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How to Use Video to Accelerate Trust and Grow Sales · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  the real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
• 0:15
  can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:34
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
• 0:52
  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now.
• 0:58
  Visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:03
  Hey, Elisters, what's up?
• 1:10
  Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast.
• 1:13
  My name is Jeff Zimfer and I am your humble host.
• 1:17
  Before we get into this week's special guest, a few housekeeping announcements.
• 1:21
  If you haven't yet heard by now, I would like to know what the number one big pressing
• 1:27
  question is that you've got on your mind.
• 1:30
  It could be about marketing.
• 1:31
  It could be about social media.
• 1:33
  It could be about this business.
• 1:34
  It could be about anything, right?
• 1:37
  Here's what I am asking, offering, encouraging you to do.
• 1:42
  If you're listening on your mobile right now, you can simply minimize the podcast, player,
• 1:49
  go to your browser and type in askjfanything.com.
• 1:53
  Even better than that, you can just scroll to the podcast episode and look for the link
• 1:57
  to ask Jeff anything.
• 1:59
  Ask me anything and go there, tap on your screen and then simply do another tap and what's
• 2:07
  your big pressing question, what's your biggest challenge?
• 2:11
  What is it that you are trying to work through, break through, overcome, achieve or just
• 2:16
  get some more insights and help on this year?
• 2:19
  You can go there, askjfanything.com, link in the show notes, and leave your question.
• 2:24
  When and if I feature your question live on the air, which I've been doing almost every
• 2:29
  week for the past few episodes, first of all, you'll get your questions answered.
• 2:33
  I'll give you a shout out on the air.
• 2:35
  Secondly, no matter if I feature your question on the air or not, every question I get will
• 2:40
  be entered into a monthly drawing for which the winner will receive an amazing box of swag,
• 2:47
  cool stuff, gifts, t-shirts or t-shirt, I should say, other cool swag stuff, plus a free
• 2:55
  private one-on-one coaching call with me.
• 2:59
  Askjfanything.com or tap the link in the show notes.
• 3:01
  That's how you do that.
• 3:02
  Secondly, make sure you jump over to our private Facebook group where that is.
• 3:05
  You go to Facebook and type in Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 3:07
  Love to see you jump in there.
• 3:10
  Lastly, if you are like many other loan officers are right now, recognizing that refives
• 3:15
  are down, and purchase business is what's invogue and what to go after, but you are like
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  many other loan officers who are now chasing real estate agents and showing up with the
• 3:32
  same message and there's lots of noise, lots of loan officers going after agents bringing
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  no real value.
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  You need a system, a system derives above the noise, a system to actually get attention
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  and get response from real estate agents because without something, quote, of interest or
• 3:53
  value or use to the real estate agent, unfortunately, you're put in a box of sameness and the same
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  is lame.
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  That's right.
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  Same is lame.
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  So, how do you break out of that box?
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  You rise above the noise with a unique selling proposition, something unique and different
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  to capture their attention.
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  What is it?
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  It's education.
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  It's tools, resources, tips, strategies, and information that will help real estate agents
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  grow their business.
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  Break through and overcome the same challenges you're facing about.
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  How do I navigate this world of social media, digital marketing?
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  How do I get more listings and low inventory market?
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  How do I get my buyers offer accepted?
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  Imagine if you approached your real estate agents with solutions for that.
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  Would you get more conversations?
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  Would you get more meetings?
• 4:40
  Would you get referrals?
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  The answer is yes.
• 4:45
  How do you do that?
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  We provide for you the complete turnkey system and platform to do that.
• 4:50
  It's called my agent classes and what we do is lead with education by equipping and empowering
• 4:55
  you with every tool and resource you need to succeed in presenting this information
• 5:00
  to real estate agents, be it virtually over Zoom or in person.
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  I don't care if you've never presented before.
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  I don't care if you think, oh, I'm not an expert on this topic.
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  No worry.
• 5:11
  We've handled that for you with our trainer videos, with our transcripts, with our downloads,
• 5:15
  with our speaker notes, with our images to promote on social media to help you get agents
• 5:20
  to attend your classes and follow our proven system and process for converting attendees
• 5:26
  to referral partners.
• 5:29
  Want to learn more?
• 5:30
  Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro, link in the show notes as well.
• 5:34
  Check out the brief video.
• 5:35
  We've put up there and see if that's for you.
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  All right.
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  So let's transition now into my guest this week is Darren Dawson, the co-founder and president
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  of Bombom.
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  Now many of you probably already know of Bombom.
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  Some of you guys and gals, I'm sure are using it.
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  I've been a Bombom user for a long time.
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  I'm talking like 10 years, right?
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  And what I love about this conversation that Darren and I have is you guys may have been
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  feeling it that there is what we focus on here is, you know, they've got Bombom put
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  out two books.
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  One is called Rehumanize Your Business and the other is called Human-centered Communication,
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  a business case against digital pollution.
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  If you haven't checked those books yet, I definitely encourage you to do so.
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  We'll link that up in the show notes also.
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  But what Darren and I do is kind of unpack this whole issue of digital pollution.
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  And how about yourself, especially during the pandemic and shelter in place, have you
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  felt, have you been feeling that there's just too much digital noise, too much digital
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  pollution, right?
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  I think if you're like me and like others, I've talked to you, you feel that that's the
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  case.
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  And there's different types of digital pollution, if you will, right?
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  But Bombom line as pollution comes down to irrelevant, unsolicited, poorly targeted and
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  overly aggressive messaging.
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  And sometimes more is, less is more, I should say, quality over quantity.
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  So Darren and I kind of unpack what's the challenges with digital pollution.
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  How do you not fall into the category of digital pollution and make sure that what you're
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  doing is relevant and welcome by the recipient?
