Latest / Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing / #41| How to Stop Overwhelm and People Pleasing by Creating Your Own Rules

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#41| How to Stop Overwhelm and People Pleasing by Creating Your Own Rules · Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing

• 0:04
  Michelle: Hey, I'm Michelle Gauthier and you're listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast.
• 0:09
  Michelle: Thanks for joining Overwhelmed Working Woman.
• 0:13
  Michelle: This week we have a guest expert and our guest is Lindsay Dotzlaf.
• 0:18
  Michelle: She used to be my coach and I asked her to be on the podcast because she taught me some very important things, many of them just by being herself.
• 0:26
  Michelle: She was always so intentional and calm and she's extremely successful.
• 0:32
  Michelle: I feel like there's so much out there today, lots of hustling and doing as much as possible as quickly as you can do it.
• 0:39
  Michelle: Lindsay just does not take that approach and I admire that and I love that.
• 0:43
  Michelle: I actually don't know very much at all about her family life or how she balances that and manages to pull off not being an overwhelmed working woman, or at least appearing so.
• 0:54
  Michelle: You can tell me, Lindsay, maybe that's not true! Thanks for being with us today.
• 0:59
  Michelle: Say hi, tell us a little bit about yourself and your business and your family.
• 1:04
  Lindsay: Hi, I'm so happy to be here and it's so funny you said that, because when I read the email you sent me I was like how does she actually know?
• 1:09
  Lindsay: What if I get on here and I'm like, "my life is a mess!"?
• 1:11
  Lindsay: It just made me laugh.
• 1:14
  Michelle: I just can't imagine it.
• 1:16
  Michelle: You have such a calm demeanor.
• 1:18
  Michelle: You're either an amazing actress or it's true.
• 1:23
  Lindsay: It is mostly true.
• 1:23
  Lindsay: I think that you're on the right path, but I'm so glad to be here.
• 1:26
  Lindsay: Thank you for asking me.
• 1:27
  Lindsay: My name is Lindsay Dotzlaf.
• 1:29
  Lindsay: I am a coach.
• 1:30
  Lindsay: I teach coaching skills.
• 1:32
  Lindsay: I help coaches be amazing at what they do and build businesses that they just really feel settled in.
• 1:40
  Lindsay: A lot of what you see for me is so much of what I just help teach my clients when it comes to structuring their businesses and just knowing how to coach in a way that just feels great to them.
• 1:53
  Michelle: Awesome.
• 1:53
  Michelle: Good.
• 1:53
  Michelle: And family- wise you have two kids, correct?
• 1:57
  Lindsay: Yep, I'm married.
• 1:58
  Lindsay: I have two kids.
• 1:59
  Lindsay: I've been married for almost 18 years, I think?
• 2:03
  Lindsay: That's a really long time.
• 2:04
  Lindsay: I have two kids, two girls.
• 2:05
  Lindsay: They are 11 and 13.
• 2:09
  Michelle: Okay, perfect.
• 2:09
  Michelle: I have a 13-year-old girl too, so I know that.
• 2:12
  Michelle: I know how that feels for sure.
• 2:14
  Lindsay: The 13-year-old is like pretty great.
• 2:16
  Lindsay: The 11-year-old, she's the sassy one.
• 2:19
  Michelle: That's funny because my 16-year-old's an older one, so the 13-year-old's the sassy one.
• 2:22
  Michelle: I feel like the second one is usually the sassy one.
• 2:25
  Michelle: For sure, yes, and I'm the oldest.
• 2:27
  Michelle: Are you the oldest?
• 2:28
  Michelle: Yes, of course.
• 2:29
  Michelle: Yeah, I feel like we have the oldest child personality.
• 2:33
  Michelle: We do, yes, for sure.
• 2:34
  Michelle: Okay, so first of all, tell us a little bit about your business and I'm looking at it from the spin of how you run your business, from a place of calm and intention, like I said in the intro.
• 2:47
  Michelle: That always impressed me about you, and when I would come to you with questions and be sort of frantic about I need to do this, by this time, you would always help me slow down and really think through it.
• 2:58
  Michelle: So can you tell us about your business and then also sort of the approach behind that?
• 3:02
  Lindsay: Yes, so I mean, first, I just want to be clear that sometimes I'm totally overwhelmed, right, and sometimes - like I don't think that there's any escape from just feeling that way sometimes.
• 3:13
  Lindsay: But I do know for myself, like when I got into coaching and when I started my business, before that I had worked with my own life coach for quite a while, and one of the reasons I did is because I was overwhelmed all the time and I was very, like, very opposite from what you see now, Although I may have appeared actually still pretty calm on the outside, but on the inside I was just losing my mind all the time, just overwhelmed with life in general, and so coaching like really helped me calm that down.
