Latest / Substack Writers Salon / How David Mcllroy Sells Books on Substack

Transcript

How David Mcllroy Sells Books on Substack · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are live.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, to another episode of the Substack Writers' Salon.
• 0:06
  And we have today someone who is very popular and very
• 0:14
  well-known in the Substack sphere,
• 0:18
  David.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just look at all these people who are joining now.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can't keep up.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they're not joining for me.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're joining for you, David.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, truly.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: David,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think you and I were chatting before,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: like we were chatting in the green room before we're going live.
• 0:38
  And I think today the focus is not going to be about like the
• 0:43
  tricks and tips of
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: substand growth.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot about that.
• 0:48
  I think I want to go more niche and I'm going to niche down and
• 0:51
  I talk about selling books.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you're an author,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: published a number of books,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: and you've been very active on Substack,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: talking about your books.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I am, you know, I've been watching you and see how you do it.
• 1:09
  You know,
• 1:10
  I'm honestly not doing a good job selling my books the way
• 1:13
  you're doing it.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like yesterday, I noticed in the office hours,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned your upcoming book, so that's nice.
• 1:19
  So if you can tell me what is your strategy about selling your
• 1:23
  books on Substack
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: and beyond,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: but we can start on Substack.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: you can first introduce yourself,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: tell everyone who's joining who you are,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: what you do and all of that.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, thanks, Natasha.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you having me here.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as Natasha said, I'm David.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on Substack.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an author, I'm a writer, I'm a creator and small business owner.
• 1:43
  And Natasha and I have been in touch now for maybe the last
• 1:46
  year or two,
• 1:47
  I think.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: We've been speaking on Substack for a while, which is cool.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: as Natasha said,
• 1:52
  I've been writing books and selling books that I've worked with
• 1:56
  small publishers on
• 1:57
  and that I self-published myself and been really trying to
• 2:01
  experiment with ways to
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: promote those books over the last sort of couple of years.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been a fun process.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to talk more about that today.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess, Natasha, to answer your first question,
• 2:11
  I think the initial thing that I do a lot on Substack to
• 2:15
  promote books is just to
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: talk about them at every available opportunity.
• 2:18
  So you mentioned about the Substack live office hours I did
• 2:21
  yesterday,
• 2:22
  which I do once a week.
• 2:23
  And I'll almost always bring up my books at some point in that
• 2:26
  conversation and
• 2:27
  just try and bring them into the conversation in an organic way
• 2:30
  and just mention
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: that I have them.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for instance, here's one here.
• 2:34
  So there's one of my books and you can definitely check it out
• 2:37
  later if you want to.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 2:39
  I think it's just trying to be organic and human about it and
• 2:43
  try to not make
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: things sound like an ad whenever I'm talking.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: about books, just try and weave it into conversation naturally.
• 2:51
  Because I think people on Substack in particular really connect
• 2:54
  with the real human
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: side of us as creators,
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: not the real polished,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: often kind of AI scripted side,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you can sell books in that same human way,
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: it definitely has the most tangible impact,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: How did your efforts reflect in the book sales?
• 3:16
  Did you see an uptake or do you see the majority of people who
• 3:20
  are reading and
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: buying your books are from Substack?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is the ROI on your efforts?
• 3:30
  It's hard to say what the ROI is exactly because it can't ever
• 3:34
  really tell.
• 3:37
  if someone is saying something on Substack or TikTok or
• 3:40
  Instagram or whatever.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know from what I do that a lot of people see my books,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: they find out about my books through somebody else,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: through word of mouth,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: and that in particular happens on TikTok.
• 3:52
  I've approached a lot of people over the last few weeks about
• 3:55
  my book that's coming
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: out this week.
• 3:57
  And something they say a lot to me in direct messages is,
• 4:01
  oh,
• 4:01
  I know about this book.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I heard somebody else talking about it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to read it.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think in particular,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: if you can get other people talking about your book,
• 4:12
  it starts to generate a bit of buzz and a bit of excitement
• 4:14
  about it ahead of it
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: coming out.
• 4:15
  And then you can start to see that reflected in sales happening
• 4:19
  on IngramSpark,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: which is the platform that I use.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can see an uptick in sales.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: around the time a book comes out,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's whenever you'll see the most sales coming through.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the real peak point.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always looking at ways that I can find more...
• 4:36
  eyes and more readers for my current books that are already in
• 4:39
  existence and trying
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: to find ways to promote this
• 4:44
  in an organic way too so I'm always open to talk about that
• 4:47
  Natasha with you if
• 4:48
  you've come up with anything too in terms of promoting things
• 4:51
  in a like passive
• 4:52
  kind of way to your audience yeah I mean okay so you you
• 4:57
  mentioned a lot of things
• 4:58
  and I want to just kind of slow down and try to unpack what you
• 5:02
  mentioned so you
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: mentioned in the beginning that you had a small publisher and now you're
• 5:06
  self-publishing so are you self-publishing all of your books
• 5:09
  and why and um
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: First, let's talk about that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because last time we talked, I think I had you on my podcast.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:18
  And you had the publisher,
• 5:19
  and I think you were about to publish your first book.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of things changed since then, and you're a superstar.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: See, I recognized your genius early on.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So what changed?
