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On Radical Acceptance · Life In Flow Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
• 0:03
  The three of us,
• 0:05
  Yulia,
• 0:05
  Polina,
• 0:06
  and Irina,
• 0:07
  are exploring what Life in Flow and Flow in Life is.
• 0:12
  Join us as we experiment,
• 0:15
  test our diverse hypotheses,
• 0:17
  and have fun in the process.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Will we find an answer?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
• 0:30
  We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
• 0:35
  conversation itself
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: becomes a group flow experience.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Go beyond the intellectual information.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Listen with your whole body.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
• 1:05
  Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
• 1:11
  body,
• 1:12
  and energy flow together.
• 1:16
  welcome to this next episode of life and flow podcast i'm
• 1:21
  polina i'm facilitating
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: today and i'm here with my two co-hosts julia and irina
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: And today,
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: hello ladies,
• 1:35
  today we are going to be diving into what is it like to listen
• 1:41
  without filters,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: including radical acceptance,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: welcoming,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: and how does it affect the flow between us?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that I've been wondering about.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Do we actually have to listen well to find group flow?
• 2:03
  Or can flow arise even when we're judging,
• 2:06
  comparing,
• 2:07
  or planning our reply?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: We've all felt both, right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Those spontaneous, overlapping conversations that somehow flow.
• 2:19
  And those moments when listening is soft and deep and the whole
• 2:27
  field between us changes.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: So today we're exploring what happens when we listen through filters and
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: expectations,
• 2:39
  especially the perfect version lens versus when we listen with
• 2:47
  radical acceptance
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: and welcoming.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll keep this experiential as we usually do.
• 2:55
  So if you're listening in at home,
• 2:58
  you'll get to try these practices with us.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Please join in.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: so we're going to start with a quick,
• 3:06
  creative little warm-up game to loosen us up and loosen up the
• 3:11
  flow in real time.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: We are going to co-create a story one word at a time.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Very simple.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to go in a circle.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: On my screen, it's me, then Irina, then Yula.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Let's maybe do it that way.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to say the first word and then you say the next.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next person says the next.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's no planning.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is totally, it could be free and creative and crazy and wacky.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Total freedom.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Just let's see what we come up with.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: What wacky story we'll come up with one word at a time.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So like we are saying the words to continue the sentence?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, quickly.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 3:57
  So we're just going to try to try to create some kind of story
• 4:00
  with one word at a time.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: We'll go a few circles, a few few rounds.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: OK.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: OK, so I will start.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Cows.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Did you say low?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Blow.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: In.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Water.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Until.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: They.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Poop.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: In.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Air.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Shooting.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Rainbows.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: All over.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: The meadow.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: The meadow?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Rain.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Streams.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Weaths.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Stars Shooting Joy Love Empathy Upon The Earth
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 5:52
  Now we're going to do one more round,
• 5:53
  but this one is going to be a little bit different.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: This time, I'd like us to try to actually ground the story in reality.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Keep it coherent, realistic, something that could actually happen.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Happen where?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: In which reality?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: In this reality, on earth, in this day and age.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure that we're sharing the same reality?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let's try.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's try to share this normal reality.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's try to be down to earth.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: The banker.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Checked.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: The account.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Discovering discrepancies of a million.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Deciding to hide it in the pocket.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: He carefully planned.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: An escape.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Stuffing.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: The cash.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Into.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: His pocket.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: But.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: The rain.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Doused.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Into the pocket.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Distributing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: The cash.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Prove them not.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: Those were not very good pants he was wearing.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Not very expensive for a banker.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: The cash just slowed down.
• 8:20
  No,
• 8:20
  I mean,
• 8:21
  they were good enough because he was able to...
• 8:23
  Stop a million dollars of cash.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: A million dollar of bills into these pants.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that was the problem.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we didn't do a great job in terms of making this believable because,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: in a finance firm,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: a banker,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: there wouldn't be cash that he has access to a million of it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: But that's OK.
• 8:46
  The point of this exercise was I wanted to ask you what changed
• 8:50
  in your body or
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: your attention when we tried to keep it more realistic?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Just consider it for a sec.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Did you notice more effort?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: more planning, a little bit of tightening or tension in the body.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Listeners, check in with yourselves as well.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: When you were listening to the first few rounds, did you feel more open?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then when the realistic round came on,
• 9:20
  did you feel any changes in terms of tension or pressure or
• 9:24
  anything in terms of
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: what you were experiencing in the field?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Yula?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when you said that now we're going to come up with a realistic story,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: my first reaction,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: was to contract inside of me.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: It would have to be realistic, but why?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then I was like, okay, I'm playing along.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then by playing along, I think I just started to feel good.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was very tempting.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: to support the good feeling by leading it in a more pleasant direction.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: A whole arc of flow.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Ira, how about you?
• 10:16
  I think I shared the Yula story in the sense that indeed there
• 10:23
  was some kind of
• 10:27
  resistance in the body when you announced the condition but
• 10:32
  then during the game i
• 10:35
  can't say that i felt myself more restricted than in the first
• 10:42
  round although i do
• 10:45
  like i do agree that usually it happens usually when you put on
• 10:49
  the condition that
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: it has to fulfill
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: certain requirements of the reality, it does put more pressure on you.
• 11:02
  yeah yeah and funny enough i actually knew what the exercise
• 11:05
  was going to be and as
• 11:07
  i was giving it to you i myself felt a bit of tension and a bit
• 11:11
  of compression just
• 11:12
  kind of i guess the system was gauging how you two might
• 11:16
  respond and and went into
• 11:18
  a little bit of a compression that i had to then expand around
• 11:21
  to to also come back
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: into flow so even if
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: someone knows what's coming, it could still happen, right?
• 11:30
  What's really cool is catching those moments to see like,
• 11:32
  what is this causing for me?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: And what do I need to do to come back to a flow,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: whether the flow is here or here or there,
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter where the flow is, but like how to get back into it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else anyone wants to share?
• 11:56
  came to me just now is that it also like what i felt that
• 12:03
  helped me to flow rather
• 12:07
  easily with the story the second time without like what to come
• 12:12
  up with what to
• 12:13
  come up with is that the prompts that i was receiving from both
• 12:18
  of you were really
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: like
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: supporting the story.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it was easy to come up with an answer that was rather realistic.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you didn't like the cash part,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: but I do find that it's always a part of the banking,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: not robbery,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: but the not honest bankers and all the staff who are escaping.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's all this cash in the...
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: If it's an actual bank, that's true.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: I guess in my head,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking like the financial companies that we used to work for,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: not an actual bank,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: like they wouldn't really have cash.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Not the ones I worked.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess somewhere they would have had cash.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: But
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it easier if we kind of know what the setting is, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: The reality.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: It actually in some way makes it easier to come up with words.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas when it's a little bit more out of the box,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: even though there's freedom there,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: there could also be...
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Did you notice?
• 13:26
  There could also be a little bit of pressure to make it funner,
• 13:29
  cooler,
• 13:30
  more out there.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is actually one of the...
• 13:39
  hurdles of the creative thinking is that people are putting too
• 13:46
  much pressure on
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: themselves that you're like,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: if I come up with idea,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I need to come up with really very extraordinary original idea.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:56
  and that is like when i discovered the concept of suspending
• 14:00
  judgment it really
• 14:02
  took enormous weight off my shoulders because like i realized
• 14:07
  how really like i
• 14:08
  don't have to come up with a regional idea idea would be good
• 14:15
  yeah time you know
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: actually the rule is you cannot come up with jokes
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: The goal cannot be to come up with jokes.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is the rule of... While improving.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: They happen, but it's not the goal to come up.
• 14:37
  The goal is to listen and to hear and to be in the moment with
• 14:45
  the partner.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as the pressure is there to...
• 14:53
  come up with a joke and of course for many people including
• 14:56
  myself the pressure
• 14:59
  keeps coming and keeps coming and you brush it off it keeps
• 15:03
  keeps coming um so but
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: then it's like you know the flow gets gets broken um
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: So really what you're,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think what all of us are pointing to is that the way we listen,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: whether there's judgment or not,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 15:23
  And how we relate to the tension that gets created in the body
• 15:28
  based on how we are
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: attempting to listen,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 15:32
  All of those things mix into our ability to flow together and
• 15:37
  our ability to be in
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: flow even with ourselves and with another person,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what I'm hearing?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: at least in what I was talking about,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was not referring myself so much to the part of the listening,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: how I was listening to you,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: but really the permission for the answer.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: How I was...