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  And lots of other good talking points for you about how you can, you know, I architect
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  and design a customer experience that is high on the human touch and incorporates the
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  high tech touch when important and relevant.
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  So I think you'll enjoy this episode.
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  And more importantly, what's your one big takeaway?
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  Once you listen to this, come on back to the Facebook group, podcast group at Mortgage
• 7:46
  Marketing Radio and love to continue the conversation from there.
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  So without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
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  Hey Darren, welcome to the show.
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  Jeff, thanks for having me, man.
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  It's great to be here.
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  I have to say it's a pleasure and all right, I'm going to say it's an honor.
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  I'm not like, you know, make you feel strange or anything, but I mean, I've just been
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  a huge and this is going to sound like fanboy stuff, but it's true.
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  I've been a huge fan and user of Bombom for a number of years.
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  So I'm really excited that we get to talk to you today.
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  So thank you.
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  I appreciate that.
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  There's a lot of work that went into that and I'm thankful for all the customers, including
• 8:21
  yourself that have helped us out for a very long time.
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  It's great.
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  Yeah, I think I might have started using Bombom.
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  Dare I say eight, 10 years ago?
• 8:30
  Wow.
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  That's great.
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  You know, well, I quit my day job about 11 years ago.
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  So yeah, let's go.
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  You helped me pay for my first real car, maybe, or this house.
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  So I appreciate that.
• 8:43
  Well, you guys have definitely put in the sweat equity and all that now.
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  Of course, you're a well-known name within the industry of Morgan Real Estate and others
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  as well.
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  But look, I think in preparing for this conversation here today, there was lots we could talk
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  about, right?
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  But obviously we've got to focus in on a few things.
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  So I don't know.
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  If you were just do this in case anybody needs a quick refresher update or they've been
• 9:06
  living under Iraq, describe Bombom, who are you and what do you do?
• 9:11
  Yeah.
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  We make it very easy and simple to create videos and then send them in a place of messages
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  anywhere.
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  So anywhere you're sending a text message right now, you can simply send a video and
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  track everything that happens with that video.
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  So if I wanted to, I can send a video over LinkedIn.
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  I can send it through Facebook, Messenger, I can send through email.
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  I can send through, I use a Chrome app to put it into any place I want it.
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  Yes, I can host them on websites.
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  But typically what we're trying to help you do is stay face to face more often with the
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  people that matter in your business.
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  So what we like to focus on as a business is people who help people with their greatest
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  asset, which is the home.
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  So realtors, loan officers, insurance professionals, financial advisors, people who rely on a
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  repeat and referral business, people who are necessary in the transaction, meaning like
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  it's complex and I need to help you walk through this complex thing.
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  That's the people who have been with Bombom a very long time, like yourself.
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  They found us very early.
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  We have thousands and a pound, thousands of them across 50 countries or something now.
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  We're proud of that.
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  I think those folks like yourself found us early and we've loved them.
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  That's our focus.
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  That's where we spend most of our time thinking.
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  We try and solve problems for you.
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  We partner with all of your coaches and all the people that you admire to bring content
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  to you and what to say and when to say it.
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  And then nutshell, video messaging.
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  I think we understand these folks and your problems and your business better than anybody
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  else that does what we do.
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  Well, yeah, sure because the real estate industry is one that's still very personal, right?
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  It's a much more.
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  There's a lot of that personal brand element that could build on trust, I would say, right?
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  I choose you based on trust in the consumers view.
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  It's hard to say what's the difference between loan officer A and loan officer B, but when
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  you meet someone, you guys build relationships through no like and trust.
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  And for human beings, no like and trust is only typically built by meeting you and seeing
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  you and feeling you and we can get into more of that.
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  But I get really unattangent about that because to me, we ripped that out when we were confined
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  to just sending text messages.
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  To lose our humanness, that's for humanity, humanity, trust is for us.
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  Trust is built on how we feel about a person.
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  If they're going to be able to do for us, what we need them to do and do it better than
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  the other people that we're meeting that do what they do, okay?
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  So we feel like video really helps you do that.
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  It's a lot of do's.
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  That's a lot of do's in one team.
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  No, but I think everybody's not in their head to in agreement.
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  It makes a lot of sense, which of course is in part why social media has grown so much
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  as well.
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  That allows us to get to feel and know somebody through all that content.
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  But I want to focus on at least for the first half of our conversation or for proportion
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  of it is, this whole thing around, so you guys, your companies put out both Ethan and
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  Stephen, two amazing folks on your team over there, have put out two books.
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  One is rehumanize your business, selling books on Amazon, which is all about better business
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  communication.
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  But the most recent one, which I'm a huge fan of, which is human-centered communication,
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  and one in the subtitle is a business case against digital pollution.
• 12:49
  That's right.
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  And I thought that would be an interesting conversation for us to chew on a bit, because
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  I think everyone's feeling that.
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  Yeah, I do too, so you know, listen, well, first of all, the first, one of the best things
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  I ever did in this business was hire those guys.
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  Right, I worked with Ethan but he and I worked in a television station together.
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  I was the online director, Ethan was the promotions director, we're on a leadership team
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  and a local NBC affiliate when I and Connor came up with this crazy idea for, for bomb
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  bomb.
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  And it was like one of those jerrier, McGuire moments where I got Ethan to quit his job
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  and come with me to the adventure.
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  The foolish thing I did do is pay Ethan and stock early on and not in cash.
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  Ethan's one of our biggest shareholders, you know, kind of, because he got in so early,
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  but then Steve, I'm proud to say, has been with me over seven years.
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  I think that's rare.
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  Okay, so like he's our CMO, Ethan's our chief evangelist.
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  I've worked with Ethan going on like 17 years now and at bomb bomb 10.
