Latest / 8 Years To Live / The Cost of Being the Good Girl
Transcript
- Collen: Every person has a story. Some shape us, some break us, and some help us heal. Join Sisters Kim and Bibi as they explore mental health, trauma, relationships, and personal growth through honest conversations, lived experiences, and professional insights. Because understanding your story can change the way you live it. This is Eight Years to Live. I have gone into a coma. I would just say. Mario Shriver. Yes. Yes. Why do we have so many nicknames for each other? It's a good question. Because medical trauma is one of the most under recognized forms of trauma. Who are you gonna talk to when I die? He's already telling you you've got eight years slip. Hello. ⁓ hello. It's me when are you leaving? Is it really you? WWW. I am at home. I am recording a podcast and I am by myself. WWW. WWW means what are you doing? Who are you with? Where are you at? And I am, I may not get these in order. I'm home. Ruben's downstairs. And I'm also recording a podcast. So we'll just tell the audience I know I was gonna say we'll just tell the audience that we are lazy and efficient all at the same time. So instead of asking what are you doing, who are you with and where are you at, we've just w w to whether in a text, phone call, this is how our we just like to I don't know, make up our own language. So we can ask the audience www. They can think about it. Where are you? Who are you with? What are you doing? This is our daily, sometimes moment to moment question. Exactly. Yep. When Cody first heard me say that, Cody, my husband, when I asked you, what are you doing? Where are you at? Who are with? He looks at me, he's like, I'm not the only one that you drill like that. Now I've shortened it. WWW. Do you say that to him too? No, he'd probably forget. ⁓ that's hilarious. ⁓ So my name is Kim and welcome back, everybody. If you've been following us along, we've been exploring Bibi's story of her medical journey and a little bit into childhood, just kind of trying to make sense of our lives. I am a marriage and family therapist intern, and you are? I am ⁓ Bibi Garcia. I am just a gal getting through life. Yes. Today I wanted to pause a little bit from doing more of the deep dive that we've been doing into your medical history. So people are going to have to continue to listen if they want to hear more about your death sentences that you've gotten throughout your life. And just talk about ⁓ I honestly wanted to be more vulnerable because I have a tendency to put up a front and try to or at least try to appear like I know what I'm doing if I'm in a position of, let's say, authority. So me being in the position of authority here, being the therapist, I was putting so much pressure on myself that I would freeze, right? So we do the countdown right before we start the podcast. And once it would get to one, we'd get to zero, I would just be in go mode. And I would be so stuck reading the notes that I feel that the whole point of us doing this podcast was to have a conversation. And it was starting to turn more into lectures. I don't know. Maybe that's not what it how it came across, but that's kind of how I started. seeing it. And so I just wanted to talk about the freeze response. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sounds like maybe you wanted to seem like it was educational and you wanted people to know that like you and I could be totally wrong. But that you have an education and that you want to help people feel educated, which isn't a bad thing. But I do think I see what you're saying. Like instead of having it be a performance. We just want to let people in, I guess, on our lives and also just be relatable. And instead of like I am a therapist, this is my identity, maybe it just being more like, I am a therapist. I'm also human. And I still struggle with all the things I'm teaching people how to work against or work with. Amen. Amen and amen. So yeah, we can talk about the freeze response. Yeah, ⁓ you said so many good things. I was trying to be the educator and I think yes, that will come as we just have these conversations. And I think a lot of it was I think if I put into perspective, I am fifty and I went to school two years ago and I decided to well, my therapist. we're gonna say pushed me into going to school to be a therapist. And I thought I had to have every everything figured out in this podcast or at least come across like I had everything figured out to be the perfect podcaster. And this is my first time ever doing a podcast. The first time I haven't been a been a therapist for a year. I mean I've been seeing clients when I was in school and now having my own private practice, it will be a year in August. And I was putting so much pressure on myself that I would totally blink when the camera would start rolling. Mm-hmm. It was just so crazy. And I didn't even realize I was doing this until you and I were talking. And I t we I said something like, I've been freezing. And you're like, ⁓ thank God I haven't, because you're you're usually the one that freezes. ⁓ yeah, totally. And so now I thought, why am I freezing? And it just made me think because I'm not being authentic. And I just wanted to kind of rewind a little bit and maybe do a do-over, which I love doing doovers, and starting fresh and having this episode fall more along the lines of the conversations that we actually have. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think that makes sense how you got there. And I think I'm sure your age plays a part in it, which I didn't really think about. Like while I'm fifty, I went to school just two years ago. I should know what I'm talking about. Yeah. I don't know. Could be true. I just put myself in your position. I'd be like, gosh, I say that to myself all the time. I'm forty two and I'm just learning this today. Things that I probably should have learned in preschool. Nevertheless, here we are. So I think that's awesome that you're being ⁓ gracious with yourself in acknowledging this is how I was feeling, this is how I was responding, and you don't have to do that. So that's cool. I think that you are using the practices that you teach. Exactly. I like to therapise myself often. Yes. Yep, therapise away. Therapise me while you're at it. I need it. Yeah, I think one of the things that I realized that I was doing that night that we spoke and I realized that I was freezing, I thought I wanted to go into a shame spiral, honestly, and to think like, ⁓ my gosh, why didn't I figure this out sooner? And I stopped myself because I tell my clients to like battle shame we need to show ourselves compassion and grace and all the things and Collins mentioned this before ⁓ like going to my inner child and sitting with her. Collins, our producer for people that don't know Collins, our producer, has brought this up a couple of times about going to his inner child and you know asking what did his inner child need and how can I provide that for my own inner child. And so I do that now. And I ended up doing it that night because that shame spiral was really wanting to kick in. And I thought, No, well, of course, you know, I want to have this be perfect, or of course I'm freezing. You know, it makes sense. And we get to do doovers. And this gets to show, like you said, that we are human. And if we're human, it provides a freedom. That we don't have to be perfect. We don't have to have it all figured out. And we don't have to perform. That's what I'm taking away. I think performance-based things will tend to come across as unnatural. I only know from experience when I do or say something and I have to get it just right, I'm now performing or I'm creating a task list instead of just speaking like what I know is true. And I think whether you have a formal education or not, you already know half the things you know anyway. I think through experience. So those are things you can like remind yourself, I do know what I'm talking about because I've known this. Now I just have maybe the verbiage for it. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. Egg. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, so thank you for that conversation that we had that day about you saying, you know, I'm not freezing. And I'm like, Well, I am. And then for me, like to be vulnerable for me in that moment look like being able to say, ⁓ my gosh, I am freezing. And I'm freezing because I think that I have to get it right and be perfect. And even just admitting that out loud. years ago I would not have been able to do that l to you, let alone to myself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because I think like for me, being perfect means that I look a certain way. So like you said, I have to perform and that performance has to look a certain way. It's like dance, monkey, dance. Yes, I was just thinking that dance monkey dance. Which is another one of our things we say often because we do tend to be performers. Yeah. If we look the part, we are the part. ⁓ rewind. We cannot be the part if we don't know what we're talking about and we can't fake it till we make it. Which is another thing we've I feel like I've said a lot. Fake it till you make it. Don't fake it till you make it. Mm-hmm. We know what we know. And we can we can trust what we know. Mm-hmm. And work with that. But I think it is important to ⁓ acknowledge that performance based anything is probably like a natural thing to do, especially if you're doing something for the first time. Like we're gonna do this podcast, it has to be perfect. It's gonna be the number one I don't know, maybe it will be, but we don't it's not gonna happen episode one unless our only audience is Colin. And he's not likely Just kidding. I know. We will referen I will reference Colin. People are gonna think he's our imaginary friend, and that's okay. Colin will be making appearances at some point. Yes. Yes. That is so true. Yep. I think Well, you mentioned earlier. ⁓ no, go ahead. Go ahead. No, you go. I was just gonna say I mentioned or you mentioned earlier that you didn't freeze. And I don't know if you said this before we started recording, but that I am typically the one that freezes. And that's so true. That is my go-to coping mechanism, whether freezing, dissociating, I do