Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / How to Prepare for the End of the Refi Boom with Ryan Grant

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How to Prepare for the End of the Refi Boom with Ryan Grant · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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1:03
Hey, listeners, what's up?
1:10
It's Jeff Zimfer.
1:11
Of course, but you knew that, didn't you?
1:13
Because you're tuning into the mortgage marketing radio podcast and I am so grateful
1:16
for that.
1:17
So welcome back.
1:18
If you're a longtime listener, I appreciate you.
1:20
And if you're a first time or newer listener, hey, let me know.
1:24
Reach out to me.
1:25
What do you like about the podcast?
1:26
Whether you want to leave a review, that would be great, wherever you're listening to
1:29
this, or just reach out to me directly, podcast at mortgagemarketingradio.com.
1:34
And I'd love to have a conversation with you, whoever you are, always open to hearing
1:38
your feedback and topics you'd love us to cover or, hey, just reach out and say hello.
1:43
You can also reach out to me on the Facebooks.
1:45
We have a private community for the podcast, a private Facebook group.
1:50
You can just go to Facebook and search mortgage marketing radio podcast and you'll find
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us in there.
1:54
And we're going to be increasing our engagement over there, more content sharing lives and
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good stuff coming to you, our podcast listeners.
2:02
So look forward to connecting with you there.
2:04
All right.
2:05
So let's transition.
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And this week, I wanted to bring back a special guest who I had on some time ago, who is
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always just incredibly impressed with in terms of what he's doing in the mortgage space.
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But also, who he is as a human being in the level to which he actually cares about serving
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the mortgage clients that he does.
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So here's the thing, Ryan Grant, right?
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Many of you have heard the name, know the name, one of America's top producers, multiple
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hundreds of millions in production per year.
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I've last I looked, it was well over $100 million.
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The important thing I wanted to talk about with Ryan today is it came to my attention that
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recently Ryan had landed Facebook as a corporate account, right?
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As a corporate affinity partner.
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Now Ryan had already had kind of an corporate affinity division with his team over in Orange
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County there.
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And but wound up doing a loan for a client who happened to be working at Facebook.
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And you're going to hear Ryan's story about how he landed that client, about how he was
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able to convert that transaction, if you will, that that sale, that process to a discussion
3:13
about his platform called the Art of Home Ownership, which led to Ryan becoming one of the preferred
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lenders for Facebook.
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And you'll hear all the great things he's been able to do with Facebook since that began
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and the other things that are happening.
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And the other thing I wanted to bring to your attention was the opportunity for you to
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learn more about Ryan's platform called the Art of Home Ownership.
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We have decided to partner up on a collaboration and let me just make it clear, like the Art
3:38
of Home Ownership, you're going to learn from Ryan what it is.
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Most importantly, I want to invite you to learn more.
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Is this isn't going to be right for everybody, right?
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And so there, if you wanted to learn more, there's links in the show notes or you can go
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to the website, go homeownership.com.
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That's a website just for my listeners here at the podcast and should you decide to move
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forward with it.
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Well, you're going to save some money on his setup fee, which is a pretty impressive platform.
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But again, really just what I want you to do is get educated on the Art of Home Ownership,
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the story behind it, decide after you hear this session, if you wanted to learn more
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and investigate it further, well, you're welcome to do that.
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And you go to that website.
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You'll have a conversation with Ryan's team.
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You guys will vet each other and see if it's the right fit for you or not.
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What I'm just trying to do to pass on to you is if it is a fit for you, then we're going
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to save you some money off of that sign up fee.
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So you can learn more about that by listening to this episode.
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And then once again, the website is go homeownership.com.
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And without further ado, let's get into this week's show, Ryan Grant.
4:41
Welcome to the show.
4:42
Hey, Jeff.
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Thanks for having me, man.
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Thanks for taking time from your busy schedule and what looks to be a little bit of mixing
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in a little bit of downtime for over the summer here as well, up there in Tau.
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Yeah.
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I wish there was a downtime.
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No downtime.
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I'm just working remotely from Tauho as opposed to working remotely from Orange County.
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Yeah.
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But you know, you can take that break and turn around and get that beautiful view.
5:03
Yeah.
5:04
Big deep breath.
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And then get back at it.
5:07
Right.
5:08
Right.
5:09
Awesome.
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We'll appreciate you making time.
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So listen, as you know, I invited you here or asked you to be here because I had heard this
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story about how you landed Facebook and became the preferred lender for Facebook.
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So that's the main thrust of the conversation that I want to have with you.
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So why don't we start there?
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How did that thing even come to play?
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How did you, you know, have a conversation with a, it was a client in Facebook you did
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alone for, right?
5:34
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So that's all of our corporate affinity partnerships start, you know, we typically don't
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just go directly to an HR because there's not a lot of success there.
