Latest / ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence / Dr. Vignesh Devraj on Ayurveda’s Holistic Approach for Modern Living (#051)

Transcript

Dr. Vignesh Devraj on Ayurveda’s Holistic Approach for Modern Living (#051) · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can have the best access to best doctors, you could have access to the best medicines, or you could have the best insurance policies, but still you just cannot buy health.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be lived and earned by daily choices that you make.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what are these choices?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: What food I eat?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: What time I go to sleep?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: How I how is my stress coping mechanism?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: And am I doing good exercise and taking enough time to recover?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And is my nutrition wholesome with all the elements that my body needs?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And am I able to say no to things that are unhealthy to me?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So all of this contributes to your healthy living.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen people who are taking responsibility for their life, they are more inclined to such holistic methodologies.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So in Ayurvedic textbooks, it was written centuries ago, there are two types of diseases diseases because of malnourishment and disease because of overconsumption.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And as the quality of life in a community gets better, the nature of disease will also shift.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why today we have more people falling sick because of overconsumption rather than diseases of malnourishment.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in Ayurvedic textbooks, treating diseases of overconsumption is a challenge.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is mentioned at that time because okay, let's say you are having a deficiency problem.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you have vitamin D deficiency, you go and top up the vitamin D from a pharmacy pill, get a pill that will enhance your vitamin D3, or let's say your B12 is low, get a pill that will help you or change with your diet.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe incorporate dietary changes that will enhance your vitamin B12.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if your blood sugar levels are high, your uric acid levels are high, your triglycerides are high, it's not so easy to eliminate it out of the system.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, in such situations, so allopathic system has been phenomenal in treating diseases of malnourishment, diseases that are infectious in nature, near death experience, somebody is having stroke, somebody is having heart attacks, somebody is having an accidental case.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to enhancing the quality of your life, so if I have to put it bluntly, allopathi is an answer to the question, how can I enhance the longevity of a human being?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Ayurveda is an answer to the question, how can I add more life to the rest of my years?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's why there is a saying, you know, success without fulfillment is worse than failure.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to understand what is what you are striving for.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you have all the money and success, but your health is not there, what's the point?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have all the success and money and health, but if you don't have good family and friends around you because uh you're not an easy person to get along with, then again, how do you share your life and spend good memories and relationships with?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So everything has to come in place, and that is why it's it's a balanced aspect of everything that will come around.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So today, more and more people are realizing just focusing on one aspect in your life is not going to give you happiness and fulfillment.
• 3:26
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• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've got a hundred-year-old legacy, right?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of this whole system of treatment, and uh you know it was all started by your grandfather, and uh, you know, can you tell us the the heritage, the vintage, and that's something that I think I'm very keen to understand and uh you know so what that what does that history bring to you and how does it help you today?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So in the 19 early 1920, I mean it was 1921, so a few years before that, the then Maharaja of Cochin, so he saw that there are a lot of good Ayurvedic clinics and vaidyas in those uh at that time they were vaidyas.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there were a lot of vaidyas practicing in Malabar region, that is northern Kerala.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So at that time he said, Okay, it's time that we also have such institutes in uh near the part of Kochin Trichur region, which is the Kuchi Maharaja.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it is the 15th uh Maharaja at that time.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, and he initiated with a few people who are quite enterprising, one of them, my great-grandfather and his two cousin brothers, all three of them started this institute called Siddharam Ayurveda.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, in Trishur is also like an epicenter of you'll see a lot of Ayurvedic manufacturing units, hospitals, which is quite well known.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's considered to be the capital of Ayurveda in Kerala, actually.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that is where it started, and then it's uh it continued in the family and uh to have a business sustained for more than 100 years.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it didn't grow big, but it did sustain for more than 100 years, and over 700 employees are working, uh, doctors, therapists, uh, people who are cultivating the herbs, sourcing it from the local areas, directly and indirect jobs are being provided.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's a it's a small institute, but it's a very fulfilling uh you know mission that this institute is continuing.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so what's that uh heritage and uh the knowledge that got built over hundred years?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how does it get uh uh you know archived?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: How does it get passed on to generations?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so how does it happen in this case?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So few decades ago, you know, you would sit with your um whoever is your immediate uh wherever you are inheriting this knowledge from, you would sit with them, and when the patients are there, you sit with them and learn with them.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like an internship throughout your life.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So during my childhood days after my school, I would spend time with my father, and I'll be in the backyard of the pharmacy where you'll see a lot of herbs, and sometimes some herbs are not uh tasty, but some sometimes you'll see a lot of jaggery there because it's also mixed.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to be fond of stealing those jaggery, but sometimes when you fall sick, they used to also give you a lot of these herbal decoctions, we call it kashaim, which is not so tasty.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is when you have that family lineage, you get a better start understanding how many things are being done, and you see the father, you see your own father treating patients, and you see the different kinds of patients, and you see all the medicines, how it is being prepared, prescribed.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that exposure is one of the ways it is being inherited.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: But today, however, uh after uh the the late the 19th century, I mean sorry, the late 20th century, now institutionalized way of teaching has become the norm.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to go to a college and get that studies done.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go to a uh we have this course called Bachelor of Ayurvedic Medicine Surgery, which is for five and a half years of course, and now we have a uh centralized university called Kerala University of Health Sciences, which is approving that.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So now that is how most of the Ayurvedic doctors are.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I personally, for me and my father, we went to a college to study that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: But before that, it was all of a uh you see and do, and it comes with a lot of learning, and they would have gone to a guru and learnt it from there.