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  So I'm really proud of that that we've all been the good or for a long time.
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  But yeah, both books are great.
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  The first one, rehumanize your business is about tactics and how to use video and step
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  by step methodology and psychology around why video and when to do it, what to say.
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  But the last one, human circle communication, a case against digital pollution.
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  I like to say we focus, we help you focus more on the recipient of all of your digital
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  communication because everyone, you said everyone needs that right now.
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  It's because we just went through this pandemic and I swear that was the genesis of that
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  book was, we're just, it's like this nuclear proliferation of digital stuff.
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  Right.
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  We define that as pollution.
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  It's just noise, right?
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  Because we no longer could be face to face.
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  So it's like we leveraged up on just send more stuff and that's like, and here's the
• 14:53
  deal, like this phone rings, I don't answer it, like unless you're in it, I don't answer
• 15:00
  anymore.
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  Okay.
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  But in most of the time, it's, it's people trying to sell me an extended warranty in my
• 15:06
  car, like that's a big thing.
• 15:09
  Well, and this goes to the point of pollution and I was watching, by the way, the trailer
• 15:13
  for this, you know, video or movie, what do you call in this thing that you guys have?
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  Dear first name.
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  Dear first name.
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  And so what's the intent behind this?
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  Well, I bet you've gotten one of these emails that came to you.
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  It just said it had this filler spot that's supposed to have Jeff in it and just says first
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  name.
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  That's how great we don't even care anymore.
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  It's like we're just sending all this stuff either from our phones to LinkedIn or inbox.
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  I mean, here's the thing I like to describe it to people.
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  I think most people can relate to this.
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  When you get a message now from a human, if you got that, or you got, say you're going
• 15:47
  to email five years ago, you would, it would say from this person's name, right?
• 15:53
  Right.
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  And you would like, even if you weren't interested, you kind of felt a reciprocity.
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  Like I need to let them know I'm not interested or I need to reply to this, right?
• 16:03
  Like, and that's because you thought that a human was on the other end of that email.
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  What I think we've been learning and what our brains now know is that that's not true.
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  Even if that says my name and it doesn't say first name, I don't believe you.
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  I don't believe the human actually sent it.
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  I think a machine that I think that technology did artificial intelligence did or automation
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  did.
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  And what that does is remove the reciprocity of me needing to respond to you.
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  Now it's, click, shift, select all, delete all.
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  I just don't, I just don't pay attention to that anymore.
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  I think most people, it's just pollution to me.
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  And so unless I know you, you don't get my phone answered.
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  It just goes the voicemail, unless I know you, I don't respond to your email.
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  So the question bags, how do I know you and how do humans build relationships and how
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  do we trust each other?
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  And so that's where we're kind of getting to in that book.
• 16:59
  And we try and help you focus more on the recipient because most communications based
• 17:04
  on the company sending it, what I want to get from it, not what the recipient should
• 17:12
  be getting from it.
• 17:13
  We have a mantra in marketing, it's be a value and abundance will follow.
• 17:19
  And that's really what that book's about.
• 17:21
  Well, that's really highlights, of course, probably the biggest problem with any tools.
• 17:25
  And I know you guys have seen this yourself as well.
• 17:27
  The misuse of a tool like bomb bomb, one of the things I grabbed when I was watching
• 17:33
  your trailer, I believe it was in that the digital pollution has led to the distrust of
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  digital media, which you illustrated a moment ago with that email example.
• 17:42
  And think about the texting and think about it's like, yeah, you don't answer your phone
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  anymore, right?
• 17:47
  We have this huge distrust of everything digital.
• 17:50
  So how do you think that video is the option, knowing that people still have to receive
• 17:57
  and open and engage with that message?
• 17:59
  How is that going to help us break through that?
• 18:02
  I do think that like video can be misused as well.
• 18:05
  And it doesn't necessarily only apply to video, but I can answer your question.
• 18:10
  I want to back up and say, look, any communication that focuses first on the value you're giving
• 18:15
  the person receiving it is more human centered, okay?
• 18:19
  So you can have a human centered text communication, absolutely.
• 18:24
  It's simply thinking about the recipient first and saying, am I bringing value to this
• 18:29
  person?
• 18:30
  Or am I just trying to set the appointment to meet my quota and get on to the next thing?
• 18:34
  It's less about me and it's more about them.
• 18:37
  So but in the video, I think it enhances it a bit more because like I was saying in
• 18:43
  beginning that human beings are unique that we decide if we trust someone based on meeting
• 18:51
  them.
• 18:52
  And like there's a bunch of, right, there's a bunch of psychology around this.
• 18:56
  A brief example would be that you see me talking with my hands, it's a gene I was given
• 19:02
  by my father, look, but back in the caveman days, if you didn't see my hands, you might
• 19:10
  think I'm holding a weapon.
• 19:13
  So that brain is still in there for you.
• 19:17
  So that trust is built through the tone you hear me say, you know, the tone I'm using,
• 19:22
  my inflection, my facial expressions, my hand gestures, your human brain is feeding
• 19:28
  all that in and saying, that person's talking to you and it's, you're registering that
• 19:33
  against all of your history, all your experience and you're deciding if you can trust them
• 19:40
  or not, or you're, you're sizing them up, right?
• 19:43
  Do I believe what they're saying?
• 19:44
  Do I understand what they're saying?
• 19:46
  All that happens in a, I think, you know, 99% of what I just described is removed in a
• 19:52
  text format, but yet texting and text has exploded not, I mean, hasn't been that long
• 20:00
  when you think about it.
• 20:01
  You're talking about the late 80s early, I got my first email address, I'm like 1993
• 20:06
  or something.
• 20:07
  It's not too long ago, okay, but our brains for millennia have been communicating with
• 20:13
  all these other factors.