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So, you know, we have a platform called the Art of Home Ownership, which we're a part
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of and essentially every single client gets, you know, seven different unique services
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for 30 plus years.
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And you know, so we all, we do, we do a post closing call and for anybody listening or
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watching this, I'm happy to give away our post closing call script.
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So if you're, you know, listeners will email you or contact you, however, we can give them
6:08
that post closing call script.
6:09
Okay.
6:10
I highly recommend doing this post closing calls every single time.
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So, you know, I spend about 20 to 30 minutes with each client after the transaction closes
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and I explain what our relationship is going to be like to them for the next 30 years of
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their life.
6:24
Right?
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And it's interesting because clients always say, well, why don't, why don't you have another
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conversation?
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That we were done.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, our team is, is scripted and instructed to say, you know, this is really
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so Ryan can go over all the next steps, what you can expect moving forward, making sure
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you understand everything's going to happen from here on out.
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So clients actually really appreciate it.
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And so, you know, we talk about first payment information and, you know, when they're going
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to move in so we can plan the closing gift and we talk about, you know, future real
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stakeholders and we ask about how we did and, you know, we get feedback, we ask for testimonials,
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we ask referrals, we do all that stuff.
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And then I say, you know, Jeff, what's really important is that if you ever had a mortgage
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before, you've probably never heard from your mortgage resonator, correct?
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And they go, yeah, we've never heard from them.
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And I say, well, it's unfortunate because, you know, right now you're just on a home.
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And if we never talk to you again, you'll probably just own a home, but we're really more
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interested in helping you become a very successful homeowner.
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And in order to do that, it's, we have a process that we take people through and you're
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now an art of home ownership member.
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I want to explain to you what that means and what you're going to get from us moving
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forward.
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So, first of all, this isn't a cost to anything, we're not selling you anything anymore
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here.
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There's no way for us to make any more money.
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We just, where most companies will spend all their marketing, trying to find new clients
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so they don't know, we take those same marketing dollars and we reinvest it into our client
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success.
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And we know if we make you more successful as a homeowner through the art of home
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ownership, that you'll always work with us, you'll refer us friends, family, co-workers,
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will retain your business forever.
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And the most importantly is that we'll actually make a difference in your life, we'll actually
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help you grow your wealth, save money, avoid bad decisions and plan for future real estate
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goals.
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And so, they go, wow, that sounds incredible, what does it you guys do?
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I say, so, you know, there's seven different unique services, I list those off.
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And in this particular case, I said, you know, and one of the things we like to do as
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well for this client who was buying a second home, she was, you lived up in the Bay Area
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buying a second home in Huntington Beach.
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I said, we always like to offer the art of home ownership platform to all of your co-workers
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as well.
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So, we would offer it to your employer and they would offer it as an employee benefit
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to all of your co-workers and it doesn't cost your employer anything and it doesn't
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cost your co-workers anything.
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And even better, no one's selling anything, right?
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We just, we know that your employee or your co-workers that you work with would actually
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become more successful and they're real estate of financial livelihood if they have the
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same services that you now have.
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And so, this client goes, you know, I've bought and sold plenty of homes and literally not
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not only are you guys a service grade, but no one's ever told me they would do anything
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for me after the fact, right?
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Realters have never told me they're going to do anything for me, lenders and other, they
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just kind of like good luck, right?
9:01
I hope you figure out your life.
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Yep.
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And I said, you know, and that's, unfortunately, common in an industry and I don't know
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why that happens, right?
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I don't know why we make the assumption that, you know, if Jeff, you're my client, I'm
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going to sell you a massive asset, which is really a liability if it's not a primary,
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if it's not an investment property.
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And then I actually give you a full liability, which is your mortgage.
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And my assumption is that you have all the answers moving forward, right?
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That you're just magically going to know what to do in every aspect of real estate or
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finance.
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When I know that 99% likely, no one's ever taught you about real estate or finance.
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And so she goes, yeah, I just happen to know the right person to connect you with because
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all we always ask, hey, who do you know at HR or a manager or someone we can talk to?
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And again, we're not selling anything, so you don't have to worry about, you know, we're
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not worried about that.
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Who can you connect with?
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She goes, you know, I happen to know the right person.
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So a week later, I had a blue jeans meeting schedule.
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That's their version of the Zoom, Facebook use that internally.
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And I was nervous.
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And I don't remember the last time I've been nervous before going into like a sales call,
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right?
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I feel like I have a pretty good mastery of my knowledge of why we're valuable and why
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somebody's worked with us.
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But this is a 40,000 employee company and, you know, it's a very well-known company.
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And so I'm like, okay, here we go.
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And so we get on the webinar.
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First thing he says is, you know, Ryan, now I got your information from our co-worker.
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She mentioned you guys do mortgages.
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We already have a first republic bank that helps us with all of our mortgages.
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Not sure how that would work with you guys, but what makes you different.