• 16:12
  relating to myself in the process right right yeah well i guess
• 16:19
  we could also just
• 16:24
  ask ourselves what the definition of listening is because
• 16:27
  sometimes the definition
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: of listening is listening or you know um being aware of auditory signals
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But listening can also mean being really present,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: active listening,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: where you are just in the process and in co-creation in the moment.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, receiving.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're actually jumping ahead.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's already naturally happening.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 17:00
  And it seems that one of the most important factors in the way
• 17:06
  we connect to
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: ourselves and others is not something we really talk about.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: For example,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: it would be really helpful sometimes to ask another person,
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: how would you like me to listen to you?
• 17:23
  Do you want me to listen to you just to hold space because you
• 17:26
  need to get some
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: stuff out and you don't want any advice?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want any responses.
• 17:32
  You just need another human to hold space and witness what
• 17:35
  you're going through,
• 17:37
  right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you want me to listen and help you identify where you're stuck?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Be another way of listening.
• 17:45
  Do you want me to listen in a way where we could strategize and
• 17:48
  come up with solutions?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like how do you want me to listen to you?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: What's coming up as I paint this picture?
• 17:58
  I think that would be if we integrated this kind of skills in
• 18:05
  our day-to-day
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: interactions,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would definitely be like an advanced level of relating.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: My question is,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: in the majority of the cases,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: most of the time,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: does the person who receives this question,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: how do you want me to listen to you,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: does this person really know?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do they want to be listened to?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 18:49
  So that we're seeing maybe something that hasn't been clarified
• 18:54
  on both ends,
• 18:55
  both the listener.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:57
  They could ask that question or shift into different modes of
• 19:01
  listening and how.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: And also a person that wants to be heard,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: like that identification of what is my need or what is my want.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: And also to have to give yourself permission to ask another human,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: can you please listen?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And just hold space for me.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want any advice.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to even remember what I'm saying.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: I just need you to hold space.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Alison Armstrong says it's holding the basket.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Someone's holding the basket and someone's just getting stuff out.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no need to even remember what the person is saying.
• 19:36
  But it really changes the quality of both how the listener is
• 19:42
  showing up,
• 19:43
  right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: How they're listening.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And also it changes the quality of the speaker.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: and how they can get stuff out.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.
• 19:51
  I think even before you're giving oneself this permission to
• 19:56
  ask for what I need,
• 19:59
  the most important is that this question itself is an
• 20:03
  invitation to the person to
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: become aware of what do I actually want from the other person.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do you need?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now I need to become aware of myself.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the greatest shift.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yulia, where are you now?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: What's coming up for you?
• 20:32
  I wonder if this is something becoming apparent just from this
• 20:38
  little brief chat we're having?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just...
• 20:46
  wondering how many things need to be in place for this kind of
• 20:50
  interaction because
• 20:53
  of course i could even i could imagine myself doing this
• 21:00
  radical ask can you just
• 21:04
  be there for me hold space and i will be just like up
• 21:10
  offloading and offloading and
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: offloading and
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: You just be there.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: But then it opens the door to many questions for me as well.
• 21:27
  And maybe it's because I've been there many times and I know
• 21:32
  that when I really
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: just offload my stuff,
• 21:40
  There are not many people that I've met so far who would be
• 21:45
  able just to hold it,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: but not just to hold the basket,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: but really to create that space.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can feel safe in myself also that I am not loading them with my stuff.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had been loaded myself too often, so I know how it works.
• 22:10
  So I think it's such a complex and exquisite interaction that
• 22:17
  requires skill and
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: constant presence to each other on both sides.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: So like you're almost to me,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: it sounds like you're describing a certain respect for one another,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: that this is what we're doing.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: But as you're offloading,
• 22:35
  the intention is not to offload on the other person because
• 22:38
  that would actually
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: create energetically a lot of stuff,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Would probably trigger a lot of stuff for the other person as well.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: But you're saying...
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: with respect and permission,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: because we have made this agreement about how we're going to show up,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: in me sharing and you listening,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: there's also certain boundaries,
• 22:58
  there's certain things we're going to respect in the way we do
• 23:01
  it that would allow
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: for this exchange to be as exquisite as how you're describing.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: Am I getting that right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're getting this right.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And now something comes to mind.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: An exception to
• 23:16
  in my opinion or in my experience like how careful you need to
• 23:22
  be offloading the
• 23:24
  exception if it's if it's a group that's able to hold the space
• 23:28
  because it's been
• 23:29
  to one such experience of offloading where there were like 15
• 23:35
  people over 15 people
• 23:37
  and we're all directed non-verbally to hold that space but
• 23:43
  there was also someone
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: who was
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: also holding our space, I guess.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that person was able to offload in a way that like,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: just like went into space and wailing and physically doing stuff.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: So.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: I still and still if we tune in to the difference of
• 24:23
  if you are offloading with the intent of just getting it out
• 24:30
  and someone is just
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: presencing,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: just holding space for you,
• 24:35
  that kind of changes the internal prompting system if you tune
• 24:39
  in versus if you're
• 24:41
  offloading but you haven't made the agreement that the other
• 24:44
  person doesn't even
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: need to remember what you're saying.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: So if the other person thinks...
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, maybe I'll need to remember.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'll need to respond.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure what does this person need?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: What does this person need?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like the question that's running in the back of their head, right?
• 24:58
  As they're listening could very easily change the entire energy
• 25:02
  of the interaction,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: both for the speaker that's trying to offload,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: but also the listener.
• 25:11
  I think what you're touching upon is that this kind of relating
• 25:17
  and interaction
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: definitely requires from all of us developing a new set of skills.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it requires practice.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not only about being able to hold space and to know how to vent.
• 25:37
  out the like the things that you need to upload offload and how
• 25:42
  to hold it so it
• 25:43
  would not create the conflict but it also requires again this
• 25:53
  it's not just respect
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: to each other but really knowing how to do it knowing how to like
• 26:01
  create this agreement how to ask this question how to ask for
• 26:07
  permission okay can i
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: do this and you can you just listen to me or i need this from you and
• 26:20
  not taking for granted the other person and really treating
• 26:25
  with respect the energy
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: of the other person,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: the boundaries of the other person and mine own.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's
• 26:36
  You will ask the question how many things need to be present
• 26:41
  for this to happen.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And indeed, a lot of factors needs to coincide for these roses to flow.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it requires practice.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it requires, I would say, deliberate practice.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we need an intention.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: from all the participants to willingness to learn this new interaction.
• 27:12
  And it just came to my mind,
• 27:16
  I don't know where it would lead to,
• 27:22
  but I wanted to mention that
• 27:26
  I just remembered when I was starting the system coaching and
• 27:34
  we were really
• 27:35
  exploring how systems work and how to coach not the members of
• 27:41
  the system,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: but the system itself.
• 27:44
  this like element of venting out was the necessary step in the
• 27:50
  process always
• 27:51
  because you're like until these things that bubble me up they
• 27:58
  are out there until
• 28:00
  they're voiced out and i just like release this steam out
• 28:06
  myself sometimes
• 28:09
  no more constructive steps are possible towards any
• 28:15
  transformation of the system level.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it is indeed the question of mutual agreements of respect and how to
• 28:33
  execute this process so like how do i need to offload this
• 28:39
  stuff so it would not be
• 28:41
  directed at like as the blame as like as the conflict so it
• 28:48
  would not produce the
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: conflict
• 28:50
  the other person so it's just this is something that is
• 28:53
  happening to me i am
• 28:55
  putting it here and the other person also does not take it
• 28:59
  personally it's like
• 29:00
  okay i'm holding this space for this i know that this is
• 29:03
  something that needs to
• 29:04
  happen when in this together okay so now what together we can
• 29:11
  do with this system
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: Two very important things you just mentioned.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: I just I want to presence them even more,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: if you don't mind,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: is one is what do I want to cause as I speak?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's that's the other end of this.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:28
  What do I want to cause with how I'm speaking or what I'm
• 29:32
  speaking to or what's the
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: what's the result?