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so when you look at the uh you know uh the modern medicine, which is really the English medicine, if you were to call it, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: The Western medicine versus the uh the traditional form of uh Ayurvedic uh way of treatment, and uh is the learning between what is there in the Western medicine and the learning in this form of uh you know therapy and uh medicine?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is it very different?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you think are the differences and what are the benefits that uh you see in this uh uh you know in this style of uh education and what do you think makes a big difference uh when you study Ayurveda and go as a you know Ayurvedic Vaidian as you call it, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, why how is it very different?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you try to there is a huge difference how the allopathic system is uh treating and how the Ayurvedic approaches.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, see Ayurveda is a documentation of how humans interacted with his surroundings.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So at that time the rishis and people who observed how human being is being interacting with the surroundings and how that is impacting him and what could be done to improve it, what could not be done to improve it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So many things that are written are still useful, many things that were written at that point of time, we don't need it anymore because the times are changed.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: However, certain fundamentals are relevant and it will be relevant for the future as well.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you know, our body is a very ancient design, it's uh lacks of years of design, but our surroundings are upgrading like a lot.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Today I can sit and talk with you.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, which is just a few decades ago, it was impossible.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: We will see it in James Bond movies, and before that, it would be some imagination.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the the kind of technological advancement that has happened, and but our body is the same, so certain fundamental rules of the body is the is quite is going to be the same.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: However, modern medicine they had the breakthrough with antibiotics, painkillers, steroids, immunosuppressants, so and blood thinners.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: This was a revolutionary uh discovery that led to enhance the longevity of human beings.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the past, we were very afraid of infectious diseases to what extent it can kill.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the germ theory, it helped people to come up with antibiotics and kill the germs, and it'll change.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, on one hand, modern medicine is a result of humanity's question: how can I prevent human beings' death?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you when they keep seeing people dying, they want to know how to prevent death.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, everything when you go to an allopathy doctor, the first thing that their mind is, how can I continue this person being alive and how can I prevent pain?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: These are the two things they will look, and then the quality of life will come, which is quite uh a way of looking at it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you look at Ayurveda, there was no antibiotics, there was no microscope.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was very considered to be with your all your six senses, and I mean your sixth sense and your understanding of how you perceive nature and how things are changing.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there were many herbs, there were many minerals, there were many lifestyles, and accordingly, they documented okay, if a person stayed awake very late at night, he has a tendency to have a spectrum of disease called Vadharaktam.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: This was documented a few centuries ago.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you look at Vatharaktam, it is the most appropriate correlation of today's autoimmune diseases that are mentioned in the allopathic medical textbooks.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, autoimmune diseases, it is something where a disease is caused, and we do not know what is the origin of it because we are trying to look at what is the single most cause that is contributing to it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you are not sleeping for two or three days, it's quite difficult to understand that through a blood test or an MRI or an X-ray.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It will be a subjective uh parameter analysis to understand if somebody is sleep-deprived.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that when you compound it, it will have an impact on your health in your hormones, in your immune system.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So these kind of observations were written.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when we and today, what is happening with the invention of light bulb, people are staying awake late at night, and our body is actually designed to live in scarcity, we are not designed to live in so much of abundance that we have.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in Ayurvedic textbooks, it was written centuries ago.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: There are two types of diseases diseases because of malnourishment and disease because of overconsumption.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And as the quality of life in a community gets better, the the nature of disease will also shift.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why today we have more people falling sick because of overconsumption rather than diseases of malnourishment.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So in Ayurvedic textbooks, treating diseases of overconsumption is a challenge.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is mentioned at that time because okay, let's say you are having a deficiency problem, let's say you are vitamin D deficiency, you go and top up the vitamin D from a pharmacy pill, get a pill that will enhance your vitamin D3, or let's say your B12 is low, get a pill that will help you or change with your diet.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe incorporate dietary changes that will enhance your vitamin B12.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if your blood sugar levels are high, your uric acid levels are high, your triglycerides are high, it's not so easy to eliminate it out of the system.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, in such situations, so allopathic system has been phenomenal in treating diseases of malnourishment, diseases that are infectious in nature, near death experience, somebody is having stroke, somebody is having heart attacks, somebody is having an accidental case.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to enhancing the quality of your life, so if I have to put it bluntly, allopathy is an answer to the question, how can I enhance the longevity of a human being?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And Ayurveda is an answer to the question, how can I add more life to the rest of my years?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it is uh in today's world, we are not designed to live in such a comfortable, uh abundant life.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: We are actually designed to live with a lot of challenges and scarcity.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is how the human body is designed, and in such a way, Ayurveda helps to bring back those uh ancient roots that we are actually uh you know designed for.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that is where it is becoming more and more relevant today.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so Dr.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Vignesh, uh, when I go back to your own story, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what's interesting for me was uh uh you know you are not uh you know you are a reluctant uh you know uh Ayurvedic Vaidian, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know you went through a lot of tough phases, then you went, uh I read your story, and it's interesting what you went through, and then finally uh you know today where you are is uh you know you are a big believer at the same time you practice it.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So so where did this turnaround happen and uh what's that moment that is was like a you know a light bulb moment, as I would if I were to call it?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was forced into this uh because of family pressure, and my sister did not want to uh pursue uh become to become an Ayurvedic doctor, and since you have an institute and she was very good at numbers, and she wanted to pursue being a finance uh so she pursued chartered accountancy, and uh and she was very clear this is what she wanted to do, and so my father said, Okay, somebody has to take up the uh heritage and inherit this, and it has to continue.