• 5:36
  What happened with the small publisher,
• 5:38
  and why did it go solo and all of that?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let's slow down and tell us what happened.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so basically with the small publisher, I am still...
• 5:53
  with that with that guy because i'm publishing my young adult
• 5:56
  fantasy series with
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: them so um what i decided to do was with my adult horror novels i am
• 6:02
  self-publishing those through my own uh label i guess or
• 6:06
  publishing house which
• 6:07
  doesn't actually exist yet as a fully fledged uh um official
• 6:11
  thing but i plan to
• 6:12
  sort of fully set that up in future and under like my own kind
• 6:15
  of label for my
• 6:15
  horror side of things and at the minute it's just very much a
• 6:18
  self-publishing thing
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: like three through me but
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know that with horror in particular, it's quite a niche thing.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And not every publisher necessarily wants to promote horror as much,
• 6:29
  especially if they've already promoted something like fantasy
• 6:31
  to young people.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to keep that separate and just focus on that for myself.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It means I'm...
• 6:38
  I'm more in control then of how I promote it and the kind of
• 6:42
  people that I connect
• 6:43
  with to promote it because you might want to reach out to a
• 6:45
  certain kind of TikTok
• 6:47
  influencer who likes horror and is going to create a certain
• 6:49
  kind of content.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: That might not necessarily gel so well with your other books,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: which are aimed more at fantasy and younger people.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of the thinking there.
• 6:56
  I was just trying to sort of split them based more on genre
• 7:00
  than anything else.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was worked quite well.
• 7:03
  So you mentioned you sell your books on IngramSpark,
• 7:07
  so you're not using KDP?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't use Amazon KDP at the minute.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: I might use it in the future.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I might use it alongside IngramSpark,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: but at the minute,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: so far,
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I quite like the process with Ingram,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: and it has worked quite well.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I need to experiment more and see how I can improve it,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: but I will probably use Amazon KDP in the future,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: but at the minute,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: it's just Ingram.
• 7:32
  Okay,
• 7:32
  so why not KDP since it's like the biggest platform for
• 7:40
  self-published authors?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I use KDP and IngramSpark.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still messing with it.
• 7:47
  My understanding is IngramSpark is for booksellers to find your
• 7:51
  book,
• 7:51
  right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: that's kind of the...
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I just bought...
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: It took me forever to figure this out because I'm a boomer.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just...
• 7:59
  I posted it on IngramSpark and my understanding is the idea if
• 8:05
  I can go to any
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: bookshop and I tell them,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: you can order my book in hard copies from IngramSpark,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: correct?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole point.
• 8:15
  So why do you have it on IngramSpark as well for people to buy
• 8:20
  it from their store
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: rather than using Amazon KDP?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you make that choice?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:28
  I think long-term,
• 8:30
  the plan is to do a lot more with independent booksellers.
• 8:34
  So I'd rather support smaller independent booksellers in real
• 8:39
  life than support
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Amazon,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: if that makes sense.
• 8:42
  Obviously,
• 8:43
  Amazon's kind of a necessary evil in many ways when it comes to
• 8:47
  books.
• 8:47
  So I know there's a lot of independent bookstores won't touch
• 8:51
  your book if you're
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: selling it on Amazon.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you do have to kind of make that choice sometimes.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them just, if it's on Amazon, they just won't sell it themselves.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 9:01
  So I think I'm trying to think longer term about it and about
• 9:04
  how I might want to
• 9:05
  work in conjunction with lots of small independent booksellers
• 9:09
  and promote them
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: rather than just try and do it through Amazon.
• 9:11
  But it's a much of a muchness because I'm going to be trying
• 9:15
  things like paid ads
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: and stuff a little bit more in 2026.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to kind of experiment with that and see how that goes.
• 9:21
  And that's obviously going to be linked to Amazon more than
• 9:23
  anything else.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it might change in future,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love being able to go into an independent bookstore and
• 9:30
  And say,
• 9:30
  I have this book and they can look it up and they can just
• 9:32
  order it themselves.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 9:35
  it's a nice feeling being able to support somebody else as a
• 9:37
  small business owner
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: myself,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nice to be able to do that.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But let me understand.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So if I have my book on both KDP and IngramSpark,
• 9:47
  I can still walk to an independent bookstore and I tell them
• 9:49
  you can order it,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: correct?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: But some of them... Yeah, yeah, you can't, yeah.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: But some of them you say, oh, you're on Amazon.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: But isn't that a bit pretentious?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: What you think is that you can go to a bookstore and they tell you,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: you're on Amazon,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: we're not going to touch your book.
