole Like piecing everything together now. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Full hustler. Abbie Gellman: A full hustler. and also I do medically tailored meal stuff with a non profit called Rethink Food. So I do that with them Kristen Hicks-Roof: That's awesome. You know, Abbie Gellman: too. Kristen Hicks-Roof: it's so funny because every time I see dietitians who've been very successful in their career, they never wear one hat. They literally never Abbie Gellman: You can't. You can't, right? Because I and this is why I always find it so interesting that like the financial world or when you want a mortgage or whatever, they're like, you need a W-2, you need one job. Well, if I lose that one job, then I just lost everything. But right now I have all of these different things happening, so I never get bored, right? But also if this one goes away, then this one takes its place. So Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, and I and I think you've probably noticed too, like business ebbs and flows, right? Depending on what conferences Abbie Gellman: That's right. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: are coming up or what speed engagements or side projects. And I think that's one of the challenging parts for many people who want to go into having their own company of contracting and consulting, that it's not as consistent. Do you have any tips or strategies for people as they're trying to like navigate those waters and and and being comfortable with the inconsistency? Abbie Gellman: Yeah, I mean I I like risk. I don't mind it. So you have to be comfortable with that, first of all, right? But I have a profit and loss statement and I have I track out my months. So like get next get out excel, make a little sheet of stuff, and I know, you know, I just got a something with some commodity board. They want me to do a webinar, so I know that I'm gonna get paid for you know, these two months for that. And I drop that in and I can see where the holes are and where I want to try to fill up the space with more work or where I have enough. Right. So, and also know what your monthly expenses are because you might make five hundred dollars this month and five thousand the next and f you know, pick a number, but just try to stay consistent and keep things in your bank account, so you're always drawing down the same amount. Kristen Hicks-Roof: The same when when I was a researcher, you're forecasting, you're writing grants for future projects to manage the people Abbie Gellman: That's right. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: and money and kind of so I think a lot of us actually do this in our day to day. It's just how do you translate that, right? And so I think that's what a lot of people, it's the fear of the unknown of going out on their own. And what does it look like? So talk to me a little bit, and and I'm glad you you said, like the director of culinary medicine. What does that entail and how did you find that opportunity? Abbie Gellman: so we were coming out of COVID, and every once in a while I still look at jobs because why not? They come across, right? Kristen Hicks-Roof: Why not? Yeah. Abbie Gellman: and it was coming out of COVID, and I like the 2020 proper was fine, right? Like I was already set up for videos, but then 2021 hit and suddenly everyone else caught up with me. So I wasn't so I needed to fill holes. and there was a posting. For the job and I reached out, it had opened it right like the month before COVID. So the person who had they had put in place for the job was not from New York. And if you're not from New York and don't understand how New York City works, especially the Bronx, it's real hard. So that was a one issue, and also COVID, right? So she she left. So they were looking to replace her, and they never got off the ground because It was COVID. And there was one employee that she had hired during her time who was there. So I went in and we ended up kind of negotiating a contract so that I could still do all my other work and then do this. So over five years, that's kind of grown too. So now I have a team of three. We have we're open six days a week. So it's a full, beautiful teaching kitchen. If you've ever been to Gold Ring Center, it was built to spec. Like it looks exactly like so we do everything from like community classes for whomever. I teach the residents at our program. I teach the medical residents from Mona Fjord. I do like renal classes, diabetes classes, we work with local high schools. We have a rooftop garden. So we'll do like they come in and they're in the garden, then they're with us for a hands-on and nutrition education. I'll do cooking demos with slides, I'll do, we'll do hands-on. Cooking classes. I mean, like we right now, like we're full, we're full six days a week now. From like when I walked in, nothing, barely anyone coming for anything. They didn't know we were there. And now we're we just started our weekend classes last weekend. So, and we're Kristen Hicks-Roof: Awesome. Abbie Gellman: doing we're doing like a pharmacy program for the second year in a row where we give away 75 bags of produce every Wednesday for