Latest / Partner & Profit Podcast / Relationship-Driven Recruiting Strategies for Real Estate Leaders with Chris Giannos

Transcript

Relationship-Driven Recruiting Strategies for Real Estate Leaders with Chris Giannos · Partner & Profit Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What most brokerages and teams get wrong is they rely on like luck.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not hurt by what you think about me.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hurt by what I think that you think about me.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I hate to break it to people, but luck has nothing to do with it.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: The best, best, best recruiters I know in our industry are nothing more than really, really good at following up.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Done is better than perfect, and the first couple of reps that you do are not gonna be very good, and that's okay.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're not thinking about you as much as they you think they are.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't gonna respond to you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't gonna engage with you.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't gonna buy your product.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is factually accurate in my experience.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like 10,000 hours of practice, you'll get good at anything.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think delayed gratification is a superpower.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's up, everybody?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Grant Wise here.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Partner Profit Podcast.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Today I've got Mr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Gianos, the founder and CEO of Humanize Chris.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Man, thank you so much for spending a little bit of time with us today.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to jump in, man.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I anything that Grant Wise calls me and is like, hey, I need you on this or I want to talk about this.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm in because every time I'm there, I learn something from him, and it's great.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to chop it up, man.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate that.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: For for people that are listening to this that may not know you know who you are and what all you do, give us a little bit of the background.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Humanize.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh past life I worked at Zillow for a couple of years and then built two real estate businesses myself.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Learned how to do two things exceptionally well recruit and onboard agents at scale.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we ended up building Humanize as an internal solution for my team and then uh kind of spinning it out.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was just looking through the numbers with our CTO this morning.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we put about 30,000 agents through our platform last year alone.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So pretty good chunk of it's usually around 250,000, 300,000 moves that happen annually, agents switching brokerages or teams.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we put about 10% of those through our platform last year.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super proud of that and think that's pretty cool.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a wild ride, man.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's been super fun.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: What what is the number one way that that you all grow your business, just out of curiosity?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would say at this point, it's probably 60-40 organic versus paid, right?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Organic channels.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I put out a lot of content, we do a lot of organic email, I go to a lot of events and speak at a lot of stuff and just kind of canoodle and talk around the world, not world literally, but you get it.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'd say it's about 60-40, 40% being paid channels, so running ads on everything you can think of, paid channels through Google Pay-PorClick or YouTube Instream or social media ads or whatever it may be.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the organic stuff by proxy, right, since we're talking about partner and profit is the name of this podcast, like that is by proxy, like partners, partner stuff, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: We get content in front of people that already know, like, and trust us, and they usually help with distribution a little bit by word of mouth, and it ends up working out really, really, really well.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I was gonna go down that that pathway and ask you, you know, how important do you feel like relationships, partnerships have been to your growth over the years?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I'm sure it wasn't always, you know, we onboarded 20 to 30,000 realtors in a year.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know if that's uh if every year's that good or not, but walk me through some of that.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would think about it like this, man.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've what I've done a really intentional job at is like maintaining a very, I want to say neutral like reputation in the industry, right?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have clients that we work with at every brokerage you can think of, variety of different teams, all of them are competing with each other.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done a really good job of kind of staying Switzerland-y, right?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the relationships that I've developed with a lot of our customers, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but very early, I started giving out like my cell phone number, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: To just everyone.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that's a good thing and a bad thing because sometimes I get a little bit behind on like actually triaging messages and stuff.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't tell you, I like it's probably around 20 or 30 a week at this point where I'll just get a three-way text message between an existing customer and someone else saying, Hey, Chris, this person needs help with Blank.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there's probably a way better channel to do that through than like a three-way text message with me.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably not very scalable.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I think staying close to like our customers and partners and other vendors and stuff we worked with has done a really, really good job at making sure that kind of organic relationship-based flywheel continues spinning.