Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Which Men Have Trouble Empathizing With Women?

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Which Men Have Trouble Empathizing With Women? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

0:05
Hi everybody, and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
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Today we're going to talk about which men have trouble
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empathizing with women. But before we do that, we're
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All right. So let's move on to today's
0:47
topic which is there are certain men and I see them in couples
0:52
counseling and an individual counseling and I have a lot of
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trouble empathy with women and certainly there's women who have
0:59
trouble empathizing with men too.
1:01
But you know men are men are more often main characters quite
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honestly in movies and books. And you know, I mean they are
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they are generally who things are written about.
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It's kind of women are more empathic generally, you know,
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they understand more about emotions.
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So I've never really seen an equivalency in this where the
1:24
same amount of women have trouble empathizing with men as
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the inverse. Usually women can empathize all
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right with men except for the sex part, because that they they
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just have never felt anything like it.
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Sometimes like the sex drive that a man has, and so they
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really don't get it. And so so much of my work is
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focused on teaching women what it is like to be a man, what sex
1:49
means to a man, what physical touch means to a man, etc.
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But in terms of like, seeing what a man would be insecure
1:56
about or things like that, women usually a little bit better.
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And men are, quite honestly, they are, you know, they've been
2:02
studying men. Women like Cosmo magazine and 17
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Magazine is all like, what's he thinking?
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You know, like you've been like trying to figure out men since
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the time you were like, you know, 12 years old for most
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women. And.
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And so then they get better at it.
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They like novels. They like stories.
2:20
They like thinking about feelings.
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You know, they they're, they're just a little better at
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empathizing. And the majority of men think
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that. And you could see by who goes
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into certain professions. Most therapists are women, and
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that's people who are really into emotions and into
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empathizing. And teachers most caretaking,
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you know, nurses, these kind of people.
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Right. And so anyway, which men,
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though, are particularly bad at empathizing with women?
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Well, let's start with who's particularly good at it, the men
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who are particularly good at empathizing with women.
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Women usually had a close relationship with their mother,
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not in mesh, not some crazy thing where they're like a
2:58
surrogate spouse, but you know, they love their mother.
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Their mother talks to them, you know, about things, feelings,
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her thoughts, her day, what she does all day, whatever.
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And sisters, If you have sisters, then you tend to be
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better at empathizing with women because you grew up side by side
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with a woman, particularly a sister, who is in the same age
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bracket. Then it's kind of hard to think
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that you don't understand women because you've been growing up
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right alongside with a woman, and you might have been kind of
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similar all along. And then hormones came, and then
3:29
she shifted and started caring about certain things that you
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didn't care about, makeup and clothes and whatever.
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And then you understood that, you know, women are different,
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but they still come from the little girl that was just your
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sister. And they're human beings, you
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know, And while this may not seem like an epiphany, it is for
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some men. Why else do men struggle with
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empathizing? Well, there's more men that are
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on the spectrum, you know, that have trouble, that are what we
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used to call Asperger's, and now it's all autism spectrum.
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So men who have trouble empathizing with feelings in
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general and expressing feelings in, you know, verbally and
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understanding when they have feelings.
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So that's something called alexithymia.
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There are more men who are alexithymic, meaning that they
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cannot I even identity identify their emotions.
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And I have posts about alexithymia, if you want to read
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that on Doctor Psych mom.com. So there's more men on the
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spectrum, there's more men who are alexithymic.
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Men are raised not to think much about feelings or empathy as
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much as women are, you know? And so if it that's like more
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how men just are, is like less open and aware of their own
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emotions, Now which men are going to be worse compared to
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others? Men that didn't have sisters or
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that were not close to their sisters at all, either in age or
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emotionally. And men that did not have close
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relationships with a mother, especially a mother who was a
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more emotional person. So if you think that your mom
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was great, but honestly, you kind of have no idea what the
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hell she thought about all day or you know, what she did then,
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or, I mean, what she did is pretty obvious.
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But, you know, if you have no idea about the internal workings
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of your mother at all, then you know it's going to be hard for
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you to understand your now adult mother or wife that that is at
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the same age and stage that your mother was when you were young.
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I mean, shit, you didn't understand your mother then, so
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you don't understand your wife when she's at this stage now,
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you know? And if you're already somebody
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who struggles with feelings and emotional expression in general,
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I mean, this all comes back to the same thing, right?
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I mean, so a woman who is less emotionally expressive is not
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going to teach emotions and emotional expression to her
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children, especially the boy. Women just kind of love the boy.