• 3:44
  Lindsay: So just a plug for coaching in general.
• 3:47
  Lindsay: I started my business - so I hired a coach in 2014, worked with her for about a year and a half before I started my business, and I have a background in psychology, so it's kind of like coaching was like a very natural next step.
• 4:03
  Lindsay: It felt like, oh my gosh, this is what I've been looking for for so long.
• 4:07
  Lindsay: And then I think, because of that, because I just refuse to kind of let myself go back to that place of being super overwhelmed and being - because I, you know, I love to be good at things, I love to be busy, and I used to let that drive, right?
• 4:22
  Lindsay: Like, just like busy all the time, like that's kind of where I would find my, I'm gonna say, like, "worth in quotes, like my worth as a human right, Just being extra busy, making sure everyone is taken care of, like doing things for everyone else.
• 4:34
  Lindsay: And I think one just thing that I learned along the way is I can't I can't say yes to everything, I can't do all the things for everyone else.
• 4:44
  Lindsay: And really, when I kind of pause and put myself first and like lead with that, before you know doing all the things, not that I don't still do the things, but just really being a lot more intentional.
• 4:58
  Lindsay: And then I think I brought that into my business as I was building it.
• 5:02
  Michelle: Okay, perfect.
• 5:03
  Michelle: I feel like I could have written out for you what would be the perfect thing to say to this audience.
• 5:09
  Michelle: I feel like you just covered all the stuff that we talk about.
• 5:12
  Michelle: Just that.
• 5:13
  Michelle: Perfect.
• 5:13
  Michelle: Overwhelmed, putting everybody else first.
• 5:15
  Michelle: When we're afraid to sit with our own thoughts, then just do something for everyone else.
• 5:20
  Michelle: Never think about yourself, all of that.
• 5:22
  Michelle: So it's good to know that you once were there, and I think the other important point you made is you're still totally overwhelmed sometimes.
• 5:29
  Michelle: So am I, so is everybody who's listening, and that's okay.
• 5:32
  Michelle: Our end goal isn't to never get there, but just how to know how to live our life intentionally from a place where we don't start off that way every day of our life, which I used to.
• 5:48
  Lindsay: And now I just notice, right?
• 5:48
  Lindsay: "Why is that?
• 5:49
  Lindsay: And I and I have the tools to question it, right, to see, to like pause and say why, instead of, this is just the truth of like, how, how you're supposed to feel, how you're supposed to live, like that's I feel like that's how I kind of used to think about it before c oaching, was like, yeah, this is normal, like every woman's overwhelmed, right?
• 6:12
  Michelle: Yeah, and I think that's true, but they don't have to be forever and always.
• 6:12
  Michelle: For sure.
• 6:12
  Michelle: Okay.
• 6:12
  Michelle: So how do you run your business?
• 6:14
  Michelle: What does it look like?
• 6:15
  Michelle: First of all, tell us about your business, brag a little, tell us how big and successful your business is, and then how you run that from that place of intentional calm.
• 6:26
  Lindsay: So I think actually, this answer will be really interesting, thinking about running a business with a lot of intentionality.
• 6:32
  Lindsay: So I am a coach, like I said, I have right now I have two things that I run.
• 6:38
  Lindsay: I have something called the Coach Lab which has - it's a program, it has hundreds of coaches in it.
• 6:43
  Lindsay: It's a lifetime access, so you just like join once and you're just there.
• 6:46
  Lindsay: So I have hundreds of clients in that program.
• 6:48
  Lindsay: And then I have an advanced certification which has, like, while recording this, maybe around 20, 15 to 20 people per round that I'm really helping on the more - in the more advanced level of coaching mastery.
• 7:02
  Lindsay: And one thing that happened this year is I tried to create a third offer.
• 7:07
  Lindsay: I did create a third offer and I sold it and I was totally overwhelmed.
• 7:12
  Lindsay: It was just like this is too much, I can't, because I love like if I'm going to do something again, I like to be very intentional about it.
• 7:19
  Lindsay: I like to make sure that I'm good at it and that the delivery like I always put my clients first, so I'm always thinking about like delivery first, and I felt that slipping and so I canceled an offer and I canceled the launch and I just kind of took a bunch of things off the plate because I started feeling that overwhelm and then seeing it affecting my clients and I just knew, like this is not, this isn't what I want, this isn't for me.
• 7:49
  Michelle: First of all, that's huge, that's amazing.
• 7:52
  Michelle: So I think a lot of people are afraid to leave money on the table.
• 7:55
  Michelle: So how did you get your mind to the place that you were willing to leave it behind?
• 8:00
  Lindsay: Yeah.
• 8:00
  Lindsay: So the simplest answer is when I always lead with my values.