• 29:35
  And then the other very important thing is the one of the
• 29:37
  flavors or the aspects
• 29:40
  that can really get in the way of very powerful listening for
• 29:43
  whatever container
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: you're trying to create is taking things personally.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:48
  Because that's one of the very normal things for humans is to
• 29:52
  take everything
• 29:53
  personally or anything that comes at us that in some way wakes
• 29:59
  up something that we
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: personally haven't worked through within the
• 30:02
  very quickly goes into taking it personally and you're no
• 30:05
  longer actually holding
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: space for the other person and just maybe asking what's real for them,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: what's important for them.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: You're already in your head spinning with,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: what you think about this,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: how this plays out for you,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: And taking maybe not even the story of this person personally, but
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: The topic, personally.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: So all of these different ways that very quickly,
• 30:25
  because of all the neural pathways that have been built up for
• 30:28
  all these years,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: just quickly check us out of the actual presence with the other person.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: So unless we have these very clear...
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: understanding of what we need,
• 30:40
  what we want to cause and an agreement with the other person
• 30:43
  about how it is that
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: we need to be listened to.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many elements.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's so complicated.
• 30:49
  We just started this conversation and already both of you had
• 30:53
  so many different
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: aspects that your brains were trying to,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: grasp and tackle.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:58
  And yet we take this very natural human thing completely for
• 31:03
  granted if we start
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: talking about this,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 31:06
  How these pathways lead us in different directions and how a
• 31:11
  lot of times we are
• 31:12
  not able to cause what we want to cause or have the experience
• 31:15
  that we want to
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: experience because we don't even talk about,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: how do you want me to listen?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or what am I trying to cause with the way I'm speaking, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yule, is something coming up for you?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I keep catching myself that when,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Irina was talking,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: she said,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: what,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: what do I want or something like that?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But now what, what am I causing?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want to cause?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing that kept like wanting to come out,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: but I mean,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I will,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: I alone won't cause anything.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that is also,
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's a super important part.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Really, it's not me.
• 32:04
  Maybe I'm initiating something or maybe actually something is
• 32:07
  being initiated through me.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this process,
• 32:12
  even if I'm the one who is offloading or who has the impression
• 32:16
  that she's leading
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: something,
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: it's always,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: being aware and curious what other...
• 32:27
  forces are involved and it's also not that person or not only
• 32:34
  that person in front
• 32:35
  of you um and so totally this is so important to state the
• 32:44
  intention understand
• 32:47
  what you would like but then i'm being in flow with the
• 32:52
  experience sometimes things
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: happen and maybe sometimes
• 32:58
  shit happens like the person is going to be triggered in a way
• 33:02
  that they're not
• 33:03
  going to be able to contain and like having it within the range
• 33:13
  of outcomes maybe
• 33:16
  yeah i get alone could not really cause anything i'm there with
• 33:20
  this intention and
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: i know this person is with this intention
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: We have environment around us.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have our histories and a lot of stuff.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes if in the moment,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: even it feels like it didn't end the way both parties wanted,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe in the hindsight it did.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really good point you're making.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: And still,
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: if we do this self-awareness piece and actually asking for what we need,
• 33:54
  it still brings so much more awareness and consciousness to the
• 33:57
  interaction,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: even though,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: at the end of the day,
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: we're interacting with way more than just this person,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: let's say,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: in a one-on-one,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're also interacting with the energies in the space, potentially.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe even some woo-woo aspects that you're not even...
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: intentionally present to or intentionally causing.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many factors.
• 34:20
  And I think often for those of us that maybe are a little bit
• 34:28
  more detail oriented,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: if we start thinking about this,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: what we're discussing,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: it could get quite overwhelming because of how many aspects are involved.
• 34:39
  And I think that the natural function of the nervous system is
• 34:43
  to protect us and
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: not to waste energy.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you could go into a contraction around this and say,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: you know what,
• 34:48
  I'm not even going to think about this aspect because it's just
• 34:50
  too overwhelming.
• 34:51
  There's too many factors and it just feels like,
• 34:54
  you know,
• 34:55
  impossible to tackle.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And yet...
• 34:59
  From my own experience and my own experimentation in my life
• 35:05
  and also with the two
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: of you in different containers,
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: it really does actually,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: in a very counterintuitive way,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: create a lot more energy and a lot more opportunities for flow,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: for connection,
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: for like a real grounded understanding of yourself.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:23
  Even though,
• 35:24
  yes,
• 35:24
  it does require more energy and more headspace,
• 35:27
  more attention.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot more that's involved.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: And yet I think that the effort required is worth it.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Just wanted to put that out there.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Did you want to add something?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a gift, I guess, that you get when you put in so many things.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time,
• 35:56
  those experiences where you feel heard beyond the words and
• 36:03
  held and seen,
• 36:05
  they're so rare because a lot of things that we usually are not
• 36:10
  trained in and
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: don't even know until we ourselves
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: on our own initiative, research and practice.
• 36:23
  Those things,
• 36:26
  many,
• 36:26
  but they create some moments that are really extraordinary and
• 36:32
  memorable.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:40
  But also what came to my mind when you said that there are so
• 36:45
  many factors involved
• 36:46
  that it's very difficult to maintain them in the awareness and
• 36:54
  to tackle them.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it might create contraction.
• 36:58
  But I think it creates contraction when we try to tackle all
• 37:04
  this information and
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: decisions really at the rational level.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that is the thing,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: that this kind of process that we're talking about,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: it is possible when we expanding ourselves beyond the rational mind.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like...
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: What I remembered,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: it has nothing to do with the topic we're talking about,
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: but there is the connection,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I promise.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that when I was living in Asia,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: like in Bali,
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: in Bali,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: there is a lot of traffic.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, it's insane.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone is like riding the bikes and apart the bikes, there are...
• 38:01
  The trucks and the cars and when you go to the big cities,
• 38:07
  for the Western person,
• 38:08
  it's insane.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's impossible to tackle.
• 38:13
  So what I noticed when I was riding the bike in this absolute
• 38:18
  chaos of traffic on
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: the road is that
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: When you try to manage this situation,
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: really,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: as we are accustomed to manage them in our Occidental culture,
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: just remembering the rules,
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: following the rules,
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: trying to calculate in the mind what will happen,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: you get into the accident because it's impossible.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: All what you need to do is...
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: to be totally present in the situation.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then somehow it all sorts itself out on its own.
• 39:05
  You're like infernal number of elements participating in all
• 39:12
  this chaos,
• 39:12
  but it sorts it out.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it also reminded me that...
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: moment that we discussed recently in the episode of trust.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: When you gave us this stack of the questions and all our minds were like,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: wait a minute,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: wait a minute,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to remember all these questions.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Am I supposed to hold all these questions and the answers right now?
• 39:44
  And then at a certain moment,
• 39:47
  I remember I said to them,
• 39:48
  okay,
• 39:51
  I will turn off my rational mind
• 39:54
  And I will just trust the process and I will just trust that
• 40:00
  whatever information
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: that needs to merge and to connect to each other,
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: it will happen.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that in this kind of relating, it is the same thing.
• 40:13
  Like the first thing that we need to learn to be is to be
• 40:17
  present with oneself and
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: then to be present with oneself and the other person.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: All the rest is the matter of practice.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the presence also requires practice.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like the first step,
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: when you know how to be present and when you trust in the presence,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: all the rest unfolds somehow itself.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if maybe...
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is one thing that is important,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: but without some kind of a container,
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: only presence alone maybe wouldn't really work.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes me think to also in past episode that we did,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: maybe it was on trust,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: maybe it was on flow.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember,
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: but where we discussed how these two things,
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: some kind of structure,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: but then flexibility within
• 41:27
  Structure is what creates those conditions where something
• 41:34
  beautiful emerges.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: I actually, I agree with what both of you are presencing.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: And also,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder what the sequence is,
• 41:46
  because in order for someone to be able to embody what you
• 41:51
  either are describing,
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there needs to be,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: like you said,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: a pre-practice,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: a pre-attuning of,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: all these different elements that we may not be experiencing
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: We may not have their information for.
• 42:09
  We don't yet even have something in our brain that's available
• 42:14
  to us to be like,
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: wait,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: there is a different way that I can listen.
