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He Built a Company While Hiding a Heart Condition · Zero Friction

• Ahmed Shahzad: you don't make healthcare your priority when you're in your twenties. It'll become your priority when you're in your fifties. And once my heart started getting stronger, and then the heart and the mind were both strong together, because it's so important that the two of those are in sync in order to be wildly successful and move forward to have an impact on people's lives. It's really interesting because AFib has such an impact in our society today. It's tough to diagnose, it's tough to treat. Consistently. And at the end of the day, it can have a catastrophic effect on your life. If you feel like you're alone and you're you're on your journey, you just got this diagnosis, which is a kick to the gut, there's people out there to help. I think we just need to eat, you know, reach out in a hand to everybody, make a difference. Hey there. I'm Terry Kucholuchis, founder of RevRX AI. We remove friction and architect revenue for med tech and consumer health. Practices. Welcome to Zero Friction. This is Terry Kuchaluches, and I have an exciting episode today. With me, I have Jim Cavaney. Jim is an author, an entrepreneur, and he's done a great job in the past of building a world-class high-performance educational team, which was bought out. From then, Jim went on to become an author and he started an organization called Unlimited Heart and Health and Wellness. Jim, great to have you today. Give us a little background on yourself as an entrepreneur and what led you to write a book and then get into the healthcare industry. Yeah, that's great. Terry, thank you very much for ⁓ for the opportunity to connect with you today too. Yeah. So the the long and short of it is, you know, throughout my entire life, I always felt like I wanted to build something, but I wasn't sure what that was going to be. And so I I dabbled in a variety of different things throughout my life. But most of my career was spent in health and biotech and pharmaceuticals, right? And I was a biology teacher by trade. So I went to college for biology, got certified to teach biology, got into corporate education. And then when I was into the corporate education field, I realized, hey, like I think I could do something better. So that's that's why I went out and I started my own learning and development company, which really tapped into the whole ⁓ concepts of not only understanding the the content that sh that's in there, but also understanding the behavioral and the psychological framework of people that are out selling, out connecting with individuals. And so Built the organization for about eight years, sold it to private equity in twenty twenty, not out of desperation, but more so more out out of an opportunity to say, Hey, I I need to do something with this because I I wanna I guess it was kind of the I wanna prove that what I built was valuable and that ⁓ people actually found found that what we did was was was good. I think that goes into the play. When anybody gets into the entrepreneurial framework, it's the imposter syndrome was like, Am I really doing this? Am I really making something that's worthwhile? But Along the journey of my entrepreneurial ⁓ experience, I also became a patient with atrial fibrillation. So at the very same time that I started my my business, I was diagnosed with proxysmal atrial fibrillation. And so that is a, you know, it's a it's a heart disease, ⁓ which at the time I was 38 years old. So of course I thought to myself, I'm 38, I'm invincible. I mean, this this is not gonna do much to me. And then I was completely wrong ⁓ with that with that. in interpretation of what that diagnosis was. And so as my business was growing rapidly, my cardiac health and everything else was deteriorating precipitously for probably for a ri a variety of reasons. One, the disease was progressive. Two, I was under significant lot ⁓ significant stress related to my business, but you know, all was all was well and good. But thankfully in in 2019, after a culmination of events between, you know, multiple cardiac ablations, cardio versions, and finally a pacemaker, In twenty eighteen, I I received my last cardio version in twenty nineteen. And I've I've been AFib free since. So that's awesome. So now that's ⁓ doing the quick math. That's about seven years I've been AFib free. But then I realized at that time I said, If boy, if I were to die tomorrow, I wouldn't have much to leave my family. So I'm gonna put put out the for sale sign on the business. And from that I was able to attract a significant amount of companies that came our way and said, Hey, why what you built is really cool. We want we want to bring you on board. And so We decided to move in that direction. We we sold the private equity in in twenty twenty. Well, congratulations. That sounds like a nice little thing to to do after you spent years and years building and what a great space to be into in terms of like high performance, educating sales professionals in a all kinds of falls falls in line with what we appreciate here at Zero Friction. Tell me about like you building a company while you were having these health issues. What was what was that like carrying both of those burdens? Like On your own. Yeah. So well well, one, you have to have an amazing team around you, right? And so I think the the the thing that we often forget, and this is in healthcare in general, the people we often forget, that are most important in your journey is your caregivers, right? And so actually my business partner and my caregiver just happened to be my wife. So she she worked with me day in and day out. Now, thankfully she she's an absolute genius when it comes to operations. So she was the running the