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Lessons from Spending $30 Million Marketing Direct to Consumer · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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Hey, what's up, Jeff Zimper. Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio
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podcast. Appreciate you tuning in. Once again, if you have been listening for a while, I would
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really appreciate that you take a moment to leave us a review. That's how we reach
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other people and dominate as the one of the top podcasts in the industry. So if you're
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on your phone app, listening to this, you know, where to find the little link, the tap
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to go ahead and leave a review of this podcast. I'd greatly appreciate that. And if you're
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new, welcome. Hey, glad you're here. Make sure you're joining our Facebook group. It's
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over on Facebook. Just search for Mortgage Marketing Radio. And there'll be a link as
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well on the show notes to our Facebook group. So you can check that out. Now, as you know,
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you've been listening for some time. Every week, I'd like to bring a success story to you
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from the streets, one of our mortgage professionals that are a member of my agent classes, which
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is our platform of education that allows us to reach agents at scale and leapfrog from
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solicitor and vendor to partner in peer. You know, one of my favorite sayings is that if you
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want someone's business, you need to become part of their business. And that is so true for us
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in the situation with ourselves and real estate agents as that particular pillar of referral
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partners. There are others, of course, but let's just face it, realtors are still. And for the
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foreseeable future, we'll continue to be whether that's listing side or by side, we'll continue
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to be a solid source of high quality, high converting buyer referrals. The question is,
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how do you get engaged? How do you get attention? How do you approach them? Because your approach
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matters, your value proposition matters. The first point of engagement matters. And unfortunately,
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most are stuck in the position of solicitor or vendor. And vendor is someone who leads with
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product and pricing. And let me ask you a question. How loyal do you feel when you think of someone
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and their vendor? How much value do you put in that relationship? How much trust? Probably not
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much. And that's why I'm making it my mission to help you, the listener, fellow mortgage professionals
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to become a partner and a peer and to move out of the stage of vendor. How do you do that?
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You help agents solve problems. How do you reach the agents? How do you get engagement? How do you
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attract instead of chase? Look, I've been doing this since 2003 and haven't found yet a more
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effective, efficient way to reach agents at scale than leading with education. So what we do is we
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help mortgage professionals teach classes in their local market in person or virtually with a
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complete done for you turnkey platform called margin classes that helps equip you to become the
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thought leader without having to be an expert on the topics without having to really struggle to
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get butts in the seats. You follow our program. You're our system. You will reach agents at scale
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and dare I say it. Double your real to referrals and increase your income. How do I know? Well,
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because this week I got our latest success story of the week and that comes from one of our long
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time members, Liz Reese. What is up? Liz? Liz has been working with us for. It's got to be approaching
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three years easily, but Liz has been doing classes pretty consistently in her local market. Many of
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them over Zoom, by the way, virtually. However, she just posted in our private Facebook group that she
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had the education committee director for the Central Valley Association of Realtors where she
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operates. Retow to her and wants to book her Liz to come T.J. class every six weeks in 2024.
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Folks, this is what happens when you build a personal brand of value, right? It attracts. When
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you demonstrate this consistently, when you show up repeatedly, right? And you share good content.
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You help people solve problems. You're differentiating yourself. You're not leading with products and
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price. You will attract. Resistance goes down. Trust goes up. Conversations lead to contracts.
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And they lead to a situation like Liz getting invited to get in front of the board of Realtors
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every six weeks where they're going to promote her classes for her. How amazing is that? Would you
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like to learn more? Would you like to see more success stories? You can book a time on my calendar
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right now by simply going to mortgagemarketing.pro. Grab a time on the calendar that works and we will
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have a chat and see if we are fit for you, mortgagemarketing.pro. This week I'm bringing to you a very
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special guest who I had the opportunity to connect with in the last few weeks and really wanted to
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just introduce you to introduce him to you. Josh Friend. Josh Friend is a luminary in our industry,
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has been in our industry for 25 years, 23, 25 years, has funded millions and millions of dollars
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of loans, has personally trained thousands of loan officers. And today, what he's focused on
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is helping lenders, originators drive purchase volume while increasing real estate agent engagement.
