Latest / Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle / EP 21: How Predictive Maintenance Could Change the Bike Shop Bench with CrankPal

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EP 21: How Predictive Maintenance Could Change the Bike Shop Bench with CrankPal · Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle

• Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): I've always been looking at the customer first at the cyclist. what are the... pain points on one side, unpredictability of maintenance, but on the other side, we're also all human beings and we want to have that relationship with our local workshop. And this is why Crankpal does not pretend, to substitute the local workshop knowledge. We only facilitate the forecast. of a breakdown. We don't do a diagnosis. This is very clear in all our communication. It's very clear in all the touch point marketing website, app, workshop, UI. We want to empower the workshop. We want to provide them a tool that allows them to do better maintenance and have a better conversation and relationship with their customers. Brandon Morphew: Welcome to Spokes and Strategy, Marketing the Bicycle with Brandon Morphew and Chris Melman of Miso Partners. Welcome to Spokes and Strategy, where the business of bikes meets the joy of riding. Let's picture the scene. You hand a customer back their bike. Maybe you don't hear from them again until they come in when that bike starts making noise. maybe they need it for tomorrow. but that moment, you know, between service visits and when a customer is gone, can a shop stay connected? in a way that feels genuinely useful to the rider? Can knowing more about the bike make the work more predictable? And there's a practical question underneath all of it. Does technology help the mechanic or just give them one more thing to manage? I'm Brandon Morphew, and today I'm delighted to be joined with Umberto Javaroni and Nico Abruz A.C. I I know I butchered that, Nico. and they're both from CrankPAL. We're gonna hear, Nico: Nice to meet you. Brandon Morphew: it's great to meet you two. We're gonna hear how they're building this business, what they're learning from working shops, and where the idea meets the reality of a full service bench. So before we get into any of that. let's start with riding bikes. So Umberto, is is is there a ride you know that you think of that you come back to and what makes you keep choosing it? Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Hey Brandon, thanks for having us at your show first of all and thanks for the question. Yeah, that's one specific ride that I keep getting back to probably because of accessibility, probably because I consider myself more of a casual rider. But here in Milan, where we're based in Italy, there is a very long and accessible ride called Naviglio Martesana, which is basically... an old river canal that goes from the city of Milano way, way out of the city in the suburbs and in neighboring cities, completely fat, completely accessible, hard surface. And that's the place where I like to ride my bike. I like to ride typically my Cinelli and I maybe spend one hour all the way to Gorgonzola, which is a town that shares the same name of the famous Italian cheese that you might be accustomed with. And I choose this sometimes, you know, just to clear my mind even during working days, especially here at Crankpall, we're working on so many ideas since we started the business and sometimes I really need that, you know, my self moment where I just ride there without many concerns about traffic and I can just ride as much as I want and once I'm halfway there, I just turn around 180 degrees, ride the same amount of time back home. and back here working and today interviewing with you. Brandon Morphew: Do you find do you find the rides are a reflective about the business or are they like a way to escape sort of the the the day to day? What how do you how do you see them? Or maybe it's both. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Yeah, maybe it's a combination of both, know, being also a father of a very young child, he's almost four years old now. Sometimes the day gets really busy, know, juggling between work and family commitments. So would say it's a combination. Maybe the ride starts about being just, you know, me and clearing the mind and maybe on the way back I take that opportunity to go back to ideas that... I've been working on and sometimes some of the best ideas that we implemented in Crankpal typically I would have said they come under the shower. No, that's not the case. Most of the time they came while riding the bike on the Naviglio Martesana. Brandon Morphew: Very nice, very nice. and and Nico, how how about you? What does riding look like for you these days? And and what is a what makes a good ride for you? Nico: well I I I I'm a triathlet. I was in the national team in Italy for many years and so riding is is an everyday sport, which I love and I continue to love despite all the injuries and despite everything else that goes with that. so for me a normal ride is starting from I go to the the north of Milan and then I from the Royal Pal the old Royal Palace and I drive towards the hills. there's a beautiful kind of loop that goes around the lake and it's just gorgeous and especially this time of the year when it's not so hot anymore or it's not too cold either. It's just gorgeous and you you come back home and you feel like you've seen the world already and your mind is clear. So it's like a it's a great start of the day. I love that sort Brandon Morphew: Fantastic. Nico: of ride 'cause it brings brings me back to the the reason why I always got into this d you know, this business of being on a bike. The freedom that allows you to You know, and and there's so many little side roads that you can take depending on the day and depending on how much time you have. So it's never just the same road is is the beginning and the end is always the same and the the middle is always the let's go where it takes. Brandon Morphew: And and if I'm not mistaken, you you own a bike shop, correct? Nico: Correct, yes. I started a a bike shop dedicated specifically to triathletes, knowing the the the the complexity that goes inside, you know, each and every one of these bikes and the the the the the psychological component as well of the the the the bike