operations of the business. And so that helped. precipitously for me because then that took off the you know the the day in and day out grind of making sure that everything was, you know, all the T's and I's and things were crossed. And it was more so just go out and build the business. Go out and connect. Do what you do best and talking to people, selling the vision and and sh leading them in the right direction of how to make a difference in and what they were trying to do. So that was exceptionally helpful. But the key thing for me when it came to myself, my own internal balance of the the business as well as my health was was making sure that my mind was strong. And so You know, I was never I was never well, I guess I'm I'm I'm a student of psychological performance, but I never was classically trained in understanding what do you have to say to yourself? How do you what what are the words? What ⁓ what is the performance of your of your own mind that you n is required in order to be successful? I didn't know what that was, so I was started to read ⁓ quite a bit. And then I realized like, gosh, I while my my heart is weak, I need to make sure that my mind and my body is strong. And so I made sure that I was thinking the right things. I'm a faithful person too. So I said my prayers every single day. But I wanted to make sure more importantly that I was I was in the right mindset, but also not ignorant to what was going on with my disease. And so as I was managing that, that really helped me get through a lot of what I was doing. And so what was great about it was then once my heart started getting stronger, and then the heart and the mind were both strong together. That's why ⁓ you'll see with my with my business unlimited heart and my podcast, A Figulous Life. There's a heart and a mind connected because it's so important that the two of those are in sync in order to be wildly successful and move forward to have an impact on people's lives. So that to me was probably the biggest, biggest driver for me of being able to get through what I was doing. That's pretty exciting from a standpoint of finding like how to optimize both of those things. And so it leads me to my next question. Having a fib now became a main purpose for you. And you've sort of built an infrastructure and a framework around all of What is your main purpose with the book and the organization? And what are you trying to deliver to the marketplace and and with other people like yourself? Yeah. Yeah, no, it was great. You know, what was interesting, the book, the book was not a part of anything that I ever would have considered. You know, my father was classically an amazing writer. And I I always said I got my dad's skills of writing because I was a pretty good writer myself, but I never thought I would write a book. But was interesting is but as my business was growing. You know, we got we were ranked in Inc. five thousand ⁓ three years in a row for being one of the fastest growing companies, privately held companies in the United States. And invariably once once you get added to a list, guess what? A lot of people start coming out to you saying, Hey, you should do this, you should do that, and telling you that you're a you know, you're a genius. And so I and I got a number of publishers that came out and said, Hey, you are a business genius, you should write your story. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm not really. I'm I'm just a hard worker. I had an idea. I drove, I did it, and we yes, we were successful, but my my story is not different than anybody else's that started small businesses and wildly successful, right? So I'm like, I don't see a differentiator there. Anyway, so literally years had gone by and they kept coming back every single year. You should write a book, you should write a book. And I said, no, no, no, no. And finally there was a ⁓ she's an now a friend of mine, ⁓ Natasha Walstras. And Natasha came to me and she was actually selling ⁓ to that I should write a book. And she and I just sat and we chatted for about an hour on the phone. And and she said, You know, Jim, I've come to the conclusion. She's I'm gonna be a salesperson that doesn't sell. She's like, I don't think you should write a book at all. You shouldn't write a book until you find what your absolute purpose is. And I said, Great, thank you. And then I'll I'll reach out to you, Natasha, when I'm ready. And so a year passed by again. And in that journey, as I mentioned, I was reading tons of books. And so I I read a story about a gentleman who was going through his own cancer treatment and everything else, and he ultimately died from his cancer. But the cool thing about what he did was he made sure that his experience was far different than what everybody else was experiencing. He made sure that his mind was consistently strong through his journey so that he he could go out on his own, right? And so then I thought to myself, holy cow, if I ripped his oncology story out of his book, I could put in my story of my cardiac journey and how I used my mind. And while it was not always perfect, it was, you know, learning. I was like, that's what the story's gotta be. And so so I wrote Unlimited Heart Health. how to how to transform your pain into purpose with the intention not to say, hey, look at me like I'm special, but more so, hey, look at me. I'm just a run-of-the-mill guy that started a business, got diagnosed, and figured it myself, I need to be on the better side of this. I'm not going to become a victim of my own circumstances. And so that's where I I framed the book with the intention that, you know, as as Steve Jobs always said, you never connect the dots moving forward. You only connect the dots in rears. And so I looked at my life from a child as a as a child all the way up to my diagnosis. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm a faithful person. So I I I believe you only go through things in order to make you stronger for those tougher challenges in life. And so when I was reflecting on all the challenges I went through as a child in in high school and college, and I realized when I was 38, I was prepared for my diagnosis and I needed to talk about that. So long story short, I did that in the book with the intention at the back side of the story was now I'm going out and building something different. I'm gonna build a business called unlimited heart health and wellness. Because guess what? Even though I was involved in healthcare and pharmaceutical and biotech, my care was great. I was treated here in New Hampshire, but there were significant gaps in my care. And for as educated as as I was, those gaps nearly killed me. And so that is what I said. There's like nobody deserves to have those gaps. We need to fill them. How do we fill them? We fill them with lifestyle modification, behavioral modification, those types of things. And so that was the premise and the the the whole idea around building unlimited heart. You know, and it's it's really interesting because AFib has such an impact in our society today. It's you know, it's it's tough to diagnose, it's tough to treat consistently, whether it's through medication, whether it's through therapeutic procedures. I mean, there's all sorts of different, you know, and there's you know redoes and and having to do procedures over and over again. And it's it's one of those things that and at the end of the day it It it can have a catastrophic effect on your life from stroke and other implications as well. Tell me about like you're trying to create and connect with other patients that have AFib, and you're trying to help them take control of their lifestyle. And there's something that you had mentioned to me in our our previous discussions around one of my goals is to help others like myself create their own center of excellence around their health condition. Tell me how does How does unlimited heart do that? Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great, great question. You know, so when I I look at what we and I know that you've been historically involved in in biotech and everything else, and even just in general and healthcare, right? We we always hear like, ⁓ I'm gonna go be treated at this hospital. They're a center of excellence for this, and they're a center of excellence for that. And what was interesting, ⁓ you know, a few years ago, I was at a conference, a patient conference, and there was a physician that was sitting up there and he was talking and he said, you know, five years ago. If I posed it and he had a litany of questions that he'd asked everybody, five years ago, I'd asked people what was most important about longevity of life. And everybody said at that time, give me a lot of years. Give me 25, 30 years. Now, five years forward to when this guy asked the same question, the responses were different. The responses was I don't want twenty thirty years of a crappy lifestyle. I want 15 years of quality. And I want those 15 years to be so quality that I can thrive and feel like I'm growing. And if I ultimately expire 15 years as opposed to 30, then great. I did it my way and I didn't, I didn't wane on the system or wane on my family or whatever. And so I sat back and I thought to myself, holy cow, like everybody's looking for a fabulous life. Right. And so I said, but but if you have AFib, how do you manage that? So that's where I came up with the concept of a fibulous life, right? So that's why I talked to people, patients, caregivers, health. Healthcare providers all the time about this. And so what we do, and my my company, Unlimited Heart, is strategically connected as well in partnership with Nudge Health, which is a a a large size ⁓ lifestyle modification company that's been in existence for about five, six years now. And so what we do when we talk about people becoming their own centers of excellence, it is simply put, is we we talk to those individuals and we find out what is what is holding them back from being their best. And invariably what we find is You have to approach the behavioral and the mental side of that person first before you can attack what's happening from a lifestyle perspective. And this isn't our our discovery, because that discovery came back a long time ago there out of the University of Washington back in 208 2008 to 2013. They did significant studies on the ⁓ the connection between behavioral modification and lifestyle. And if you pair those two together, how much better the outcomes can be. And so that's what we do. So we pair a behavioral modification program with our lifestyle changes. And that's where we're seeing people go from maybe they don't think they're full of anxiety or depression, but when they start working with us, anxiety, depression scores precipitously go down. And when those scores down, guess what happens? Then their lifestyle modification improves because they're like, wait a minute, I got a reason to live here. I'm gonna go out for that walk today. I'm gonna go and hit the weights. I'm gonna eat a little bit better. I'm gonna see my grandkids. I'm gonna do all those things, right? And then then we become and we we build this beautiful cycle. of healthcare for those individuals, all of which can be done by themselves if they need to. Now we also know, and I'm not gonna paint a broad swath across across the United States, but people need help, right? And it it's not it's not that you're weak, it's not that you're whatever, but people need help to get through these things. And that's what we're doing is we're holding their hand as they themselves become independently healthy. You