Latest / Age Defiantly with Mark Young / [Ep 32] Melatonin Study Fallout: A Smarter Sleep Fix | Carl Pradelli

Transcript

[Ep 32] Melatonin Study Fallout: A Smarter Sleep Fix | Carl Pradelli · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

• 0:00
  Welcome to Performance Driven Living, the podcast where we question everything.
• 0:05
  We don't tip to around tough topics, we walk right into them, not to provoke, but to
• 0:11
  get closer to what's real.
• 0:13
  You might not agree with everything you hear, and that's okay.
• 0:17
  The show isn't about being right, it's about being real.
• 0:20
  These conversations are meant to stretch your thinking, challenge assumptions, and spark
• 0:25
  something deeper.
• 0:26
  The views shared are those of our guests and may not reflect those of the host or team.
• 0:32
  And while we dive deep into health, performance, and transformation, this is not medical advice.
• 0:38
  Talk to your doctor before making changes to your health or lifestyle.
• 0:42
  Take what lands, believe what doesn't, but whatever you do, don't stop questioning.
• 0:55
  We're here on the Performance Driven Living podcast, and I am excited today because I actually
• 0:59
  get to introduce all of you to someone who I've had the pleasure of calling friend for
• 1:03
  many years now.
• 1:05
  Now Carl, I'm going to introduce you reading what the team puts together because it's
• 1:08
  kind of become tradition here that they do such a great job that I would never do you
• 1:13
  justice the way that they do you justice here.
• 1:15
  So today we are joined by Carl Pradelli, co-founder and CEO of Nature City, the nutrition company
• 1:22
  that he and his wife Beth started back in 2002.
• 1:25
  Now, I'm going to stop right there and say, I'm impressed that a married couple can work
• 1:30
  together for 23 years.
• 1:32
  And both of you are still alive.
• 1:34
  I mean, well, that's impressive itself.
• 1:37
  It says more about how it doesn't mean I'm pretty sure.
• 1:40
  But he started Nature City with Beth in 2002 to make science supported supplements people
• 1:45
  can actually trust.
• 1:47
  For more than two decades, Carl has led formulation strategy, prioritizing research
• 1:52
  back ingredients, transparent labels, and quality standards aimed at real-world results.
• 1:57
  He also hosts the Nature City podcast, turning nutrition science into simple, usable takeaways
• 2:03
  with a BS from New York University and an MBA from Wharton.
• 2:07
  He blends consumer empathy with disciplined product leadership.
• 2:11
  If you care about what goes in your body and why this conversation is for you, Carl,
• 2:18
  thank you for joining us here.
• 2:19
  Well, thank you so much for that warm welcome, right?
• 2:22
  It was very well done.
• 2:25
  I appreciate that.
• 2:26
  Thank you so much.
• 2:27
  I told you, they put together these intros and the first few episodes we ever did, I
• 2:31
  go to introduce the person.
• 2:32
  And it's even worse if I know the person, which is backwards.
• 2:36
  And then I'm like, why am I not just reading this?
• 2:38
  You guys do such a great job.
• 2:40
  My only favorite one actually was, we had a couple of guys, well, Robin Randy from, you
• 2:45
  know who Robin Randy are from the Happy Healthy Guys.
• 2:48
  Yeah, I've heard him.
• 2:49
  Yeah, they were out a while ago.
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  It's so funny because they were a last-minute addition when we had a day's worth of podcasts.
• 2:54
  We were banging out back to back.
• 2:57
  And the team got their names completely wrong.
• 3:00
  They just totally grabbed the wrong names and did this whole background on them completely.
• 3:04
  The only time that's ever happened and I was dying.
• 3:06
  The podcast or nightmare right there.
• 3:09
  Oh no, I laughed about it.
• 3:10
  So I just kept calling them by their wrong names, just being funny.
• 3:13
  Sounds like they were good sports.
• 3:15
  Oh yeah, they're hilarious.
• 3:16
  So Carl, I wanted to talk to you here on this podcast for a very specific reason.
• 3:22
  And it's like, I'd love to talk about, I mean, one of the things about how you and your
• 3:25
  wife managed to not kill each other, being in business together because working with
• 3:28
  family is tough, working with a spouse.
• 3:31
  I can't imagine because there's nobody in the world that I like that much that I want
• 3:35
  to spend that much time with.
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  So kudos to you guys.
• 3:40
  But I also want to unpack in this introduction, there was a word that he said that I really
• 3:45
  want to unpack and that it may sound, it may sound crazy, but I'm trying to find the
• 3:50
  exact place.
• 3:51
  But he said supplements, people can actually trust.
• 3:56
  And I've got questions on my favorite topics because this is, this is your wheelhouse.
• 4:01
  This is where you've spent your career is not just in formulation, but I love everybody
• 4:06
  is looking for the fancy, sexy supplement, right?
• 4:11
  And it's like the STEM regions, I love them, but super sexy product, right, quality
• 4:17
  of life.
• 4:18
  They do these amazing, you know, new tropic type, great products, love them, don't discourage
• 4:24
  timeline with their special ingredients and their mitopure additives and all this.
• 4:30
  And all this is great and there's probably no these names.
• 4:34
  But one thing that I just love about nature city is I'm a big fan of sure you can do
• 4:38
  all of these things, but what are we doing with the basics?
• 4:43
  Yeah.
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  And sometimes we're so busy reaching for the majors that were tripping on the minors in
• 4:50
  the health and nutrition world and I'll just say nutrition in general because this goes
• 4:53
  from food, food pyramids, all these conversations, this isn't just about supplements, I'm just
• 4:59
  going to start and ask you, why would you pick this as a career?
• 5:03
  This is not for the, this is not for the faint of heart.
• 5:06
  Well, that's really, well, let me saw her if I answered that question.
• 5:09
  I kind of gave this answer similarly on someone else's show recently and if 30 years ago,
• 5:15
  you told me I was going to be running a supplement company living in Florida and appearing
• 5:21
  on your podcast, I guess, I would have said no way, I would have bet literally my entire
• 5:28
  life that there's no way any of that's going to happen, but life takes you in crazy
• 5:32
  direction sometimes.
• 5:33
  So, so really it all started.
• 5:36
  My wife and I were really just frustrated supplement consumers, you know.
• 5:40
  This is now, again, around 2000, early 2000s and the Dechet, Lloran Congress, which really
• 5:47
  made supplements more accessible and made options much more available was passed I think
• 5:53
  in 94 and the industry was really just coming of age, but it was really hard to figure
• 6:00
  out who to trust, where you could get reliable information and even if you really knew
• 6:05
  what you wanted, trying to select from all the options available was a challenge.
• 6:10
  Well, and if I can ask, like back then, you're talking late 90s or early 2000, yeah, everybody
• 6:16
  went to GNC.
• 6:17
  Well, that's where I, that's where I shop, then let me, you know, I don't want to bang
• 6:21
  on GNC, you know, business miles will be vows, then, but you have so many shelves.
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  Well, here's the thing, you know, you'd walk into this, I'd walk into it, I lived on
• 6:30
  the, at the time of the upper west side of Manhattan.
• 6:33
  So you walk into this store and you just surrounded by walls and shelves of bottles.
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  And you know, it's pre-intimidating, you know, when you try to figure out what to get,
• 6:44
  when you have to put something and adjust something into your body, you quickly find out the
• 6:49
  people there, you have superficial knowledge about things, not really, can't really answer
• 6:54
  the questions you're interested in.
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  And worse, I don't think this still happens.
• 6:58
  I was really kind of horrified to discover that brands would spiff the actual employees
• 7:05
  on the floor to sell their products.
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  So if you, if we had Mark Young's brand, you could offer a dollar to push your product
• 7:17
  and you'd pay for each bottle of salt, you'd pay that and pay a dollar.
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  Now, who's these people making five, six dollars an hour?
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  Who's interested in a half?
• 7:27
  Yours?
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  What are?
• 7:29
  Oh, it's totally.
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  And so it was, so that really just kind of frustrated us, you've feared it had to be
• 7:38
  a better way.
• 7:39
  But then life again, like I said, life takes you in strange ways.
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  I started out my career in the kind of investment banking private equity world.
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  And Mark, if you know anything about that business, it could be, you paid very well, but you
• 7:54
  have kind of these golden handcuffs, they say, where your bonuses are, you get a bonus,
• 7:59
  but you don't immediately get it.
• 8:00
  It's kind of vested over the next few years, where each year you get part of it.
• 8:05
  And also instead of cash, I'll often give you paper or stock or something like that,
• 8:09
  which they don't want you to sell because, you know, you want to show confidence in the
• 8:12
  company and whatever.
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  So what happens is the company I had worked for my entire adult life at that point.
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  I really don't have two jobs in my adult life.
• 8:22
  That one in this one.
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  So really what happens is we were acquired by another similar company.
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  And what happens at that point, everything you have, this and turns to cash.
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  So it's kind of really a point in life where you have to kind of make decision, a decision.
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  And it's like, do I want to start the clock ticking, start this all over again?
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  Or do I want to go in a different direction?
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  And what I really enjoyed about what I did, I worked a lot with consumer companies and
• 8:54
  retail companies, you know, and some of some someone businesses businesses, what I really
• 8:58
  enjoyed was working with smaller companies, entrepreneurial companies that I could really
• 9:04
  make a difference.
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  Like, you know, where my firm was heading, we were working a lot of larger companies and
• 9:09
  I was just a guy, you know, they, you know, but small companies really appreciate your
• 9:14
  advice and I could really use more of what I felt my skills were.
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  So I really had, that gave me the whole entrepreneurial bug.
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  I like being an owner more than just an agent.