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I don't know if that answers your question, but um it it has always agency here.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: It also serves as a model, right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is a you're in a relationship-based industry, and recruiting is nothing but relationship management, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, dude, recruiting is weird.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um this I this is coming from the guy that's all I think about, right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I've spent the last like two or three days, we're getting ready to do some uh, I got like a an op-ed coming out inmin and we're doing like some press and stuff around it.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've spent the last two or three, I don't know, maybe even four or five days at this point, like deeply thinking about what good recruiting looks like at scale for teams and brokerages and stuff.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, it is relationship-based, but unfortunately, agents don't really know you exist, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like not you can have the biggest brand in a marketplace, but unless you are consistently getting your brand in front of people over and over and over and over again, they don't remember you exist.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about this so much that I like literally have it drawn on a post-it note now on my desk, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is people, and this is true just in marketing in general, you can talk about it with recruiting anything.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are extrinsic drivers of people taking action with products, quote unquote, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't control those extrinsic drivers.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: For recruiting, the example I'll give you is uh an agent, the brokerage changes their compensation splits or something, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or puts an introduces a fee, and now an agent is upset.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're not really digging it, they're upset, they're moody about it, they don't feel good.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's an extrinsic driver that is going to make them more likely to go, oh, I'm interested in having a conversation about joining a new team or brokerage, right?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: What most brokerages and teams get wrong is they rely on like luck, meaning we know that people perpetually experience these extrinsic drivers in behavior change.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: But what needs to stay constant, so this lineup here, it starts to intersect those behavior change patterns, right?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Your messaging needs to stay in front of people consistently.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: As much as we would like to think that everyone knows who we are and what we do.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've even noticed it myself, we've been super busy in the last couple of weeks, and I've like stopped putting out as much content.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: What else do you think's down, Grant?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Leads, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like transactions, everything, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a direct byproduct.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But with recruiting specifically in relationships, like people need to know who you are and what you do, and not just if you're advertising to like buyers and sellers in your marketplace, that's way different advertising, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Than like, hey, here's what I do, here's my value proposition to agents, and here's how you start a conversation with me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you start to get like lucky and it starts to intersect these changes.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I hate to break it to people, but luck has nothing to do with it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: The best, best, best recruiters I know in our industry are nothing more than really, really good at following up.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know people that like want to crack the code and have these secret shiny objects that they go and chase that's gonna make it easier.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you pulled a list of 500 agents in your marketplace and committed to calling every single one of them once a month for the next year, do you think you'd recruit a big chunk of them?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's that it's that simple, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy, and that's really hard for most people to do, but it is truly that simple.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you stay in front of people and these relationships start to like sow crops, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think so many people forget how forget about the microwave effect.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's kind of going in line with the point that you're making, is really, you know, when I got an idea or I've got a motivation or an inspiration or somebody raises commissions or whatever, it's like I going back to your graphic, like I'm hot.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm I'm really, really hot.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to figure out what it is that I can do to make a change.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you take me out of the microwave, something else grabs my attention.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like I don't even remember what I was hot about, and I and I move on to the next thing, and then you know, you know, life goes on.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's like I love what you're saying.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's really simple.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's dude, it's a story as old as time, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: You look at those extrinsic drivers happening and people experiencing change in their business or personal life and how motivated they are going to be make a move or not make a move, it's just a consistency thing.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what I explain to people a lot of the time is, and this is true with I think any marketing, people need to be aware of you and they need to know how to actually start a conversation with you.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: If those two things are a constant, with recruiting specifically, it's a combination of inbound and outbound, push and pull, right?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got someone, team leader, broker owner, it doesn't matter, that's committed to making a couple of phone calls a day, sending out a value-based email a couple of days a week with no call to action, maybe every eight to ten emails, there's some sort of call to action about joining their team or brokerage, and you've got some basic organic social stuff going that's value-based content, like it's dude, it's a flywheel that I don't think people understand how simple it actually is, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: The execution part used to be really hard because what are you gonna say when you call?