• 42:17
  Maybe there's a better question I can ask in the back of my
• 42:20
  head that will help
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: create a different experience when I'm speaking to this person.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I think those things would need to happen first.
• 42:29
  So that there's more things available so that when there is
• 42:33
  more available,
• 42:33
  then you can let go and trust that the best and highest can
• 42:38
  arise in the situation.
• 42:40
  But hoping that the best and highest can arise when you haven't
• 42:43
  yet even worked
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: some of those details out in your own mind,
• 42:48
  then you're kind of tuning or expanding into the field without
• 42:53
  really having the
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: ability to draw upon.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by this,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: praxis,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: because what I imagine to myself,
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: and I might be understanding you wrong...
• 43:18
  that you say like i first need to be able to imagine what kind
• 43:22
  of questions i might
• 43:24
  ask in order for this question to emerge in the moment when i'm
• 43:29
  present with
• 43:30
  another person and i'm not sure that this is the case like i'm
• 43:36
  not sure that we
• 43:37
  need to be able to prepare ourselves mentally for for the right
• 43:41
  information to
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: arrive
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's then let's do a demo.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Let's do a demo and test it in real time.
• 43:51
  I have a little exercise for us that could potentially give us
• 43:56
  a little bit more
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: insight into exactly what you're connecting with.
• 44:02
  So before we we jump into the demo,
• 44:07
  I just want to mention a few things just for referencing.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where am I coming from?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Where where where am I?
• 44:15
  What am I trying to weave into into the like the foundation of
• 44:19
  this conversation?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: The two of you know,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: because you've gone through positive intelligence with me,
• 44:27
  you know that the saboteurs come up and that is a way of
• 44:31
  filtering out information,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's a way that we could listen.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: And they interrupt your inner ability to hold space, to be open, right?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: They really create a lens through which you're looking.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: You're listening through.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one thing.
• 44:49
  um aspect that that I mean so for example yeah maybe quickly to
• 44:54
  specify click
• 44:55
  quickly that yeah there's uh patterns of behavior that we have
• 45:00
  historically adopted
• 45:01
  and that have clustered into some type of women personalities
• 45:07
  or something
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's true.
• 45:10
  So saboteurs are they were originally survival strategies when
• 45:16
  we were younger.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: They weren't saboteurs back then.
• 45:20
  They were parts of us that were actually trying to really help
• 45:23
  us survive and
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: thrive at work,
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: like just figure out how to be in the world.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:29
  And then for a lot of us,
• 45:32
  we end up growing up and those patterns don't really get
• 45:37
  upgraded.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: They just become even more ingrained and automatic.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: And all all strengths are are
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: on a spectrum.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: So on one side of the spectrum, there really are talents or gifts.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: Gallup is actually all about this.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: But on the other side of the spectrum,
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: they actually can become things that hijack our ability to to transcend,
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: to grow,
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: to evolve,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: to really hold space,
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: to really be present.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: So understanding what normal human aspects can be driving
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: your mind,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: the way you listen,
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: the way you perceive,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: the way you speak,
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: what you're causing,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: just like breaking this down into practical things is really helpful.
• 46:22
  It really helped me to start to normalize our human experience
• 46:25
  and also see what
• 46:27
  are the more practical ways that I can evolve whatever patterns
• 46:34
  that I had,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: let's say,
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: by the time I was in my 40s,
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:38
  Does that is that a good enough background for for some
• 46:42
  listeners that may not be familiar?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Anything either you want to add?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: No, to set the stage.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: OK, so so so these saboteurs originally were actual strengths.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:55
  But they've become saboteurs because they really keep us locked
• 46:58
  in to a specific
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: lens through which we are going to listen.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: what we're going to hear,
• 47:06
  what kind of information we're hunting for or what kind of
• 47:08
  outcomes we're hunting
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: for.
• 47:09
  And they really do end up being a bit of a nuisance and they
• 47:13
  hijack our greater
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: skills that we can develop as humans,
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 47:18
  Like that holding container,
• 47:20
  the ability to really be present,
• 47:22
  to not have judgment.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, the pleaser, right?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Those of us that have a pleaser tendency, right?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: They usually listen to what's right.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: What is the right thing?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or like, what do I need to say next so that they could really like me?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's how you're listening to something,
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: that's really going to affect both how you're able to hold space,
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: how you're hearing the other person,
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're not even really...
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: with the other person,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: no matter what the context of the situation is,
• 48:00
  you're actually with yourself and not just with yourself in
• 48:03
  like this open
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: container,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: that you were describing,
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: but you're with yourself in a very limited type of filtered way.
• 48:10
  You're hunting for what needs to happen for me to be liked in
• 48:14
  this situation.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Or, for example, the controller, they're always listening for efficacy.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're always preparing to fix something,
• 48:24
  to fix something from the way they think the world should be
• 48:27
  and how things should
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: go.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're like shippers in my life.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm familiar with these conversations.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, do you want to share?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: How do you see this play out and how does it affect listening,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: hearing,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: being able to be present to one another?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's my husband.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's so rational.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: He also is a scientist by education.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's very set on providing help and solving problems.
• 49:15
  Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: So where it took us in the past was
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, shit, just forget it, okay?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to shut up.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to tell you anything, right?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to keep things to myself.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then we did go through a lot of things,
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: discussing expectations of each other and what we were looking for.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: It helped.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: But still,
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 49:45
  we always have to be present because we do have a default set
• 49:49
  of expectations that
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: are so deeply wired.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: in this conversation,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: really important for me to not dare to solve any problems or to give any
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: suggestions or to give any solutions.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do not dare.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's like that, but it's.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a process.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yula,
• 50:17
  you're actually pointing to something that maybe we'll do in
• 50:20
  another episode
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: because it's way too big of a topic.
• 50:22
  But the difference between the committed state of mind that's
• 50:25
  Alison Armstrong is
• 50:26
  brilliant in the way she describes all of this and how the
• 50:29
  dynamics between like
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: the masculine and the feminine,
• 50:32
  but she calls it the committed state of mind versus the open
• 50:35
  state of mind.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: The committed state of mind, it's wired to listen for problems.
• 50:42
  to solve that's and it wants to provide solutions it's it's one
• 50:46
  of the ways that
• 50:46
  the the committed state of mind shows care um versus the open
• 50:52
  state of mind usually
• 50:53
  is searching for connection connection cannot necessarily
• 50:58
  happen if someone is
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: coming at you with solutions to problems
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to share and feel connected,
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: like we're on the same page,
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: like you understand what I'm feeling.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want a solution.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: There is no problem to solve.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: I just want us to be in the same reality, right?
• 51:14
  That could be one of the things that someone that's in the open
• 51:18
  state of mind wants
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: to feel as they're having a conversation.
• 51:23
  So that would really change the way they want the person
• 51:27
  listening to them,
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: how they want them to listen,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: But these things we don't really talk about.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: We don't really learn in school that, oh, wait a second.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is something that would be a good skill to have.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: Negotiating the way we're going to listen to one another.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Setting the stage.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Ida, what was coming up for you?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, what was coming for me that it's...
• 51:54
  If we're talking about the preparations that need to happen
• 51:59
  beforehand for this
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: kind of communication to occur,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: then definitely becoming aware of...
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Here I agree that this is the mental process that happens beforehand.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: The information you might need in advance.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some different kinds of maps that describe
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: all these filters that we're putting into our listening,
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: into our perception,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: how we're perceiving ourselves and the world and the other.
• 52:34
  So look,
• 52:35
  all the maps that describes all the patterns that prevent us
• 52:42
  from being present.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because you said it yourself that if I am in my saboteur's pattern,
• 52:50
  or whatever other pattern we may call them different ways i'm
• 52:54
  not present not
• 52:56
  really because i'm in this uh pattern of really survival you
• 53:04
  know i can deal with
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: whatever
• 53:08
  drama or problem that exists in my head or in inside of me and
• 53:14
  i'm not aware of it
• 53:16
  that i i need urgently to solve so whether i need to
• 53:21
  demonstrate that i can solve
• 53:22
  the problem of the other or i need to to please someone or i
• 53:27
  need to whatever but
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: in this case i'm not present
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 53:33
  And add to that the expectations that we have about how other
• 53:38
  people should think
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: or listen or what they should provide,
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: because we think that that's how it should be.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Alison describes it as like the perfect woman.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: The perfect woman has a way to do everything.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: Everything has to be done a certain way.
