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The Five Scariest Moments in Our Relationship (with Violet Lange) · Evolutionary Men

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to a juicy episode of our podcasts.
• 0:03
  And we are talking today about the five scariest moments in our relationship.
• 0:12
  And
• 0:13
  Let's just be real that fear happens in each other, in our relationship, but the problem is it can really derail things.
• 0:21
  It's not so much that fear itself is a problem, it's if you don't work through it and then you project onto your partner or you become a martyr or impatient or you uh throw the grenade as we've said on on other episodes.
• 0:34
  And there are a lot of ways you can work with fear as an individual, but today we're actually going to be talking a lot more of how do you work through these scary moments as a couple.
• 0:43
  And some of these moments will be about things we faced together that influenced our relationship.
• 0:48
  And some of them will be about our own personal journey of fear as it relates to our relationship.
• 0:54
  So let's kick it off.
• 0:55
  Yeah, and just to be clear, uh right, the idea with the fear here is any long-term relationship, any any couple really committed to
• 1:04
  each other over a long period of time, there's gonna be moments where you question things.
• 1:09
  And that's part of what we mean by fear of like, is this it?
• 1:13
  Is this over?
• 1:13
  Are we done?
• 1:14
  Is this repairable?
• 1:16
  Can we mend this?
• 1:18
  Can we come back together?
• 1:19
  And these are just some of our top moments, not our only moments by any means.
• 1:23
  No.
• 1:24
  But some of our top moments that we're going to dive into here today.
• 1:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:30
  So I think the scariest moment we we both said when we were preparing for this uh episode that number one scariest moment was when we got the diagnosis that our daughter was born deaf.
• 1:41
  And now looking back, it's easy to say, well, that was just a moment of discovery where we learned more about her and our journey.
• 1:49
  But at the time for me
• 1:51
  it just felt really high anxiety, and anxiety is just a fancy word for fear.
• 1:57
  And it was this question of will we get through this as a family?
• 2:01
  And will our
• 2:03
  vision of family stay intact.
• 2:05
  And I know I sound really ableist when I say that, but it was more that how are we going to communicate with her?
• 2:10
  Because communication as relationship coaches is like paramount for us.
• 2:14
  And then we were worried
• 2:16
  How would we become fluent in sign language with sign language?
• 2:20
  And um it just it was scary because of the unknown.
• 2:24
  And I think that's a common thread through a lot of fear moments is
• 2:28
  What happens next and how are we going to solve for this challenge without losing our integrity, without losing ourselves?
• 2:37
  Um
• 2:38
  And one of our kind of mentors during that process, Mary Beth at JTC, would always say, you know, anxiety actually isn't a bad way to deal with things in the beginning because it gives you fuel.
• 2:49
  You know, it really does kind of ramp up your nervous system in a way that you can fight the proverbial tiger.
• 2:55
  Um, in this case, the tiger was just wanting to be really good parents and having this um unexpected thing happen.
• 3:03
  Yeah, and it was a good example of a lot of uncertainty.
• 3:09
  And so, you know, we had already had a journey to even get pregnant, and there was this feeling once the birth
• 3:16
  was uh over of uh okay, right the we got through it, the hard part's over, it's it's it's smooth sailing here.
• 3:23
  And I think this is something we often kinda encounter in life in relationships when it's actually like, oh no.
• 3:30
  You know, we had basically a short month of not knowing and kind of nestled and beautiful in its own way because it allowed us to just really be present.
• 3:39
  with our daughter, but then it was just the high amount of uncertainty around we don't know what this is gonna do.
• 3:48
  And having come off of, you know, a few years prior of having to do a lot of work to stay connected and some of our deep wounding already appearing, some of our biggest fights, which we've talked about before.
• 3:59
  There was a sense of, okay, how is this going to reverberate in our connection?
• 4:04
  And have we built a strong enough connection to get through this together?
• 4:10
  Because our stress levels are going to go up, right?
• 4:13
  And it just so happened that this coincided with COVID coming and it was kind of an just total amount of insanity for us where the world was shutting down, we were having to get our daughter into
• 4:25
  um hospitals for testing to find out, you know, is this just deafness?
• 4:30
  We didn't know, or are there gonna be serious complications down the line?
• 4:34
  Is the deafness part of something else?
• 4:37
  And so there was just a high amount
• 4:40
  of anxiety between the two of us and a lot of fear around what's it gonna mean?
• 4:46
  Right?
• 4:47
  What's it gonna mean for our family, what's it gonna mean for our relationship?
• 4:50
  Are we gonna even have time to have a relationship depending on how things go?
• 4:54
  and how do we protect um our daughter through all of this?
• 4:58
  And it was a good example of um
• 5:02
  We really had to use the resources we had around us in terms of our couples therapist uh support system from this educational center.
• 5:11
  We started working with other friends and family.
• 5:14
  my men's group, her female friends.
• 5:17
  We really called on it all, our families as well, to help us navigate that transition.
• 5:22
  But it was full of um
• 5:24
  A lot of fear, including fear, you know, when we didn't know what caused it, right?
• 5:29
  Was, oh wow, is is there something about my genetics that, you know, caused this in my daughter?
• 5:34
  We didn't know, right?
• 5:35
  We later found out.
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  It wasn't from either of us.
• 5:39
  But there was a lot of that fear too of oh if it was me, what is it gonna mean?
• 5:42
  What's she gonna think?
• 5:43
  Etc.
• 5:43
  etc.
• 5:44
  Or I was like, is it because I ate mussels one day?
• 5:47
  Because I was really craving all the iron and minerals and my midwife actually said go for it.
• 5:52
  But anyway, it wasn't that
• 5:54
  Yeah, but there was a lot of fear, as you can see that we were carrying inside of that that then just spilled over into our connection.
