Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / How to Eat 400 Fewer Calories a Day Without Trying (Abbey Sharp) | Ep 480

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How to Eat 400 Fewer Calories a Day Without Trying (Abbey Sharp) | Ep 480 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Philip Pape: You've heard me say it a hundred times on this show.
• 0:02
  Philip Pape: Eat enough protein, track your macros, be in a moderate deficit for fat loss.
• 0:06
  Philip Pape: And that's all true, but what if you're doing all of that and you're still struggling through every afternoon, still thinking about food constantly, still one bad day away from a binge that wipes out a week of progress?
• 0:18
  Philip Pape: My guest today is a registered dietitian who has spent a decade studying why even well-designed nutrition plans often don't work.
• 0:26
  Philip Pape: And that's because there's a foundational skill we're often ignoring.
• 0:30
  Philip Pape: It's not about eating less, it's about building meals that crush your hunger.
• 0:35
  Philip Pape: And when she shows you the data on what happens when people get this right, including spontaneously eating 400 fewer calories a day without trying, you'll understand why I invited her on.
• 0:45
  Philip Pape: So stick around to learn this powerful approach that will change the way you put your meals together forever.
• 0:52
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, where in every episode we put a popular piece of fitness advice under the microscope, find the hidden reason it doesn't work, and give you the deceptively simple fix that does.
• 1:05
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, Philip Pape, and I've invited on Abby Sharp.
• 1:09
  Philip Pape: She is a registered dietitian who built one of the largest evidence-based nutrition platforms in the world.
• 1:15
  Philip Pape: She's the author of the best-selling book, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, host of the Bite Back podcast, and works with women every day who are stuck in that cycle of unsustainable eating and insatiable hunger often.
• 1:29
  Philip Pape: And that cycle is what this episode is about.
• 1:32
  Philip Pape: Now, most of us, most of you dear listeners, are adults who lift weights.
• 1:36
  Philip Pape: Many of you are over 40.
• 1:38
  Philip Pape: Many of you understand the basics like protein, calories, fiber, micronutrients.
• 1:42
  Philip Pape: And Abby and I are going to explore the satiety science underneath all of that.
• 1:46
  Philip Pape: Why do hunger and food noise really get in the way of the best plan?
• 1:51
  Philip Pape: Why is the combination of macros or compounds in each meal important when it comes to hormones that control hunger?
• 1:58
  Philip Pape: Why is food composition and satiety important to fueling your body to give it both what it wants, also what it needs?
• 2:05
  Philip Pape: And of course, we want to love our food and what we eat.
• 2:08
  Philip Pape: Abby's going to show us how to build every meal so that hitting your goals feels more spontaneously effortless than just white knuckle boxing mats with your hunger and cravings, like we're all familiar with.
• 2:18
  Philip Pape: Abby, welcome to the show.
• 2:20
  Abbey Sharp: Oh my goodness.
• 2:21
  Abbey Sharp: Thank you so much.
• 2:22
  Abbey Sharp: That introduction was just what a great start to my day.
• 2:27
  Abbey Sharp: Thank you so much.
• 2:28
  Abbey Sharp: Thank you for having me.
• 2:29
  Philip Pape: Thanks for coming on and thanks for what you do.
• 2:31
  Philip Pape: I think your podcast is awesome.
• 2:33
  Philip Pape: And I think the listeners are going to get a lot out of this because we are very much aligned.
• 2:37
  Philip Pape: And, you know, it's not that we're in an echo chamber, but there are things that surprisingly people still aren't familiar with that can really help them, that can really help them out.
• 2:45
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 2:45
  Abbey Sharp: Absolutely.
• 2:46
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 2:46
  Philip Pape: And, you know, protein, of course, you call it the king of the satiety hierarchy in your book.
• 2:51
  Philip Pape: I completely agree.
• 2:53
  Philip Pape: And my listeners mostly get, if they're they've heard a few episodes of the podcast, how important it is.
• 2:58
  Philip Pape: But you argue that protein by itself only gets you part way there.
• 3:01
  Philip Pape: And that people are missing, I guess, the whole picture, the other compounds that complete this picture.
• 3:06
  Philip Pape: What is that full formula?
• 3:08
  Philip Pape: What is the secret?
• 3:09
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Abbey Sharp: So, I mean, just to give you kind of a little bit of a background on this method that I call the hunger crush and combo method.
• 3:15
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, essentially, you know, we know most of those kind of crash diets, any of the diets that we see come up in our feeds every single day, all of them are telling us to cut something out, to restrict something.
• 3:26
  Abbey Sharp: And you and I both know that our bodies like fight tooth and nail against deprivation with all these different compensatory mechanisms, you know, physiologically and psychologically.
• 3:35
  Abbey Sharp: And that psychological piece is so important because when we put ourselves in a state of scarcity mentality, it almost always triggers this hyperfixation and obsession and food noise and binging.
• 3:47
  Abbey Sharp: And then eventually we just throw in the towel because this is just not sustainable.
• 3:51
  Abbey Sharp: So the hunger crushing combo method flips that script because it's working with our biology and our psychology to focus instead on adding nutrition, not always taking away.
• 4:03
  Abbey Sharp: This is a really important mindset shift.
• 4:06
  Abbey Sharp: And so we're specifically going to be adding fiber protein healthy fats.
• 4:10
  Abbey Sharp: And so if we want to break each one down and why they're so important, you know, protein, as again, many of your listeners may know, you know, there is this kind of collective obsession right now with protein.
• 4:21
  Abbey Sharp: And I think for for one, good for good reason, but nobody needs like protein candy.
• 4:26
  Abbey Sharp: But, you know, when it comes to like most of our goals when it comes to weight management or building muscle, you know, A, protein slows digestion.
• 4:35
  Abbey Sharp: So it's going to keep us fuller longer.
• 4:36
  Abbey Sharp: It's going to help to stabilize our blood sugar.
• 4:38
  Abbey Sharp: So we're not riding high, crashing low, looking for another quick fix.
• 4:42
  Abbey Sharp: It boosts our satiety hormones like GLP1, peptide YY, you know, really important for staying full.
• 4:49
  Abbey Sharp: Three, it has the highest thermic effect of food, meaning it burns the most calories out of any other food component just to break it down.
• 4:58
  Abbey Sharp: That's about 20 to 30%.
• 5:00
  Abbey Sharp: So if you are, let's just say, consuming 100 calories worth of pure protein, you may only actually be kind of utilizing or absorbing 70 to 80 calories of those because it takes so much energy to actually digest and absorb it.
• 5:16
  Abbey Sharp: And then of course, it builds and supports lean muscle mass preservation because we don't just want to lose weight, we actually want to lose fat.
• 5:24
  Abbey Sharp: And when you're in a calorie deficit, our proteins are going to be very high to protect that metabolic muscle.
• 5:30
  Abbey Sharp: So protein is one, two, fiber.
• 5:33
  Abbey Sharp: Now, fiber is really key because it stretches the stomach because it's volumous, which can activate our fullness signals.
• 5:41
  Abbey Sharp: It boosts so satiety hormones, it quiets our ghrelin or our hunger hormone.
