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Transcript

Asking for Help Isn't Weakness · UNLOADED

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to welcome everyone back to our podcast unloaded.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is Michael Seahorn.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Shannon Morrow.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to be here today.
• 0:09
  unknown: Yep.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Another amazing podcast ahead of us.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I I got something I got something interesting, I think, that's uh that might bring some.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh it's gonna be a joy to talk about on one hand.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't really want to talk about it.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you should see Michael right now.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's a little triggered.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, walking into this thing.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do we really have to talk about?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Asking for help.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it sounds silly.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, asking for help is so triggering, but but um yeah, no, it is, man.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is a tough one for you.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be difficult, man.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I ain't gonna lie to you.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll be honest, as always.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, let's let's talk about uh asking for help, man.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So asking for help is is it's a broad statement because I mean it could it could literally mean anything at some level, right?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it could mean anything from, hey Shannon, can you give me a hand and you know read this dissertation for me too?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: The the worst ask that we all hate is when somebody says, Hey Maggie, help me move.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like busy.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I'm not I'm that guy with the pickup truck that generally says yes.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I used to in my younger years.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now my body's not quite strong.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: To me, like when somebody asks you to move, like you you gotta be pretty good dudes, you know what I mean?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey man, can you help me move all my shit?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're just like God.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you learn a lot about folks in the middle of a move, man.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Some people they got all their boxes all packed up nice, everything's ready to go.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Other people you show up and they're they're just like they need a lot of help.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good grief, man.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't have too many people doing the ask anymore.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I I've I'm be honest with you.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you can drive a trailer, I'll offer you can use my trailer.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can use my trailer, man.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just don't damage it, but you can use the trailer.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck moving.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, neither here nor there.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Asking for help.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, this probably goes all the way back to when I was a young buck, probably well, uh, I would have been 12 or 13, I think.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: 12 or 13.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um had a little little incident where at the time my stepdad took off in the middle of the night, left my brother and I alone, and uh mom was on the west coast, we were in Baltimore.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dude just rolled out.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And my brother and I had a week to figure our lives out until mom got back, right?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Ironically, and Shannon I've talked about this before, so it's something he hasn't I don't think he's hasn't heard, but when I woke up that morning, came downstairs and saw a note on the table with a hundred bucks, and for those of you, you know, not born in the uh 80s, 70s, and 80s, you know, 100 bucks back then was okay, but it's still gonna be a stretch for you know two kids, mind you, because I was 12.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I had to be 12, my brother was 16.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for a 12 and a 16, you're gonna wait a hundred bucks to make it through the week, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: But in that moment of time, when I when I came down and I read the note, I I can't remember what I felt at the time, but I do remember the thought that I had at the time.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the thought that I had at the time was there's nobody coming to help me.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to figure this fucking life out by myself.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that moment of time was stamped in the subconscious depth of my brain.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because from that moment forward, especially when I become a younger man, got into my twenties, and you know, started trying to live a life and then becoming a a husband and a father at some point, got into the military, spent my time in the military.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed to asking for help was getting harder and harder as the years were ticking by, if that makes any world of sense.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: That moment stamped onto your psyche, really.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: There is no one coming.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: No one's coming to help you, man.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: There is no help.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is up to you.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that that's big, that's heavy.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that really formed some things.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: It did, man.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the the I think the bad part about that was even in times where I really needed to ask for help, I wouldn't.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna get through it, I was gonna figure it out, and come hell or high water, that's the direction I was gonna take.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And just for our listening audience, that is not healthy.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna be honest with you, it's not healthy.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because there were times, even as a a man, where I really needed some help, man, and I just wouldn't ask for it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about those in past issues, so we're not gonna bring that back up.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: But even from the simple fact is like I needed to move my family.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we were uh out of one uh rental home and uh we were trying to get into another rental home because they were selling the house, and I needed a truck or a trailer or something at the time I had a mini coop, so I wasn't moving much in the mini coop.