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So he said, You have no option, you have to continue this.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point of time, I also did not know what actually I wanted to do.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine, somebody is telling me what to do, so let's just go and do it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And after studying, uh, you read about a lot of ancient things, and I'm thinking, How is this relevant today?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't make any sense.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: At that point of time, that was my thinking, and then uh, whenever you fall sick, the best way is to take a paracetamol and you feel better, and it changes things.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're having a pain, you take a painkiller, it immediately changes.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I see doctors prescribing all this, to uh how is this really going to make a difference?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, my initial there was a lot of rebel inside of me.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they giving such decoctions that are not so tasty and that are um not so easy to consume and making people do treatments that are so difficult to undergo?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And how on earth would people pay and sign up for these kinds of therapies?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: This was my um rebel inside of me, and then because of my own lifestyle where I had sweet tooth and unhealthy uh sleep hygiene and uh unhealthy eating habits, I started getting a lot of allergies, and it was purely because of my lifestyle, and then sometimes uh my father, my other teachers with under whom I was studying, they would say you can take this Ayurvedic medicine, it should help.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was taking it, yes, it would have a uh mild symptomatic reduction or certain changes, but still, when the flare-up happens, it would happen, and then I had to take a modern medicine to really subside, but then it will come back any other time.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point of time, I was like, Okay, what should I do?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: This Ayurvedic medicine, it is giving you a mild recovery, but when I do the allopathic medicine, it is suddenly giving you a change, but at the same time, it will come back later, it's just that the snoos uh duration is longer for allopathic medicine compared to the Ayurvedic, but it's not like you are completely getting, it's only minimizing it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then my father said, You have to do this therapy called pancha karma, that's the only way you can recover from this.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then I thought, okay, I tried this allopathic system, it's also giving you a snoos button relief that uh it it again it can come back the moment you get triggered, the moment you're exposed to that trigger.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then after I did this panakarma, I could see that for almost like six to seven months I didn't have this allergy.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it would show up every two, three weeks or maybe a month, but then for six to seven months it didn't show up, and again it came back.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is after I did the pancha karma, I saw a relief that nothing else helped me.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So this was my personal experience.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't say that this will this is going to be there for everybody else.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when I did that, I realized okay, so it's actually my own lifestyle, and all of that is contributing to what I'm going through.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do panchakarma, it's giving you a jump start to what it means to live healthy.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So today, what is happening?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the the benefit of modern medicine is it it gives you the most easiest way for recovery.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the disadvantage of modern medicine is it also gives you a notion, okay.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I am diapetic and doctor prescribed metformin to me.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I continue with the metformin, it's okay, I can still continue my same lifestyle.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the idea that you will have to have a radical turnaround in your approach to your relationship with food, exercise, your stress-coping mechanism, that is missing there.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: But some somewhere, yes, metformin is a phenomenally, you know, it's one of the best inventions when it comes to treating the metabolic disorders.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea that you don't have to change your lifestyle, that was a big concern here.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, but when I did the pancha karma, what I realized it gave me a jump start and also made me realize, oh, I want to continue this healthy lifestyle, and that is where I could connect the dots back, and whatever I studied on theory and paper, I was able to make sense of this, and that made me realize oh, this there is some profoundness to it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do more research, let's do more analysis on this, and let's see how we can make it easy for people to understand and how this can actually be a game changer for many people's healthy living.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fantastic.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So great story because you know, always when somebody who uh Practices it, uh, you know, starts to apply it, then obviously that's far more power than just giving some advice and going away, right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, it's a great example of what you believed in, and therefore, that became a commitment.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so what did your research throw?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, because this whole thing about you know instant gratification, you know, uh short-term solutions for my you know uh problems, that's really how the world is going, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, uh you know, I just can't wait to do a 21-day uh, you know, uh, you know, I would say uh if I have to do uh this kind of a treatment, okay, uh it's it's it's it's a 21-day period.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can just uh you know swallow a pill, I can do my work, uh, and uh you know I just can't go and do these kinds of uh you know long winded uh stuff.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, what did your research throw up?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, if you look at the definition of Ayurveda, okay, it talks about the fact that it is a unison of body, soul, and your lifestyle, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: That it's a mix of all these three that needs to come together if you really have to be away from diseases, which is very different from so it's almost like saying it's important to prevent the disease, and and it actually goes to the root cause of the problem, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Which is very different from the modern medicine.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, to ask a short question, what did your research throw up and what are the interesting insights that you would like to share with the audience in terms of what are the myths that you would want to break about the modern medicine versus the traditional form of uh you know an Ayurvedic way of uh you know uh doing uh you know, say your disease management and the rest of the stuff.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is what is the difference and what did your research throw?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: People who take responsibility of their health are more inclined towards such holistic treatment methodologies, and we have to understand you can have the best access to best doctors, you could have access to the best medicines, or you could have the best insurance policies, but still you just cannot buy health.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be lived and earned by daily choices that you make.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what are these choices?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: What food I eat, what time I go to sleep, how I how is my stress coping mechanism, and am I doing good exercise and taking enough time to recover?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And is my nutrition wholesome with all the elements that my body needs?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And am I able to say no to things that are unhealthy to me?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of this contributes to your healthy living, and I've seen people who are taking responsibility for their life, they are more inclined to such holistic methodologies.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, when you say uh taking responsibility for their health, how do you define responsibility for the health?