Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Turning Towards

Transcript

Turning Towards · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. So my friend sent me a message, and it was the kind of message where she warned me first that it was coming. So you know it's not gonna be good when they're like, hey. Don't read this until you're in a good place, but it's really important for me to share it with you. But she's a truth teller, and that's one of the reasons we love her.
• 1:24
  And it was really, really important, and it was so, so big that I want to read it here and share it with you because I can't be the only one. So she sent this after our big crybaby day, which was humiliating and embarrassing, but it seemed worth sharing because when raw is part of being real and being vulnerable is part of our goal to get better, then we have to share that and model that and be that as much as we do everything else that we're learning. Right? So we went ahead and voted to keep it in, but it was super embarrassing. But after she listened to it, then she sent us this message.
• 2:07
  She talked about us saying that when we're alone, we feel safest because there's not anyone who can hurt us. I guess we said that in the podcast. I have zero memory of this, but it makes sense. She says it's something we read and that we talked about, but how we feel safe when we're alone. Oh, oh, oh, now it's coming back to me.
• 2:34
  What I meant was like if you're getting abused, like in the moment of being abused, then when it's finally over and they leave, then like, being alone means it stopped. And so sometimes you feel safe and you tend to isolate because you're protecting yourself because it means the abuse can stop and no one can abuse you. And so you think that that feels safer. I didn't mean that it is safer because it's not always. Right?
• 3:02
  Like, if you build up castle walls, then all you've done is put yourself under siege. And if you won't feel things and if you won't cry and if you won't express your feelings, then you've locked everything out, including good that needs to come in. Right? And so part of those boundaries emotionally even are learning to be flexible and let those things come when you feel them. And so what our friend said was that it's something that we try to do the right thing by being with others because of NTIS.
• 3:39
  So now that now time is safe, it is important for us to be around others and connect with others because that's healthy and that's what lets the nourishment come in. Right? And so we were sharing about how being alone, even though it feels safer, doesn't actually mean it's healthier. Just like sometimes healing hurts to get better or you have to go through some of those dark spaces to find a safer place or a brighter place. And so when you have safe people, I mean, it's totally conditional on that.
• 4:18
  I'm not just saying go out and be open to the world or connect with everyone you can. I mean, with good boundaries and healthy, safe people who are good and kind. And that's the hardest part. Finding them is the hardest part. I get that.
• 4:35
  But when and if you can find them, then it's worth connecting to them and staying connected to them. Then it's worth connecting with them and staying connected to them so that you're no longer alone And so that you can receive love and attention and attunement and connection and all of these things that bring healing because of attachment. Like, it matters. Everything is attachment and connection. And when you have enough of that support, you start being able to function at a whole different realm.
• 5:17
  I mean, we ourselves are like completely different than we were a year ago, much less three years ago. Like, you have no idea. Like, we've made decades and I'm not even exaggerating decades of progress because we have focused on this connection piece and we've had these, I mean, in our language, it would be miracles of connections of finding safe people who are DID, finding safe people who know about DID, finding safe people who know us even though they don't know about DID, finding friends who are good and kind and safe and surrounding yourself with that kind of support, where you have opportunity to give goodness and kindness and relationship, but also receive goodness and kindness and relationship. Right? That's what we're learning.
• 6:11
  And so the therapist has told us for, like, three years, we need to step into and turn toward and all of this. I'm like, like, I don't know what you're talking about. But she keeps saying that. And over and over, I'm not getting the concept, not getting the concept. Even doctor e is not getting the concept.
• 6:28
  Like, can't find it. We can't figure out what you're talking about. And then can't figure out about what it looks like because all we can see is that we are bad. We are wrong. We are in the wrong place.
• 6:39
  We're at the wrong time. We did the wrong thing. Even when we didn't try to do anything wrong, then stuff still happened and messed everything up. Right? And so how do we step into who we're supposed to be when who we are is hurt and abused and damaged and ruined and full of shame.
• 6:59
  Do you see? That's why it's so scary. Remember back to the wall of terror episode? Like, that's what's terrifying about it. Except that's not who we are.
• 7:10
  That's just what the abuse was. And that's just how we were hurt. And that is huge for us to understand that that's not the same as who we are. So back to our friend's message. She said, in my opinion, when you are alone, you can be really self destructive.