• 10:04
  I mean,
• 10:04
  it's,
• 10:05
  you know,
• 10:05
  they're kind of cutting a lot of writers out of the equation.
• 10:09
  I mean,
• 10:13
  or am I being,
• 10:14
  again,
• 10:15
  such a boomer that,
• 10:17
  you know...
• 10:18
  No,
• 10:18
  not at all.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the bookstores that refuse to deal with Amazon,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: they might be even difficult to work with,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: no?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think personally,
• 10:34
  I do think that bookstores definitely can still sell books that
• 10:38
  are on Amazon as
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: well.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it really isn't that much of an issue.
• 10:40
  But I just know that there are some that think if my book is on
• 10:44
  Amazon and I sell
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: it for a certain price,
• 10:47
  the first thing someone's going to do is check what price it is
• 10:49
  on Amazon.
• 10:50
  And if it's cheaper,
• 10:50
  they're just going to order it there rather than support the
• 10:53
  bookstore.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think maybe that's their rationale about it.
• 10:57
  They may be just trying to think about their own sort of bottom
• 10:59
  line financially.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: They definitely can't do both.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it just depends on which bookstore you approach.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk a bit about TikTok.
• 11:11
  And not many authors,
• 11:15
  at least on Substack,
• 11:16
  talk about TikTok and their success.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to tell you my experience and tell me what I did wrong.
• 11:24
  so what i what i did is and i always do things wrong but
• 11:28
  anyways so so what i did is i
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I created this bookstore or a store on TikTok through my company.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to go through all this paperwork.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then now I posted my books on the store.
• 11:52
  And so the two strategies that I did,
• 11:56
  one is I contacted all these influencers.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I sent them the book and...
• 12:01
  they get a cut if they sell it through the store and especially
• 12:04
  you go with live
• 12:05
  video i only sold one through and that was not through an
• 12:10
  affiliate that the
• 12:11
  affiliate did not sell me anything the the book that i sold in
• 12:16
  tiktok through the
• 12:17
  tiktok shop directly was me reading from the book and i say by
• 12:22
  the way you can buy
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: the book from this video which is like the shoppable video
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been my strategy.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: But what have you been doing selling books on TikTok?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious to hear.
• 12:34
  And I think you should have a sub-stack post about selling
• 12:37
  books on TikTok because
• 12:39
  I think very few authors know about it or talk about it or know
• 12:43
  that this option
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: exists.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:51
  So probably kind of similarly to you,
• 12:53
  I have like a TikTok shop for my books.
• 12:55
  And similarly to you,
• 12:57
  I think I'm going to be only sold like one or two through that
• 12:59
  directly.
• 13:01
  So I don't know if I can speak to how effective TikTok shops
• 13:05
  are for selling books.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: What will happen for me is if someone sees my book on TikTok,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: they'll go and buy it somewhere else.
• 13:12
  They'll buy it on Amazon or something or Waterstones or
• 13:15
  wherever it is they get books.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really direct people at any particular place to buy my books.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just say wherever you buy your books,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: just go and buy it there,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: wherever they're most comfortable with.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if TikTok shop for me is definitely the best option.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of promotion,
• 13:33
  I think TikTok is great because you've got a lot of people
• 13:36
  there who love making
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: content about books.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they love being on camera.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: They love, you know, just they know how to do it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're much more effectively than I do when it comes to TikTok.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I will give them digital copies, sometimes physical copies.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if they want to make content about the book, then they can.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: If they like it, they can make a review video.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then they can leave a review on Goodreads and Amazon and stuff too.
• 13:59
  So you kind of kill multiple birds with one stone because you
• 14:03
  get reviews for your book.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You get feedback.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: If there's any mistakes or things maybe that people don't like,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: you can maybe still fix if you have time.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you get seals as well.
• 14:11
  Because even if you give away a free digital copy sometimes to
• 14:14
  someone to read as a
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: better reader.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: an arc reader,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: they'll still go out and buy your book themselves anyway,
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: just to have a physical copy of it.
• 14:23
  So I find anyway that TikTok is an amazing platform for finding
• 14:30
  readers and people
• 14:30
  who are going to promote your book for you and do that kind of
• 14:34
  video kind of work
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: that you don't want to do.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a positive experience so far for me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: So how are you finding these people?
• 14:40
  Are you using the affiliate program that they have or are you
• 14:44
  just going randomly
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: and looking for people and contacting them?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: so for instance,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: if I've got a book coming out,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: like this humbug that's coming out very soon,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: it's a horror novel.
• 15:00
  So what I'll do is I'll just go onto TikTok and I'll search
• 15:02
  things like book talk,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: horror,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: recommendations,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: that sort of stuff.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then just kind of browse through the videos that are there and see...
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: who's made a video recently where they're promoting other horror novels.