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Say, for example, you talked about uh you know nutrition, so there's a lot of uh you know, I'm saying dietitians who are uh who are there, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, they say do intermittent fasting and they talk about keto diets, and you know, I think that today it's become a lifestyle uh advice that people give you.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, when you talk of nutrition, how do you see nutrition which is holistic vis-a-vis some of the things that are prevalent today?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I must confess uh nutrition.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still a learner, I'm really scratching the surface of nutrition.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Why I say it like this, because this is the most controversial topic, according to me, in this world.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people who are vegetarians who are very unhealthy and healthy.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen non-vegetarians who are healthy and unhealthy, I've seen vegans who are healthy and unhealthy.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh to come to an inference, I feel there is a confirmed bias.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if I am a vegan because of my own reasons and I am healthy, then I can say it is because I am vegan, I'm healthy.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I could come to that correlation, and I've seen meat eaters who are extremely healthy as well.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's food is one of the aspects, however, if you are avoiding junk food, if you're eating processed food, if you are eating uh food that has very long shelf life packaged with no nutrients, then it's not about what kind of uh whether you're vegetarian, vegan, or non-vegetarian, it's the nature of the food that has that impact.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is one thing I found in the nutrition, and also the the quantity of food, if you overeat definitely that will have a problem.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: But also, on the other hand, it's very difficult for people to overeat healthy food.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can overeat a lot of unhealthy stuff because it tricks your feedback loop, and you can overeat that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: How much you can overeat fruits and vegetables, you will say, Okay, this is enough, but you can overeat a lot of pizza, you can overeat a lot of desserts, you can overeat a lot of heavy sugary fried food because it tricks the nature of the how the body behaves, the when the body has to say no.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is what I've found out about nutrition, and as an Ayurvedic doctor, when people come with different problems, especially if it's a metabolic disorder or a non-communicable disease, a lot of time I invest in explaining to them how to change your relationship with food.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just prescribing Ayurvedic medicines is just one small aspect of the treatment.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that is where nutrition plays an important role.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm trying to say here is having a routine in your food consumption, having a routine with your sleep timings, this has a huge impact in your metabolism, and that is where Ayurveda talks about routine plays a powerful role in your vitality and your agni, that is your metabolism.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when you see today's nutritionists, we are obs when we see today's nutritionists, we are so obsessed with the calories.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, calories is a good way to quantify the energy of a food.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: However, how the body is going to respond to that food, how the body is going to process that food, it is also see the same petrol in three different cars, you will get three different mileages, it's the same petrol.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Some cars you will have a very bad gas and fumes, and maybe it doesn't even start.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, some people as soon as they consume food, they feel grumpy, tired, bloated.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Some people, after they eat food, they feel energized, some people they feel very heavy.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just the the food prescription, it's also enhancing the ability of the body to absorb the food.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Both has to go hand in hand in order to have a proper recovery.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And when you say uh you know you advise people about how to change your relationship with food, uh, what does that mean?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: How how do I interpret that?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You see, food is the most powerful non-prescriptive antidepressant today.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we are designed, our body is designed to eat as much sweet salt and fat.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is where the energy comes from.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're deprived of glucose, you could faint, you could, and if you're deprived of salt, you could have an electrolyte imbalance.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And fat is a very important part in your diet.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: However, when our body was designed at that time, getting all these three things was quite scarce, and you need to work a lot to consume these kinds of these three things.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: But today, by sitting and pressing some buttons in your phone, it comes on your tabletop what to eat and how much ever you want it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's today, more people are having food for entertainment reasons rather than energy reasons, for the energy reasons, and and in order to change that from entertainment to real energy reasons, a lot of emotional well-being also has to happen.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm uh sugar or salty food or fried food, it gives a lot of comfort or emotional comfort to people.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm stressed, maybe let's go and eat some sweet, it'll help me feel good.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it and it's natural because uh when you eat this, it gives you energy, and our ancient brain and nervous system it is designed in a way when you are stressed, you need more energy.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when you consume food, you have more energy to deal with it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how, and also, brain is a very energy-draining organ, it it consumes a lot of your energy, uh, so that you know all the information is passed through the nervous system to different muscles and different organs of the body, so that every time you get stressed, the tendency to consume heavy food is quite high.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we are wired for.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And nature, on one hand, it has designed our body to live in scarcity, but on the other hand, we are also wired to be fat.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to fight our genetics.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: In today's technological advances were you know, heavy, rich in sugary food is so much in abundance, so we have to fight that genetic gravity to live healthy.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it comes with a lot of self-discipline, and that self-discipline comes with emotional well-being.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where this concept comes.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you are saying it's so connected with your emotional well-being.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, so how do you define emotional well-being?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, if you were to dig dig deep into emotional well-being, what does emotional well-being mean?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, emotional well-being means your ability to deal with uncertainty, if it is very good, your emotional well-being is quite good.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are having a knee-jerk response to any uncertainty that is going on, you're not able to handle slight changes, and if things are not going your way and you are disappointed or upset or sad or depressed, then your emotional well-being is at stake.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be worked on.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: But what does that have to do with medicines?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say uh sometimes you know you would have heard people they had a they heard a very bad news and they got stroke, or they had a they were going through a stressful period and they had a stroke or they had a heart attack.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does it have to do with the body's response to like that?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when I am stressed, my body will release certain hormones, and these hormones will have an impact on my physiology.