• 53:56
  And if anyone is not doing it that way,
• 53:58
  then that means there's something wrong with them.
• 54:01
  which automatically creates a crazy,
• 54:04
  like I say crazy,
• 54:05
  but it's a tough filter.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's not crazy,
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: it's normal,
• 54:09
  but it's a tough filter to be able to live through and still be
• 54:13
  able to connect to
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: your true self,
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 54:17
  Your true self beyond this perfection that a lot of people are
• 54:22
  trying to find,
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: to manifest,
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: to exhibit,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: This this perfect person.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't even have to be a gender like this perfect person.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: I should be this.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: You should be that.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: And this situation should be this.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 54:38
  This judgment,
• 54:39
  like in the positive intelligence,
• 54:40
  is the three phases of the judge,
• 54:42
  right?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: Judging yourself, judging the other and judging the circumstances.
• 54:46
  And we know from flow research that if you're coming into a
• 54:49
  conversation with judgment,
• 54:52
  that is certainly going to affect your ability to actually
• 54:56
  connect or have that
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: interpersonal positive loop like the Dan Siegel talks about.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 55:02
  So I'm just I'm just touching on all the things that we have
• 55:05
  talked about so far in
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: different episodes,
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: but really coming back to something that's I feel like so basic,
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: but so not basic in a in a judgy way.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 55:14
  so necessary to maybe put some focus and some care and
• 55:18
  attention into something we
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: don't usually even talk about.
• 55:23
  but something that can truly transform the experience that we
• 55:27
  are causing and the
• 55:28
  experience that we are receiving and the experience that we're
• 55:31
  co-creating,
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: whether it's with another human or even with life itself,
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: So that was just,
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: that's what I meant,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: Ir,
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: is if you have,
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Alison actually has this whole model about
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: there's a roadmap of how you get to partnership,
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: true partnership from her perspective,
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: which I won't go into.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's really quite brilliant, but also really requires true study.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: But the first point on one of her diagrams is acknowledgement.
• 56:09
  And acknowledgement requires for you to be able to grant
• 56:15
  something as real.
• 56:19
  Whether you agree with it,
• 56:22
  understanding is not required,
• 56:24
  just grant something is real.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: So someone else's reality,
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: someone else's need,
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: whether,
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: you agree with it or not,
• 56:34
  this is like kind of one of the most important elements in
• 56:38
  being able to have a
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: true holding space type of conversation,
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: That instead of judgment,
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: you're actually going into it and you're granting that the other person's
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: experience is real for them.
• 56:51
  Whether you understand it or not,
• 56:53
  whether you agree with it or not,
• 56:55
  you are granting.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you are radically accepting this person where they're at.
• 57:04
  how they're experiencing the world you are radically accepting
• 57:08
  and granting their
• 57:10
  experiences real as i describe that to you what does that bring
• 57:14
  up for you well i
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: read this article just a couple weeks ago onSubstack from someone um
• 57:27
  I actually mentioned already I don't remember in private
• 57:30
  conversation or the
• 57:32
  podcast he writes about the philosophy on language and actually
• 57:38
  his article was
• 57:39
  about radical acceptance and saying that the word radical has
• 57:43
  its roots in this
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: radius that goes to center.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is a movement nowadays,
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm going to get some things wrong,
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: probably because I didn't read it before this.
• 57:55
  But basically,
• 57:55
  if you imagine the circumference and then there is like a dot
• 58:02
  in the middle.
• 58:03
  And so how we are trying to connect is by following each other
• 58:10
  on the circumference.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this way, it's impossible to reach one another.
• 58:16
  it's it's kind of like far and very long and inefficient so
• 58:22
  radical connection is
• 58:25
  then it's about going to the center and to the center means to
• 58:32
  the core to the core
• 58:35
  of makes us human so that's kind of like i guess what's coming
• 58:40
  up for me when i
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: acknowledge
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: your experience i kind of like i trust you i see you i go beyond my human
• 59:00
  conditioning which is a very big step as it's a huge step and
• 59:06
  so this is i guess
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: where we
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: meet in the center.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know what else I'm hearing from you?
• 59:13
  Like that when I was tuning into what you were describing,
• 59:15
  there's also approval there.
• 59:17
  I approve of you automatically without needing any
• 59:21
  qualifications or pre-qualifications or like
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just approving of you as another human with their own experience,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: and I am granting it as real.
• 59:30
  And so I'm able to really tune out of all of those automatic
• 59:35
  patterns,
• 59:35
  right?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Which there is a consciousness,
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: there is a prompting required to be able...
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: Eventually,
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: it becomes more of a natural expansion into this ability,
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: What you were describing earlier.
• 59:46
  earlier but in order to be able to expand into this ability and
• 59:49
  for all the things
• 59:50
  to come together without you needing to consciously be like
• 59:54
  wait what question am i
• 59:55
  listening with what am i you know what's the point of the
• 59:57
  conversation like where
• 59:59
  we want to get to um requires some unwiring requires a lot more
• 1:00:05
  time spent um
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: considering um
• 1:00:09
  as real that maybe the way we listen doesn't have to be the way
• 1:00:13
  we listen like
• 1:00:14
  there are other options and also there's other preferences that
• 1:00:18
  people might have
• 1:00:19
  even accepting that as real that's already a step towards like
• 1:00:24
  whatever practice um
• 1:00:26
  whatever shifting is is uh available does that does that make
• 1:00:30
  sense what i'm
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: describing from my perspective
• 1:00:39
  actually made me to think of something yeah from my nutrition
• 1:00:45
  consulting practice
• 1:00:47
  and this is where i worked with people sometimes like doing and
• 1:00:52
  analyzing blood
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: tests and things and often people would come for i have like hmm
• 1:01:02
  recommendations outside of the standard recommendations because
• 1:01:05
  that's like
• 1:01:05
  nutrition consultant that means you are going outside of the
• 1:01:10
  system let's say and
• 1:01:12
  so the problem they would have is that they would have symptoms
• 1:01:15
  but then no tests
• 1:01:17
  would confirm that something is wrong with them and so i don't
• 1:01:22
  know i i haven't
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: been dealing thankfully thankfully with um
• 1:01:27
  um modern medical system a lot but it's such a big thing and i
• 1:01:33
  know in the states
• 1:01:34
  it's a huge thing while in russia as well where it's like you
• 1:01:39
  are not trusted if
• 1:01:41
  you are feeling something in the medical world that cannot be
• 1:01:47
  confirmed by the
• 1:01:48
  tests or found through the tests oftentimes you're like nope
• 1:01:53
  i'm not granting you
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: that acknowledgement
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, thank you for bringing that up.
• 1:01:59
  That's such a concrete example because it actually makes me
• 1:02:01
  feel so contracted and
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_03: so...
• 1:02:04
  Because I've had those situations where you come in and you
• 1:02:09
  know there's something
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: going on with your body.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know your body.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know when something is not working right.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, because they're looking at it only from their filter, right?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: And their sense of...
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: however they're measuring your experience.
• 1:02:25
  And then you end up feeling completely invalidated,
• 1:02:28
  like as if you're crazy,
• 1:02:30
  right?
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: You end up,
• 1:02:31
  if you're not strong enough in knowing yourself and really
• 1:02:34
  having your own back,
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: which,
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: we talked about in some other episodes,
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: And what's required for really trusting yourself.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_03: It could really send you down this,
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: a spiral of downward spiral of doubt and self-criticism and judgment and,
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: and really not a good outcome, right?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're coming for help and you're really,
• 1:02:59
  this is such a concrete example of feeling so invalidated and
• 1:03:04
  not radically
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: accepted and as real,
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: like whatever your experience is,
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: It really affects so much more than just even that one interaction.
• 1:03:17
  yeah and it's kind of the standard and it's become the standard
• 1:03:21
  and it's really
• 1:03:22
  yeah i think not to fall for something that is so ubiquitous
• 1:03:33
  exactly um so
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to bring another element in.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: So this radical acceptance,
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: the first time I felt it to like a big degree,
• 1:03:50
  a very amplified degree with a lot of people in a container was
• 1:03:55
  Kasia Urbaniak's
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_03: classes.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't at the beginning even understand what was happening.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_03: What was this thing that I was feeling?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was such a different experience with many women in the space.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I just felt so...