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They don't feel like they have to instruct him in certain ways,
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which is why I'm always encouraging women to share their
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feelings more with their sons so that and have a post on that.
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It's like women share your feelings with your son to make
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him a better husband later or something like that.
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Because women, a lot of women just feel like their role with a
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boy is just to love him and to protect him and facilitate his
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development. Whereas with a girl, it's more
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of an instructional role of how to be a woman.
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So there's more engagement on, you know, what to do, what to
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think, how to act. And with a boy, it's more like,
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you know, hug him, make him a sandwich, ask about his day.
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But a lot of women also don't really think the boy would be
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interested in anything that they do or that they think about,
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especially if they have low self esteem.
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So if you have a low self esteem, not very emotionally
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expressive mother, that really ends up not teaching the boy a
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lot about women. And if he doesn't have any
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sisters, then he's kind of screwed.
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And these are the men that, like, literally do not
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understand women at all, you know?
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And then, I mean, it goes even further because men don't
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usually watch TV shows for women, you know, and they don't
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read novels where women star. You know, like everybody's got
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to read about Holden Caulfield, right, And catch her in the rye.
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But I can't really think of of a classic book where the
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protagonist is a female that is like the favorite of boys.
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I don't. It didn't really used to be like
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that. Maybe it is now.
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Maybe the curricula are being refurbished.
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And that would be great, Quite honestly.
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There's actually studies that show that reading literary
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fiction can enhance empathy, and I would only imagine that that
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would be amplified if it was an opposite gender protagonist,
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which it usually was for women reading books in general because
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there was usually a guy you know that was the protagonist.
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But but if if if boys, and this is I actually do recommend this
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for my male clients. If they struggle with empathy, I
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recommend books where the where the protagonist is a female.
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One good one most recently that I read is How to Love Your
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Daughter by HeLa Bloom, HILA Space Blum HeLa Bloom.
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It's a really good book about mother, daughter and meshment.
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And I had been, you know, recommending it to a few clients
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who I thought would benefit. But right now it's relevant so
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to our topic. So why don't you read that one
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if you're a guy, Also read it if you're a woman, if you're a
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woman. It's a really good book.
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A woman who's a mother, who has a mother.
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It's really good. But anyway, so but men don't
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usually read novels, and they certainly don't read novels
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where the main character is a woman.
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So the point is that a lot of men have no fucking idea.
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Like, literally, that's why I write posts like men.
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Here are nine things that your wife thinks about all day.
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And that post by itself was like super popular and men were
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writing in and they were like, holy shit, this really helped me
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understand my wife. Men don't understand how much
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the woman thinks about her body. They don't understand stand how
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much she thinks about food. They don't understand how
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important the kids are. They know the kids are
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important, but they don't know that she thinks about the kids
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and their emotional and moral development like constantly.
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They don't understand her insecurities, her guilt.
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Constantly she's thinking about ways to balance being a mother,
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a wife, an employee, this, that, and the other.
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I mean, they just have no idea. And of course, to some degree,
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women do not understand how much, for example, the man
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worries about money. But you know what?
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They understand it a little bit more than than the than the
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converse. Than men understand how much the
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woman worries about her body, just as an example.
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So the men that particularly struggle with this, again, they
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did not have emotionally expressive mothers.
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They were not raised with with sisters and often they don't
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have daughters because if they have daughters then then they
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have like a crash course. And understanding a woman is a
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tiny little girl and then they understand her all the way up
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through. But men, I mean, so, So what
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would a worst case be? A guy who's a little bit on the
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spectrum not enough that anybody would diagnose him but you know,
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he's just really not an emotional guy, really does not
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understand feelings, was raised by an unemotional mother and has
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only had sons or hasn't had kids yet and didn't have sisters or
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wasn't close to them and is in more of a math science business
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occupation that's male dominated.
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So he didn't really understand, you know, get to know any
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females really closely and work. And then this guy gets into
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couples counseling. And I say like almost the most
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basic things about women. Like, you know, the one about
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sex drive going down over time and they are like just fucking
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like it's like epiphany central like thing after thing, you
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know, it's like there. It's like gospel, like pearls
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are dripping from my mouth because they've never understood
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anything. Which brings us to why they
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don't understand anything in the real in like just currently
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forget about the past. Women that are married to these
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guys, they they really overestimate the amount that the
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guy knows because they are a woman.
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So they think certain things are obvious, for example, that the
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sex drive goes down over time, Not that there's women do not
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know that before it happens 100%.
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Like that's it's like, whoa, what?
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Like this new guy with his awesome penis is not going to
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make me want to have sex twice a day for the rest of my life.