• 6:03
  Meanwhile.
• 6:04
  It's the first time we've had children, right?
• 6:07
  So we're also just dealing with the experience of having a kid for the first time and having to raise and what a monumental shift in our time, energy, presence.
• 6:18
  um that that was in terms of what we didn't really know, right?
• 6:22
  We were both entrepreneurs working from home.
• 6:24
  She had to massively scaled back her business.
• 6:27
  Um, I had to learn to switch gears in a way I never did of okay, I got two hours to work and then two hours with kids.
• 6:33
  And nobody tells you about these things that, you know, uh just to prepare.
• 6:38
  And so there was just a lot of fear and I would say stress that kind of came from a lot of that fear as well that we really had to work hard to navigate as a couple
• 6:48
  And I will say, you know, there are hidden gifts I find in every kind of fear experience because it is a catalyst and an activator, and you can choose how you're going to work through it to become closer or more distant.
• 7:00
  Um, I'm really proud of looking back, like our physical intimacy stayed intact, you know.
• 7:05
  I took a program that I don't know if I really needed to take, but it was more about me.
• 7:10
  investing in this part of our relationship.
• 7:12
  The fall, you know, when our daughter was basically around eight or nine months, I took an online course about sexuality and getting support.
• 7:19
  In maintaining my sexual essence.
• 7:22
  We saw our couples therapist, we saw the counselor at the hearing center clinic that we were working with.
• 7:28
  And we also found
• 7:30
  kind of a silver lining of really amazing community.
• 7:33
  You know, there was just unfathomable support, assistance, hope, encouragement, like all of that from families who were a year or two years ahead of us in the journey, whose children had also
• 7:45
  gone through the journey of being deaf and then getting cochlear implants and they were all born to typically hearing parents so we had that kind of common thread.
• 7:55
  And I would also say now that we have two kids, looking back, I'm like, wow.
• 8:00
  We really did it.
• 8:01
  Like we went through COVID with a child with a disability and a totally, you know, different context of where we thought we would be, you know, financially and with our businesses and all of this stuff.
• 8:12
  And now
• 8:13
  having a second, everyone's like, oh, is it a big adjustment having a second?
• 8:16
  And I'm like, it's easy.
• 8:17
  It's so much easier.
• 8:19
  Um, which isn't to say that Ruby is difficult, but just that, you know, she's a she's a fiery soul who chose a really interesting
• 8:27
  um path so what do you think you learned or what did we get from that from your perspective um
• 8:35
  I mean, just the I think the deeper lesson with this one that is going to be applicable to any couple is, right, even if we try to stay present and sober in a relationship, we all future project.
• 8:48
  as to what it's supposed to look like.
• 8:51
  And I think it's a very common experience that life comes along and rewrites that story.
• 8:58
  And that can be a point a lot of couples don't get past, you know, frankly.
• 9:03
  And for us, I think it was the first really big one where it was like, oh, okay.
• 9:10
  the the perfect a little it's all gonna unfold without any hiccups.
• 9:15
  That's not the case.
• 9:16
  And um, you know, I think for us it was the first of a few different experiences.
• 9:21
  that we've had to learn to navigate in our coupledom of, oh, those those things just happen to other people, right?
• 9:29
  It's this percentage of the population or whatever.
• 9:32
  And then you start to realize, oh, that can happen to us.
• 9:34
  And it is happening to us.
• 9:36
  And if that's happening to us, what else can happen to us?
• 9:40
  And so for me, it certainly has been a shift to more gratitude as well for wow, okay, it was really hard and it was all completely workable.
• 9:50
  You know, using the resources we had and we have a lot of privilege in the work we do, our skin color, our uh economic status.
• 9:59
  that some people we know didn't have and just even acknowledging and noticing that of like, okay, yeah, sometimes it's really hard and we work really hard and
• 10:08
  We do have a lot of benefit behind us that not everyone does.
• 10:13
  So just woke me up to that as well, as well as something as simple as, oh yeah, we have typical hearing.
• 10:20
  And we've never had that challenge that we've now been exposed to a lot, a lot of people, including our own daughter, who don't have that just automatically there.
• 10:29
  So for me, yeah, it was full of a lot of fear and um
• 10:33
  I think we really had to grow together to grow up through it in a lot of ways and you know learn to work with each other in different ways as well of just managing um
• 10:47
  our day-to-day life and managing this big transition of okay, what's this going to mean for a life?
• 10:52
  How do you make big decisions that are going to impact your child's life?
• 10:56
  for decades really when you don't have a whole lot of information, you know, and we had to make some choices.
• 11:01
  And thankfully we were able to make them together.
• 11:05
  Yes.
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  And so if you're listening to this, maybe you don't have a child who has special needs, but maybe you've lost a parent or have to deal with elder care or situation with in-laws are different than you expected or job changes like
• 11:17
  Uh hopefully you can take some nuggets for this about anytime uncertainty comes around and you have to readjust your plan on the fly with each other and stay connected without getting resentful.
• 11:30
  Yeah.
• 11:31
  Yeah, and I'll I'll share just one last benefit of that experience was uh like I said, COVID happened while that was happening and
• 11:42
  It, you know, was hard.
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  And because we had such a clear mission and focus of taking care of our daughter,
• 11:51
  e even beyond just, you know, her diagnosis and stuff, like a baby came into our life.
• 11:56
  There were to a lot of ways, I don't think we were quite as impacted as others.
• 12:00
  Cause we had this little family unit in this little joyful beering to just take care of and pour our love into.
• 12:08
  And then had just enough connection around that that, you know, we were able to ride a wave that many, many men in particular I worked with didn't have that.
• 12:17
  And it was much more painful to navigate those times.
• 12:20
  But that was one experience that really gave me appreciation for the family unit and the life we had created inside, you know, this teeny little plot of land in Los Angeles at the time.