industry that goes into especially riding such, you know, Star Trek kind of bikes, you know. So that Brandon Morphew: So I I find I find shop owners are are sort of on one o one or one side or or the other of this debate. So you spend the day looking after other people's bikes, you're you're spending all this time on everyone's. when it comes to your bike, does your your your bike get the best best treatment or is it more like the cobblers cobbler's kids have no shoes? Nico: No, I have the uttermo respect for uttermost respect for the the the the the the one that I'm riding because I've had so many accidents because of it in my life. Brandon Morphew: Mm. Nico: Then and then poor maintenance has always been a real big deal. It th I think that's kinda got what got me into the bike industry in the first place as a as an owner of a bike shop. So maintenance is a big deal and therefore my bike is always in pristine conditions and I know exactly when things are are about to leave me. And you know, as that's kind of in a way, i it it's what brought some ideas as well into the idea of crankpile and you know, the the the the the maintenance that is always needed. Brandon Morphew: Fantastic. I love it. well, let's transition a little bit about your background. Umberto is the founder and CEO of Crankpal. his background includes bicycle and aircraft maintenance, along with years working in operations and urban mobility. Nico is Crankpal's CEO and partner. he also runs a bike shop in Milan. so there's a working service bench connected to this conversation, not just a product idea. Craig Powell brings together workshop management software and a rider app designed to estimate when individual bike components may need attention. What interested me about this relationship underneath that is a rider is trying to keep their bike working. I think it's in your interest. And a shop is trying to look after that rider without knowing when they'll next come through the door. So before we get into that system, I want to understand. You know, why the two of you decided this was a problem that that you wanted to spend time on. So what what brought you to this point? I I I'll start with you, Umberto. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Yeah, that's really good question, Brandon. I would say you just mentioned this. So my background is aviation mechanics. so I, by training, I really have a different approach to maintenance compared to what typically the bike industry faces when maintaining bikes. So typically we wait for things to break down and then we get to the shop and maybe it's... it gets trivial to get an appointment at your local shop to get things fixed. You get frustrated, the shop gets frustrated because so many people want their bike ready without any sort of plan or any sort of virtuous process that allows us to absorb peaks of demand and plan accordingly to what the shop capacity is in terms of repairing. So basically what led me to really reflect on this I say it's really, I'm getting back to that three years old kid that I mentioned earlier. So recently I've been teaching him how to ride a bike and this led myself also to get into cycling a little bit more frequently and also because of that maintaining my bike. And part with this also I also had to some sort, yeah of course my background is aircraft mechanic, aircrafts are more complex machines typically, but you know, every mechanic, car mechanic will always tell you as well that the bike mechanics are different. So it doesn't mean that because you're used to maintain more complex machines that translate immediately to the bicycle, no, it has its own specificities. I'm telling you this because when I became more... a more frequent rider. I also took some classes here in Milan for bicycle maintenance technicians and during those classes the question I kept asking to the teacher was whenever he was telling us about how to maintain any sort of component of the bike, the first question I would ask would be how often do we have to do this process? How often do we have to do these maintenance procedures? And most of the time the response was, depends. And it really makes me a little bit laugh, it depends, because I couldn't really accept this as an answer. But at the same time, I do understand, I did understand why it depends, because if you look at any component on a bike, typically you have three separate clocks that are running and determining the wear of that component. And those obviously, I'm sure our audience knows. they are like mileage, they are like time since the last service of the component, and then we have a coefficient which is connected to weather. Some components degrade more quickly when they're exposed to weather. So something from these, I do understand why it is complex because we're not used to make any sort of log or calculation of when we do have to maintain simple machines. let alone more complex machines where we have several components running on different clocks with different coefficients. It is really complex. And looking at the industry, I couldn't find a solution that could respond to this complexity in a simple way. Yes, there are some applications that allow you to log your bike components, where there are some workshops management solutions that are trying to approach in a modern way reminders for the customers but I couldn't find something that would close the loop between the two sides of the problem and use the information coming from the cyclists which in our case in Crankpal it's information on the right, it's information that we cross-referenced to the weather, that their bicycle was... encountered during the rides. And on the other side, think what is really innovative and it's also part of a patent-pending application we filed several months ago, is this feedback loop coming from the workshop. So basically whenever CrankPal, CycleSap predicts that some component of your bike needs any sort of maintenance, the machine learning algorithm validates that prediction. by looking at what happened in the workshop. And this doesn't require more work, as you said, or some more complexity on the workshop side. It really understands this by looking at the work order in the workshop, by looking if something was replaced without explicit information being requested to the mechanic in the workshop. We're just assuming this. We can see