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna send in your email?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: What types of social content are you gonna post?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, we have an oracle in our pocket now, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Called an iPhone.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you pop open any of these AI models, they'll tell you what to do, right?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like I'm not saying copy and paste everything and just take no time personalizing.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm saying at all.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: But that execution is what used to separate like good marketers from great marketers, and now everyone can fit into that category.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: You just you gotta do it, and done is better than perfect with it.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think holds people back from doing a lot of that?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Fear.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, dude, I talk to still like I have myself in our like inbound demo queue.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I take probably one out of every hundred demos at this point, just because I like to hear what's going on and experience like what our customers are thinking about during like that that initial discovery phase.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Half the time, man, it's it's fear of like looking silly, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: When I talk to team leaders that were trying to like, hey, you should start posting organically on Facebook, for example.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, what do I post?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, go on my Facebook and watch what I what I post, right?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Every other picture, and I know you do this too.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, if I don't have a picture to post, but I want someone to read the caption, I'll take a picture like this with my phone at my desk, like throwing up duck clips, like just do do something, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because these people so often forget that done is better than perfect, and the first couple of reps that you do are not gonna be very good, and that's okay, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I think it's fear of looking silly.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what people forget, and I know you know this because you've told me this before.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: People don't think about you as much as you would like to think that when we do things, they're like thinking, oh my gosh, dude, Grant looks like a door.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like they are so concerned about themselves, they're not even like they'll think about you maybe at the first glance, an interaction of like an ad or something you do, and then they get five texts from their wife or their husband or whatever, and little Timmy just ate a hot wheel and now they gotta go to urgent care, and like they're not thinking about you as much as that you think they are, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wish more people could like internalize that and like get it, because I think so many people spend so much time thinking about what other people think.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's this old proverb, man, it's I'm not hurt by what you think about me.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hurt by what I think that you think about me.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's true.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I wish more people could like really internalize that and understand it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, dude.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think about a lot.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, I have like the Google Photos app on my phone, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it sends me like those push reminders like every other day.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this was you 10 years ago, and I got one a couple of weeks ago, and I actually posted a piece of content about it where it was like it was this video of me in front of a like we had this corner in our office that had this like crummy PVC printed like remax backdrop.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was like blurry, the logo was like it was it was nuts.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I would go in that corner every day.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: If I connected with someone, because I was brand new into the industry at that point, I'd like just got my license like 10 years ago, and I was basically just like calling out of a pond and like didn't have any customers I was working with, except this big giant database of leads that my team leader would give me access to.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was calling these people.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: If I connected with someone and had a good call at the end of the day, every day, I'd only have what five or ten good conversations a day if you made a couple hundred dials.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would go into the corner and I would shoot Bomb Bomb videos.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is when Bomb Bomb was like it, man.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I would get into the corner and I would, even if it was just a conversation, hey Grant, it was so awesome to connect with you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to pop on real quick, put a face to the name.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to sending you over some properties and I'll be in touch tomorrow.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Peace out, Girl Scout, later, whatever.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh dude, I have hundreds of those in my like drive of like old content.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And seeing those videos now versus it's true, like 10,000 hours of practice, you'll get good at anything.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I still think I have a ton of work to do, and I like there's always progress to be made, but seeing some of the content that we put out now versus what I was doing, it's true what you say, right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no one's paying attention to you, no one is gonna remember this stuff long term, but the only way to get better at it is getting over that because like content and relationships and all this stuff, it is purely a repetition game.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not good at it now, the only way to get better is by doing it over and over and over and over again.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you gotta get over yourself to actually make that happen.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that that's the secret really to like long-term relationship management?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is just like consistently being in front of the same person over and over.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: But walk me through this.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, give me like two or three like really practical things to do when I'm thinking about relationship and when I'm thinking about partnership.