• 12:32
  in a lot of ways felt very vital and and very abundant.
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  So while there was a lot of fear there, um, there was a lot of gratitude for me as well that we got to
• 12:42
  navigate that experience together.
• 12:44
  Mm-hmm.
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  And a higher purpose.
• 12:46
  We had we had a lot of purpose at that point in our life and and we still do.
• 12:51
  So for the next one, I'll share a story that was more about me and my own personal fears, and it still kind of reverberates from time to time.
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  And this is a bigger pattern of
• 13:04
  That fear of, oh my God, did I marry the wrong partner?
• 13:08
  Or oh my God, did I marry someone just like my, you know, mother or just like my father?
• 13:13
  And underneath that, like
• 13:16
  Oh shit, they may never change.
• 13:18
  Like I may be stuck in this.
• 13:20
  So this is kind of a fear of engulfment, a fear of being a victim to a circumstance that is unchangeable, um, unless, you know, divorce, but neither of us want that.
• 13:29
  And so it creeps up in like l l little moments, but there was a period of time where Jason would frequently buy almond milk or nut milk.
• 13:39
  that had sugar in it and I'd be like, can you please get unsweetened?
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  And he'd be like, I thought this was unsweetened.
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  I'd be like, can you just read the label?
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  And so it's it's not really like a scary moment, but it's just an example of
• 13:51
  you know, of all of his um things that that he does amazingly, which is many, many, many, um, one of the things that he's not as skilled at as I am is just a focus on the physical
• 14:05
  world in some aspects of matter, like like yeah, looking to checking the label to see if there's sugar in the in the nut milk.
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  Um and
• 14:15
  That kind of spacing out around the physical world is something I experienced in my childhood, especially with my mom.
• 14:22
  And so it it makes me feel alone.
• 14:24
  It makes me feel like I'm the parent.
• 14:27
  I'm holding reality.
• 14:28
  stronger than the person who's supposed to be, you know, in my childhood, obviously my parent, or in this case, you know, my partner.
• 14:36
  So
• 14:36
  I was projecting mother stuff onto Jason and feeling like I then was holding the masculine or I was in the parental role or and then I had a lot of uh
• 14:45
  you know, kind of ego around that, like, oh well I would never do that, or you know, I would um I'm more meticulous, I'm more thorough.
• 14:53
  Like the masculine's supposed to be the master of time and space, but I'm the master of space, you know, and
• 14:58
  That's not helping anyone, obviously, when my mind goes in those places, but that's one of those um really subtle aspects of fear.
• 15:04
  Sometimes you actually won't feel the fear, you'll feel the judgment.
• 15:07
  you'll feel the projection on the other person or the anger and resentment underneath it.
• 15:11
  And so peeling back the onion and realizing, oh, what it what's underneath that?
• 15:15
  What am I what am I really afraid of?
• 15:17
  Oh, I'm afraid of this never changing and this being just a symptom of a bigger issue that he's not really fully present in our relationship.
• 15:25
  And that freaked me out because
• 15:27
  like I said, of of having a childhood where I didn't feel like I was getting the presence I needed for my caregivers.
• 15:33
  So maybe if you're listening, it's not about sugar and the nut milks, but maybe it is about those for me it's like a pit in my stomach, like, oh shit, like I
• 15:43
  I can't get out of this and my partner's never gonna change.
• 15:46
  And then there's a lot of grief associated with that.
• 15:49
  Yeah, I would say it's the fear I think a lot of people experience when they commit to someone for the long haul of
• 15:55
  Oh my God, did I am I stuck in something that's never gonna work now?
• 16:00
  And what does it mean?
• 16:01
  And the deeper the investment becomes, in a sense, the harder it is to get out.
• 16:07
  So there's this feeling of right.
• 16:09
  the the walls closing in in some sense on the on the low end, uh, you know, the shadowy side of it.
• 16:15
  But it's the oftentimes, you know, what I think this shows up as is we we've talked about it before, it's the the relationship inflection point where
• 16:24
  All the fun and polarity and newness and difference starts to kind of decrease because you just interweave your lives much more together.
• 16:35
  And then all the old attachment stuff and patterning surfaces, right?
• 16:40
  And that's kind of the oh shit moment a lot of people actually don't get through because they assume, oh, if I'm feeling that, this can't be the one.
• 16:47
  Right.
• 16:48
  If I if I'm feeling that this can't be the one.
• 16:51
  And you know, probably my version of that would be some of just the huge fights we would have that felt like something
• 16:59
  You know, I was getting I would get loud like my dad used to get loud.
• 17:03
  And then nothing would kind of change.
• 17:05
  I wouldn't really change.
• 17:07
  And then I would walk around with this feeling in my body that she was harboring a lot of anger or resentment towards me.
• 17:14
  And that was something I had
• 17:16
  modeled for me in my family system.
• 17:18
  And there was just like, oh my God, after all this work, I basically am just in the same relationship my parents had.
• 17:23
  Like that was kind of
• 17:25
  Right, the fear, in a sense, my version of that totally wasn't the case because we actually can talk about these things and are growing and changing and developing.
• 17:33
  But thank God we have the context we do as relationship coaches and growth-oriented people to know about these things that are going to come.
• 17:41
  For any of you, for anyone listening, right?
• 17:44
  Um it's just part of the development of a relationship.
• 17:48
  And if you're not aware of that, that fear can
• 17:51
  End things.
• 17:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:53
  Because then if you don't catch it or shift it in your mind and in your communication with your partner, then weeks and months and years go by and it just gets a bigger and bigger story.
• 18:04
  Oh, I did marry the wrong person.
• 18:05
  Oh my god, they are just like my dad.
• 18:07
  Or oh, this is never gonna change.