• 15:13
  And then I'll just reach out to that person via direct message
• 15:15
  and just say,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this book coming out.
• 15:17
  Would you be interested in reading and reviewing it in advance
• 15:20
  if you like a free
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: digital copy of it?
• 15:22
  And you might have to contact a good number of people in order
• 15:25
  to get a few coming
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: back,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: be willing to do it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: But generally,
• 15:28
  I would say maybe every like 10th person who you message will
• 15:32
  come back and say,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: yes,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: that's great.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you just send them a copy of it and they'll read it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 15:37
  you have to keep a good list of those people on a spreadsheet
• 15:40
  so you can reach out
• 15:40
  to them again in the future and follow up with them to make
• 15:42
  sure they've actually
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: read it.
• 15:44
  It is a bit of a long,
• 15:45
  grueling process,
• 15:47
  but I do think it is effective for getting reviews.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think my book
• 15:57
  on Goodreads have a decent number of reviews compared to other
• 16:00
  books that have been
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: out for longer,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: which still have less or fewer reviews.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it is an effective strategy.
• 16:05
  And if I just actually sent more messages,
• 16:07
  I probably would do better with it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it's worked so far.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you have not tried their affiliate program.
• 16:14
  And the affiliate program is...
• 16:17
  So you basically send them the book,
• 16:21
  copy of the book.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: You made them the copy of the book.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they keep promoting it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then they take a cut from every sale.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so they promote it on their stock shop.
• 16:33
  because they will create shoppable videos for you and then
• 16:37
  they'll take a cut if
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: they sell your book.
• 16:41
  But yeah,
• 16:42
  so that's...
• 16:43
  Yeah,
• 16:43
  something I might do in the future,
• 16:44
  yeah,
• 16:45
  definitely.
• 16:45
  So how much time are you spending on TikTok versus Substack
• 16:49
  versus your own writing
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: versus all of what you do?
• 16:52
  Like how is your day divided in terms of all these tasks that
• 16:58
  you're doing?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you're very active.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think TikTok I'm quite inconsistent with.
• 17:07
  There are times where I'll spend a lot of time on it and get
• 17:10
  really into it and
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: send a lot of messages and create a lot of content and stuff like that.
• 17:14
  And then I'll maybe just go a few days or a few weeks without
• 17:17
  really looking at it
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: very much,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: just kind of the way it is.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Substack, I'm pretty consistent.
• 17:21
  I'm on every day and probably spend a couple of hours in
• 17:24
  Substack a day at least,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: just kind of interacting and creating content and things like that.
• 17:29
  And then in terms of writing,
• 17:30
  I have a portion of time in the morning when I write fiction.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm supposed to anyway.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll write stuff for Substack later in the day,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: in the afternoon,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: and then work on other things in between.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I still work a general sort of like nine to five length kind of day.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's all on stuff that I want to do.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: that I find really good fun.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't ever feel like it's a lot of work.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of how you're getting your income, do you have any client work?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: What are your income streams?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: How is your income coming from as a full-time solopreneur?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: The whole premise of your Substack is how to make a living from writing.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what are your income streams if you're comfortable sharing?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:23
  So I mentioned to you just before we started,
• 18:25
  whenever you were in the green room.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: That I recently started doing one-to-one coaching.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a relatively easy thing for me.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: that's one income stream,
• 18:35
  which will probably be a significant one over time as they get
• 18:38
  more clients.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do you coach them?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: so it's coaching on,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: building your personal brand and building like a writing beast.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of doing what I'm doing.
• 18:54
  A lot of people will come to me and want to know how to make
• 18:57
  money as a writer and
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: how do they build out this bigger audience?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do they build a magnetic personal brand?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just walk people through that journey and doing that.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody's quite different, so it's very bespoke.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: But people often just need a lot of accountability and support.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:13
  and guidance along the way and um i really enjoy that
• 19:17
  one-to-one kind of process so
• 19:18
  yeah um so that's that's one income stream and that's going to
• 19:22
  probably be a bigger
• 19:23
  one as time goes on um the second one excuse me is uh is
• 19:27
  obviously throughSubstack
• 19:28
  through paid my my paid community and my vip membership and
• 19:33
  that sort of thing so
• 19:34
  i'll i'll always promote my paid tier i'll always create paid
• 19:37
  content and i'm going
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: to do a
• 19:41
  more paid content next year and i'll periodically run offers as
• 19:45
  well for my paid
• 19:46
  tier as well so um that's that's a major one obviously in terms
• 19:49
  ofSubstack and i
• 19:51
  try to supplement that with uh sponsorship whenever i can so
• 19:54
  excuse me my voice is
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: going already um
• 19:57
  So with brands or other creators who want to advertise with me
• 20:01
  through my articles
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: or my podcasts,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: that sort of thing,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always open to that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll sort of, again, do more with that probably next year.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's things like digital products.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a few courses of varying sizes and scope that people can buy,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: and they can get those through automations and things like that too.