• 8:04
  Lindsay: So this is actually something I teach in my certification, where we, like I, really help my clients define their values and their values in their business.
• 8:12
  Lindsay: And I think anytime you're leading through that and using that as the lens to make all your decisions, the answers become a lot more clear.
• 8:19
  Lindsay: Even when they feel hard.
• 8:20
  Lindsay: Right, and I knew because I've made quite a bit of money in my business and worked with a bookkeeper and people that helped me manage the money I knew like there's money here, it's gonna be fine, right?
• 8:31
  Lindsay: There's no, I had a business reserve.
• 8:33
  Lindsay: It wasn't like if I cancel this offer, oh no, where's the money gonna come from?
• 8:38
  Lindsay: Or like what am I gonna do?
• 8:40
  Lindsay: And, honestly, I took my brain to the place where I was like, in the long run, it kind of feels like it might be more detrimental to my business to launch this anyway, to do this thing anyway, and then not be able to deliver at the level that I like to or that my clients are used to getting from me.
• 8:59
  Lindsay: So, to answer one of the questions you asked earlier, when you're like brag about your business, I have made close to a million dollars.
• 9:06
  Lindsay: Just not myself personally, but my business has over the last couple of years.
• 9:10
  Lindsay: But this year I'll probably end closer to about 400,000.
• 9:14
  Lindsay: And I feel great about it.
• 9:17
  Lindsay: It's really interesting.
• 9:18
  Lindsay: It's like there were moments when I was like what am I doing?
• 9:21
  Lindsay: Oh no, this feels really bad.
• 9:24
  Lindsay: Am I ruining it all?
• 9:26
  Lindsay: And I'm kind of on the other side of it now and it's like that was the best decision I could have made to really make sure that my business stayed simple, which I think simplicity is one of the answers to all of this like, how do I do it all, how do I run a business without feeling constantly overwhelmed?
• 9:46
  Lindsay: I think simplicity is one of the main answers.
• 9:49
  Michelle: Yep, and it's simplicity in having two specific offers and then choosing to not have that third offer.
• 9:57
  Michelle: I think that's just amazing, because I think a lot of times when people come to work with me, they wanna be not overwhelmed, but when push comes to shove and you have to feel uncomfortable about turning away something, every time we're saying yes to something, we're saying no to something else.
• 10:11
  Michelle: So if you're gonna say no to that offer, you're gonna open up space to serve your clients better, et cetera, but you're also saying no to the potential of more money from that particular offer.
• 10:20
  Michelle: So I love that you chose being calm and not overwhelmed and being in line with your values over anything else.
• 10:27
  Michelle: That's awesome.
• 10:28
  Lindsay: Yeah, and I think maybe not everybody has the luxury of saying like, okay, well, I have the reserves, I can do this, if I don't make money for the next X amount of months, that'll be totally fine.
• 10:39
  Lindsay: But I still think that there is a middle ground there where it's like you can still say, okay, but what is the way that works for me?
• 10:46
  Lindsay: Like, how can this be simple?
• 10:48
  Lindsay: How much money do I actually need to bring in right now, which might be a very different answer than what was I thinking I was going to do, or what was like the big goal that I set right, which is a lot of - like, those are very different answers usually.
• 11:01
  Michelle: Yeah, and I think that's such a big example.
• 11:04
  Michelle: But there's so many day-to-day little trade-offs, like I'm gonna stop caring what other people think about me and I'm gonna start going home from work at five o'clock or whatever it is.
• 11:14
  Michelle: So yours is a really big example, and I'm sure you have lots of small ones too in your business, but that's great.
• 11:19
  Michelle: That's fantastic.
• 11:20
  Michelle: How many hours a week do you work?
• 11:26
  Lindsay: The simple answer to that is I don't know exactly how many hours, but on the day-to-day I work about, let's say, like 10 to four or five, depending on the day, but my brain is sometimes a little all over the place, so I don't - I'm not a person that has like a very strict schedule that I follow every single week, so some days I might start a little later, or even if I'm in the middle of something like work a little later, if that's possible, if my husband's home and he can be running the kids wherever they need to be and cooking and whatever.
• 12:04
  Michelle: Okay, okay, that's awesome and I think, too, it's important because a lot of times people think, in order to be not overwhelmed, I need to just do time blocking and work these specific hours and all that.
• 12:15
  Michelle: So I love that you have sort of a general schedule, but if you want to work less or more, whatever, you can allow yourself to do that.
• 12:23
  Michelle: And again, I'm sure there are people who are like, oh, I wish I had that option, but think, where do I have that option?
• 12:28
  Michelle: If it's not with your hours, what is something that you can have flexibility on or say no to, like, for example, letting your kid join three activities in one season?
• 12:37
  Lindsay: Oh, we have lots of rules about that.