• 18:09
  Like I better get out now before it gets worse.
• 18:11
  And
• 18:12
  Um, luckily, you know, I get in these relationship twilight zones where I I have a little bit of like, oh, whatever, undercurrent of resentment or undercurrent of um grief.
• 18:23
  And not that I'm perfect in any means, but it does help me, I literally tell myself, he's not your mom, he's not your dad, here's all the ways that he is showing up.
• 18:33
  So sometimes fear lives in the body, sometimes it is this visceral response, like to to something shocking in the moment.
• 18:39
  And that was a little bit more of our first example of Ruby's diagnosis.
• 18:43
  But sometimes it's actually just a story we're repeating in our mind.
• 18:46
  And that story is influencing the body.
• 18:48
  So I'm not one of those people who thinks, well, everything that happens in the mind affects the body.
• 18:53
  So change the mind and everything is fine.
• 18:54
  Like I do think we have to go into the body and heal things on a body level.
• 18:58
  But when we are in this looping pattern in our mind, it does help to stop that and to just say, like I said to myself, he's not my mom, he's not my dad, he is doing growth work, we are changing, and he's open a dialogue.
• 19:10
  If I say
• 19:11
  Oh, th there's sugar in the nut milk.
• 19:13
  He'll be like, Oh shit You know, he might have his own shame spiral, but whatever, we'll get through it.
• 19:19
  And then at the same time, part of me was like, Well, I remember one time I actually like filled my cup with with the nut milk and I was like
• 19:26
  Cheers to a little extra sugar in my nut milk because it's not like I was sugar free.
• 19:30
  It's not like I wasn't having a pastry or something.
• 19:32
  It's it's just I don't know, just this one little thing that my mind was fixated on, which is what we do when we're in fear.
• 19:39
  Like we get hyper focused.
• 19:40
  We can't take
• 19:41
  broader perspective.
• 19:44
  So an important one in just this realization that everyone's going to have, I think, at some point of oh, or or questioning, right?
• 19:52
  The fear of did I make the right decision.
• 19:55
  that we both kind of had it different parts in our own ways that I think everyone has and to just know as a couple is totally normal.
• 20:04
  Right.
• 20:04
  And particularly once you have the tools to go under the hood, it it doesn't have to be such a big deal.
• 20:10
  Do you want to talk about the Mexico one?
• 20:17
  This was um definitely one of the more challenging moments in in our life.
• 20:22
  We we were uh I don't remember how many weeks.
• 20:26
  Like eight weeks, I think.
• 20:27
  Like eight weeks pregnant.
• 20:28
  And um, this was before Ruby was born.
• 20:32
  And I was leaving for a men's retreat.
• 20:35
  with some guys down in Mexico.
• 20:37
  A friend had basically paid for my ticket because I didn't have a lot of money at the time.
• 20:40
  We were in a I was in a lot of financial stress.
• 20:43
  We were under a lot of stress.
• 20:45
  And we had a huge fight on the way to the airport.
• 20:49
  I mean like explosive fight in terms of you drop me off and you know we were kind of almost barely talking.
• 20:57
  I don't remember that, quite honestly.
• 20:59
  I think I was just so overwhelmed with the hormones of pregnancy and then impending miscarriage.
• 21:04
  Yeah.
• 21:05
  And then uh I got onto this plane
• 21:07
  And by the time I landed, she she was texting me that, yeah, you know, the I'm losing the baby right now.
• 21:13
  It's happening.
• 21:14
  And I completely froze.
• 21:16
  I just, I literally froze.
• 21:19
  Luckily, I just happened to be on the plane with one of the men who was coming to the retreat that I knew really well that I had that lived in LA at the same time.
• 21:28
  And so he kinda shuffled me into a car and got me to the place we were gonna stay, which was another friend of ours house.
• 21:36
  And I was just totally frozen because I did I just didn't know what to do.
• 21:39
  Right.
• 21:40
  I didn't know, do I do I go home right now?
• 21:43
  I can't even pay for a ticket, like it was extremely stressful.
• 21:48
  If I stay here, is she gonna hate me forever?
• 21:51
  Like I did not know the right answer to do.
• 21:54
  uh I did not know the right answer, right?
• 21:57
  I was just totally frozen of like, oh my God, should I be immediately getting home right now for this or what?
• 22:02
  And thankfully, you know, I came in a pretty frozen catatonic state through this doorway, and the men kind of helped thaw me out a little bit enough that
• 22:11
  We were able to have a conversation on the phone and we were able to form a plan for the weekend.
• 22:16
  And things ended up, you know, working out.
• 22:19
  But it was still a very tender thing to come home.
• 22:22
  and reconnect after that.
• 22:24
  And the great fear underneath was, wow, did the fight we have that I kind of, you know, created through some of my choices at the time, did that lead to the miscarriage?
• 22:35
  And that was like a deep, deep fear.
• 22:37
  I was kind of holding the whole weekend.
• 22:38
  Is she gonna, you know, think that?
• 22:40
  Is she gonna be mad at me for that?
• 22:41
  Is she gonna be, I ended up staying with the group because I realized I was in no state to care for her, frankly.
• 22:48
  Um
• 22:49
  And there was a lot of fear about what the reconnection would look like on the other side of that.
• 22:55
  Do you remember what it was like when you flew back and we reconnected?
• 22:59
  I mean, I don't remember being mad at you.
• 23:01
  I remember just being really sad and then you
• 23:03
  I think over the next few weeks, um, yeah, just feeling my distance.
• 23:08
  It wasn't in my mind because of the fight.
• 23:11
  And
• 23:11
  Yeah, maybe TMI, but it ended up being a blighted ovum.
• 23:15
  Like we never actually saw the heartbeat.
• 23:17
  And so my body was just releasing what was very early stages of pregnancy naturally that had been sustained.