• 20:18
  So there's a lot of things going on at once,
• 20:19
  and that's just the writing side of things.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have my other business as well that also generates income.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously book sales as well.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of different things happening in conjunction.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: What is the biggest chunk?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: What is your biggest chunk of income coming?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it probably actually comes from my other business,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: which is more like a marketing kind of platform.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's taken me years to build it up.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I have like a nice sort of very passive process for it.
• 20:53
  But in terms of writing,
• 20:55
  the biggest chunk probably still comes from a combination of my
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: paid tier kind of act as like boosters every so often.
• 21:03
  So I'll run a discount on my paid tier or I'll give away like a
• 21:07
  bundle of different things.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they're kind of like bigger boosters.
• 21:10
  But as I said,
• 21:11
  I think coaching is going to be kind of like my bigger ticket
• 21:14
  item.
• 21:15
  And I would imagine that that will become my biggest income
• 21:18
  stream probably sometime next year.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be well.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So speaking of next year,
• 21:25
  what are your plans or let's say goals for selling books or
• 21:33
  growing your business?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going to experiment with new stuff?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned coaching.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: What else do you want to double down on and maybe get rid of?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like where are you headed?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one thing I want to do a lot more of next year is live stuff.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I plan to do
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: live webinars,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: just actual teaching sessions,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: sort of old school,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: PowerPoint kind of presentation,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Canva,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: walking people through a process for something.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Try and do those regularly,
• 22:09
  like maybe once a month and maybe alternate between free stuff
• 22:13
  and then maybe stuff
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: that's just for paid members to take part in,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: so like masterclasses and stuff.
• 22:18
  And so I want to do a lot more of that because I really like
• 22:20
  doing live live sessions.
• 22:22
  I love I love speaking to people one to one or in small groups,
• 22:26
  that sort of thing.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I may run a couple of boot camps potentially next year.
• 22:29
  I've never done that before by myself,
• 22:32
  but it's something I might try to see.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: see how it goes.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always interested in trying new things.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to do at least one book camp next year.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then in terms of books,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think I mentioned it earlier in the conversation,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I really want to experiment with paid ads for books as well.
• 22:48
  So I want to see if I can get a few paid campaigns going for my
• 22:53
  current books and
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: my future books as well,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: just to see how it goes,
• 22:56
  see if I can get like a kind of sustainable system working for
• 22:59
  that to kind of sell
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: books pass along.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: in the background.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So lots to do,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: and then that's obviously alongside,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to write at least one or two more books next year as well,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: along with finishing the one I'm currently writing,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: which is taking forever.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: What is the one that you're currently writing?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's my third horror novel.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I should have finished it in the summer,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: and it's almost the end of the year,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: and it's still got about another version.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: 20% to go.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a bit of a long process.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you write every day on your fiction?
• 23:39
  In theory,
• 23:39
  yes,
• 23:40
  I should write every day,
• 23:41
  and that's kind of what I used to do.
• 23:44
  I found that the last few months I've been waylaid by a few
• 23:49
  different things that
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: have been happening.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Personally,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just working,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: so it's kind of knocked my rhythm a little bit,
• 23:55
  but I'm trying to kind of work my way back into it again in
• 23:58
  order to finish the
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: book that I'm working on right now.
• 24:00
  Again,
• 24:01
  I'm trying lots of new stuff at the minute,
• 24:03
  introducing a lot of new things.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Even the space that I record,
• 24:09
  record these videos in,
• 24:10
  now is a different space and I've been setting that up too.
• 24:13
  So I think once all those kind of things settle down and they
• 24:16
  get into a better
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: pattern,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be able to get back into writing fiction every single day.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: All being well.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what is your secret to attracting such a huge following?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're very consistent and you work a lot,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: but how did you manage to amass over 30,000 followers?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I started following you,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: maybe you had 5,000 or something like this,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: and now you're at over 30,000 followers.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: What happened in a year?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: What did you eat?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just joking.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what happened in that you have this massive following?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do differently than maybe I said the year before?
• 25:11
  well I think you mentioned the word consistency before and I do
• 25:14
  think that's been a
• 25:15
  major part of it it's a bit of a buzzword it's a boring answer
• 25:18
  but I think it's
• 25:19
  something that 90% of creators won't do they won't stick at
• 25:22
  something for a very
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: long time okay
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: and push through those quieter, slower periods.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I just try to be on stack every single day,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: try to post in a really regular rhythm,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: try and post on YouTube,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: post on TikTok,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: keep going with my podcast episodes.
• 25:42
  And I honestly think that consistency has been just the slow
• 25:46
  but steady driver of growth.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's things like notes and recommendations.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: sub-stacks kind of inbuilt growth levers.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know we don't want to talk about those too much today,
• 25:59
  but that's the kind of stuff that has always worked for me and
• 26:01
  continues to work.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know that for some people it works better than it does for me.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's other people whose audiences are growing faster than mine,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: and that's totally cool.