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And I promise you, if I didn't have the art of home ownership, I would have been hosed,
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right?
10:39
Because I can't say, oh, we have better rates in them.
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Because, first of all, I don't know if we do or not.
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They're a private mortgage bank, so my assumption is that they're probably going to be a
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little more competitive on some of their things at times.
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I can't really lean on service because, hey, I don't know their service.
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And the service is a subjective thing anyways, so it's hard to create a sale based on that.
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And so I just said, you know, I was his name.
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I think John, yeah, John was the name.
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And I said, I said, John, what your employees don't need is mortgages, right?
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They're not interested in mortgages.
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What they need is advice and guidance and help.
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And what we do is we help your employees with seven different areas of their life without
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them ever even getting mortgages, right?
11:23
They never have to buy a seller finance at home.
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I know we're happy to invest in Facebook's employees because we know that inevitably some
11:29
of them will need to buy a seller finance at home.
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We'll be able to educate them as to when or if they should, if it makes sense for them.
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And then there's going to be a lot of needs that they have that are not necessarily mortgage
11:39
related that we can help them with.
11:41
And so I went through all the things and within 30 minutes he goes, wow, this is incredible.
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He goes, so we don't have to pay for this and the employees are not paid for this.
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I know this is our investment.
11:49
This is our forward marketing dollars.
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He says, we'd love to have you.
11:53
We'd love to partner with you guys.
11:55
And so, you know, within 30 days, we were up on their campus, so we did a kind of kickoff
11:59
event in January.
12:00
We flew our team up there.
12:03
They have what's called a pop-up shop, so they'll let their vendors come on and you get
12:05
this little kind of like store that you set up in the store and all their employees
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who their campus is enormous, right?
12:11
So, all their employees are walking back from lunch and all these different places.
12:16
And you know, you put signs up to kind of direct people to your place.
12:21
And we had people coming through all day long, right?
12:23
And we had T-shirts were handing out and people would just come by and be like, what do
12:27
you guys do?
12:28
And I was, what was that was that the art of home ownership was the, it was the Ryan
12:34
Grant team in partnership with the art of home ownership.
12:36
Got it.
12:37
So, they saw art of home.
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We have like banners that we've made that says Ryan Grant team in the art of home ownership.
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And so, people would walk up and be like, oh, what do you guys do?
12:45
Right?
12:46
Because they're used to having vendors on campus there.
12:47
Right.
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And I said, do you own a home or do you rent?
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And whatever they say, I would say, well, this is how we help.
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And then inevitably they go, what's the catch?
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Like, how do I get all these things for free?
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And I say, well, the difference is most more companies like Quick and For example, will
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spend $400 million on Super Bowl commercials, hoping that you go into debt in the, you know,
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in eight minutes.
13:06
And we think that we can spend, you know, our version of our marketing dollars, which
13:11
is not $400 million, on helping you become more successful.
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And we, not only should we earn your business that way, we could actually impact your life
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in a positive way.
13:21
And they're like, wow, it seems incredible.
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So, they find out, they get a shirt and we essentially adopt clients that way, right?
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And so, I think we adopted 187 Facebook employees in the first four hours that we were
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there.
13:32
And they just started, they had kind of a change in HR.
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So, we had a meeting with them three weeks ago.
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And I had to kind of repitch it, right, because it was a new, like a new HR team.
13:43
Right.
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And the lady says, this is incredible, she goes, I'm going to be moving soon, like, I personally
13:49
need to use this.
13:50
She goes, I don't know why this isn't more of a bigger part of Facebook's culture.
13:53
And I was like, couldn't have said it better myself, I was like, I couldn't sell this
13:58
thing better myself, right?
13:59
Right.
14:00
Now we're doing monthly lunch and learns with them virtually, right?
14:03
So, every, every second Wednesday of every month, we do, you know, they promote it
14:08
internally.
14:09
And all Facebook employees come on to our webinars.
14:11
They post all of our stuff internally.
14:13
They promote people to sign up for our phone ownership.
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And so, you know, now we can take that to any company, right?
14:19
So, we're in talks with a few others, like in and out or blizzard.
14:24
And we're trying to, you know, show them the same type of corporate partnership.
14:28
It always helps to have like a flagship, you know, employer or, you know, corporation
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that helps to kind of show some social proof.
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And now all of the telephone ownership partners, right?
14:39
So, all loan officers and realtors who are telephone ownership partners across the country,
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they now have the same comparable, right?
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They can say, hey, this is, you know, we partnered with Facebook.
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Now, their personal team may not have, but artificial ownership is a whole deal, right?
14:52
So, they can use it to go partner with corporations and companies in their local markets, right?
14:56
And it's been a huge win for a lot of our telephone ownership partners.
14:59
Wow.
15:00
That's pretty amazing.
15:01
I want to come back to the, obviously, the discussion of our telephone ownership.