• 20:14
  So you're just, you're taking it all out, we've heard videos worth a thousand words and
• 20:19
  it is all that, but it's even more because most people in a business context, we're trying
• 20:24
  to get you to trust us so that we can work together, have a relationship that's reoccurring
• 20:30
  that then you'll also go so far as to refer other people to my service, especially for
• 20:36
  your audience, right?
• 20:37
  I mean, that's a big, it's not just trust, it's beyond, it's more trust, I'm going to
• 20:43
  vouch for you, which might be the highest level of trust someone can give in a business
• 20:48
  context, right?
• 20:50
  I think video does that better, I think your chances ask yourself from what I just said,
• 20:55
  do you think your chances are better by sending a text communication, whether that be social
• 21:01
  media, whether any kind of business context, when you're trying to get the attention
• 21:06
  of someone to work with you, is your chances better that way or face to face?
• 21:12
  Yeah.
• 21:13
  And if you're in sales, the answer is probably face to face.
• 21:17
  If your answer is not face to face, I would challenge that you're in the right spot.
• 21:21
  Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of whatever that old study was originally, I thought it was
• 21:26
  from Stanford, but you know the 738-55, right, which is the, what creates influence, it's
• 21:32
  the percentage of the words, 38% of the tone, 55% is body language and things like that.
• 21:37
  Yeah, and so video, if you're not in person, video, the next best thing to be in there,
• 21:42
  right?
• 21:43
  Yeah, I also think that there's a time-saving mechanism there that there's a, look, if
• 21:49
  you're a loan officer, you get the same question daily, right, like again and again, but
• 21:57
  you know, a better customer service or a better customer experience rather would be to
• 22:03
  tell that person, answer that question for them, right, like, so if you're my loan officer
• 22:08
  and I've been through this with my, I've been using Scott Seaman for years, he's done countless
• 22:14
  deals with me.
• 22:15
  What's this company?
• 22:16
  Yeah, it's great.
• 22:17
  It's big, central, great guy, so known for a long time and if it's a refi, I got questions.
• 22:24
  Like look, I own a business, we got 116 employees, I don't understand this stuff, I don't.
• 22:30
  This by me, but it's a complex transaction that he needs to help me understand like, what's
• 22:35
  going on here?
• 22:36
  What do I need to pay attention to or, you know, I'm building a house.
• 22:40
  That was a deal.
• 22:41
  Like, okay, I was just a construction long thing work and what, like, and then I do what
• 22:45
  at the end and what is Scott, how much cash does that, but he's gotten that question countless
• 22:52
  times.
• 22:53
  Okay, he can create one video that explains that process that he's gotten that question
• 23:00
  a hundred times, explain the process for new home construction, how that works, explain
• 23:05
  a refi, explain a VA, explain it, what's there's been conventional in VA, have all those
• 23:10
  kind of lined out and just boom, and you get the question, send the video.
• 23:14
  You can deliver a video in a way that feels very personal to the recipient because of
• 23:18
  your brain, our human DNA, because I can do something like this, hey, thanks for that.
• 23:24
  We get that question a lot.
• 23:25
  Here's the difference between a VA loan and a conventional loan, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 23:30
  blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:31
  I hope that makes sense.
• 23:32
  If you have any questions about that, don't hesitate to send me back.
• 23:36
  That's a very personal delivery that really you can only do in person.
• 23:40
  If I wrote that email out, it almost seems too casual, it seems wrong.
• 23:44
  That dear first name problem goes away because when I say that video, that's what we call
• 23:49
  an evergreen video.
• 23:51
  You can use it again and again and again, but it's made once, but delivered many times.
• 23:57
  But your brain says he's talking to you.
• 24:00
  There is no, just the assumption immediately is and it feels better than the customer experience
• 24:06
  is better that way.
• 24:07
  It's interesting.
• 24:08
  It's like your brain completely skips that step of needing a dear first name because it
• 24:13
  creates this personal connection, seeing a human face and all that right away.
• 24:16
  The level is huge, right?
• 24:18
  It's not trying to trick anybody, I'm trying to save you time.
• 24:24
  But arguably, the response from the recipient is, thank you so much.
• 24:28
  That was a great, gosh, they took the time to make a video for me.
• 24:33
  Look, even if they are on the idea that it was canned or evergreen, it's better.
• 24:40
  It's better than a text response to that question.
• 24:43
  So you mentioned the word customer experience and I know that's in, you know, people throw
• 24:49
  that word around a lot and as I was kind of preparing for this, I was curious to ask
• 24:52
  you how you would describe customer experience because I think that's one of those words
• 24:58
  where people thought, it's like, well, what does that really mean customer experience?
• 25:02
  So what's your response to that?
• 25:04
  Now, we're really into this at Bombam, as you know, our podcast is called the customer
• 25:08
  experience.
• 25:10
  And so I've been on the podcast and we asked this question of everyone who comes on
• 25:14
  the podcast, my answer is, and it's similar to I think the most people, but it's every
• 25:20
  interaction your customer has with your brand, okay?
• 25:25
  So for us, it'd be everything from, you know, your sales experience, how you, you like
• 25:32
  our books, the emails that we send, when you get on the phone with one of our representatives,
• 25:39
  how do that feel, feels important to me from my position, how you feel about our business.
• 25:45
  I personally want to feel approachable to people who, who have our service.
• 25:50
  I want to solve problems for people and I'm entrepreneur hard.
• 25:54
  I want people to know that I want that to come across when I hear me on podcasts like
• 25:58
  this, but to our customer success professionals who, when you're our customer, I want you
• 26:04
  to be a customer for a very long time.
• 26:06
  I want you to tell everybody about us just like you do and your listeners do.