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  So there was that and there really was this whole, you know, so it was like, what am I going
• 9:29
  to do?
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  And, you know, again, the supplement business, I felt like there was a better way to do it.
• 9:35
  And I also, at the time, was on the board directors, you've been in New York City a bunch
• 9:39
  of times, there's a drugstore chain called Dwayne Reed, right, there were almost every
• 9:43
  quarter.
• 9:44
  Well, I was on the board directors, that company we owned, we had purchased it and, you know,
• 9:49
  I record you get these category reports, what's selling in the stores, right?
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  And you see, this is 10%, that's 12%, and this is this VMS thing that's growing at 70%.
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  And I'm like, what's VMS, right, vitamin is mineral supplements, right?
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  Right.
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  70%, right?
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  Just totally blowing away everything else, the selling in the store, that's interesting.
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  So I just felt like the windows that are backed, supplements are going to be a much bigger
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  part of the healthcare equation, and you'd come into some cash.
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  I come into cash, so we really just reinvested that in what ultimately became Nature City
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  and 2025, here we are.
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  I know, right?
• 10:26
  23 years later.
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  But, well, so Carl, I agree with you, the supplement space, I mean, I remember being
• 10:32
  a kid and my dad was always big into supplements, like he was always at a GNC somewhere.
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  Yeah.
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  And as a kid, like I used to remember, like if we were at them all or wherever with him
• 10:42
  and we'd go into a GNC, like, it was overwhelming, like I had no idea, and he'd walk in and talk
• 10:46
  to these people, but it's like, the entire store is staffed with Jim Brose, who are, you
• 10:52
  know, there because they get creatine on discount, right?
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  Like that's kind of why they have their job.
• 10:57
  And you know, all good, like more power to them, but the cash years, like the cash years
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  with, as you mentioned, a little bit of product knowledge.
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  And the supplement world is just, I mean, I spend a lot of time in it now, as you know,
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  and it's like, but it's overwhelming, like, and then I really wonder sometimes because
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  particularly, I would say for just the average Joe consumer, the food pyramid just got
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  turned on its head.
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  Yeah.
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  Like, we're talking supplementing, but I want to unpack the word supplement real quick,
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  because supplement literally is supplemental to something else.
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  Yeah.
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  People forget that.
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  Correct.
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  Like we talk about supplements, and there are some, we call them supplements, but vitamins,
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  minerals and supplements, right?
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  Yeah.
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  Like, there are some things I mentioned, like a STEM region or something, well, you're not
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  getting that through nutrition.
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  And so much of what people are talking about when they say supplements is supplemental
• 11:54
  to their diet, of course.
• 11:58
  What in, I mean, connect those dots for me because you sell supplements, but what do you,
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  what do you find?
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  Because to me, it's like, people want me to give them advice on supplements all the time.
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  And I'm like, I don't know, I've never seen your lab work.
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  I don't know what your diet looks like.
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  What am I supplementing?
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  Right.
• 12:14
  Well, so we say supplements are part of like a tripod, if you will.
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  Okay.
• 12:20
  So you have, how are you eating, and your diet, the choices you're making there, and your
• 12:27
  lifestyle, and clearly are you staying active, hopefully not engaging too much in alcohol
• 12:36
  and smoking, all these other activities, which we know aren't good for our health.
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  And then it comes to filling in some gaps nutritionally, and also helping support different
• 12:46
  biological processes with supplements.
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  Okay.
• 12:49
  So within supplements, I mean, there's several different legs on that stool.
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  You have just essential nutrients like your vitamins and minerals.
• 12:56
  Even if you are eating a real healthy diet and doing the right things, it's hard to get,
• 13:03
  you know, to meet the RDAs, forget some people think sometimes RDAs are too low for certain
• 13:08
  nutrients, but it's hard enough just to meet the RDAs.
• 13:10
  Just to get to the minimums, yeah.
• 13:12
  For all the vitamins and minerals, it's really a challenge.
• 13:15
  I mean, if you don't believe it, just try it.
• 13:17
  Keep a food diary for a week and see what you take in, and you'll see you're coming up
• 13:21
  short on average most days.
• 13:25
  So you have that basic, that basic gap you have to fill.
• 13:30
  And then you have some personal concerns you may be concerned about, or you are concerned
• 13:36
  about, that you want some help with, or maybe as you age, you see, like in my case,
• 13:41
  you know, as I get older, I like to do something active every day, but muscle recovery and
• 13:45
  joint recovery is a challenge, right?
• 13:47
  Just as it comes to, so, you know, we have certain products that help fill that and make
• 13:53
  a huge difference.
• 13:54
  I know for me, if I'm any of our clients, you have people who are worried about their
• 13:58
  hard health, you have people worried about digestive health.
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  It's really different kind of, I guess, condition specific, lack of a better term, support
• 14:07
  to help really, you know, bridge.
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  And that's maybe even on top of like living well, or start eating well and maintain a healthy
• 14:17
  lifestyle.
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  We have some other botanicals and other things that science has shown, published science
• 14:23
  has shown, can help.
• 14:24
  So that's really how I, if someone asked me the question that you said, look, we have
• 14:29
  some staples that we really recommend to take, okay?
• 14:33
  And here's why, because even if you're in a great diet, you're not getting enough vitamin
• 14:36
  K2.
• 14:37
  You're probably not getting enough omega-3s, or your ratio of omega-3s to omega-6 is a,
• 14:42
  right?
• 14:43
  Right.
• 14:44
  Magnesium, you know, I recently did, you know, was track mag, magnesium intake to see
• 14:48
  what it is.
• 14:49
  You know, and I'm trying to get to the RDA, but I'm only getting like 250 milligrams
• 14:52
  or 300 milligrams a day on average, you know.
• 14:54
  Yeah, I mean, I could run through a laundry list of supplements or vitamins and minerals
• 14:59
  and what other people just don't get, like, potassium, like, oh my gosh, like nobody gets
• 15:03
  the right amount of potassium.
• 15:04
  Yeah.
• 15:05
  Yeah, no, it's hard.
• 15:06
  So these are some of the things that, you know, they're really important for healthy aging.
• 15:12
  And that's where we say, look, that's where you, if you have to start somewhere, start
• 15:15
  there.
• 15:16
  Well, so, so let me ask you though, because this is the part that always gets me, and
• 15:19
  I think listeners probably feel the same way.
• 15:23
  That is, you try to eat healthy, right?
• 15:26
  I think most people think they try at least, and they'll probably have a few confessions.
• 15:31
  But, but most people try to eat healthy, and for most people, it's just to keep the weight
• 15:35
  off, right?
• 15:36
  Like, but I always make this comment about we don't eat for nutrition.
• 15:39
  We, and I, you know, one of the phrases I'll use with my friends is, and I'll laugh and
• 15:43
  say, like, we, we pick our dinner with our ears, you know, it's kind of like, well, what
• 15:48
  does that even mean?
• 15:49
  I'm like, well, if I ask you if you want to go grab dinner, you ask me what sounds good.
• 15:53
  Like, well, what in the world does sound have to do with what I chose for meal, right?
• 15:58
  But, but I don't go to Applebees and, and, you know, ask them to put together the meal
• 16:02
  based on the things that I didn't get my nutrition for.
• 16:05
  Right?
• 16:06
  I think we don't do that.
• 16:08
  We, we, we, we follow our taste buds, and we hope that some kind of innate intelligence
• 16:14
  is leading our taste buds to crave the things, but the reality is, is, is you and I can
• 16:18
  agree, our microbiome is deciding what are, what sounds good, you know, so we're getting
• 16:23
  a microbiome signal that's saying, hey, we'd love more of this, which usually is something
• 16:27
  garbagey that we've had it before, which, which just leads to these huge nutritional gaps
• 16:33
  in the way we eat.
• 16:35
  Yeah, we eat plenty of food.
• 16:36
  We don't get plenty of nutrients.
• 16:38
  And, and even more so, I just had a regenerative farmer on the podcast last week.
• 16:45
  His name is Bob Jones.
• 16:46
  He runs a regenerative farm up in, in, um, Ohio of all places.
• 16:52
  And while talking to him, I'm like, Bob, talk to me like, because here's my thing, like
• 16:56
  even if I were to eat according to everything you tell me, carrots are not what carrots used
• 17:02
  to be.
• 17:03
  Tomatoes are not what tomatoes used to be and going down the street to the public and picking
• 17:08
  up a bunch of carrots out of a plastic bag that have been bleached down to be the perfect
• 17:13
  shade of orange.
• 17:14
  Exactly.
• 17:15
  Like, that's not the nutritional value of what, what the RDA is saying should actually be
• 17:22
  in a carrot.
• 17:23
  Well, yeah.
• 17:24
  Well, another way of saying that, I'll use, extend the magnesium example.
• 17:26
  I mean, you can eat the same fresh vegetables and fruits and nuts that, um, 100 years ago,
• 17:34
  people were eating.
• 17:35
  And back then, they were giving like 500 milligrams a day of magnesium, right?
• 17:38
  People will amount, you know, today, you're probably going to get two to maybe 300 milligrams
• 17:44
  of that.
• 17:45
  How do they exact same grocery bag?
• 17:46
  Yeah, essentially.
• 17:47
  Yeah.
• 17:48
  I mean, exactly.
• 17:49
  And it's just, I'm sure as Bob, you know, explains just the quality of the soil and, you
• 17:54
  know, you know, nutrient, mineral depleted and all that type of, um, you know, those factors
• 18:01
  and as a result, um, I think supplements are probably more important now that they
• 18:06
  ever have been.