• 12:39
  Lindsay: They can only do one thing.
• 12:40
  Lindsay: I mean we have made some exceptions where they overlap every once in a while, but it's like nope.
• 12:46
  Lindsay: One thing, that's it.
• 12:48
  Lindsay: Simplify right?
• 12:50
  Michelle: Yep, I just made an exception this fall and I was very sorry about it and I was like but now I have to see this out because I said, yes, I intentionally chose to break my own rules and I'm paying the price.
• 13:01
  Michelle: Yes, yes, okay, and so do you have help in your business and do you have help at home?
• 13:09
  Lindsay: I do have help in my business.
• 13:10
  Lindsay: I have several contractors like you know podcast editor, bookkeeper, those types of positions and then I do just this year, hired or this year it's been about a year, I think that I've hired her full-time.
• 13:22
  Lindsay: I have a full-time business manager, which I mean that is like amazing.
• 13:27
  Lindsay: She is my saving grace sometimes, like she is, but I did it myself until then and so I think it's totally doable without that.
• 13:37
  Lindsay: But yeah, when I hired her full-time, that felt like a huge lift for me.
• 13:43
  Lindsay: It was amazing.
• 13:44
  Michelle: Yeah, did you have any thoughts about giving away some of your work to someone else?
• 13:50
  Lindsay: It was awful, awful, until she just kept convincing me like no, no, this is - I'm actually really good at this.
• 13:56
  Michelle: You're paying me, let me do it.
• 13:58
  Lindsay: And I hired someone specifically who, that is her job, she loves her job, she's excellent at her job.
• 14:04
  Lindsay: She's kind of like an operations person in my business, so she does all the details, all the things that I would for sure forget or let slip through the cracks, or she kind of like keeps me on task.
• 14:18
  Lindsay: But yeah, it was really hard in the beginning.
• 14:20
  Lindsay: For sure, she had to just pry things away.
• 14:23
  Lindsay: Now I don't know what I would do without her.
• 14:25
  Lindsay: Do you have help at home too?
• 14:28
  Lindsay: So I don't, I mean I do, my husband, but I'm like that, he's not helping, that's just a part of his job what he signed up for right.
• 14:37
  Lindsay: But we are pretty fortunate that since so, he works for a hospital and he's in tech, but since 2020, they moved his job to be more remote, so he is home a lot.
• 14:50
  Lindsay: Not that he -like when he's working he's pretty checked out and whatever, but he's here if I'm like, hey, I need you to take them to soccer or to take Harper to h orse lessons or whatever, and he's really good at that kind of thing and he's an excellent cook and he does most of the cooking.
• 15:08
  Michelle: That's amazing, oh my god.
• 15:10
  Michelle: Sometimes I hesitate to say that because I know people are like, "I had that in my life.
• 15:14
  Michelle: That's why she's making a million dollars a year because her husband cooks dinner every night.
• 15:19
  Lindsay: But, to be fair, we also have just come up with a little bit of a workaround for that, because he does work a lot.
• 15:27
  Lindsay: Like he probably should work with you.
• 15:28
  Lindsay: He's not a mom, but he needs, I mean, he's overwhelmed all the time.
• 15:32
  Lindsay: He works insane hours and doesn't know how to not do that, and so even when he's driving them to lessons or whatever, sometimes he'll be on the speaker in the car doing a meeting or I'm like what is happening.
• 15:48
  Lindsay: But it's fine, he gets to choose.
• 15:50
  Lindsay: These are his decisions.
• 15:52
  Lindsay: Yeah, I used to do that too.
• 15:54
  Lindsay: Yeah, but we've come up with a kind of a plan where it's like he cooks on Sunday, then we have leftovers for one or two nights.
• 16:01
  Lindsay: The girls are old enough that they also make their own dinner once or twice a week usually, and they have options.
• 16:09
  Lindsay: They have things that they know how to make and it's just like their go-tos and that's what they do.
• 16:13
  Lindsay: And then I just have to ignore the mess.
• 16:16
  Lindsay: They make the giant, giant mess, and then maybe he'll cook another night like grill a bunch of chicken, and then we have that to do a few things with.
• 16:25
  Lindsay: So even that, it's like we're pretty strategic about it.
• 16:28
  Lindsay: It's not like he's just off at 4 and cooking a big meal every night.
• 16:34
  Michelle: Yeah, that sounds lovely.
• 16:35
  Michelle: Both of those versions sound lovely.
• 16:37
  Michelle: Both sound great.
• 16:39
  Michelle: Oh my gosh.
• 16:40
  Michelle: Yes, my 13-year-old loves to cook and she's actually good at it, but the mess is something.
• 16:47
  Lindsay: We have the same kids.