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if it is not a healthy release of certain hormones, and if it is not contained properly, this could compound and lead to a pathological problem.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you will see somebody who gets getting who has a tendency of getting angry, there could be a high possibility they could have ulcers and high blood pressure.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, emotion has an impact on a person's uh energy levels, emotion has an impact on a person's immunity levels, your ability to digest somebody.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: If they get afraid, they could have a diarrhea, they could have a fright or flight changes.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that is where emotions will influence your hormones, your hormones will influence your body's physiology, and if it is in the right way, right physiology, wrong way, it will lead to a problem in your body, which later become disease.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So having an emotional well-being plays a foundation for a healthy living, it's not everything, but it contributes to that.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now when I look back and compare that, I'm not saying you know I am against or for Western medicine or whatever.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I see this as a more holistic approach to well-being and health management, and I'm not saying that uh you know here is a uh you know uh here is uh you know 100 GB bandwidth, and then you know everything moves very fast.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the way it is.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you're saying these are all connected, and how important is this uh you know interconnectivity of your emotional well-being to your disease, to your uh you know ability to handle uh you know stressful situations, uh, you know, and therefore treating it holistically is far more important than doing short-term, if I were to call it band-aids in your in the way you manage health.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you are saying?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just throwing some uh you know words.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I it it's not your words, but I'm just throwing those words because I am, for example, a big believer uh in this holistic system, right?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: For example, you know, I've done Piritchel myself, okay, and uh you know I do abhiy and gami every 15 days, okay.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and therefore I am I I see a big difference in how I uh you know how I get energized, okay.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so therefore I understand that uh, but the most important thing is you are actually talking about a holistic way of approaching life versus oh, you have got a problem, here is something that I will give you.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's a very very big difference in the way you look at solving a problem of a disease or a medical condition, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: See, uh you cannot just there's no one single cause that can lead to a problem, there could be multiple causes, and there could be one solid trigger that could make it worse.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: So usually what happens because we love to connect the dots and look at the cause and effect.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll I'll give you an example.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of my friends, whenever he watches uh India play at cricket match, he has to sit in one particular chair and he will not go to the toilet.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and he thinks his bladder control capa efficiency is responsible for India winning the matches.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh that's the way they connect.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So so there are multiple reasons why you know certain things can happen, and sometimes it could be uh not the right approach to connect the dots.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes uh we need to understand what is actually the real cause of it.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's always multiple causes for certain reasons, uh certain situations to occur.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when you look at a holistic approach, you put all the foundations right.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when the foundations are right, maybe this such a situation will not happen.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say a school child he gets uh gets into addiction problems at a very young age, and then the father and the mother they come bring the son and starts blaming uh that the son is like this, something is wrong with him.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's always getting uh you know prone to these kinds of addictions, and then they were trying to change the school because the school has a tendency where uh the possibility of getting these kind of substance is quite high.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: But is every kid in that school having this addiction problem or is just him?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's just I mean, or only few of the kids having this, and if the few of the kids are having why certain few kids are getting into such a personality where they get they are prone to get into such addiction?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, is there something to do with their parenting?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something to do with their home emotional environment that is contributing to it?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that is where all of this okay, changing the school where such access is not there, maybe it could be a symptomatic change.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the moment such an exposure can happen, for sure the surrounding plays an important role.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people say when I live in big cities, I tend to put on weight when I live in a place where there is no access to such un swiggy or such unhealthy food, I don't put on so much weight because my access to these unhealthy triggers is very limited.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, you need to have that ability to say no to things, and in order to say no to that, you need to have good emotional well-being, and that is why, in a holistic approach, food, medicine, lifestyle, stress-coping mechanism, your sleep, and your time, you know, all of this comes together, and that is where it contributes together.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: But tell me, given how the world is going, uh, is this uh is this out of tune, this philosophy?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because uh, you know, I I need to work 24 by 7, uh, you know, I need to uh you know I have to live a fast-paced life, uh, you know, I'm always surrounded with technology.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh these are things that are you know part and parcel of what many people do today.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say these things, uh it almost sounds like, yeah, it's good to hear, but uh, you know, that's not how the world is today.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: So is that the problem that probably a system of medicine like this is facing?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um see if your health, you know, we have various definitions for health or immunity.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: So in a common man's language, if I have to say what is my definition or opinion on the word health or immunity is to what extent can you tolerate unhealthy habits?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if your if your if your body is tolerant enough to go through that, you will go through it.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: But the term the the the time that you cross that border where your tolerance level dips, that is when you start falling sick and you realize okay, this is not sustainable.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: But a smart person is able to understand way ahead, okay, this is not sustainable, I need to change, and this is not my priority.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So today, you know, you will see more and more successful people having a lot of emotional issues.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's why there is a saying, you know, success without fulfillment is worse than failure.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to understand what is what you are striving for.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you have all the money and success, but your health is not there, what's the point?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have all the success and money and health, but if you don't have good family and friends around you because uh you're not an easy person to get along with, then again, how do you share your life and spend good memories and relationships with?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: So everything has to come in place, and that is why it's it's a balanced aspect of everything that will come around.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: So today, more and more people are realizing just focusing on one aspect in your life is not going to give you happiness and fulfillment.