Latest / Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact / Building a $100M Brand with Empathy: Grace Lee Chen, Founder of Birdy Grey

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Building a $100M Brand with Empathy: Grace Lee Chen, Founder of Birdy Grey · Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact

0:07
Speaker 1: I have been in the weeds for a really long time,
0:09
Speaker 1: and it was time for me to prioritize personal things professionally.
0:15
Speaker 1: The business was booming. We hit one hundred million in revenue,
0:18
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I got us here. It
0:21
Speaker 1: is now time to pass off the reins to an
0:23
Speaker 1: experienced CEO to unlock the next piece of growth.
0:26
Speaker 2: One hundred million dollars in revenue. The business is booming,
0:31
Speaker 2: and that's when Grace Lee Chen decided to step back.
0:36
Speaker 1: Hi.
0:37
Speaker 2: Everyone, I'm Jessica Chen, Emmy Award winning journalist, founder of
0:40
Speaker 2: Soulcast Media, a communication training company, author of Smart Not Loud,
0:46
Speaker 2: How to Get Noticed at work for All the Right Reasons,
0:48
Speaker 2: and your new host for the second season of Leading
0:52
Speaker 2: by Example. We're kicking off this season right with a
0:55
Speaker 2: six time bridesmaid on a mission to make bridesmaid dresses
0:59
Speaker 2: more fordable and accessible. Grace co founder of Bertie Gray.
1:08
Speaker 2: While it's probable most founders would have doubled down at
1:11
Speaker 2: one hundred million, Grace did the opposite. She understood a
1:15
Speaker 2: crucial truth that many leaders learn too late. The skills
1:19
Speaker 2: that build a company aren't always the same ones needed
1:22
Speaker 2: to scale it. Knowing when to call in the experts,
1:26
Speaker 2: and having the wisdom to step aside became her smartest
1:29
Speaker 2: leadership move. What makes Grace's story especially compelling isn't just
1:34
Speaker 2: the success, it's her willingness to evolve with it. She
1:38
Speaker 2: spent years in the weeds building the business, and when
1:41
Speaker 2: the moment came, she chose to prioritize what mattered most
1:45
Speaker 2: by recognizing her own strengths and limitations. In this conversation,
1:50
Speaker 2: Grace opens up about how she made the leap to
1:52
Speaker 2: start a business, how she and her co founder Monica
1:56
Speaker 2: divided responsibilities from day one, what it really means to
2:00
Speaker 2: be in the weeds for years, and why stepping back
2:03
Speaker 2: from the CEO role wasn't giving up, it was growth.
2:08
Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Chen, and this is leading by example, Grace,
2:15
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us.
2:17
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
2:18
Speaker 2: So I want to just dive straight into your career
2:21
Speaker 2: because your career is super fascinating and I'm really excited
2:23
Speaker 2: for you to be here because I want to talk
2:25
Speaker 2: about your company, Bertie Gray. But let's back up a
2:28
Speaker 2: little bit. So I know you started your career in
2:31
Speaker 2: editorial brand marketing before launching Bertie Gray. So take us
2:35
Speaker 2: back to that time of when you were like, I
2:37
Speaker 2: want to start this company.
2:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I started out my career at in Style magazine.
2:43
Speaker 1: I had always loved fashion and beauty and lifestyle, and
2:46
Speaker 1: I always wanted to move to New York City, say
2:48
Speaker 1: right out of college. I got an internship aout in Style.
2:50
Speaker 1: I spent about seven and a half or eight years
2:52
Speaker 1: there as a fashion writer and reporter, and that's really
2:56
Speaker 1: where I learned the art of storytelling and understanding what
2:59
Speaker 1: makes something newsworthy, why someone should care about a product
3:02
Speaker 1: or a thing. From there, I went to go work
3:04
Speaker 1: for a couple fashion and beauty companies. Kate Spade recruited
3:08
Speaker 1: me to be a copywriter, and at the time, they
3:11
Speaker 1: really wanted to build up a lifestyle brand, and so
3:14
Speaker 1: at Kate Spade, which was such a lovely brand it
3:16
Speaker 1: still is today, it was one of the most creative
3:18
Speaker 1: places I've ever worked. I really learned the art of
3:21
Speaker 1: storytelling for a single brand. I moved to LA for
3:24
Speaker 1: personal reasons, and I worked for a couple beauty companies,
3:28
Speaker 1: and you know, that really prepared me for starting Bertie Gray.
3:31
Speaker 1: And that's kind of how I started in my background.
3:34
Speaker 2: You know, I find it so interesting because there's tons
3:36
Speaker 2: of people who are in fashion beauty, but not many
3:39
Speaker 2: of them go out and start their own business. I
3:41
Speaker 2: think it takes a certain kind of like courage. So
3:44
Speaker 2: what made you think you know what I want to
3:47
Speaker 2: do that? You know?
3:48
Speaker 1: It's funny. I never set out to be an entrepreneur.
3:50
Speaker 1: I'm being very honest here. My lawyer always says I'm
3:53
Speaker 1: the reluctant entrepreneur. But I found myself with a really
3:56
Speaker 1: great idea, which was making affordable Bridesmaistr is available online.
4:01
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of things happened at once.
4:04
Speaker 1: I was at a point in my career and you know,
4:06
Speaker 1: I started Bertie Gray when I was thirty six, and
4:08
Speaker 1: so that's relatively late for an entrepreneur. You hear a
4:11
Speaker 1: lot of stories of people starting companies in their twenties.