• 18:07
  I agree with you, which is, which kind of why I bring that up because I mean, the conversation
• 18:11
  I had with him, I mean, we talked about soil depletion and the, the necessity of cover
• 18:16
  crop and remineralizing the soil because if you plant one vegetable on a land, it actually
• 18:22
  fixes the mineral depletion from the other one that you planted last year, kind of stuff,
• 18:26
  right?
• 18:27
  This whole, you know, rotating crops.
• 18:29
  Um, but one of the things that even came up with him, I asked him, I'm like, but what
• 18:32
  about this whole transportation?
• 18:34
  You know, and he's like, well, yep, they actually estimate that for every week that a vegetable
• 18:42
  is out of the ground, it loses 10% of its nutritional value.
• 18:46
  And I was like, well, that's kind of an interesting statistic because then I'm like, wait a minute,
• 18:51
  if we're getting our, you know, a lot of our farming from overseas, you know, is where
• 18:56
  we're getting a lot of agricultural products.
• 18:59
  How long is the average amount of time and he's like eight to 12 weeks, you know, which
• 19:06
  means not only are we spraying things so that they last this long and it's like, but then
• 19:11
  you've got this 10%, you know, so you lose 10% then the next one you lose 10% of the 90%
• 19:16
  so now you're down 9%, now you're, now you're down 8.9% like, and it's like all of this
• 19:21
  starts adding up by the time you're actually getting the product, it's so different than
• 19:26
  if you went and pulled it out of the ground and it's not, I live in a high rise building.
• 19:30
  So it's like the idea of starting my own garden is probably a little loose and wild for
• 19:34
  me to even pretend, but, but the reality is like, the quality of the food we're getting,
• 19:40
  sucks.
• 19:41
  Yeah, the transportation is causing depletion of its nutrients over time.
• 19:47
  Chemicals, GMOs, glyphosates, like organic this and organic that and it's like, but
• 19:54
  even organic stuff doesn't necessarily do the job.
• 19:57
  No, it's, I mean, there's, as you said, multiple, you know, when you said 8 to 12 weeks
• 20:02
  or 8 to 10 weeks, I thought you're going to say three to five weeks and they were expected
• 20:06
  to be that long, which is just an unbelievable time frame.
• 20:12
  And the other challenge is the food doesn't taste as good.
• 20:15
  Right.
• 20:16
  Well, we, I was at a conference where he was and we did the podcast there and it's like,
• 20:20
  they made the salads that night for the dinner out of all of the stuff that he did.
• 20:26
  And it was like, this salad was out of this world.
• 20:29
  Well, I can eat this every night.
• 20:31
  And we didn't even know that's where the vegetables came from.
• 20:34
  Some, the, our table was like, oh my gosh, these tomatoes are amazing.
• 20:38
  And somebody ended up tipping us off that this was all the stuff that he brought and we're
• 20:43
  like, oh my gosh, like, this is the difference, right?
• 20:47
  And I do get down to the nutritional stuff of farmer's markets and open air markets
• 20:52
  and buying local and these types of things.
• 20:55
  And he made a comment he'd given a talk at this conference also.
• 21:00
  And one of the conversation, one of the things he said, he said, if you're going to buy
• 21:07
  from a local farmer, he goes, I challenge you, go find a local farmer.
• 21:13
  If within two weeks of you going to the farmer's market and talking to the people that are selling
• 21:20
  product, if in two weeks, three weeks top, they haven't invited you to come see the farm
• 21:26
  find a new vendor.
• 21:28
  Interesting.
• 21:28
  And I was like, that's kind of, I never would have thought of that.
• 21:31
  Like, I mean, I'm pretty clever, but that one never crossed my mind.
• 21:34
  I was like, that's kind of interesting.
• 21:35
  He's like, because if they're doing what they say they're doing, they want to show it off.
• 21:40
  Absolutely.
• 21:41
  And that's kind of like us, I mean, it's where I was going to go.
• 21:45
  No, I mean, you know, and just tie back how we got into the business to where the world
• 21:51
  exists today is.
• 21:52
  As I said, we got it because we had concerns about trust, we had concerns about reliability
• 21:57
  of information, we had concerns, we didn't know what to buy in terms of all the options
• 22:01
  out there, how to make good decisions, some listeners may be saying, I have those issues
• 22:07
  today.
• 22:08
  Yeah, exactly.
• 22:10
  23 years.
• 22:11
  And it's true.
• 22:12
  There's no question about it.
• 22:14
  What's good?
• 22:15
  Let's start the good first is there are many more quality brands today, some ones, then
• 22:21
  they were back then.
• 22:23
  Unquestionable.
• 22:24
  There is much better research supporting different ingredients.
• 22:28
  I mean, light years more.
• 22:30
  Yeah.
• 22:31
  I mean, if we had one human, you know, see about controlled study on a new chain back
• 22:35
  that we were like drilled, you know, now, you know, I want to see four or five, right?
• 22:42
  So that's the good news.
• 22:44
  So you have many more good brands, but you have many, many more bad brands, okay, who
• 22:50
  are doing this for the wrong reasons.
• 22:54
  And they don't have your interested heart.
• 22:56
  They really are just trying to, let's face it, trying to make a good dollar.
• 22:59
  I mean, that's all they're trying to do, you know, and the one thing about the self
• 23:02
  from business despite, I mean, people say it's an unregulated business.
• 23:06
  It's not unregulated.
• 23:07
  It's a great quote, I don't know if I can remember off the top of my head, doesn't require
• 23:13
  an FDA approval.
• 23:15
  You don't need a pre-market approval right now.
• 23:18
  It's actually probably almost overregulated food business, okay, I could see that, right?
• 23:26
  So we have plenty of regulation, but bad actors just find ways to get around the regulations.
• 23:34
  You tell me anything you think is protecting you, third party in the pen test, you name
• 23:40
  it.
• 23:41
  I'll say here's how they can get around that really easily, okay?
• 23:44
  So one of the things, you know, I'm doing a series on my own podcast of tips for buying
• 23:51
  supplements, okay, and it's, look, and I don't care if you buy from Nature City or I just
• 23:55
  don't want you to waste your money or put something in your body that harm you, you know?
• 23:59
  Yeah, and not even harm you, I just want to do what you think it should, right?
• 24:02
  I mean, yes, harm be really, really terrible.
• 24:07
  And there's really three things, and we could talk about each and a little bit if you
• 24:10
  could be like, you got to look for branded ingredients versus generic ingredients, okay,
• 24:14
  we could talk about why that's important.
• 24:16
  You really need to know who the manufacturer is, okay, they're the hidden heroes in this
• 24:20
  process, okay?
• 24:21
  They're kind of the middle person between, you know, you got the ingredients, you got
• 24:25
  the brand, making the final product, what's going on at the manufacturing level is really,
• 24:30
  really important.
• 24:31
  They're talking the manufacturing of the ingredients, or are you talking the manufacturing
• 24:34
  of like the co-packer that's actually bottling or what not?
• 24:38
  Yeah, so it's probably.
• 24:40
  Well, it is both.
• 24:42
  So at the ingredient level, we have concerns, we need to be wary of, and then there is,
• 24:48
  as you say, the manufacturing, the contract manufacturing level.
• 24:52
  Supplement companies don't make their own due to their manufacturing, okay, including
• 24:58
  that you're setting.
• 24:59
  That's simply because of very, very specialized and regular business, and you focus on what
• 25:04
  you're good at.
• 25:08
  So you have different levels of manufacturers, you have the premium quality ones, which
• 25:12
  we try to use, you have people who are generally okay, but maybe have limited in-house know-how,
• 25:19
  maybe aren't going to spot problems as well, because problems do come up, and then you
• 25:23
  just have people who, I wouldn't trust anything, they're making, to be frank, or candid.
• 25:29
  So you have that level, and then, so you have your brand ingredients, you have the manufacturers
• 25:33
  that you need to understand who's manufacturing the product, and then you really have to
• 25:36
  examine the brand itself, okay, and why are, why are you doing this?
• 25:42
  So yes, I want to stop there real quick, because one of the things that you're saying
• 25:46
  there is like, you need to question the brand itself, and I believe as a marketer that
• 25:53
  one of the most important things in our world today, particularly with the social media,
• 25:57
  like everybody's everything is available to everyone at all times, and people believe
• 26:03
  that they're actually buying from something or someone that has nothing to do with the
• 26:08
  person that they're talking about.
• 26:10
  So Kim Kardashian puts her name on something, and everybody flocks and buys whatever Kim did,
• 26:15
  and it's like the truth of matter is, and this is no offense to Kim, because I would probably
• 26:19
  do the same thing to be honest with you, is her name goes on the highest bidders product.
• 26:26
  If someone's willing to pay 1 million, and someone's willing to pay 5, guess who's product
• 26:30
  is getting endorsed, right?
• 26:31
  Our brand is a marketing company, it's a marketing company, it's not a health company.
• 26:35
  She's a marketing company.
• 26:36
  Again, no offense to what she's doing, no offense, more power to her, but the truth of matter
• 26:41
  is that people think they're buying because of relationship, when in fact that's not
• 26:47
  a relationship at all, they don't have a relationship with her, she barely has a relationship
• 26:51
  with the company that's making the product, and then the consumer thinks they have a relationship
• 26:55
  with the product.
• 26:56
  It's like nobody has a relationship here, folks, like nobody, but one of the things that
• 27:01
  I respect about brands like Nature City specifically is this is not a celebrity frontman, this
• 27:07
  is not a contract manufacturer out of China, this is literally a husband and wife, you
• 27:15
  use the tagline, if we won't make it, if we wouldn't take it, and it's like you're
• 27:20
  only going to give to other people what you'd be willing to take yourself, which I respect
• 27:25
  tremendously.