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even then, as a grown-ass man working on being a better human being, I was still having issues asking people for help.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's crazy.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the last episode, we were talking about these stuck points.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is a huge, huge stuck point for me.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: If I ask for help, then dot dot dot, fill in the blank.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Am I weak?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can I can't figure out my I can't figure out my life, I can't, you know, I can't I can't make it on my own.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm sure there's probably like a hundred more sitting in there somewhere, right?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's the top three.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can't make it on my own.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: If I ask for help, does that imply that I I can't make it on my own?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to challenge that one.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's uh I like to say it's gotten better and it has, it surely has for sure, but um I I still find myself going back to that stuck point where it's like I don't want to ask, I don't want to ask a dude, hey man, I need X.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't care what the X is, it's you know, whether it's I've tried to sell myself I I've tried really good to try to set myself up so I I have the tools now that I need, but you know, prior, I didn't have a tool, I didn't have a truck, I didn't have a trailer.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have those things now.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there were just things I didn't have and I needed.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, as a man, I just was like, this sucks.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm tired of asking.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's the thing too, is I maybe I felt a little bit like I'm just tired of asking people for help.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: But ironically, it's a stupid statement because I never asked.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's in my head, yeah, but it never came to fruition because I wouldn't let it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just figured it out.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Making things a lot harder on yourself.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, man.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, subtext, like, dude, how how capable are any of us truly like oh so independent we can do everything on our own?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I get it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we do have the tools, if we do have a trailer, if we do have, you know, I mean, a lot of capacity, capabilities to mostly take care of our take care of ourselves, you know, um, great.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can even, you know, show up for others, you know.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um but how how much are we all really truly like on our own?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're all so connected, just even societally, you know, we to put gas in our truck, you know, or to get food from the grocery store, or so I mean electricity and water coming into all of our homes, you know, we're we're all so reliant on each other, our you know, together.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're all doing our jobs and to keep things going, you know, to support each other in that more collective sense.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's I think more more times than not for me personally, like in today's world, it's a lot of the quote unquote asking for help from me really is asking people that are doing other things outside of my realm.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, I had this we have a canal where our water comes to the property, and we wanted to uh put a fence along there to keep my dang dog out because Odin loves the water.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's a uh you know Newfoundland bred dog, so he just loves the water, and wife wanted to fence up because grandkids come over.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So just a little safety.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was gonna uh I went down to the big R, bought a big ass uh roll of uh square fence, and uh it's like a hundred and it was just a weird, it was like I can't remember it's like 388 feet or it was something weird.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It at the time it wasn't a big deal, I didn't really give two crap.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: The guy helped me load it in the back of the uh the truck and I went to the house, kicked it out the back onto the concrete, put it on a dolly, you know, put it out in the yard.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, about a week later, man, I I was like, why why is it an odd amount of feet?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it doesn't make any sense to me.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not a rancher, uh, I'm not a farmer, I'm an army guy, military dude, and I I had no clue.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um I actually asked my my owner, I'm like, hey, what's up with this you know, X amount of uh footage on the fence?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not like 300 or 150 or 200, it's like 388 or something, something weird.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Oh.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's because when you you know when you stretch these out on the ranches, they put these little uh I don't even know what they're called, I guess these little posts and things that keep the tension, and then they put these certain amount of feet, they put little gates or whatever.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess some smart guy figured out that every rancher uses kind of the similar footage, you know.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so when I'm asking a lot of guys for help these days, it's for more knowledge.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm okay asking for for knowledge, man.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about this.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you know?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I before everybody gets all spun out, yeah, I can Google it and I can get on the AI and all this stuff, but I still enjoy talking to people.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you're kind of doing two good things at the same time, is when you're asking another person for their uh opinion or advice or their knowledge, it makes people feel pretty darn good, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And beyond sorry, I no go ahead, Shen.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And beyond that, it gives them an opportunity because when we get to explain something, when we get to pass on knowledge, it often develops it for ourselves.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you really want to know something, teach it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they someone might have a concept or an understanding of something quite well, but then someone suddenly asks them about it, and for them to have to explain it or teach it or pass on, pass it on in a way that someone else understands it, that uh provides greatly for the person passing it on.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: They they grasp it more, they figure it out more, understand it more.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it provides other people an opportunity for their own development of the same subject matter.