15:05
But perhaps I should have asked early on, that initial client at Facebook who you did
15:10
that loan for, that was buying the property in Huntington Beach, how did that come to you
15:14
originally?
15:15
It was a Yelp lead.
15:17
Really?
15:18
Yeah.
15:19
So, we get quite a bit of business from Yelp.
15:20
We're one of the highest rated Yelp lenders.
15:22
And so, you know, that culture up there is very much calculated, and so when Yelp found
15:29
us, raised out, you know, did the transaction, and she was a really incredibly nice lady.
15:34
You know, she was one of the higher ups in the company, and so it's not going to work
15:39
every time, right?
15:40
If we would have worked with probably 99% of the other Facebook employees, we may not
15:44
have gotten that introduction, but that's the game, right?
15:49
You never get for what you don't ask for, and so every single client, no matter what,
15:53
unless it's way outside of our purview, like if it's a company that's, you know, in Texas
16:00
or, you know, we're licensed there, but if let's say it's a company in Delaware, we're
16:03
not licensed there, then, you know, we wouldn't do that.
16:06
But if we're licensed in the state, which we're licensed, I think, in 17 of them, we always
16:10
ask every time it's a, and it's me asking, right, because I do the post-gosing calls with
16:14
every client.
16:15
Hmm, interesting.
16:18
You mentioned early on about HR, like I know some people going after corporations has been
16:22
around for a while, and you mentioned like, if I remember correctly, something about HR,
16:28
that's usually not a successful route to pursue.
16:31
Well, going direct to HR is hard, right, because they get pitched everything all day long,
16:36
right?
16:37
There's a million people trying to get in with large companies, HR, where, you know, they're
16:41
trying to say why they should be a benefit provider or why they should be in with them.
16:45
So they typically have their guard up pretty heavily, and so if they're not, you know,
16:48
but if an employee who works at a company says, hey, you know, I'd love for you to meet
16:52
this person and chat with them, they do something really unique, then it makes the opening
16:56
a lot easier.
16:57
Right.
16:58
That's just, but that's just half the battle, right, because imagine you're an employee
17:01
of a 3,000 person company, you're, I'm sorry, you're, you're an owner or an HR manager
17:05
with 3,000 person company, and I come to you and I say, hey, you know, we'd love to be
17:09
here for a lender.
17:10
We helped one of your employees, blah, blah, even if I get in, right, I get past it,
17:14
the gatekeeper.
17:16
You're going to say, okay, well, why you?
17:17
And I would say, well, we'll, you know, give you a little bit of discount rate, we'll
17:20
give you some credits, maybe free appraisal, and we have really great service.
17:24
It's like, are you really going to stick your neck out and say that we're preferred for
17:29
your company of 3,000 people when you don't really, like, you don't know if we have really
17:34
good rates or not, and you don't know if our credits are legit or not, or if we're just
17:38
pushing the interest rate up to give that credit, like, you don't know much about us, and
17:42
everyone says they have good service, right, they mean you could do some due diligence
17:45
and maybe they have good reviews, but at the end of the day, you typically don't see
17:49
larger companies take the risk of edifying a smaller, local mortgage provider without
17:58
an offering, and that's the challenge that lenders and realtors have nothing to offer
18:03
other than loans and real estate transactions.
18:07
So in the event that, you know, 99 percent of the 3,000 employees don't want to loan
18:11
a real estate transaction at that time, there's not much we can offer you, right, and so
18:15
the art of home ownership allows us to offer a suite of services that will fundamentally
18:19
impact the success of financial livelihood of the employee, and there's a lot of studies
18:25
that have been done.
18:26
We, our whole presentation is built around the studies that have been done by multiple
18:30
business journals that, if the employer takes more of an interest in helping someone
18:34
with their real estate and their financial success, it creates a much more employee lock-in,
18:39
it reduces turnover, it increases employee efficiency, because they're less stressed
18:44
about their financial capacity, so when we show that to the employer, along with all
18:48
the things that we have to solve those problems, it typically becomes a no-brainer, right, because
18:53
normally they have to pay for something like that or share in cost, but if we're, if
18:56
we're running that cost because of our affiliations art of home ownership, then I don't know
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what employer would not want to offer their employees a platform to be more successful
19:06
in every aspect of real estate or finance.
19:09
And was Facebook the first corporate client you had on board, or were there some prior
19:13
to that?
19:14
No, we had some smaller ones, some kind of local ones here in Orange County that, you
19:18
know, 100 employees, 300 employees.
19:22
I think that what Facebook did is it gave us the belief, it lent us the, not only the
19:28
belief, but the credibility that, hey, not only can we do this, but we absolutely should,
19:34
right, seeing how they're embracing it and seeing how they're promoting it really helps
19:38
us, you know, and we hate the term sales, right, but, you know, it gave advice for guys.