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: Acceptance like I felt like everyone was accepting of one another.
• 1:04:16
  I felt like everyone belonged no matter what's back what side
• 1:04:19
  of the spectrum in
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: terms of experience and thoughts and feelings it was.
• 1:04:24
  And then I understood that really that container was about
• 1:04:28
  radical acceptance at the top.
• 1:04:30
  like that's what we're coming in with we're not gonna coach
• 1:04:33
  each other we're not
• 1:04:34
  gonna give each other advice we're just gonna accept and hold
• 1:04:36
  space for one another
• 1:04:37
  and that was a really cool beautiful experience um and then
• 1:04:42
  when i was considering
• 1:04:43
  this this topic um one of the other things that i was
• 1:04:46
  reflecting on was for example
• 1:04:49
  sedona method is one of the modalities that allison uses and
• 1:04:53
  it's all about
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_03: welcoming what we feel
• 1:04:55
  like really radically welcoming the entire spectrum of what we
• 1:04:59
  feel in order to
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_03: dissolve the resistance,
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: which is what eventually leads to healing.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_03: And in internal family systems,
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: something that I am learning and implementing now in my practice,
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: you know, is really welcoming the different parts that come up.
• 1:05:16
  Also to unblend and welcome and really regard as real that we
• 1:05:21
  have different parts
• 1:05:22
  that have different needs and different feelings in order to
• 1:05:25
  also lead to healing
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: and like a more healed integration at the end.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: So like this acceptance, this welcoming, this
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_03: granting is real.
• 1:05:36
  These are patterns that I'm seeing like kind of threads
• 1:05:40
  throughout all of these
• 1:05:41
  different modalities that can really lead to a very different
• 1:05:46
  experience when we're
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: relating to ourselves,
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: but also another human or another situation.
• 1:05:52
  So I just wanted to bring that in as like one of the
• 1:05:58
  foundational pieces of how I'm
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: regarding this topic,
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_03: if that makes sense.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, did you want to do a demo?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_03: So can we do a little demo real quick?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: OK,
• 1:06:09
  so what we want to cause with this little experiment is just to
• 1:06:16
  kind of have a
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: sense of a difference in our experience,
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_03: both for the listener and the speaker.
• 1:06:23
  Based on what question is running in the back of our head,
• 1:06:26
  it's a very simple exercise.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm inviting the listeners also to do this exercise with us.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: So in the first part and I will be timekeeper,
• 1:06:37
  I'll let you know when to switch the question that's running in
• 1:06:40
  the back of your
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_03: head and I'll tell you which question you could choose from.
• 1:06:43
  But do this with us and try to track if there's a difference in
• 1:06:48
  your experience
• 1:06:49
  when you're listening with a more filtered type of question in
• 1:06:53
  the back of your
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: head versus more of a welcoming question in the back of your head.
• 1:06:58
  So the speaker is going to share something that you've been
• 1:07:01
  working on recently.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_03: This is not about the story.
• 1:07:04
  This is just you're providing some context so that the listener
• 1:07:09
  has a chance to
• 1:07:10
  listen to you and also run one of those two questions in the
• 1:07:12
  back of their head,
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:07:13
  So please decide which one of you wants to be the speaker and
• 1:07:16
  which one wants to be
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: the listener.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yula, Ira?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: Ira?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be the listener.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: Just think about something you've been working on recently.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: For how long do I need to speak?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to do this for two minutes.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: And for the first minute, and I will call time.
• 1:07:38
  For the first minute,
• 1:07:39
  Yulia is going to be listening with a more of a filter type of
• 1:07:42
  question.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: And for the second minute, you're going to continue with the same story.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: But for the second minute,
• 1:07:47
  she's consciously going to switch the question in the back of
• 1:07:50
  her head to a more
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_03: welcoming question.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: So...
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_03: The listener for the first minute,
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: you're going to intentionally allow a common filter,
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_03: judgment,
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_03: comparing,
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_03: planning a reply.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: What are you going to reply to?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: maybe listening for what problem is she having that you can,
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_03: relay some suggestions for.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:08:14
  Or are measuring her against the perfect version of like what
• 1:08:18
  she should be doing
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: or how how the situation should be going.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Just pick a really good like.
• 1:08:23
  filter you could like really feel in the back of your head and
• 1:08:26
  keep filtering.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: You want me to choose one question?
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, just a filter.
• 1:08:32
  So either you're going to judge her or you're going to be
• 1:08:34
  listening for what
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_03: problem is she have or like,
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: is this really the best way to do this?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, isn't there a better way to do this?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like something that's judgy, sabotory, right?
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hijacky, like a filter type of question.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_03: So pick one, whichever one works for you.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I call a minute,
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_03: when the minute is up,
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_03: you're going to switch to a more welcoming question.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to soften your body.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to breathe.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you're going to silently say, welcome.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to whatever Ida is sharing.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm holding space.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm welcoming all of it.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're going to track, how does it feel?
• 1:09:16
  Both of you,
• 1:09:17
  if you can,
• 1:09:18
  try to see if it shifts how you're feeling in your body.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah?
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: Does it make sense?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to tell you when to start.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: Let me just put my alarm on real quick.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_03: Hold on.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: My stopwatch.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_03: So one minute.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so go ahead.
• 1:09:40
  You know,
• 1:09:40
  you start speaking and Yulia,
• 1:09:42
  you will listen with a filtered question.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, go ahead.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:09:47
  what I have been working on recently was creating the short
• 1:09:54
  clips for social media
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: from our episodes to promote our podcasts.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I posted one new TikTok today and one new shot on YouTube.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone is interested, go find us and listen to us.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: But so...
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: The questions that were running in my head or they are not questions,
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: more like the tensions in my body was that this is...
• 1:10:36
  a very long process it takes me too much time and i was trying
• 1:10:42
  to fasten it up with
• 1:10:44
  the use of time yeah you'll switch the question to uh soften
• 1:10:50
  your body breathe and
• 1:10:53
  silently say welcome acceptance welcome and then we're gonna do
• 1:10:59
  this for another
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: minute sorry go ahead
• 1:11:03
  I was trying to make the process more productive and more
• 1:11:07
  efficient with the help
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: of CharGPT,
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: but one more time,
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: CharGPT was not that helpful as everyone is trying to picture it.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, at least in my case, it didn't solve the problem.
• 1:11:25
  So I was concerned that I'm still working on the first episode
• 1:11:30
  and we're now recording.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what is the number of the episode that we're recording.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so the process is slow, but we have already four TikToks.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not getting too many views so far,
• 1:11:50
  but I'm keeping telling myself that I will find one day the
• 1:11:56
  perfect clip that will
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: go viral and everyone will find out about our podcast.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Ira.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: I also hope that that will happen.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so now just to debrief a little bit, Ira, let's start with you.
• 1:12:18
  And maybe you didn't feel it because there was some pressure in
• 1:12:24
  sharing the story,
• 1:12:25
  but did anything shift in the way you were able to express
• 1:12:28
  between minute one and
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_03: minute two?
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it did.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if it did because of this shift in Eulestate.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe it was the case.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because indeed I felt this pressure that I really don't know what to say.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this pressure,
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was judging myself rather than I was concerned,
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: am I judged or not judged by the listener?
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_01: But so like, I don't know what played the role.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you're like, the process was interrupted.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just decided, okay, I will just go with whatever.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe you're like,
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: If there was a shift in the Euler state,
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: so it helped somehow to lighten up the field,
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: which helped me to relieve myself of my own judgments.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I did felt a little bit freer,
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: like less concerned,
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I will say whatever in the second part.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so I totally agree with you.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're bringing up some really great points.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_03: This was not like a blind, double-blind experiment.
• 1:13:56
  So there are definitely extra things that were part of what we
• 1:14:00
  were doing that
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: could have very well affected the whole experience.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_03: And yet...
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_03: You're also bringing up that you had your own self-judgment come up,
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_03: which is what we were discussing in the episode and how that affects,
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_03: How we're able to speak and what we're able to produce.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's actually brilliantly on point to what we were discussing today.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, maybe the break, the interruption also helped you shift, right?
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_03: So beyond whatever energy that Yulia was holding.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_03: But all these elements are so important.