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think too, you know, you're you're also letting the other person know that you value them by asking them, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm as humans, we know that people don't have to come ask me anything.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody has to ask me about IT, nobody has to come ask me how to build a website or whatever the case may be.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can go online and do that all day long.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I find more traction out of asking the people that I know that are in that world, whatever that world is.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I ask them because I do truly value their knowledge.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even as a human being, you know, when people conversely ask me certain things about my past or my experience, it does create a sense of, you know, just makes you feel good, to be honest with you.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, this person trusts me enough to come ask me my opinion, right?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Of or or whatever that value might be.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And even just the value of basic human connection, just providing your attention to someone else, someone prov providing their attention to you, that basic connection of an exchange and communication, just like, hey, hey, I was kind of wondering, what's it?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And oh oh yeah, but uh that that back and forth is human connection, quality attention, and that's that's what makes the world go around.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does, man.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you know, when I when I first started getting into um more the rodeo world because my you know my owner is a huge rodeo guy, man, they're they're throwing around nomenclatures that I have no idea what the hell these nomenclatures mean, dude.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I have no idea.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now I I could be a dumbass and just sit there and act like I know and shake my head, but I'm missing out because I I don't understand what is going on, man.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I just had to lean over and be like, hey, I uh what what does all this mean?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know, they give you a whole quick laundry list of hey, this is what's happening.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now I can enjoy the damn thing because I don't have to sit here and try to decipher all this lingo that I've never heard.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've learned.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like the military.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you and I were talking about our, you know, all the different army, air force, you know, slang that we've come accustomed to, and two people have never been around that, they'd have no clue what we're talking about.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like like most things, we there's these almost whole different like language or just learning the language, the subculture, if I whether you're talking bicycles or IT or military stuff or rodeo stuff or medical stuff, you know, if if you don't know just even the basics, what what's the stem on a bicycle?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's you know, I mean, posterior, anterior, what's you know, just there's so many um just learning the language, um, and and until we grasp basic understanding of what these words mean, we're we're not going to understand.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and yeah, it sounds silly, but getting back to asking for help, I think it's still all relatable.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: All right, you have to be comfortable just asking somebody.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not difficult, doesn't mean you're weak, doesn't mean that you're you're dumb.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's quite the opposite.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I feel dumber sitting here trying to figure something out that I have no goddamn understanding of, dude.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm too proud, if you will, or too, you know, too manly to just kind of pop my hand up and be like, hey man, I'm I'm I'm sorry, man.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: What what does this mean?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: What does X mean?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that shows a lot of self-confidence in myself that I'm okay just saying, hey, I'm sorry, man.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not familiar with that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you're weak.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It just means that you don't know, and you don't know what you don't know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't make you stupid.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it goes a lot back to this, you know, just asking for help.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, like Shannon was saying, I'm I'm pretty I have a lot of capabilities because I've I've built my lifestyle that way just because I'm that's just who I am.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of capabilities, a lot of tools, and things like that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have to ask a lot of for help these days, but when I do generally what I have found is it's a little easier these days to ask, and I think it's probably credit to the last 11 years of improvement.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I don't I don't ever take it lightly either when I do ask somebody for help.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really want them to know, man, like I super, super appreciate that if you can help in you know with whatever that may be.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't take that lightly.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty silly that we're even talking about it, but I see a lot of people.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not silly.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just I don't know.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I guess a lot of things that we talk about here on Unloaded, it it seems sometimes it seems a little simple, but then when you really unpack it and really start talking about it, you it's applicable across the board.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of us who have have a big struggle with asking.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, slow down, I don't understand.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what you don't understand?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't, man.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Slow down.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: More simple, please.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's and it goes it's both sides of the fence, too.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not it's not male-driven or female driven, it's just things that happen for us human beings.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now I I can tell you that in my past years, uh I had some uh people, if you will, that seemed to be people that that that's all they did was ask for help for everything.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and there's other side, right?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's the other side of the coin.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh what I started to feel was that it was just laziness at some level.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: They just didn't hey man, can you come help me do this?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, can you come help do this?