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And he's doing that by leveraging his platform called Encelerate, which is a pretty amazing
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technology CRM marketing automation platform that really delivers on this conversation he and I
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talk about today, which is improving the borrow experience, increasing efficiencies, freeing up time
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from the repetitive tasks that many originators have to do in this business. How about capturing
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the future transactions from your past and future clients that most miss out on because they're
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simply not in front of the right people? Well, Josh and I just kind of have a really quick power
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discussion on what's missing from the tech stack for most originators today when it comes to that.
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We're going to definitely talk about what he learned as a 20 plus year career originator.
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And you know, this whole concept behind lead gen, right? Consumer direct. And what does that
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look like? And what is the infrastructure you need to have in place? And if you're intrigued
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or curious to want to learn more about his platform called Encelerate, I and S-E-L-L-E-R-A-T-E,
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Encelerate, I spent a lot of time looking at different tech platforms working in a few,
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as a matter of fact, and have been working in and around the whole marketing automation
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technology field for the last decade. And listen, this is no commercial. I don't get anything for
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this. I just like to bring cool stuff to you guys, the listeners. And I think this fits the bill
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for that. So the link will be in the show notes to Encelerate.com. But I hope you enjoy this conversation
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with Josh Friend. Now let's get into this week's show. Josh, welcome to the show.
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Thanks for having me.
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That's my pleasure, man. Good to connect with you. So we got to jump into it for sake of time
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here today. If you would, just give us the kind of brief backgrounder who you are in the industry.
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What do you do? So I'm currently on the CEO of Encelerate,
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background. Come January, it'll be 24 years of business and mortgage industry.
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So I started off as a loan officer in 1999. And then by 2003, I started my first mortgage company.
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2010, I invested in a bank called People's Bank, helped them grow their mortgage company
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from 190 million year in business to about 3 billion. Sold the bank in 2018. And the software
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we built along the way, Encelerate kind of really was gaining some popularity amongst other
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lenders. They wanted to use it. So we started selling it. And since 2018, it's just what I do
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full time, which is, it's great because I get to do what I enjoy most, which is going into
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mortgage companies for how they become more efficient. How they can do things better. I miss
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having the loan officers and having that type of camaraderie and cell strain I used to be able to
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do. But I've been in this industry for 24 years now. So that's really my background.
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How do you go from being an originator to developing a, you know, becoming a software executive and
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building a CRM? So I worked at IndyMac Bank's first call center. So IndyMac Bank had really
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good technology. And they really thought about technology. And so I worked there for a couple of
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years. I saw a lot of things that they were trying to do. And then I just happened to be one of
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those kids that, you know, when I was in junior high, I could, I learned how to compute a program.
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So I knew technology. I was an engineer in college. So when I started my mortgage company, I'm like,
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oh, let me take engineering processes and practices of efficiencies and map it out the workflow and
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go through the whole process and go, gee, why does it take so long here? We can put more people here,
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build a process better here than I just started building software. Hey, I want to be able to track
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this. I want this to happen. That doesn't happen. Well, shoot, let's automate it. And that's it,
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you know, so that was just, you know, just from my own need and use. And you know, obviously,
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that need and use that I had, you know, I spent somewhere in the neighbor with $30 million
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market and mortgages to consumers as a lender. So, you know, I, you know, I figured, I solved that
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for myself. That's a large spend. And I know I can help other people solve their needs. And that's
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really what it came down to is just, you know, let's do this full time. All right. Well, that's
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an interesting entry point there. You spent $30 million marketing mortgages to consumers.
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Two quick questions on that. What did you learn about how to get consumers to engage your respond
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to that? Well, what I learned the most important thing in gaining consumers is your top of funnel
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management. So a lot of people, I would, I mean, I did a ton of direct mail. I bought
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internet leads in radio. I didn't, I never did television. It's the one thing I stayed away from.