19:43
I couldn't even really believe it myself that we should be a perlinder for somebody and
19:49
we would add that much value until I saw what we did, right, and so now, you know, I can
19:53
say it, yeah, I can say it with confidence, I can say it with a full of belief, I have
19:57
social proof, I have a, you know, a large enough company where everybody knows the company
20:01
and what they're in, so it just, it gave us that extra credibility and we had a client
20:06
of it, it was Google, right, and he just emailed me back two days ago, he's like, hey,
20:10
whatever you have on that, can you send it to me, I'll push it over to my HR, so I don't
20:13
know if anything will come of it, but, and we send them over our video that we have,
20:17
that we created, we send them over our presentation deck that we do, so who knows, maybe Google
20:21
will be next, but it'll be a long shot.
20:24
You're on a roll, baby.
20:25
Yeah, we'll see.
20:27
Well, you mentioned something in terms of how the, your client at Facebook responded and
20:31
then, of course, the HR director who replaced the previous, both responded with like kind
20:36
of a wow factor, you know, they were like blown away by it, and I'm curious, because
20:40
I know you lead with education and I know you have for quite a while, your big believer
20:45
in the responsibility you have for educating clients and taking on this debt and how to
20:49
manage it.
20:50
What I'm curious about is, you and I both know this, you know, we were talking before
20:54
about loan officers and some people listening have heard of our own ownership, others haven't,
20:59
we'll put some links and, you know, tell you about a special offer at the end here for
21:02
you to learn more.
21:03
But do you think, given the educational journey to go on as a client, let's somebody who's
21:12
acquiring a loan buying a house or a refi, do you think, given that version of the home
21:18
loan process versus the more transactional one, do you think, by and large, 90 plus,
21:25
95% of the people would always pick the, hey, give me the more educational route?
21:29
Yeah, so the short answer is yes, the long answer is, the art of home ownership is, is
21:36
definitely educational, it's less about the upfront education around becoming a homeowner
21:40
or buying a home, like we do that almost separately, right?
21:43
So we used, you know, mortgage codes, we used MBS Highway, we, you know, we do hour-long
21:48
complications where we used to sit in the composing with them, now they're Zoom meetings.
21:53
And all of that is just a part of our normal process because we believe that the client
21:57
doesn't have the information they need and they really should, right, they not only need
22:01
to know what they can do, but more importantly, what they should do.
22:04
So we've always had that.
22:05
The challenge is what happens after that, because the art of home ownership is really geared
22:10
more around helping someone after the fact, because I tell every client, like buying a home
22:15
is not that hard.
22:16
I like, there's 495,000 licensed and MLS loan officers, non-bank, right?
22:21
I think in total, there's close to 950,000 with credit unions and banks, any one of them
22:26
can give you a mortgage.
22:27
Right?
22:28
Some can do it better than others, right?
22:29
Some have better mathematical skills than others, right?
22:31
Some, you know, are more detail oriented, but at the end of the day, if you have credit
22:35
increment assets, anyone can give you a mortgage, right?
22:38
And a lot of people can even give you really good advice on mortgars, not most, but there
22:41
is really good mortgage professionals out there that understand holistic personal finance
22:46
and will help you structure your mortgage appropriately, and we'll do that.
22:50
But then the really challenging part of the next 30 years, right, it's figuring out when
22:54
do I buy another home?
22:55
When do I sell this home?
22:56
When do I leverage this home?
22:57
When do I pay it down?
22:58
What should I be allocating my additional income on?
23:02
Where should I be?
23:03
How should I use real estate for retirement?
23:05
There's so many things that need to happen for someone to go from just owning a home to
23:10
becoming a successful homeowner that they don't have access to, right?
23:13
That nobody's helping them with, and they have to search that out on their own, and
23:16
most people don't have time or energy to do that.
23:19
So art of home ownership is really more based around the long-term value to the client.
23:24
And another thing I love telling clients is, look, if you think that managing expenses
23:28
leads to wealth, it doesn't.
23:31
I'm nobody's ever become wealthy by saving an eighth or quarter point in their mortgage.
23:35
People become wealthy by having advice and guidance and getting consistent planning,
23:39
proactive information that helps you actually move the needle in your financial and real
23:42
estate world.
23:43
And that's what the art of home ownership provides, that's what we subscribe to.
23:46
So our clients don't come to us for debt, they come to us for growth, and that's most
23:50
more companies haven't figured that out, right?
23:52
Most law officers haven't figured that out, most realtors haven't figured that out.
23:57
Yeah, your mortgage process, your mortgage experience is completely, I'd say, the opposite
24:02
of what people are expecting if they don't know you previously, right?
24:07
Of course, normally they're expecting, let's go zero to six, take, you know, tell me
24:11
to rate today, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but you totally turn that on its head.
24:16
Yeah, so people treat getting a mortgage like getting a credit card, right?