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey man, can you can you my my dryer this, my washer this, and this and my car?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how'd you make it this far?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love I I it's hard for me to admit.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I too often still, even though I'm I'd like to think I'm getting a little better at it, I've been trying to catch it, you know, but how often do I ask a question or begin to ask a question?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like, oh, wait a second, have I uh tried to answer this for myself?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the dude sitting right next to me or even my wife a lot of the times, or whoever, you know, just it's easier like, hey, what's what's gonna happen?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and if I actually slow down and look at it and like, oh wait, let me think this through, like, da-da-da-da.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And to put in the mental effort to answer our own questions off like it it that's thinking, that that's that's brain power, and it it's nice to sometimes wait, slow down.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Can I or at least get as far as you can?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do I think the answer?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the right answer?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but I've thought about it enough, not certain uh now I can ask the question, or even ask a more informed question, because I have attempted to think it through somewhat for myself rather than just throwing it out there without giving it much thought.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very valid point because it's exactly how I've um raised my children.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've raised all of them to try to attempt to do something to fix your issue or fix your problem.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that and it's a great point because I want them to try to go through that mental exercise of trying to figure out something, which is pretty ironic because I I do the same thing before I go.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I have a little bit different level at the company, um, but I always attempt to try to figure it out as far as I possibly can figure that out.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then once I get to the part that I can't figure out any longer, that's when I need to take it somewhere else.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, whether it's to, you know, uh, you know, one of my staff members, whether it's to my owner, um, or make a phone call.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I I try not to depend on the computer too much sometimes because it becomes a huge crutch and I don't feel like it's using my mind any longer.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just asking the question to Google is great, but I'll get all the answers.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Easy peasy.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy, but what I'll tell you is what I have found out is by not going through the exercise of trying to get as far as I can possibly get on my own.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: What I find out is if you get the wrong answer, you don't know what's the wrong answer.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's no yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But putting in the mental effort, this is it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Effort.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is effort, and effort can be very beneficial.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is how we grow, that is what strengthens us when we put forth effort.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy to uh get lazy or not want to put in the effort or whatever, but man, if we just become accustomed to like, well, no, life uh in general requires quite a bit of effort to achieve you know what we want or go the directions we want to go.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so just to get comfortable with the the task or the energy of effort, it can really benefit us.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, it can, and you know, it's uh it comes up a lot into.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Today's new AI world, and I know it's a huge topic out there, and I'll give I'll give a real real world example is when I was creating uh our website unloaded, I was having an issue with um one of our pages, and I and I just couldn't get it figured out, so I threw it in AI.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ironically, AI was just going down the laundry list of try this, try this, try this, try this, try this, try this.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And in that process, when I was looking at its quote unquote fix to my problem, it dawned on me where the solution was.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So just by reading the step by step, it was like, hey, you know, go through this laundry list.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: In that reading, it dawned on me that hey, I think I now I think I know what the the problem is.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Funny thing was, AI didn't give that to me.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, the solution wasn't in the laundry list.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it advanced your thought just enough.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I went in and explored what I thought the problem was, bingo, the solution was there.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh something I've been working with uh with people on my staff and and even in the family is uh use AI as a tool.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's no different from any other tool.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: This tool is an input tool.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it gives you an output, but if you're not understanding the input on your own, then you don't understand the output.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where some people get a little confused.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Please be very intentional, be very mindful, slow down, be conscious of just this big word calculator, this big machine, that it is indeed artificial, and so it's up to the user in determining, you know, okay, how am I what input?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good point.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: What input am I putting in to get out the output that I'm that'll actually serve?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you know, if I input something in, I'm just gonna use this as a hypothetical.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: If I input something into AI and go, hey, how do I build a rocket?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it gives me a laundry list of how to build a rocket, how do I know that's right?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't because I don't know how to build a rocket in the first place, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my input.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Output in my own personal theory on AI is use it only as a tool, but the input is very important.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you know what you're hell you're talking about, or have a an understanding of what you're trying to get the output to tell you.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a tool, so good luck with all that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're a little off topic, but I think it's prudent because asking for help, asking for help in my current position and role, what I see 90 plus percent of the time is that's the default.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and please don't ask AI for help per se.