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But I did everything else call centers, you know, buying leads from Lennon tree, Zillow, our own
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stuff, you know, I would find other lenders who would come into the process and say, you know,
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we tried that, but they just never had the systems in place and the discipline in place that
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actually make it work. So what I mean by that is you buy a lead, you get a lead, generally,
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if you're not systematically calling that lead less than like 30 seconds, you, you've lost the game.
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And that's just what stats have shown over and over and over again. First person to talk to a
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customer gets the business. You're more likely to contact the customer in the first, you know,
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five minutes versus 30 minutes of the massive amount of automation. So that's really
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the reason what it was within salary is, hey, you know, I'm going to get a certain amount of
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business, but there's a lot of waste that comes over here because they're not getting called in time,
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no one's ever falling up with them, no one's ever reaching out of them. If I can automate all that,
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I can make money. And that, you know, so that's what I really learned was it's really and you have
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to look at your customer, even if you're just a straight retail loan officer that gets referrals.
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Every contact you look, you have to look at that that's a lead and how do you manage that in real
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time and for lifetime? Yeah, I'm going to assume, I hope this doesn't sound like a softball question,
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but I'm going to assume that if you're doing any type of lead, Jan, at any any volume beyond
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single digits, you need some type of a system or platform and automation to manage that.
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Yeah, I would say in any level. So we have done what we call our MBA contact study.
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That's we've six different years of it now. So it's been it's been a long time.
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Most recent one, we go out and we contact you to each study about 500 lenders.
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Go to their website, do whatever form of contact me now, call get rate, whatever they have available,
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we follow it out, we have a burner phone, you know, the whole set up and then we track
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who calls us when they call us, who text us, who emails us how often.
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And you would be surprised that we want, you know, we're talking of 1400 largest
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lenders in America, we typically take the NBA's list of top lenders in America and contact them,
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because those are ones we figure about 500 at a time. But overall, it's been I think around 1400
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different lenders over the years can in and out that 500.
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Our average less than 50% of the time, they does that lead ever get contact.
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Wow, like it's insane. Like, you know, think I mean, just think about that.
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And so you're a loan office or the other thing you have to offer someone is your service and
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talking to them, right? Sure, that's missed opportunity. Well, and those that's examples from
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companies that are arguably assuming they're using some type of a platform for lead capture and
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follow up yet half the time, no one's getting any follow up. That's right. That's a lot of money lost.
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That's unfortunate. So part two of the question of the 30 million spend over time with regards to
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generating leads. You talk about kind of what you learn, top of the funnel speed, delete,
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all that kind of stuff. What has changed or what have you stopped doing or have you started doing,
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right? Perhaps in the last few years with the evolution of the consumer journey and tech,
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for example, yeah. So I mean, now I no longer spend the money to market. So I get to work
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up all my lenders that do. But so you know, I get a broad view of a lot of things. What I can tell
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you is my lenders that really embrace understanding how to use social and really digitally automate it
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have really done well. That has become an actually really strong place for people to find,
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keep and retain business. And you know, you can build it into like a workflow just like anything
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else now. Like so, for example, you can use and celebrate. You can say every lead at six months
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that's at this pre-approval status or whatever it is. I want to go into my Facebook campaign XYZ.
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And in Facebook, you can have a campaign XYZ, which is, hey, it's been whatever I'm your local
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lent, whatever you want that message to be or during the process. So what we're seeing is lenders
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who are sprinkling in this end. Now I'm working with a customer. I try to call them. I've spoken
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to them now. So they're going to see social media. Now here's the great thing about it. They don't
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have to be your friend. So social media and you can do this on your own. You can go and pull
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down a list on your own and go manually send this to go into Facebook and upload a custom,
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a custom audience list. You do this all manually if you want. And target people who are doing that
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type of business, marketing to new consumers, retargeting old consumers, and then following up
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with emails, calls, tech. It's a multi-channel approach at this point. It's like I want to,
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it customer wants to interact, one they want to interact, and how they want to interact.