know, it's I I think there's a couple of things you said to me that resonate really well. One is is that, you know, When you feel out of control, that's where fear, that's where anxiety sorts of take over things sometimes. And you're actually putting people in a position to take control of their life of the things that they actually can control. They can control their diet, they can control their exercise, their motion, their movement, and they can build discipline around those things. Right. So those are things that like as a human being, like helps you sort of create a baseline foundation so that when the variables are getting thrown at you and the unknowns are coming at you, you always have a foundation to go back to. And, you know, whether it's a community, whether it's your own sort of self-grounding in this situation, I think all those things really matter. And you're just becoming a phenomenal enabler around all of those things. Yeah. And in a healthcare system that many times is unfortunately in our state of affairs, is is a broken system. You know, we are the most innovative healthcare community in the world in the in the US, you know, bringing innovation beyond any other geography in the universe. But how we deliver some of that innovation, how we deliver that care, can also be very challenged because we have payers and insurance companies, and it's just it's really not just a healthcare system. It's a healthcare system that's driven by capitalism. It's a healthcare system that's driven by what insurance companies will pay and not pay for. And I think that you're allowing people to take control of that part of their journey too, which part of that anxiety and getting health care and and not knowing what is how do you like, how are you going to pay for it? In today's world, even though you might have health insurance, you might have a nine or a $10,000 deductible. So every time you're going to the doctor, you're pulling your credit card out for $250 or $300 or $500. Where 20 years ago, you know, you didn't have a huge deductible, you didn't have a huge premium. And the world has changed on that. And so people are becoming consumers of their own health. And what you and Nudge are doing is creating another channel where people can actually buy into their own health their own way. And I just think that's just ⁓ an incredible way to support a community like AFID, because there it that is a community, by the way. It it is a It is a disease state that, you know, there's plenty of people out there. You can look in the news, you can look in the TV, you can pull it up on A on AI and you can see how big that implication is across our community. So yeah. Yeah, and it's it's so huge. And and right, I mean it's ⁓ I mean, by no means am I the flag bearer for this, right? And there's friends of mine who've been doing this for a lot longer than I have. So there's a a woman, Melanie True Hills, who founded stopafib.org. And she was actually pivotal next next week, so starting September first. September is known as AFib Awareness Month. And that was she went straight up to Capitol Hill in Washington, DC and said, this is a problem in the United States. And right now in the United States, we have, depending on the the sources you're looking at, we have anywhere between seven and ten million AFib patients. And that's just gonna go up by another four or five million in the next four years. It's a lot of people, right? And so so we just want to continue to raise awareness. And so between Melanie and all the whole bunch of other friends that I've met over along this journey, it's ⁓ we're we're coming together to say we need to scream a little bit louder because the impact has got to be done on a a large scale. How has industry, you know, supported these sort of ground, these ground roots kind of programs that are being built up? So talk to me about like pharma, talk to me about med device, talk to me about, you know. therapeutic devices and you know you as a community reaching out to them and helping tell that story too. Yeah. Yeah. No. So I mean I'd be lying if I said it was it was going swimmingly. You know, they the conversations that we have and we we've had wonderful conversations with a lot of companies and and we're still engaged. I can't share who we're we're working with right now, but there's a number of companies that say, hey, this this is viable and I think we need to do this because it's the right thing, right? Other companies are concerned, you know, I get I think rightfully so. Like, well, if you if you go and we make all these people healthy, then they're not going to need my prescriptions, right? And so there's there's that part of it. But there's also the other part of it is, well, yeah, well, maybe we're maybe would do that. But we also know, and there's by the way, this was done by a very large pharmaceutical company many, many years ago. They actually tracked lifestyle modification and adherence with patients. So those patients that actually went through a lifestyle program were more. consistently taking their medicine. So this far this pharmaceutical company actually saw like, holy cow, like not only do we introduce them to lifestyle changes and they did this, but their medications continue to be prescribed and consumed. And it wasn't, you know, so it was, it was a actually a positive thing. And so I think that's where we're coming, we're we're coming to a head, I think, pretty quickly. ⁓ and this is not a political statement, but this administration is really driving like, hey, we need to address like how what can we do ourselves to to lower the cost of care because it's re it's ridiculous, it's out of control. And people are always complaining, but okay, if you're going to complain about it, get into the arena, right? And that arena