24:19
Go online, find a lowest rate, you know, who can give me quickly, okay, great, I have
24:23
my new credit card, now I can manage debt and I can figure it out, but then, you know,
24:27
credit card company's not helping you, they're actually doing the opposite, right?
24:30
And most more companies are the same, like we just, as an industry, you know, my goal
24:34
is creating the art of home ownership, but originally was just selfish, right?
24:37
I just, I needed a way to differentiate myself from my competitors, and I was, I was
24:42
not happy with what I was doing, I was not happy with being known for selling more debt
24:46
than most other law officers in the country, right?
24:49
So when I, when I was able to now reposition that and say, look, I can really help our clients
24:54
do some amazing things, and we create art of home ownership, and then I realize, you
24:58
know what?
24:59
Every loan officer needs to have this, and we're going to shine a phenomenal light on
25:03
the mortgage professionals who decide to take this route in their, in their practice,
25:07
because I think it's, it's important, and it's usually necessary.
25:11
Yeah, for sure, you, I was talking to a mutual friend of ours, Dave Marzenke, shout out
25:17
to you, Dave, if you're listening, yeah, yeah.
25:21
You had asked him a question, you know, we're in the middle of this RIFI boom, which is chaotic
25:24
in many ways, and many people aren't thinking, you know, where's the puck going, right?
25:29
To use that old reference, but you asked Dave a question, which he relayed to me, he said,
25:33
you asked him, where's your blind spot?
25:34
Right?
25:35
I don't know if you remember their conversation, and then it was like a set, do you want
25:39
to just, for the people listening, right?
25:42
What do they need to think about, you know, like when this thing ends?
25:46
A dark winner.
25:48
Seriously.
25:50
I mean, if we thought, if we thought the end of 2018 was scary, right, what happens when
25:55
rates go from 275 to 4 and a quarter, I mean, everyone in their, in their planet has
26:01
refinanced or, you know, gone to low rate, if anyone's taken any cash out, they're probably
26:06
doing it on a HELOC.
26:08
You know, if someone's got a 275, they're not playing on sell that home to move to a 4
26:12
and a quarter anytime soon.
26:14
And it's going to take a real long time for the psychology of the buyer to catch up to
26:18
the new level of affordability, right, a 4 and a quarter, less home prices are continuing
26:23
to climb like crazy.
26:25
So it's like a, you know, not a full stop, but the faucets are pretty slow drip at that
26:31
point.
26:32
And so when I ask people, they're blind spot, it's typically around 18 to 24 months from
26:37
now.
26:38
Now, some people might think, well, I'm just trying to keep my head above water right
26:42
now, right?
26:43
I mean, literally just trying to, right, too much business coming in, I'm a bear standing
26:46
in a salmon stream.
26:47
I only have two arms.
26:48
Right.
26:49
I can't, I can't get most of the salmon.
26:50
Right.
26:51
And so, you know, I love asking people that question because, you know, I was on MBS
26:55
Highway with Barry the other day, and I think you, you saw that and we were just talking
26:59
about, hey, you can't, you can't just be a worker, be right now, right?
27:04
You can't just outwork the industry.
27:06
And, you know, if you are, then save every dime, right?
27:10
Because when it becomes a challenge, if you don't have a differentiating factor, if you
27:13
haven't been building something that will continue to give you business long-term, it's
27:19
a real challenge, right?
27:20
Like, you really have a job as opposed to a career.
27:22
And so, all the things that we're doing with the corporate affinity partnerships and
27:26
the direct consumer adoption of artificial ownership are database, who really has become
27:33
dependent on us in every aspect of real estate or finance.
27:36
Those things create that longevity to where when the market becomes challenging, not only
27:41
can we still survive, but we can thrive, which is, you know, one of the things that we've
27:45
always focused on is I always want to outpace the market no matter what the market is doing,
27:49
hard to do now, right?
27:50
But, in a downward market, being able to outpace it is something that, you know, that's
27:55
what you really can tell who runs, who runs a successful business and who doesn't, right?
27:59
Because right now, you're just scraping it all.
28:01
Anybody can win right now.
28:03
Right.
28:04
Do you guys do just a segue for a brief moment here?
28:07
Because I know you're heavy on, you know, past client database and leading with education
28:10
and creating this value to attract people back to you.
28:13
You do an amazing job with your referral partners so that they fight on your behalf.
28:17
Are you, and you mentioned consumer direct?
28:19
And of course, I'm on your website, checking it out.
28:21
You do, you're, we'll put links in the show notes, but your website is like a, a, a, a,
28:26
a college level class, you know, in engagement, leading with education, using direct
28:33
response, lead capture type stuff, you know, with, with information, quizzes and education
28:39
library.
28:40
It's really like amazing.
28:41
I'm sure you spend a lot of time in money building that.
28:43
So kudos to you.
28:44
I'm curious.