• 16:48
  Lindsay: Yeah, my 11-year-old is, she'll just get in there and sometimes I hear that I'm like what is happening?
• 16:54
  Lindsay: I go there, she's like chopping things.
• 16:56
  Lindsay: I'm like, oh no, OK, please be careful, Don't cut off a finger.
• 17:00
  Lindsay: We definitely don't have time for that right now.
• 17:02
  Michelle: Yes, I have to tell other people who come to our house like she uses that knife all the time, like a chef's knife.
• 17:07
  Michelle: She chops stuff up, yeah, but she knows what she's doing.
• 17:11
  Michelle: I wish she would cook every night.
• 17:13
  Michelle: Maybe we'll get there.
• 17:13
  Michelle: I'd be happy to do the dishes.
• 17:16
  Lindsay: I know I actually told my husband we have these cooking lessons by us and they have kids classes and that might be an exception I would make for the two activities, like the one versus two.
• 17:29
  Michelle: Yeah, yeah, if that was one of them.
• 17:30
  Michelle: Mine's taking home ec at school right now and they're cooking cookies from a package mix and she's like what the heck mom?
• 17:40
  Michelle: I know, Josie, you could probably teach that class if you needed to.
• 17:43
  Lindsay: Yes, that's all my daughters.
• 17:46
  Michelle: Maybe that's the benefit of not doing everything for them.
• 17:53
  Lindsay: Yeah, my older daughter, she's like learned to cook eggs, that's about it.
• 17:57
  Lindsay: But she is really good at cooking eggs, so she'll cook herself like egg sandwiches.
• 18:01
  Lindsay: I mean, it's like all versions of eggs.
• 18:04
  Lindsay: I'm like, fine, go for it.
• 18:05
  Lindsay: I mean, could be way worse.
• 18:07
  Lindsay: Yeah, eat some eggs.
• 18:09
  Michelle: Exactly.
• 18:09
  Michelle: Another question I wanted to ask you about your business is if you ever feel caught up, and because we're both coaches I don't know about you, but my feed is full of other coaches and I see other coaches' businesses all the time.
• 18:23
  Michelle: So how do you sort of stay in your own lane and not get caught up with what other people are doing?
• 18:30
  Lindsay: That's a really good question.
• 18:31
  Lindsay: I think I'm just going to be really honest and say first, I just don't tend to be a person who sees what other people are doing and compare myself to it, like if I know, or maybe I'm in a business mastermind or spaces where I know other people are making more money than me or whatever I always just feel so inspired by that.
• 18:55
  Lindsay: It's very rare that I feel like that, I'm comparing myself that way, but what I get caught up in instead is that I've had to just kind of shut down, is regulating the industry more, like those types of thoughts.
• 19:09
  Lindsay: Because of what I do, because I teach coaching, because I think being an excellent coach is really important, I get really caught up in the people posting about coaching, if that makes sense, because there are times that I'm like that's wrong, like that's not even true or this is ridiculous or those kinds of things.
• 19:28
  Lindsay: So that's the part that drags me in more and I think again it comes back to being very intentional when I notice myself being maybe on social media more and just scrolling just to scroll, for no other reason.
• 19:42
  Lindsay: I just kind of put some boundaries around it.
• 19:45
  Lindsay: First of all, all notifications are turned off on my phone always, so I'm never seeing the like oh, you have one Facebook notification or whatever.
• 19:54
  Lindsay: Like that's just not a thing because they're off.
• 19:56
  Lindsay: Then when I do find myself getting pulled more in that direction, it's usually because I'm feeling somehow like more uncomfortable in my business.
• 20:05
  Lindsay: So I'm starting to like pay more attention to what's going on outside of my business.
• 20:10
  Lindsay: So it's just always a gentle reminder of like oh, let's just refocus, let's like bring back the attention to what it needs to be on, because overall, like the net gain of this is like negative.
• 20:23
  Lindsay: Yeah, of the comparing and the scrolling and the judging or like whatever else I would be doing when I'm in that space.
• 20:33
  Michelle: Yes, absolutely.
• 20:35
  Michelle: I find myself doing that, not with business, but when I see people who have families of four or five or whatever, where the dad is in all the pictures and doing things and like helping the kids with stuff, and I will do the compare and despair, like, oh, that's the kind of family I wanted to have and I'm sad that I don't have that and there's nothing good to come from that, and I feel like I just same like you're talking about.
• 21:00
  Michelle: I just have to get intentional and be like why am I looking at this?
• 21:03
  Michelle: Like, what am I hoping to do for myself here?
• 21:06
  Lindsay: Yeah, one thing that used to get me that might be really useful for your listeners is especially when I had a newer business, before I was making much money, I would see photos of maybe like a stay at home parent on a field trip or like those types of things and I would think, well, okay, I'm not making that much money in my business right now and I could do all of that.