• 1:14:33
  And they're so much part of what we go through that they're
• 1:14:37
  still relevant,
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_03: even for this experiment.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_03: But so thank you for sharing it.
• 1:14:43
  What shifted for you,
• 1:14:44
  Yul,
• 1:14:45
  if anything,
• 1:14:46
  as you moved from filtering to welcoming?
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt like I was wearing a space costume, or at least a big helmet.
• 1:15:02
  energy was concentrated in my head i was trying to stick with
• 1:15:07
  the question to keep
• 1:15:10
  track and so it resulted in tension here but also in more
• 1:15:18
  tension in my body so
• 1:15:20
  that was for me and then when it was about welcome i felt free
• 1:15:31
  actually even
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_01: to drop the words occasionally,
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_01: so to not to really keep track of anything,
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have my own question,
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: and just to focus on my being present for Ira,
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_01: which I experienced also as coming to the center,
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: now that I have
• 1:15:57
  you know,
• 1:15:57
  wow,
• 1:15:58
  what is it called this word that where you,
• 1:16:01
  I primed myself.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was coming to the center.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I did come to the center and I felt like this,
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: something warm and enveloping and holding it,
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_03: yeah.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_03: You see, it really changes what you're paying attention to, right?
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_03: And how that's what you just described.
• 1:16:30
  and also anything that the two of you can reflect on in terms
• 1:16:36
  of the field like the
• 1:16:37
  three of us in the switch between minute one and minute two
• 1:16:41
  anything else I really
• 1:16:48
  like this is the thing that I was thinking about while Yulia
• 1:16:53
  was sharing her
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_01: experience that
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_01: That is the problem.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the problem.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go for the radical acceptance.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was my experience,
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: and that was as real as it was,
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: is that I didn't pay attention,
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_01: neither to Yula.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It just came to my mind that it is supposed that I was speaking to Yula,
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_01: but I was looking to you believe what I was thinking.
• 1:17:28
  And so I didn't pay attention to,
• 1:17:32
  I was so focused on,
• 1:17:33
  like,
• 1:17:35
  what should I say?
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: That I didn't pay attention either to the field nor to the EULES.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it might be interesting to do this experiment without...
• 1:17:53
  setting so much the goal you want to tell about what you have
• 1:17:58
  been working on,
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: but just letting the words emerge from the presence.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: In the same way that as we are trying to steer our conversation,
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: that's okay,
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_01: pay attention to what is happening,
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: and whatever needs to be said,
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_01: say it, and then it would be easier to track...
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like how the field changes as the listener changes their state.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we could definitely do that experiment.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: That would be fun.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: I would love to.
• 1:18:40
  And yet everything both of you shared speaks exactly to what I
• 1:18:44
  was trying to
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: highlight,
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: which is when you're listening with a filter,
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's like putting on a helmet.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then switching to another way of listening,
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_03: even a welcoming,
• 1:18:59
  it still requires attunement if the point of the listening is
• 1:19:03
  also to capture the
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_03: details.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't need to capture the details, then it's perfect.
• 1:19:09
  You could just be open and welcoming and it's like a totally
• 1:19:11
  different energy.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_03: But what if you do need to actually listen to the story?
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_03: What if you do it, right?
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say it's a meeting.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_03: You actually do need some kind of action steps afterwards.
• 1:19:21
  So I'm just trying to highlight that there are a lot of pieces
• 1:19:24
  involved that are
• 1:19:25
  actually quite important that we may not be consciously aware
• 1:19:29
  of or even...
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're working on figuring out for ourselves and between ourselves.
• 1:19:36
  And yet we do it even when we we just are,
• 1:19:40
  you know,
• 1:19:40
  talking about topics in the podcast.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_03: We do these things in the background all the time.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're just not necessarily presencing.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_03: What's happening?
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:19:48
  And we had this conversation about how how flow happens and how
• 1:19:52
  trans happens and
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_03: all of that in the background.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_03: We don't always presence how we're listening, what's happening.
• 1:19:58
  Are we being intentional about the way we're holding space for
• 1:20:02
  the conversation?
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:20:03
  So I'm just I wanted to bring that in a little bit more because
• 1:20:07
  I think it's super important.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_03: And Ida,
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_03: you see,
• 1:20:10
  I'm having an exercise of saying something and also bringing in
• 1:20:14
  so many filters and
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_03: really interrupt your ability to be in the flow,
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_03: In the flow and picking up the data of the field, right?
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it was brilliant.
• 1:20:24
  This experiment in a way was actually perfect for what we were
• 1:20:28
  discussing today.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: And yet,
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_03: we could do an even better experiment next time,
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_03: like more high level and see how that works.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_03: What are we going to say?
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say that it's definitely a very good experiment,
• 1:20:43
  and it is illustrating that it's not only about how we are
• 1:20:47
  listening to the other
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_01: person,
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_01: but also how we are speaking,
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_01: from what place we speak,
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: and with how much presence.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 1:21:02
  And in this sense,
• 1:21:04
  I love the question that you voiced out,
• 1:21:09
  what do I want to cause?
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Aside from all the factors that Yulia mentioned,
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_01: that we're not alone,
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_01: and it's called the multiple factors that are confluent in any situation,
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_01: that...
• 1:21:27
  affect whatever happens and whatever emerges but still like the
• 1:21:33
  mere question
• 1:21:36
  invites us to become aware of like what am i saying why am i
• 1:21:45
  saying it why am i
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_01: saying it this way the way i say it because it is about like we don't
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Unawarely, unconsciously, we do want to cause something.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're not aware of it,
• 1:22:06
  it really can lead to many difficult situations and unwanted
• 1:22:13
  results in our
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_01: communications.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I just want to call it out to the audience.
• 1:22:22
  For those of you that were listening along and even playing
• 1:22:25
  along with us,
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_03: please check in and maybe take a note,
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_03: jot it down.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_03: What was your experience like in the first minute?
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_03: What did you maybe feel in the field between the three of us?
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_03: What did you maybe feel in your body specifically?
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe as you were tuning in with Yulia?
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_03: or Ida, you know, whichever one, what was it like for you in minute one?
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what was it like for you in minute two?
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Were there any shifts?
• 1:22:49
  It would be very interesting for us to actually hear from you
• 1:22:52
  if you care to comment.
• 1:22:54
  If you're able to pick up on those subtle energies as well as
• 1:22:58
  you're listening to
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_03: us and potentially playing along,
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_03: it would be really cool.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_03: Please write in and share with us.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_03: We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so just as a little bit of a we're almost out of time.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_03: So to start wrapping up,
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just going to say again,
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_03: like filters are very important to be aware of,
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_03: to pay attention to,
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_03: to be even maybe aware.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_03: intentional about, right?
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because they can really change the way we hear and how we listen and what
• 1:23:28
  experience we're providing for the person that is speaking with
• 1:23:31
  us or what we're
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_03: trying to cause in the interaction.
• 1:23:34
  There's so many different aspects and just changing
• 1:23:38
  intentionally the question
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_03: that's running in the back of your head can really create a difference.
• 1:23:43
  can really shift the experience for you and for the other
• 1:23:47
  person for the field.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Radical acceptance and approval just at the top,
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_03: just granting something is real can be an extraordinary shift
• 1:24:01
  Just that alone,
• 1:24:03
  I think I've certainly felt it when we were talking about it.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_03: I felt energetically what that could cause.
• 1:24:10
  I felt the two of you considering that aspect in your bodies
• 1:24:16
  and your energy
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_03: systems,
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_03: I could feel some of like,
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_03: there was a response in both of you to considering this is like,
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_03: oh my God,
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_03: can we just grant each other this at the top of every conversation?
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't that be so cool?
• 1:24:32
  and the acknowledgement that could happen and then all of the
• 1:24:35
  other things that
• 1:24:35
  SPEAKER_03: could happen from that,
• 1:24:38
  that would be really on the scale of evolving and going beyond
• 1:24:44
  our normal human
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_03: conditioning and wiring and all of that.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_03: And also just welcoming how it deepens the field,
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_03: welcoming,
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_03: welcoming whatever it is,
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_03: welcoming wherever you are on the spectrum,
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_03: like what that causes.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_03: in terms of the energy and the field.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_03: And also we know that group flow can arise in many different ways, right?