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think everything that we're talking about is uh universally applicable.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that it like it doesn't just have to be applicable from you know recruiting standpoint, but just kind of like in a broad sense, do you feel like imperfect action consistently over a long sustained period of time is the best way to manage a relationship so you can ultimately recruit, or is there is there something else?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll give you like an actual example.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: When I think about like the science to building relationships, I think two things are important.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: One, when you bring someone into the fold, and this is something that I recently started doing, and it's actually worked out pretty well.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: You and I both go to a lot of events, I meet a lot of new people, have lots of conversations on a pretty regular basis.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: We collect a lot of contact information.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Something that I used to do was I would get someone's phone number, I'd be standing in front of them at an event, or you could apply this to an open house or a showing or whatever it is, and like you send them a message with your like contact information, and then that's pretty much it, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's where it dies, unless there's some form of communication that happens.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Something that I've started doing recently, and I Ryan Sterhant talked about this in one of his books that I read, and like I just started doing it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: If I get someone's phone number, the second I'm not with them anymore, even if it's 30 seconds later, a minute later, and I just did this at a conference, I fire off a text message with a question of some sort, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever it is, just something in general to establish two-way communication.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you what that has done for like just getting two-way communication established.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like the grass is green where you water it, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to build a relationship with someone from a business standpoint that has like commercial outcomes, one, you should never treat it as purely that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: The second you look at it through the lens of I'm just doing this to try and get it like dog get a bone, that's not a thing.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: The pathway to getting some sort of benefit from this outside of just an interpersonal relationship is to make this person like a friend first and be curious.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think anyone that wants to get good at building relationships needs to remember that, like any skill set that you want to develop and improve at, there is no shortcut, right?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's a really famous example, and I might butcher the exactness of it, but I think it's worth saying there's like a college professor that taught photography, right?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he had two groups of kids.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard this example before?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: He split the class into halves at the beginning of the semester.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one group, he said, you guys can only take 10 photos all semester, and they need to be like perfect.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys like the goal is to deliver the utmost quality of the photos that we ask you to do.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the other group, you can take as many photos as you want, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the goal is you're gonna deliver 10 at the end of the semester and you're gonna be graded on it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: You want to take a wild guess which group actually ended up performing better, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: The repetitions, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes down to it, building relationships, just like anything, I think people need to focus on quantity of contact and quantity of outreach and quantity of like reps with that before they focus on quality.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, don't get me wrong, as you improve at that, I think you naturally, if you're a studious person that like pays attention to results, which all of us should be, we're listening to a podcast trying to get better at stuff, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I know everything.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: But after a certain amount of repetition, you start to notice patterns and trends of what's working and what's not, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm trying to get the attention, and a certain example comes to mind, like we on the humanize side, our first pre-seed and seed investor was Tom Ferry, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Tom gave me his phone number at a conference in like 2019, right?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: When it came time to do humanize, do you know how many text messages I sent Tom before he responded?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like burned into like legend at Humanize now.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I sent 51 text messages over the course of like three months.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: There was video, there was testimonials, there was just text, there was current, like everything.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally he called me, right?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we had a great conversation.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like, hey, Tom, hey, Tom, hey, Tom, hey Tom, here's a testimonial from Steve Ravethas, here's this, here's that, like just creative ways to go, I'm alive, I'm functioning as a person, here's what we're doing.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think you would be interested in it.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually it resulted in a conversation, right?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: But like even then, even after all these years of developing relationships and I think being pretty good at it, it still took 51 attempts, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: To get something going and a conversation started.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you think about it, a lot of people probably, you know, it's like, oh, Tom's busy, don't want to bother him, give up at five text messages, or three, or two, or one, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, dude, even to this day, within the last two or three days, I've had people reach out to me and say that, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, I'm trying to get a hold of Tom for blank.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I sent him a couple text messages.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can you poke him?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and in my head, I'm thinking, yeah, you just got to send 48 more.