tend to just like mm-hmm, nod along, shake my head, or not shake, you know, nod along and mm-hmm agree. Even if I have no idea what I'm reading. Like I could be reading the notes and just read them, know what they mean, but not have understanding. Because I'm s in such a hyperaware state of mind. And so I think when you told me that, you said, I'm I've been freezing on camera. I thought, ⁓ I totally get it. That's the first time we recorded, I did that. I immediately looked at the camera and had to do this whole show. I thought, this isn't what we're doing or why we're doing it. And it's easy for me not being the therapist. I've got nothing to prove. You know, I'm the audience here. It's easy for me to be like, yeah, I've done that. I've made that mistake. That's my this is how I cope. ⁓ but I think if I were I know if I were in your shoes, I would do the same thing. But I don't know how far into the podcast it would have taken me to do something about it. I think I would have thought, okay, just keep on track, just make sure next time you do this. You know, go through all the notes, say it this way, use a certain tone. That's not even how we talk to each other. Right. And that's the whole idea. Exactly. Egg. Exactly. Maria Schreiber. Maria Schreiber. Just thinking that. You said something really good where you said, I've got nothing to prove. And I think that's where my phrase was coming in from. I have everything to prove. I need to prove that I'm a good therapist. I ha I need to prove that I know what I'm doing. I need to prove that I'm competent. And just remembering I don't need to prove that because before I would have to prove it like dance monkey dance so that I get love and affection. You know, dance monkey dance so that nobody gets hurt. You know, look, I'm the show and pony, look over here. And I'm gonna keep everybody entertained, and this performance is gonna earn me love growing up in two different ways. And so that has stuck with me. And now that I feel that I need to look perfect, it's it's such an automatic response. I'm so thankful that God was like, you don't need to perform actually. There is nothing to prove. You don't need to do any of that. To be loved. First of all, I am lovable without having to perform and or be the monkey. And That I'm glad that I caught it when I did. And at the same time, I think if somebody would have told ⁓ did you freeze? What does that even mean? What does that even look like? Like you said earlier, I'm frozen because I'm so hyper vi was it vigilant that you said or hyper aware on everybody around you. Like those are two such contradicting things. You're frozen, you're not aware of your inside. But you're hyper aware of everything outside. Yes. Yes. That is so contradictory. I never really thought about that. But I think that is exactly how that's how I tend to show up. Freeze, but make sure everyone else is alive and doing like they're all entertained or have what they need or have what I think they need. And then who's taking care of me? I don't know. Who am I am I a person? And I think we talked about that in a different episode. ⁓ like how I personally said I forget myself. And I think this comes back to it because it is such a heightened awareness on what are the viewers gonna say, or I need to make sure they know this about me, instead of just like, okay, so if you're a mom, a teacher. whatever area of work you do and you're trying to come across as if you know your role exactly, no one's gonna be able to relate with that. Because nobody has it together. So I think if hopefully people that do listen know like, okay, whatever the they're doing, whether a podcast or working, they don't have to perform. Like they they're just living and Playing out what they know in real time. And we want this to be in real time. We don't want it to be too structured. Obviously, we want some structure, but not so much that it's not relatable. Yes. Yeah. I totally agree. I think even like externalizing it. So like for me, like you you you having the realization, I guess, of This these two things are happening. What does that look like in my body? So that night that I was therapizing myself, I had to remind myself, okay, it's my nervous system that's doing this, and my nervous system is thinking me. And that's kind of how I got to the compassion part, because it takes me sometimes a second as I'm starting to spiral to realize, okay, wait a second. My nervous system is trying to protect me and is trying to protect me from the thought. Of I'm unlovable or I'm inherently bad or all these things that are coming up, people will know me, know me and know that I'm not a good therapist. And those are such lies. And so in order for me to get like stop that, it's like, okay, my nervous system is trying to protect me. Okay. And it doesn't have to do that. And I learned that a long time ago. And now I can just stay with myself and not abandon myself, kinda like what you were saying about yourself earlier. Like I don't have to abandon myself. I can admit that I'm frozen on camera or that I do want to try to get it right so that people do book an appointment with me or