• 27:28
  How does that work into the relationship building that you guys try to do with your brand?
• 27:32
  Because that's the trust factor, just going to be honest.
• 27:35
  If I trust you, I trust that all of these other things are taking place.
• 27:40
  Because in relationship, I don't question all these details, I have a relationship, and
• 27:44
  I trust that these things are taking place anyway.
• 27:47
  To me, that's the top of all of these other things, is the relationship?
• 27:53
  How do you see your brand having a relationship with people?
• 27:58
  Well, yeah, now you're really getting into the meat of it all, and we really have never
• 28:07
  changed the principles that we really founded with, and part of that is just transparency.
• 28:15
  We're proud of the ingredients we have in our products.
• 28:17
  We want you to know what's in there and how much you're getting, and it's really important.
• 28:22
  Because beyond just you to consumer, especially as you get older, and people have, you know,
• 28:29
  taking prescription products or other things, you're a doctor, and you need to understand
• 28:33
  what's in these products, too.
• 28:36
  One of my biggest pet peeves in the business is these labels with proprietary blends, where
• 28:48
  they join like 10 ingredients together, they call it proprietary blend, and they'll give
• 28:55
  you the total amount of the blend, but that you have no idea how much of the ingredients
• 28:59
  you're getting.
• 29:00
  Well, and it's their way of trying to protect their IP, but in fact, it isn't transparency
• 29:04
  to a consumer.
• 29:05
  You're not protecting anything.
• 29:07
  Look, if they're doing, I could do a lab test, if you're at what's in the product, just
• 29:13
  like they claim they do, because that's the thing, too, say, oh, yeah, third party tested,
• 29:18
  well, like what did the third party test, you know, if they could do it, I can do it,
• 29:23
  I can test your product, too.
• 29:25
  So that's, to me, that's a baloney, you know, I mean, if you have real IP and you patented
• 29:30
  your formulation, okay, great, that's your protection.
• 29:33
  But don't give me this proprietary blend, it's helping me, and by the way, no one's ever
• 29:38
  tested these blends to see, in most cases, I don't like, two words I don't like to use
• 29:43
  or always a never, right?
• 29:45
  Right, never use those.
• 29:46
  Right.
• 29:47
  Exactly.
• 29:48
  Good job.
• 29:49
  But, I mean, what's happening with these proprietary blends is people are just trying
• 29:54
  to hide something from you, either try and dress it up and say, wow, it has, to Merrick,
• 30:00
  it has this, it has that, it has always different things in there, yeah, I heard about these
• 30:04
  things, these are, this must be a great supplement, but you have no idea if you're getting
• 30:08
  one milligram or 100 milligrams or a thousand, you just don't know, and we, we always commit
• 30:14
  we're never going to do that, let's, everything separately, exactly what you're getting, and
• 30:21
  we always commit to using the same amount in our products and a daily dosage that was used
• 30:28
  in scientific published research, okay, so if something was found to work in 500 milligrams,
• 30:34
  we're not going to give you 40, you know?
• 30:36
  Well, and Lee, well, you're not going to give me 600, either.
• 30:39
  Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, exactly, I mean, that's one of the things you have to
• 30:43
  be conscious of, I had this discussion with a client, a potential client the other day,
• 30:50
  especially when it comes to things like minerals, too little is bad, too much can be bad too,
• 30:55
  yeah, okay, and this discussion was about a mineral in particular and AI is, you know,
• 31:04
  we love AI, we hate AI, but Jim and I are rock told in that, you know, he did this much
• 31:11
  of this mineral, the support is, you know, hair, hair health or whatever, and I said, well,
• 31:20
  and of course, yeah, I did, of course, said, look, the clinical studies on this is really
• 31:24
  scant and it's not much, they did kind of qualify the recommendation of it.
• 31:32
  So I'm like, look, what you're talking about is probably about 10 times the average daily
• 31:37
  intake you can get, okay, so that's one thing you have to be very careful, right?
• 31:42
  Especially when it comes to mineral, I said, look, in July, we just had a study published
• 31:47
  with the exact same ingredient we're using at the dosage we use, okay, you don't need
• 31:53
  these hundreds of milligrams that, hey, I told you, you know, you need through their quick
• 31:58
  whatever query, you know, here's the research.
• 32:03
  And so it's hard, it's really, really hard to figure out, well, who do I trust?
• 32:09
  You know, I figured, oh, AI is, look at this answer, it's great, you know, I had another
• 32:12
  AI inquiry who told this woman that one of our supplements is going to interfere with
• 32:21
  her birth control.
• 32:24
  And I was like, what?
• 32:26
  So I had to go through that whole process, like debunking that and why they're, you know,
• 32:32
  why that wasn't really going to happen.
• 32:34
  It's just, so look, even in the age of modern technology, good information is a challenge
• 32:41
  for consumers.
• 32:42
  Well, and here's, and I'm going to say AI is giving people a false sense of security in
• 32:46
  some ways.
• 32:47
  And I mean, well, some people are super skeptical about it and have absolutely no idea,
• 32:51
  you know, about it.
• 32:53
  There's also this, I'm going to say false sense of security, because a lot of people
• 32:56
  think that now that they have AI, they don't need anything or anyone else.
• 32:59
  And the, I mean, that sounds a little too existential, but the idea, like, you know, well,
• 33:05
  what is my doctor know that I can't go find out?
• 33:07
  And it's like, well, a good doctor is going to know how to take what you just found out
• 33:11
  and help you interpret it or debunk it.
• 33:14
  Because one of the conversations I have with my team all the time is that I love that
• 33:18
  you're using AI because that will speed up your process, but it could also just speed
• 33:24
  you up to a mistake.
• 33:26
  Like the humans have to be able to identify the mistakes and say, is this accurate?
• 33:31
  Is this not accurate?
• 33:34
  And do I believe it anyways?
• 33:36
  Because there is no single source of truth for this stuff.
• 33:39
  Like it, there's pulling on disparate type things.
• 33:43
  There is.
• 33:44
  And it's summarizing something in two paragraphs that really needs two pages, you know,
• 33:47
  it's really fully, it's fully, it's fully, it's fully, it's fully, it's a beautiful
• 33:51
  context.
• 33:52
  Well, I'll give you an example.
• 33:53
  Like, so I keep a list of everything I take on a daily basis, because you know, I'm
• 33:57
  a supplement whore and like, I've got 75 different things on the list, but I categorize
• 34:02
  all of mine.
• 34:03
  Like, these are essential food supplementation and these are for performance and these
• 34:06
  are for antioxidation and these are for longevity.
• 34:09
  Like, I've got them categorized, but I will use AI because I will actually take everything
• 34:14
  that I'm using on a regular basis and be like, here's my latest lab work.
• 34:19
  Here's the list of supplements I take.
• 34:22
  Tell me if I'm seeing something.
• 34:24
  I actually talked to you about this because I ordered a bunch more products from Nature
• 34:28
  City and was like, okay, I'm short on this.
• 34:30
  It's telling me I need this.
• 34:32
  And I'm like, that's a great use of AI because when I looked and you mentioned K2 earlier,
• 34:38
  and by the way, I love your product, D3K2, which we can talk about a minute later.
• 34:44
  But the reason is is because there's this big pandemic of nobody gets enough vitamin D and
• 34:49
  nobody gets enough vitamin D, then we end up people who are really, it's almost everybody.
• 34:56
  It's nearly everybody in Florida, so maybe not as bad, but, but for me, I know that.
• 35:01
  Yeah, exactly.
• 35:02
  I'm me right now too.
• 35:03
  But we get people who are like, well, I'm going to go take vitamin D. I'm going to go
• 35:06
  take vitamin D.
• 35:07
  And they have no idea that there's multiple different types of vitamin D and that the
• 35:10
  sun covers it all, but if you're supplementing with vitamin D, that's great.
• 35:15
  But this whole idea that K2 is what's actually causing the vitamin D absorption.
• 35:19
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  So you get people that are taking all this vitamin D and they don't realize that it's
• 35:24
  only effective in the presence of something else.
• 35:29
  And which is why I mentioned the D3K2 because D3 is where most people are deficient.
• 35:34
  But D3 absorption is only going to take place in the presence of K2, which K2 is, sports
• 35:40
  liver function.
• 35:41
  So it's really a function of that.
• 35:43
  You mentioned earlier, people aren't getting enough, you know, K2 out of a regular diet,
• 35:47
  it's because people don't eat liver for dinner anymore.
• 35:49
  No, you're not eating natto and, you know, a lot of fermented vegetables, which is really
• 35:54
  where you're going to get your K2 from.
• 35:56
  So, you know, again, that's why, and K2, I mean, we could talk about it a little bit if
• 36:01
  you want.
• 36:02
  It is one of my, and one of these is we put K2 and D3 together and not only do they work
• 36:08
  in the body together in certain really important ways, they're both nearly impossible to get
• 36:16
  colon organically, either from food or sunlight exposure.
• 36:19
  So, so it really makes, that's one, if you really, again, you're looking for a supplement
• 36:24
  that you're not taking, you should take, really consider that, you know, K2, D3 because
• 36:30
  there is just, I mean, we're only, you know, to use a baseball analogy where maybe like
• 36:35
  in a top of a second inning, understanding how those two work together, those vitamins
• 36:39
  work together.
• 36:40
  And it's really, really interesting to work that's being done.
• 36:43
  I think over the next 10 years, we're going to learn a lot more, but I found out I had
• 36:47
  too much K2, so you're going to find X, like backwards, but again, good use of AI.
• 36:52
  Yeah.
• 36:53
  I actually was uploading all of my information into my health bot that I've got programmed
• 36:59
  up.