might just be yourself, might be on in in your own house. Right. And so so back to your original question is we're having really good conversations with industry. It does take a little bit longer than we we thought it would. ⁓ you know, one of my one of my things when I was diagnosed, because I I mean I don't know how many as I mentioned, I had all the ablations in the world. I took lots of different medicines, everything else. I'm like, I'm gonna go directly to those companies and I'm gonna say, hey, I'm a patient. I used your product. Now how do we do this together? Right. And so if I'm having those conversations, they're going well, but they're you know, they're going soft, but they're happening. You know, and I I do agree with you that the the administration's our current administration's take on healthcare in terms of proactive health, exercise, diet, getting back to basic things around. Having a healthcare system that's more preventative in nature than reactive is such a like for me like an eye-opening opportunity and awakening for this country to actually kind of take that step forward. You know, I would say that from a device perspective, you know, I do think that there are companies that have patient, you know, that actually do have patient days and they're very proud of the therapies that they offer and can create. And so, you know, if you're In my audience, I know there are people from Boston Scientific that will watch this. I know that there are people from J and J that will watch this. I know there are people from Abbott that will watch this. And they are very big in that EP community, which is designed to support and and treat a fib. And so I would say to you, like I'll I'll throw it out there, whatever I can do to support within my network in those organizations, I'll I'll be happy to support anything you're doing in that direction. Because having worked for two of those three. I can speak to only the fact that I know that they're they actually have days where they bring patients into the company. They talk about the therapies and they talk about whether it's quality of life or a life-saving situation. They really do care about that and and they are looking for different avenues to to find way to give back to the community or even promote how these therapies can make such a dramatic impact, you know, having a therapy versus Just a drug or a drug and a therapy can improve your life and your mind, by the way. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. And I will I would take you up on on that offer, right? And you're right. I mean, the if the conversations that we're having and and y there's no and I the big caveat here is there's no malicious intent by anybody, by the way. Sure. You know, just I just want to state that. But you know, when you when you look at the AFib guidelines. Specifically, there's literally three pillars in which they manage it. And you probably know this from your experience. You know, the first pillar and the number one and most concerning thing about eFib is stroke, right? So how can stroke be managed, right? And that could be managed by a variety of things, whether it's a you know left atrial appendage into closure or if it's medicine. Middle pillar is lifestyle modification. Like the second pillar is lifestyle modification, and the third pillar is rate and rhythm. And that's where all of your ablations come in, right? So Nobody right now is addressing the the middle pillar. And that's us. And that's what we're doing. And we we truly are. And there's a number of companies that are out doing things, but they're not doing what we are doing and not getting the results that we are getting because of our approach. And I also want to say, too, you know, from a from a reimbursement perspective, the our programs are fully reimbursed. Like CMS has been paying for our services for for years. So it's not a it's not a money issue at all. So it's not, you mean will will some people might have to pay cash, of course. But predominantly we are fully covered by Medicare and Medicaid. And so it's and it doesn't matter. And the great thing about addressing cardiometabolic disease is we do it as a a broad swath. So it doesn't have to be, you know, you know, unlimited heart and nudge have an indication to treat pancreatic cancer or atrial fibrillation. No, you don't, because we're treating the whole person. And so as long as you're treating the person and not the disease, invariably you are treating the disease because you're making the patient stronger. Right. So that that's the beautiful thing about what we're doing. Well, and you're making everything else more effective. At the end of the day. And that's really when you look at like something as tricky as AFib is to treat, because the failure rates on therapies can be really challenging. You know, with left atrial appendage and with, you know, blood thinning pharmaceuticals, I mean, the stroke you can definitely reduce the stroke impact significantly. But on the therapeutic side, the things that you're talking about, diet and exercise, mental wellness and all those things play right into how the therapy can actually be successful or not successful. And it I would think that that would just all tie into one big stream of let let's go not just do the therapy, but let's also make sure that we're doing the the lifestyle modification that's going to enhance everything as well. And that makes everything better, right? Yeah. I guess he everybody wants to be the most effective treatment out there. So it would make a lot of sense just to grab on to something that's right there. And by the way, the the fact that you said, Yeah, most of the challenges around getting adoption for therapies and things like that have been the financial part and not having the reimbursement. But