Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Summer Replay: Toxic Masculinity and Male Dating Priviledge

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Summer Replay: Toxic Masculinity and Male Dating Priviledge · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Thank you for checking out this week's episode.
0:03
Speaker 1: I wanted to jump on and offer a small reminder
0:07
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0:10
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0:14
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0:27
Speaker 1: tolerated before. The second way is by becoming a Patreon member.
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Speaker 1: your support means everything. Another way that you can connect
0:54
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0:58
Speaker 1: wherever you can so we can start reading reviews on
1:02
Speaker 1: each podcast episode. Thank you so much for being here.
1:07
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out the merchant store and we
1:10
Speaker 1: will see you next week. Hey tolerators, this is to
1:37
Speaker 1: all the men I've tolerated before with Natalie Katona, your
1:40
Speaker 1: weekly look at everyday misogyny. It is an exciting day
1:44
Speaker 1: because Ellen Moore is back. Ellen is the amazing hosting
1:48
Speaker 1: creator of The Slut Show with Ellen Moore. You will
1:51
Speaker 1: remember her as our guest when we dished about sex
1:54
Speaker 1: toys and our partners and connected over how young women
1:58
Speaker 1: aren't taken seriously in our society. Today, Ellen is going
2:02
Speaker 1: to help me call out misogyny for allowing men to
2:06
Speaker 1: have dating privilege.
2:10
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
2:11
Speaker 2: to be back on the show.
2:13
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be talking to you again. We
2:16
Speaker 1: need to have you on all the time.
2:18
Speaker 2: Oh, you're the cutest. I'm always so happy to be
2:21
Speaker 2: here and do this with you. I'm so excited.
2:24
Speaker 1: So I don't know how much you want to get
2:26
Speaker 1: into it, but I am assuming that due to your
2:30
Speaker 1: current relations ship status, that misogyny probably played a small
2:35
Speaker 1: part into it.
2:37
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it played the biggest part ever. I
2:40
Speaker 2: wish it didn't. But it's funny because, like in preparation
2:44
Speaker 2: of this episode, we talked obviously, and we discussed that
2:48
Speaker 2: the first time we recorded an episode, I was single
2:51
Speaker 2: and I was talking to my what was going to
2:54
Speaker 2: be my partner eventually. Then the second time we recorded
2:56
Speaker 2: an episode, I was in a relationship with him, and
2:58
Speaker 2: now I dumped him.
3:01
Speaker 1: Dumped you love sorry what you say? I said, We
3:05
Speaker 1: love to see it. I would love it if everyone
3:08
Speaker 1: just went nadly today. I did it. I dumped him
3:11
Speaker 1: like it's the only thing I want to be celebrating.
3:13
Speaker 2: It has been such a good thing. It's been such
3:17
Speaker 2: a positive breakup for me personally. It has been such
3:21
Speaker 2: a power move. I'm so happy I did it. It
3:24
Speaker 2: gave me so much perspective into what I need and
3:27
Speaker 2: most importantly, what I do not need in a relationship
3:30
Speaker 2: in a partner. And it has been a journey.
3:37
Speaker 1: I can imagine. I don't know what it's like over
3:41
Speaker 1: there across the ocean, but over here we have such
3:45
Speaker 1: a like rigid and like steadfast view of dating and
3:52
Speaker 1: relationships where it's like if it didn't end in marriage
3:56
Speaker 1: or like a lifelong commitment, then you like almost got
3:59
Speaker 1: nothing from it. And then what it does is it
4:01
Speaker 1: shackles us into these relationships that we know are either
4:06
Speaker 1: toxic boring. I love when we're just bored in our relationships,
4:10
Speaker 1: but we're like, well this is what I'm doing and
4:13
Speaker 1: things like that. So to hear you say that, like
4:16
Speaker 1: the breakup was so empowering and it's like we have
4:20
Speaker 1: to start changing the narrative on how we view like
4:23
Speaker 1: the ending of relationships.
4:26
Speaker 2: I could not agree more. I feel like a lot
4:28
Speaker 2: of the time that is indeed what it's like presented
4:31
Speaker 2: as you date to marry, But sometimes that's not that's
4:36
Speaker 2: not the case, and and honestly, most of the time
4:38
Speaker 2: that's not the case because how often has it happened
4:40
Speaker 2: that you meet the person immediately like that that you're
4:42
Speaker 2: going to spend the rest of your life with immediately?
4:44
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't necessarily happen that often. I think I
4:47
Speaker 2: don't have the statistics on it, so don't like call
4:50
Speaker 2: me out on the fact. But I mean, dating brings
4:55
Speaker 2: you life lessons, It brings can bring joy, can bring excitement,
5:00
Speaker 2: can bring pleasure, it can bring a lot of positivity,
5:02
Speaker 2: can bring so many things besides marriage and having to
5:05
Speaker 2: spend the rest of your life together. So I do
5:09
Speaker 2: think it's really important. So also discuss how a non
5:12
Speaker 2: successful relationship quote unquote unsuccessful can be very.