• 5:46
  Abbey Sharp: And what's really cool about it is that it has the lowest calorie density out of any other food component, meaning you get to eat a lot of food for not a lot of calories.
• 5:57
  Abbey Sharp: And it's really cool.
• 5:58
  Abbey Sharp: I mean, if you just think about that, like you, yeah, you could eat a third of a cup of Ben and Jerry's or you could have 30 cups of spinach, which I do not recommend anybody does.
• 6:07
  Abbey Sharp: But the the the point I'm trying to make is that there's really cool research showing that the volume of food we consume every single day is actually relatively consistent, even if total calories change.
• 6:19
  Abbey Sharp: Meaning if you are typically only full when you eat a dinner size plate of food, you are gonna have a hard time duping yourself into feeling full eating a salad plate of food, even if the calories are the same.
• 6:32
  Abbey Sharp: So the fewer calories we take in in each bite, the fewer calories we consume in a meal across the day over time.
• 6:40
  Abbey Sharp: And that means basically we're getting the best satiety bang for our caloric buck.
• 6:45
  Abbey Sharp: Also, fiber nourishes our gut microbiome.
• 6:48
  Abbey Sharp: And I can speak to this afterwards, but you know, the gut microbiome also affects our weight.
• 6:54
  Abbey Sharp: So that's the fiber piece.
• 6:55
  Abbey Sharp: Then there's healthy fats, and this is where people kind of get tripped up because they're like, especially when they're trying to lose weight in a calorie deficit, on a cut, whatever, they're like, well, fats have the most calories out of all food components.
• 7:08
  Abbey Sharp: That means like I've just got to cut out if it's if it's high in calories, it's gonna be bad for weight loss.
• 7:13
  Abbey Sharp: No.
• 7:14
  Abbey Sharp: Healthy fats and fats in general give food staying power and satisfaction.
• 7:19
  Abbey Sharp: It literally carries flavor and provides the mouthfeel that makes a meal feel complete.
• 7:26
  Abbey Sharp: Because if you just think have you if you've ever had to try to try to have this a salad with no dressing, no cheese, no nuts, no avocado, like it leaves a little something to be desired.
• 7:36
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, fat also triggers the satiety hormones, it slows digestion.
• 7:40
  Abbey Sharp: But because it is higher in calorie density, my kind of takeaway in the hunger crushing combo method is that we want to choose what I call whole food dual citizen fats.
• 7:51
  Abbey Sharp: And that means the healthy fats that contain fat, but also contain either protein or fiber.
• 7:58
  Abbey Sharp: So that could be salmon, for example, has healthy fats, has protein.
• 8:02
  Abbey Sharp: Or it could be something like, you know, avocado, which has the healthy fats and it has the fiber.
• 8:08
  Abbey Sharp: So that's how these things are working together: fiber, protein, healthy fats.
• 8:13
  Abbey Sharp: You know, and generally what I say is one at a meal is essential, two is better, all three is gonna hit like tick all the boxes.
• 8:22
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I think that's awesome.
• 8:23
  Philip Pape: And and I know we didn't even get into secondary effects here on like maybe blood sugar or energy regulation, things like that.
• 8:30
  Abbey Sharp: That's a whole other huge piece.
• 8:32
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 8:32
  Philip Pape: So you mentioned protein candy, and it made me think of like protein water.
• 8:35
  Philip Pape: And I go, if I'm in like Target in the grocery aisle and they'll have high protein bars that have five grams of protein, you're like, Come on, people, what are you doing?
• 8:42
  Philip Pape: Like, I like that they're like thinking about protein, but then it creates this backlash too, where I've heard mainstream podcasts talk about protein as a fad.
• 8:51
  Philip Pape: And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.
• 8:52
  Philip Pape: It's just like you're saying here, Abby, it's additive.
• 8:55
  Philip Pape: You're adding protein because it's a sufficiency thing and it's an adequacy thing, let alone satiety and all the other stuff.
• 9:00
  Philip Pape: Whereas restriction is really what happens with fad diets.
• 9:04
  Philip Pape: You cut things out and you eliminate.
• 9:06
  Philip Pape: So just to make that point clear, because you you kind of touched on the obsession with protein, but also that we're adding it into additive nutrition.
• 9:15
  Philip Pape: So kudos.
• 9:15
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:17
  Abbey Sharp: Oh, yeah.
• 9:18
  Abbey Sharp: I mean, that the protein craze thing is getting out of control.
• 9:21
  Abbey Sharp: And like you said, like it's frustrating for those of us who've been singing the praises of protein all this time.
• 9:27
  Abbey Sharp: And now suddenly we have everything slapped with a protein label on the shelves.
• 9:32
  Abbey Sharp: And unfortunately, because marketing is so persuasive and the and these health halos are just so easy to basically overlook any other of the nutrition components of those foods.
• 9:44
  Abbey Sharp: We have protein cookies that, yeah, might have 15, 16 grams of protein, but people are not turning it around and seeing that that protein cookie is also coming with 450 calories.
• 9:55
  Abbey Sharp: It's not efficient at all.
• 9:56
  Abbey Sharp: Right.
• 9:56
  Abbey Sharp: At the end of the day, like, yeah, they might have a few more grams of protein than the original recipe, but it still has not got basically what I call like a good protein to calorie ratio.
• 10:07
  Abbey Sharp: And so that's what we're talking about with the Hunger Crush and combo method is getting the best satiety bang for your caloric buck.
• 10:14
  Abbey Sharp: And let's be real like a protein candy, a protein cookie, a protein, you know, whatever it might be, is a Pop Tart is not a replacement for a chicken breast on your salad.
• 10:25
  Philip Pape: And they don't taste that good either, trust me.
• 10:27
  Abbey Sharp: No, they don't.
• 10:28
  Philip Pape: They don't as something like that.
• 10:29
  Philip Pape: I mean, what did I had today?
• 10:31
  Philip Pape: I made an omelet with leftover chicken thigh, and it's just, oh, you know, just so good.
• 10:35
  Philip Pape: So then the fiber piece, again, that that's a whole that could be a whole episode itself.
• 10:39
  Philip Pape: What I want to target on the fiber, and not just the satiety and the stretching and and all of that.
• 10:45
  Philip Pape: But what about the health benefits or lack thereof in the context of people who think you don't even need fiber?
• 10:51
  Abbey Sharp: I mean, we have plenty of data that like really colon cancer rates are on the rise.
• 10:56
  Abbey Sharp: And what is the one of the major reasons for that?
• 10:58
  Abbey Sharp: Not getting enough fiber.
• 11:00
  Abbey Sharp: Fiber is so important.
• 11:02
  Abbey Sharp: It's not just the poop nutrient, right?
• 11:04
  Abbey Sharp: Like it's this is not just, I know we always think, oh, you need fiber to poop, but we also need fiber to essentially like feed that good, the good bacteria in our gut.
• 11:14
  Abbey Sharp: And our gut microbiome is associated with the health of every other body system: blood sugar management, hormone regulation, mood, you know, immunity.
• 11:26
  Abbey Sharp: The list goes on, including our weight.
• 11:29
  Abbey Sharp: And this is a really interesting area of research that I think I want to kind of tell you a little bit about because you know, I think again, a lot of folks, when they're kind of in the diet space, they just might think, oh, well, calorie is a calorie.