this from the information. that is already available to the system. And this feeding this virtuous circle where the machine learning algorithm becomes more more precise by looking at all this information. This is how I would say we got to the question in the first place. Brandon Morphew: but I want to give Nico a chance. Umberto first approached you about a pilot for this workshop, and and you know, for your shop and and what made you go from, you know, I'll take a look at this to I wanna help build this? Nico: Well, you know, it it's interesting. I I come from a very mixed background in in media, marketing, advertising and sort of similar to Umberto I've been exposed to a lot of very different kind of scenarios of technology and how it plays a part in in the service industry or in the marketing field. And as an owner I just was appalled with the stuff that I could see out there that was really the communication filler for these two worlds, you know, in the bike industry In Italy in particular, there's not a lot of really I would say modern players that are actually interacting between the consumer, being the cyclist, and the workshops in an effective way. And so I was on the hunt for a product that would support what I need to do in the workshop and support workflows with you know best in class standards and things that you see on apps from the everyday, even from a user experience design perspective, down to the component that speaks instead to the the the the the consumer at the other end or the cyclist really that you know wants to be safe, wants to be wants to know when things are breaking down without having to have a degree in in bike mechanics, you know, and and I think that when that scenario clicked in my mind, I got super interested because I felt that I could provide some insight and some obviously kind of expertise in in the field that was closer to the the the relationship between mechanics and and and obviously and and cyclists but also in terms of what happens at the the receiving end of someone that is in a sense is a is an hyperuser of of cycling as a means of transport as a ch as a sport and and seeing in a sense the bit that was missing as the now we're accustomed to tools of communication that are extremely sophisticated. we cannot speak to the customers the way that our parents used to speak to them. You know, it's no longer I don't think it's a no it's a l any longer a value a a a valuable kind of paradigm that would that would stand the modern market, which is moving so so so much faster, at least here certainly in Italy, towards a service industry. The components and now the the the the brands are very much direct to customers. So how do we create a a a unique, amazing service that people are happy to pay with pa pay for, sorry. And that that was the bit that was really missing for me. And when Umberto came and showed me the the the the prototype of the product, I was super intrigued and I thought, you know, this is what I always wanted to see out there. So I wanna you know, how do I how do I help build it? 'Cause, you know, when it's not there and you have the chance to to build it from scratch, there's something that I could influence in there in the things that I was looking for, so got very excited about this. Brandon Morphew: there yeah, was there something when you guys had that first conversation and you first got to play with the with the tool did you was there something that you said, well this is you know, this is not gonna work on the floor. Nico: know I'm blowing smoke, but is it's the product was so mature already. when Umberto showed me the first time and it was embryonic to be honest compared to what it is now, I was so like I was shocked. It's like, my god, finally, finally I mean you could see where, you know, it takes his service industry expertise, you know, having worked at Apple, having worked in, you know, free now and spaces that obviously make out of the service expertise obviously a gold standard. you can see that all that logic was already embedded into the thinking behind this product. I was like, this is this is gold. This is amazing, you know? Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): And if I might add a little bit of color and human touch to this, I'm having so much fun building this, really. I'm like reapplying years of corporate jobs and I'm like, you know, it happened. I'm so glad that this happened, know, this opportunity happened, this idea came not under the shower, not during the ride, but while doing main back maintenance. Because I'm having this amazing opportunity, I'm putting it inside. There's a lot of work hours a week. My wife is not happy about this, but hopefully this is just going to be temporary. yes, Nico said, I really reapplied some of the best practice from neighboring industries. And I think this is not because me or Nico or the ideas that, yeah, mean, they are pretty good. But I think that the real reason why this is happening today and we cannot, you know... hide around around this. It's because of the tools that enable us to develop this. mean, we are obviously relying on AI coding tools, which made this possible with a very, very small capital investment compared to what it would have required four years ago, two years ago. And I think we're really living a period, historical period where A lot of these new opportunities are going to come and we're going to see this kind of opportunity more more frequently because frankly speaking, the bike maintenance industry is not like a super huge, huge, huge market. So it didn't justify an investment of developing such a complex solution. Complex but obviously easy to use also. I don't want our listeners to misunderstand me. mean complex in terms of building. So I don't think anyone would have had the resources to build and would have not made sense to build something so advanced for such a niche market, niche industry. But nowadays, this is completely switching. It's changing because you can rely, if you have a good idea and you have some... technical expertise, product management expertise, you can rely basically on an amazing team which is extremely scalable and allows you to iterate and pivot very quickly and this is what we're doing at Crime Pals. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, I I I agree with you. I I think you you brought up two points that I think are really interesting right now. Just in in the you know, sort of the arc of of of humanity, you know, I think this this move to service, I think is a really good insight. I think and w we talk about it. It's been something that's been talked about, you know, with both with clients, with with industry associations and and I think it's a a recognized movement. I think this is a it's a good insight. And then, you know, the use of AI, the tools, whether that's for coding or or lots of other uses, you know, it's it's everywhere. I I I have an anecdote I'll share and I have a I'm food tracking. I'm I'm my I have a weight goal. I you know I let myself get a little heavy. I I hurt myself and and got injured and then I ate ate my feelings. And so I have been tracking my my food and I take a picture and it knows what it is. But if it doesn't, I'll just tell it what it is and it will, you know, capture everything just from a conversation. And and to me, like it's not Doesn't take a long time. It's it's like that. It's such a such an amazing moment in time that, you know, and it's scary. I I know a lot of people get worried about AI and things, but it's a great point. Now I'm gonna push a little bit here, Umberto. Take me back. Nico joins, you guys are having that, you know, early conversation from your point of view. It's perfect. We know it's perfect, but what was one of the pieces of feedback that you got from from the from the bench from from the shop? Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Some of the pieces were about reducing the complexity. I would say that the first iteration of the product... If we were to count the features, today's features are more than the first iteration, but it's the way we present them to the customers, the way we present them to our users. What we're doing now in the product, it's nothing we invented, it's just something that it's a best practice where we're applying, which is called progressive onboarding. When you first sign up to CrankPal, and maybe you sign up to the free plan, initially we were showing all the features the first time you logged in, features would show up even if they were not included in your plan with a little lock. a symbol to basically show you that they were there, available for upgrading, slash upselling within the platform in a self-serve way. But then we realized based on both Nico's feedback and also on other pilot shop feedback, this was overloading for people to understand. So what we now do is when you first use the product, some of those features are not shown to you. So as you progress into adopting the system, doing your first invoice, your first work order, your first quotation, you will see a new feature popping up, but slowly. We want to make sure that you really first absorbed and understood the basics. The basic life cycle of any workshop is quotation, work order and invoicing. This is like super simple. micro steps that you go through. So everything which is in between, additional to that, inventory, suppliers orders, we progressively introduce to it, we progressively expose you to it. And we also obviously measure all of this. And we've seen that the time... from sign up to first invoice. We measured the time from sign up to first work order, the time from sign up to first invoice. And we noticed that this is working out because those signs are reducing and people are sending the product more quickly and they're converting more on the platform. They're it more by just this simple change in our approach. Nico: Yeah. And and if I may, Brendan, one one thing that it was actually Brandon Morphew: Nice. So Nico, yeah, jump in, jump in. Nico: it was happily in there. another feature that was kind of key for me, for instance, I you know, manda as a bike shop, you know, hey you inventory management is a major problem, right? You have thousands of suppliers potentially providing one single piece or one that might need provides eighty percent of your inventory, but then another thousand to provide one tiny piece beast at a time. So that was a major Brandon Morphew: Yep. Yeah. Nico: deal for me when with Umberto we decided to come up with this idea of the universal catalogue, you know, which is in obviously is very regional country specific, but it it it's the it's such a game changer because all of a sudden when I'm starting a as a as a shop, even to try the product as a shop, I don't have to fill the shop. with the products. The products already in there. They're already maps. They're already, you know, Shimano's products, Rams products, obviously the the big suppliers providing the the the the the the big end of the scale of course of delivery from bits and bobs to wheels and you know, y you name it. But th th those simple and this is where I got really interested that that simplicity of going from a simple idea, hey it would be it would be great if we could have universal catalog that you just have to search for things and if you don't find them then you can just order them right away. I work kind of with more of a boutique shop if you will providing a service for which I don't hold a huge amount of inventory in my store. I kind of work on a drop shipping basis which helps me keeping my cost as a new business very low and everything. So it's really super handy for me to have all that already there. I don't have to create a product every single time I I need it I have a new one. That makes a huge difference. But what made a big difference was the fact that from that idea to actually seeing it live, it only took one week of implementation. And that was the fun that was the bit that ultimately made me think, this is this is a brand new world. I can, you know, that was exciting for me. Brandon Morphew: Take Nico, take me into the shop. s software aside, let's think about service right now. What's what's the hardest part of of service in your shop right now? What what's the d most difficult piece to manage? Nico: The the the hardest bit for a shop like mine, which is, you know, th I do bike fitting and work with triathletes most of or endurance athletes, which obviously have significantly expensive bikes for which the customization again I was as I was saying is a lot of tiny pieces. That therefore you can chunk out. So being able to manage orders effectively, being able to have things on time so that you keep the bike for the least