• 26:12
  At the minute,
• 26:12
  I'm kind of more focused on growing my audience in terms of
• 26:14
  depth.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I've already got a good-sized audience, and I really want to
• 26:18
  just go deeper with them and see if I can find more ways to
• 26:22
  serve them in a more tangible way.
• 26:25
  But consistency is the boring answer,
• 26:27
  but it's probably the most correct answer,
• 26:28
  I think.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned YouTube,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: and I went to YouTube the other day,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: and you have like thousands of followers.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are you monetized yet?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working towards it.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So again,
• 26:44
  just the slow but steady kind of upward line on that and
• 26:49
  working towards trying to
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: get enough.
• 26:51
  But I know that even if I am monetized,
• 26:52
  it probably won't produce an awful lot of income.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's TikTok's kind of,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: or YouTube,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: sorry,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: is kind of in decline in that regard,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: from what I've heard from other creators on the platform.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not overly worried if I don't get monetized on it,
• 27:07
  but I'm really just sharing the stuff that I'm sharing on
• 27:12
  Substack onto there
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: anyway at the minute,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: like sharing my podcast episodes,
• 27:16
  like the video versions and stuff like that on Substack Lives I
• 27:19
  just put onto
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I might spend more time on YouTube next year.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I might start to think more in depth about it,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: like how to put videos together that are more searchable potentially.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know other people here on Substack
• 27:32
  do a great job with YouTube and they make amazing YouTube
• 27:34
  content and you're
• 27:37
  probably seeing a lot more success than me because of that
• 27:41
  because I spend more
• 27:41
  time on it so I might do more with that next year but it's just
• 27:45
  going to be whether
• 27:45
  I have time and at the minute what I'm doing is kind of at
• 27:48
  maximum capacity so
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: we'll see what happens.
• 27:51
  So you're basically taking your live stuff and your podcast and
• 27:57
  just repackaging
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: them and putting them on YouTube.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is there like a funnel going from YouTube to Substack?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: For your YouTube channel and then from there go to your Substack?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: How is it going in terms of that?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm actually doing at the minute is...
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm funneling people from,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: theoretically anyway,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm funneling them from YouTube into a kit list,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: like a convert kit list that I have,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: which has an automation,
• 28:33
  like a welcome sequence that takes people through welcoming me
• 28:36
  or welcoming them
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: into my sphere and introduce them to what I do and things like that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then from that,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: they can choose to subscribe on Substack if they want to,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: or they can stay on that list.
• 28:49
  list and they'll always receive like a weekly email obviously
• 28:53
  they can go directly
• 28:54
  from youtube to substack as well there's always a link to go
• 28:57
  directly there too but
• 28:58
  um in terms of like offering like a lead magnet or like an
• 29:00
  incentive um i'm sending
• 29:02
  them to uh to this kit automation instead first because
• 29:05
  obviously substack doesn't
• 29:07
  really give us um an automation feature at this point apart
• 29:11
  from the welcome email
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: so um
• 29:14
  Until Substack maybe changes that process and makes it slightly
• 29:18
  more email-friendly
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: in that regard,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: then I'll keep using Kit alongside it,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: as well.
• 29:24
  Do you think if Substack starts doing the automation,
• 29:28
  then it's going to be a major blow to Kit?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So people will just drop Kit and go completely with...
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: with Substack?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I use Kit, but mostly for this automation stuff.
• 29:41
  But do you think eventually it would be worth it to keep paying
• 29:45
  for Kit or no?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: they've just recently increased their fees,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: so I had to really ask that question myself.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if Substack does introduce a few more features like that,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: it would be very difficult to cover
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: carry on with other external platforms, I think, as well.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: for instance,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: what we're doing right now,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: where we're doing a live,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm able to do it through my computer now instead of on my phone.
• 30:18
  I think if Substack developed that a little bit more and had a
• 30:20
  landscape version of
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: this instead of the portrait phone version,
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: which people can see right now,
• 30:25
  I think that will be huge in terms of maybe being able to
• 30:28
  facilitate webinar
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: sessions and things like that through Substack.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that will be a real game changer as well.
• 30:34
  Maybe they don't have the capacity for that just yet because
• 30:36
  that will be a lot of
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: computation,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's two or three things that if Substack was able to add,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it would make it really all encompass.
• 30:51
  everything up and but maybe they don't want to do that maybe
• 30:52
  they want to keep it
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: keep the waiters
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: because if Substack develops their community aspect more,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: people might get rid of Circle and just go all in on Substack.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the same with Kit and the same with a number of tools.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: For example, like hosting your podcast.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I still use an external host, which is Buzzsprout for my other podcast.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then I have the Substack podcast.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: which this is part of, is hosted on Substack.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually, how long can I justify paying for an external host, right?