you've got the whole money trail there too. So there's you know, you've got the the the carrot factor already built into the system where it's right there. It's there. Yeah. And and I think that's probably one of the biggest kind of bang your head on the wall situations we often have is like we we've solved those problems, right? And yet people are like, Yeah, we you know, well, we'll get there. What what what are we what are we waiting for? Like it's already it's already been done, right? So so yeah, so we're we're excited with the direction of the conversations because they're happening more frequently and more powerfully as well. It's just it just takes time and we have to be patient and I I'm I'm just motivated. I get up every single morning because and again, this is not a it's about me thing, but it's about us and what we're trying to do is to be a part of transformational, you know, ⁓ disease state modification would be would be so awesome. And then I could f officially retire. Knowing that your job is complete and your mission has been done. There you go. So what's next on the horizon for you and your partner nudge? And what where where do you go from here today? Like you, you know, what's the next step, the next level of what you want to achieve? Yeah. So I mean, well, we want to I mean, I'd love to say we want to touch a billion lives, right? Which who doesn't want to touch a billion lives? But we we want to be able to, and this will kind of carry off and pivot off to another area. The the I think it's a a blessing and a curse of what we can do. Right. So with lifestyle modification, there's so many different directions we can go. And so the challenge though is like which direction are we going? Like you don't you don't want to be like a cat, right? Following a laser, like, ⁓ let's go over here. Let's go over there. Right. So I I say that because, you know, right now we're having deep conversations with obviously healthcare and we're in we're embedding ourselves into clinics and hospitals and things across the country. So that is a is a great play. But in order to really, but that's that's getting the sick people. Right. That's getting the sick patients. But if you really want to impact healthcare, then you have to get in and start talking about prevention and and also, you know, primary prevention. And who who is that? Right. And so one of the other key things, and I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there's the large initiative going on right now across the country called rural healthcare transformation. And so we're heavily involved in that space as well. So we're in five different states that I live in New Hampshire, so we're working in New Hampshire as well, with the whole intention to say, how do we get to these areas where Healthcare is so disparate and we're not able to get the right thing. And and their life expectancy is is bad. And I'll I'll just put this in perspective. Dartmouth healthcare is all the way up in northern Lebanon, New Hampshire, right? The life expectancy in and around, I think one to two, three miles around Lebanon and Dartmouth is like 78 years old, which is pretty good. You go five miles out, 10 miles out, it drops down to 50. Like that's a problem. Like there's there's a 28 year gap between those people that just live six six more miles down the road. Than those that live right. So what what is that? How do we fill that? And so that's the gaps we're trying to fill. So when we when we go and we connect with all the states in the rural healthcare transformation, we're like, we can be your partner. We can help you to fill facilitate these changes and provide this ⁓ this input. Now, by the way, I I I was remiss in stating like, how do we do this? And we we have hundreds of employees across the country. We do this all virtually, by the way. So yes, we use AI, but we use AI to aggregate all of the data that comes in because we capture. daily data from all of our patients. So scales, we're we're in integrating continuous glucose glucose monitors right now. And then we're also integrating blood pressure monitors, things like that. So we are integrating all sorts of different healthcare devices so that we can track these patients on a on a on a daily basis. And so that's what we utilize our AI do. But everything is driven by people engagement. And so anybody that comes to our programs, they get a case manager, they get a they get a nutritionist, a dietitian, they get a psychologist, they also get a Coaches that are gonna help them through on their monthly ways. But more importantly, which I didn't know this a couple of years ago, I learned of this, but the number one determinant of health is loneliness. And if people feel like they are alone, then they lose their will to live. And so are these rural areas that way? Right. Is that one of the key areas that's that's bringing that that the that that discrepancy? And so how do we address that part? So the cool thing about what we do there is we offer classes so they can come into our nudge university and so they can attend a cooking class. virtually, right? They can c attend just a session on mindset training or whatever it is, right? We have a variety of classes. So the cool thing about that is though, you might have somebody from rural New Hampshire connecting with Miami, Florida. They've never met each other before, but now all of a sudden they're holding each other accountable. So that's the cool stuff is now you get, hey Susie, did you go do your 10,000 steps last week? ⁓ no, I didn't really do, you know, so that's that's the community that we are trying to build. And the closer we can make that healthcare community, ⁓ the better we're all going to be in the long run. That's awesome. So you've got lifestyle management. You have educational webinars