• 7:35
  She's a truth teller, you guys. She gets it out there. She lays it out. It's one of our favorite things about her is that she's not afraid to go there. Okay.
• 7:45
  She said, and you cause harm to yourself emotionally and mentally when what you need to realize is that in memory time, the harmful people in your life were other people, like, who were dangerous, like abusers. Right? But she says, but in now time, the harmful people in your life is you. What? Okay.
• 8:12
  Only your BFF can say something like that. Nobody else can get away with saying that, except it's true. Listen to what she says. She says, you think you don't deserve the good things in your life. You think you will mess it all up.
• 8:32
  You think it won't stay or that it will be taken from you or that people will leave you. And so you consume yourself with these thoughts until some of you get overwhelmed with emotions that come with these thoughts. Okay, here's what you don't know is that sometimes you are the passive influencer too. Like when we talk about alters being able to do passive influence, where you don't realize that you're doing something or saying something, or they're helping sort of cause you to say something or do something, sometimes you do that to them. And this is what she's talking about.
• 9:09
  And I had no idea. No idea. Like, it blew my brains out this thing where it wasn't just about how they influence me to do or say something, but I can influence them on what to feel. Or they can influence me what to feel. Like, did you realize that?
• 9:34
  That feelings can be part of what's getting triggered, not just what you're doing or what you're remembering or what you're thinking. Like, this is huge. She says, when this happens, it causes some of you anxiety and triggers others because you aren't allowing yourself to accept that things are good, that they are supposed to be good, and you aren't allowing all of you to enjoy it. And you give them the thoughts that it may all be taken away. You guys, that is prophetic in the truth telling sense.
• 10:14
  Like, you talk about prophetic, there's prophetic, like, foretelling, like telling the future or warning what's gonna happen as consequences for good or bad. Right? But there's also forth telling, which is truth telling. And that right there, my friend, was a truth bomb. And we did not like it.
• 10:36
  Let me tell you how much we did not like it. I can't even that did not land well. I'm just kidding. It really did. And guess what?
• 10:51
  You will not believe. You will not believe how powerful this is. And pondering this and thinking about this and trying to figure out what it was she meant and what it was we're doing to ourselves of not allowing ourselves to just embrace what is good and right with the world and good and right with safe people around us and maybe consider the idea that perhaps people do wanna interact with us or people do wanna connect with us and that maybe normal healthy relationships are actually possible and that when we're safe with the husband or safe with our friends that maybe we should just chill out and enjoy it. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
• 11:38
  This is so huge. It's so powerful. And thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it has actually led us to something else. Do you know what we did? No.
• 11:48
  You don't. But I'm gonna tell you. We actually because we couldn't figure out what else to do. Why would she keep saying this? And obviously, if the therapist kept telling us something for, like, three years, then obviously we weren't getting it yet or she wouldn't have to keep repeating it.
• 12:05
  Right? So finally, we're like, let's just Google it. Because literally the concept of turning towards instead of turning away is not registering at all. And if the concept isn't registering, then let's just go back to safe, happy, cognitive land, and let's just Google it. Let's find out what it means and what on earth she's talking about.
• 12:27
  Because if we don't understand what she's talking about, we certainly can't try it, and we can't do it. So here's what we did. We typed in turning away in Google and turning toward in Google and to figure out what came up. Okay. Do you know what came up?
• 12:44
  A whole kind of therapy. So there's this Gottman guy, and doctor e could tell you about him, except she doesn't do couples. We've never done couples. We knew that was a triggering thing. You know, divorce, fighting parents, and domestic violence and all.
• 13:00
  No. We've never ever doctor e has never seen couples. And so she just didn't know that as well as she knows other stuff. So take that nerd town. You got a chink in your armor because there is this guy, Gottman, and maybe you don't need marriage therapy.
• 13:17
  But if your head is full of a hundred people, you maybe need to learn what Gottman had to say. So let's back up, and we're gonna talk about this Gottman guy for a minute. Okay? And I am telling you this, and I'm sorry it's not in doctor e language. You're gonna have to flow with me.