4:13
Speaker 1: I did it after having about fifteen years of work
4:15
Speaker 1: under my belt, and I think that it really was
4:18
Speaker 1: helpful in starting the company because I had a really
4:20
Speaker 1: strong foundation for brand storytelling, brand building, and a love
4:24
Speaker 1: for product in e commerce and in my background. I
4:27
Speaker 1: saw my career transform from print magazines, which RIP is
4:31
Speaker 1: kind of like a dying form to you know, online
4:34
Speaker 1: writing and then transform into e comms, social media and
4:37
Speaker 1: digital copywriting, and all of that really prepared me for
4:41
Speaker 1: Bertie Gray. I got the idea to start the company
4:43
Speaker 1: after having been a bridesmaid many times myself through the
4:47
Speaker 1: span of I want to say ten years, you know,
4:49
Speaker 1: in my early twenties and then up to my thirties,
4:52
Speaker 1: and I realized that there was just a lot of
4:54
Speaker 1: white space. No one was really doing affordable bridesmaid stresses
4:57
Speaker 1: online in a time where technology was really disrupting and
5:00
Speaker 1: innovating in all the other ways that we live our lives,
5:03
Speaker 1: whether it was shopping, even wedding planning. When it came
5:05
Speaker 1: to Bridesmay's dress shopping, there was just an opportunity, and
5:08
Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself, someone should do it. Someone
5:11
Speaker 1: should make affordable Bridesmay's dresses online that are in stock
5:15
Speaker 1: and ready to ship and really stress free. So that's
5:17
Speaker 1: kind of where I started. And it was at a
5:20
Speaker 1: time in the twenty tens, which was a golden age
5:24
Speaker 1: of girl bossing and starting your own company. And I
5:26
Speaker 1: saw a lot of people in my own life starting
5:29
Speaker 1: companies and they were doing really well, and so I thought, well,
5:31
Speaker 1: there's white space I have an idea, I should just
5:34
Speaker 1: go for it.
5:35
Speaker 2: So we talked about how you started your career in
5:38
Speaker 2: editorial fashion and then you started Bertie Gray. At any
5:42
Speaker 2: point during Bernie Gray, were you like, gosh, I kind
5:46
Speaker 2: of want to go back.
5:48
Speaker 1: You know, there are so many challenges that have come
5:52
Speaker 1: our way over the years, but never once has it
5:55
Speaker 1: crossed my mind that I want to go back. My
5:56
Speaker 1: co founder and I always joke were like, we can
5:59
Speaker 1: never work for any one again, Like, I don't think
6:01
Speaker 1: I'm going to be impointable. Like yeah, I feel like,
6:04
Speaker 1: once you kind of embark on this journey, it's so
6:07
Speaker 1: hard to go back.
6:08
Speaker 2: Why do you say that.
6:09
Speaker 1: I love being my own boss. I love the freedom
6:12
Speaker 1: it gives me. I love the creativity. The industries that
6:16
Speaker 1: I worked and were fantastic, But I don't think I
6:18
Speaker 1: ever want to work for anyone again.
6:20
Speaker 2: I feel like, once you're an entrepreneur, I agree, it's
6:22
Speaker 2: hard to go back because yes, it's the freedom, but
6:25
Speaker 2: it's also the creativity, right that you get. So it
6:28
Speaker 2: goes to the name Bertie Gray. How did you come
6:30
Speaker 2: up with that name, which, by the way.
6:32
Speaker 1: I really like, thank you. So Bertie's always been a
6:34
Speaker 1: nickname of mine. I was born the year of the Rooster,
6:37
Speaker 1: so I said, if I ever start a company, I
6:38
Speaker 1: want to incorporate Bertie in the name, and gray is
6:41
Speaker 1: my favorite color.
6:42
Speaker 2: That's so fun. I love that personal touch. Thinking back
6:46
Speaker 2: to your career and editorial and brand marketing, how do
6:49
Speaker 2: those experiences shape the way you run Bertie Gray today
6:53
Speaker 2: and even how you build the company from the ground up.
6:56
Speaker 2: I'm a creative at heart.
6:58
Speaker 1: I love creative, I love thinking about brand and before
7:01
Speaker 1: I started Bertie Gray, I would always tell myself if
7:03
Speaker 1: I ever started a brand, I want this in the name,
7:05
Speaker 1: or I want it to be shot this way, or
7:07
Speaker 1: I want people to feel this way when they experience
7:09
Speaker 1: the brand. And I think a lot of it is
7:11
Speaker 1: telling the right story and really sharing and letting the
7:14
Speaker 1: customer know why something is newsworthy or important. And I
7:18
Speaker 1: oversee our design team when it comes to our designs,
7:20
Speaker 1: I'm like, what makes this dress special. We're known for
7:23
Speaker 1: our convertible dresses, so some of our dresses can be
7:26
Speaker 1: converted to wear multiple ways because we know that people
7:28
Speaker 1: want optionality and they might want to wear the dress
7:31
Speaker 1: again in the future. Right we think about the bridesmaid
7:34
Speaker 1: experience when we're designing a product. So you know, we
7:37
Speaker 1: were the first to add pockets to our bridesmaid's dresses,
7:39
Speaker 1: knowing that when you're a brisemaid, you're standing out the altar.
7:41
Speaker 1: You can't carry a purse, but you need a place
7:43
Speaker 1: to put your lipstick on your phone. Even our shoes
7:45
Speaker 1: were designed with a lot of intent. We know that
7:48
Speaker 1: as a bridesmaid you're on your feet pretty much all day,
7:50
Speaker 1: and so we added memory foam padding to the footbed
7:54
Speaker 1: and everything is kind of like a lower, chunkier sort
7:57
Speaker 1: of heel. Even with our groomsmen suits. I don't know
7:59
Speaker 1: if I'm met this, but we launched groomsmen's suits earlier
8:02
Speaker 1: this year. They're made with a stretch waistband, knowing that
8:05
Speaker 1: groomsmen are expected to be the first on the dance floor.
8:08
Speaker 1: So we put a lot of intent into our product.
8:10
Speaker 1: And for me, it starts with what makes something special, newsworthy?
8:14
Speaker 1: Why should people care?
8:16
Speaker 2: I remember being a bridesmaid for some of my friend's wedding,
8:19
Speaker 2: and you know, first of all, it's an honor right
8:20
Speaker 2: when a friend ask you, and then you're like, okay,
8:23
Speaker 2: now I have to get a bride's and maid dress.
8:24
Speaker 2: And I remember for one of my friends's wedding we
8:26
Speaker 2: went to David's Bridle. I guess they had bridesmaid's dresses
8:29
Speaker 2: there and you know, try it on. But I think
8:31
Speaker 2: what's amazing WT. Berdie Gray is it's so seamless. It's
8:34
Speaker 2: easy for the bride'smaids. Right, Like, what were some of
8:36
Speaker 2: the things that went through your mind of making sure
8:38
Speaker 2: it was a good customer experience.
8:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean at the time, and things
8:43
Speaker 1: have changed a lot now, but at the time, bridesmaid's
8:46
Speaker 1: dresses were still very much a brick and mortar shopping experience.
8:50
Speaker 1: Dresses were expensive. You had to go into store commit
8:54
Speaker 1: to buy a dress. Everything was made to order. It
8:56
Speaker 1: took like twelve weeks to arrive, and then you had
8:58
Speaker 1: to sign a contract saying that you promise not to
9:00
Speaker 1: return or exchange it. It was just such an antiquated
9:03
Speaker 1: experience in an Amazon world where people expected their packages
9:06
Speaker 1: to arrive in a day or two. And so for me,
9:09
Speaker 1: I wanted to make the dress affordable. When we first launched,
9:12
Speaker 1: all of our dresses were ninety nine dollars and they
9:15
Speaker 1: have been up until last year. We broke price which
9:17
Speaker 1: was absolutely the right thing to do. But for a
9:19
Speaker 1: very long time we were known as the ninety nine
9:21
Speaker 1: dollars dress brand, and I wanted to make sure that
9:25
Speaker 1: things shipped quickly. We have like a hybrid inventory model
9:28
Speaker 1: where half of our assortment is available to ship immediately
9:31
Speaker 1: and half is made to order. But you know, when
9:34
Speaker 1: we started, I was like quick shipping, easy seamless returns
9:37
Speaker 1: in exchanges, and a really delightful and easy shopping experience.
9:40
Speaker 1: And so I think a lot about the online product
9:43
Speaker 1: experience where brides can find exactly what they need, feel inspired,
9:47
Speaker 1: get their swatches, be on and off the site in
9:49
Speaker 1: five minutes, and save for the bridesmaid. The bridesmaid can
9:51
Speaker 1: come on our site, shop a color that the bride
9:54
Speaker 1: told her to get, and find exactly what she's looking
9:56
Speaker 1: for quickly.
9:57
Speaker 2: One of the things I always find so interesting because
9:59
Speaker 2: image many of our listeners, they might be entrepreneurs themselves,
10:02
Speaker 2: or aspiring entrepreneurs, or people who are just interested in
10:05
Speaker 2: learning about the business. Right, was there anything that perhaps
10:09
Speaker 2: surprised you about being an entrepreneur? And I'm sure as
10:13
Speaker 2: amazing as the brand is, was it always smooth sailing?
10:16
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, No, it's been such a journey. So
10:19
Speaker 1: we launched in twenty seventeen, so I've been at it
10:22
Speaker 1: for about eight years and I am so proud of
10:24
Speaker 1: what we've built. But anything that can go wrong will
10:28
Speaker 1: go wrong. And any entrepreneur out there will attest this.
10:32
Speaker 1: It's really hard. It's one thing to have a good idea,
10:35
Speaker 1: it's really difficult to execute. And in our first year,
10:38
Speaker 1: I remember it was just me. I had two assistants
10:41
Speaker 1: that I found on Craigslist. They were helping me pack
10:44
Speaker 1: in ship dresses, they were helping me answer customer service questions.
10:48
Speaker 1: It was really difficult. After our first year, I brought
10:51
Speaker 1: on my best friend and my co founder. Her name
10:53
Speaker 1: is Monica Ashauer. She's amazing and together we've built the business.
10:57
Speaker 1: But we've weathered so many things. COVID supply chain crisis
11:02
Speaker 1: this year. It's like the tear of crisis. So yeah,
11:05
Speaker 1: it's been really hard, but so rewarding. I think for
11:08
Speaker 1: any entrepreneur, it's just you have to put your head
11:11
Speaker 1: down and keep going.
11:12
Speaker 2: Have you had moments of like even self reflection, you
11:15
Speaker 2: know what I mean of like I need to let
11:17
Speaker 2: go for example, or trust others. Did any of that
11:20
Speaker 2: go through your mind.
11:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, We've had different stages, right, But I
11:24
Speaker 1: think one really important thing for me was being able
11:28
Speaker 1: to delegate and being able to let go. I feel
11:30
Speaker 1: like in the early days it was really difficult for
11:32
Speaker 1: me to delegate and let go because the brand was
11:35
Speaker 1: something that I created in my head and willed into life, right,
11:39
Speaker 1: and so letting go of the reins of social media
11:42
Speaker 1: or brand marketing was really hard. But I'm so glad
11:44
Speaker 1: I did. And we now have almost eighty people on
11:48
Speaker 1: our team and everyone is an expert. And some of
11:51
Speaker 1: the best advice I got was that founders need to
11:54
Speaker 1: learn how to get out of their own way and
11:56
Speaker 1: make space for bringing in the experts, right, And so
11:59
Speaker 1: for me, I always fel like I need to get
12:00
Speaker 1: out of their way. I need to let the team
12:02
Speaker 1: do their thing, And I think it's been kind of
12:03
Speaker 1: game changing for us.
12:05
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, I know you transitioned to a new
12:07
Speaker 2: role recently. You're now chief creative officer. Tell me the
12:11
Speaker 2: behind the scenes of like what made you feel ready
12:14
Speaker 2: to kind of switch roles in that sense.
12:16
Speaker 1: A lot of things happened at once. So on a
12:18
Speaker 1: personal level, when I started the company, I was single
12:22
Speaker 1: and over time I got married, had a baby, and
12:25
Speaker 1: the timing felt right for me. I have been in
12:28
Speaker 1: the weeds for a really long time, and I felt
12:30
Speaker 1: like it was time for me to really prioritize family
12:34
Speaker 1: planning and personal things professionally. The business was booming. We
12:39
Speaker 1: hit a really big milestone last year. We hit one
12:41
Speaker 1: hundred million in revenue, and I was like, okay, I
12:44
Speaker 1: got us here. It is now time to pass off
12:46
Speaker 1: the reins to an experience CEO to unlock the next
12:49
Speaker 1: phase of growth. And so all of that happened last
12:51
Speaker 1: year and it was truly the best decision I ever
12:54
Speaker 1: made for myself, my family, and the company.
12:56
Speaker 2: Did you pop champagne when you guys hit a one
12:58
Speaker 2: hundred million?