• 31:31
  But recently,
• 31:32
  actually,
• 31:32
  they gave me a free ticket to go to PodFest in Florida.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something.
• 31:37
  So I'm going to Florida to their conference,
• 31:41
  one of the biggest podcasting conferences.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: those as the things is because we're always bootstrapping,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: as solopreneurs,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: and we have to,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: watch every penny at this point.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so who are...
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: the biggest,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 32:04
  or let's say the people or subs like that inspire you that
• 32:09
  you've tried to follow
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: in their footsteps.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like for example, for me, I always watch what you do.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're one of my biggest inspiration.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're like Veronica and Ferry and Maya.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: These are the people that I always follow.
• 32:27
  um and you who do you like to follow and for what aspect of
• 32:32
  your business like for
• 32:33
  book selling for uh personal planning so if you can just drop
• 32:37
  in some names that
• 32:38
  would be fun so you see like who's the person that you're
• 32:42
  always happy to see in
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: your inbox or you see their notes or um i'm just curious to hear
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 32:53
  it's hard to narrow down because all the guys you mentioned are
• 32:55
  people I really
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: love as well.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love their stuff.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you as well, of course, Natasha.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it is hard to know specifically.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 33:06
  Philip and Sinem and Yari from Right Build Scale have done a
• 33:09
  lot of stuff with
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: them.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I love what they do.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they have a really, really in-depth process.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got to meet them in real life, which is really nice as well.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually talked to them about it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really cool.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: and yeah,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: but there's,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: there's a,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: there's a ton of people like,
• 33:24
  uh,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: recently been speaking,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: to Teal and Simmons a few times and he's,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: he's a great guy.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love what he does.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: as well,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: and he's kind of coming from externally into Substack now,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: and he's got these different perspectives on it,
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: so it's really cool hearing the way he thinks about it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love what Derek Hughes does.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a really good process for things.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who else?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many people.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's other big creators as well who've come,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: from externally,
• 33:51
  like Justin Welsh and Jay Klaus and Erica Schneider and those
• 33:54
  kind of people who
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: have done an amazing job outside of Substack,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: and they're now bringing their expertise to the platform.
• 34:03
  as well so that's really exciting to see um but yeah but
• 34:07
  there's there's so many
• 34:08
  people though i just um i'm always just interested in how
• 34:12
  people do things and like
• 34:13
  anna kaelin's another good example and people who experiment a
• 34:16
  lot and they're
• 34:17
  always kind of just seeing what works and what doesn't work and
• 34:20
  be very open about
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: what works and what doesn't work which i think is really important to
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: about your wins and the things that haven't worked for you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it changes all the time.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's what's great with Substack.
• 34:32
  We're such a great community and everyone's very open and no
• 34:35
  one's really trying to
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: like climb over anybody else to get to the top.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that about it.
• 34:40
  What about someone who's an independent author or
• 34:44
  self-published author that's been
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: selling a lot of books and doing really well?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Someone that you follow what they do and you try to imitate them?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's actually a good question because I don't know.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly,
• 35:05
  there aren't many people that come to mind when I think about
• 35:07
  people who sell books
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: through Substack.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know that obviously like Russell, no healthy will sell books.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: He sells books through things.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: He does a lot of Kickstarter stuff, and Substack's linked to that.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Simon Jones, I think, he does a lot of fiction stuff.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: He writes directly on Substack, which is really good.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: He serializes his books on the platform itself.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, it's a good question.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think we as authors can do more with Substack to sell our books,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: and I should definitely do more with it as well.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 35:41
  it'll be interesting to see the next few weeks and months what
• 35:45
  we'll be able to do
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: with it.
• 35:46
  Let's co-write a Substack post,
• 35:49
  you and me,
• 35:49
  called How to Sell Books on Substack.
• 35:52
  And I think that because the topic of selling books on Substack
• 35:57
  has not been,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know Fleur and Christina,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: they started the...
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Christina?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:10
  yeah they started their shop for independent authors uh that i
• 36:15
  thought that was a
• 36:16
  good initiative but i'm thinking more of kind of the tactics
• 36:21
  like you know the the
• 36:22
  one to do like for you if like get practical i see you always
• 36:27
  like plug plug your
• 36:29
  book in the midst of like a post about something else like it
• 36:33
  will pop up you
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: mention it like these are kind of the steps you're like if
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: You carry a copy of your book before the live.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: You put it in the middle of your post.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: You have it.
• 36:47
  Another way I've been thinking about,
• 36:49
  which is I give away a free short story through Gumroad.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then Gumroad puts them in a workflow that takes them to my books.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, did you enjoy the short story?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another kind of experimentation that I've...
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing on the side.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I plug that link to Gumroad Free Short Story in my Substack post.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: But these are some of the ideas.