• 13:34
  So this Gottman guy who does marriage and couples counseling or something and talks about what makes a successful marriage and what doesn't, he talks about these things called bids for connection. And it says on Gottman.com on the blog, it says, a bid for connection is any attempt from one partner to another for attention, affirmation, affection, or any other positive connection. And then it gives like different kinds of examples. But I think what the therapist was saying is that that works in all relationships, whether it's close friends or the husband or with the children or any time where there is safe and healthy boundaries and safe and healthy relationships. These same kinds of principles apply.
• 14:24
  And I think she's telling us to like when people offer us connection, we're supposed to respond to it instead of running away from it. And so the turning towards means responding to that connection offer, that bid for connection. Right? And turning away is the whole running away thing. And in fact, this Gottman guy says the turning away is actually like the most dangerous and disruptive piece that you can do.
• 14:57
  So 100 points for us because we got the worst score. But think about it in the context of trauma, this is why turning away works for distancing yourself from people because you think you're protecting. And so I don't think that we realized how stinking aggressive that is, how completely it can cut off relationships and isolate ourselves from people because we just weren't responding to connection. I don't think this is the same with, like, some kind of passive aggressive trying to get them to keep offering bits of connection. I think that's a different thing.
• 15:40
  I could be wrong because I am not the therapist here. But honestly, intuitively, I feel like this is a different thing. Our problem is not that kind of thing of trying to get more bits of connection. It's that the bits of connections don't feel safe even when in TIS, even when now time is safe. Like, we don't know how to interpret that the bid for connection is a good thing because the bid for connection has always been a dangerous thing.
• 16:10
  And so I think finally this week because of our friend saying what she said, little miss smarty pants, and because of what the poor therapist was trying to tell us for three years at least, maybe twenty if you count since we were 17, but whatever. I think that's what she's saying. She's just saying when now time is safe, then the people are safe too. I am not talking about when now time is not safe. If you're not in a healthy relationship or if you're in an abusive relationship or anyone is still hurting you, this is not what we're talking about.
• 16:43
  What we're talking about right here is when now time is safe and there are possibilities for healthy, safe, good connections that nourish your soul, that we have to embrace that instead of running away from that. And, and to go a step further on the courage meter, not only do we have to embrace those offers for connection, but I think we're supposed to initiate them sometimes too. What? What? And in case you're super, super literal, there's even a list from the Gottman.com website of different examples of different bids.
• 17:34
  So in case you, like ourselves, are, like, so stunted in your development of understanding what an offer of connection looks like or how to invite someone into a connection, he, like, literally gives a list of 14 different ways that you can do it and different things that that sounds like or looks like. So, like, number one is pay attention to what I say. And you could say, how do I look? Did you see that squirrel? Something to get attention.
• 18:06
  Number two, respond to simple requests like, could you take poo for a walk? While you're up, could you grab the salsa? The husband's really good at this. I'm like, hey, could you get the salsa? And he's like, as you wish.
• 18:22
  Number three, help or work with me. Let's help grandma outside. So working together, right? Connecting physically through the process. Number four, show interest or active excitement in my accomplishments.
• 18:34
  Do you like my drawing? How were the cookies? Number five, answer my questions or request for information. My friend's on the way. Can you give her our address?
• 18:44
  Number six, chat with me. Let me tell you what happened. Number seven, share the events of your day with me. What have you been up to? Number eight, respond to my joke.
• 18:55
  Did you hear the one about sorry. Then I totally got jokes in my head, so there was some delay there. Number nine, help me de stress. I've been cooking all day. I'm so tired.
• 19:08
  Number 10, help me problem solve. The dog needs to go on a walk, but my foot hurts. Number 11, be affectionate. Come cuddle with me while I read. Number 12, play with me.
• 19:19
  Let's get the chessboard. Number 13, join me in an adventure. Do you want to explore the woods tomorrow? Number 14, join me in learning something. Let's go to that ice skating class.
• 19:33
  Do you see what a big deal it is? Like, it gives literal examples. Like, I need that. Like, I won't need to be spoon fed forever. Although, I could use some spoons, by the way.
• 19:43
  But I think this gives us spoons. When you connect with others, you get spoons. You guys, this is huge. It's so huge. So this whole attachment thing and how do you find a tune with others?
• 19:56
  And when you are safe, how do you connect with others? This is how. This is the answer that finally tells you how. Like, we have been talking about attachment and attunement for over a year. And we finally got to the part about how do you do it.