13:00
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, huge milestone. HAVE been daydreaming about this day
13:03
Speaker 1: for a long time and it was so amazing and
13:05
Speaker 1: so rewarding to see us get here.
13:08
Speaker 2: Was it difficult going from the CEO role to chief
13:11
Speaker 2: creative Officer?
13:12
Speaker 1: No, no, for me. You know, I kind of had
13:15
Speaker 1: to reflect after having a baby and really understanding what
13:18
Speaker 1: I wanted for my personal life. I was like, there's
13:21
Speaker 1: no way I don't want to be a part of
13:23
Speaker 1: the day to day business, But there are parts of
13:25
Speaker 1: the business where I wanted to lean in more, where
13:27
Speaker 1: I know that I add the most value, and I
13:29
Speaker 1: really wanted to let go of other parts of the business.
13:31
Speaker 1: So for me, that's creative and design. I love the
13:34
Speaker 1: creative process, I love product and I work very closely
13:38
Speaker 1: cross functionally with our merchandising and our brand marketing teams,
13:41
Speaker 1: and those are the parts of the business that I
13:43
Speaker 1: care about and I wanted to stay close to. But
13:45
Speaker 1: everything else I happily, happily let go to our CEO.
13:49
Speaker 1: And my co founder, Monica was the same way. You know,
13:51
Speaker 1: she has a small toddler at home. We had been
13:53
Speaker 1: in the weeds for so long, and she was like,
13:55
Speaker 1: I want to focus on strategy. I want to focus
13:57
Speaker 1: on growth. Everything else let's pass off to not only
14:00
Speaker 1: our CEO, but we over the years had built up
14:03
Speaker 1: our c suite, like our executive leadership bunch, and so
14:05
Speaker 1: we brought on a CFO, COO and a CTO and
14:08
Speaker 1: so we have a really good leadership team now and
14:11
Speaker 1: I feel like we worked for it. For a long time.
14:13
Speaker 1: It was just her and I just like building the
14:15
Speaker 1: business alone. But now we're in a place where we
14:17
Speaker 1: can have a great leadership team and it's been game changing.
14:20
Speaker 2: What was that moment of when you and Monica were like,
14:23
Speaker 2: we do need to transition, Like what was kind of
14:25
Speaker 2: going through both of your heads. I know you mentioned personal,
14:27
Speaker 2: like your personal reasons, but was there something else?
14:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we were both burned out. One day.
14:32
Speaker 1: She was just like, I'm really burned out and I
14:34
Speaker 1: feel like the company would benefit from executive leadership. And
14:38
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I feel the same way,
14:40
Speaker 1: And luckily the timing worked out. If she was feeling
14:43
Speaker 1: that way and I wasn't, I feel like there would
14:45
Speaker 1: have been a misalignment. But it was just at the
14:48
Speaker 1: time that I was pregnant, so I was like, Okay,
14:50
Speaker 1: let me see how I feel after I get back
14:51
Speaker 1: from Eternity leave, and it was so clear, Like my
14:55
Speaker 1: first day back at work, I was like, you know what,
14:57
Speaker 1: I think we're ready for CEO. I also thought about
15:00
Speaker 1: my own personal bandwidth. I used to be on calls,
15:03
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, eight thirty or nine am, thirty minute
15:06
Speaker 1: back to back calls until about three or four and
15:08
Speaker 1: then the real work started at three or four PM
15:10
Speaker 1: and went into the evening. Luckily, my husband is also
15:13
Speaker 1: a workhorse, and so we're both just working really hard.
15:16
Speaker 1: But that isn't sustainable when you have a baby. And
15:19
Speaker 1: I feel like I am in such a position of
15:22
Speaker 1: privilege to be able to decide how I want to
15:25
Speaker 1: work and like how I want to be involved in
15:26
Speaker 1: the company.
15:26
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just imagining you and your husband will
15:29
Speaker 2: sitting on the couch whether you're just four hoppyops.
15:32
Speaker 1: You know, Chloe loves grabbing our laptops and pretendingly like
15:35
Speaker 1: she's working, and I'm like, oh my god, she's like
15:37
Speaker 1: a little corporate girly in the making.
15:39
Speaker 2: Chloe, your daughter just like her, loves watching you and
15:42
Speaker 2: daddy work.
15:42
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:44
Speaker 2: Actually, that's so interesting because you do have a daughter,
15:46
Speaker 2: and you know, Bertie Gray to me when I see them,
15:48
Speaker 2: I had such a girly brand. Yea, right, So when
15:50
Speaker 2: you think about your daughter, like, how does it kind
15:52
Speaker 2: of like come together in your mind?
15:54
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I love being a girl mom.
15:56
Speaker 1: She's the best I want to leave by example. I
15:59
Speaker 1: want to show her that I'm mom. I want to
16:00
Speaker 1: show her that I've built a business, and I want
16:02
Speaker 1: her to see what she could maybe do one day,
16:04
Speaker 1: whatever profession she decides to go into but I think
16:07
Speaker 1: that creating an example for her as a mother who
16:10
Speaker 1: works is important. It's always been important for me. My
16:12
Speaker 1: mom was a working mom, and you know that's influenced
16:15
Speaker 1: how I view the world in a big way too.
16:16
Speaker 2: I love it. We'll be back with more Leading by
16:20
Speaker 2: Example after a quake break. So some of the other
16:36
Speaker 2: things that I wanted to talk about is more about leadership,
16:39
Speaker 2: because this is what the podcast is, Leading by Example, Right.
16:42
Speaker 2: So when you think about the word leadership, it's always
16:44
Speaker 2: funny because when I think about it, I feel like,
16:47
Speaker 2: certainly there are people out there who are natural born leaders.
16:49
Speaker 2: You know, they come out and they know how to
16:51
Speaker 2: like command the attention of people. The way they speak
16:54
Speaker 2: is also amazing. Do you feel like leadership for you
16:57
Speaker 2: is something that you were born with or you learned
16:59
Speaker 2: along the way.