• 37:14
  But I think we can really dig deep into ways how you can
• 37:20
  actually use the platform
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: itself to send books.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: But something... Let's do it.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's work on it.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I know we have a few minutes left.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have another meeting.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think the last thing I want to ask is about your...
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sponsorship.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned sponsorship.
• 37:45
  And I noticed,
• 37:46
  I think you're the only one that I see that have sponsors in
• 37:49
  the newsletter.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get these sponsors and how is that going?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't done an awful lot with it the last maybe six months.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I did more last year and started this year,
• 38:04
  but I literally just reached out to those sponsors on their
• 38:08
  websites or on
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: that sort of thing,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: and just sent them an email and just pitched it and said,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have this audience.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'd be a good fit in terms of your brand.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Would you be interested in that?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: one of these packages that I've offered or whatever.
• 38:24
  And again,
• 38:25
  most won't come back to you,
• 38:26
  but some will and some will be interested in doing it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've also used a platform called Passion Fruit,
• 38:31
  which is really good for just having a kind of landing page
• 38:35
  with your package
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: offers on it.
• 38:38
  So I've used that at times in the past and have got sponsors
• 38:40
  through that as well.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 38:42
  I think it's really about just trying to think of sponsors that
• 38:45
  match with your
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: audience,
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: that your audience are going to like and find useful.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And especially if it's something that you've used yourself extensively,
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: then that's kind of the perfect sponsor.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me...
• 38:59
  I'm most eager to find sponsors for my podcast because I love
• 39:02
  to monetize that more
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: and just do more with it if I can.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then it obviously feeds into YouTube and all as well.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a good opportunity.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if you have a sponsor that you like,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: if there's a brand that you like,
• 39:13
  the best thing is just to send an email or message and just
• 39:15
  tell them that you love
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: them,
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: tell them why,
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: and just offer them something.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: If they're interested, then great.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, that's okay.
• 39:23
  I'm actually going to be speaking to kind of the expert in this
• 39:26
  kind of stuff.
• 39:27
  Yeah,
• 39:27
  I'm going to be speaking to the expert in this stuff,
• 39:29
  Justin Murr in January.
• 39:32
  So he really is kind of a guy who knows how to get sponsors and
• 39:35
  he's going to be on my podcast.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to ask him a lot of questions and see what he says.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Justin Murr.
• 39:40
  ah i don't know uh okay so you mentioned uh so you mentioned
• 39:46
  you're getting a
• 39:48
  podcast so like i had my podcast for over three years and i ah
• 39:53
  justin moore i think
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: yeah i think um i've seen him around um
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never got a single sponsor.
• 40:02
  And so I think because that's my arrogance,
• 40:06
  I'm waiting for the sponsors to come to me.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm playing hard to get.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what are you...
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what are you saying is that you actually reach out to a brand.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say you like,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: my podcast is about interview with authors,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: read around Natasha.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So like I would go to someone like, I don't know, book of the month.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm too small for them.
• 40:32
  But like,
• 40:32
  let's say,
• 40:33
  for a sake of example,
• 40:34
  and they say,
• 40:35
  hey,
• 40:35
  would you like to come?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then usually they would respond or say,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned passion fruit.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you use the passion fruit package you have to reach out to sponsors.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, you're actually reaching out.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you're doing a lot.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're reaching out to sponsors.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're writing books.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're going live.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're writing podcasts.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is like a lot of work.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nonstop.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to find ways to do it in a more manageable way.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the constant battle, I think.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a VA?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 41:17
  So you're actually editing your own podcast yourself,
• 41:19
  adding the music and all that?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I outsource the editing.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just can't spend two hours per episode editing.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I can't.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is it.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: I pay someone to do that for me.
• 41:33
  I mean,
• 41:33
  that's the only VA that I have,
• 41:36
  which is just editing the podcast at this point.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I did have someone...
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: I did have someone to edit podcast episodes,
• 41:45
  but then I found out that they were just kind of putting it
• 41:49
  through like an AI
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: filter,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: and then it was kind of producing kind of clunky,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: like a clunky listening experience.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: So then I just started doing it myself.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: But my editing is like so minimal.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: It literally is just like a bit at the start,
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: a bit at the end,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: just fix a few mistakes along the way,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: and that's it.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't take very long to do it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much, David.
• 42:10
  I know you have to go now,
• 42:12
  but this has been amazing,
• 42:13
  as always,
• 42:14
  filled with many tips.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And let's talk about writing.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: You joined Substack Post about how to sell books on Substack.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: But this is...
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Really amazing.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for everyone who joined us today.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see any questions, but we had like almost 60 people joined.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, they're all showing up for you, David.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: No one's showing up for me.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be shy.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here for you.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you very much for your time and happy holidays.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I will see you on Substack.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Tasha.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Really delighted to be here.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, thank you so much for your time.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: Bye-bye.