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That's what we see. It reminds me of the phrase omnichannel, which is kind of that buzzword that
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was used a lot. But that's true today because the consumers kind of like that hummingbird who goes
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around to all these different destinations, it's no longer one road. That's right. And you want
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any shop everywhere? Yeah. Because when they're ready to eat, you want to be there, right?
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That's true. But what you're saying is this is back to the automation thing. Most people,
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well, not most, but there's some hurdles to doing that manually, quote unquote, to getting in there
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and setting up your spouse, especially if you're in L.O. And you weren't programming in high school.
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But the fact that you have a platform like yours and accelerate, which can recognize those
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stages or milestones to actually fire off a campaign like that automatically.
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That's right. That's the whole thing. So you don't, you know, I think it's, but it's exciting
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about the mortgage industry now is you don't have to be super tech savvy or spend a lot of money to
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now deploy technology that's actually far advanced in some of the top letters in America.
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Right. You can be a lender or a loan officer that every time someone reaches out to you, you
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guarantee, a hundred percent time, you reach out to them multiple times, right? And you'd already
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doing better than some of the best biggest letters in America. And it's like, you know,
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they have huge pockets, deep pockets, and they still don't do this well.
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Well, I mean, so tech, you know, this is better and you know, this is probably better than most.
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This whole, you know, discussion or point of everything we just talked about, right?
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Automation and we got to be in front of the customer and the free and speed delete and all that
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kind of stuff like that prick me if I'm wrong, but it's that's not necessarily a quote new narrative,
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right? No. Yeah. But why is it so hard to get adoption? Well, there really hasn't been
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systems out there in place. I do this. Okay. So there's two systems out there in the marketplace.
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Let's get sold the mortgage companies that can enable the speed delete. Okay. The other company
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was software was built 2003 and does zero for retail loan officers. It only helps consumer
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drug loan officers. There's no retail functionality. So, huh? I'm really curious who we're talking
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about here. Blossified. Only the only one that has lead distribution, automatic dialing,
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it's us and them. They don't have things like a content library. We have single property
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landing pages and open house flyers. They don't have any of the retail phone. They're just they're
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just purely so raised their hand. We're going to make sure someone calls them and talks to them.
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We have all that built in functionality, but we just take it to the CRM and to the retail loan
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officer. We empower more than just a call center. So that's why I mean, it just has the technology
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hasn't been out there. Phone systems are not easy to work with. Right. You know, when I first got
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in the industry and I started my first mortgage company, I was doing integrations of phone systems
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immediately because I knew, hey, I'm really talking about working with a customer. And most
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my communications by phone, I better make sure I actually know what the heck's going on.
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So like in our system, you can make it that every phone called to and from your customers
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tagged within the lead record. You can create rules that they don't get called. This happens.
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If they do get called, that happens. There's like a lot of reporting and management and
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really understanding what's going on. And just not a lender's not a lot of letters I've ever
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actually really done that. And let's just be honest. Hey, to 2021, 22 parts of it. I mean,
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these lenders crushed it. They didn't have the call. I went back and they still had more business
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and they possibly could shake a sick at the differences. Those lenders who today weren't calling them
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back and aren't doing it. They're not going to survive in a down market. Like now you can't be
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bad at this. You have to be really efficient. Yeah, exactly. So it's back to the basics.
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All that, which it's funny. This industry of things, you know, goes through these cycles of,
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you know, braining from the sky money and then the, you know, the spiket turns off and everybody
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wakes up. It's like, shit, I got to actually do some work, man. Oh, yeah.
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Well, there's lots of sports cars for sale right now. You know, people are at that side.
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Yeah, you see it all. But it's, you know, it is, I mean, in my 24 years experience,
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my easiest, most profitable years, I was the easiest in the industry,
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have been after a major market down cycles.