• 21:32
  Lindsay: I could go on the field trips and I could be the room mom and I could XYZ, whatever, like all of those things.
• 21:41
  Lindsay: And I just really had to create boundaries for myself of like, first do I want to do those things?
• 21:47
  Lindsay: Like what?
• 21:48
  Lindsay: And if I do, which of those things do I want to do?
• 21:52
  Lindsay: So I would make rules like okay, I actually love going on field trips, so that's like the only time I volunteer at my kids schools, because it's being around their friends, it's being around them.
• 22:03
  Lindsay: It's not like going and making copies in the office or like whatever other jobs the teachers need done.
• 22:10
  Lindsay: And so I just thought like and it had to be on Fridays, like there were just things that it was like this is what I do, everything outside of this of course, there are always exceptions, right, but, like for the most part, it just made it a lot easier to say, oh no, I can't do that, it's on a Tuesday.
• 22:27
  Lindsay: Yeah, it just made a very - it just like took so much time out of my day even thinking about it or comparing myself to the people that were doing it or whatever.
• 22:38
  Michelle: Yeah, I think that's awesome.
• 22:39
  Michelle: That's such a great example and we talk about that a lot which is just anywhere where you don't have to decide because you've already decided and you could always go against your own rule, but you're doing it intentionally and that's totally different.
• 22:51
  Michelle: Just like I was talking about at the beginning of doing several sports this season.
• 22:55
  Michelle: I went against my own rule and I chose to do it.
• 22:58
  Michelle: It wasn't like, well, I don't know what happened.
• 23:00
  Michelle: She just made me sign her up for all this stuff.
• 23:02
  Michelle: I chose to do it.
• 23:03
  Michelle: I realized that wasn't good.
• 23:05
  Michelle: Now I'm going to have a more stringent version of that rule for next fall, so we don't end up in that situation.
• 23:11
  Michelle: So that is a great example.
• 23:13
  Lindsay: Yeah, I think that's the answer.
• 23:14
  Lindsay: Just so much of it right.
• 23:15
  Lindsay: It's just like making the decisions ahead of time so that when it comes time to actually decide on a case by case basis, it's just a really clear answer and if you want to go against your decision, you're just aware that you're doing it right.
• 23:31
  Lindsay: There's just so much more intentionality around all of it, versus just like I don't know what happened, like they're just in ten sports, I don't know.
• 23:39
  Michelle: And if you think about how much time in your brain - if every situation is a new decision versus, like, for example, something I don't do is I just do not go out during the week, I just don't.
• 23:50
  Michelle: I mean, I'll take my kids to wherever they have to go, but I don't like go out and do things.
• 23:54
  Michelle: I don't enjoy it.
• 23:55
  Michelle: I don't like leaving my kids at home.
• 23:57
  Michelle: You know that whole thing.
• 23:58
  Michelle: But this week on Monday I went to a birthday party of a high school friend and I was like, oh, it's on a Monday and it's daylight savings, where it's dark at like 4 pm in the Midwest, but I really want to go, so I'm going to go.
• 24:09
  Michelle: And when I went, when I was driving there, I was like I can't believe I'm going somewhere at this.
• 24:12
  Michelle: It was like six o'clock.
• 24:14
  Lindsay: I can't believe I'm going somewhere.
• 24:15
  Lindsay: Oh, I'm the same.
• 24:16
  Michelle: Yeah, I want to be in my pajamas.
• 24:18
  Lindsay: It is bedtime.
• 24:18
  Lindsay: What is happening?
• 24:20
  Lindsay: Oh no, it's six, Okay.
• 24:21
  Lindsay: Well, it feels like bedtime though.
• 24:23
  Michelle: Yeah, but it felt good, because I know my default answer is no usually on those kinds of things.
• 24:29
  Michelle: But in this case I really wanted to go and I went, and I was glad that I went and I came straight home and put on my pajamas and got in bed at like 8: 30 and everything was fine.
• 24:37
  Michelle: The world kept spinning.
• 24:39
  Lindsay: Yes, when I was working from home, I used to have like the most arbitrary rules, but they were for a very specific reason.
• 24:44
  Lindsay: So, for example, I wasn't allowed to like unload the dishwasher or do dishes or clean the kitchen or any version of that, between certain hours, between, like I don't know, 10 and four or whatever.
• 24:58
  Lindsay: Like whatever my work hours were.
• 24:59
  Lindsay: It was just like, even if I had, even if I was like I have an extra 20 minutes, it was just I wasn't allowed to do it because I would distract myself with those things all the time and I really had to show myself like no, like my husband's not at the office unloading dishes right now, right?
• 25:19
  Lindsay: Now, of course, now I do it every once in a while because I just it's like I learned the skill and then you can like loosen up a little bit.