whatever, you know, see me in a certain way. I think all of that, especially for like a new therapist, let's say that I'm speaking to new therapist, if anybody's listening that's a new therapist, there's so much pressure because you're sitting with the person, you've learned all this stuff, you learning to ask. questions in a certain way to get to the root, all these things happening all at the same time. And then when you don't, it's like, ⁓ my gosh, you know that session sucked and somebody paid to see me. ⁓ my gosh. And then they can start all over. And so I think in this, in these episodes, I didn't want to come across that way. But not being authentic comes across a certain way. And I thought, just like I tell my clients, when my insights match my outsides, I'm going to get what I want. And my answers are saying, be authentic, admit, I don't know what that means, or my mind just left me because I can't think of it. That's I think important for me to vocalize out loud. So just to remind myself that I am human and that's okay. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And I think that's what makes you a good therapist. Because on camera, that's not your like that's not your job. But a therapist is relatable. And even hearing your conversation with another guest, another someone that you've interviewed or just talked to, the way you speak to them, the way you listen, very authentic. I think yes, you are a good therapist. But I think on camera, it's more like, well, I have to prove it. Yes. Which I get. I think it it makes sense why I would have done the same thing. Why you felt that way or why you reacted that way. I'm just shocked. I have not frozen. That's so good. And I think you saying that you weren't freezing and me knowing right now that you're not freezing is helping me to stay thawed, not going frozen and not being, you know, I like I'm still learning that. And you being Warm or what's the melted? What's the opposite? I don't even know. Melted, I guess. I had never thought about that. That's a cool way to put it. But and I think that kind of goes to show like our ⁓ what is it? Nervous system. Like we are my calm nervous system is helping your calm nervous system. Especially if we're just focused on the com in the conversation and not trying to bring in all the facts in one episode. Which I think the facts will come if they come. If not, it's just topical and conversational. And I think ultimately what we're trying to do is bring people in so that they are a part of something. So that we all feel like we're in it together. Mm-hmm. Yes. That co regulation. And even as you were talking about co regulation, like I'm rubbing my feet on the carpet. I'm barefoot right now. And that's just helping me stay present and not going in like I'm being able to stay thawed and not completely frozen. Still nervous that I'm saying this out loud and just reminding myself, okay, I am an adult now. I am fifty. I am in the t in today, right now, talking to you, my sister. We can say on the phone or whatever. All of that is helping me to not go into that dysregulated state of being frozen. Because when we freeze, like if I stop to thank myself, like thank you, nervous system, for protecting me, because I learned to do this when I was just a little girl and I had nowhere to go. You know, I can't fight, I can't flight, I can't run away. And so I'm just frozen because I can't do any of the other. Two things that are like a such a survival instinct that are that's within us. Mm-hmm. That is so true. And I was before we got on the podcast or started recording, I was telling you that when I freeze, like I told you, if I'm on camera and I'm frozen, that just my body physically will freeze. I'll just sit here and be a good girl, quote unquote. And just sit here being I don't know, not interrupting, not showing too many facial expressions, using a certain tone of voice, like what's acceptable or what has what I thought had to be the acceptable BB. And then when I'm calm, I know like I'm sitting here playing with a rubber band. This is me being not frozen. Like I can sit here and just fidget, or my body relaxes and my shoulders drop. My knees go up. It's a physical frozen or a thawed, as you just said, that I love, that comes up like it my insides and my outsides will show. My faces will be expressive. My voice will be expressive. If not, I can just sit and talk monotone and that's that's old me. I don't want to go back to old me. I wanna be thawed. I don't want to be frozen. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I like that you said, you know, I if I'm frozen. it's because I want to be a good girl. I heard another therapist say that the other day, and I thought, ⁓ hot dog, yes. I just want to be that good girl. And the good girl for me was put on this show, put on the stand so that the attention is on me, not because I want to be special, but for me it was like, if you keep your eyes on me. we're gonna avoid having anybody get in trouble or avoid anybody being called out and shamed. So I'm just gonna do this little dance over here so that nobody gets hurt. And I hadn't even put that together until recently. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I definitely think about it often. The good girl, like don't speak unless spoken to. I think, what the heck? I'm 42. I can speak up. Taking up space. That's something I've learned from you. Take up space. You're a person. You can interrupt, like time and place. You can give your feedback. Not only can I, I should. Like what I have inside me is worth speaking. I didn't know that before. Before I thought, ⁓ I have to sit in silence or even to. And I don't know if we want to go this route, but even to be like a good Christian, like don't say certain things, don't speak in a certain way. And I think, well, if it's not against the Lord, and if it is honoring and glorifying him, I can ask questions. That is honoring God. Where before, in our in my past, our past, don't ask questions. I know, I think, no, actually that's a really good thing to ask clarifying questions. It's not like me maybe I don't know, disrespecting somebody. It is truly to clarify. And ⁓ I'm that has a lot to do with motives as well. But I think that is ⁓ that was part of my good girl performance. Don't ask questions, go along to get along. Things will be just fine. So asking questions or being the good girl, this controlled good girl, would keep you safe. Is that what you're saying? Like you learned to be this controlled good girl? Because what did it get you if you were the controlled, like if you were under control and always looking a certain way? I think it kept those around me safe. So your version and my version were doing the same thing. So my version was look at me, look at me, and it'll keep everybody else safe. And for you, I'm gonna stay monotoned or not speak because it also kept people safe? Mm-hmm. Like say more about that. I would say if I would I used to think if I vocalized something, it might make somebody react to something or I might make something noticed. So if I say something, I'll draw attention to something that we all already know is happening. But me vocalizing it now gives more weight to it. And then if something is done or said about that, then whose fault is it? Mine. Because I said something. I brought attention. Same with ⁓ like going in a car ride. Like there's certain music. It wasn't until in my marriage at some point that I knew I could change the radio station if I wanted. Sounds like a simple thing. But I think when there's so much ⁓ I'm not sure what I'm gonna want to call it, but when there's so much tension maybe or the idea that I had to perform in a certain way, and I didn't feel free to ask something for something that I wanted, then that's I in my mind, when I ask for something that's wanted, that's gonna cause problems. If I ask for the radio station to be changed, that's gonna be a problem. There's gonna be a consequence. And so it wasn't until my marriage that Ruben, my husband, said, You don't have to ask me for permission to change the radio station. I said, what do you mean? Like I thought you would get mad. It's like why would I get mad? I just thought that was the reaction that like that deserved someone getting mad if you just change the station. So just things like that, I would freeze on that as well. Like the music's on freeze. Don't change the station. Don't sing along, don't do this. Something might be disrupted. So to me that I will disrupt whatever flow we have going on. Especially if it's a good flow and there's not a bad flow. So you don't want to really rock the boat because if you rock the boat, then who knows what's going to happen. Mm-hmm. Do you think that this ⁓ like how was that for you when you were in the hospital? ⁓ the good girl part? The not rocking the boat, not asking to change the radio station. So like not asking for what you needed. Ooh, that's a good question. I would say because I was with our mom and she was my safe space at the time, I did feel like I could ask her. For things I needed and wanted. or she would see the need and want and she would seek it out for me on my behalf. So for instance, I wasn't eating well at all at one point in the hospital. I had lost a lot of weight. I was, gosh, I don't even know how much I weighed, but I was just very malnourished, I would say. And I was on a very special or strict diet, so I couldn't eat what I was actually craving. So our mom would get food however she could, even though she knew I shouldn't eat it. But she knew that something is better than nothing. So she would give me those needs. And so I I knew that I could ask her, Hey, I'm hungry, can you get me this? Where in our home situation, ⁓ it was different with our other parent. Mm. Where I couldn't ask if I can ask for the radio station to be changed. I definitely can't ask for food. That's a little crazy as that sounds. But you can ask for something small. Why would you ask for something big? Mm. Yeah. I that's so crazy because I'm trying to think back then I know that I did a lot of ⁓ our mom's bidding. ⁓ so like I'm thinking you needing food or let's say we'll use the example of the ramen noodles. So you liked the ramen noodles and you liked the seasoning. And so our mom would take the ramen noodles and take the seasoning out of all of the noodles and give them to you. Meanwhile back at the ranch, we're the rest of us just like well We're just gonna go without or eat the noodles plain. Yes, you would eat the noodles plain, not even cooked. Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Raw noodles. Yes. They were Yes. And I think too like that just kind of reinforced that my needs didn't matter and I should be sacrificing because then if I said something like the noodles I remember getting mad that there was no seasoning and she's like, Well, your sister needs them. Okay, I guess she needs them more than I do. And like what a message ⁓ hence Jojo. Yes. Yes. With nothing like that none of that was your fault. And it was still being played out. And like our mom was so restricted with finances, like she didn't get money from our dad. Well, that's we'll get into that, but there's a lot of abuse there, financial abuse. So she had to do what she had to do to keep you alive. And there's still four of us at home that are like, well, fend for yourself. So mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's crazy because it's such a such an extreme. If it weren't for my hospital stay, I would have been in the same exact boat. Because prior to that, I know that I was also eating like uncooked noodles or you know, how we ate or didn't. And then after the mustard. The mustard. That might be a whole episode. What was saying? Gosh, my ADHD is kicking in. If you hadn't been hospitalized, you ⁓ eating the same way. Yes. So after a certain time, ⁓ I would say my Jojo VIP card wore out for a while. So I would say I also had to get I wouldn't get all the specialty foods. But I do re because our dad would get the specialty foods. But for a while When I did get that JoJo card, it was I had special sodas. I had special food. Nobody else could touch it. I didn't realize I was eleven. Like I didn't didn't realize what was happening on the other end for you guys. I just thought like I don't think I thought. I think I was just surviving. I was at home and I don't know how much we've said or how much to say, but I was truly I knew like I'm just Trying to live, actually survive and not die. And I remember hearing like, ⁓ no, you can't drink that grape soda, which was one of our siblings' favorite, the grape soda. And I thought that I remember thinking, like, that's kind of weird. Like, they're mine. Those are my grape sodas. But I didn't think like I'm selfish, I need it, she doesn't get it. I just, well, yeah, I mean, I gotta eat. I gotta consume what I can consume. And now I think, ⁓ my word, like my poor siblings. Here I am being favored and shown all these things. And I don't even know if it would be maybe it would be I don't know if it's c considered favoritism. Just one child is dying, let's keep them alive. Is that favoritism? I have no idea. Mm-hmm. That's a whole different category. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think ⁓ like we're having obviously a good conversation where I forgotten that somebody else might be listening, but just to touch base, you got sick. You got sick at eleven. You went into a coma like on the thirteenth, two days before your twelfth birthday? Or no, it was two days before my eleventh birthday. Mm-hmm. It was Friday the thirteenth. Friday the thirteenth, you ⁓ our mom went to wake you up to go to school. You hadn't been feeling good. You'd had a fever. She goes in to wake you up and you're not waking up. And I was in college. I was nineteen and I remember ⁓ Going like I was working at McDonald's and I walked in and s a coworker said, ⁓ your family's at the hospital. And I remember just like cold from head to toe. Just kicked in and I went and sure enough, you were in a coma and they didn't know what was going on. Your kidneys had failed. They thought you were gonna die. And I think we might have talked about this maybe very early on or one of our first episodes. As if we've done fifty episodes as Where my mind is right now. But you went to the hospital and Yeah, almost died. And then you were told you were going to die. And our mom said, Okay, well, if this was, I think, six months after you'd been in the hospital, I think three months in ICU. ⁓ she chose to take you home and sh said if she's gonna die, she's gonna die at home. And so we pretty much took a hospital to our house and prayed that you wouldn't die. And I remember actually praying, you know, Lord, if like if she's gonna die, just take her. Like, this is enough. Thank you. We've all suffered. She's not doing well. But yeah, and then the we're talking about, you know, once you got stabilized and you were home, obviously you didn't die. Then all of a sudden this favoritism kicked in, and you got you had to eat because you were trying to actually. So it wasn't a perceived you were actually trying to live. Mm-hmm. Because you're and trying to think about it, like on our mom's perspective, I would probably do the same. Or well, I don't know that I would do the same, but I would do something similar. Like we're limited on money, like you said. We're eating ramen