like 15 weeks, and we track you know the medical records that we can on that and see how people change from the beginning to the end and all of that too. yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: That's cool. And honestly, I do think, you know, like I said, there's a lot of interest in some of these like produce subscription programs, medically tailored meals, culinary medicine. Like I think it's continuing Abbie Gellman: Yes, yes, yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof: to balloon. I mean, I wrote my first paper, gosh, 13 years ago on the need for physicians to get more nutrition education. And that was before many other people also wrote papers and you know, neur news articles and journals. So this has been going on for 30 plus years. And I feel like it's it's coming, Abbie Gellman: Forever and now it's finally, yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: right? Like it's I would say it's full blown here, but it's not yet. I feel like you're still in the five to 10% compared to what the potential is. so hopefully that will continue to grow. And that's cool that you've got to grow the program and see the the amount of people that you then impact. Like I think that's one of the favorite, my favorite parts about being a dietitian. You have individual level impact. Community level impact, population level impact, right? Like depending if you do a media segment versus a training or something like that. So that's awesome. Abbie Gellman: Yep. Yeah, and my my again, all my different buckets affect different people, right? So currently the majority of my time probably affects, you know, mostly low income populations between medically tailored meals and the safety net hospital. Whereas the website and the news segments and all of that might be know. middle or higher income at you know, and then I also do stuff with health professionals. A lot of the, you know, teaching dietitians how to cook and using culinary as part of their their skill set too. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. When it is fun that you can we can help people of all different groups depending on education, economics. I mean, there's so many different layers. So how Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: do you use you know, you talked about your profit and loss spreadsheet, which I love that because a lot of people don't know what the PL is, but like how do you use data and science to like in your day to day, whether it's in the culinary medicine role or kind of in your consulting business? Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Whether I'm talking to health professionals or consumers, it doesn't really matter. I always do evidence based and talk about science. Everything has to be supported by science. and the thing I've been saying lately to everyone is 'cause every it's like stable, right? Like everyone thinks it's boring, it's eat fruits and vegetables and you know what I'm saying. So I keep saying stable is the new sexy. Right. So like when I was in my twenties, I wanted the bad boy and and the you know, all the things. But now that I'm in my fifties, I want stable, consistent, like that's what matters. So that's that's kind of like the messaging that I've adopted lately is is stable can be sexy and and that's what lasts long term. So how do we do that without getting bored or feeling like we're missing a trend or something? Kristen Hicks-Roof: Think if you lived during the 80s, this is difficult because there was no stability in the 80s and 90s, right? You talked about Abbie Gellman: That's right. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: the snack wells and the low fat, and then it was low sugar, and then it was 100 calorie packs. It's like people Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: have been on restricted dietary regimens their whole lives, whether you're, you know, Abbie Gellman: Whole lives. Yep. Kristen Hicks-Roof: a boomer, a dead ex millennial, like you have Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: been on that. So I like that concept of stability because. I think it allows people to say, Hey, I don't have to be perfect. I don't have to have cheat days. It's how can I just improve Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: one day at a time? Abbie Gellman: That's right, exactly. And I also do a lot with portion size, especially for the audiences I work with, because have rice. I don't care. But don't have rice. Have rice. You know what I mean? Like we all just have to work with a portion size. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. Well, and I think that's gonna be something that's really fascinating with like GLP ones and how people, you know, we've gone to okay, reduce how much and then you have a GLP one consumer and you're like, you need to eat more, right? And so it's Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: like almost cognitively we're we're having different messages, which makes sense because you have different, you know, physiology that's happening with those people. So I just think it's Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: fascinating how our field has kind of like just modified through the years. so what's been Your favorite or something you're most proud of so far in your career? Abbie Gellman: That's a good question. Kristen Hicks-Roof: And there's a lot, Abby. You're very successful. Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: So you're you're like pause is saying, Okay, wait, you've written a lot of articles, you've done a bunch of you know, you've been on stages, Abbie Gellman: Like cookbooks. Kristen Hicks-Roof: you've had yeah. Abbie Gellman: I don't know. I think I think w I'm trying to think of like what pops up me telling people the most. I think writing the cookbooks is one, but also how many times I've spoken at Fenty. So in the last ten years, I think I've spoken at every Fenty or been like part of the like during COVID, I I'd worked with like watermelon board and ignition and to do like we pre recorded like stuff for the expo, if that makes sense. I think current year upcoming is the first year I haven't done anything in ten years. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Which will in a way be a relief. Like Abbie Gellman: I'm like excited to just I was like, I have to pay for my registration? What's that about? I don't understand. But it'll be nice to like not have to do anything. Kristen Hicks-Roof: And that's a really big deal. For those of you who've never been to Fenty or who've never spoken at Fenty, like those are real it's a really challenging conference to get into. It's so much competition and there are incredible speakers. We have a lot of fellow, you know, dietitians who are awesome. So that I think that is a a pr impressive moment. I know I've applied many years. I get to speak at Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Fenty this year, it was just really exciting. I've spoken a few times, but You never know what they're gonna, you know, what Abbie Gellman: You never know. Kristen Hicks-Roof: they're gonna accept, why they're gonna accept it. But if you do submit a session, I did learn a couple years ago, you can if you get denied, you can actually reply back and get feedback and they will give you feedback. Abbie Gellman: That's good. Okay. Noted. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Which is super cool because like one time we got denied because they were like the speakers are too close in the topic area. Like and so the next year we just Abbie Gellman: you need a more diverse name. Kristen Hicks-Roof: changed one speaker and we got accepted. So so it Abbie Gellman: Great. Perfect. I love that. Okay. Kristen Hicks-Roof: it is helpful to find that. So Abby, you know, you've had again, I feel like you've downplayed it little bit because you've had, you know, your books and your media and audio, and you even talked about like releasing cooking videos. before like Abbie Gellman: So yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: telehealth and technology were really fully adopted, right? Like there's a lot of really cool Abbie Gellman: Yeah. I have a lot. Kristen Hicks-Roof: things that you've been on the the leading edge. So what advice or tips would you have for people who are interested in a career path like yours and or kind of this combination of credentials? Abbie Gellman: Well, for the culinary side, I know I went to culinary school and worked in restaurants, but you don't have to do that, right? Because cooking is something that you just get better with practice. So you just have to be proficient and comfortable and do it over and over, right? So and obviously have a passion for cooking. That would be important. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: be important. It goes back to the like if you're gonna be a dietitian, do you even care about the cooking side? You might not. Abbie Gellman: Do you do even care about food? That's right. I hope that you do. as far as the hustle part or all the different moving parts, I mean you just have to have a certain level of comfort with risk, right? And you also I find myself telling this to the newer RDs a lot now too, and the younger folks. Like, just 'cause you have a degree doesn't mean that you need to get hired that someone should hire you, right? So like you still have to prove What you know, your ability to do things, your like I still have clients thanking me for responding so quickly, which I find a little disconcerting because who's not replying? Do you know what I mean? So Kristen Hicks-Roof: So many people, Abby, so many people don't reply or it's like gays. Abbie Gellman: Just makes me crazy. Like I so let's say responsiveness, thoroughness, like over like under promising, Kristen Hicks-Roof: Being on time. Abbie Gellman: over deliver. Like if I say something's due next week, I've done it already. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm I'm giving it already to you. like be professional. Be on top of things. I know, but I can't I can't. Kristen Hicks-Roof: laughing and I shouldn't be laughing, but I have I mean I've seen this in my, you know, fifteen plus years in the industry. I've seen it in every role that I've ever had. It's the same thing over and over. It's like know if people just don't get taught some of those skills. Like it's almost like the soft skills, Abbie Gellman: Maybe. Kristen Hicks-Roof: right? You have the knowledge. You're right. Like I'm not worried about the knowledge side of it. I'm worried, can you deliver? And will you will you have eye contact? Will you be able to like give a professional viewpoint? You know, there's a lot of things where I'm like, you have the knowledge, but you just can't deliver. Abbie Gellman: Yeah. And and so it's just time and practice, right? So like the if you look at the first video I did ten or twelve years ago, it's probably like a hot hot dumpster fire, right? But now I'm like, we're we're going, whatever, let's just go. I just need my bullet but you it's it's this is the normal, this is the it's easy. but that's just practice and experience and time. And also like you're developing relationships. you're not walking up to someone and saying, I just graduated or I'm a dietitian, so you should pay me to do whatever. They don't know you. Like you have to have a relationship with them and then maybe they'll throw you some work. Like you're not just gonna get it. So thoughts knows. Kristen Hicks-Roof: When I liked your example when you were talking about, you know, when you first started, you were just making videos and just putting them out there, cooking recipes. And Abbie Gellman: Yep. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: sometimes you have to do that hustle to be able to break through, right? And I mean, even if a hundred percent. Abbie Gellman: You have to prove who you are. They don't know. Yeah. Well, also, this was the other thing for the younger folks. I joined the Nutrition Entrepreneur DPG executive board. So I did that for a few years. The women who work for me now, I make that that's on their professional when we every year we go through their review or whatever. I make them join a DPG board because that's how they're gonna meet people, that's how they're gonna get involved, that's how they're gonna do more stuff. So that I mean that that's how I met friends. I made my a lot of my dietitian friends that way too. Like it's that's how you do it. Kristen Hicks-Roof: When and one of the things that I like to give, you know, feedback to a lot of people who ask me for career guidance and stuff like that, I'm like, just get involved. Like you could be a treasurer for an organization. Like, or you could be a an Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: a delegate. Like it doesn't mean you have to be the president or the leader of an organization. And it can be involved Abbie Gellman: That's right. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: at your local level, at your state, at the national. I mean, choose Abbie Gellman: Yep. Yep. Kristen Hicks-Roof: what you actually like to do. If you like to cook, get involved with something related with cooking. Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Right. Or if you like diabetes management, get involved with something for diabetes. It doesn't mean you have to take positions where you're no you have no desire or interest. So I think that is really Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: helpful feedback. Abbie Gellman: Yeah, it's more of like a s you're trying to think in a strategic mindset, right? That's what you have to move into, essentially. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. Okay, my favorite question, Abby. If you had a crystal ball, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Abbie Gellman: I mean I guess it depends on what we want to talk about. If we wanna talk about trends Kristen Hicks-Roof: We can talk about anything. What do you think is coming next? If you were to forecast and can you Abbie Gellman: I mean it's all some of it is like what I hope is coming. But so I mean protein, fiber are never going away. I kind of just think that now instead of like protein, fiber, they're they're being spoken about together, if that makes sense. And with Kristen Hicks-Roof: Totally. Abbie Gellman: the GLP one, which you mentioned before and everything else. So I think the next phase is and I just put out it might have been last week on my Instagram, like, what does thirty grams of protein look like? If you're telling me to eat thirty pro grams of protein, what does that look like? What are the examples, right? So like I But what is it if thirty grams of protein and ten grams of fiber, what does that look like? What does that mean? Like kind of joining them together. Kristen Hicks-Roof: And what a great example about you can tell people knowledge, right? You can teach people all day. But if the dietician doesn't understand how many grams Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: of protein are in these beans or how much fiber is Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: in sorgh or whatever, it's almost not related, right? Like that people don't know how Abbie Gellman: That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: to translate that. They're like, Yeah, I I'll eat 10 grams of fiber and they like, Okay, I'm just gonna take supplements. You know what I mean? Abbie Gellman: Yeah. But and it ha yes. All the sublimations. But it has to be realistic too. Like you can't say go eat t you know, two cups of beans. Like it has to be a balanced plate and all the other stuff, which is what we're supposed to be giving them, right? Bal like real balance information. Let's see what else. Longevity. I mean, that's never ending. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Do you think that will continue to gain trend? What do you think? Abbie Gellman: I do. I do. And I'm I'm hoping I'm hoping it'll go away from like the fitness bro peptide thing and more towards like muscle mass and mental capacity and brain health and like how to use food to do that. I don't Kristen Hicks-Roof: Totally. Abbie Gellman: know if that'll happen. I kind of hope that that will happen. Kristen Hicks-Roof: I've seen it though, like so. I'm a millennial and I've seen a lot of my friends is like fitness and muscle and strength is the new trend, right? Like, and I Abbie Gellman: Which I love so much, yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: love that too. But my biggest question, like, you know, I saw, for example, like Hillary Duff just did a promotion with ladders, which is like a fitness. Love that. I love that. My question Abbie Gellman: I have ladder. I love ladder. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Kristen Hicks-Roof: is, how do we get nutrition services integrated? on those sorts of platforms? Why do they have to be a separate, you know, on something else? Why can't it be an all in one? Abbie Gellman: A separate thing. Ladder does have like a nutrition tracking. They have nutrition tracking, but it's not and I say this only 'cause I'm in there and I see what the coaches, I guess I call them, tell people. Like they should not be the ones giving the nutrition advice. There needs to be like an integration, right? That's the next step. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, and I what a great opportunity for dietitians, you know, to say, hey, I see you're working out. Are you making sure that you're getting enough, you know, of X nutrient? Hey, here's some food examples of how you can bring it in. Here's some recipes that we can curate, right? Like there's ways that we can I think the it's a great trend, but it's still everything in isolation. And there's so much of the wellness Abbie Gellman: Yeah. That's right. Kristen Hicks-Roof: industry that is pushing that, which I'm all for. Abbie Gellman: Yeah. Yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof: I like wellness, don't get me wrong. What is it? Wellness without nutrition, Abbie Gellman: It's different. Kristen Hicks-Roof: I don't know if there's value there. Abbie Gellman: Yeah. And how do we get here's map? How do we muscle our way in there? To Kristen Hicks-Roof: It's hard. Abbie Gellman: to do it. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah, it's it's hard and it takes people who are willing to open the doors, right? Like I remember when I was interested in becoming a sports dietitian when I was an undergrad. There was almost no universities that had dieticians on staff. Like I was a nutrition student and they were like, You're our nutrition expert for gymnastics. And I'm like, I'm a junior. Like, that is really complicated. Abbie Gellman: How is that? Kristen Hicks-Roof: I don't think I'm like, I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to help a gymnast who it is like very tightly controlled and what they're eating and when they're eating, right? Like nutrient optimization. I'm like, I don't Abbie Gellman: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: think that I have the skills for this. so yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunity in the aging space. I am surprised you didn't say more in culinary medicine because that's your bread and butter. Abbie Gellman: I mean, food is medicine continues to evolve. I have I'm going to a teaching kitchen conference tomorrow. I love it and I like that people are finally talking about it, but it's very academics still and very physician forward, academia, academic forward. So I still feel like the nutrition dietitian component needs more say or needs more room. So Yes, that is growing. And I feel like we're slowly like tapping on the window saying, we're still Kristen Hicks-Roof: I feel like Abbie Gellman: what about we're here, but we're here. Kristen Hicks-Roof: This is a red thread across everything that's happening. Like, why are dietitians not the leading experts in some of these spaces that we have the knowledge, expertise, skill sets to be there? So I challenge anyone who's listening, break open the doors, give us opportunity for dietitians to come in, just like Abby, how you're building, you know, as director of culinary medicine. Like we need more dietitians to build out programs and show the value of bringing dietitians in. So Abby, thanks so much for being on the show, telling your story and giving tips and advice. Remember, if you like the podcast, Abbie Gellman: Thank you. Kristen Hicks-Roof: you can like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring out a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.