17:00
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Like I said, my lawyer calls me
17:03
Speaker 1: the reluctant entrepreneur. I've never taken a leadership class or
17:06
Speaker 1: a business class in my life, and that's no knock
17:08
Speaker 1: on me. I'm so proud of what I've built. But
17:10
Speaker 1: I know where my strengths are, and I know areas
17:12
Speaker 1: that I'm not good at and I feel like I've
17:14
Speaker 1: been able to bring on a team to make up
17:17
Speaker 1: for it. So my co founder is the opposite of me.
17:19
Speaker 1: I am a creative, she is strategy. She's an operational
17:22
Speaker 1: power horse, and we're kind of yin and yang in
17:24
Speaker 1: that way. But for me, I feel like I've built
17:27
Speaker 1: a successful business by leaning into my own core competencies,
17:31
Speaker 1: which is building brand, obsessing over product, making sure that
17:35
Speaker 1: visually we are consistent, and our voice and tone is
17:38
Speaker 1: consistent across every single touch point, whether it's social media,
17:41
Speaker 1: our on site experience, what our transactional emails look like,
17:45
Speaker 1: what our email marketing looks like. And I feel like
17:47
Speaker 1: that's where I've been able to create the most value
17:50
Speaker 1: for the company.
17:51
Speaker 2: I find that super interesting because one of the things
17:53
Speaker 2: that I often always talk about when I do a
17:54
Speaker 2: lot of my workshops and teaching is having people understand,
17:57
Speaker 2: like what their differentiating factor is, what's the value that
18:00
Speaker 2: they can bring. And you were able to, I guess
18:03
Speaker 2: quickly identify what that it was for you. But how
18:05
Speaker 2: did you come to that? Is it just more like instinctual?
18:07
Speaker 2: You're like, I know that this is my strength versus
18:10
Speaker 2: I know that this isn't my strength, Like, how did
18:12
Speaker 2: you figure that out?
18:13
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I was running the company for a year
18:16
Speaker 1: and on the front end, we had a really precious brand,
18:18
Speaker 1: a really cute social media presence, We had great product.
18:21
Speaker 1: I built the website on Shopify, so I was able
18:23
Speaker 1: to do everything myself in a super scrappy way. I
18:26
Speaker 1: sourced product myself. I learned how to be a merchandiser,
18:30
Speaker 1: even though I've never done merchandising in my life. So
18:32
Speaker 1: on the front end, we had a great brand. We
18:34
Speaker 1: drove two million in revenue in our first year, but
18:37
Speaker 1: on the back end everything was a hot mess. My
18:39
Speaker 1: operations are not in a good place. I'm ham cutting
18:42
Speaker 1: up dresses to send swatches to my customer. Our finances
18:45
Speaker 1: were crazy. You know, We've been profitable since our first year,
18:48
Speaker 1: but it was like a hot mess. And so when
18:50
Speaker 1: I approached my co founder, Monica, I was looking for
18:52
Speaker 1: someone to partner with who could do all the things
18:55
Speaker 1: that I couldn't do. And so I feel like it's
18:57
Speaker 1: important to understand your core confidencies where you spike, but
19:01
Speaker 1: also really acknowledge where you don't and find people who
19:04
Speaker 1: can kind of fill those gaps.
19:06
Speaker 2: So you and Monca were friends already or did you
19:08
Speaker 2: guys get introduced?
19:09
Speaker 1: We were best friends. I moved to New York when
19:11
Speaker 1: I was twenty one. I met her a couple of
19:13
Speaker 1: years later, and we were besties. We ran around the city,
19:16
Speaker 1: swinging off chandeliers, going on trips, doing all the things.
19:19
Speaker 1: And her background is in strategy consulting, so she was
19:22
Speaker 1: at McKenzie for a long time. She worked in house
19:25
Speaker 1: for a couple apparel brands, and I poached her, but
19:28
Speaker 1: I knew that I needed to bring someone on who
19:31
Speaker 1: had that complimentary skill set, and it's really helped us
19:34
Speaker 1: in building the company. We don't have any redundancies, and
19:37
Speaker 1: so I feel like you hear a lot of stories
19:39
Speaker 1: of founders who are friends starting companies where there's overlap
19:42
Speaker 1: and almost competition. For us, there was none of that.
19:44
Speaker 1: It was kind of like divide and conquer from day one.
19:47
Speaker 2: How did you make it so clear in that sense,
19:49
Speaker 2: because number one, it's already really scary to go into
19:52
Speaker 2: a business with your best friend. Yeah, right, But then
19:54
Speaker 2: how did you make that distinction between Okay, I'm going
19:56
Speaker 2: to be in charge of this and you're going to
19:58
Speaker 2: be in charge of that.
19:58
Speaker 1: We did it upfront, and the way that even our
20:01
Speaker 1: org chart was presented was front of house, and I
20:04
Speaker 1: was in charge of front of house, so that was creative, brand, marketing,
20:08
Speaker 1: customer service, e comm and design. And Mom was back
20:12
Speaker 1: of house strategy, merchandising and planning, HR finance operations, which
20:17
Speaker 1: is the entire backbone of the business. She was sort
20:20
Speaker 1: of in charge of and at the end of the day,
20:21
Speaker 1: I was in charge of getting the customers to the site,
20:24
Speaker 1: showing them a good time and making sure that they
20:26
Speaker 1: brought product. And on the back end, she was enabling
20:29
Speaker 1: all of that, making sure our supply chain was in order,
20:32
Speaker 1: orders were being fulfilled, you know, our employees were getting
20:35
Speaker 1: hired and paid properly. All of the back end stuff
20:37
Speaker 1: that I just couldn't do, she took on, and she
20:40
Speaker 1: did it with so much grace and so much excellence.
20:42
Speaker 2: I love that. So you mentioned this already, but recently
20:45
Speaker 2: Bertie Gray expanded into groomsman suits. What made you decide
20:50
Speaker 2: that's actually the next step? Was there like a demand
20:52
Speaker 2: for it? Do people ask for it? And how's that
20:54
Speaker 2: been going?