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Why? Because the, the, the herds thinned out?
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The herds thinned out. And when I'm less busy and there's more need to be efficient,
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I'm paying even more attention to how everything's working within my organization. So I'm
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becoming hyper efficient with everything that we do. So the minute that there's been a product
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that gets found, the consumer said at the rates of whatever takes place,
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we're way ahead of it. We're very much more, we've already become more efficient over the last
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so last out there. So we just are able to, we were just able to grow faster and have just,
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I mean, I had some easy years, 2009, 10, 11, 12, some of the easiest years I ever had in the
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industry. And other people were like, oh, you're in the mortgage industry. Oh, I'm sorry, man.
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It's like, okay, I mean, I have to tell you, I'm absolutely killing it and it's, it's been
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easiest I've ever in my entire life. So, you know, you just have to work on efficiencies and
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here's the other thing. So when people left the industry and some of the loan officers are
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feeling sorry for themselves right now, if you're willing to be positive and work hard,
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it's, you can easy outwork someone else. Yeah. It's still going to be close to $2 trillion in
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business every year. It's a lot of money. I mean, I, well, whoever you are, that's a lot of
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money to make. So, yeah, someone's going to make them, I, I tell people loan officers,
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there's going to be loan officers that are making a million dollars this year.
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Right. So, it's possible. Why not you? It's not impossible to do it.
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What was your top sources of business when you were originating?
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So when I worked at IndieMAC, I mean, my top sources of business was actually Lending Tree Leads.
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I was on the Lending, I was on the Lending Tree lead team. I had some referrals. We were, I was
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in a call center and I was on the Lending Tree team because I had like three high conversions
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with them. That was probably my top source of the top source of the business for the company
20:30
was their service and portfolio. You can imagine that that's, I unfortunately wasn't on the
20:35
service and portfolio team. But, you know, did you ever, you know, work the traditional kind of
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realtor referrals all that? Yeah. And I mean, the way I, the way it would have, it would work for me
20:46
is I would do a loan. Someone Lending Tree was buying a house and they would, and they would go
20:52
to Lending Tree and look for a loan. I do the loan and I meet the real estate agent who was a
20:55
seller's agent. And I would go in and be like, Hey, listen, I'm going to tell you, I know you don't
20:59
know me, but let me just tell you how I work. I'm an update to you this time, you know, and I gave
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them the same pitches I would give you if I was to retail loan officer. Like I know my product,
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I know my service, I'm always going to be on time. I can give you, keep you updated and you
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don't have to worry. And I would do such a good job. I would get business all the time because
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at the end of the day, real estate agents, do they really care if I take them out to lunch?
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No, I can make friends with them on the phone. They, they, it helps.
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It's right. Yeah. They want service. They want, hey, I want to know if I'm going to do,
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I'm just someone's buying a house. I tell them to go talk to Josh. They're going to like Josh.
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It's going to work well with Josh. If he tells me it's closing on the 15th, it's closing on the 15th
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and I don't have to lose sleep about it. Right. So, and so I would, I did, I did do a lot of
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purchase business to real estate agents just because I would earn their business on the hot side.
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Well, that's the first test, right? You've earned their business. You did a great job.
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Then maybe it's appropriate. And I'm sure once you've got that success,
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obviously you earned referrals from them that didn't come from lending tree.
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Oh, that, that's exactly what that's exactly how to work out. So, hey, listen, you know,
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I'd be more than happy to help. And usually what they would find is that transaction was so
22:05
easy right now that I have a someone's buying a house and your rates seem great, whatever service,
22:10
I just, can you talk to my person because it's, I rather give my person great service than
22:15
use something, you know, then just a local person. Exactly. See, that's the whole thing is
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rates and service. It's, it's relevant, but not until you get into a transaction. So, you know,
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like what I've talked before, what I focused on is the step before that, like top of the funnel,
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you got to get the conversation first. Because, you know, I know you're great. Everybody says
22:36
they're great. Let's see how great you are. That's right. Right. If you don't mind, I want to
22:42
throw a quick curveball at you, the NAR lawsuit situation. I'm curious now to get executives like,
22:48
you know, yourself, your take on that for directly looking, what do you say?