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_03: We've experimented in several at this point in our episodes.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it could be spontaneous and even without much structure.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_03: But how we listen really does shape the quality and depth.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_03: of that flow.
• 1:25:25
  With filtering,
• 1:25:25
  flow can feel thin,
• 1:25:27
  fragile,
• 1:25:28
  constricted,
• 1:25:28
  tense in the body,
• 1:25:30
  right?
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_03: The way we've experienced today.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_03: But with welcoming,
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_03: it becomes richer,
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_03: becomes safer,
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_03: even more creative,
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_03: more soft,
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_03: more inviting,
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_03: more accepting,
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_03: And just a last question for us to consider as a group.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_03: How do you see listening shaping not just the one-on-one connections,
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_03: but really group flow,
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_03: whether it's in teams and families and communities in our group?
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's coming up for both of you as you consider that question?
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know what came from my mind?
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do a lot of theater when I was young.
• 1:26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And once at one theater group, I was present at the rehearsal.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't participate in it.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't have any role in the show.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just sitting in the... You're like...
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is the name?
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Audience?
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_01: The audience?
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was in the audience.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was a rehearsal.
• 1:26:42
  But yeah,
• 1:26:43
  I was sitting in the scene,
• 1:26:44
  in the audience hall as an audience.
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I had nothing to do with the show, actually.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was just doing my homework.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was starting in the university then.
• 1:26:57
  And so a member of the group who was also not participating in
• 1:27:03
  the rehearsal,
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: she didn't have a role in that scene either.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: She came to me and she started explaining to me,
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_01: said like,
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_01: like you can't do that because you're like,
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_01: even though you're not participating in the,
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_01: like what's happening on the stage,
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you are not paying attention,
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_01: your attention is someone somewhere else,
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_01: you are influencing the whole flow.
• 1:27:33
  And it doesn't flow for them on the stage because you are not
• 1:27:39
  paying attention to them.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't really understand what she was talking about then.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I realized it only way,
• 1:27:52
  way later that it's really about the presence or the lack of
• 1:27:57
  presence of any group
• 1:28:00
  member influences the group field and everything what emerges
• 1:28:05
  and how it emerges.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_03: And of course,
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_03: some of us are going to be more sensitive to it and less sensitive to it,
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_03: depending on our makeup,
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_03: and what we're conscious and aware of.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_03: But absolutely.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for sharing that.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's a brilliant example.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yulia, what did you want to share?
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I have something very smart to share.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't have to be smart.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it has to be funny somehow, right?
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have just a little bit of time.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28:45
  I was thinking that there's so many opportunities that being in
• 1:28:51
  a group can provide.
• 1:28:53
  And then being in a group can also create an experience of
• 1:28:57
  being lonely and feeling
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_01: kind of like an outcast.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_01: On the other side of the spectrum, it can create...
• 1:29:08
  real bliss of being held of being just like so seen i've had
• 1:29:17
  those experiences so
• 1:29:20
  this yes a very emergent field that the group can create but at
• 1:29:30
  the same time
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_01: The more people there are, the more variables there are.
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why group flow, it's so evasive, right?
• 1:29:40
  So people really want it,
• 1:29:41
  but then creating it is art,
• 1:29:46
  I guess,
• 1:29:46
  more than science.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you for modeling that art,
• 1:29:51
  SPEAKER_03: because as you described,
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_03: those qualities of what a really good container could create,
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_03: I actually felt it in my body.
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_03: It felt so good.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_03: I even had tingles.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't about what you were saying.
• 1:30:06
  It was about actually energetically what you were displaying,
• 1:30:08
  what you were modeling.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved it, and I was able to connect to it.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it was, wow, brilliant.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Were you able to connect energetically to what you were...
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_03: kind of underneath the words?
• 1:30:22
  Honestly,
• 1:30:22
  I was more engaged in the images that were coming in my mind
• 1:30:29
  while Güler was speaking.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_03: See, thank you for being honest.
• 1:30:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is actually,
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_03: to the listeners,
• 1:30:39
  this is something we talked about being a little bit even more
• 1:30:42
  transparent about
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_03: our own individual experiences as we connect in the space and
• 1:30:48
  kind of plotting and mapping out all the different aspects that
• 1:30:53
  come together for
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_03: group flow,
• 1:30:55
  specifically in our container and for us as individuals as we
• 1:30:59
  experiment and play
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_03: together.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I just wanted to call it out to the audience.
• 1:31:05
  Please picture yourself being part of a group and consider what
• 1:31:11
  could shift if
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_03: everyone practiced just welcoming listening.
• 1:31:18
  listening with a welcoming kind of intention and energy in the
• 1:31:21
  background.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_03: What might shift?
• 1:31:24
  Whether it's at work or it's in your family or in your friend
• 1:31:29
  groups,
• 1:31:30
  what might shift?
• 1:31:31
  And what might shift if just you started listening differently
• 1:31:37
  and priming and
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_03: cueing your brain differently?
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_03: to something else, to listening, to holding space to something else.
• 1:31:46
  It's just like a nice little thing to consider and potentially
• 1:31:50
  integrate into your life.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think that we are out of time.
• 1:32:01
  So do you want to leave us,
• 1:32:04
  both of you,
• 1:32:04
  with any final thoughts about our experiment today?
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Anything even behind the scenes about your experience?
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love that we did a dance before.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was great.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but our listeners will not see the dance.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was before the recording.
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really loved, like, what do I want to cause?
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_01: The question, grant something is real.
• 1:32:40
  And this metaphor of the circle and the center of the circle is
• 1:32:48
  a radical acceptance.
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, those were really beautiful.
• 1:32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yulia, what did you want to say?
• 1:32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm done.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love all the three things that Ira named.
• 1:33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:33:08
  SPEAKER_03: I also love the dancing we did at the beginning,
• 1:33:11
  SPEAKER_03: even though that's not part of the episode,
• 1:33:13
  SPEAKER_03: but still it helped to circulate the energy and loosen us up.
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I just want to leave us with,
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_03: that group flow isn't something we force,
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_03: whether it's,
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_03: group or like just one-on-one interaction with someone.
• 1:33:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's something we allow, right?
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_03: When we set down our filters,
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_03: when we loosen the grip on the perfect version of ourselves or the other,
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_03: the circumstance,
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_03: when we listen with radical acceptance,
• 1:33:43
  SPEAKER_03: when we stop standing in the way of the current...
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_03: of energy, of the exchange, right?
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_03: In the field, in us.
• 1:33:52
  SPEAKER_03: And we begin moving together.
• 1:33:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's really,
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 1:33:57
  the type of flow that could be the most free and joyful and
• 1:34:03
  blissful and connecting
• 1:34:04
  SPEAKER_03: and maybe grounding and maybe we could learn more.
• 1:34:07
  So I'm just kind of also trying to energetically model what I'm
• 1:34:14
  trying to cause
• 1:34:18
  So please,
• 1:34:20
  to whoever was with us on this journey today,
• 1:34:22
  please experiment.
• 1:34:24
  Please share with us what you might have experienced with us,
• 1:34:29
  within yourself,
• 1:34:30
  in the field.
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_03: This is...
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_03: An experiment where we really want to hear from you as well.
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_03: We want to see,
• 1:34:38
  SPEAKER_03: hear,
• 1:34:38
  maybe experience what are we causing for you as you listen to
• 1:34:42
  our episodes.
• 1:34:43
  Because it definitely helps us to connect more with what we're
• 1:34:47
  co-creating with the
• 1:34:48
  SPEAKER_03: field and not just the three of us.
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much.
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_03: We really appreciate it.
• 1:34:54
  And thank you too for playing with me and for sharing so openly
• 1:34:59
  and vulnerably.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 1:35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time.
• 1:35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for listening.
• 1:35:08
  SPEAKER_03: How was it for you?
• 1:35:10
  We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
• 1:35:14
  the better off we all are.
• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_01: More connected, more creative, more alive.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let's expand the field.
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_01: If this episode resonated with you, help us spread the word.
• 1:35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Share it with a friend, leave a comment or give us a rating.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_01: We love you.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do subscribe so you'll know when the next experiment comes out.
• 1:35:40
  SPEAKER_03: You can also connect with us on our Life & Flow group Substack.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_03: We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Let's keep flowing together.