• 11:42
  Abbey Sharp: Like as long as I'm hitting my macros and I'm hitting my calories, nothing else matters.
• 11:46
  Abbey Sharp: Fair, calories are king.
• 11:48
  Abbey Sharp: Let's be clear about that, but they're not everything.
• 11:52
  Abbey Sharp: And so I think what people have to realize when it comes to that argument is that, you know, the number one determinant of long-term diet retention is appetite management.
• 12:02
  Abbey Sharp: And what's one thing that fiber does really good?
• 12:05
  Abbey Sharp: It keeps us full for very few calories.
• 12:07
  Abbey Sharp: And the interesting thing that that fiber does when it comes to the gut microbiome is that let's say naked, what I call naked carbs or unrefined, like, you know, or sorry, refined kind of low fiber carbohydrates are not necessarily absorbed and digested the same as fiber-rich carbs in the gut.
• 12:26
  Abbey Sharp: So the calories we get in a day is not based on what the package of the food says or what my fitness pal says it has.
• 12:33
  Abbey Sharp: It's actually based on how many of those calories we uniquely can absorb from those food.
• 12:38
  Abbey Sharp: And so when a food is higher in fiber, basically, and also when our gut microbiome is healthier and more vibrant because we are feeding it with fiber, we actually basically absorb fewer calories that we consume.
• 12:53
  Abbey Sharp: So essentially, naked carbs or sugary carbs or refined carbs are absorbed very rapidly in the upper GI tract.
• 12:59
  Abbey Sharp: So we actually absorb more of the available calories in those foods.
• 13:04
  Abbey Sharp: But high fiber carbs travel down to the large intestine where our gut microbes kind of await their feast.
• 13:12
  Abbey Sharp: And we, if we have a vibrant, healthy gut microbiome, it's gonna gobble up more of those available calories in those foods.
• 13:20
  Abbey Sharp: So we end up absorbing fewer calories overall.
• 13:24
  Abbey Sharp: So, in other words, if we consume 100 calories worth of apple juice, for example, which has the fiber strained out of it, or 100 calories worth of a whole apple, we might consume close to the full 100 calories of juice, but hypothetically, we could absorb, let's say, 80 calories worth of the apple.
• 13:43
  Abbey Sharp: And if you're tracking calories and macros to a T, this, you know, people were not accounting for this.
• 13:49
  Abbey Sharp: And there's a really interesting metabolic word study where they were carefully measuring the inputs and outputs via poop.
• 13:56
  Abbey Sharp: And they gave one group a highly processed diet with lots of what I call naked carbs, highly refined carbohydrates, you know, very highly processed foods.
• 14:06
  Abbey Sharp: And the other group got a calorie-matched diet with high fiber whole foods, exact same calories in, and then they tracked basically how many calories were kind of quote unquote lost in the poop.
• 14:19
  Abbey Sharp: The high fiber group lost 200 and 400 calories in their poop compared to the low fiber, kind of highly processed diet group who only lost 100 calories.
• 14:32
  Abbey Sharp: And so this actually can make a real difference, not just in your fullness capacity, so how satiated you feel on your diet, how well your appetite is managed, but even if you were to muscle through the discomfort of feeling hungrier on a lower fiber diet, you're actually just absorbing more of those calories.
• 14:52
  Abbey Sharp: And so this is one of the unique ways that fiber plays a role in weight management.
• 14:57
  Abbey Sharp: It's really fascinating.
• 14:59
  Philip Pape: I'm glad you talked about that because both protein and fiber have these unique elements where simply jacking them up to some sufficient, I'm gonna say sufficient.
• 15:07
  Philip Pape: People are way woefully under malnourished on these, can help with all these other things, including your intake, just ad libitum, as they say, right?
• 15:15
  Philip Pape: Just like spontaneously.
• 15:16
  Philip Pape: And the fiber thing's interesting, right?
• 15:18
  Philip Pape: So people listen up because like that is a game changer.
• 15:21
  Philip Pape: And actually, Abby's whole philosophy here is based on the idea of making these simple changes so you don't have to, you don't even have to track macros and calories, although I like I love them as a lagging indicator at least to see what's happening when you do this.
• 15:33
  Philip Pape: For sure.
• 15:34
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 15:34
  Abbey Sharp: And there's just such interesting, like, this is exactly that the philosophy is like, how can we make this effortless and intuitive?
• 15:40
  Abbey Sharp: So that exactly these calorie deficits are essentially happening spontaneously.
• 15:45
  Abbey Sharp: And there was one study that found that when folks went from a diet of 10 to 15% of their total calories from protein, which is the standard North American diet, when they basically doubled that to be 20 to 30% of their total calories from protein, they saw a three-fold bump in fat loss.
• 16:03
  Abbey Sharp: And another study that found that going from 15 to 30%, they spontaneously, effortlessly just slashed 400 calories.
• 16:10
  Abbey Sharp: They weren't even thinking about it.
• 16:11
  Abbey Sharp: Not even like, oh, I'm on a diet, which again triggers that scarcity mentality.
• 16:16
  Abbey Sharp: They just did this ad libidin.
• 16:18
  Abbey Sharp: And then with the fiber, similar kind of outcome, simply adding 14 grams of fiber to their day just naturally slashed 10% of their calories without trying.
• 16:28
  Abbey Sharp: So this is the magic of thinking about adding, not, oh, I'm on a diet, can't eat this, have to cut this out.
• 16:36
  Abbey Sharp: It really does make a difference.
• 16:38
  Philip Pape: It does.
• 16:38
  Philip Pape: It does.
• 16:38
  Philip Pape: Okay, so here's the interesting thing.
• 16:40
  Philip Pape: You mentioned psychology and physiology.
• 16:42
  Philip Pape: And I've always thought the interplay between the two is fascinating because there's definitely a bi-directionality going on there.
• 16:49
  Philip Pape: And some people are more affected by one or the other more than others.
• 16:54
  Philip Pape: Like when we look at the weight loss drugs now and you look at food noise, which is something you talk about, you know, you talk about it as this like all-consuming, inescapable, debilitating racket in the brain that could only be quieted temporarily with food.
• 17:09
  Philip Pape: But then I believe you go on to connect some of these principles of eating and food choice with the ability to reduce the food noise as opposed to some psychological or genetic or brain-related solution or some exotic thing.
• 17:22
  Philip Pape: Does that make sense?
• 17:24
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 17:24
  Abbey Sharp: I mean, the really like when we are in a state of of restriction, just food becomes more salient and more, and so the food noise will ramp up.
• 17:34
  Abbey Sharp: This is, we have tons of evidence that, you know, one of the biggest predictors of a binge or really over-consuming food is restriction.
• 17:43
  Abbey Sharp: We put ourselves in that state of scarcity mentality.
• 17:45
  Abbey Sharp: I can't eat this.
• 17:46
  Abbey Sharp: Oh, I shouldn't have had that.
• 17:47
  Abbey Sharp: That food noise is gets louder and louder.
• 17:51
  Abbey Sharp: And I mean, yes, we do have growing evidence that there are some folks who may just biologically or neurologically experience food noise even when they're not restricting.