22:54
I mean, I really think it's a really interesting,
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ruling. And I think it's also very interesting with the timing of the dual agency ruling that
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came out was it last year. I think it is going to have sweeping impacts on the mortgage industry,
23:13
as well as the real estate industry. And over the next three to five years, I think we're going to
23:17
see a change of how consumers buy and get loans. I think there's going to be a difference in that.
23:24
Any painting any pictures on what that means? Well, I mean, if I'm a real estate agent,
23:30
I'm a broker owner. And all of a sudden, my commission is going to get cut by a point or two.
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And now, because that's where that's going to happen is it's now basically saying, hey, you know,
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you can't artificially keep 6% and if someone's only offered a 2% in the sell side, you can't
23:45
not make offers because that's really what came down to as well. Let's stay away from this
23:49
for sale by homeowners because they're not paying us the 3% in this. And that's going to start
23:54
getting some serious pressure. Now consumers are going to say, oh, wait a minute. I want to pay
23:58
4% or 3% and it's going to happen. And they're going to start pushing commissions down and then
24:03
their real estate agents are still going to want to make money. And guess what? You now can be a
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loan officer and a real estate at the same time. Explain what you mean by that.
24:14
Well, so it used to be with FHA rules and stuff. There's dual agencies where you couldn't be a
24:19
I as a real estate company. Couldn't also be a mortgage company. I couldn't do home loans and sell
24:25
house at the same time. Right. You can now. So I, I, you, where I'm seeing people go out to
24:35
the real estate agents and companies and say, hey, be a non-producing branch manager
24:41
as the owner and your loan officer or your real estate agents or loan officer assistance,
24:46
they have to take the application and then my inside person will actually close alone. Now
24:49
everyone gets paid and it's compliant. Stay. So I think that's the question mark is we really don't
24:57
know yet what this is all going to look like. So that, I mean, so I just see those two things
25:01
converging like as an yeah, I, people want it. Real estate realtors want to make money.
25:07
Same money. They're going to run for revenue. It's an interesting dialogue though to be a sell
25:11
there, right? Which, you know, I know you've obviously experienced this is when you're selling a
25:14
home and this was the, the one angle some realtor had brought up. It's like, how many sellers actually
25:19
even recognize that your 5% two and a half of that is going to the buyer, buyer's agent?
25:28
Do you think a lot of sellers even connect the dots on that?
25:32
No, I, yeah, yeah, I would agree. And so when they do, because I was trying, I was thinking
25:37
about that to myself now that this whole thing has come down because it's just been standard
25:40
practice, right? Now, yeah, whatever's 5%, you know, buyer's agent's got to get paid. I got it.
25:45
But now you start bringing it to the surface and you're like, wait a minute. Why does it make sense
25:48
for me to pay 2 and a half percent to somebody who's against me? You know?
25:55
Yeah. What are the really, what are they really bringing to the table? And, you know,
26:00
what's being brought to the table if I mean, I, you know, I can tell you that my experience
26:07
in finding homes, and I've had real estate agents that have been actually really good at what they do,
26:11
but I've always found my own home. Yeah, that's right. You're usually finding online, whatever. Okay,
26:16
let's look at this. Yeah. And they help me with the contract and they go, and yeah, and it is worth
26:21
something, definitely, but it's not necessarily worth 3% or 2 and a half percent of the purchase price
26:27
the end of the day. Yeah. But either side. So that's good. I just think that'll change. I just
26:32
for sure. It's going to take some time. There's a lot of money in the in the lobbyist group. So I
26:36
don't know, you know, it, it's, it's, you know, I saw sad the other day that said like the NAR was
26:42
one of the largest lobbyists in the country. I think they are the largest if I'm not staying.