• 23:22
  longer than it would have been because we were on progesterone and other things to try to get it to to stick.
• 23:28
  Um and luckily one of my good girlfriends in LA
• 23:33
  stayed with me and took me to the doctor and you know, helped me with all of the things.
• 23:38
  Um so I think this is really a story about
• 23:41
  When fear comes up in relationship, it's so important to have community and people you can rely on.
• 23:46
  And sometimes working through the fear is, you know, face to face with your partner.
• 23:50
  And sometimes it's actually getting resourced outside of the relationship.
• 23:54
  by sacred men's group or sacred women's circle, and then um feeling that kind of upliftment or buoyancy or holding so that you can be more generous and compassionate with each other.
• 24:07
  Yeah, and I think the this was a good example and uh in a hard learning in a sense where um part of the panicky part of of me was like I gotta be on a plane home right away because if I'm not there
• 24:20
  you know, she's gonna lose love for me, essentially.
• 24:24
  Um and instead, you know, what ended up unfolding was a good example of I was actually more useful not being there.
• 24:34
  And she was able to get deeply loved on by a female friend, in a sense, who could really nurture her in a way that I wouldn't have had the regulation for.
• 24:45
  Because of all the other wiring we were
• 24:48
  dealing with at the time and um my insecurity around it, I can feel my presence wouldn't have helped, let's just say.
• 24:58
  Because I wasn't regulated.
• 24:59
  So how could I co-regulate her if I was already in a place of distress?
• 25:03
  And I think this was a good example of me actually staying with my men.
• 25:07
  getting my feet back on the ground, getting anchored.
• 25:11
  It was the start of actually, okay, I I need a plan.
• 25:14
  Like, and these guys sat me down, like, how much money do you need to be made?
• 25:17
  Like
• 25:18
  like the deeper things that had been um causing the rift between us, this was kind of a point of, oh, I really have to look.
• 25:27
  I really have to look and make some different choices now.
• 25:30
  And it it was like, you know, a bunch of coaches sitting me down, like here like what are the steps?
• 25:35
  Do this, do this.
• 25:36
  Here's what worked for me, here's what didn't work for me.
• 25:39
  And
• 25:39
  it was coming back from that that I suddenly kind of had a bit more of a plan and I was connected.
• 25:45
  I was sourced.
• 25:46
  So, you know, we were able to kind of repair on the other side of that.
• 25:49
  And I was able to be more present with her
• 25:51
  with the grief and I think within 30 days, you know, I had two two new jobs and things like started to shift in terms of okay, uh, you know, I don't have to be uh
• 26:00
  a victim to the finances in a sense, which was then putting stress on our whole system.
• 26:05
  And that was just a good example of, yeah, sometimes you get regulated with other people so you can come back and really be of deep service to your partner.
• 26:14
  And for me, it was the learning to work through the fear of sometimes I don't know what to do.
• 26:21
  And sometimes there's not a right answer.
• 26:24
  And the way my mind works is there's always a right answer and I gotta figure it out because if I make the wrong choice, it's gonna be disastrous.
• 26:32
  And that was an example of
• 26:34
  Well, I had to kind of feel into and with support and coaching, you know, get just doesn't matter was it right or wrong, what was gonna work for me and for her?
• 26:43
  And that was a uh
• 26:46
  Unforgettable weekend, painful weekend, but an unforgettable weekend of um
• 26:55
  An incredible stressor and this starting to build sense after that of wow, if we can navigate these kinds of losses and stress on the system.
• 27:07
  I actually do think we're gonna be okay.
• 27:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:10
  And I think sometimes, this is my own belief, women have a little bit of a spidey sense.
• 27:17
  Like we will kind of pick a fight sometimes to create emotional closeness.
• 27:21
  in preparation for something hard.
• 27:24
  Like, maybe I knew that I was about to have a miscarriage.
• 27:27
  I mean, we had been to the doctor multiple times for early scans and hadn't seen a heartbeat, so it was likely that it wasn't a viable pregnancy.
• 27:35
  But
• 27:36
  I personally don't even remember the fight we had on the way to the airport because I think my psyche was focused on what was happening physiologically in my body and preparing for that and knowing that he wasn't going to be there physically.
• 27:48
  So um
• 27:50
  I'm not saying this gives justification for women being suspicious or picking fights or attacking verbally or otherwise partners, but I do think sometimes the feminine, in my view.
• 28:04
  kind of is on the cutting edge of where the relationship is going emotionally and things will come out emotionally from the feminine partner.
• 28:12
  uh in service of the relationship, in service of deeper conversations or deeper work that needs to happen, like in this instance, the deeper work was Jason making a plan with his men.
• 28:22
  And the deeper work on my end was getting more resourced and community and getting more connected to my body and going through a deep grieving process that I had
• 28:31
  kind of been doing around my business and the first year of marriage and our fights and all that, but it really, you know, hit home literally with losing the the pregnancy.
• 28:40
  And I that's I I yeah, I think I was
• 28:46
  in a tough place for like five or six weeks after that.
• 28:49
  And that was also in some ways healing because I had been a little bit more in the alpha in our first year of marriage.
• 28:54
  And so for me to be a little bit more um depressed for lack of a better word
• 28:59
  also created space for him to step up and show up in different ways and hold a little bit more of the alpha.
• 29:05
  And I think that served us for getting pregnant very quickly thereafter with Ruby.
• 29:11
  So the next one is when we went to Burning Man.
• 29:19
  Let me let me just say it before I get into the story.
• 29:22
  It was the fear of this isn't going to work.
• 29:26
  The fear of this is over.
• 29:28
  And the fear of if I keep going, something bad is going to happen to me.
• 29:36
  And we were at Burning Man.
• 29:39
  We had only known each other for, I think, eight months at the time.