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, so how does then Ayurveda approach this uh philosophy?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Say, for example, let's take this uh example of I have to get my emotional well-being managed well, okay.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I have to get my uh you know, habits.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I saw your blog on habit formation itself, right?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, something that I read about.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so how do how do so how does Ayurveda approach this?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because people want instant results, right?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I want results tomorrow morning, I know I I don't want anything overnight, I don't know what's going to happen to me six months later, right?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a very uh you know, I would say very few people are able to understand it.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just want to have a swallow a pill tomorrow morning, I should be okay, right?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, how does Ayurveda approach it?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, if I am probably uh you know, sorry, uh sorry to interject, if I'm somebody who is getting exposed to this form of uh you know method of uh you know uh say medicines and you know health management, uh how should I rewire my brain?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and what should I be looking at?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, what would you how should how do how would you approach it?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, this is definitely not for everyone.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mindset plays an important role in taking an Ayurvedic treatment or a medicine.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, let's let's talk about this treatment pancha karma.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Some treatments are quite it is not so easy for the body to undergo these therapies, and you cannot give a anesthesia like a surgeon and do the surgery, and same way you give anesthesia and do The treatment on them.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: You need the consent from the patient to go through that.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why you know sick people are called patients is because they don't have patients, they didn't have patients in the first place.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So falling sick is a way there the body is telling it's too much, I need to take time off.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like saying, Oh, I don't have time to put petrol in my car, but I have to reach my destination and you're running out of petrol soon.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, if you don't stop, then you will have a uh stop over somewhere in between, and you'll have to redo the whole thing much more.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when you see people having uh stroke or accidents or heart problems, somewhere it's uh it's the body's way of enforcing, you know, is the body is giving you a crash course on relaxation, what it means to slow down.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, and why I'm saying this is not for everyone, because you need to be a little bit conscious and in tune with your body to really understand the philosophy and the the way of healing protocols mentioned in Ayurveda.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not for everyone, you need to have a mindset where you are grounded and we are willing.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to change, I want to see a little more stability in my health and my mind.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Only then it will really help you.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it will be like another uh supplements that people are taking it.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: So so therefore, uh therefore, the so it's not for everybody, is what you are saying.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm not saying it is not for everybody, but not everyone can handle it.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone can handle it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is for every human being, and uh not everyone will be in a position to handle what is mentioned because if they are in a fast base, I don't have time, if they are closed, it will not come.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: It'll it's not possible to uh you know get the benefits of that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, uh therefore, if somebody were to come to you and say, What are the five or six steps that I need to take?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh let's take the example of uh you know uh I have a specific problem, no, it could be diabetes, or it could be uh blood pressure, or it could be, and these are some of the lifestyle diseases that are very prevalent across the you know urban centers, across the country as we get more and more westernized.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, if I were to approach these, you know, this kind of a medical problem, okay.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: How is it uh you know, how would you how does Ayurveda handle this differently from the traditional form of you know allopathic or western medicine?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, how is it different?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: See, uh many areas it works, it complements each other.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say complement each other, sometimes a patient will need antibiotics, otherwise, it will be a challenge.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's say somebody got a tetanus infection.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't get the vaccine within 24 hours, they are literally facing death, so they need that interference immediately.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: In some areas, they will need uh emergency help, or some sometimes the allergy is terrible, and uh they might need an allergy suppressant, like something to minimize that.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: However, that is one area, it's like let's say you're running a company and you are not having the right cash flow, but you need to keep the company running, so maybe immediately you need to look for a cash injection.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you go for a bank and that's give you a loan for an atrocious interest rate, but because you want to continue that, but if you keep continuing that all around, then it's again another suicide.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to do that, and parallel, you need to work on improving your working capital and minimize on your unwanted expenditure and bring in more innovation so that overall you're out of that uh influence from the banks and you are self-sufficient, so that is where this is complementing each other.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: So Ayurveda is the part where it is helping on improving your working capital, and alopati is like the bank, it gives you a breather.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can you become independent?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think the analogy is so beautiful, Dr.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Vignish.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a fantastic uh example, and the other thing that uh you know what I've learned and what I what I know little is every human body is different, right?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, there are these three things that Ayurveda really you know talks about, which is really you know dosha and uh you know Datu and Mala, and you know, then they go back and explain this and they say, you know, what kind of uh pitta do you have?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so therefore, each of each of our bodies are very different.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like you know you have the problem, then I'll give you this medicine, right?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, that's a certain amount of personal understanding of your body and a treatment that is there, which is very, very uh different from the other approaches, right?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is is my assumption and understanding right?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: See, for example, there are various reasons why somebody is not able to fall asleep.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Some people could like let's say we are just treating somebody is not able to fall asleep, and we have 10 different people.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Some person they might have uh emotional issues, they might have severe anxiety, or some people they are going through immediate grievance issues, some people they're just not trained to go to sleep on time, they have a tendency to sleep very late at night, and they have trained themselves not to sleep uh early, but they go to sleep at 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock in the morning.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of them, yes, if you look at it from a different angle, it's all are having difficulty falling asleep, but all of them, not all we cannot put a universal formula for all of them.