• 18:02
  Abbey Sharp: But again, for the for the average bear who is probably listening to this podcast, that food noise and those incessant food cravings are coming from a history or current state of deprivation.
• 18:15
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Philip Pape: I think in one of your recent podcasts, you talked specifically about food noise, and you mentioned just the underfueling and the malnutrition and the deprivation and under-eating causes it.
• 18:26
  Philip Pape: And it what's interesting is I could see someone who's gained a lot of weight or is overweight saying, How's that possible when I've been gaining weight all these years?
• 18:34
  Philip Pape: Like, what would you tell somebody in that category?
• 18:36
  Philip Pape: Who has just been consistent gaining weight?
• 18:38
  Philip Pape: The vast majority of people who are obese and maybe consider GOP1 drugs and they have food noise, but and then they hear, oh, it's because you're malnutrition or under eating.
• 18:47
  Philip Pape: And they're like, How's that possible?
• 18:49
  Philip Pape: Because I'm I've been gaining weight.
• 18:50
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 18:52
  Abbey Sharp: And you know what?
• 18:53
  Abbey Sharp: A lot of the times we are gaining weight.
• 18:55
  Abbey Sharp: And again, like I don't want to pigeonhole people because there are, like I said, a lot of folks that we've now discovered there are some genetic predispositions, some specific, you know, gene pathways that may predispose people to over, you know, overwhelming food noise.
• 19:10
  Abbey Sharp: Having said that, a lot of folks who are finding themselves kind of gaining weight over the years have been essentially on these kind of crash diets on and off, on and off.
• 19:20
  Abbey Sharp: And with each kick of the can, you know, chances are we're gonna see a little decline in metabolism each time.
• 19:27
  Abbey Sharp: And we've probably lost some muscle mass because let's be honest, most of these crash diets are not, they're not like thinking about, oh, I've got to be, you know, go low and slow, I've got to make sure that I'm getting enough protein.
• 19:38
  Abbey Sharp: They're just like, how do I lose weight as quickly as I possibly can?
• 19:41
  Abbey Sharp: Once we lose that muscle, very hard to get it back.
• 19:44
  Abbey Sharp: Muscle burns three times as many calories at rest compared to fat.
• 19:48
  Abbey Sharp: So our metabolism is going to slow down each time.
• 19:53
  Abbey Sharp: And so it becomes harder and harder to keep the weight off and basically kind of find a way of eating that is actually something that they can stick to long term.
• 20:03
  Abbey Sharp: And that's really what I'm trying to shift for folks is getting out of that.
• 20:07
  Abbey Sharp: Oh, I need to cut out all the things, which let's be honest, most of us cannot stick to again, because that's scarce mentality.
• 20:15
  Abbey Sharp: And find a way of eating that is sustainable long term.
• 20:19
  Abbey Sharp: And so that is one of the kind of common pitfalls and cycles that I see people get into and get stuck in.
• 20:27
  Abbey Sharp: And we're really trying to unlearn that now with this gentle kind of additive framework of the hunger crushing combo.
• 20:33
  Philip Pape: Yeah, thank you for clarifying that.
• 20:35
  Philip Pape: There's a seeming contradiction that isn't really a contradiction when you look at the yo-yo pattern.
• 20:41
  Philip Pape: You look at body fat overshooting, like you said, you're gonna lose muscle, gain fat, lose muscle, gain fat.
• 20:46
  Philip Pape: There's the fact that you probably never even let your body recover out of these diets.
• 20:49
  Philip Pape: Exactly.
• 20:49
  Philip Pape: Like so your metabolism is suppressed and and all of those things.
• 20:52
  Philip Pape: So now if you can shift to the protein and the fiber and the healthy fats, like you said, and then even including the naked carbs for fun, like you said, for to enjoy your food, balance is really important.
• 21:04
  Philip Pape: So, what about those naked carbs?
• 21:06
  Philip Pape: Because there's the people who use the word carbs kind of blanket, right?
• 21:10
  Philip Pape: Carbs, donuts are carbs, pizza is carbs.
• 21:13
  Philip Pape: I'm like, no, those aren't carbs, those are carbs and fats.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: But even you make a distinction between naked or refined carbs and the high fiber carbs, like you just mentioned.
• 21:21
  Philip Pape: Where is the place for naked carbs?
• 21:24
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Abbey Sharp: I think it's really important that, you know, part of the reason for the hunger crush and combo method being so successful for folks is because we are doing away with this kind of black and white, good, bad, like, you know, off the diet, on the diet.
• 21:38
  Abbey Sharp: It's again, we are getting out of that obsession with food needing to be put into these dichotomous categories as this is a food that I'm allowed to eat.
• 21:48
  Abbey Sharp: This is not food I'm not allowed to eat.
• 21:50
  Abbey Sharp: And so, you know, I'll kind of give you a little bit backstory on how this was born.
• 21:54
  Abbey Sharp: But essentially, when I was in my late teens, I was struggling with an eating disorder or withhrexia, kind of basically clean.
• 21:59
  Abbey Sharp: Eating taken to an extreme.
• 22:01
  Abbey Sharp: And as part of my recovery, I was basically putting myself through exposure therapy.
• 22:06
  Abbey Sharp: And my kind of fear food naked carb was like sugary cereal, like frosted flakes, and you know, lucky charms.
• 22:14
  Abbey Sharp: Lucky charms.
• 22:15
  Abbey Sharp: I can name them all.
• 22:16
  Abbey Sharp: I grew up in a lot of them, right?
• 22:18
  Abbey Sharp: Like, so if I had them in the house, I was going to just binge that whole box, like in a flash.
• 22:23
  Abbey Sharp: And then so I started to just allow myself to eat a whole bowl of Lucky Charms by itself, naked carbs in the birthday suit, like and just see how that felt.
• 22:33
  Abbey Sharp: Very, very quickly, I it kind of lost its allure, it lost its power over me.
• 22:37
  Abbey Sharp: It was no longer something that I was like, oh, I like, you know, I needed to binge on because I was just like, this is just a normal food.
• 22:44
  Abbey Sharp: And then I was starting to listen to how my body was responding to that big bowl of naked carbs.
• 22:49
  Abbey Sharp: I was hungry again soon after, obviously, because A, they're not very, very satiating.
• 22:54
  Abbey Sharp: My blood sugar was spiking, crashing, and I was looking for another sugary quick fix.
• 22:59
  Abbey Sharp: So I started to realize, okay, I'm not gonna put the sugary carbs, the cereal on the no-no list again because we know where that landed me.
• 23:06
  Abbey Sharp: I'm going to dress them up and I'm gonna start with protein.
• 23:11
  Abbey Sharp: I've got a bowl of Greek yogurt.
• 23:12
  Abbey Sharp: Okay, protein there.
• 23:14
  Abbey Sharp: I'm gonna add some fiber, some berries on top.
• 23:16
  Abbey Sharp: Cool.
• 23:17
  Abbey Sharp: I'm now gonna add maybe some seeds or some, you know, a little bit of sprinkling of almonds or some hemp parts.
• 23:23
  Abbey Sharp: That's my healthy fats.
• 23:24
  Abbey Sharp: Then I'm just gonna add a little handful of the lucky charms on top.