• 37:00
  Here's my supplements, here's the this, so on, so forth.
• 37:03
  And it actually picked up two things that I didn't notice, which I thought was interesting,
• 37:08
  because there are things I know, so I knew whether or not this was good or not.
• 37:13
  But for instance, K2, I take three different supplements that all contain K2.
• 37:20
  And one of them is straight up vitamin K2 out of like D3, K2.
• 37:25
  Another one is actually a detox product that uses desiccated beef liver as its form of
• 37:32
  K2, which I'm a fan of.
• 37:34
  The other one I started taking was, I can't think of his name.
• 37:37
  He owns the company bone and hearth, Paul, I can never say it correctly.
• 37:42
  Saladino, who I'm thinking, he owns heart, soil, I think is the name of the brand, but
• 37:47
  it, again, it's, it's bone, it's, it's organic, you know, like, like animal organs in supplements
• 37:56
  and stuff.
• 37:57
  And I'm like, okay, that's great.
• 37:58
  Organs often.
• 38:00
  So that's something that I need to supplement for that, because I know that increases organic
• 38:04
  tissue growth and whatnot.
• 38:05
  So anyways, it was like, you've got too much vitamin K, and that could actually cause
• 38:11
  you liver function problems.
• 38:12
  And I'm like, oh, wow, like I never even connected that because they're labeled all different
• 38:17
  things, because one is organic beef organs.
• 38:21
  Do they actually tell you how much K2 is in the product or no?
• 38:24
  So it doesn't tell me how much K2 is specifically in the product, but because it's beef organs.
• 38:30
  And it's the other two also had a K2.
• 38:32
  It was like, careful of your liver function.
• 38:34
  And the other one, which I'm going to crazy say, me of all people didn't catch, because
• 38:40
  I'm so careful about this stuff, was I was taking like three or four different supplements
• 38:44
  that all had a vitamin A additive.
• 38:49
  And again, what sounds wrong about vitamin A, well, I know this, you know this, too much
• 38:55
  vitamin A, I'll just stop your heart.
• 38:58
  And people may not realize that.
• 39:00
  So when I'm dealing with someone who comes to me, because you get it all the time, what
• 39:04
  should I be taking?
• 39:06
  Like I know nothing about your health history, and I'm in no way in a position that there's
• 39:11
  some things that I think everybody could take and be fine.
• 39:16
  But I'm probably going to give you more coaching on lifestyle changes before I'm going
• 39:19
  to go hand to you supplement results without knowing what you're trying to do.
• 39:24
  Some things like bone health, sure, people are going to struggle with bone health as the
• 39:30
  age for multiple reasons, support that, like digestion, digestive support.
• 39:37
  Well, I know if I'm having problems with that, right, I don't need a lab test to tell
• 39:41
  me that I'm having problems with digestion, I can feel that it affects my life.
• 39:46
  Those are easy things that you can target into for people to use this.
• 39:50
  But general vitamin, mineral type stuff, AI is causing, to me anyways, it's causing some
• 39:57
  danger zones, because it's not asking the questions, it's going off of what you're telling
• 40:03
  it.
• 40:04
  No, it is.
• 40:05
  I mean, okay, it's going to get better.
• 40:07
  Sure.
• 40:08
  You know, let's go ahead and start asking hopefully better questions and considering things.
• 40:13
  You hit on something with the vitamin K2 thing, obviously you're taking a serving of hours,
• 40:19
  you know, each serving has 90 micrograms of K2, you know, when it's not clearly stated
• 40:25
  on some of these other things, you don't know if it's 10 micrograms or 150 micrograms.
• 40:31
  And that's where I'm saying the transparency really matters, okay, because you can, like
• 40:37
  we said before, too little something is bad or can be bad, too much, can also be problematic,
• 40:44
  right?
• 40:45
  So, you know, it's really, it's really, really important and, you know, it's, it's funny,
• 40:49
  it brings up another point like when someone talks about calcium intake, the RDA is 1,200
• 40:54
  micrograms.
• 40:55
  So I need a supplement with 1,200 micrograms, no, you know, because you, you know, that's
• 40:59
  the RDA from the foods together, right?
• 41:03
  The RDA of, you know, have to add together.
• 41:05
  So I mean, average person gets 7,800 micrograms of calcium from diet, less if you don't
• 41:12
  eat dairy probably.
• 41:15
  So you know, you're not trying to breed just 1,200 microgram gap at that point, right?
• 41:20
  Okay.
• 41:21
  So you don't get a supplemental to your diet supplement.
• 41:23
  It's a supplement, exactly, it's really important.
• 41:26
  And so, you know, you have these things, a little time which we try to do our best to help
• 41:30
  customers with and yeah, that's a big part.
• 41:33
  You get back to what maybe we tried to do differently.
• 41:37
  So you have your transparency.
• 41:40
  You have obviously the ingredient side of things where we only focus on the brand, you
• 41:45
  know, the brand, we call it branded scientifically studied ingredients, which have published
• 41:50
  the book.
• 41:51
  You know, you know, blind, you know, placebo controlled studies that knowing, show what
• 41:58
  the supplement ingredient can do, what's the appropriate dosage.
• 42:02
  And that's important highlights any cautions or concerns from a safety perspective.
• 42:07
  Okay.
• 42:08
  That's one of the other advantages of the, again, the industry, the branded ingredients versus
• 42:16
  just a generic ingredient is there is a lot better safety and toxicology data usually
• 42:23
  associated with that particular ingredient than you're not going to have any of that.
• 42:27
  Which is what a generic ingredient you buy from some distributor somewhere.
• 42:31
  So you know, from both an efficacy and safety standpoint, that's why we always on pretty
• 42:37
  much only use these branded ingredients for you won't see generic ingredients on our,
• 42:42
  and we can go into more depth on that if you care to.
• 42:45
  So you have that aspect of it, you have the transparency aspect of it.
• 42:50
  And then it really gets to things like, hey, what about the people themselves running
• 42:57
  this company?
• 42:58
  Yeah.
• 42:59
  What's the relationship?
• 43:00
  What are you doing it?
• 43:01
  You know, and one of the things we really try to do is not only, as you said, put the
• 43:06
  get a product where if we won't take it, we don't make it because, you know, we treat
• 43:11
  every client, every customer as an extended part of our family, right?
• 43:16
  So I'm not going to give my family something I wouldn't take, and I'm not going to do
• 43:20
  that to any of the people who I don't know, but it's still part of my extended family,
• 43:24
  right?
• 43:25
  And that's, that's really, I think about it every day.
• 43:27
  And, um, or she said, we think about it every day.
• 43:30
  Now, and here's the other thing about all this, okay, is a lot of brands start out doing
• 43:39
  the right thing, and maybe something gets in the way of that.
• 43:42
  So to have some success, investor comes in, or a company sold to a private equity company,
• 43:51
  and motivations change, right?
• 43:54
  Sure.
• 43:55
  So I'm sure you could probably think a couple brands off the top of your head learn things
• 43:59
  just changed.
• 44:00
  Quality changes, you know, the spreadsheet says, look, we could buy this substitute ingredient
• 44:04
  for 30% less.
• 44:05
  Look at the margin.
• 44:06
  What happens?
• 44:07
  So, you know, we make so much more money, things change, okay?
• 44:09
  So it's not, it's always important to know why that brand exists, who are the people
• 44:15
  running it?
• 44:17
  And what's their motivations, you know, you know, um, you know, motivation is some day
• 44:21
  one, sure, we want to earn a living and we have, um, but really, we want to help people,
• 44:26
  you know, and part is knowing, making good products, but communicating to them, you know,
• 44:31
  things like we're talking about today, what, what makes something good, what makes something
• 44:34
  bad, what do you have to be careful about, you know?
• 44:37
  And, um, you know, I think that's, um, you know, the educational part of us and the
• 44:43
  informational part is really, really important to us.
• 44:46
  I think one of the things that I love most about a brand, I'm going to say Nature City,
• 44:51
  but like Nature City, truthfully, because there's a lot of different companies like that
• 44:54
  and I want to draw that universal truth is, is brands like a Nature City, 23 years, same
• 45:01
  owner, you didn't flip into a new venture capital thing.
• 45:04
  There's been no change of philosophy.
• 45:07
  There's no change of anything like that, um, and, and it really, it personalizes the brand.
• 45:13
  Um, people ask all the time, like, I get the questions, well, I can just run them
• 45:17
  and grab this one at CVS and I'm like, ah, CVS, what are you doing, like, because it's
• 45:21
  a profit thing.
• 45:22
  I mean, it really becomes like, we'll use a lower whatever.
• 45:24
  It's a money game.
• 45:25
  You got to hit X times costs this, and it's just, there's wrong, you know, wrong things
• 45:30
  are driving the decisions, you know, and, and it may start out one way, but it changes.
• 45:36
  And I've been on, like I said, I started out, and I started out in this business.
• 45:39
  I know exactly what happened.
• 45:41
  Well, I've got a friend who runs a company that does organic tooth powder.
• 45:44
  Yeah.
• 45:45
  And I've always used this product because it's great at toothpaste, it's no fluoride,
• 45:49
  it's whatever.
• 45:50
  And it's like, I ran into her at a conference recently and I was like, Trina, like
• 45:54
  blah, blah, blah.
• 45:55
  And, you know, she's, and I'm like, how is it going?
• 45:57
  And she's like, well, I sold the company.
• 45:59
  I'm like, what do you mean?
• 46:00
  Well, yeah, I'm sold the company.
• 46:01
  Now I'm, now I'm in this lawsuit with the company because my name is still associated.