• 29:43
  And
• 29:44
  I didn't know this, but we were camping with a lot of people who are in polyamorous relationship.
• 29:48
  And the reason this is relevant is because Jason and my
• 29:52
  first or second date, depending on how you look at it.
• 29:54
  I asked him how do you feel about polyamory?
• 29:56
  We've probably told this story before, but I'll just say it briefly.
• 29:59
  And he was like, I don't know, maybe I'll be into that at some point.
• 30:02
  Which was really triggering for me because I wanted to be in a monogamous partnership and I was really afraid of, well, what if I commit and we are monogamous and then 10, 15 years, 20 years down the road, he's like, oh, by the way, that polyamory thing I mentioned on our first date, like time to ch
• 30:16
  Time to cash that in.
• 30:17
  Like I'm ready to be with someone else sexually.
• 30:20
  And it triggered all my fear of abandonment and rejection.
• 30:24
  And
• 30:25
  Through that process, a lot happened.
• 30:28
  I really tried to, I think, somewhat successfully work through my fears.
• 30:33
  I
• 30:34
  We took a dance workshop, I was very transparent with him about my emotional process.
• 30:39
  Um I met up with a friend at we
• 30:41
  Center camp who was also at the burn that year.
• 30:44
  I tried to get resourced in my body and in my community.
• 30:46
  I tried to find my truth and share that with Jason.
• 30:49
  It was really messy.
• 30:50
  There was like three or four days, maybe even five days, where
• 30:53
  Um it was just pretty intense um because it felt like it was right in my face that this is where we're going, right?
• 30:59
  It was his camp, his friends.
• 31:01
  I'm like, oh my gosh, this isn't just a fleeting thought for you.
• 31:04
  This is like
• 31:05
  who you are.
• 31:06
  So again, I was projecting onto him and and creating this kind of rigid identity and fear of the future, projecting all these things into the future.
• 31:14
  But because we did so much emotional processing
• 31:16
  This beautiful moment happened, you know, day five or six of being there, where Jason proposed out of the blue.
• 31:23
  I was like, whoa, what's happening?
• 31:25
  And it was really exciting.
• 31:27
  And it's just a testament that kind of like all of our stories.
• 31:30
  When you stick with the process and work through the fear without giving up or shutting down or completely withdrawing from the relationship,
• 31:38
  There is gold on the other side.
• 31:39
  I mean, in my case, literally gold and diamond, but but metaphorical gold as well.
• 31:45
  Um, and I'll let Jason tell his part of the story, but I think
• 31:49
  My heart had opened enough through all of that grieving and processing and reflecting to be able to be a full yes to him when he said, Will you marry me?
• 31:59
  Even though I still had these fears, there was something that we built in terms of trust, trusting each other in our process and trusting our desires, and trusting our love and devotion for each other.
• 32:11
  And I think he would probably say, you know, that seeing me go through that process and him going through his own process enabled him to be like, wow, like there is something really here with Violet and I I don't want to let her go.
• 32:23
  Um yeah, I mean I would say my fear in that one was just if you've never been, it's it's it's a journey just to get there.
• 32:31
  Like just driving and lines and waiting.
• 32:35
  And so we had already been on the car, you know, probably sixteen hours and were crossing the line to get in, which means you basically once you're in, you're like in for the week, right?
• 32:47
  There's you don't really leave again.
• 32:50
  And we had just we were crossing in when this topic kind of blew up again and she was like, I don't want to be here.
• 32:58
  You know, I I I d I don't want to be here.
• 33:00
  And it was like, oh shit.
• 33:03
  Um like is this weekend, is this week already over?
• 33:08
  Right, in a sense.
• 33:10
  And then we had to navigate that as we went into the week.
• 33:15
  And yeah, the fear was um
• 33:20
  What happens, you know, part of my sticklerness around some of what was coming up was not wanting to say things that didn't feel true for me at the time.
• 33:28
  just to appease in a sense because it to me it would have felt like lying and as a nice guy kind of a people pleaser in the bat it was just always easier to kind of
• 33:40
  Bullshit.
• 33:41
  And okay, that this is the way to um ease someone else's.
• 33:45
  I'll just say the thing, even if it's not necessarily my truth.
• 33:48
  And having done a lot of work, I was getting more in contact with my truth.
• 33:52
  And there was just like some very specific languaging and stuff that I was getting really stuck on that I I didn't want to lie in a sense where I was like, I don't know at this point.
• 34:01
  Da-da-da-da.
• 34:03
  But the beauty of that was what what I learned was, oh, we can stay connected.
• 34:12
  Right?
• 34:12
  It's not easy.
• 34:13
  It's not like sunshine and rainbows like rave all night.
• 34:17
  It was like some real tension and taking space and coming back together.
• 34:21
  And um, I think a theme in a lot of ways of
• 34:26
  Our relationship from the get-go was it can be hard at times, but there's enough here that we want to keep coming back.
• 34:35
  together and in fact there's something really unique that starts to happen when we can move through the hard stuff.
• 34:43
  Because that was something that I think neither of us had quite ever had modeled for us or experienced before of, oh wait, these things that feel like they could end a relationship.
• 34:54
  If you actually just communicate and stay clear and honor yourself and get support, there's they don't actually have to end the relationship.
• 35:02
  Right?
• 35:02
  In in a sense.
• 35:04
  They're tools to build deeper trust and connection.
• 35:08
  And the more we've done that in our relationship, the more it creates a much deeper trust and relaxation of, oh, we don't have to be afraid of the big fights.
• 35:17
  Right.
• 35:18
  So the paradox is then you can go into them even deeper and like be even more authentic and even more true because we've moved through it enough times to know
• 35:26
  Oh, we can do that.
• 35:27
  So we don't have to pretend like where I think a lot of couples get into trouble of withholds, which then simmer into resentments.