• 20:12
  And it is that you have to recognize these bids for connection, and you have to recognize when someone is offering connection, but you also have to commit to the actual connecting. And you have to commit to offering connection to others as well. So three things happen. Number one, they offer connection to you. And number two, you have to respond to that connection.
• 20:40
  And then number three is you commit to being connected. So, like, the reason I suddenly have a best friend after, how many years? Forty, maybe? I don't even know you guys. We gotta figure that out.
• 20:55
  All of a sudden, have my first best friend that has stayed with me for a whole year because she was committed to me, because I felt safe enough to respond to her, respond to that commitment, and because we have an ongoing commitment to connect. And that's why we're friends. Like, it's really that simple. I mean, there's so much more to it. But do you see?
• 21:25
  Do you see that's what makes it possible no matter what you've been through? It's so huge. I don't even have words for it because it means there is hope. It means that everything you thought was impossible is actually possible because you are not so destroyed or so damaged or so hurt that you can't still reach out. You do have to do the hard work of making sure that you're reaching out to someone who is safe and good and kind.
• 22:01
  But at some point, it just becomes a double dog dare. And you have to step outside your comfort zone. You have to be raw and vulnerable and open up and dare to connect. And when you don't, then you miss that offer of connection, which is what the Gottman guy calls turning away. It says on his website, Turning away can be devastating.
• 22:28
  It's even more devastating than turning against or rejecting the bid. Rejecting a bid at least provides the opportunity for continued engagement and repair, but missing the bid results in diminished bids or worse, making bids for attention, enjoyment, and affection somewhere else. So even when you are negotiating these offers of connection, then even a rejection is not as bad as a turning away because it means you're still present to negotiate. Like, can connect with this person because they're safe, but I'm not gonna connect with this person because they're not safe. But I'm still open to connecting.
• 23:09
  Do you see? But turning away is when I put those walls up and we are not going to connect with anyone. This is huge. This is huge. So I found another website, mindfulnessmuse.com.
• 23:28
  And Oh, my goodness. Look, it says on this. This Oh, my goodness. I learned about this. There's a picture of Pooh and Piglet.
• 23:37
  It says, Piglet sat next to Pooh. And Pooh, he whispered. Yes, Piglet. Nothing, said Piglet, taking Pooh's paw. I just wanted to be sure of you.
• 23:49
  Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. So then it talks this article talks kind of about misattunement. It doesn't use the word misattunement, but they say it's the absence of presence that is most easily detected. The sense that the other person is not hearing you, not understanding you, or not engaged with you.
• 24:14
  That the way that we turn toward another person is with presence. Oh, that's what you guys remember the women's retreat? That's why they talked about showing up and stepping in and oh, snorkels. Okay, so Doctor. Gottman said, The everyday small moments that when added up can make or break a relationship.
• 24:44
  So how we channel our attention, how we focus, and how we offer them presence is how we offer connection. And because people are human and because we are busy doing human things, we can't always be constantly engaged or or actively engaged in, like, a needy way. Like, that's not healthy either. Right? But you can offer a connection, like, even through text or an email or like the cards we're sending to the therapist or mailing a card to a friend.
• 25:23
  Like, you can offer that and still be connected without them having to respond that second. Right? Because we're all doing our own thing. Oh, wow. Okay.
• 25:42
  So this gives seven things to practice. It says it's from the seven principles for making marriage work by Gottman from 1999. Number one, take turns. Number two, don't give unsolicited advice. Number three, show genuine interest.
• 26:02
  Four, communicate your understanding. Five, take your partner's side. Six, express a we against others attitude, meaning that you're in it together. And number seven, express affection. And number eight is validate emotions.
• 26:21
  I don't know why there's eight when they said there's seven. But those are like, you guys, I think we could get us some social skills. That's what's going on right here. So the Gottman.com site says responsiveness serves as a good outward indicator to the health of our relationship. To pay attention means we care, which means we really love.
• 26:46
  What? We might be more responsive to those we like and feel safe with and less responsive to those we dislike. This is why the Brene Brown empathy stuff works, you guys. This is why Daniel Goleman's compassion talk works. And so it says being careful of self care and stress so that we don't overlook areas to where we can be attentive and responsive.