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: In some, giving some Ayurvedic medicines might help.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: In some, you might need to give them the allopathic sleeping pill.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: But if they keep continuing using that, that's also not helpful.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: For some people, just by doing good exercise is enough.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: For some people, just by reading a boring book at night, they will fall asleep, avoiding screen time that can change.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the same problem in 10 different people, depending on the cause, depending on how the body has led to that situation, you have a very specific personalized approach.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is what we are talking about here.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say 10 people they are not sleeping.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you give a sleeping pill, it's not going to help, and it's not the right approach.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: And some people just by doing good exercise.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, give me give me an example of a similar problem, how you approached it.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting that you know you're saying, hey, this is not it's not one pill for the same problem, and uh, and therefore, when you look at a treatment of uh something like this, you would approach it very differently in terms of uh you know a lifestyle change.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: How how how how do you approach a problem like this?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, there were some benefits somebody received.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they're going to get the benefits a hundred percent, but the approach and the mindset is very different, is what you said, right?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: So give me an example that helped somebody.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say somebody comes and says, I'm suffering with insomnia, and first we ask, Are you really having insomnia?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get a diagnosis before with some doctor?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or would you say you're a light sleeper, you're a disturbed sleeper, uh, or you've struggled to fall asleep, and you know, then they would say, Yes, I do struggle to fall asleep and I'm having difficulty and I wake up tired.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then you ask, Are you going through some emotional issues?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Are you an overthinker?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something that is bothering you?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: And usually they say, No, I'm actually quite happy, then the approach is different.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if they say I'm an overthinker, I am thinking about what if things can go wrong, then they need some emotional counseling that it's okay that you know how to let go of things that they cannot control.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: And in the initial days, maybe certain medications that can induce that sleep will be helpful.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you give it for the rest of the life, it is not healthy.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose of taking a medicine is to make them self-sufficient, and they don't need the medicine in the long run.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, the purpose of, like there is a saying, you know, purpose of speaking is silent, same way.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose of giving medicine is to stop speaking, stop taking medicine.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: The same approach has to be taken.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, where is the lifestyle that they need to improve?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Where is the approach towards sleep?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have uh uh like the Pavlovian dogs approach to food and bell, they associate the matters to be a place where they scroll and think and you know go up and down, and they are not able to sleep well.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, in such a situation, uh they have to re uh wire their association with bed, and then maybe at night they have to stop watching television.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, understanding what are the contributing factors to their situation and understanding what is the most important contributing factor and what can be done to change that?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is how the personalized approach works.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, so you talked about this whole uh concept of panchakarma, right?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, so what is really the route for this whole thing of panchakarma, and what does it do to somebody who does this whole panchakarma, and what are the associated benefits uh that you you have seen and you have actually experienced?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, this panchakarma is a like I told, all disease it can be classified into diseases of malnourishment and overconsumption.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, panchakarma is a disease is a therapy that is prescribed for patients suffering with overconsumption, and there are five therapies, and it's not important that everybody has to go through all the five therapies, usually it's limited to one or two, or maximum up to three therapies that is done in a period of two to three weeks.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: In ancient times, it was the you need like six months to perform all the five therapies, but today, as we say, we are in a very busy schedule and we don't have enough time, and also considering how the body's ability to deal with the treatments, so and you need to have a lot of mental strength, and the body also needs to have certain physical strength to undergo these treatments.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, let's say somebody is saying I'm having overweight and I'm feeling tired, I'm not able to focus, and I'm having a lack of motivation in my life, and my my ability to focus and clarity is missing.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: In such cases, pancha karma will be a game changer for them.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: But if they are malnourished, they don't have energy because yes, and if they are malnourished, if they don't have uh they are having uh you know difficulty putting on weight and they are not eating well, they are having digestive issues or anorexia.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: In such conditions, panchakarma is not recommended because they are suffering with malnourishment and some emotional problem.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, pancha karma is a way to eliminate unwanted substance in your body so that you are giving the space for healthy things to come back and you are improving the body's inner working mechanism and the metabolism to have a boost.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, first is you need time and you need your mind to be strong to undergo, so there'll be food restrictions.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, these are five therapies that helps the body to cleanse from the exit points.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, some people complain I'm having nose blocks or allergies, I'm not able to sleep well at night, I have snoring problems.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, in this condition, maybe they have a history of eating a lot of sugary, rich food, milk products, or consumption of alcohol or smoking, or sleeping in air condition, or deviated nasal septum.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: In such conditions, there is a therapy in Pansakarma called nassium, where you pour certain oil andor just salinated water and you do the nasal irrigation with that.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a way of cleansing and removing the excess mucus that is bound there, and it also cleanses that part.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, in other people, if they have excess mucus-related issues, like they get asthma or bronchial asthma or bronchitis, and if you look at them, they always have a lot of mucus in their upper respiratory tract.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: In these conditions, provided their heart health is good, they don't have any history of any terminal conditions where the blood pressure fluctuates.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: In such conditions, if we do this therapeutic vomiting therapy, it really helps them to reduce the excess mucus load.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: And after that, they feel suddenly they can breathe, they are feeling much better.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is one aspect of pancha karma.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: The third one is we are cleansing the di uh the gut.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: We give you a medicine and it will induce a kind of you will have loose tools, it's a way to cleanse the gut.