• 18:57
  unknown: Right.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that like, and it's not, look, Tom is like the goat, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Tom has been an incredible mentor for me.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: The dude's like me, though, and you, like, he gives his cell phone number out, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And like, it's not he doesn't want to reply to you, it's that he's got 10,000 things going on and it probably gets three or four hundred inbound text messages a day, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, even in those examples, repetition is super important and realizing that someone might someone might see your content not like even if we're talking about separate from text messages.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you another example.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing these like medium format Facebook posts, right?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's value-based content, no call to action, just kind of doing my thing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many direct messages I get from people that won't even engage with the content, but will send me a DM saying, like, oh man, that thing spoke to my soul.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Well, you could have commented that, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, thanks for a like, bro.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just that idea that, like, dude, it's reps.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you gotta do it over and over and over again.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a little bit more than reps because when I when I think about like what you just said, thinking about the Tom example, but then also thinking about just putting out content and getting nothing, but continue deciding to keep doing it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, walk us through the personal like development angle there because like you texting Tom Ferry 50, whatever times says a lot less about Tom, and it says a lot more about just your your desire, your willpower, your grit, your relentlessness, your tenacity.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's probably everybody listening to this right now could be coached up on, well, like I don't want to bother people, I don't want to do this, or I don't want to see them this, or I don't want to see him that.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, nah, nah, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna do it 51 times.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, by the way, I want to put out 51 pieces of content, and and and oh, by the way, I'm gonna do XYZ.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of help us develop personally there for a second.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's probably some gold in uh what a person needs to get through themselves, like over themselves to be able to do something like that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think delayed gratification is a superpower, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to put and anyone is capable of it, it's not something that's intrinsic because the way we're wired now is instant gratification, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I go on Postmates and put my order in for lunch and I want it at my door in 20 minutes or less, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like the way society is constructed now, it's instant gratification over this idea that if you work hard at something for long periods of time, good things will happen, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And some of it's convenience-based.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, dude, I don't I don't want my lunch to show up four hours later.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I like the idea of paying for convenience, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But with what you're talking about, when it comes down to it, the ability to focus over long periods of time on something that you want, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And not just fall for the trap of I don't know, it's burning in my head at this point that like if you want something that's big, whatever the outcome is, it could be chasing being the world's greatest father, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Being the world's greatest husband, being a business idea, whatever it is, it doesn't matter.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a commercial outcome or a personal outcome, there's this idea that like it's going to be easy.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you fundamentally want to do something big, you are dramatically underestimating how hard it is going to be.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And with the content, with the outreach, people not replying to you.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you thought about like 10 years from now, 20 years from now, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: 20 years from now, I'll be 52 years old.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like looking in the rearview mirror.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want to be sitting there after probably my kids are gone and doing their thing and whatever?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like and going, Oh, I just didn't try hard enough.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or like I tried for a little bit and it got hard, so I gave up.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: The content thing for most people, it is no matter what anyone says, that is like a rep.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, there's some once you get into a certain level of content, there's like certain ways you want to produce it and create it and do things to like really drive results and stuff.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I really think it's a repetition thing.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And even if people aren't engaging with your stuff directly, they're still seeing it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have that happen so frequently.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I saw another creator this morning, who was it?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: He was famous, put out something about the more time they put into their content, the seemingly less it does, like from a reach perspective.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've experienced that.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll spend an hour over the weekend like really polishing something and trying really hard to make it perfect, thinking like, oh, this thing's gonna nail it and it bombs.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then something that I'm like half asleep at the end of the day putting together on Canva that takes 35 seconds goes nuts, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I see it all the time.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I worked for I don't know, I actually went through and deleted a bunch of videos off my phone um a little while back, and it was almost 3,000 videos that I had made and posted on social media over the course of like a decade.