• 23:27
  Abbey Sharp: So I'm no longer gonna allow myself to get into that state of scarcity mentality, but I'm anchoring those sugary carbs, those naked carbs with the hunger-crushing compounds.
• 23:38
  Abbey Sharp: That is gonna keep me fuller longer.
• 23:40
  Abbey Sharp: It's going to stabilize my blood sugar.
• 23:42
  Abbey Sharp: So I am not riding high, crashing down, and then looking, you know, for a donut basically an hour later.
• 23:48
  Abbey Sharp: It is going to completely get rid of that food noise and those cravings because I have the sugary food that I like obsessed about basically on my plate already.
• 23:59
  Abbey Sharp: It's not on the bad foods list.
• 24:01
  Abbey Sharp: It's not on the off-limits list.
• 24:02
  Abbey Sharp: I'm eating it regularly.
• 24:04
  Abbey Sharp: And that alone helps me stick to the plan long term.
• 24:10
  Philip Pape: I love that.
• 24:10
  Philip Pape: So great strategy.
• 24:12
  Philip Pape: I really love that because it's it's flexible, but it's not not only flexible, it's intentionally including the thing, which is important because a lot of people don't talk about that.
• 24:21
  Philip Pape: So, okay, given all of that, a lot of this sounds like food selection and plate construction.
• 24:28
  Philip Pape: What about tracking these things?
• 24:29
  Philip Pape: What are your thoughts on tracking and the different flavors of that?
• 24:34
  Philip Pape: Because there's like calorie counting, there's apps, there's like general awareness.
• 24:38
  Philip Pape: Like, where are you on that spectrum?
• 24:40
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 24:41
  Abbey Sharp: Listen, I think like tracking macros or calories, like it's really just one tool in the toolbox.
• 24:46
  Abbey Sharp: And ultimately it can be very helpful for some folks, but it can also be a slippery slope.
• 24:50
  Abbey Sharp: So I think it's very helpful when it's used more as like a teaching tool to really help you learn what is in your food, like help you build some general awareness to inform your day-to-day meal planning.
• 25:03
  Abbey Sharp: And also ultimately, it needs to feel like neutral and flexible and not obsessive.
• 25:08
  Abbey Sharp: So I think it's it's it can be helpful to combine it with like food journaling to help you in a non-judgmentally, like very objective way to collect data on how foods make you feel.
• 25:19
  Abbey Sharp: So, kind of like what I just spoke about, where I was like basically eating bowls of lucky charms.
• 25:25
  Abbey Sharp: I didn't track the calories or the macros in that because I just assumed, okay, that's just pure naked carbs.
• 25:31
  Abbey Sharp: But I was able to very quickly collect data objectively without judgment.
• 25:36
  Abbey Sharp: And this is the important part without judgment.
• 25:38
  Abbey Sharp: Okay, I don't feel great when I just eat the lucky charms on its own.
• 25:44
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, for example, you could be tracking to see, okay, when I have the bagel and cream cheese and it's only got like 10 grams of protein, maybe I feel a little lethargic after my workout.
• 25:54
  Abbey Sharp: But when I add in like a Greek yogurt cup on the go, I'm in a rush, I feel better.
• 26:00
  Abbey Sharp: My recovery feels easier.
• 26:02
  Abbey Sharp: And actually, with the hunger crushing combo method in the book, I have a very comprehensive kind of cheat sheet of different protein and fiber and healthy, fat-rich foods and they're vert, they're kind of visual portion sizes to help people basically meet some of the meal recommendations that I they share in the book for these kind of macro recommendations.
• 26:24
  Abbey Sharp: Where I think it becomes more counterintuitive or a slippery slope is when it's overriding your innate body wisdom, just to kind of meet whatever, you know, arbitrary numbers that were spit out by your like My FitnessPal or whatever app you're using.
• 26:38
  Abbey Sharp: And I know we talked about in a moment ago about like basically the discrepancy in calorie absorption, which could easily affect your just like perfectly calculated calorie deficit that you figured out on your My FitnessPal calculator.
• 26:52
  Abbey Sharp: But there's all a lot of other reasons why just like these meticulous, inflexible calorie counting can be just wildly inaccurate.
• 26:59
  Abbey Sharp: So, for example, food manufacturers are legally allowed to be off on their package numbers by 20%.
• 27:05
  Abbey Sharp: So that means if you think you are eating a 500-calorie meal, you could actually be eating a 600-calorie meal.
• 27:13
  Abbey Sharp: And over time, this could easily undo the calorie deficit that you just like so perfectly thought you were crafting.
• 27:19
  Abbey Sharp: So I think that's where things become counterintuitive and counterproductive and not actually helpful when you're going against what your body is telling you, just so that you can, you know, meet the macros on your app.
• 27:32
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that sounds a lot like my thinking has evolved as well over the years, right?
• 27:35
  Philip Pape: Like I still, so I used to do that macros, if if it's your macros, like as a leading indicator, and then realize, hey, you know, this is it's a great lagging indicator.
• 27:44
  Philip Pape: Like you do the things, you listen to your body, your biofeedback, which I love, and there's different types of biofeedback.
• 27:49
  Philip Pape: So we to kind of put it all together, now we have specific populations who listen to this show.
• 27:55
  Philip Pape: And I know in your book you've talked about some slight nudges in different maybe ratios or amounts of these compounds, like for perimenopausal women.
• 28:05
  Philip Pape: What's the logic behind shifting the amounts for people?
• 28:09
  Philip Pape: Like, how would people even know what the right amount is, besides just listening to their body, which might be enough?
• 28:14
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 28:14
  Abbey Sharp: And I mean, ultimately, that that is the that is you should be your number one indicator, your body.
• 28:21
  Abbey Sharp: Because yeah, I can communicate what the data says is best practices, which is what I do in the book, because I believe we I don't censor science and I believe in communicating, you know, evidence-based care.
• 28:32
  Abbey Sharp: But at the end of the day, like we could be wildly off based on what the data tells us is the best kind of, you know, amount of protein per kilogram of body weight for you to get the best results for you.
• 28:46
  Abbey Sharp: So I want that to be kind of like top of mind.
• 28:49
  Abbey Sharp: This is, these are like the guidelines that if you are working with a registered dietitian, that they would start with and then we would tweak based on what we see in terms of what's going on with your results.
• 29:00
  Abbey Sharp: So I think, you know, just to give you some examples, like weight loss.
• 29:04
  Abbey Sharp: Okay.
• 29:05
  Abbey Sharp: This is probably a lot of folks who are trying to specifically lose fat.
• 29:09
  Abbey Sharp: I always like to kind of clarify that because we don't, I know we kind of just like colloquially we say weight loss, but really we're talking about fat loss because I don't want you to lose your muscle.
• 29:18
  Abbey Sharp: I don't want you to lose your bone.
• 29:20
  Abbey Sharp: And losing water is just like whatever, useless, to be honest.
• 29:24
  Abbey Sharp: It just motivates you for a day and then it's over, and then you feel like you've plateaued.
• 29:28
  Abbey Sharp: So weight loss, and so you know, when we look at the best practices in the data, it's showing between 1.2 to 1.8 grams per kilogram of body weight when you're in a calorie deficit.