• 26:10
  And so for a loan officer or a realtor, it might be, you know, how are you different
• 26:15
  than your peers?
• 26:16
  And how do you make them feel interacting with you?
• 26:18
  Because I like to give this illustration of a company A and company B, if, in my perception,
• 26:24
  let's say it's landscaping, right?
• 26:26
  In my perception, company A and company B have the exact same service they're providing.
• 26:32
  They cost the same.
• 26:35
  There's really nothing different between them.
• 26:37
  How do I decide which one I'm going to work with?
• 26:42
  And the really the way I decide, I think most people do is it's the one I like the most
• 26:48
  for whatever reason and how do we decide who we like the most through this human experience?
• 26:53
  So I think that if you're competing for business, which all of us are, all of us, how we,
• 27:02
  people feel about us as they're making that decision is a big deal.
• 27:06
  And really, we all look the same on a black text with a white screen or it's how to
• 27:12
  be show up in that or like you said, the social media, how are we educating people along
• 27:17
  the way so that like when I do have this need, I'm calling them, right?
• 27:21
  And I just think that video is one of the easiest ways to help them experience you and
• 27:25
  leads to this better customer experience, especially again, in a consumer's mind.
• 27:29
  I just don't know about these things.
• 27:32
  I'm not a professional in financial services and how much liability insurance I need.
• 27:37
  That's why I need you.
• 27:39
  So you showing up this way, helping me think through, you know, what's this interesting
• 27:44
  thing all about?
• 27:45
  What's inflation mean to me?
• 27:47
  Do I, should I keep my money in the bank or should I put it to work in real estate?
• 27:51
  I know everyone on this call has an answer for that, but explain that answer to me and
• 27:55
  help me understand it.
• 27:57
  That's your customer experience, right, in social media or whatever, you can put that
• 28:00
  message out there so that I can make a decision to choose you when I'm ready to have that
• 28:04
  need.
• 28:05
  Well, you've used, I put this in brackets here on my notes, you've used the word feel
• 28:09
  multiple times.
• 28:10
  How do I feel about engaging with this company, this brand?
• 28:14
  That's right.
• 28:15
  I guess what all comes down, that's how we're making an assessment of who we decide to give
• 28:18
  our time and attention and money to.
• 28:20
  And that's human-centered communication.
• 28:22
  And I think there's been this huge swing too much over correction to AI automation and
• 28:30
  look, there is a place for that.
• 28:31
  I am not against it, but you can't swing all the way to one side or the other, like there's
• 28:37
  a place to make our businesses more efficient using these tools, right?
• 28:42
  But in the business that I'm talking to, real estate, financial services, loan origination
• 28:50
  and any of those interns, any of those, that is not a place to commoditize those people.
• 28:59
  Repeating referral business is the lifeblood.
• 29:01
  Either you're getting a referral from an agent or you're getting a referral from a past client
• 29:05
  or you're getting new business from someone you just met because you're educating them
• 29:09
  around this complex thing.
• 29:11
  I would not, if I'm big in our business, how I run the business, we do not outsource
• 29:17
  core competencies.
• 29:19
  Okay, so we host our own videos, we encode our own videos, we send our own email, like
• 29:25
  none of that is third party service.
• 29:27
  I think if you're in one of these businesses, that should not be something you're commoditizing
• 29:31
  or outsourcing or third party using.
• 29:34
  You need to, if you just dove into these existing relationships and really got into those
• 29:40
  more, I think it benefits you exponentially down the road in your business.
• 29:45
  I mean, the lifetime value of a customer, I was like, what is that to you?
• 29:50
  It should be like six to 10 transactions per person, at least, right?
• 29:55
  When you think about that, as a consumer, like I have at least done six transactions with
• 30:00
  Scott.
• 30:01
  So I'm worth six and I've referred nine people or something at least to Scott.
• 30:07
  My lifetime value as a customer is great.
• 30:09
  So send me a video and say, thanks for your business, simple things just mean so much
• 30:16
  more money.
• 30:17
  We get caught up in these other things.
• 30:19
  I think that that commoditized or mitigated the relationship and you shouldn't do that,
• 30:23
  especially not now.
• 30:24
  Well, again, it goes back to noise and digital pollution, like what gets the headlines?
• 30:30
  AI and tech disruption, fintech and soft bank and everything that's going on there, that
• 30:36
  gets all the attention.
• 30:37
  It doesn't get the attention is what you and I are talking about, which is how business
• 30:40
  actually happens.
• 30:42
  You've said a number of things that made me think of like, and I know you know these stats
• 30:46
  pretty well too, which is, okay, five million homes are sold on average in a year.
• 30:50
  89% of those people still use a real estate agent, right?
• 30:53
  Yep.
• 30:54
  Why?
• 30:55
  And I always like to do the comparison.
• 30:56
  I'm sure you've heard it before, which is, you know, it's one thing to 100% rely on tech
• 31:01
  and an app for an Uber ride.
• 31:03
  I'm just not going to do it, but I think the trust back to trust.
• 31:14
  Yeah, it's in relationship.
• 31:15
  Look, my, my realtor is at bear and Renee, the bear and bear team, right?
• 31:21
  Great friends of mine and I'm not going anywhere else.
• 31:24
  So, you know, we're, I'll self identify, I'm in the 50 plus category, but do you think
• 31:29
  even the newbies, the newer, the younger folks, do you think they're going to have a different,
• 31:34
  you know, appetite for that?
• 31:35
  Well, if you remember, I mean, five years ago, I remember saying that they weren't even
• 31:39
  going to buy homes.
• 31:40
  Right.
• 31:41
  And now, they're the ones that can't get a home that want, they're buying them in mass.