noodles because that's what we can afford. And I won't eat ramen noodles, or I wasn't eating ramen noodles. Unless they were extra salty, which makes sense because apparently like when your kidneys are failing, you crave more salt. There's something to that. Anyway, so I can understand like what's the big deal? Just get her another packet of seasoning. Mm-hmm. Yes. Or she'll drink a soda, save it for her, like everything in her being was just wanting me to not die. Mm-hmm. I think, of course, of course. What do you do? How else do you respond with limited tools, limited freedom, without any support? What do you do? You just do what you think you can do. The other kids are good, they're eating something, they're fending for themselves or figuring it out. Let's give the the little one Whatever she'll take. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's so layered, I think, for so many people. Like I had a conversation like this recently with some friends where the parents are like, We did everything that we knew to do to raise what we thought in a good home, providing all the things, and now one of our kids is saying, you know, you didn't do enough and I'm so mad at you. And And they're still trying to show up for this child. ⁓ And I think kinda like what you're saying maybe s other siblings like within our family, you know, they're they are upset. I don't I mean I can't say I I can just say sure. I I could have been upset. I could have been mad. You and I could have a horrible relationship and be like, well you got everything and I got nothing and I hate mom and this and that. But thank God for compassion and understanding. ⁓ and that doesn't make either one okay but Mm. There's and if it is understandable. Like if if some siblings have or are currently upset over it, I would say that's pretty dang understandable. I would I'm sure I would have thoughts whether yeah, against me or our parents. Because even though I know I'm not at fault, I know I was a child, I can that could still be like a point of content. Where it's like, well you You know, you can't ask me for anything. You already got all the good stuff or you already got everything that I needed. So I think it would make sense if somebody did feel bitter about it, I would say, Yep, I get it. I get it. Mm-hmm. And h how do you think like having this perspective that I get it, you know, I understand both sides, do you think that that's helping you heal? Like if Or any like let's say heal what you did get, heal what you didn't get, just having that perspective of understanding. I don't know. I'd never thought about that. ⁓ I guess it could probably go either way. Like I think it could help me ⁓ maybe have an understanding point of our siblings. ⁓ I okay. I think I know what you're getting at. Maybe. I don't know if you're getting at something, but what I'm thinking now is ⁓ I probably had more compassion have currently more compassion. for our siblings than for myself. So I think I tend to think more of course they should or could be upset at me. Of course they should rather than saying like having maybe a small thought in my mind of gosh, I'm sorry you had to go through that or I wish Yeah, I can think that. But maybe having both at the same time, having compassion for them. And for myself. Again, not forgetting that I did need extra something. Everything really, if I'm being honest. I needed extra help in every area, every area of life. Physical, mental, spiritual. I couldn't walk. I couldn't talk. I couldn't I couldn't do anything by myself. And so I think that That I think probably is a little bit more vulnerable for me to think rather than thinking, Gosh, that sucks. They didn't get the grape soda or they didn't get this. So for me to think, What did I need? Because I also had other needs that maybe I was getting specialty foods and specialty drinks, but I still didn't Gosh, and I'm trying to be very cautious about how I how I say this. there were still a lot of needs that weren't met at the time. So I can only imagine like our siblings and your side of it as well. If me being the special one still needed more, how much more would you guys have needed too? Mm-hmm. And it kind of goes back to like that conversation that we had. Where you found out that you had eight years to live, the second time you had a death sentence, and your thought wasn't on you, like, ⁓ my gosh, I've only got eight years to live. Your thought was more on, ⁓ my gosh, what is she gonna do? She's gonna be stuck. Mm-hmm. There's a pattern. Yes. And that goes back to like forgetting yourself or abandoning yourself, where I'm not even gonna think about this or think about me. In this situation, I'm just gonna consider everybody else. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think for me being able to hold and my therapist taught me this, being able to hold the two truths at the same time, that's helped me to heal. Understanding that our mom was up against horrific things, some really horrific things. And you were up against some horrific things. And so was I. All of those were happening at the same time. I think that's helped me to heal because for a long time I was really mad at our mom. I remember I don't know if you remember this, but you came to visit and we had a boat at the time. And ⁓ we were at the lake, and I don't even remember why, I'm sure I was drunk. ⁓ we started talking about our mom and I was so angry. I just barely started going to therapy, I think. And I was just telling you how angry I was at our mom for XYZ. And I remember you telling me, You might want to keep going to your therapist. Yes, because at the time I thought it's wrong of me to be angry. And now knowing that I can honor that anger. Mm-hmm Yeah, that anchor was telling me I wanted things to be different. Mm-hmm. And to having compassion for myself like that sucked that I didn't get what I needed. Going to my inner child and saying, Mm-hmm, that sucked. And that doesn't mean that you're a bad kid or a bad person. Like that wasn't your fault. And like loving myself, showing myself love, giving myself the things that I maybe didn't get in those moments, understanding, you know, connection and and still having understanding for our mom, I think that yes has gone such a long way for me to be able to hold two truths. Well, more than two truths. Yes. But yes, minimum of two truths. Not just either I'm right or the other person's right. But there's ⁓ both we don't have to be right or wrong. It's valid that we're feeling what we're feeling. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because emotions are just it's just information. That's all emotions are is information to keep us either we're gonna survive or to provide connection, which connection for me equals love, love for me equals survival, and Yeah, I think honoring that. both all the sides has really helped me in my healing journey. You said something earlier that I wanted to correct. It's not like a huge thing, but it may play a part into if we talk about like when I went into a coma, ⁓ it was our dad that went to wake me up for school, not our mom. Mm-hmm. I didn't know that. I wondered if you didn't know that, but it was yeah, he went to wake me up and I had vomited and I he couldn't wake me up and so he was shaking me. And I've heard this from our mom several times, that she ⁓ I think she asked him to wake me up because she was getting breakfast ready and I was about ready to head out to school. And so when he did and I wouldn't wake up, then he started to shout for her and then she went upstairs. And then they realized that I wasn't waking up. So then I think between the two of them, they picked me up, put me in the station wagon, and then drove me to the hospital. I'm not sure if like the other kids were in tow. I actually have no idea. I just know from then I got to the hospital and from the hospital they lifelighted me to Salt Lake. But I don't obviously I those are things I don't think I remember. But we'll see if the future brings any any awakenings, maybe, or whatever you wanna call it. I don't remember that for sure at this point. Mm mm. Mm-hmm. So crazy. and I feel like this has been probably our most authentic conversation. Well, other than ⁓ the one that we had with Jonathan, who I'm sure will you'll be able to find that episode in here somewhere. But I feel like between you and I, this has really been a good for me, a good conversation where I'm not so panicked. I'm not frozen. I'm not even thawed. I'm totally melted and I've kinda checked the notes, like what do I need to be saying? Where do I need to be going? And I feel like it like today went really good for me and my nervous system. What about you? Good. I think it was good too. My ⁓ I would say the only time my nervous system got a little rocked, but that was in a different episode. That was with Jonathan. ⁓ not nervous system. I just felt more emotional than I thought I would. But that seems to be a theme as of late. Where I don't expect emotion to hit, but because I'm allowing emotion allowing emotion, I just think, wow, that was powerful. What are those emotions signaling? Mm-hmm. That I'm happy, excited, in awe. All the things. Receiving kindness. Yes. Or realizing like giving kindness too, like telling Jonathan how much it meant to me. Yes. Back when I was seventeen to spend so much time with him and Billy. I think I think about that so much. I think about it all the time. But to never have said it and then say it, no. I thought, wow, that was really cool. What a cool opportunity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I thought so too. And so with that, since our nervous systems are at ease, I feel like it's a great place to end and Honestly, it kind of sets the stage up for the next one that I want to talk about emotions and information and my little story that I came up one day that I was driving home from Boise back to Las Vegas. This whole metaphor analogy, I don't know which one it is, but I can't wait to talk about that one for next time. So if this resonates with anybody, we would love for you to connect with us and just continue to follow us on our journey and see what else is in store. So like, subscribe, all the things. Ask questions also. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Bye.