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Holy shit. But then of course, when it
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happens, they become aware, like, OK, now I'm pregnant or
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now I have a baby, so this is different.
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And so then these women who are not the most, you know,
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confident women that marry these kind of guys because these kind
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of guys aren't the most, aren't the best with women.
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So people who are not as confident tend to marry each
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other. So these guys aren't super
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confident with women. And so they end up marrying
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women that are not super confident with with guys.
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And so these women do not kind of explain what goes on in their
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head because they're really not confident.
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You know, that they're very interesting and they think that
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the guy must understand them. It's a common human assumption.
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If you think something, then it's hard to perspective take
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and understand that everybody doesn't understand what's going
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on in your head. You know if if you know
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something to be real and true, it's hard to understand that
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that you know it's theory of mind.
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It's hard to understand that everybody doesn't understand
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what you think inside your head. So anyway, these guys partner
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themselves with women who don't really take a very instructive
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role in helping them understand women because they are not very
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confident in in taking such a role.
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They're not super confident people.
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So what do you do in this situation where, like, you have
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realized over time that your husband really doesn't
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understand you or women at all? Or maybe it's coming up time to
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understand your daughter because she's gotten older and she's not
12:35
a lesson to The things that he's saying have like nothing to do
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with reality or whatever the case may be.
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You're realizing that you know your husband doesn't understand
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you after years together. Well, you've got to really try
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to teach him. This is something that people
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this is like the key. This is the best part about
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therapy or couples therapy is the instructional component of
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it, right? Where either I if I'm with a man
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individually, if he's my individual client, I can talk to
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him about women. But in couples counseling, I can
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help the woman teach the guy about what goes on in her head.
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And of course the inverse as well him he teaches her about
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what's going on in his head. But there's so many people that
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do not think that they have to do this or should have to do
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this or that this is done or how to do this.
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And these men lock out when they marry women that are very
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emotionally expressive and very verbal, which sometimes they do.
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So a lot of times guys that are on the spectrum will
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specifically literally marry therapists.
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I've seen this happen so many times.
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And then the therapist is like, this shit is even beyond me.
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I need even a higher level therapist, like, you know, not
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higher level in terms of like there's a ranking, but you know,
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like the therapist will come to couples therapy to get like
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another therapist who's supposed to be their therapist to teach
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their husband because she just can't even do it anymore.
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But instinctively, the guys who are not as emotionally aware or
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expressive sometimes really are drawn to women who are super
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emotionally expressive because their instinct teaches them that
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they don't know anything about this.
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And like, basically, if they're going to raise kids with
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somebody, it's got to be somebody who's like, way off the
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charts and this thing that they're way under, you know,
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like they're they're bad at. Right.
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So instinctively, sometimes they're drawn to more emotional
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women. So a best case scenario for this
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kind of man is if he's with a woman who's like, no, this is
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what I think. This is what I think about.
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I think about this and this is what women are like.
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And this is, this is what your sister's probably thinking, oh,
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we should get this gift for your mother because your mother
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thinks this or that or, you know, and like these guys, it's
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like an epiphany. It's like, it's like somebody is
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like looking at their, their family.
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This is very common in the honeymoon stage, by the way.
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So this guy that doesn't understand women or emotions for
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shit gets together with this woman that's super into emotions
14:58
on people. And she's like, Oh my God, the
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dynamic between your brother and your mother is so interesting.
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He's like, the hell are you talking about what you know?
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And she has like all these insights about his upbringing.
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She finds him so interesting And, you know, and this is the
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first time he's ever thought that he has anything like an
15:14
interesting story because his house was just his house.
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The people in it were just the people in it.
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And that is what it is. And so the problem with this
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relationship comes when she's so hyped up on teaching him all
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about the world and the world of emotions and people that she
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forgets that he's not. And and he's very, you know,
15:32
happy and and loving, but he's not emotionally aware enough.
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You know, he's listening, he's learning, but he himself is not
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able to make any insights and he can't really pick up on anything
15:44
without her telling him. And so this is how these women
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end up in couples counseling so many years later saying I never
15:52
realized, but he doesn't really, you know, know, me.
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And he doesn't really ask anything about knowing me.
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And we, we're really not on the same page at all because I don't
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think he understands feelings. And I think I was just kind of
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teaching him about them all these years.
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And he just never, you know, asked about mine or cares about
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mine. And he knows nothing that I
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think or no matter what I tell him is he's always kind of so
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off. And these are a lot of times
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guys that have not been diagnosed yet with, you know,
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being on the spectrum or or sometimes they are just guys
16:25
that were really raised in unemotional households and
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they're kind of unemotional guys.