20:55
Speaker 1: You know, it happened quite organically. Some advice that I
20:58
Speaker 1: got really early on in my journey was to focus
21:00
Speaker 1: on your core product, your hero products, the products that
21:03
Speaker 1: are going to make you famous, right. Focus on it,
21:05
Speaker 1: build it, get famous for it. And so for us
21:07
Speaker 1: that was bridesmaids dresses. We didn't even enter into any
21:10
Speaker 1: other categories until maybe three or four years in, and
21:13
Speaker 1: that's where we started to dabble with things like groomsmen
21:16
Speaker 1: accessories that were dye to match our dresses because customers
21:19
Speaker 1: ask for it ropes and pj's that were great for
21:21
Speaker 1: gifting jewelry to complete the look and to gift on
21:24
Speaker 1: the wedding day shoes. We started dabbling into other categories,
21:28
Speaker 1: and then groomsmen's suits just felt like the natural sort
21:32
Speaker 1: of opportunity because for every bridesmaid there is a grooms
21:35
Speaker 1: in wearing a suit. In the early days, we tested
21:38
Speaker 1: into the category by drop shipping through a partner and
21:41
Speaker 1: we saw a huge opportunity for it. So once we
21:44
Speaker 1: decided that that was going to be one of our
21:45
Speaker 1: growth lovers in terms of category expansion, we hired a team,
21:50
Speaker 1: we designed our suits. It took about a year of
21:53
Speaker 1: R and D, and we launched the brand this past
21:55
Speaker 1: spring and it's been going really well. It's growing very quickly.
21:59
Speaker 2: So then this makes me think of the word scaling.
22:01
Speaker 2: So what does scaling for Brittie Gray look like.
22:04
Speaker 1: Our vision is the same from day one, and that's
22:07
Speaker 1: to be the number one destination for all of your
22:09
Speaker 1: wedding party needs, whether that is rightsmaid stresses, groomsman suits,
22:14
Speaker 1: gifts and accessories, or even one day wedding gowns, which
22:17
Speaker 1: is a category I really want to go into. It's
22:19
Speaker 1: much easier said than done. That that is the overall vision.
22:23
Speaker 1: So as we wrap up here, this podcast is called
22:26
Speaker 1: leading by Example. So in your words, you know someone
22:29
Speaker 1: who's built the brand on empathy, creativity. What do those
22:33
Speaker 1: words mean to you? Oh? Man, I feel like empathy
22:37
Speaker 1: is something that is so critical for any leader in
22:41
Speaker 1: the success of a company. It's not just about being
22:44
Speaker 1: able to understand how your employees are feeling, or your
22:46
Speaker 1: customer is feeling, or in your personal life, your family
22:49
Speaker 1: or your friends. It's really being able to put yourself
22:51
Speaker 1: in their shoes. And I think it's so important for
22:56
Speaker 1: leading understanding how your customers feel, designing policies or a
22:59
Speaker 1: brand experience around how they would want to experience a brand.
23:02
Speaker 1: And so it's been so so helpful with employees. It's
23:06
Speaker 1: creating a culture where they feel safe and where there's collaboration.
23:09
Speaker 1: I feel like without empathy, you won't have the same
23:12
Speaker 1: kind of collaboration and space for voicing different opinions or
23:16
Speaker 1: you know, healthy debates. So I think it's super important
23:20
Speaker 1: when it comes to creativity. I feel like for me,
23:24
Speaker 1: creativity means freedom, like sky is the limit to be
23:28
Speaker 1: able to take an idea and bring it to life
23:31
Speaker 1: in the form of a physical product or a company
23:33
Speaker 1: or a brand and monetize it is so so powerful.
23:36
Speaker 2: And actually I have a follow up question to that,
23:38
Speaker 2: because I think sometimes people are afraid of creativity. They're
23:42
Speaker 2: afraid of will people like it, Is this a good idea?
23:45
Speaker 2: How does somebody get over that mental block?
23:48
Speaker 1: I think it's so important to really believe in what
23:52
Speaker 1: you're doing, so really believing that you're solving a problem
23:56
Speaker 1: and that there's going to be a great product market
23:59
Speaker 1: for how you're solving that problem. Right. So for me,
24:03
Speaker 1: over the years, I've actually had different business ideas and
24:06
Speaker 1: I've shared them with friends, and not all of them hit.
24:10
Speaker 1: I think at one point I wanted to do an
24:11
Speaker 1: eyelash brand, or I wanted to do like a mini
24:14
Speaker 1: dessert bakery. When I told friends about Bertie Gray about
24:18
Speaker 1: offering affordable bricemaise dresses online across the board, they all said,
24:23
Speaker 1: this is a great idea, you should do it. So
24:25
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is really solve a
24:27
Speaker 1: problem and share it with people you trust to get feedback.
24:31
Speaker 1: I think feedback is so important. I feel like Bertie
24:34
Speaker 1: Gray really just started with an idea. And it's true
24:36
Speaker 1: what they say. Your thoughts become words, your words become action,
24:41
Speaker 1: and your actions become reality. Right when I first started,
24:43
Speaker 1: it was just a thought in my head. Then I
24:45
Speaker 1: started sharing it with friends. Then they kind of hold
24:48
Speaker 1: you accountable. They check in with you and they say, oh,
24:50
Speaker 1: how's that business idea going? And so I felt like
24:52
Speaker 1: I had to put together a deck and like maybe
24:54
Speaker 1: build a little shopify storefront. And then from there, eight
24:58
Speaker 1: years later, you know, I built a real brand and
25:00
Speaker 1: a real company. So I'm proud of that and you
25:03
Speaker 1: definitely should be. And I imagining you know, you're like, oh,
25:05
Speaker 1: I'm going to see this friend. They're going to ask
25:06
Speaker 1: me how the companies do it. I better have a
25:08
Speaker 1: good answer. It's totally like the Asian girl in me,
25:10
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to like be accountable for what
25:13
Speaker 1: I just said.
25:13
Speaker 2: So, yeah, this is more of a fun one. But
25:16
Speaker 2: you know, you're in the wedding industry, which you know,
25:18
Speaker 2: I'm not in the industry, but I find it very
25:19
Speaker 2: fun and very fascinating. What's something interesting about this industry
25:23
Speaker 2: that you've like learned along the way. It is such
25:25
Speaker 2: a wonderful industry to be in. Planning a wedding is
25:29
Speaker 2: for many of our customer's the most important day of
25:32
Speaker 2: their life, and so it's delightful and scary, like we
25:35
Speaker 2: can't let our customers down. We have to deliver the
25:37
Speaker 2: product on time. You know, during the supply chain crisis,
25:40
Speaker 2: it was so stressful because we either make their weddings
25:42
Speaker 2: or we don't, and that was a scary part. But overall,
25:46
Speaker 2: it's so rewarding to be a part of someone's special day.