28:45
Yeah.
28:46
With that, are you also investing in any other consumer direct strategies, whether it's
28:50
PPC, Facebook ads or anything like that?
28:53
A lot of it right now is social media with art of home ownership, right?
28:57
So we'll ask a question, you know, do you just own a home?
28:59
Are you a successful homeowner?
29:00
Take this quiz to find out.
29:02
I like, you have this node, you have this node, you have this node, okay, you know, sorry,
29:06
you're not a successful homeowner, but you can become one, doesn't cost anything, click
29:09
here, right?
29:10
Or, you know, understanding home buying in the COVID era, you know, mastering the art of
29:15
being a homeowner.
29:16
There's a lot of different things that we'll test and we'll run that, you know, we'll
29:20
get seven to 10,000 views and we'll be able to capture, but if I'm super honest, we're
29:25
just not pushing a lot of direct consumer right now because all of our referral partners
29:30
in our database really need our help the most.
29:32
And so the, the external stuff, you know, if I had more staff and a bigger fulfillment team
29:39
and operations, then we could do that, but we didn't hire 70% more people, unfortunately,
29:44
we're working on it, but that's awesome.
29:48
All right, so let's do this.
29:50
Let's pivot briefly and talk about, for those listening, the art of home ownership.
29:58
And let's kind of, I mean, you've kind of really already alluded to and explained kind
30:01
of what it is, but here's the thing, right?
30:04
You and I have chatted, you've been on the podcast before.
30:06
I'm a huge fan of yours, as you know, and I'm always looking for things that I think
30:11
are incredibly valuable and useful for my listeners to bring to them.
30:14
And it's very rare that I do.
30:17
So based on what you're doing, what I've seen happen, just who you are as a human being,
30:21
you know, I feel definitely strong and confident in endorsing you in this platform.
30:26
That said, let's be clear that art of home ownership, integrating that platform into
30:34
your mortgage practice is not for everyone.
30:37
So maybe we should talk about who it's not for.
30:41
Yeah, you know, the first thing we did is we limited it to, you know, really two loan
30:48
officers or two mortgage professionals for every 100,000 people in an MSA or a metropolitan
30:52
pharmaceutical area.
30:54
We want it to be a major differentiator between just being the cheapest provider of mortgages
30:59
and being the most valuable provider of mortgages.
31:01
And we are very well aware that it's probably less than 1% of mortgage regulators in America
31:06
that will even be attracted to this type of platform that will want to be this person,
31:12
right?
31:13
That want to end up becoming the most valuable person in their clients lives as a relates
31:16
to real estate or finance.
31:18
And so, you know, we know that it's a limited release.
31:23
There's only a certain number of partnership opportunities available in each market.
31:27
And the person that's going to really speak to is the more professional who wants to actually
31:32
be valuable.
31:33
All right.
31:34
And one of the biggest pet peeves I have is you see all over social media and everybody
31:38
know, why do you do this?
31:39
And I love helping people.
31:40
I'm like, okay, let's really break down what you're doing here.
31:42
Like when you say helping people, someone who already has decided to buy or finance a
31:46
home, rate it out to you by some act of miracle, whether it's referral or, you know, they find
31:51
you somewhere.
31:53
And then they decide to use you, whether out of thousands of other lending choices, you
31:58
give them the mortgage that either they want or that you believe is best.
32:01
And then you leave them on their way.
32:03
I like, how much does that really help them, right?
32:06
All you really did is you just kind of, you just served an order, right?
32:09
It's like, it would be like if someone at Burger King said, I just love helping people.
32:13
Like, all you're really doing is just giving them what they ordered.
32:17
And so if you really want to take that to another level and you really want to be valuable
32:22
to your clients and impact their future generation of wealth and be the consummate financial
32:30
professional in every aspect of the word, then this applies to you.
32:35
All right.
32:36
Otherwise, if you're just the churn and burn and get them in, get them out, quote rates,
32:40
and you know, we always say there's a big difference between production and performance.
32:45
There's plenty of loan officers and plenty of companies that outproduce us.
32:49
I would just argue that there's probably none, unless there's other art of homeowners
32:53
and members that outperform us.
32:55
Hmm.
32:56
Interesting.
32:57
Well, it's funny how outperforming and leading with education and all the things that
33:00
you have articulated here really creates, I think, ultimately what people want, right?
33:06
Isn't that that the sustainable business that supports you through good and bad all markets,
33:11
right?
33:12
Yeah.
33:13
I mean, whenever you have people that are coming to you saying, hey, Jeff, I was referred
33:18
to you by my friend, Joe, and Joe just said that you're really great with everything
33:23
real estate and finance related.
33:25
I'd love to chat with you about my situation and see what you suggest.
33:28
Very few lenders get that type of referral, right?