• 25:26
  Michelle: Yeah, yeah, exactly, you can decide to do it, and I think too - in fact, my daughter was home sick yesterday and she's home sick today, but she was in my office.
• 25:34
  Michelle: I have like this little swing that I put in my office that hangs from the ceiling and I was like this is gonna be so fun and but my kids love to hang out in here.
• 25:42
  Michelle: I don't know what I was thinking with that.
• 25:43
  Lindsay: This is amazing, because I told you before we started that I'm about to redo an office and I've been looking at this chair that's like a swing and I keep wondering if that will just mean that my kids will only want to be in my office.
• 25:57
  Michelle: That is correct.
• 25:57
  Michelle: But I like it.
• 25:57
  Michelle: You know, sometimes I like their aroundness, just hanging around.
• 26:01
  Lindsay: Totally.
• 26:01
  Michelle: Sometimes I'll come home from somewhere and my son will be like sitting in my chair and yeah, I do like it.
• 26:06
  Michelle: But yesterday she was sitting in there and I said I really have to work.
• 26:09
  Michelle: I don't have clients, but I really have to work.
• 26:11
  Michelle: So you can sit in there and watch videos with your headphones on, you can be in here with me, but I can't talk.
• 26:15
  Michelle: And she would be like, "oh, mom, I thought she's 13.
• 26:19
  Michelle: I found a video of what I want my dorm room to look like when I go to college.
• 26:22
  Michelle: Can I show you?
• 26:23
  Michelle: And I'm like, hey, okay, then I'll get on to something else and then you know something else.
• 26:27
  Michelle: But every time you get interrupted, it's how long does it take you to get back into," Okay, what was I thinking about, what was I doing, what was I writing, whatever".
• 26:35
  Michelle: So I can see why making that no interruptions with the dishwasher rule could be something really important.
• 26:42
  Michelle: Yeah, okay, here's my last question for you, and I don't know if you have an answer for this right off the top of your head, but if someone just came to you and said I'm so overwhelmed, I'm a woman and I work, which is like every woman I know, and you know, probably.
• 26:56
  Michelle: What's like your number one piece of advice that you would give them?
• 27:02
  Lindsay: So I think I mean, of course this is such a coach answer, right, but because I'm a coach, I would just ask a question.
• 27:07
  Lindsay: My question would be what can we - like, what things are you doing that you don't actually want to do, or that you don't love to do, or that you know you feel like you're doing for reasons that aren't reasons that you love, or and not?
• 27:23
  Lindsay: We're not gonna necessarily cancel all of them, but let's just look at them and say, okay, here's a whole list of things you don't like to do.
• 27:31
  Lindsay: Which ones - like are there any that can just be that we just decide you're not doing that anymore?
• 27:35
  Lindsay: And then, are there any that are like can somebody help you with those?
• 27:40
  Lindsay: Can this be someone else's job?
• 27:42
  Lindsay: Can we pay someone?
• 27:43
  Lindsay: Can we ask a friend?
• 27:44
  Lindsay: Is there like a carpool, you know just, is there another solution?
• 27:48
  Lindsay: And then sometimes I even think the ones that we do love to do and that we want to keep on the list, I think just noticing that we choose them sometimes take some of the overwhelm out of it, because I think half of the overwhelm comes from the I should be doing this other thing, I should be doing this, like when you're in one activity and thinking about what you should be doing over here, over here, and so a lot of it is - like of course, a lot of us are just busy in general and have busy schedules, but to me, the actual feeling of overwhelm comes from that constant, like your brain being in another place when you're like, instead of just being present.
• 28:29
  Michelle: Yes, exactly, it's kind of fighting with itself.
• 28:31
  Michelle: It's like a 10-part answer.
• 28:32
  Michelle: I know as a coach we just can't give advice.
• 28:37
  Michelle: We have to ask a question.
• 28:38
  Michelle: I mean it's a question, but I think someone could do that themselves.
• 28:42
  Lindsay: You know, just like, look at your schedule.
• 28:43
  Lindsay: What are the things that you don't like?
• 28:45
  Lindsay: Just start there, what are the things that we can - like, can we start to whittle it down?
• 28:51
  Michelle: Yeah, I love that.
• 28:52
  Michelle: That's great, and I think the biggest message that I'm taking from this whole interview is that it's just about thinking about things ahead of time and deciding and intentionally following your own rules.
• 29:03
  Michelle: I hear that from you in your home and your business and your life overall.
• 29:09
  Lindsay: Yeah, and it certainly doesn't work perfectly right.
• 29:11
  Lindsay: Sometimes we get off track and we are not in my house.
• 29:14
  Lindsay: Then we're not very intentional.