25:50
Speaker 2: The most rewarding thing for me is when they come
25:52
Speaker 2: back and share their real wedding photos with us to
25:54
Speaker 2: post on Instagram or social to see it come together.
25:57
Speaker 2: Full circles really been lovely and we get so much
26:01
Speaker 2: feedback from our customers, and I think that's what's really special. Yeah,
26:04
Speaker 2: and I think that connection with your customers really shows
26:08
Speaker 2: how much Berdie Gray has become part of their weddings,
26:11
Speaker 2: and I'm just curious seeing those moments come full circle.
26:15
Speaker 2: It must feel incredible as a founder.
26:17
Speaker 1: Most of our customers don't know this, but I always
26:20
Speaker 1: go through our Instagram feed to see what photos were
26:22
Speaker 1: tagged in, and I'm like, I can't believe our customers
26:25
Speaker 1: allow us to be a part of their special day.
26:27
Speaker 1: And I'm really proud of.
26:27
Speaker 2: That, which, by the way, I think it's amazing. It
26:29
Speaker 2: keeps you close to your customers. Yes, right, And you
26:33
Speaker 2: mentioned about customer feedback. Why has that been so important
26:36
Speaker 2: to you in terms of building the brand and making
26:38
Speaker 2: sure that you are again really close to them.
26:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh. The customer feedback loop is everything.
26:43
Speaker 1: Since day one, we've been asking our customers for what
26:47
Speaker 1: they want. So even some of our best selling colors
26:50
Speaker 1: today like Sage Green or Dusty Blue, were because customers
26:54
Speaker 1: were requesting those colors. And so over the years, we
26:56
Speaker 1: used to put Instagram polls on social media and we
26:59
Speaker 1: would have people vote, so you get that feedback not
27:02
Speaker 1: in a matter of days, but in a matter of hours.
27:04
Speaker 1: You can kind of get a pulse for what your
27:05
Speaker 1: customer wants. When we started to expand into other categories,
27:09
Speaker 1: we asked our customers on social if it was something
27:12
Speaker 1: that they even wanted, and so we get tons of
27:13
Speaker 1: feedback on social. We now have a whole customer insights
27:17
Speaker 1: vertical on our strategy team. All they do is customer
27:20
Speaker 1: surveying and research. Our entire leadership team. We pour over
27:24
Speaker 1: our NPS feedback and all of the detractor comments get
27:28
Speaker 1: sent out in a report and we're reading why our
27:30
Speaker 1: customers are unhappy, and we're also reading why our customers
27:32
Speaker 1: are happy. So that customer feedback loop just really informs
27:36
Speaker 1: every single decision, whether it's product escortment, how we show
27:41
Speaker 1: up as a brand, or even some of our policies.
27:43
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you say that, because I feel like
27:45
Speaker 2: you do. Hear a lot of CEOs, for example, say like,
27:48
Speaker 2: of course we care about our customers, but they don't
27:50
Speaker 2: actually integrate it into their business.
27:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. I completely agree with that. We live, die, and
27:55
Speaker 1: breathe by customer feedback. You don't have a brand if
27:58
Speaker 1: you don't have a customer base. The average woman is
28:01
Speaker 1: a bridesmaid three times, and then she's also bright herself
28:04
Speaker 1: and so, you know, really building that relationship with the
28:07
Speaker 1: customer and showing her an excellent sort of experience the
28:10
Speaker 1: first time around is so important.
28:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, as somebody who would let's say, be
28:15
Speaker 2: a customer at Bertie Gray, you know, just hearing your
28:17
Speaker 2: point of view of this in terms of customer feedback,
28:19
Speaker 2: the one word that I keep coming back to is care.
28:22
Speaker 2: Like you care. Yeah, And I think that makes the
28:25
Speaker 2: biggest difference in a brand.
28:26
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, not only do we care, we obsess. I
28:29
Speaker 1: don't think people realize how hard we obsess over certain things.
28:32
Speaker 1: You guys would be surprised. And I sometimes laugh with
28:35
Speaker 1: my team about it, like we debate things hard. Everything
28:38
Speaker 1: has to have an intent and a purpose in our lineup,
28:40
Speaker 1: whether it's a style or a color. So we definitely
28:43
Speaker 1: obsess over what the customer wants for sure.
28:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. You don't just care, you obsessed. Yeah. Well, Grace,
28:50
Speaker 2: I'm so honored that you are here and you're having
28:53
Speaker 2: this conversation with us. I feel like I've learned so
28:55
Speaker 2: much just getting to know you and having this conversation,
28:58
Speaker 2: and I want to say thank you, Yeah.
29:00
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It's been so fun,
29:05
Speaker 1: what a.
29:05
Speaker 2: Great conversation with Grace. There's so much to unpack here,
29:08
Speaker 2: and I want to highlight three key insights that really
29:11
Speaker 2: stood out to me. The first one is all about
29:13
Speaker 2: clarity and focus, the second one about understanding what keeps
29:17
Speaker 2: you stuck, and the third is knowing when it's the
29:21
Speaker 2: next chapter. So the first one clarity and focus. When
29:25
Speaker 2: Grace started her company, she was very intentional about building
29:29
Speaker 2: a business where Bridesmay's dresses were going to be ninety
29:32
Speaker 2: nine dollars. I can only imagine that during this period
29:36
Speaker 2: of time, how easy it must have been to be
29:38
Speaker 2: distracted by all the other things that she could be
29:41
Speaker 2: doing as well, making accessories, making shoes, or anything related
29:45
Speaker 2: to the wedding industry. I'm sure they all sounded like
29:48
Speaker 2: a great idea, but for her, she was like, no,
29:52
Speaker 2: I'm clear and I'm focused on doing this one thing.
29:56
Speaker 2: So for you, whether you're wanting to start a business,
29:58
Speaker 2: or currently running a business, or even managing a team,
30:02
Speaker 2: think about the clarity in what you are trying to achieve.