• 31:47
  So there's always, you know, there's always these predictions, but no, I do think that.
• 31:52
  Do they want to look, my wife is shopping for homes constantly.
• 31:57
  Not to buy them.
• 31:59
  She's voyeuristically, and I am too.
• 32:02
  I should have, she's going to hear this.
• 32:03
  Wait a minute.
• 32:04
  You're right there with me.
• 32:05
  You know, we're looking at homes that I get an alert that tells me every time a home comes
• 32:09
  for sale around my neighborhood, right?
• 32:11
  Like, and I'm like, oh, cool.
• 32:13
  Look at the pictures and how does my house rank?
• 32:16
  I think that's changed.
• 32:18
  That's changed information.
• 32:20
  I'm going to identify what I want.
• 32:22
  And I'm going to be very smart and be like, okay, Pete, I want this or Ed, I want this,
• 32:27
  you know, the benefit with bomb bombs, I got a real turn every bird, but I want to buy
• 32:32
  and reckon, Ridge, I can call Pete.
• 32:34
  And if I want to buy here, I could call Ed, you know, it's, but I know what I want to
• 32:39
  do there.
• 32:40
  I'm telling him, hey, I'm looking for something like this.
• 32:42
  Can you figure that out?
• 32:43
  Right?
• 32:44
  I can figure that out.
• 32:45
  But then I don't want to deal with it for, I don't, I don't think people have time
• 32:48
  or expertise to deal with this.
• 32:50
  Now, if you think you do, great, and some people might, but it's always going to be the
• 32:54
  very smart percentage.
• 32:55
  Look, for sale by owners has always been a small percentage compared to the market, okay?
• 33:01
  And we, look, like the headlines that sell are fear-based.
• 33:07
  The headlines, unfortunately, all media is based on ratings, okay?
• 33:11
  And that could be clicks, that could be engagement, whatever it is.
• 33:15
  That's what they're selling ads to promote it.
• 33:17
  So the headlines that aren't very sexy, you know, like in a better word, don't get promoted.
• 33:24
  And that is repeating referral business, that is, you know, relationships matter.
• 33:29
  They say sure do.
• 33:30
  So all right.
• 33:31
  So I think we've set up the stage right when I think everybody recognizes there's digital
• 33:35
  pollution, particularly since coming through the pandemic, when everybody was just stuck
• 33:38
  looking at their phones or their screens and, you know, the over.
• 33:41
  And then like you said earlier, is people have gone into the push everything out mode,
• 33:47
  just like the big thing of snow or your hat, just push the snow forward, right?
• 33:51
  Hopefully something good happens and that's creating this distrust and tuning out.
• 33:55
  But the other thing that is true is this is that tools like Bombom make it easy to have
• 34:00
  quote, human centered communication.
• 34:03
  Yet, and I know you know this, you probably see your usage stats, but, but why do not
• 34:08
  more people embrace it?
• 34:10
  Yeah, I got a lot to say about this, I'm glad you're back.
• 34:13
  So yeah, I'll just say our bomb bomb or two core comp me have two core competencies.
• 34:18
  The first one is speed to video.
• 34:19
  I want to make it easy to quickly record and send and track any in an environment.
• 34:26
  But the second one is guidance to success.
• 34:29
  And this will come all the way back to your question because people, when the camera turns
• 34:34
  on, somehow they don't, they don't know what to say.
• 34:38
  Like the person was sitting across for them in a, in a desk in that environment, in a restaurant,
• 34:43
  they know exactly what to say.
• 34:45
  But for some reason, when they turn the camera on, they have a hard time and there's
• 34:48
  a few reasons for that like to unpack.
• 34:50
  So I think the first one, maybe more for our generation is that we still remember that
• 34:55
  the 10 o'clock news and remember Ethan and I came from news.
• 34:58
  And so the 10 o'clock news or 11 o'clock news is the thing.
• 35:01
  And it was polished and was produced and it was people were in suits and they said things
• 35:06
  a certain way and you know, and we thought that video had to be like that to be good.
• 35:15
  And we kind of describe this as marketing through video, like marketing video, like it's
• 35:19
  polished, it's branded and all this stuff.
• 35:22
  Well, so that was for folks of a certain age, we say, don't think about it that way.
• 35:27
  Be more transparent, be less polished, be more authentically you.
• 35:33
  So that's a hardship for folks like us, okay, it is.
• 35:37
  And we help them walk through that.
• 35:38
  Then there's the newer younger folks from a younger demographic.
• 35:43
  They're being taught that you need to use a filter that you need to, you know, smooth
• 35:49
  your skin out that these things are what is good, that everyone's doing this, like you're
• 35:56
  not, you don't look good enough, so you need to fix yourself.
• 36:00
  Both are lies and both I don't think are authentically human and don't build trust.
• 36:07
  And in fact, I think all of those things I just described are the antithesis of what
• 36:12
  I was trying to communicate about feeling and trust and building a relationship.
• 36:16
  I think what here I got to talk about the third thing.
• 36:20
  How I hear myself talking right now is not how you hear me.
• 36:24
  Okay.
• 36:25
  So when I play back a video, I go, wow, I don't like that.
• 36:30
  In your brain says, do you don't like that?
• 36:32
  That doesn't sound like you because we hear ourselves in our heads.
• 36:36
  And the only time we really look at ourselves is in the mirror when we brush our teeth in
• 36:39
  the morning, but you know, zoom in these, you know, Microsoft teams, we do video conferencing
• 36:44
  now so that that's helped that more, but still it's how I sound.
• 36:49
  Most people don't do it because they don't like how they sound.
• 36:52
  They don't like how they look and they don't know what to say is what they claim.
• 36:56
  However, again, if you were to pick up the phone, they'd know what to say because they've
• 37:00
  been doing it for 20 years and it's no big deal for some reason the camera turns on.