and workshops. You've built a community and now you and then you also have performance coaching too. That's kind of your four pillars around your service offering. Okay. Yeah. Well, our our pillars are driven are are driven by lifestyle medicine. Right. So those are the key key pillars, right? And so the behavioral modification, lifestyle changes, sleep disorders, right? Avoid avoiding risky behaviors. Number two or number three, well, I don't know which number we're on. So, you know, and it's and and this is funny, is like I was listening to an electrophysiologist last week say, Listen, I I want people to avoid risky behaviors, but I also don't want people to feel like they're they've become boring. So like if you want a glass of wine, have a glass of wine, right? But have two glasses of water after that glass of wine, right? So it's kind of one of those weird things. But so we want to make sure that people are addressing those things and finding the right balance because you can. You can you can dabble, right? You can dabble and have some fun and then and then also more importantly. 85%, 90% of the time focus in on a healthy lifestyle. So how, you know, if I were a patient and I wanted to get connected, like how are you, is this sort of like a direct to consumer sort of process for you? Or are you actually going to healthcare systems and building programs and then people enroll through, you know, their acute care environment? Like what's sort of the the model for that? Yeah. I mean, so we we can do and we do address, you know, the onesie twosies, right? But that mo that model is exceptionally difficult because you're just grabbing one here, there, and everywhere. So we are attaching ourselves to the systems that exist, right? So that's why right right out of the gate, we're straight in with healthcare, because that makes the most sense. But as we're having success in that area, now all of a sudden we're getting large employers are coming to us and saying, Hey, my cost of healthcare is ridiculous. What can you do? And invariably, why is the cost of healthcare high? Well, because people are on GLP ones or something else, right? So it's shooting healthcare through the roof. Not that we're against GLP ones, but you also need to balance. So we're we're talking with employers. So that's the actu so when you say what's the next ⁓ things that are doing. So we're talking with employers. And invariably, you know, the insurance companies are telling us, get in with the large employers, show us some success there, then then we'll answer to our our customers. Right. So that's kind of what the the game we're playing a little bit there. And so we're having great conversations across that. And so I think that's that's really where we get more people involved is getting 10,000 employees on a plan or You know, trying to use it as opposed to one patient every day. So what is the the cost of treating a patient with AFib on an annual basis? Or what's the what's the economic implication of AFib to society? Not to the patient, but just, you know, loss of work, cost of therapy, just like what does it typically cost a company somebody has AFib with with a lifestyle change and without a lifestyle change? Yeah, well, so I'll just I'll put let me let me put it this way. And this was actually just released last week, by the way. So the American Heart Association just released new performance and quality metrics for the management of a fib. And in there, one of the key new performance metrics that they've said, and this is going to be eventually it'll be adopted, you know, down the road once more data comes out, is lifestyle modification. It's never was never included before. It's now included. So like how do we do that? And so I state that is because then I'm and I don't have it in front of me, so I might get my numbers a little off. But the annual cost for an AFib patient is about $65,000. That's that's an annual annual cost for an AFib patient. A run-of-the-mill patient without AFib, it's about $30,000. So there's a $36,000 increase if you have AFib. Now that's is just looking at some basic numbers. I know when I had my ablation and everything else, I mean my cost was probably closer to $100,000 on an annual basis. So it's significant. But what I can tell you. ⁓ I and we don't have specific numbers for AFib and the the impact of lifestyle, but I what I can tell you generally across the marketplaces that we've worked, and this by the way doesn't come from you know some lax data points. So we we're currently working with Corwell Health out of Michigan. They're one of our largest institutions. They're the largest healthcare provider in Michigan. And we've been working with them for years. And so what we did for them was this we actually treated, ⁓ gosh, well, it's actually a small number. It's 660 patients. Now, why is it 660 patients? We actually treated close to 3,000 patients, but with with Corewell Health. But they said, hey, we want to go to our patients that are also on our health care plan. So not only are they coming to our hospitals, but they're on our healthcare plan because we have we have better control over them. And so we we worked with them and so we we tracked what was the cost of services prior to going on to Nudge. And so we looked at 12 months of that. And then they went on to our Nudge program and they did that for 16 weeks, by the way, just 16 weeks. So that's four months. 