• 27:21
  That makes sense that trauma would impact that because when we are traumatized, it does not feel like we can be responsive because that is danger. Right? So you can see why this is so hard. I know this is simple stuff, but for us it's a really big deal and a huge breakthrough. What that looks like practically, I don't know yet.
• 27:43
  And it says being playful and enthusiastic results in heightened levels of positivity even during conflict. So it's the emotional connection that is so, so important and that is offered through presence with someone else, Which you can't do if you're not there you guys. That's why it's hard for people with DID. That's why it's hard for people with trauma. Because if we're not all the way present, we can't actually connect with others.
• 28:14
  Which is why our friend is right that when we isolate ourselves and shut down because the world doesn't feel safe or we assume it's not safe, then what we're actually missing out on are the safe connections that make the world a good place. Oh my goodness. Okay. So I don't know what this is gonna look like practically exactly, but we tried to practice today. So we sort of took a challenge, and we've got maybe four not counting the husband because, you know, he's there because somehow he's connected.
• 28:58
  We'll have to analyze that later. No. Wait. I know what it is. It's because he's committed to connection.
• 29:06
  So even when he struggles with depression or we're all kinds of cuckoo from DID, he's still entirely present with us and committed to being present. Wow. And that's what the therapist did too. And now we have like four people plus the husband. So that's five people at least that we know are safe and good and we could count on who are present with us.
• 29:37
  And so we tried several things just as an experiment. We texted two of them because they were away or we're away. We live far away. One of them, we talked to instead of avoiding because I think we try to protect her by staying away, but she actually is offering connection. So we need to respond to that and commit to staying connected instead of being afraid or thinking we're protecting someone by staying away because that's not right.
• 30:17
  And then we met our friend, the one who sent us this text message. We met her. Instead of avoiding her after a hard text message, we met her for brunch. You guys, we're getting all kinds of crazy up here meeting people for lunch and meeting people for brunch. You guys, do you understand what a big deal that is?
• 30:42
  Just the simple thing of what I just said that we met someone for brunch, like, in a restaurant in public to talk? Are you kidding me? This is huge. It's so huge. We're making such progress and I'm really proud about it and I'm really excited by it.
• 31:00
  But we talked with her about everything, but including this text message and we ended up spending the whole day together, and it was amazing. It was gorgeous outside. We were not all depressed and stuck inside. We got to go on a walk because we were walking around downtown, and we got good food because we went out to eat at the diner, and we got good connection because we were talking with our friend and hearing how she's doing and talking about how we're doing and actually connecting about things. And you guys, I can't tell you, it was the most amazing day, like night and day from falling apart to everything is actually okay.
• 31:50
  And not only am I just taking your word for it, but I'm experiencing that everything is actually okay. It was crazy town. It was amazing. I can't even tell you how exciting it was. It was such a good, good day.
• 32:07
  And so I know it was just a simple text message. And I don't know anything about this Gottman guy, and I don't know how much of it applies to plural systems or not. But some of those principles of just how to work together internally, but also how to work together externally and to remain connected is amazing. And do you know what we ended up doing? We ended up buying, which is a huge deal for us.
• 32:37
  We don't spend money on ourselves. Like, we don't even have a coat still. I know we need to get a coat. But because we've got to take care of the family, like, don't even spend money for ourselves. But there was this little shop downtown and inside it they had all of these like homemade, it was like a little boutique shop and they had these homemade dream catchers But one of them was more like a tapestry, and it had all these different ones except they were all hanging from the same piece of wood.
• 33:12
  And to me, it felt so powerful like DID, like there's all these different parts of us, but we are somehow for the first time united and all sort of gathered in one place as one system, as one group, all on the same page. I don't even know how to explain it. One structure for the first time even though there's all these different threads. And it was a beautiful example and powerful moment or symbol to me of what it is we're trying to learn and how to stay connected. And none of them are even threatened because they're all their own thing.
• 33:56
  It's just it's beautiful. I'll post a picture of it so you can see on the blog and on Facebook. But it really, really was a powerful thing, and I got it. And I want to remember because this is the day that I learned how to connect to other people. And this is the day that I learned that not only is NTIES, not only is now time safe, but also now time is together.
• 34:23
  We're not alone anymore And everything is gonna be okay because it already is.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com. We'll see you there.