• 37:04
  So I had to identify these kind of three bumpers that really challenged people to do video.
• 37:13
  Now I have some solutions to that.
• 37:14
  Would you like to think about that?
• 37:16
  Let's do it.
• 37:18
  I think for humans, what we really thrive on, what we need more of in this world is gratitude
• 37:26
  and empathy.
• 37:27
  Okay.
• 37:28
  So I'm going to get a little cycle cycle or do some psychology and a little deep here,
• 37:34
  but the first thing you should do if you're beginning to send video or getting into video
• 37:39
  and you're not sure about it is send gratitude videos to people you know and that like you
• 37:44
  and they know you and just say thank you.
• 37:47
  So it could be a past client that you've known forever send them a video and say thank
• 37:53
  you for your business sincerely show gratitude help them tell them how much you mean they
• 38:00
  mean to you.
• 38:01
  Thank you for the referrals for the last decade or whatever it might be.
• 38:04
  They will love getting that you will love sending it and you will usually get a message
• 38:10
  back from them being blown away and gratitude overwhelms.
• 38:15
  It also increases your referrals by the way.
• 38:18
  This helps people remember to refer you, but it doesn't have to be in a business context
• 38:22
  either.
• 38:23
  It could be a coworker.
• 38:24
  It could be a realtor partner.
• 38:25
  You've worked with for a long time that's always sending you referrals.
• 38:27
  Hey, I just you know what?
• 38:28
  I don't say it enough.
• 38:29
  I just want to take a quick second and send this video and say thank you sincerely.
• 38:34
  You meant so much to me and the business you've sent.
• 38:36
  I can't say enough of our relationship.
• 38:38
  Thank you so much.
• 38:40
  It builds confidence.
• 38:41
  Look, I get my I get goosebumps saying that and I'm like not even saying it to anybody.
• 38:47
  Our minds trigger off of endorphins.
• 38:51
  Those endorphins can be good.
• 38:53
  It's what social media is.
• 38:54
  We get triggered off the endorphins released by seeing these things like and getting likes.
• 38:59
  You can do the same thing, sending gratitude videos and receiving gratitude back and that
• 39:05
  helps us build empathy with each other helps people understand each other better.
• 39:09
  I need a lot more of that in this world and it makes you feel good, makes other people
• 39:13
  feel good.
• 39:14
  And then when those endorphins get going, you actually start wanting to do video.
• 39:17
  It's the same thing that drives you back to social media again and again.
• 39:21
  I'm not trying to make you an addict for bomb bomb, but I am trying to make you an addict
• 39:24
  for gratitude and thankfulness and I trust me if you change your mindset and you start
• 39:31
  your day with gratitude.
• 39:32
  So what do you usually tell people you're getting going video for next two weeks send five
• 39:36
  gratitude videos a day.
• 39:38
  The harsh thing you're going to have is, who am I going to send my gratitude today for?
• 39:42
  Even if it was one or two videos of gratitude a day, you will get used to sending videos
• 39:48
  and it will build your confidence and you'll be better at it.
• 39:51
  That's a great exercise actually for somebody to do to put down a list of every person that
• 39:56
  you're grateful for.
• 39:58
  It could be relative to whatever.
• 39:59
  Like you said, past clients, but I think the point is to be family could be that lives
• 40:04
  across country.
• 40:05
  Yeah.
• 40:06
  Just get yourself into the habit.
• 40:07
  Like you said, the positive loop that happens with all the kind of jazz, then you'd be comfortable
• 40:11
  with it.
• 40:12
  And most importantly, like you said, we could all do better by having higher levels of gratitude,
• 40:18
  right?
• 40:19
  Success in anything is about mindset.
• 40:22
  If you're working out, you're exercising.
• 40:25
  It doesn't matter.
• 40:26
  It's about mindset business.
• 40:27
  It's about mindset.
• 40:28
  It's about perseverance and this is no different, but that exercise just has this reciprocating
• 40:35
  effect of before you and them and it's great.
• 40:39
  Yeah.
• 40:40
  So gratitude.
• 40:41
  Love it.
• 40:42
  Ampathy was that part two?
• 40:43
  Yeah.
• 40:44
  So I really think we lack empathy for each other in the only way that we can really build
• 40:50
  that is the build to to no one another deeper.
• 40:53
  And so I do think that empathy is tied into the gratitude video because you just build
• 40:58
  that deeper relationship.
• 40:59
  We just don't do these things enough.
• 41:01
  Like we're usually too grumpy to say thank you, like in an intentional way.
• 41:06
  Like we could say thank you for this or thank you for that.
• 41:08
  But being intentional, it builds empathy for other people.
• 41:12
  So then when I do get grumpy, you have, I got chips in the bank, so to speak like for
• 41:18
  my wife, if I show her gratitude and intentional gratitude, the next time I'm grumpy, she's
• 41:25
  got way more empathy for me if I screw it up, right?
• 41:29
  So when you do screw something up, you got chips in the tank or chips in the bank that
• 41:34
  can be retracted instead of always just kind of one step away from not being referred,
• 41:39
  right?
• 41:40
  Yeah.
• 41:41
  Yeah, what was it all that all that they used to say about making deposits in the emotional
• 41:44
  bank account?
• 41:45
  That's right.
• 41:46
  Like that because then you got plenty to draw on.
• 41:48
  So if you're always extracting from the emotional bank account, then yeah, you don't have much
• 41:52
  to draw from.
• 41:53
  That's cool.
• 41:54
  I like that.
• 41:55
  I love that practice of, you know, five videos a day.
• 41:56
  Maybe it's one a day.
• 41:57
  Right.
• 41:58
  You can handle.