30:06
Speaker 2: For example, if you feel like your team right now
30:10
Speaker 2: is bogged down by projects in all sorts of areas,
30:14
Speaker 2: can you, as a leader ask what are the must
30:17
Speaker 2: do projects that need to get done, or let's say
30:20
Speaker 2: you have a business or multiple products, can you do
30:24
Speaker 2: an audit and see what actually drives revenue and maybe
30:28
Speaker 2: doubling down on that. You know as a communications expert.
30:32
Speaker 2: Reminds me of one of the advice I always give
30:35
Speaker 2: my executives and the people I coach. It's when you're
30:38
Speaker 2: communicating something, always answer the question, what's the point I'm
30:43
Speaker 2: trying to make here? When it comes to leading others
30:46
Speaker 2: or managing a business, that question actually is just the
30:50
Speaker 2: same what am I trying.
30:53
Speaker 1: To achieve here?
30:54
Speaker 2: Clarity and focus comes from the top down, and I
30:57
Speaker 2: believe if you don't get clear on what drives the
30:59
Speaker 2: new how do you expect your team to know what
31:02
Speaker 2: to focus on too. The second key point that really
31:05
Speaker 2: stuck with me was this understanding what keeps you stuck.
31:11
Speaker 2: So Grace said something in our conversation which set the tone,
31:13
Speaker 2: and she said, I think knowing what you're good at
31:17
Speaker 2: and what you're not good at allows you to really
31:19
Speaker 2: find the people who can help you. Basically understanding your
31:23
Speaker 2: strength and weaknesses. You know, for Grace, she had a
31:27
Speaker 2: very clear understanding what she was good at. Brand design
31:30
Speaker 2: creatives she calls it, you know, the front end, anything
31:34
Speaker 2: that had to do with operations or the back end
31:36
Speaker 2: that was hard for her. She knew that, and she
31:39
Speaker 2: knew that if she stayed in it, it would keep
31:42
Speaker 2: her feeling stuck. So it's really thinking about being honest,
31:47
Speaker 2: understanding what keeps you stuck, and knowing when to ask
31:51
Speaker 2: for help. She didn't try to do it all, and
31:54
Speaker 2: I don't think we should either. The third takeaway knowing
31:58
Speaker 2: when's the next chapter? Her lawyer called her the reluctant entrepreneur.
32:04
Speaker 2: Yet she built a business that reached over one hundred
32:08
Speaker 2: million dollars in revenue, and she did it. What happened
32:12
Speaker 2: she decided to step aside. Crazy. You know, it makes
32:16
Speaker 2: me think about how much courage it takes to know
32:20
Speaker 2: when is the next chapter in your life, or should
32:23
Speaker 2: I say, in your career. And it's amazing because you
32:26
Speaker 2: hear someone reaching what seems like, you know, such a
32:29
Speaker 2: high pinnacle one hundred million dollars, and it almost feels like, well,
32:32
Speaker 2: the world is your oyster. You can do anything now.
32:35
Speaker 2: But for Grace, she was like, actually I do want
32:38
Speaker 2: to step back. And this was after her having a baby,
32:41
Speaker 2: and actually reminds me of when I was in the
32:44
Speaker 2: news industry myself and I left the industry pretty much
32:48
Speaker 2: immediately after I won an Emmy award, and I think
32:51
Speaker 2: it's the same thing, you know, for Grace, she realized
32:55
Speaker 2: that she was clear, she felt burned out. She wanted
32:58
Speaker 2: to get into this next chapter in her life where
33:00
Speaker 2: she felt like the business could only get better if
33:03
Speaker 2: she stepped aside. So I think here honesty is key.
33:07
Speaker 2: If you feel like you cannot do your best work,
33:10
Speaker 2: maybe it is time to flip to the next chapter.
33:12
Speaker 2: But it doesn't necessarily mean you have to let go completely.
33:16
Speaker 2: You know, Grace is now the chief creative officer. You know.
33:19
Speaker 2: For me, when I decided to step away from news,
33:22
Speaker 2: I didn't want one hundred percent leave myself. I actually
33:26
Speaker 2: asked myself the questions of what did I actually like
33:29
Speaker 2: about the job? What is something that I would want
33:31
Speaker 2: to bring to my next role. It always came back
33:34
Speaker 2: to storytelling, interviewing, you know, meeting new people. So actually
33:38
Speaker 2: I did that after I left the news industry. I
33:40
Speaker 2: kind of did it from like a freelance perspective, and
33:42
Speaker 2: I also did a little bit of public relations. But
33:44
Speaker 2: I think that's the question you have to ask yourself.
33:47
Speaker 2: Do you know when it's time to make that next change?
33:52
Speaker 2: Do you know when it's time to take that next leap?
33:56
Speaker 2: So here's some questions. Do you still enjoy the kind
33:59
Speaker 2: of work you do? What part of your jobs would
34:02
Speaker 2: you fight to keep even if everything else has changed?
34:05
Speaker 2: Does it feel right? Sometimes the biggest growth can happen
34:09
Speaker 2: when you know it's time to turn the page to
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Speaker 2: the next chapter. Thanks so much to Grace for joining us.
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Speaker 2: This was such a great conversation, and to all of
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Speaker 2: you listening. If you enjoyed this episode or have feedback
34:24
Speaker 2: on what you want to hear and guests you'd like
34:26
Speaker 2: to hear from, please rate and review, leading by example,
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Speaker 2: every review, every rating really does help us reach more
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Speaker 2: people and make the show the best it can be.
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Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Chen, the author of Smart Not Loud, How
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Speaker 2: to Get Noticed at Work for All the Right Reasons,
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Speaker 2: and the CEO of Soulcast Media, a communications training company.
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Speaker 2: For more information about me and what I do, head
34:48
Speaker 2: over to Solcastmedia dot com or add me on LinkedIn
34:52
Speaker 2: and Instagram. A huge thank you to our production team
34:55
Speaker 2: at Ruby Studio, especially Matt Stillo and Sierra Spreed will
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Speaker 2: be back back in two weeks with another episode of
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Speaker 2: reading by Example. See you then,