• 29:40
  Abbey Sharp: And the reason for that, like protein is really just like the the king of this entirety hierarchy.
• 29:46
  Abbey Sharp: What I like people to focus on when it comes to weight loss mostly is the protein and the fiber piece.
• 29:52
  Abbey Sharp: Protein because we need to protect metabolic muscle mass when we are in a calorie deficit.
• 29:57
  Abbey Sharp: Fiber because it offers the best calorie bag for a caloric buck, the lowest calorie density.
• 30:02
  Abbey Sharp: When it comes to diabetes, often there's also kind of a fat loss element to that as well, right?
• 30:09
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, a lot of folks who have diabetes, not all, but a lot of folks are also trying to maintain or manage their weight and prevent excess fat gain because we know that that can play into insulin resistance and blood sugar management.
• 30:24
  Abbey Sharp: So it can be roughly the same amount, but fiber is really important when it comes to diabetes management because fiber can, you know, of course, slows down the absorption of carbohydrates, helps to reduce the glycemic load of the foods that you're consuming.
• 30:40
  Abbey Sharp: So I really do urge folks that are managing, you know, insulin resistance, diabetes, PCOS, make sure you're really thinking about fiber because only 10% of North Americans are getting enough fiber, period.
• 30:52
  Abbey Sharp: Meaning most of the people listening right now are not getting enough fiber.
• 30:57
  Abbey Sharp: And I don't really want to promote you just eating like fiber bars.
• 31:03
  Abbey Sharp: For the same reason I don't want to like, yeah, like the same reason I don't want you to like just focus on getting like those like protein enriched snacks, because yeah, and a pinch of fiber bar can be fine, but a lot of the fibers that are being added to these bars are a very bloating, like hella bloating.
• 31:21
  Abbey Sharp: And they're not going to offer you the whole food matrix of whole food fiber-rich plants, which come packaged with all of these different antioxidants, micronutrients that can support overall health, but also offer variety of different types of fiber to support satiety, blood sugar management, gut health, you know, all of those kinds of benefits.
• 31:45
  Abbey Sharp: Oh, muscle gain, that's another one.
• 31:47
  Abbey Sharp: Obviously, with muscle gaining, like there's often an element of fat loss, but you need more calories when you are trying to gain muscle.
• 31:55
  Abbey Sharp: So while you might have a slightly higher, you know, gram per kilogram for protein, for example, maybe up to 2.2 grams per kilogram, you know, your overall calories are higher.
• 32:08
  Abbey Sharp: And so you might actually have a smaller percentage of total calories, right?
• 32:13
  Abbey Sharp: Coming from protein compared to fat loss, because you also need more carbs.
• 32:18
  Abbey Sharp: You also want to get those carbohydrates in there as well.
• 32:21
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, and then fat, of course, can take a bit of a backseat when it comes to muscle gain.
• 32:25
  Philip Pape: So, a couple of really great things we should dial in on.
• 32:28
  Philip Pape: First of all, the the percentage of protein, I always think about that and laugh about it because when you say, hey, increase your protein, people, I can't get that much, right?
• 32:35
  Philip Pape: You've heard women say, I can't get 120 grams of problems.
• 32:37
  Philip Pape: Are you kidding me?
• 32:38
  Philip Pape: Until you do it and you get used to it and you realize it's no big deal.
• 32:40
  Philip Pape: But as a percentage of calories, you're right, it's only 20%.
• 32:43
  Philip Pape: You've gone from 10 to 20.
• 32:45
  Philip Pape: So it's not like a high protein, it's like adequate protein.
• 32:48
  Philip Pape: It really is.
• 32:49
  Philip Pape: It really is.
• 32:50
  Philip Pape: And then when you're in fat loss, it tends to be a much higher percentage of your calories, like 30, 40, even 50, depending.
• 32:56
  Philip Pape: But that's an important point.
• 32:58
  Philip Pape: Now, the fiber types, you said something really important is the types of fiber.
• 33:03
  Philip Pape: So I joked about fiber tortillas because I do occasionally buy these like tortillas because I like tortillas and I might as well get the ones that have extra fiber.
• 33:11
  Philip Pape: But you don't want to rely on that.
• 33:13
  Philip Pape: And like you said, there are not just the types of, or not just the compounds that are in those fruits, many of which aren't on labels, right?
• 33:19
  Philip Pape: You don't see on a nutrition label everything chemically that's in the thing, but also like polyphenols or whatever, but also the types.
• 33:27
  Philip Pape: And we've had some gut experts on like actual scientists, not the influencers, who talk about just like you literally don't need a fiber supplement or any like a seed or one of those types of probiotics either, if you're getting enough different types of different fruits.
• 33:42
  Philip Pape: Like, for example, try to eat different colors and types of apples, different breeds.
• 33:46
  Philip Pape: So you kind of alluded to that.
• 33:48
  Philip Pape: I don't know.
• 33:48
  Philip Pape: Do you talk about that in the book?
• 33:50
  Abbey Sharp: I do.
• 33:51
  Abbey Sharp: I in detail actually, because that is one of the benefits of the hunger crushing combo method again.
• 33:56
  Abbey Sharp: Because again, like most of these diets out there, they overcomplicate nutrition, where you now have to think about did I get enough of this micronutrient?
• 34:05
  Abbey Sharp: Did I get enough of this macro?
• 34:07
  Abbey Sharp: Did I get a did I cut this food out?
• 34:09
  Abbey Sharp: Did I cut that food out?
• 34:10
  Abbey Sharp: No, you're really only thinking about these three things: the fiber protein, healthy fats.
• 34:14
  Abbey Sharp: And with those foods comes the whole food matrix, including when we are getting a variety of plant-based foods through plant-based proteins and also fiber-rich fruits and vegetables, you know, nuts, seeds, all of the kinds of foods that the Hunger Crush and Camo method promotes, we are going to, by default, get in a variety of different fiber types.
• 34:39
  Abbey Sharp: And so we need to get a variety of fibers in our diet from different types of foods through, you know, whole grains, through nuts, through seeds, through fruits, through vegetables, different types of fruits, different types of vegetables.
• 34:52
  Abbey Sharp: All of those have a very unique kind of fingerprint of nutrients.
• 34:57
  Abbey Sharp: And when we're getting a variety, our gut is going to get a variety.
• 35:01
  Abbey Sharp: And for our for us to have a vibrant, varied gut microbiome, we need to have a varied diet of these plant-based foods.
• 35:11
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 35:11
  Philip Pape: So one other thing you mentioned.
• 35:12
  Philip Pape: You mentioned muscle gain, and that got me thinking about just recovery and gaining in general.
• 35:17
  Philip Pape: So one of the micro problems that people experience a lot when trying to recover from all these years of dieting is a fear of weight gain, which implies that they care about the scale, which is the fat loss versus weight loss thing.
• 35:28
  Philip Pape: Like maybe you shouldn't be focusing on the scale.
• 35:30
  Philip Pape: Yep.
• 35:31
  Philip Pape: But, you know, and you also mentioned water is part of your lean mass, right?
• 35:34
  Philip Pape: You've got your organs and your bone and your water and your muscle.