• 35:35
  And
• 35:35
  You know, they have the research.
• 35:37
  That is the thing that kills relationships more than anything else.
• 35:41
  And so I had a lot of fear that weekend of okay, this what I thought was going to be this amazing fun weekend isn't going to be it.
• 35:47
  And maybe we're done.
• 35:49
  And through just how we navigated that challenge, partially in community with each other and other people, it revealed to me, oh, this is really unique.
• 35:59
  Right?
• 36:00
  What I'm experiencing with her is really unique.
• 36:03
  And even though it's really hard and really vulnerable and full of a lot of uncertainty,
• 36:09
  In the times I've really led in the relationship, she's been willing to show up and try.
• 36:16
  And that was really what kind of sealed the deal for me.
• 36:21
  Yes, I think you said that beautifully.
• 36:24
  Shall we move on to the last one?
• 36:27
  This is our fifth scariest moment.
• 36:33
  And it is about um moving, which is more recent one.
• 36:37
  This is all in the last like 18 months
• 36:40
  Yeah, so uh, you know, I had a career as a filmmaker in in Los Angeles and uh in a lot of ways California is my first love.
• 36:47
  It's a place I moved to right out of um
• 36:50
  high school and it just represented so much for me.
• 36:55
  Love the culture, love the people, love the land, still do in a lot of ways.
• 36:59
  And ended up really enjoying um uh my time in Los Angeles.
• 37:04
  And it became clear through uh having our first child
• 37:08
  changing housing market, our finances at one point, that it was just n not gonna happen there, right?
• 37:15
  That if we were gonna live there, it was kind of gonna be a renty type situation, and just a lot of uncertainty and fear with that.
• 37:22
  And so a whole bunch of things came together and it became clear that we were going to move and we did some um, I guess, explorations of different places, and then we landed on moving back to a um
• 37:35
  Colorado, where I had lived previously, had some community, we had some family.
• 37:39
  She had always liked it when we had been out there.
• 37:42
  And the realtor we were working with suggested we look over the winter
• 37:47
  Because there'd be a lot less competition for um buying, because most people want to move, right, around the school year and whatnot.
• 37:54
  And it so happened, something came up and it was within our means and
• 38:01
  um near schools and like checked a lot of the boxes and we put in an offer and it got accepted in um February.
• 38:11
  And our daughter was in preschool.
• 38:15
  And it became very, it just became very clear, okay, this is what's happening, and I'm not ready.
• 38:21
  And so I started to feel a lot of fear about the very thing I was just talking about of wow, I I can tell she's ready to go right now.
• 38:30
  Like
• 38:31
  Just let's do it.
• 38:32
  Let's go right now.
• 38:34
  Was done with the situation we were in.
• 38:37
  I wasn't, uh, both personally and I just felt oddly, really um
• 38:43
  Tied to my daughter finishing preschool and like having this whole experience she wouldn't remember, but I would, of like graduating and closure and all that kind of stuff.
• 38:52
  And um the deep fear that really dawned on me was, wow, if I don't really bring my forward my truth right now.
• 39:01
  In typical nice guy way, I could just go along with it and also in typical nice guy way could feel that would create a deep amount of resentment in me.
• 39:11
  And so this has had come up in different things we had done where then instead of it being something like warm and exciting,
• 39:19
  I would be kind of passively mad and resisting about it, which then would change the energy.
• 39:25
  So we'd be moving to our new home, a place of excitement and and
• 39:31
  uh you know, new possibility, but I would kind of be about it.
• 39:36
  Right.
• 39:36
  And the fear was I don't want to do that to her.
• 39:40
  or to my kid, right?
• 39:42
  I I don't want to go and feel resentment and like kind of pollute the experience, let's just say.
• 39:50
  And I didn't know what to do about it, right?
• 39:52
  And lo and behold, you know, I had a pretty frank conversation with my men's group about it when it became clear.
• 39:58
  And they helped me, they helped me just feel my truth of
• 40:02
  I'm I'm a yes to moving and I need a little more time.
• 40:07
  Right.
• 40:07
  And that's going to come with the consequence of uh rent and mortgage, right?
• 40:12
  That we'll have to dual pay in
• 40:15
  You know, we were doing better at that time, but still it was, you know, not a small amount.
• 40:21
  And the realization was if I don't bring this forward, I'm gonna
• 40:26
  make this transition in a resentful way and not feel good about it.
• 40:30
  And it's gonna ruin it for her.
• 40:31
  It's gonna ruin it for me.
• 40:32
  And I don't want to feel like that.
• 40:34
  So okay, I gotta, I gotta have this conversation.
• 40:37
  And so I literally went home that night and we had talk about
• 40:40
  uh I'm in and I don't want to go to the end of the school year.
• 40:43
  That gives us time to close out our lives here, to prepare, to enjoy the last things we, you know, really enjoy here and to just kind of stew a little bit in the transition.
• 40:53
  And um
• 40:55
  You know, we were able to get some support and make it happen and make a plan.
• 40:58
  And she totally agreed, right?
• 41:00
  It wasn't like a a fuck yeah out of the gate, but it was like a okay.
• 41:04
  Like
• 41:05
  She was willing to see where I was coming from and meet me in that.
• 41:09
  And I think because of that, I was able to transition in a much more positive, optimistic, kind of like.
• 41:15
  It was like we kind of got to wrap the bow on everything and do all the last things.
• 41:19
  And it was a great transition for me that
• 41:25
  Again, the the fear was, um, if I speak my truth, you know, is this going to cause more discontent?
• 41:33
  Which I think is the the fear for a lot of nice guys.
• 41:36
  But in this case, you know, I spoke my truth and it was met, it was received.
• 41:42
  I think that fear of speaking your truth comes up a lot in relationship.