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: Some in a lot of it's not just in Ayurveda, even in many cultures in ancient times, they would take castor oil and cleanse the gut, they would have a diarrhea, and after that, they feel clean in the gut.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have enema and then we have bloodletting.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: These are the five procedures that are done, and it's not that we do all the five procedures, depending on the situation.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: One or two procedures is enough to get the desired benefit.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: So so one question I have, Dr.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Vignas is uh you know, this is almost like a uh you know uh what I call as you need to be an expert, uh, you know, craftsman to do this, right?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, because the masseur who has to be there, the doctor who has to be there, the touch of the body that needs to be there.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: So does therefore Ayurveda have this problem of skill being the real issue of scalability?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, skill uh like employment is not a problem, employability is the issue.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another issue, and more and more demand comes, it will directly uh you know the the demand supply things will organize itself.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: So slowly, definitely the scalability has to come with more skills, such that we have better therapists, better doctors, availability of good quality medicines, and awareness among people how to do this and centers where people can go and do this.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: All of this plays an important role there.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the one challenge that I see is you know it's so easy for me to build a hospital, right?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have a CT scan, I have an MRI, I have stuff which is ready, I've got doctors and consultants, my hospital is up and running.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do that with Ayurvedic.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, even though you may actually have a holistic treatment, the challenge of doing this is a so therefore, one is an awareness problem, one is a skill problem, and the other one is really uh you know the fact that it's not so easy to set up and maintain the quality, right?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, how how do you think given your experience?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: You have done it for hundred years.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you think if we really have to dominate this uh you know this area, right?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what do you what do you think needs to be done in your experience?
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: What you have seen across geographies, I'm saying.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not just saying first is uh first is to do in India, then probably globally, but what needs to be done?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: Giving people the idea what it means to be healthy, that is the fundamental approach towards this.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Many people don't know what it means to be healthy today.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: They think as long as I'm not bedridden and I'm able to do a normal course of life, I'm healthy.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is how people think that needs to shift.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: We need to check are they finding it difficult to climb the stairs?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they tie their shoelace, are they panting?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: And are they having a good sleep, well-rested sleep?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are they having difficulty and after they eat food, are they having heaviness and are their bowel uh habits healthy?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Are they suffering with constipation or any of this?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: So normalizing that as long as I'm not bedridden and things are fine, that needs to change, and there is this potential, there is a room up for scope, there is a scope for improvement in making your best vitality up, you know, reaching that state where you feel full of energy, lightness in your body, and vitality.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think giving people that experience is a fundamental aspect in making people uh get into Ayurvedic treatments.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's where the first approach needs to be.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Once that is there, then this is a matter of time and uh putting the right infrastructure and bringing the right people together.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I'm pretty much coming to the you know end of our conversation.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have a couple of uh you know rapid fire questions to you.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the first question is uh, what does uh success mean to you?
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: Success means to me when I see my patients recovering and saying this was very transformative, and that fulfillment that I see in the change in my patient, this is what is success to me.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful what is one piece of advice uh you would have got lots of advice, but what is this one piece of advice that you got that uh you know that you continue to value even today?
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: So be impatient in doing what is necessary and be patient in getting the results, very beautifully put, very beautifully put.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like we have to think about it for some time and reflect on what you said.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: Very nice.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: What would be one piece of advice that you would give to say uh young uh you know person today?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: What is that one piece of advice that you would give from a health point of view, from a uh you know, from how they need to, you know, conduct their life?
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: What's that one piece of advice you would give them?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: Don't take your body for granted.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And pain is impermanent, but health is also impermanent.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to take responsibility, and you cannot buy health from a pharmacy or a shop or something.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have to live your way to achieve that.
• 1:03:35
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if I tell you that uh, you know, I'm going to invite you you are you got a chance to have a dream dinner, okay, with you know, with say two, three people.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who would you want to have dinner and what would you like to ask them and why?
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: One will be definitely um Deepak Chopra to understand he's a endocrinologist and he did his graduation from Ames and then his changes to understanding quantum physics and how he integrates that and made many things, so having a dinner with him will be great.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think mostly it'll be him.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fantastic.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: And uh what is one uh you know uh thing that you believe in that uh you know others disagree with you that I believe in others disagree that's a very tough personal question?
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, um I believe in Ayurveda and there are people who don't agree with that, who don't believe that it works.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: So what what what makes them uh you know why is that?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that it's just the the moment that is there in other forms of medicine.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that so?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the reason?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, they would have had some not so good experience with it and they came to a conclusion.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh or maybe they are so obsessed with uh laboratory research findings and a peer-reviewed journal.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, and and that has its benefits and limits.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks Dr.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Vignesh.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, uh, thanks for patiently answering my questions.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hope uh you know you had a good time talking to me, and thanks a lot for your time, and it was lovely talking to you.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you, Swami.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for this.