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I hope you understand the meaning of that.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a it's a powerful tool, and if you know kind of how the tool tool works and you can use it fairly correctly so it meets your needs, great.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: But just surrendering, throwing your arms up, not putting in much effort, and say, uh, you know, just help.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, that is a good point.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do see is that people aren't asking for help as often because they're automatically defaulting to the new, the new world that we're living in.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that takes away from that human connection of just that valuable attention we can provide one another the real, the non-artificial, the natural intelligence.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, th through asking for help now, what I generally find too is you know, if I have a staff member that comes to me and says, Hey boss, I need this, or I'm having a problem with this.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Generally, what I find out is in that conversation, that conversation generally turns into quite an involved involved solution.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And in that conversation, what I sometimes get out of it is you may solve two or three other things by just going back and forth, talking about the original ask.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're building off each other's thought.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, figuring things out together.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's the beauty, that's the power of two minds working together, having multiple sets of eyes on something, you're advancing each other's thought and knowledge, and then it's a more it's a bigger, like you said, more emerges from that than just generally the original intent.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and at the same time, like Shannon said before, is you're you're just building a you're you're building a deeper relationship too at some level because of the back and forth.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: There it is.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there's often cool little tangents that form out of that that otherwise would have never been created.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just don't go on a big tangent.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well it depends.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it does depend, man.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Some some people are a little longer than others, but it's okay, man.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Neither here.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, Shannon, what do you think if if we're having a problem asking for help, do you do you kind of have a starting point for for someone?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's very broad, but it if it all right, let's just use me as a couple.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, based upon what we've talked about at the beginning of the podcast, what would be your advice to me that it might I know you have a problem asking for help, maybe it's okay.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's totally fair.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, if you can normalize it, like, yeah, of course, it's this is common.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us have a hard time asking for help, man.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: It we have this weird stuck point, it implies weakness.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I ask for help, people will think I'm weak.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's challenge that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: We all could use a hand from time to time, you know, and then yeah, there's a lot of pride stuff or ego stuff, or just yeah, there's so much involved, and it's so case by case.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's generally, you know, many of us don't mind being asked, you know.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not take that opportunity from another, like, what, you're curious about this?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, let me help you.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'd love we like to teach, we like to explain, we like when our knowledge is sought a a lot of the time.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it's if we have the time for it, if it's appropriate, time space and all that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's pretty enjoyable to provide that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, so um just getting over our bad selves and uh you know and the fear of what people might think, and it's it's okay.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course it's hard, yeah.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That that makes sense, naturally acknowledging that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And while also then maybe maybe ease in, check it out, explore it, just uh see how it goes.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So relatability.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, nice, yes.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just listening to you just now, it popped into the brain.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Relatability, man, because we can all relate to helping somebody.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and needing help.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that's maybe that's a good reminder for all of us, and you know, me included.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you when you're having a difficult time asking for help, just remind yourself that most likely the person you're trying to be talking to is had to ask for help as well.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, there's some relatability on there.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's been a great conversation today, uh, especially talking about things that make me uncomfortable.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was a lot of fun.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um definitely um if you need help in the mental space world, I please, please, please, um, definitely ask for help.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, please.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: In a big way, about the big things, real stuff.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's there's a lot of resources out there.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so 988's out there, um, it's free.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you're if you're not call, text, it's uh you know it's a great, it's a great platform that they've got for people.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: As always, look in your local area for you know mental health providers in your local area.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Google's good for that for sure.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And like always, just a quick friendly reminder that in no way, shape, or form is this mental health being put out for you listeners.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is just Shannon and I uh having a conversation.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you're looking for some mental health, please look up a provider in your local area.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: As always, man, it's been fun.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you, Shannon.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate our listeners out there.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but this is Mike Seahorn, Shannon Morrow.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll catch you guys on the next episode.