• 46:06
  Yeah, no, Trina.
• 46:07
  But they've went and changed all the ingredients for, for this.
• 46:12
  And now it feels like I'm peddling a less or something because it's now a different company.
• 46:17
  And, and the trust goes away.
• 46:20
  And people don't know that stuff.
• 46:22
  It is transprime.
• 46:23
  Prime example.
• 46:24
  Prime example right there.
• 46:25
  Right.
• 46:26
  Not necessarily a supplement, but it's still a health product.
• 46:29
  And, and at the same time, I'll say, when, when I pick a doctor, I don't just randomly
• 46:35
  pick a doctor.
• 46:36
  I pick a doctor who I vibe with, who I have relationship with, who I believe I have
• 46:40
  a good trust factor with.
• 46:42
  When I pick a lawyer, I do the same thing like, but then we go by supplements.
• 46:46
  And when we just buy them from whoever's on Amazon or you, you know, or you pick, you
• 46:50
  know, this label looks pretty, they must have, you know, they must really have their
• 46:53
  act together.
• 46:54
  Well, the thing is, like, people will spend so much time, you know, buying the exact
• 46:58
  perfect skincare and, you know, and formulating these new companies that will help you formulate
• 47:03
  your own shampoos and like, and all this other kind of stuff because they're just, they're
• 47:08
  pretty specific and picky about some of this stuff.
• 47:11
  Like, women with makeup and like, you would never tell your wife to just run up to CVS and
• 47:17
  grab some makeup, right?
• 47:18
  Like, please.
• 47:19
  She's stab you.
• 47:20
  Oh my goodness.
• 47:22
  But, but when it comes to supplements, we just go on Amazon and scroll and the one that
• 47:26
  says, you know, recommended best seller, we click and we'll take and start swallowing
• 47:31
  it and putting it inside our body.
• 47:32
  Correct.
• 47:33
  Right.
• 47:34
  It's kind of crazy.
• 47:35
  It's crazy because it doesn't make sense to me that people would do that and not try
• 47:38
  to build a relationship with the person who's literally keeping them away from the doctor
• 47:44
  if health goes right.
• 47:45
  No, it's, it's, it's looking, that's what we try to approach it.
• 47:49
  I want to say, like, we're looking for people who are serious about them's, you know, they're
• 47:54
  health.
• 47:55
  I mean, I don't want to say anyone's not being serious, but you're maybe a little more
• 48:02
  discreet or, you know, it's a correct term I'm looking for, you know, someone who wants
• 48:07
  to take the extra time to understand what quality means.
• 48:11
  Well, I want to say, like, you're willing to have the conversations with people who want
• 48:15
  to know more, which I love, I love how connected you guys are with your own customer service.
• 48:19
  But, but even one dip deeper than that, I would say for the person who isn't as attached,
• 48:25
  at least find someone who's looking out for you if you're not doing the research.
• 48:29
  You know, I want to read this to you because this customer left this review last week on
• 48:34
  the company that I couldn't have written it better myself and this is the reason we kind
• 48:40
  of get up every day and it says it's from Pat, I don't know if it's Patricia or Patrick,
• 48:48
  but it's as glad I found nature city.
• 48:52
  Excellent formulations at a great price, informative podcasts and sales make it possible
• 49:00
  to afford good supplements, you know, to choosing afford good supplements, to learn about
• 49:07
  and afford good supplements, sorry, my phone cut off there.
• 49:10
  So that really is, was that summarized what we're about, you know, we want, we're going
• 49:16
  to make good formulations, we're going to make, you know, great products, explain why
• 49:23
  they're good, try to present them at the best value we can and I think you're going to,
• 49:33
  you're going to enjoy the experience, that's what we want.
• 49:35
  I love that and by the way, reading that, we're going to go back and record that again
• 49:39
  because I want you to have that take for you to use for your own social media needs
• 49:44
  because like reading that review is powerful, like that's the type of stuff that we
• 49:50
  can sit here and talk all day, but Pat, Pat wasn't paid to do that, like that's just
• 49:54
  Pat leaving a real review, those are real people really speaking and I think that's powerful
• 49:59
  for you Carl.
• 50:00
  I said something a minute ago about they just go to Amazon and they go order crap from
• 50:04
  China and it all comes over, right?
• 50:05
  So I'm not, first of all, I want to not say that things that you buy in Amazon are bad
• 50:08
  because a lot of great companies have great businesses running on Amazon, but I'm curious
• 50:13
  if you can speak to lately there's been, I was watching the news the other day and there
• 50:17
  was a commercial and it was, I think it was actually a supplement company, I don't remember
• 50:22
  which one, but it was, it was a company that was like, look, if you bought our product
• 50:26
  for less than X dollars, you got scanned and there are companies on Amazon pretending
• 50:34
  they're us putting a label on that looks like us putting crap in a bottle and you think
• 50:40
  it's us and it's not us.
• 50:42
  If you buy from us, this is our price order now and if you have any of that other stuff
• 50:47
  in your cupboard, throw it away and I was like, that was a weird way to spend a television
• 50:53
  ad dollar and it made me start thinking though because I'm like, I hear about these things
• 50:58
  all the time.
• 50:59
  My dad actually works with a company that has gotten knocked off by an Amazon thing and
• 51:03
  fighting with Amazon to get stuff removed is like fighting city hall, maybe worse.
• 51:10
  And it's like, what do you see out there?
• 51:12
  Because that to me is a huge, huge problem because I don't know what's in these things
• 51:17
  and it's like, I'm not just going to take supplements that I don't understand and here's
• 51:22
  the crazy thing because I would probably go to a carnival and eat an elephant here and
• 51:25
  have no idea what's in there either, but I don't worry about that for some reason.
• 51:29
  But with the supplements that are coming over from China, from other places, not necessarily
• 51:34
  China, but they're being sold, they're counterfeits.
• 51:37
  Yeah, so a lot to unpack there, all which again, kind of pepies of mine.
• 51:45
  So on the counterfeit issue, this is why in terms of a solution, I recommend people only
• 51:52
  buy, if you're going to buy an Amazon, buy directly from the brand's store, right?
• 51:57
  Agreed. Or just buy from their website, okay?
• 52:01
  When you start buying from resellers, that's when you put yourself at risk and it does happen,
• 52:06
  especially popular products. People can very easily just recreate the label, the look,
• 52:13
  the bottle, and put who knows what inside the bottle and sell it, and so sometimes it's not even
• 52:21
  a price thing, it's just the brand may be sold out on its own store.
• 52:27
  This guy has product, I'm going to buy, has this product going to buy from him.
• 52:30
  So only on Nature City, only one selling Nature City products on the Amazon,
• 52:37
  because we're registered brand on Amazon, and we know, so anytime we see someone else selling
• 52:42
  in Nature City product, we can get taken down pretty quickly because of the registered brand status.
• 52:49
  But gigantic issue, and that's why I say, you're the wife in the registered brand on Amazon,
• 52:56
  or buy directly from the company's website to ensure you can deal with the counterfeit issue.
• 53:01
  So that's one issue, as we talk about Amazon or other similar platforms, I don't want to just
• 53:06
  bang on Amazon all day. International products meet internationally, China, elsewhere, gigantic issue.
• 53:19
  Most of the products I'll tip my hat to want to other supplement companies of business,
• 53:24
  now food, they've been doing a lot of testing of products they purchase on Amazon,
• 53:29
  they'll take like a bunch of astasanthin products, a bunch of coq10 products, you know, just,
• 53:34
  and many of them are not just, you know, don't meet label claims in terms of content and nutrients,
• 53:43
  or even, yeah, or the specs of the nutrient, they don't even close work. I mean, you know,
• 53:49
  if they still say 100 milligrams a meter, there's two. I mean, it's like why put the two in there,
• 53:54
  I guess, so you can just claim it's not totally forged on the ingredients in there, but
• 54:00
  huge, huge issue. And this is really probably the majority of supplements that are sold that they've
• 54:05
  tested, okay? And, you know, I've done it now like five, six times across different product
• 54:11
  categories are ingredient types, and it's been some of a result. It's really, that's scared,
• 54:17
  scared the heck out of me. I mean, I knew things were bad when it came to fraudulent products.
• 54:21
  I didn't expect to be that bad. So, you really have to get to know the brand you're purchasing from,
• 54:29
  and wider in business, how they've been doing this, you know, what kind of guarantee they offer.
• 54:36
  You know, we look, we stand behind our products with a one year money back guarantee, okay?
• 54:42
  30 days is not, in most cases, enough time to evaluate if, you know, your satisfied with
• 54:48
  something, or it's really, you know, if it's doing what you want, all right? Some cases it may be,
• 54:52
  but in most cases, it's not, you know, we don't want you to worry about, you know,
• 54:56
  having whether you have to return the product or not. You got 365 days to do that.
• 55:01
  Use it, put it to a true test by multiple bottles, take advantage of some of our
• 55:05
  quantity discounts, and we'll be here to refund your money if you're really, if you're not satisfied.
• 55:10
  23 years later. How many times have you actually had to honor that 365 day guarantee?
• 55:16
  It's very, it's very, you know, the funny thing about that whole thing is we used to have like a
• 55:21
  60 day guarantee. I mean, I'm going back now, 28 pounds, 20 years, and you know, counting the part
• 55:27
  of everywhere was scared, you know, a lot of absolutely. Oh my god, you know, and I'm like, no, no,
• 55:35
  I'll return it when down. I just had a conversation with another client of mine recently,
• 55:41
  and they, they've got a device, the device company, and they've got a 30 day money back guarantee.
• 55:47
  And I'm like, and he's like, oh, I don't know, I'm like, well, you're running a black Friday sale.