• 23:49
  unknown: Wow.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And none of them went viral.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: The only time I ever went viral was when I tipped a waitress$4,400 and she got fired.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like famous in Hong Kong.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like you never you never really actually go viral, it seems like, for the things that you want to.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's that's kind of like an off-the-cuff, obscure example.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to your point, it's like at the end of the day, what everybody says is true.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't gonna respond to you.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't gonna engage with you, most people aren't gonna buy your product.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is factually accurate in my experience.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the 5% of people that do could change everything.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everything.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a idea that like is kind of cliche to say out loud, but it's so true, especially from a marketing perspective.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, how bad do you want it?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Which is like that sounds so cliche and so simple, but like when you look at really, really, really incredibly high performance people that have achieved incredible outcomes in any any endeavor of human like function, not just in business outcomes, usually there's a common pattern that they've failed more than they've won.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: With everything.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: You look at great basketball players and stuff, like they'll say it over and over and over again like I've I've missed 10 times more shots than I've ever made.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lesson in that.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you get to make a choice as a person.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not perfect at this and I don't claim to be, but you get to make a decision that, like, if I put effort into something and it doesn't get me the outcome I want, one of two things is gonna happen, right?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can either shut down and say, hey, this sucks.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Woe is me, like the world is falling, or you can go, all right, well, that didn't work.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are we gonna try next?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the world, unfortunately and fortunately, because it is that simple, belongs to those people that go, well, that didn't work.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: What are we gonna do next?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: That it it truly belongs to those people.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I've experienced that so much just throughout the course of I think I've been doing this entrepreneur thing almost since I was 19.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm about to be 30, about to be 36.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing it in a minute.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: But more specifically, just like, you know, over the last decade of doing all this stuff in real estate and now everything that we do in real estate and home services with co-marketing, it's just like it's just the truth.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like most of the stuff you do is not gonna work.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like it's like designed that way, because it's like it's like the people that like just understand that and keep moving forward, especially if we could take this back to partnerships and relationship development.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like most people I know would never message Tom Barry 50 plus times with no response.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: But because you did, and you didn't just like, hey Tom, hey Tom, hey, Tom, hey, Tom, hey Tom, it's like value, it's this.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think that's a really good lesson too.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when you when the thing that you're doing isn't really working, change.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Try something different, try a different ask, try give a different thing, and try to give to these relationships more than you take from them.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you're gonna be surprised.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh here's just how how much everything can change for you.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and here's you talked about the personal part of it a little bit.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the like blunt, non-sugar coated truth.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Probably, I don't know, every second or third text message that I sent in that run-up, I was like, this is a waste of time.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way he's gonna reply to me.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I look like an idiot, I look like a clingy girlfriend, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is this is crazy.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I look insane.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it happened numerous times where I was like, okay, and all I kept saying to myself was, well, if he didn't really didn't want to communicate with me, he probably would have told me to stop by now or like block my phone number, or like it nothing bad is happening, but nothing good is happening at the same token.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's just important to remember.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not saying pester people incessantly, but I think there's an underrated skill set in relationship building and in marketing and just business in general, or even life in general.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think people have gotten out of touch with like their gut, right?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like their gut feeling about things and like not wanting to believe in that, the hooby-doobie, whatever it is that you think about.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've experienced this being an entreprene being an entrepreneur for as long as you have.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's been numerous examples where like you thought you should trust your gut, you didn't, and then like a bad thing happened, right?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or you wanted to trust your gut, and trusting your gut felt uncomfortable and not good, but you did it anyways, and then like something good happened.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I've kind of shifted the way that I've looked at business over the years because I feel that a lot of the vision that I've got is divine, and it's not that like I'm some good, great thing, or you know, whatever.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that's what I believe.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I believe I believe in my creator, and I believe that he's given me vision.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So then my view of business is not I'm doing this because I'm so great, is I'm doing this as an act of obedience.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I work with a develop like a executive coach, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Development coach, that like her job is to keep me in the game, right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Mentally and spiritually and all these different things.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the justification that I've given myself sometimes when I don't feel like myself, right?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I we all get glimpses, and this is gonna get a little metaphysical for a second, but that's okay.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all get these moments where we see the people that we're supposed to be, right?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And personal, professional, it doesn't matter what setting.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: We see those people, everyone.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're not, I think most people struggle to be that person always, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we're always gonna have bad days and off days.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the key is once you figure out who that person is, usually there's a lot of net good that comes out of being that person.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to just be in a I have like vision and I am this visionary person.