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And this just is not their language.
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They just can't do it. And I I talk about this when I
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say about highly sensitive women married to quote, highly
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insensitive people. Well, there I talk about people
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who can withstand anything and nothing really bothers them.
16:44
But there are actually highly insensitive in the real
16:48
definition of the word insensitive people, where they
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just are tactless and they just have no understanding of of
16:56
feelings or emotions. And those relationships tend to
16:59
go worse over time. You know, the woman gets more
17:03
and more frustrated with that. She never feels fully
17:05
understood, and couples counseling can help.
17:08
It can't turn the guy into somebody who's awesome with
17:10
feelings instinctively, but it can certainly take the load off
17:14
of the woman of constantly self explaining and help you know
17:19
another person. Come in and and instruct the guy
17:24
in what she's thinking and also help her to have more compassion
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again for him, you know, because sometimes she loses compassion.
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She almost thinks that he's a robot.
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So it kind of doesn't matter how she acts and if she sleeps with
17:36
him or if she's nice to him at all because it's from her
17:38
perspective. He barely has any feelings.
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And of course that's not true. He just can't really access and
17:45
express the feelings. So, you know, it's like if a
17:47
tree falls in the forest type of thing.
17:49
If a man has an emotion but he can't express it, you know, is
17:52
he a robot? You know, sometimes his wife
17:54
will say yes. It doesn't really mean that he
17:57
is, you know. So anyway, if this resonates
18:01
with you and you're the man in this situation and you're very
18:04
bad with feelings and you've always women have just been kind
18:07
of a black box to you and you have no fucking idea what they
18:10
think, therapy can really help it It is.
18:14
You're probably going to want to get a male therapist to be your
18:17
spirit guide on that journey. But, you know, you should
18:19
probably just get a woman for obvious reasons, because she's a
18:22
woman, you know, so women know what women think better than men
18:25
do. Even like the men that think
18:26
they know a lot about women. Same thing.
18:28
I mean, you know, if if you're a woman you know, and you really
18:32
want to know what a man thinks, read some shit written by a man,
18:36
get a male. It's see, it's like, it's not.
18:38
It's not a functionally equivalent because, like, it's
18:41
funny. Like I was going to say get a
18:43
male therapist and I was like the say get a male therapist
18:45
because otherwise it seems like you're, you know, you're only
18:48
saying that a female therapist is good.
18:51
Listen, like, let me be real. The men who are therapists are
18:55
not usual. They are unusually emotionally
18:59
aware and sensitive men. They are not the same type as
19:04
your husband. If this is your issue that he's
19:07
very emotionally, you know, not present, you know you may fall
19:14
in love with your male therapist because he's so fucking
19:17
emotionally open, but the overlap between him and your
19:21
husband is going to be low. So that's why I say maybe read
19:24
books is better, you know, like reread like this shit Tim
19:28
Ferriss writes or something like that can help you understand
19:31
your husband. Read the stuff he reads.
19:34
Go on the websites. He goes on to understand more
19:37
about him. You know and and and couples
19:40
therapy can help because any good couples counselor translate
19:44
people to one another. But you know, but it would be a
19:48
risk matter. I for real, like if you're like
19:50
an emotionally starved woman and you find yourself.
19:54
I have a post about this. A woman wrote him I'm in love
19:56
with my male therapist. You know if the only thing
19:59
you're not getting from your husband is emotion and then like
20:02
once a week you go and you find yourself a man that understands
20:06
your emotion. I mean, I don't know, like,
20:08
like, you know, I've seen people develop a lot of transference in
20:12
those situations. So, but you know, of course
20:16
there's excellent male therapist.
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Obviously there's excellent male therapist, but in this unique
20:23
situation, you know that that may not be the best choice
20:28
unless it is the best choice, unless you think that you know
20:30
you have never really had good relationships with men.
20:33
Here's the situation where a woman should get a male
20:35
therapist. If you have never trusted men
20:37
and you think that all men are assholes and your father left
20:41
and he was a piece of shit and whatever, whatever, then you
20:44
should get a male therapist. Because that will show you that
20:46
there are men that are emotionally aware and can be
20:49
caring and, you know, safe and stable presences in your life.
20:56
So that's the situation where you should and I have a whole
20:58
post about whether you should get a therapist similar to you
21:00
or different or whatever. But that's beyond the scope of
21:03
this because we are ending. So I hope that you got a lot of
21:06
useful Intel out of this episode and I will talk to y'all soon.
21:10
Have a great day.