• 29:16
  Lindsay: But I think when you do make the decisions ahead of time, you notice it quicker.
• 29:20
  Lindsay: Right, like, oh, this is like not what we decided we were gonna do, why is this happening?
• 29:25
  Lindsay: I think that's very different than it just kind of feeling like it's all outside of your control.
• 29:31
  Michelle: Yes, why am I talking about dorm decor to a seventh grader is a question, but then I don't feel bad
• 29:39
  Lindsay: I don't know.
• 29:40
  Michelle: Yes, I don't know.
• 29:40
  Michelle: I don't feel bad, just telling the truth and being like I'm glad you're here, I'm glad I get to stay home with you, like when I worked corporate, that would stress me out when my kids were sick.
• 29:48
  Michelle: I'm like you can totally be sick, you could be in here, but you literally cannot talk to me and I think a lot of people would feel bad about that.
• 29:54
  Michelle: But I don't feel bad about that.
• 29:55
  Michelle: Like that's the rule.
• 29:56
  Michelle: At five o'clock we'll watch Gilmore Girls or do one of our special things that we do together.
• 30:01
  Lindsay: Yes, oh, I'm like I can't wait to see that tonight.
• 30:04
  Lindsay: Oh my, my daughter's really into snakes and she's like look at this snake I found.
• 30:08
  Lindsay: No, no, I am working.
• 30:11
  Lindsay: First, we're not getting - we have one snake, so we're not getting more snakes, and I love that, you love that, and I can't wait to see it later, and right now it's just not the time.
• 30:23
  Lindsay: But thank you.
• 30:25
  Michelle: Is that your older one or your younger?
• 30:26
  Lindsay: Younger.
• 30:28
  Michelle: Okay, my older one loves lizards, snakes too, but lizards is the main thing.
• 30:32
  Lindsay: We have the same kids.
• 30:33
  Michelle: Yeah, I've seen a lot of lizard videos in my time.
• 30:35
  Michelle: Most of our communication right now is Mom, can I show you this video?
• 30:38
  Michelle: Mom, can I show you this cool video I found?
• 30:40
  Michelle: Yes, okay, all right.
• 30:42
  Michelle: Well, thank you so much.
• 30:43
  Michelle: It was so fun to have you on and I feel like I've never spent a ton of time with you, but just in the small amount of time I did spend with you when you were coaching me, you just give off this totally calm, intentional energy.
• 30:55
  Michelle: So when you were like, how does she know?
• 30:57
  Michelle: This is true, I guess I didn't, but you have proved it's true that you are living a calm and intentional life.
• 31:02
  Michelle: So thank you for sharing that with us and thank you for encouraging me, as a coach, that I could be like that.
• 31:10
  Michelle: You know, stay in my own lane, do the things the way that they felt good to me, instead of following that hustle culture that we see so much.
• 31:16
  Michelle: Of course, I'm so glad I could help.
• 31:18
  Michelle: Okay, so if people want to find out more about you and what you do, where should they go?
• 31:24
  Lindsay: So I keep things again just really simple.
• 31:26
  Lindsay: Everything is just my name, Lindsay Dotzlaf.
• 31:29
  Lindsay: So on Instagram I'm just @Lindsay Dotzlaf that's probably the place that it's like best to find me, and then I have a pretty popular podcast called Mastering Coaching Skills.
• 31:40
  Lindsay: Those are probably the two main places.
• 31:42
  Lindsay: And then I have a website, lindsaydotzlafcoaching.
• 31:43
  Lindsay: com, but Lindsay with an
• 31:46
  Michelle: Lindsay with a A.
• 31:46
  Michelle: That's what I always think about you saying when you're up on your podcast Lindsay Dotzlaf.
• 31:52
  Michelle: Lindsay with an A, I'll put it in the show.
• 31:56
  Michelle: D-o-t-z-l-a-f, l-a-f.
• 31:59
  Michelle: Yeah, exactly, I can spell your name from listening to your podcast, which is great, by the way.
• 32:03
  Michelle: It's a great podcast.
• 32:04
  Michelle: I love it, thank you.
• 32:05
  Michelle: Yes, your episode about how to start a podcast is really one of the main things that got me going on my podcast.
• 32:14
  Lindsay: I love that.
• 32:14
  Lindsay: Oh my gosh, that's so fun.
• 32:16
  Michelle: Yes, yes, you had this great approach.
• 32:18
  Michelle: I basically followed everything you said and here you are on my podcast, all right, thanks so much.
• 32:24
  Michelle: I appreciate it.
• 32:25
  Lindsay: Of course, thanks for having me.
• 32:41
  Michelle: Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast! If you want to learn more about my work, head over to my website at michellegauthier.
• 32:41
  Michelle: com.
• 32:41
  Michelle: See you next week.