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you can just impact people in a positive light and like good things will happen to you.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it's tough, man.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people shy away from that idea of like, once you figure out who that person is, like who are you?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's selfish almost.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is just personal opinion.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's selfish to keep that person in a like in a cage and not let that shine like you've been given by whatever you believe, you've been given innate ability or vision or whatever your your thing is.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: What is shame to waste it?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you truly believe in doing the right thing and helping other people and contributing to society, it's selfish.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying sacrifice your own mental or physical health for the benefit of everyone else, but I can tell you this everyone goes through waves.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Me, Grant, anyone listening, we go through these ups and downs of how we feel and if we're on top or hot or not or whatever it is.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you with like absolute certainty that the periods of my life when I felt the most in the zone and capable and good about myself, it's been when I've been contributing at the highest level to people around me.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: It had nothing to do with what I was achieving.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's the more people you help, the better you're going to feel, and that's a fact.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a double-edged sword with that, don't get me wrong.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people that think like that, me included, get a little people pleasy, right?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Where I start to like not have boundaries and then just want to help everything and everyone, and like it's like a dopamine hit.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you're right, like it's divine, and like who are we to hide that?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I I'm apt to agree with you though.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I've never met anybody that spent most of their life giving to the benefit of others and contributing and serving, and didn't end up happier, more joy-filled, more purpose-filled, and accomplishing a lot more in life.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's such a good framework for this idea of growing a business through relationships and through partnerships, is it's really simple.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you can just spend more time thinking about how you can give and contribute to the service of others, you will win.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your net like your net gain on a daily basis is going to be positive.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't always mean it's gonna feel like it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've spent years on the phones for things that didn't really pay off until a long, a long time later.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they never pay off.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they don't.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it like no no nobody gets the secret.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you know this podcast has turned more towards a faith people, but like that's where the faith comes in.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like having faith and a vision that you know you've got or that you've been given uh can take you, I think, a lot farther.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, leaning on that will take you a lot farther than than you can get on your own.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know that um yeah, we've uh or do you have something else you wanted to say?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just one last little thing that I think is on that same token.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a quote that I try and kind of like stick to, and it's give first and without expectation, right?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: You do that, that becomes like a mantra.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're gonna have business coming, business and good things coming out of your ears, right?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you you have to do it that way.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It can't be a give and only do it because I want something in return.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you start giving without expecting anything in return, guess what happens?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: People throw things at you, right?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: In a good way.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's how you build trust.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's and it's today more important than ever.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, as we're we've kind of entered this trust recession that people call it, like the more you talk to people, the more you work to just help people with no agenda, the more opportunities you're gonna get.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've never met somebody that that has said, okay, for the next 90 to 120 days, I'm just gonna try to help some one new person every single day in a way that didn't come out of that that three to four month experience, much wealthier, much better, uh, much richer than they did when they went into it.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to respect your time and I know we're we're running out of.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to ask this question how can we, myself included, the people listening to this podcast, how can we partner with you and help you grow your business?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's two things I would be thinking about.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: One, if you're in the real estate space specifically and growth is important to you, we would love to become a partner of yours, right?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like that doesn't just look like, hey, sign up for my platform, let's have a party.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is all I do, right?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: We all I talk about is growth on the real estate side.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's my primary function as of right now as a human.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So even if that's just having a conversation, right?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: We collabs on some content together.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's all sorts of stuff we can do.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: With you specifically, Grant, I think doing more of this stuff is awesome, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Having conversations, it's it's fascinating to me that this conversation shifted.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about like partnerships and relationships and stuff, and it very quickly shifted to like the more ethereal part of that, that isn't just like, hey, I gotta send 50 text messages.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, no, no, no.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, send 50 text messages because a little birdie is telling you to, like, God, the universe, whatever you want to call it, is like, hey, man, keep keep going.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know you don't feel good about this, but it's gonna unlock some stuff for you, right?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think just having more of these conversations is huge.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate you, man.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you spending some time with me.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this conversation was awesome, and I know that everybody listening to it is going to be better because of it, especially if they take it and they go uh act on it, go take some advice and actually put it into practice.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you a ton, man.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, always love our conversations and uh definitely excited I got to have this one today.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, Grant.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you soon, brother.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right, awesome.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys for continuing to listen to the Partner in Profit Podcast.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: We will see you on the next episode.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Peace.