• 35:37
  Philip Pape: So you're going to gain some weight potentially when you go through this process.
• 35:41
  Philip Pape: How do you deal with that problem that people have?
• 35:44
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah, I think that, you know, low and slow is always key here.
• 35:48
  Abbey Sharp: I mean, Afghan, there's definitely situations where we can't afford to go slow.
• 35:52
  Abbey Sharp: But I think that being kind to your body and just trust, trusting the process.
• 35:57
  Abbey Sharp: I know it can be really hard and scary, but know that you are actually trying to rebuild your metabolism, which is going to serve you long term, right?
• 36:07
  Abbey Sharp: Muscle and bone is so critical to longevity.
• 36:11
  Abbey Sharp: I know we're we're having this like longevity conversation moment, which is all like situated around peptides and these like supplement stacks.
• 36:20
  Abbey Sharp: I'm like, babe, longevity comes down to muscle and bone.
• 36:24
  Abbey Sharp: Lift weights.
• 36:25
  Abbey Sharp: That is really the longevity secret sauce here.
• 36:29
  Abbey Sharp: And so, you know, we need to be investing in not just what our body looks like today, but what our body is going to look like and feel like and be able to do most importantly in the long run.
• 36:41
  Abbey Sharp: And so that is going to take some rebuilding.
• 36:44
  Abbey Sharp: And yes, you may, you may gain fat in the in wet in the process of trying to, you know, restore your metabolism, restore your stores, your organs and your muscle and bone and and lean lean tissue, but that is going to, you know, do dividends long term for your health.
• 37:05
  Abbey Sharp: And once you have regained that muscle, which again is going to require you probably needing to eat more calories, like hard stop.
• 37:13
  Abbey Sharp: You can't really like cheat your way around that.
• 37:15
  Abbey Sharp: Once you've regained that muscle, that is then going to increase your metabolism.
• 37:20
  Abbey Sharp: Again, I mentioned earlier it burns three times as many calories at rest compared to fat, which again is going to help with long-term body composition goals.
• 37:29
  Philip Pape: Yep.
• 37:29
  Philip Pape: We need to hammer that message home over and over again.
• 37:32
  Philip Pape: And it's not that we're saying you have to bulk or you have to be in a large surplus.
• 37:36
  Philip Pape: In fact, the evidence has become a little more conservative on that to be able to still gain a ton of muscle, but you do have to be fed and fueled and do all the things you're saying.
• 37:45
  Philip Pape: So, but let's say we do want to go into a a little bit of a bigger surplus.
• 37:49
  Philip Pape: We alluded to it briefly.
• 37:50
  Philip Pape: It's more calories.
• 37:52
  Philip Pape: And I'm guessing that you're going to push us to for more density, more calorie density in some way, perhaps.
• 37:57
  Philip Pape: Maybe more naked carbs or more fats and stuff like that.
• 38:01
  Philip Pape: What are your tactics there?
• 38:03
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah, I mean, and that's the really cool thing about the hunger crushing comma method is that it can be applied to any goal at any time in any stage of life.
• 38:12
  Abbey Sharp: And so, yeah, when we are in a kind of more kind of bulking situation, we're going to need more carbohydrates for sure, especially compared to the kind of more weight loss or fat loss goals.
• 38:24
  Abbey Sharp: And so, you know, carbohydrates could be 45 to 65% of total calories.
• 38:29
  Abbey Sharp: We're going to be bumping up those calories.
• 38:31
  Abbey Sharp: We're going to be choosing more, you know, perhaps fat-rich protein sources.
• 38:37
  Abbey Sharp: Protein's going to be important, of course, if we're trying to gain muscle, but we can have more fats, less the tiny bang in some cases for our caloric buck because we need less hunger crushing.
• 38:47
  Abbey Sharp: Right.
• 38:48
  Abbey Sharp: A little less hunger crushing.
• 38:49
  Abbey Sharp: And but we are still utilizing the bones of this framework, knowing that this is the key to getting the best nutrient bang for our caloric buck as well.
• 39:01
  Abbey Sharp: So, really important that, you know, but my goal is to help people reach their goals in the healthiest, safest way possible.
• 39:08
  Abbey Sharp: And that's why this method really does work for so many people, because it teaches them the tools for long-term, not just the in like the immediate goal or body kind of composition that they want right now.
• 39:23
  Philip Pape: That's the key.
• 39:23
  Philip Pape: And what I take from that is like it's your scaling up and down and you're shifting between them, between this flexible framework.
• 39:29
  Philip Pape: Dirty bulks, like I did one or two in my life, and they're kind of fun, but you actually do feel it like when you're eating not great food, like you said, your body's telling you, and you have a little more resilience against it because you're gaining, but you also can feel so I like that you said that.
• 39:43
  Philip Pape: Now, there we have the opposite problem in the GLP1 community where the hunger is suppressed chemically, and it often comes through a different mechanism than just, I mean, GLP one is obviously a gut hormone, but it also affects the brain and the food noise aspect of it.
• 40:00
  Philip Pape: And so one of the problems I see is when people want to change their lifestyle and want to eat better, it's hard almost because now they're trying to eat more volume, but they can't.
• 40:09
  Philip Pape: And also for some people on GLP1s, they re find processed foods kind of revolting, which I guess is a good thing, but then when they get off of it, a lot of that reverts.
• 40:19
  Philip Pape: So how do you handle that population?
• 40:22
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Abbey Sharp: There is unfortunately this thought, like, oh, if I'm on a if as long as I'm on a GLP one, then like nutrition doesn't really matter.
• 40:28
  Abbey Sharp: But in fact, it actually matters more than ever.
• 40:31
  Abbey Sharp: And because every bite counts.
• 40:34
  Abbey Sharp: And this is what I talk about in the book is that, you know, we have to maximize nutrition at a time when our appetite is at its lowest and we're like not interested in food and nutrition, but we have to think harder about it.
• 40:48
  Abbey Sharp: And the reality is that, you know, GLP ones, while all folks are on it, if you come off, you know, the research shows that, you know, people regain about two-thirds of the weight back.
• 40:58
  Abbey Sharp: And so we have to learn the skills while we are on these medications.
• 41:03
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, this is again where protein becomes king in small, regular, consistent doses.
• 41:10
  Abbey Sharp: If we're really struggling with our appetite, eating a mountainous salad with like zero calories, it's not gonna get us the nutrients that we need because we actually see malnutrition on these medications, where up to 40% of the weight loss is coming from lean tissue, which is not what we want.
• 41:28
  Abbey Sharp: And so I think it's really important, again, to think about protein when we're choosing fiber-rich carbs, which is very important, not only for overall gut health, for satiety management, for blood sugar management, but also for dealing with some of the side effects of GLP1s like constipation and bloating.
• 41:45
  Abbey Sharp: We wanna be choosing those that are offering the best nutrient bang for a caloric bug.
• 41:50
  Abbey Sharp: So think about avocado, for example, which is gonna get you fiber, but it's also gonna get you some healthy fats, which is very important.
• 41:57
  Abbey Sharp: We need healthy fats still in our diet for hormonal regulation.