26:46
Like how did that pay off? Well, because it took so long for that to take place, maybe, maybe,
26:53
right? But their their representations sucked. Yeah. You know, so anyway, so let's then put a
26:59
tap on this with a few minutes we have left. Then, uh, okay, put your originator hat on. You're
27:03
out in the streets. You're, you know, elbow to elbow with agents and, you know, doing the usual stuff.
27:08
There's all this chatter right now. How are you coaching yourself or other L.O.s of
27:14
how to adapt to this? How are you engaging with agents or others considering this whole NAR thing?
27:22
I mean, right now I'm just business as usual. Yeah. Going out there, trying to hustle, you know,
27:27
I'm doing more effort than I normally do. I'm being very diligent, right? So sometimes people
27:33
can become real busy and they're busy every day, but they're not disciplined to why they're busy.
27:37
So it's not as effective. So I get really busy right now. I get really effective. Mondays I do this,
27:42
Wednesdays I do this, Fridays I do this, time block. You know, I, you know, I'm going to consistently
27:46
call these people once a week for the next six months in regards to the giving bit. I get really
27:51
specific around those tasks and just focus on them. So that's what you can do is, you know,
27:56
you know, you know, it's just also a loan funds. All this work goes, you make friends, you get
28:04
referrals, you, all this stuff happens, you talk to the cut. So it's just focusing on all those
28:09
steps. I would just say, I'm going to focus my energy and time on all the steps that give me
28:13
business and track how much of that I'm doing. I just do is, you know, every week make sure I do
28:17
those steps, make sure I do my prospect, get in my this. So, you know, you're not missing out and
28:22
just be disciplined about it. And just, you know, that's really it comes down to is be disciplined
28:26
about, you know, what, what the steps are and, you know, just keep doing the work.
28:30
So no magic pixie dust, it's just be brilliant in the basics again, right? Fundamentals.
28:35
Listen, I was talking to someone recently that I know a younger kid and business and I'm like,
28:41
and I go, listen, at the end of the day, all you have is your time and effort. Like, you know,
28:50
if you have a hundred million dollars in the bank and you're managing that, sure, your assets
28:53
is worth more than your time and effort. But right now, most of us, almost valuable assets are
28:57
time and effort. Yeah. So we have to just go, you have to go do the work, not the magic about it,
29:02
just do the work. That is true. And when possible, use automation and tech platforms in a smart way
29:07
to get more efficiency and leverage, right? That's right. That is doing the work. Set all that up,
29:12
doing the work, put it all in place, understand how it works. So do the work. Yeah, I don't know if
29:17
you're a fan of Michael Gerber, the e-mith, but the system is the solution, you know.
29:22
What it's all about. So on that note, I know we were tied for time. We got like one minute left.
29:27
For those who want to learn more about and celebrate, I'm going to put a link in the show notes,
29:30
I-N-S-E-L-L-E-R-A-T-E. Lots of good info on there. We obviously barely talked about what you
29:36
guys do. And I just think that I wanted to bring somebody of your, you know, leadership and background
29:40
just to kind of talk about, you know, the things we did. But please, if you're listening to this,
29:45
whether you're an individual producer or an executive branch manager in some company,
29:50
if you haven't checked out and celebrate, this is kind of my endorsement, because you and I
29:54
had a look behind the hood a couple of weeks ago. And you know, definitely some really cool stuff
29:59
when it comes to the tech platform that you're doing. So, with that data-direct people there?
30:03
Yeah, just go to it and sorry.com. You can go over there, ask for some information.
30:08
You'll someone reach out to you. But Jeff, hey, listen, I really appreciate it and great talking to you.
30:13
Yeah, you as well. So, listeners, you know what to do if you like this episode, leave us a review,
30:16
share it with somebody that you might think would find it useful. And we'll see you on the next one.
30:20
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