16 weeks, and then they started tracking what was the cost of care for those patients post that what they found is is dramatic was we saw a thirty eight hundred dollar savings in in cost of health care on that twelve month span. Wow. So we were able to low that so do the math thirty eight hundred dollars times six hundred patients. That's a small number times that by six thousand sixty thousand six hundred thousand right those numbers are huge. Accelerates pretty quickly absolutely it does and so the impact is there but here's the here's the other thing, right? So we're lowering the cost of care. But because we're fully reimbursed, guess what happens? The hospital system also gets a stream of revenue coming in. So we're lowering the cost of care, making them better patients, getting the sicker patients in first, because now all of a sudden those patients that are that were once clogging up the arteries, no pun intended, are now better patients. So now the the the funnel of patients is able to run a little smoother in, right? So that it's a it's a win-win all around. It really is when you think about it. Because even when there are problems, they're not horrible problems. And so, you know, length of stays are shorter, the the algorithm of treatment is simpler and not as complex. And the outcomes are better for everybody. That's better for the patient, it's better for the payer, it's better for the provider because the patients are coming and they're leaving and everybody's kind of feeling better about it. So and then again, when you talk about just four thousand dollars per patient and you start multiplying that across multiple markets, that really starts playing a major implication. economically in our healthcare system because you know again, like when you talk about Medicare and Medicaid and private pay and all those types of things, it's really gotta be a dramatic impact on somebody's population for sure. Hun a hundred percent. And I I would love it for a day, you know, where we actually reverse the whole thing and we actually pay people to be healthy. Wouldn't that be great? I mean, you know, that'd be or at least a tax reduction. You know, ⁓ that'd be kind of a cool look a cool play. ⁓ but I won't get into fiscal policy at this point. No. It's it's nice to see the administration pushing and really kind of looking at that proactive care with Bobby Kennedy. And I think he's really been a real inspiration, not to be political either, but I think it's been a a really pleasant surprise to have somebody take such a a proactive look at healthcare and really try to present it that way. So any for go ahead. No, no, please go ahead. I was gonna say any other last closing words you might want to close with the the audience on? No, I mean, it's just just grateful really for to be a part of your platform. And just to I think the biggest thing that we want to get across is obviously we mentioned the the centers of excellence, but more importantly, is that nobody has to be alone. Right. If you feel like you're alone and you're you're on your journey, you just got this diagnosis, which is a kick to the gut, there's people out there to help. And we can do that. And not just us, but there's so many companies and so many people that are willing to help each other out. So I think we just need to eat, you know, reach out in a hand to everybody, make a difference. And then I think we could just generally see. A huge change in in healthcare and outcomes here in the United States. Well, good. Well, Jim, I have one last question for you. And it's a it's a question I I ask all my guests. And one day it's I'm I'm hoping to actually just make a full episode on just this one question. So current day, Jim has an opportunity to go back and visit twenty-two year old Jim or eighteen year old Jim. Whenever Jim was gonna make a right hand turn or a left hand turn in his life. And if you could offer earlier, younger Jim one piece of advice only, just one piece, whether it's personal, professional, financial, whatever it might be, what would that one piece of advice be? And you know, it's coming from a guy who's accomplished so much, by the way, over the over the span of a a short career. And you've been a successful entrepreneur, you've written a book, you have developed a a company with purpose and intent and mission. And so I think you'll have a pretty good perspective on this question. Yeah. Thank you. I, you know, I think simply put, I guess the the the two words would be compound interest. And I mean that in two in a number of ways, right? So compound interest from investment strategy, right? That's one thing. But compound interest when it comes to your health, you know, I when you when you when you were doing things in our 20s, we think we're invincible. We don't realize what the impact is going to have on your 30s. And the same thing for your 30s and 40s, right? It all builds up, right? And so it's like if we don't As as a friend of mine said to me the other day, is if we don't make healthcare your priority when you're in your twenties, it'll become your priority when you're in your fifties. And you don't want to be working on the negative side of things. You always want to be in control. And so that's why I I've got two young boys that are 17 and 18. And so I'm like, guys, whatever you invest in now, that is going to compound on top of it's it, right? So when we look at healthcare and what we can do, your decisions as a twenty year old will impact what you you do as a thirty year old. And the thirty will impact the forty. And so I probably would have, you know. I listen, I went to college. I made bad choices and I probably drank a little bit too much sometimes, but I think that would be the thing. I would I would just look at what you're doing now because it's going to impact where you're at, you know, 10, 20 years from down the road. Well, good. That's a great mic drop for Jim Cavaney, unlimited heart health and wellness. Thank you for being here today and sharing your story. Thank you, Terry. I appreciate you. Enjoy your day. So let's connect. Let's find where your revenue's getting stuck. Book a call at RevRXAI and build your revenue engine.