• 55:50
  I'm like, so if you're running a 30 day guarantee, someone buys it in mid-November, doesn't even give
• 55:55
  it to somebody till the end of December, the 30 day money back guarantee is technically gone.
• 55:59
  I'm like, I think you need to consider doing something, whether that's 60, and it's like the looks
• 56:05
  on the on the Zoom call, we're like, oh, but if we give 60 days or 90 days, I'm like, dude,
• 56:11
  like, I have a company I work with that does a 365 day guarantee. I'm like, a year later,
• 56:20
  send it back. I'm like, and the thing is, is people will either return it the day it arrives,
• 56:24
  or they will return it at the very end of the window. I'm like, in fact, the longer you give a
• 56:28
  person to procrastinate, the less likely they are to ever even use it. It's just, you know,
• 56:35
  but you're so right, because even if it's not a gift, I mean, you order a product. I mean, a lot of
• 56:39
  things my wife probably ordering things in me, but, you know, it may sit there for five, six days
• 56:45
  before we even get around to opening it by time, you know, the weekend comes or whatever,
• 56:49
  and you know, it took us, it took us many five, six days to get it to us, another five, six days before
• 56:54
  we open it. We're already like, I mean, it's like, I live in a high rise. Sometimes I have to like
• 57:00
  take a grocery cart downstairs to throw all the boxes and to take them upstairs once a week.
• 57:04
  So, you know, we say, yeah, three days is enough time to build trust. So, no, you take your time.
• 57:11
  We're here if you want to return to black family. Like you would treat family. That was whole
• 57:15
  key to, you know, you know, Beth was big on this as well as as me is, look, we just want to treat
• 57:21
  people the way we like to be treated. Pretty simple, right? I mean, I'm just doing to others.
• 57:25
  Yeah, and that just makes the decision making really easy in that respect. You know, it's like,
• 57:29
  what would you, you know, if it was us, what would we do? Okay, that's what we're going to do.
• 57:32
  And so, you know, you know, from that, once you build that culture, you know, it's pretty good.
• 57:39
  I look, it doesn't mean, look, we probably sacrifice a lot of profit and a lot of sales.
• 57:46
  And we miss things and, you know, one of my biggest fears is picking up on something you were
• 57:50
  outlining early is like, geez, at some point we're going to have to retire. You know,
• 57:54
  where am I going to get my supplements from?
• 58:00
  That's actually really funny. That's funny.
• 58:02
  Carl, what's your favorite product of the nature city makes?
• 58:05
  That's like saying, who's your favorite child? My goodness.
• 58:08
  How you could probably pick that too? Yeah.
• 58:11
  Everybody knows who the thing is. Why is this going to be distributed now?
• 58:15
  So,
• 58:15
  I'm going to give you three. I can't give you one.
• 58:22
  All right. Give me three favorite nature city products.
• 58:26
  My three favorites currently. So good health is really, really hard if you can't sleep well.
• 58:35
  Right? Agreed.
• 58:36
  And not only does it, does it impair your health over time, it makes your days pretty miserable
• 58:45
  because you're tired. It's hard to stay active, you have frustrated, you get stressed,
• 58:50
  you get annoyed with people when you shouldn't.
• 58:55
  So, we for the longest time wanted to have a sleep supplement.
• 59:00
  Okay, but every time we try it, it doesn't seem to be doing anything for me.
• 59:06
  Right? So, for years, people are like, why don't you have a sleep product?
• 59:10
  Why don't you have a sleep product? Like, you know what?
• 59:11
  Because there's nothing that we feel good about putting our name on to.
• 59:17
  Okay. So, finally, we camped a formulation a couple years ago that both of both Beth and I
• 59:25
  were thrilled about because we have to have our personal use.
• 59:30
  And let me tell you a little bit how it works and what it does.
• 59:35
  The product is called true Z's, okay?
• 59:38
  And what's interesting about the product is it's going to help you fall asleep quicker.
• 59:45
  So, less time lying in bed awake.
• 59:49
  It's going to help you stay asleep longer or when you awake,
• 59:55
  you know, it's going to help you get back to sleep.
• 59:57
  I mean, it's not like, sometimes I think people expect they to take like a sleep aid.
• 1:00:00
  It's going to knock them out the whole night like they're on the anesthesia or something like that.
• 1:00:04
  Right, right, right, right?
• 1:00:06
  Okay, it's not going to happen, okay?
• 1:00:08
  So, when you do wake up at night or something wakes you up at night,
• 1:00:12
  help you fall asleep faster, sleep better, and be able to wake up better because you had more
• 1:00:19
  deep sleep. They call restorative sleep.
• 1:00:23
  You can wake up feeling much more refreshed, energized, and ready to take on the day.
• 1:00:28
  Okay, you know, the worst feeling is this, I don't really use an alarm clock,
• 1:00:32
  well, an alarm clock, but you know, you get an alarm go off and you're just like wobbling
• 1:00:37
  on, you know, you just feel like, I want to get up, you know.
• 1:00:41
  No, I want you to wake up feeling refreshed, ready to go.
• 1:00:46
  After a minute, you know, just feeling like you're already tackled a day.
• 1:00:50
  That really is the goal of product, and that's, I think, we achieved.
• 1:00:55
  It really starts with an ingrained mark, I think you're familiar with what's called
• 1:00:59
  L-thene. It's an amino acid that's found in green tea and mushrooms. If you think about
• 1:01:08
  if you think about green tea, it's, you know, caffeinated product,
• 1:01:12
  theening really helps take the edge off that caffeine.
• 1:01:16
  So green tea still has the, you know, the conning properties, many people associated with it,
• 1:01:22
  as well as can make you feel more alert through the green tea.
• 1:01:26
  Really see all theening that helps create that effect.
• 1:01:29
  So what it does, technically, when you take about 30 minutes to 60 day,
• 1:01:33
  it's 60, sorry, 30 to 60 minutes, at night, in the evening, it helps promote what
• 1:01:40
  we call alpha waves in your brain. These are calming, relaxing waves. So helps your mind
• 1:01:44
  start to relax. The biggest challenges we're falling asleep is your head racing, there's so much
• 1:01:51
  going on, check your email, you watching TV, the shows in your head. It's just hard to really
• 1:01:59
  calm your mind down. That's really the role of L-thene. And you can pretty much start to feel that
• 1:02:05
  at effect, in effect, within a couple of days. Okay. So that's where it all starts.
• 1:02:14
  The next thing, as you know, melatonin is really important. You know, it's melatonin to hormone
• 1:02:22
  that your body starts producing in the evening, when it starts to get dark outside,
• 1:02:27
  your body senses almost, it's almost bedtime. It's something called the pineal gland in your brain
• 1:02:31
  starts producing this hormone called melatonin and it helps you get sleepy and you fall asleep.
• 1:02:38
  It doesn't stop producing, your body isn't stopped producing melatonin. It's still probably about
• 1:02:42
  two to three, two, two a.m. to three a.m. right. That's great. The reason it stops is because by time
• 1:02:51
  you wake up, you want all that melatonin essentially to be gone. Okay. So if you test melatonin levels
• 1:02:58
  in a day time, it should be barely detectable. Okay. So melatonin helps you get to sleep and stay
• 1:03:07
  asleep. Here's the issue. Many people take synthetic melatonin, synthetic melatonin supplements.
• 1:03:17
  Your body only produces about 300 micrograms of melatonin at night. Okay. So even if your
• 1:03:24
  body is on optimal mates producing 100 micrograms or 200 micrograms, okay.
• 1:03:30
  Something, the average supplement user is taking five milligrams of melatonin. So that's like
• 1:03:36
  a thousand times more. I can't imagine your body can metabolize in even one night. Yeah. That's actually
• 1:03:41
  50 times more. Not a thousand times more. So you're getting all this extra melatonin and I recognize
• 1:03:48
  not all is digested and it's not like your brain producing it. But still you have a lot of
• 1:03:54
  excessive melatonin in your body, which your body can't clear by daybreak. Okay. So that's why a lot
• 1:04:01
  of people take melatonin supplements. They feel groggy during the day in a drowsy, turn to caffeine,
• 1:04:10
  to really help energize them and to help so they can stay awake. And that in effect is going to
• 1:04:16
  hurt their ability to sleep that night. Right. So you get this vicious cycle of caffeine melatonin,
• 1:04:21
  caffeine melatonin. We'll call it caffitonin. You can call it caffitonin. I think I've heard that
• 1:04:26
  before. No, but seriously. So we didn't want to put melatonin in a supplement. Okay. It's never
• 1:04:34
  agreed with me. I've tried melatonin in different forms. I just wake up feeling terrible.
• 1:04:40
  And I just said, you know, this is not for us. So what we did instead is we included an
• 1:04:47
  ingredient that actually helps your body produce melatonin. Okay. One of ways your body produces
• 1:04:53
  melatonin takes an amino acid called triptophan, you know, famously in turkey and so on and so
• 1:04:59
  forth. And it converts triptophan to melatonin. Okay. But it does in a measured way.
• 1:05:07
  Decide how much melatonin you need that we have enough that we need more
• 1:05:11
  it controls and regulates the process. Because the body has an innate intelligence to do with the
• 1:05:16
  body knows it needs. Right. Instead of force feeding all the melatonin, it's good. Let's let the
• 1:05:22
  buy fair. So what the ingredient I'm talking about is called saffron, saffron spice. And saffron
• 1:05:29
  essentially has a ability to help you buy produce enzymes that convert the triptophan to the melatonin.