• 41:47
  Maybe it's not such a big
• 41:49
  issue is moving, but even from the very first date or third date, like, oh, am I gonna say this thing?
• 41:55
  That's my truth, that could piss the other person off.
• 41:58
  And
• 41:58
  Both of us in our work with individuals say, yeah, you have to be authentic.
• 42:03
  You have to say the thing, you know, hey, I'm feeling a little frustrated, you were 20 minutes late.
• 42:06
  Like what's up with that?
• 42:08
  Versus, oh, no worries, it's fine.
• 42:10
  I had work to do on my phone anyway.
• 42:12
  Like
• 42:12
  There's so many ways that we cover our truth and then we don't have the capacity or the deep trust or the authenticity to get us through some of these tougher moments.
• 42:21
  Now, if you're listening and you're like, we've been together for 30 years, like is it too late for us?
• 42:27
  No, it's not.
• 42:28
  You can change a relational pattern.
• 42:29
  Within a few months, it does not have to take forever, even if you've been together for a really long time.
• 42:35
  But not looking at your fears and not learning how to work through your fears, that is actually the scariest thing in relationship.
• 42:41
  Because that means either you're codependent and staying together.
• 42:44
  but it's not really authentic and it's not really working for both of you.
• 42:47
  There's too much merging happening.
• 42:49
  Or you're independent and you're just living your own life and not really sharing your emotions or vulnerability or resentments and
• 42:58
  uh you're kind of probably living a little bit more from your head.
• 43:01
  It's hard to sustain any emotional and then long-term physical intimacy when you're living a very independent life from your partner, even if on paper you're still together.
• 43:10
  So
• 43:11
  One thing we love is helping couples as individuals get into their bodies and then as a shared unit, as a couple, get into the embodiment of your relationship.
• 43:20
  And what's the unique
• 43:21
  flavor and texture of that and how do you get through these tough moments and how do you celebrate the wins and really enjoy so much of the really magic moments and how do you intentionally create more of that magic so that
• 43:33
  even the hard times actually feel in a weird way kind of good, like a good workout at the gym and and build more and more of a foundation where your relationship is a resource.
• 43:42
  Because we've been talking about
• 43:44
  scary moments as a couple.
• 43:45
  But I mean there's so many scary moments as individuals too, right?
• 43:49
  Things that happen when it's just you with your kid and your partner's working or things that happen when your career changes or something with your health changes and
• 43:58
  If you can get together with your partner and work through the fear as a couple, it gives you not only a resource for the relationship, but a deeper toolkit within yourself that
• 44:07
  Yeah, life is uncertain and there's so much we can't control.
• 44:10
  And at least I have an amazing partner and we've cultivated this amazing relationship.
• 44:15
  And wow, I also have a whole new skill set to work through
• 44:19
  Fear, shame, anger, grief, you know, all these shadowy emotions that come up, and that can really derail us as couple and as humans.
• 44:28
  Sometimes when a fear comes up in hindsight after you work through it, you look back and you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad.
• 44:35
  You know, like as we were talking about all these things and like, oh, that wasn't so bad.
• 44:39
  But I think it's because of how we handled it and not that we did it perfectly, but that we we grew through these experiences.
• 44:45
  We found benefit in these experiences and we became stronger and had deeper trust and and still more passion and more emotional connection.
• 44:52
  um versus something that becomes like a phobia, right?
• 44:55
  If you're scared of a spider, every time you see a spider, it's like re-traumatizing.
• 44:59
  But thinking and talking about these things as well as Jason mentioned our podcast on our top biggest fights
• 45:05
  Looking back, I can have almost a fondness for these moments.
• 45:08
  And I think that's my wish for all of us is that whatever we have that's a fear doesn't turn into a phobia, that we can right-size it into just a growth opportunity that we responded.
• 45:19
  through in a really beautiful way.
• 45:21
  And that's something I want to gift our children with and kind of the world is like how do we create even stronger, more resilient nervous systems and relationships?
• 45:29
  Because I think that's what we need in our families and in our society.
• 45:34
  So the more you learn to work with the figure as a couple, the less it is gonna run your couple dumb, right?
• 45:42
  And these are just some of the examples from our life of where deep fear came up.
• 45:46
  And we had to learn to navigate that as a couple, right?
• 45:49
  That's that's the whole
• 45:51
  whole jam here that also relies on outside support sometimes when um we can't necessarily handle it together.
• 45:59
  And
• 46:00
  It's just part of the journey for any couple.
• 46:02
  There's going to be moments of a lot of fear.
• 46:05
  And again, learning to actually turn towards it and not run away from it, not hide it, not mask it, not
• 46:12
  um ignore it or avoid it.
• 46:14
  That's one of the most powerful things you can do as a couple.
• 46:18
  And it in fact becomes one of the great gifts of
• 46:21
  The resource of your coupled dumb is actually getting regulated so you don't get overcome with fear of, okay, how do we move forward in our lives in these moments that are really important or meaningful or impactful for us?
• 46:34
  And it's something we're really passionate about, both in our relationship and with the clients we work with and with the couples we work with.
• 46:42
  And so if you're listening and want to take your
• 46:45
  relationship to a deeper level.
• 46:47
  You can work with us through our Evolutionary Couples program, our 12 Epic Dates program, and you can also
• 46:54
  Take our free webinar, The Evolution of Us, which is kind of a free date where you can get a taster and really go deep with your partner to learn to reignite the spark and reconnect the deep.
• 47:05
  parts of yourselves and also repair when there is fear or challenge or rupture in a sense.
• 47:13
  And you can check that out just by going to evolutionarycouples.
• 47:16
  us
• 47:18
  slash evolution of us and it'll give you all the information of how you can participate in that.
• 47:24
  Until next time.