• 42:00
  Abbey Sharp: Thinking about things like sweet potatoes, for example, which again, we're not pop, we're probably not gonna be able to eat a lot, a big portion, but it's still gonna give us some carbohydrates, some extra nutrients, the calories that we still need to not be malnourished, and also those fiber, the fiber in there.
• 42:16
  Abbey Sharp: So, you know, I think people like to just assume that, oh, nutrition doesn't matter.
• 42:23
  Abbey Sharp: I can just live off as few calories as humanly possible and just ride this low appetite so I can drop those, those, that weight fast, it will backfire.
• 42:33
  Abbey Sharp: And so again, low and slow is actually important here, as long as, you know, work with your doctor, of course.
• 42:39
  Abbey Sharp: But if you're finding that you physically do not have an appetite to eat, you know, if you're and you're eating 800 calories, you are not gonna meet your nutrient needs hardst.
• 42:48
  Abbey Sharp: You're not gonna meet your protein needs.
• 42:50
  Abbey Sharp: And so it might be worth talking to your doctor about, you know, adjusting dosage so that you can still meet those base core needs.
• 42:57
  Philip Pape: And sometimes that's a good problem to have if it's a sign that you are shifting that diet.
• 43:01
  Philip Pape: And of course, you the implication of what you said, you've got to be lifting weights too.
• 43:04
  Philip Pape: I mean, I just almost at this point, it's implied when I talk on this show, but like I forget there's new listeners tuning in.
• 43:11
  Philip Pape: I know.
• 43:11
  Philip Pape: I've 100% like, no, no, you gotta be lifting weights because the 40% you just talked about muscle loss is just because you're not lifting and you're going at this rapid rate of loss.
• 43:20
  Philip Pape: So yeah, it's an interesting one.
• 43:21
  Philip Pape: What about the brain receptors for pleasure reward?
• 43:24
  Philip Pape: And I know there's a lot of stuff that's out, the jury's still out on addiction and those aspects because I had a guy on the show, Jamie Seltzer, he was like almost 700 pounds, he's now under 300 pounds.
• 43:35
  Philip Pape: He did it through GLP ones and lifting weights and changing his nutrition at the same time.
• 43:40
  Philip Pape: But he feels like he will always be on those because of how crazy the food noise was and and like a brain related thing.
• 43:47
  Philip Pape: When we introduce fiber and the variety and protein and all this, is there a correlation with that uh that kind of overrides those signals?
• 43:55
  Philip Pape: The the retrains your brain with the the the receptors for.
• 43:59
  Philip Pape: Pleasure, reward, you know, the dopamine and all that stuff.
• 44:03
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah.
• 44:03
  Abbey Sharp: So the amazing thing is that these nutrients, I mean, for protein, for example, we have some good evidence showing that it does actually reduce food cravings, for example, later on in the day.
• 44:14
  Abbey Sharp: You have a protein-rich breakfast, you just actually have less food noise, less food cravings later on in the day.
• 44:21
  Abbey Sharp: And protein does boost GLP1, which is the hormone that we're talking about, that people are putting into their bodies as a injection.
• 44:29
  Abbey Sharp: And so, yeah, like there's no one should ever be making a claim that diet is some kind of dupe for a powerful, you know, anti-obesity medication like a GLP1 receptor agonist.
• 44:42
  Abbey Sharp: However, when we are overlapping these things, especially as we are titrating down, coming off these medications, we need to utilize the power of the hunger crushing combo, fiber protein healthy fats, which do have impacts on our satiety hormones.
• 45:00
  Abbey Sharp: Certainly not to the degree of a medication, but they absolutely do help.
• 45:06
  Abbey Sharp: And so that is really critical.
• 45:09
  Abbey Sharp: These are skills that are critical to learn while you are on these medications.
• 45:13
  Abbey Sharp: So that as you come off them, these are already habit stacked, as this is the way I eat.
• 45:19
  Philip Pape: I'm glad you called them skills because that's what they are.
• 45:21
  Philip Pape: They take, they take time and effort, but you build them over time and they become skills for life.
• 45:26
  Philip Pape: You know, I get a lot of books from people who come on the show, but this is one of one of my favorites so far because honestly, Abby and I are highly aligned, and I would definitely get the hunger-crushing combo because there's a lot of stuff we didn't cover in here.
• 45:37
  Philip Pape: There's supplements, there's all the specifics about the foods.
• 45:40
  Philip Pape: If you go to the menus in the back or even the lists of foods, it's all the delicious things you want to eat anyway, but it just gives you those ideas.
• 45:48
  Philip Pape: So given that, and given today's context, Abby, is there anything else you want me to ask you or anything I should have asked that you want to bring up before we wrap up?
• 45:56
  Abbey Sharp: Oh, uh, you know what?
• 45:58
  Abbey Sharp: Like there's a lot of overlapping goals.
• 46:00
  Abbey Sharp: And the in the book, The Hunger Christian, Calma Method, we have chapters for weight loss, for blood sugar management, for paramenopause and menopause, for sports nutrition goals, and just also like feeding a family and how you can apply this framework for, I'm sure a lot of your listeners are women with kids, and they themselves, who may be on a fat loss or a weight loss or a body recomp journey, are also thinking, okay, how do I raise my kids in a way that's not gonna mess them up in this diet culture ridden world?
• 46:29
  Abbey Sharp: While I am also trying to make peace with my body or even change my body in some kind of way.
• 46:35
  Abbey Sharp: And so I do offer a lot of practical advice on that as well, because we are living and breathing in this skinny talk, you know, pro, you know, eat as little as possible era.
• 46:46
  Abbey Sharp: And it's just gonna become harder and harder to be able to make sense of it all.
• 46:51
  Abbey Sharp: But this is such a bible that allows people to learn those skills and then also pass those skills on to their kids if they have them.
• 46:59
  Philip Pape: For sure.
• 47:00
  Philip Pape: I mean, you're a hypocrite, I think, just being frank.
• 47:02
  Philip Pape: If you're a parent who doesn't walk the walk and now you want their kids to learn something else because it's not gonna happen.
• 47:06
  Philip Pape: I have a 12-year-old and 14-year-old daughter, you know, and and again, they see everything, they absorb everything.
• 47:12
  Philip Pape: No judgment on people.
• 47:13
  Philip Pape: It's just just take it, you know, take take up the mantle and do what Abby's suggesting and really try to improve yourself in conjunction with your kids.
• 47:19
  Philip Pape: So, Abby, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 47:22
  Philip Pape: We're gonna point people to the book for sure, but where else do you want them to connect with you?
• 47:26
  Abbey Sharp: Yeah, you can listen to my podcast, Bite Back with Abby Sharp.
• 47:30
  Abbey Sharp: I've also got a YouTube channel, Abby's Kitchen, and I'm on TikTok and Instagram at Abby's Kitchen as well.
• 47:35
  Abbey Sharp: So you can find me in all those places.
• 47:37
  Philip Pape: All right, we're gonna throw all that in the show notes.
• 47:39
  Philip Pape: Thank you so much, Abby, for coming on and sharing your wisdom.
• 47:43
  Philip Pape: I had a really good time just reinforcing, but also learning some new things with our audience together today.
• 47:47
  Philip Pape: So thank you, Abby, for coming on.
• 47:49
  Philip Pape: Thank you so much.