• 1:05:39
  Right. That's how it works. Okay. So when you need more, it helps you buy produce it. Okay. So
• 1:05:46
  what we see now this is the way this all came about. Saffron is being used a lot for mood and
• 1:05:50
  emotional health. That's one of the things it's used as a supplement for. But they noticed that some
• 1:05:54
  people having sleep difficulties were sleeping a lot better, getting a lot more restful sleep.
• 1:05:58
  It's not really led to this whole thing looking into saffron and sleep. And they found this
• 1:06:04
  melatonin link, how it supports melatonin production. So instead of putting synthetic melatonin,
• 1:06:10
  we have this ingredient that supports your natural production of melatonin. Right. And I think
• 1:06:15
  that's a much better way to go. And since then they've done specific clinical studies just looking
• 1:06:21
  at sleep. Over 30 days, you know, you can see that people's sleep quality and different measures
• 1:06:29
  of restful sleep have gone up significantly compared to placebo. Well, one of the things,
• 1:06:33
  I mean, the thing I love most about that, Carl, and thank you for the explanation about true
• 1:06:37
  season and what goes on there. And I think it's obvious to a listener that you're not just throwing
• 1:06:42
  an ingredient in something because of what the ingredient does. It's rather a well thought out,
• 1:06:47
  well strategized plan that you're not rushing products onto your store. You're taking your time
• 1:06:54
  to figure out that by the time something does get there, it's perfected in a very thoughtful,
• 1:07:00
  calculated way. I mean, you're talking about, you know, how does LSE work in and how do I get
• 1:07:05
  triptophan? And how does saffron convert triptophan into melatonin? That's not the way I think a lot of,
• 1:07:11
  you know, here vitamin C, like, it's not the way a lot of products are formulated. And I think
• 1:07:16
  that's important. Well, what's important to me, and, you know, we've been in this for over 20
• 1:07:21
  years, right? So I don't claim to be scientists or practitioner or anything like that, but you learn
• 1:07:26
  a lot over 20 years, but I was always interested in not, you know, what does it do, but why and how?
• 1:07:32
  Okay, because that really helps. That's really important to me in the formulation. I don't want to
• 1:07:36
  put three things in a formula and do the same thing. That makes sense to me, right? But I want to
• 1:07:41
  try to attack a problem from the different angles and different causes of that problem, try to give
• 1:07:48
  someone the best result possible. And I always use this word in native intelligence that your body
• 1:07:53
  knows how to do what it's doing. And if it's not doing that, it's because it's lacking some kind of
• 1:07:58
  input. And it's not that it needs you to artificially slam it over the head. It's the, I didn't sleep
• 1:08:05
  well, so I'm going to put too much caffeine in my body kind of solution. And it's like, no, let's
• 1:08:09
  get your body what it needs because your body knows how to produce energy and your body knows how
• 1:08:12
  to be awake all day. Something else is happening. It's an input output type situation. So even as
• 1:08:19
  you're formulating, I think that's amazing. We're running over here, but I want to say, Kar like,
• 1:08:25
  I love what you're doing. I love the relational aspect of what you're doing because the supplement
• 1:08:30
  space to me is it's such a scammy market. And it just unfortunate. I just being honest with you,
• 1:08:36
  I know that's your industry, but it's like to a lot of people, it just feels gross. Yeah, no,
• 1:08:41
  you're not insulting me. I agree wholeheartedly. And it's, you know, it's remarkable to me is
• 1:08:47
  despite all the bad actors out there and bad products out there. This industry just used to grow
• 1:08:53
  and grow and grow. Which I think is more reflection of the need versus, you know, the quality of
• 1:08:59
  some of the players in the industry. Well, I think it's, I think it's a lot of things. I think one
• 1:09:03
  wearables have been causing people to become more cognizant of what's not going well. So they've
• 1:09:09
  trying to change those numbers. I think there's this zeitgeist of Maha. And, you know, people paying
• 1:09:15
  attention to health. I think there is a distrust from the healthcare industry that happened post
• 1:09:20
  COVID. I think there is an awareness that's taking place that food is not what it used to be. Like,
• 1:09:26
  I think there's like a hundred factors that are all working together. Fortunately, I will say
• 1:09:33
  harmoniously, the problem is is when where there's money, there's bad actors. Well, no, that's
• 1:09:37
  exactly, I mean, opportunity, the oldie opportunists come out and they see the same thing you see.
• 1:09:42
  And it's, look, all you have to do is, is be selective and figure out how to find good supplements.
• 1:09:51
  And that's really what I've been trying to do with some of the tips I give on our
• 1:09:55
  podcast and our website is, I just don't want you to get burned, you know, make a bad decision,
• 1:10:02
  you know, and it's just, and it's bleamates, not that easy. Like I said, a lot of great brands
• 1:10:08
  out there, but there's unfortunately probably 10 times more bad brands. Yeah. Well, and I think
• 1:10:14
  it's important. And I'm a big fan of trust factors, right? Like, if this is a person who makes
• 1:10:18
  a recommendation, and I will say to anybody listening, I take Nature City supplements, which is
• 1:10:23
  why I'm comfortable having you on here because I'd obviously not endorse something that I didn't
• 1:10:27
  believe in. Well, we thank you for that. Yeah. And I mean, I probably take five or six of your
• 1:10:31
  products on a daily basis, in fact, and taking your resveratrol the longest. Yeah. But I take your
• 1:10:38
  vitamin C, I take your D3K2, I take your burburine, like there's several things that I take out of
• 1:10:44
  the family because I'm like anything that I can buy from Nature City that I need. That's my go-to.
• 1:10:53
  You know, and then I'll source other places where I've got this brand I trust and this one I trust
• 1:10:57
  and so on because there's a lot of people out there that are good. But I think it's important to
• 1:11:02
  find a relationship with someone and what I love about Nature City is, first of all, I happen to have
• 1:11:07
  a personal relationship with you. I can call you if I really have a problem, but as a brand,
• 1:11:11
  it's a trustworthy brand that I don't have to do that. Yeah. Well, you know, that's a key point.
• 1:11:17
  I mean, that's one of the things I tell people to look for. Is the brand accessible? Correct.
• 1:11:21
  Or are the people except are they out here? You know, I mean, this is not right. I can only email
• 1:11:26
  in a question. I don't want to do business with you. That's my rule of thumb. Right. You know,
• 1:11:30
  can I speak to somebody? You can speak to someone, you know, 365 days, 724 hours, 7 days a week.
• 1:11:38
  I think I was already done in, but I got it. I got it. It's 25 days, 24 hours, right? Yeah.
• 1:11:42
  But no, but you know, look, that was really, that's really important to us too. Look, you may not
• 1:11:46
  immediately get the answer, but that person is going to find the answer. And that often means
• 1:11:51
  coming to me or coming to the bath. And I'll find the answer. And again, that's what I find
• 1:11:55
  amazing is the fact that like you guys are owners, operators, and accessible to your audience,
• 1:12:00
  that it's not, you're not hiding behind an office. You're not in a VC firm somewhere in New York.
• 1:12:06
  You're here in Florida making good products. 23 years later, still doing it. And I think there's
• 1:12:12
  something to be said that companies without integrity don't stay in business very long.
• 1:12:17
  So that the length of time that you've been in business before AI, before the zeitgeist,
• 1:12:23
  before even the internet was that big of a shopping experience. Like you guys have been here doing
• 1:12:28
  what you're doing. And I mean, respect for that. I recommend anybody, to be honest with you,
• 1:12:33
  as I said, I wouldn't lie on here. And anybody who's interested in looking at a supplement,
• 1:12:38
  nature city, they hit all of my bus tabs. There's quality and ingredients, there's research
• 1:12:43
  back to everything there. Most of all, there's a trust factor through the relationship with the
• 1:12:48
  people that are actually making the products. Again, wouldn't endorse something that I don't
• 1:12:52
  personally take. And as I said, I take about six of them on a daily basis. I did not realize
• 1:12:57
  there's a lot of money, but it was that many. But no, the products are fantastic. And I compare
• 1:13:03
  them to others because I want to make sure that I'm taking what's the best. NatureCity.com is the
• 1:13:10
  website. Show notes down there will actually have everything related to that. We'll put a code in
• 1:13:15
  there that people can save a few bucks if they want to try nature city. But I'll tell you what,
• 1:13:19
  one of the things that impresses me about nature city carl is some people's supplements are just
• 1:13:24
  so expensive to buy them. And I'm like, it's got to be like laced in silver or something.
• 1:13:30
  And nature city's products, the quality that you bring is amazing. But like the prices to me
• 1:13:34
  almost seem absurd because they're it's so affordable. Yeah, look, and that's what I was with the
• 1:13:41
  keyword. You know what I mean? It was, again, I've used every person, whether I know you are not as
• 1:13:49
  a family member. And look, I want to try to make a prox as affordable as I can. And we've had that
• 1:13:56
  question that question, but that point raised before. And look, we're here, one of the best,
• 1:14:05
  I rather have you buy a product for the next five years than make a lot of money in two months off.
• 1:14:11
  And that's really what perfectly said. And again, that's because relationships happen over time.
• 1:14:17
  They don't happen over one order. And I think it's important. So definitely check out naturecity
• 1:14:22
  naturecity.com. Everything will be down below in the show notes. Carl, thank you so much. You're
• 1:14:26
  taking the time to come down here today and talk. I love when I'm able to actually do podcasts in
• 1:14:30
  person because relationship, right? Hey, nothing like face to face. You know, and that's why we,
• 1:14:37
  you know, the great thing about these podcasts is we are sort of now face to face with the world
• 1:14:42
  versus the old days, right? So, exactly. So, hey, thank you for having me. I appreciate you being
• 1:14:48
  everybody. We'll see you next time on performance driven living.