• 41:59
  Yeah, it is just start.
• 42:00
  Yeah.
• 42:01
  Gratitude.
• 42:02
  And then amp it up to these videos to customers and doing things like that.
• 42:06
  Hmm.
• 42:07
  Interesting.
• 42:08
  So are you an advocate then for quality over quality, quality over quantity for content,
• 42:13
  video content?
• 42:14
  Yeah.
• 42:15
  I think I can tie that back into this.
• 42:17
  One question I get all the time is how long should the video be?
• 42:22
  And I always say as long as it needs to be.
• 42:26
  Because if it's a complex singer walking through, it could be a two minute, three minute
• 42:29
  video.
• 42:30
  If it's not like it can be less than a minute, if it's a quick response, right?
• 42:34
  But I think it just depends on what is the message.
• 42:38
  So I use video all the time, but I don't do it if it's like, yeah, that sounds good
• 42:44
  thanks.
• 42:45
  I don't do a video.
• 42:46
  Right.
• 42:47
  But if it's not, I typically will just send a video because I want to be heard and understood
• 42:50
  and I want them to see, hear my tone, hear my inflection, all those things.
• 42:54
  So in I do both, I've sent over 10,000 personal videos or something.
• 42:58
  I think our leader in our company is in over 27,000, one to one videos.
• 43:03
  I think Ethan's in the 20,000's.
• 43:05
  So we're zealots for it.
• 43:09
  Like we're fundamentalists, okay?
• 43:11
  So I think that how he's talking about, I'm like, look, we're fundamentalists.
• 43:15
  You can't make everybody think this way like we got to we got to walk them along.
• 43:19
  So quality, yes, quantity, maybe absolutely choose your battles in the beginning, not everything
• 43:25
  has to be a video.
• 43:27
  But gosh, if it's better set in person, send a video, right?
• 43:31
  It'd be better said face to face, send a video.
• 43:35
  Okay, I love that.
• 43:37
  Before we run out of time, let's also give a couple pointers on referencing your book
• 43:42
  here at Human Center Communication.
• 43:43
  Once again, yes, video can pollute.
• 43:46
  So how should they not be using video?
• 43:50
  I mean, in Bombom, you can send a mass email with a video on it.
• 43:54
  I don't love that.
• 43:55
  I think that again, the tenet to hold to in all these digital communications is what value,
• 44:02
  I mean, for real value, my brain to the recipient.
• 44:06
  And then this is from Ethan, and he says it's all the time.
• 44:11
  One, he would say a and then be a, you know, every communication you send, you're setting up
• 44:21
  for the next send.
• 44:23
  So if it's not a value, you start to get people to not trust you.
• 44:27
  So the next time you send them something, they don't open it.
• 44:30
  Everyone calls us like, oh, my open rates are horrible.
• 44:32
  It's your fault.
• 44:33
  No, it's your fault because you're not sending things out of value.
• 44:37
  So that's a big deal to understand in all marketing, digital communication, right?
• 44:43
  So if we're sending things, we're setting up the next open rate, remember that.
• 44:50
  And then be, if you don't know them and you picked up the phone and you said, hey, Jeff,
• 44:55
  what's up?
• 44:56
  And they don't know who you are.
• 44:57
  You probably shouldn't be sending them an email on solicited.
• 45:00
  No one wants to hear that, okay?
• 45:03
  I'm a big Seth Godin fan.
• 45:05
  I don't know.
• 45:06
  I built this business based on the idea of a thousand true fans, a purple cow.
• 45:10
  You should know these people.
• 45:12
  You don't need a hundred thousand, a thousand even sometimes in your database.
• 45:17
  You need 200 that really appreciate you and will refer you.
• 45:22
  You have a great business if you do that well.
• 45:25
  Some people, I get it.
• 45:26
  You get bigger.
• 45:27
  It's fine.
• 45:28
  I'm not against it.
• 45:29
  But what are your open rates?
• 45:30
  Sure.
• 45:31
  Can you pick up the phone and do they know who you are?
• 45:32
  Fantastic.
• 45:33
  That's scales.
• 45:34
  That's scales.
• 45:36
  It's interesting.
• 45:37
  I'm thinking about that from my side of the things in that I help people with outbound
• 45:41
  marketing an email and things like that.
• 45:43
  And yeah, it's right from your point of view.
• 45:45
  I tell you, Google and Outlook and these guys are not getting more like accepting of these
• 45:53
  tactics.
• 45:54
  Right.
• 45:55
  Well, look at what Apple's doing.
• 45:56
  Oh, yeah.
• 45:57
  Let me see.
• 45:58
  Right.
• 45:59
  Google's right behind them.
• 46:00
  Email.
• 46:01
  Look, they're removing tracking from email could be happening and we will see that happen.
• 46:07
  So the communication is going to be valuable because that's how you know they received it
• 46:11
  because they're going to respond to you.
• 46:13
  We got to start thinking about that now because those things are all moving very, very,
• 46:17
  very, very quickly.
• 46:19
  Facebook's valuation just got collabored just on the announcement of it.
• 46:25
  That's, that's, that's very true.
• 46:27
  Eventually, I mean, it's likely they say, right?
• 46:29
  I think Seth Godin said that, right?
• 46:31
  Marketers ruin everything.
• 46:32
  100%.
• 46:33
  I also think he wrote a book called Marketers or Liars.
• 46:37
  Yeah.
• 46:38
  I got a few of them over here on the shelf.
• 46:40
  This is marketing is one of my favorites.
• 46:42
  Yeah.
• 46:43
  All right.
• 46:44
  Well, look at that.
• 46:45
  We are just about out of time.
• 46:46
  This has been amazing conversation.
• 46:47
  Hey, guys, what's up?
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• 46:49
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