amount of time in the workshop you know, first triathlete that goes out four times a week, having the bike in on hold for a couple of days, that's not gonna work. You know, so that's that part of service for instance for me is super important. it's important for my customers and therefore becomes my top priority. So speed of management from logging in, you know, making a quote even before they arrive to my shop and having kind of figured out the products that they're gonna need, how long it's gonna take for me to get them, and only when I've got everything ready for them come into the shop. I go and pick up in Milan, of course, you know, people don't drive very happily. It's a very you know, lots of traffic. So I take my van to them, I pick up the bike, fix it. get everything done, bring it back perfectly speaking span, and within a day. So that service is highly valued. and i you know before crankpal the the amount of effort that would be on me as an owner to manage all these components, sending the figuring out what's needed, getting the the orders on time, figuring out the the van sort of going around Milan. Figuring all these components was more than a full time job. Now it all you know, I'm not gonna say magically because it's not magically, it's technology, but it's kind of undistinguishable from from magic every now and then, which is what I love about this, you know. So yeah it's kind of moving Brandon Morphew: Yeah. You're reminding me, Nico: from less than ideal to fully ideal and spending more time with the customers. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, you're reminding me of an experience I had recently. It was a positive experience, but I I dropped a bike off and I it was two weeks, you know, is like which is a long time to to leave to be without. I'm fortunate I have, you know, more than more than a couple bikes, but this was, you know, this is a a a problem I think for a lot of people, for consumers. Umberto, i I think the core idea around crank pal, if I'm not mistaken, is that this, you know, the the shops, you know, is Reach isn't the problem, the marketing, it's not about reach. it's about this in-between visits. And so, you know, and it sounds like the product is more than that, which is really interesting interesting to me. But but what what convinced you that this was the problem that needed to be solved? Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Well, This is a very deep question, I would say. So we have to distinguish, obviously, what kind of cyclists we're talking about, I would say, in terms of what is the problem that we are addressing here with our solution. So we mentioned so far some kind of cyclists. We mentioned the casual cyclists. We mentioned the triathletes. But there is a huge spectrum in between of different kinds of customers for a workshop that have different expectations. But as you rightly address, it's also about the communication, the relationship that this customer has with their shop. And in order, believe, for a shop to really be able to provide a customized experience on the base of the persona. of who they're interacting with really goes through communication. And this is why within the platform, it's not just about predictive maintenance. Yes, this is our main differentiator, I would say, compared to other apps or other CRM management solutions for workshops, but it's also about facilitating that relationship with the customer. And we are customer centric, I would say. Nico mentioned his experience as a workshop owner. I work for Apple and I cannot think of any other large corporation that at least defines itself as customer centric. So while looking at the product from an helicopter view, obviously, I've always been looking at the customer first at the cyclist. And yes, what are the... pain points on one side, unpredictability of maintenance, but on the other side, you know, we're also all human beings and we want to have that relationship with our local workshop. And this is why Crankpal does not pretend, you know, to substitute the local workshop knowledge. We only facilitate the forecast. of a breakdown. We don't do a diagnosis. This is very clear in all our communication. It's very clear in all the touch point marketing website, app, workshop, UI. We want to empower the workshop. We want to provide them a tool that allows them to do better maintenance and have a better conversation and relationship with their customers. I would say, it started as a moment about the opportunity of the maintenance being more predictable. But as we unfolded the problem, we really realized that maybe it's even more important facilitating communication between the two stakeholders and providing also a common land which abridges... the discrepancy between the two personas. On one side you have like the super expert shop owner, mechanic working in the workshop. On the other side, you might have a cyclist that is not mechanically inclined and providing them a tool that translate their conversation. know, it's kind of a Rosetta Stone in between where the cyclist can simply look at, know, we recreated as you might have seen on our website from a UI perspective, both the workshop and the customer have this same view which kind of resembles the cockpit of a car with the LEDs in the car you have like the oil LED or like the indicator that tells you that you need to do your interval maintenance on the car. On the bike we identified some group of components like drivetrain, brakes etc and you know very quickly at the glance and this is international, we don't even have labels in these icons, these are like universally understandable. And I think that this, know, it's a small detail about what we built, but I think it's very important because it really facilitates the communication no matter who is the cyclist, is is background and allows us to serve, you know, the largest possible audience, I would think. Brandon Morphew: I I think that's great. I'm actually there's I think it was I think it was GFK, but it might be misattributed. But there's this idea that like if you think you've communicated enough, say that thing ten more times. So like th this this this this like as humans we we we miss this part. I I I'm a I'm a huge proponent of over communication, even though I might not always do it. That's I'm guilty of not always being overcommuting. But I I