33:32
The referral is, I want to buy a house and I told you I've got rates or do you have
33:35
a service or I want to re-finance and I got your information, like typically people only
33:39
get people who already know what they're doing.
33:41
What we want to strive for as more professionals is to adopt the consumer in advance of their
33:46
decision.
33:47
Yes.
33:48
So I want you to come to me before you even have a clue on what you want to do about real
33:51
estate or finance.
33:52
I want to learn more about you and now I want to help give you a roadmap, I want to
33:55
help create a plan for you, I want to give you advice or guidance at worst.
33:59
I want to tell you, Jeff, you're actually in a really great position and I like I wouldn't
34:02
change much, maybe just get your estate plan updated, maybe double check your disability
34:07
insurance.
34:08
But other than that, I think you're in an awesome spot based upon what your goals are and
34:11
what you want to do.
34:12
Let's follow up again this time next year and if anything's changed or evolved, we can
34:15
just keep a conversation going and then we'll talk every single year.
34:18
That's the type of advisor we need to be.
34:21
We don't need to be selling anything, we just need to be curious and when you remove
34:25
the outcome of the conversation from sale or no sale, it's incredible how valuable you
34:30
can be to the client because you're just listening and intently trying to solve any problems
34:34
that make this.
34:35
Yeah, the other thing too that I just thought of that's that's very interesting and creative
34:40
is you think about you're actually building your future business by giving people access
34:45
to art of ownership, you know, through the corporate arrangement, you talk about the
34:49
millennials, right?
34:50
I mean, you are basically building those relationships to be the person they're going to choose because
34:55
you've been most engaged with them during that whole journey till they're ready to buy.
34:59
Yeah, and that's 100% it, right?
35:01
If someone can do no cost for renovation financing prior to selling their home to get the
35:05
most value out of that home when they sell it, if they can move from one home to the next
35:09
with the relocation technology that takes out stress, energy and money, if they have monthly
35:14
real estate wealth digest, if they have a home concierge, there's like a personal system
35:17
for their house, like they get all these things without ever transacting, right?
35:21
And so engaged is a probably an understatement, right?
35:24
Like when I was just getting really moving the needle in their life and so it keeps us
35:28
top of mind, it keeps us, you know, engaged at a really high level.
35:33
And we will typically know when they should do that transaction before they do, right?
35:37
And that's that's the key.
35:38
That's pretty amazing.
35:39
That's awesome.
35:40
Congrats to you.
35:41
Okay.
35:42
So let's for those who want to learn more about art of home ownership.
35:47
That's okay.
35:48
No worries.
35:49
That's editing school, man.
35:50
Yeah.
35:51
All right.
35:52
So I'll be back into that.
35:53
Three, two, one.
35:54
All right.
35:55
So for those who want to learn more about art of home ownership, as I said a moment ago,
35:58
we've decided to collaborate.
35:59
And for my listeners, we're putting together a two step process.
36:02
Number one, the next step would be if you want to learn more about art of home ownership.
36:07
I'm going to give you a website and I'm going to actually put it in the show notes as well.
36:10
But it's go home ownership.com.
36:13
Once again, it's go home ownership.com.
36:15
And what that will do is take you to a page with a brief video and what you can do there.
36:19
If you want to learn more, it's scheduled a time to speak to somebody on Ryan's team
36:23
to learn more about, is this the right fit for the two of you?
36:26
Because what I know for certain is, as Ryan said, they're not looking for everybody.
36:31
They're looking for the one percenters or just under that who really have the mindset
36:35
and approach that Ryan talks about.
36:37
The advantage you guys do have that, if you do decide to take action on that,
36:41
is for our listeners here on the podcast, you get $250 off the sign up fee or the set up fee
36:47
because there's a lot that goes into setting this up and make it work for you.
36:50
So that again is just, you know, as a thank you to being a loyal listener and Ryan,
36:54
thank you for making that available to our listeners.
36:56
Yeah.
36:57
How about to help?
36:58
Yeah, for sure.
36:59
So, that's it, you know, as far as, if you like what you've heard today, if you want
37:05
to get ahead of, like Ryan said, your blind spot in the next, what was it, a dark winter
37:10
in the next 18 to 24 months, prepare for the change that's inevitably coming and really
37:17
build a sustainable, long-term business, I strongly encourage you to check out the
37:22
start of home ownership through the links we share with you, go homeownership.com.
37:26
Ryan, I know you're busy, man.
37:28
I appreciate you making time and all I can say is thank you.
37:30
And thanks for also leading an industry who needs more people like you to kind of level
37:35
up our game.
37:36
Yeah, man.
37:37
Thanks for having me.
37:38
I appreciate it.
37:39
All right.
37:40
And listeners, you know what to do if you like this episode.
37:41
Leave us a review and appreciate you tuning in and we will see you on the next one.
37:46
Bye for now.
37:53
Hey, guys, what's up?
37:54
Real quick.
37:55
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