wanna pull this thread a little bit because communication is It's a it's actually a pain point not just in the consumer connection, but but also in technology. And I think one of the things that we're seeing. So we we we're in this great place as a marketing agency where we get to we look at all the endemic technology, right? We're we're we're spending time with the the POS systems and and the integrations between the those and the marketing platforms and and trying to, you know, understand I I guess two parts to the question. One is around your role in that. Do you see this as we've talked it came up as POS and Nico talked a little bit about it as as, you know, maybe it there's even a component around a transaction, you know, so it's it's actually playing a role as a as as a as you know payment processing. the there's also the marketing integrations and and one of so we see a bunch of technology that's outside of the industry that's sort of more You know, we work with more mainstream Shopify sites and Clavio email marketing and all sorts of among others. Like th those are all so one of the things, the ideas that we're starting to see is this sort of headless software where it you have a a piece of of of the consumer journey that you've thought through and you have it and it connects in with Claude or with OpenAI, you know, ChatGPT or or or some other tool. And you're able to manage a lot of this, you know, with all of your pieces. So I'm just I guess my question is like what what where do you fit in this ecosystem? And then do you view this tool as something that integrates well, plays well in the sandbox? Because I'm I'm I'm thinking about adoption. And so how are how are the folks listening gonna incorporate this into their you know, current current tech stack? So I maybe you could walk me through your thoughts on that. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Yeah, definitely, totally. And you really bring up a very good point. So I will start from the second question, then leave the headless question at the end, because Nico: Yeah. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): I think it takes a different... We need to touch different topics on our side to address that one. But anyways, so integration-wise, What is our approach? So, in Italy, we launched all the plans, which are basically we call them free, premium and pro. And the pro one also include the POS payment system, contactless payments, electronic invoicing, which is extremely specific to the Italian market. And in Europe, it's very fragmented. In Belgium they have a different electronic invoicing standard, same thing, they're about to roll out in Spain, so there is a huge topic of compliance. And this is kind of the reason why we segmented our pricing and our rollout strategy internationally, because we are able to offer all the features that we have in the free plan, which do not include electronic invoicing and do not include payment services. and we will be prioritizing the localization of those futures in those markets where we see higher adoption of the free plan. So this is just to tell you how we are approaching this level of complexity. But that being said, we also play well with third-party platforms. We don't have a lot of integration now. They're mainly local for the Italian market, but as Nico mentioned, a little while ago in the conversation, we are really able and very agile in creating new integrations. And now I'm just giving you an example, which is not about an integration that is on the workshop side, it's more like of integration with the ecosystem in the bike industry. We'll be integrating with 99 spokes, with BikeMatrix, and we started a conversation with these partners. back in July, but we started again talking with them about the technical aspects of this and it will take us less than one week to integrate with them. So what I'm saying is that if we detect, we encounter a lot of demand about a specific integration in any specific market where we launch, we launched in 54 markets just 10 days ago, we will be looking at integrating those and this is our commitment. So we don't want to be a sandbox. We want to be open to what is already out there. we're seeing a lot of variability across markets. So some markets have like maybe a legacy local solution, which have been all included cookie cutter solution. Other markets like the US, because the POI system are so evolved, are more relying on external integration for all that part of the management of the store. And we have really an unbiased opinion on this and we will be adapting to the local market, looking forward to do that and learn more about the markets. But at the same time, we also offer what you call the sandbox solution, but I don't want to call it, you know, as a captive sandbox solution where we do it strategically because we want to capture whatever the offer of other people and operators doing other pieces of the... of the ecosystem are doing. We're just doing this because we also believe at the same time that sometimes people prefer to have one single relationship with one supplier of software solution. this also allows some time for better integration and more straightforward use, especially for smaller shops who don't want to several subscriptions with the POS system, a subscription with the electronic invoicing. system, is the case of Italy. In Italy, for example, with 99 euros per month, you can basically have all of these three suppliers in one solution with us. And if you do the math, it costs you less, it's less stress, you don't have to deal with the three different invoices coming every month and so on. yeah, quick answer to the question. We're open to both. We see ourselves as an open player and Anyone who approached us and wants to integrate with us, we spoke with them and we will be speaking with them. I think this addresses that part of the question. Now getting to the headless question about the tendency of a gigantic solution, etc. We're obviously looking at this. We know that this is a huge trend. are, like ourselves, users of some of the tools that enable us to build a CrankPal. But at this specific time, it's only about some experiments that we ran. We don't have an actual product. But definitely, if we see that demand grows in that direction, we will be focusing our priorities from a product roadmap perspective also on enabling that kind of channel. we believe that... Basically, the central system, the processing system, the shop is going to be the same. We already have a very, very advanced abstraction layer where machine learning is heavily involved. It's just going to be a different channel how people are going Nico: Yeah. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): to interact with the same engine that we're building. Brandon Morphew: So thank you for that. I appreciate it. Nico, let's move back to the shop. think of a real customer. Walk me through their bike's experience with Crankpal. So you know, what have you actually done? You know, what what does that first service record look like? It if any, you know, what is the follow-up then afterwards? What does that process look like? Nico: Yeah, I I mean I have firsthand this one customer which I've got his bike literally here in the workshop. He's a triathlete and he clocks around five to six hundred kilometers a week easily. does Iron Man mostly, so that's not even high intensity. so before the summer I exposed him to what the app could do and so he started going into the system. He was one of the first that I logged in 'cause it's bit of a I would say he's one of my favourite customers, but also we're good friends. So I knew I could count on him for good feedback in that sense. And straight away his first reaction was, okay, that makes total sense. So finally someone that is I don't have to do the maths for you. You can I can just turn on this thing. And you know, we're now in August, so a few months late down the track, and he's he's got some really good wheels. of course he's gone through the tires, like just know tomorrow. So the tires are to be changed and in the app that's already kind of visible and so he just called me up and said hey I've got a race in a couple of weeks. why don't you come and pick up the bike for me. So I scheduled he scheduled an appointment directly on the application. I received when he wanted the bike to get picked up. In the meantime he's I knew from from the the app that he had already the the the tires were short, most likely the chain wasn't in a good condition. I logged it in when if I looked at the bike the last time. And so the the goods were already in in the in the workshop by the time I went out and picked up the bike. And he as they were working through I had an estimate off to him of what is was gonna cost him. I of course I cleaned up the entire bike so as I opened the the the the the bike of course there's a ton of dust and and and sand everywhere because it's been by the sea, so doing a lot of training there. As of course I have to kind of look at the bearings and that's quite expensive. So I stopped the work and I sent him a quick sort of estimate that arrived straight away on that very day on his you know, we have a little widget app that is on his phone. And so, you know, he's happy that for me to c to get it fixed. He he actually laid a comment. All of this happened without a phone calls. The workshop is receiving all these messages in real time. There is no the the approval of the new components, which are ceramic bearings, which are quite expensive, etc. you know, all happens in real time. He knows exactly that beyond that expenditure, I need to call him up and say and have a conversation. And this is all happening in 24 hours, you know, it's not a week worth of work. and so then The bike is ready to get is being completed, so he receives a message, books a time for delivery, the van has that day has a bunch of delivery to do, and the application already tells him what the best route around Milan, which I guarantee you by itself is there's some magic mat mathematic that goes in there because the land's traffic is hideous. Anyway, you know I don't want to go too long, but I think you're getting the picture. This all this little moments of connectivity for him are just a message that blinks on his screen where he has to tap on a button and approve or, you know, send a decided time and it's just so seamless. There's no open Brandon Morphew: Is Nico: this email and go to that link and then download this other thing and then once you've done that, call this guy. It's like all that is happening very seamlessly. Brandon Morphew: So is this yeah, is this happen so d d does the customer need to download an app as well, the consumer with like or or do they get this through text message or email? How does that work? Nico: They they have they have an app that is essentially the the new kind of development 'cause obviously we we just launched it and is in is in beta the app itself, but all that I'm telling you is happening in their customer portal, which is kind of completely visible on their phone. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): And yeah, to address Brandon Morphew: Yeah, go ahead, Roberto. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): your question, Brandon, sorry. Yeah, we try and we think it's in the best interest for the workshop and the cyclist is to use the app as a communication channel because it allows us to provide real-time updates. As Nico said, we also integrate with the live view inside the iOS and the equivalent in Android. So even when you're on your lock screen, you can see the progress of your bike being fixed at the workshop. And so, you know, it lowered the anxiety of the cyclists, it lowered the chances of getting, you know, repeated phone calls just to get an update on the status of the job. But that being said, it's not the only communication channel. We believe it's the best, in the best interest to use for the stakeholders, also because you're fighting in text messages and emails. you're fighting for attention, you know, in so much other noise of the emails that you're receiving. So knowing that, you know, that channel is dedicated to your bike being taken care of and receiving updates on it, we believe brings another value experience. But that being said, you know, we also know that we, we, the workshop have, you know, different customers and it's also, we're not expecting, you know, my mom was 75 and seldomly uses. a smartphone to use an app and download an app and install an app just for that and then she also only brings her bike once a year for maintenance. We're not expecting that and that's why the product also includes, as you mentioned, as a means of communication, email and in Europe, know, it's very popular. WhatsApp, I know in the US it's not as much but in South America and Europe it is and so that's why we're also supporting that channel as well. And the customer, know, typically when he gets signed up, depending on what address and what phone number was typed in during registration, which can be done either by the cyclist or the workshop staff, they can register the customer on their own. You know, it will choose what's the favorite channel. If they don't install the app, it will rely on email. If they have on file. a mobile number, it will relay on SMS and so on. So we have this multi-channel Brandon Morphew: Better. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): communication. Brandon Morphew: So moving into the the the actual bike and and the where, are are you finding and and do you have enough data now? Are is the where estimates that are coming through from the app lining up with what the mechanic is actually seeing on the bench? Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): So they are, but we also want to be very transparent, not just here with you, but we are also inside the app. We are still heavily relying on declared manufacturer, the expected lifetime of their components. Because we obviously have the same problem that all two-sided platforms have, the so-called cold start problem. As long as we don't have enough users on the platform to enable the machine learning algorithm to make a better prediction compared to the physical heuristic prediction, the algorithm will rely on a physical model which is based on we have known data from manufacturers about the expected lifetime, we use that data. If we don't have that data, we... you know, we fall back on the category aggregated average of components of which we have data about. So short answer, yes. When the algorithm declares that the prediction was made by him and it's flagged on the app, on the iPhone, on the CycleList facing app and on the Mechanic app, if we say that, it's because it's actually happening, we're able to do a better prediction. When we are not, it will show and will say that it's relying on a physical model. based on the data that is available to us. But, you know, hopefully if we have this conversation again in a year or so, I will be able to say that, you know, the highest percentage of the prediction that we're doing by then will be done by our machine learning data. Brandon Morphew: I I like that. I I I will I'll hold you to that. so Nico, let's say look into the future. Th this is all, you know, maybe it's a year down the road, this is all going well. What what do you get more room for in the shop that's difficult to make time for now? Nico: Very good question. I think more time the you know in in my specific customer type, the ability to spend time researching there's a plethora of new components coming from of of course the Far East, but also an amazing set of high end manufacturers here in Europe that are s you know taking ownership back of their you know. the tiny beautiful components that are really making the difference in marginal gains is all the g what is all the being talked about. So sp being able to spend time A researching those components, B connecting them with the customers and being able to advise on what's actually happening. That is a tremendous value add service, which at the moment I really don't have the bandwidth for because the workshop is still half running as it should be with with the platform and half is running in you know in the old old fashioned way if you will. And so that's what I'm really looking forward to do, 'cause I love what, you know, being able to have that expertise is the reason why I started this business in the first place. And be supported by a platform like like Crankpal is really to me taking hours out of my out of my day. that I normally would spend behind the computer instead of being in front of a customer. Brandon Morphew: good vision. And and Berto, for you, same kind of question, but think about the the rider. what you know what what's changed in their experience? What would make you proud of of what you've built? Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): So what's making me proud, would say, is obviously we launched, we started the pilot program a couple of months ago, but publicly launched 10 days ago. But I'm extremely, extremely proud of the feedback we're receiving from cyclists as well, not just from workshops. What's being appreciated, it's really the transparency that the use of the app enables. So a year from now, I would think that we would be able to measure downtime of our users' bicycles, right? So I would want to see less unplanned, unexpected breakdowns, which we could measure by looking at the data coming from the workshop. And I would love to see that positive trend and see how Crankpal was basically the enabler of this better customer experience. And then obviously, know, also the traditional feedback coming from surveys, unsolicited emails of customers saying they love our product. But, you know, I think we also have the potential to really look at the data and compare it to today. And today, obviously, as the adoption is growing, we are still seeing, you know, that some of the work orders that are being recorded by our workshop users were not planned non-scheduled and comparing that in one year from now and seeing that this has been radically changed would really make me proud. Brandon Morphew: Well, I I really appreciate, you know, both of you taking your time. Thank you so much, Umberto, Nico, for joining me. and and hearing about the the crankpal, the idea is is great. I think I I see this as a great opportunity. I I I I couldn't agree more that that this sort of between time is fantastic and I wish you both nothing but the best here. I think it's it's crankpal dot com. Is that correct? For if people are interested, and then We'll we'll make sure we include that in the show show notes. I really appreciate everyone who listens. whether you're, you know, heading into a shop, you know, finishing the day at the bench or or making some more room in your in your day for for a bike ride. I'm Brandon Morphew. this is Spokes and Strategy, where the business of bikes meets the joy of riding. We'll see you next time. Umberto Javarone (CrankPal): Ciao Nico: Thank you.