5:16
Speaker 1: Beneficial, right. And I whenever I would like get over
5:21
Speaker 1: or breakup very quickly and people would be like, oh,
5:25
Speaker 1: so you've just I was like, I've just processed it.
5:28
Speaker 1: This is what I learned from it, this is what
5:30
Speaker 1: I don't want from it, and now I'm ready to go.
5:34
Speaker 1: But I think that this ridiculous notion that I'm dating
5:40
Speaker 1: you basically I'm like you were interviewing me, or I'm
5:45
Speaker 1: auditioning to be your WIFEI or whatever. That is one
5:50
Speaker 1: of the pillars that men have built their dating privilege
5:54
Speaker 1: on because they know that at the end of the day,
5:58
Speaker 1: we've been made to feel like everything should be a
6:01
Speaker 1: fairy tale, yes.
6:03
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And we're also raised with this idea
6:05
Speaker 2: that we should be somebody's wife at some point, and honestly,
6:10
Speaker 2: why if we do not want to be that, then
6:13
Speaker 2: why should we be forced into a role of like
6:17
Speaker 2: domestication and like you know, cleaning, cooking and doing all
6:21
Speaker 2: the things that come within that picture of patriarchal happiness
6:25
Speaker 2: and a family life. And we have a description of
6:29
Speaker 2: like family life and Dutch it's house bumpubaca, which refers
6:32
Speaker 2: to it's like the word for a small house, small animal,
6:40
Speaker 2: a small tree. So it's like, you know, painting this
6:44
Speaker 2: picture of married life, I think kids being happy living
6:48
Speaker 2: in your suburban fantasy. But that's not what life is
6:54
Speaker 2: like where we live in twenty twenty three. We've been through.
6:58
Speaker 1: That, we've been through it, or we've watched other people
7:02
Speaker 1: go through it, and we refuse I'm still single. We
7:06
Speaker 1: hadn't touch based on that when you got on the call.
7:09
Speaker 1: But as you know, I watch a lot of reality television.
7:12
Speaker 1: I love to just rot my brain, and I've been watching.
7:18
Speaker 2: I Love You.
7:19
Speaker 1: I've been watching a season of Married at First Sight,
7:23
Speaker 1: and this man just keeps making comment about how they
7:27
Speaker 1: paired him up with a woman who doesn't cook, and
7:31
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't understand it. She doesn't even she
7:34
Speaker 1: doesn't even know how to grocery shop. Like she's like, well,
7:38
Speaker 1: I've only really had a grocery shop for myself, and
7:41
Speaker 1: I e out a lot because I don't enjoy cooking.
7:45
Speaker 1: And when the experts told her, well, that wasn't really
7:49
Speaker 1: on his like must have list because they interview these
7:52
Speaker 1: people and then they match them up and then make
7:54
Speaker 1: them marry one another, and he goes, I didn't think
7:57
Speaker 1: it had to be on my to do list. I
7:59
Speaker 1: thought that that was just like a given. Why cook?
8:04
Speaker 2: Oh my, but like, does he cook? Can I get back?
8:10
Speaker 1: No?
8:10
Speaker 2: He do groceries? Does he cook? For her, does he
8:13
Speaker 2: clean the house?
8:15
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing. It's like, what were
8:18
Speaker 1: you doing before you were wiped up?
8:21
Speaker 2: Like was your mom doing it for you? The hell?
8:25
Speaker 1: Yeah so? And I think that's one of the frustrating
8:29
Speaker 1: things for me too, is when you enter into a
8:32
Speaker 1: relationship and they just like assume that they get to
8:36
Speaker 1: take a back seat on whatever their life was beforehand,
8:40
Speaker 1: and you've got it, like, you've got that right. No,
8:45
Speaker 1: You enter into a relationship and then men have socidedly
8:50
Speaker 1: been handed an idea of what marriage, relationships, dating are
8:55
Speaker 1: supposed to look like, and so they like take their
8:58
Speaker 1: entire life where they been trying to feed themselves and
9:03
Speaker 1: trying to also run a household or whatever, and they're like, oh,
9:07
Speaker 1: thank god that's over, because now I have someone else
9:10
Speaker 1: who's going to take that over for me.
9:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I sympathize with men in the sense that
9:17
Speaker 2: it is really I can't imagine what it's like being
9:20
Speaker 2: raised into society, being taught that you should not have
9:25
Speaker 2: any feelings and if you have them, you should suppress
9:27
Speaker 2: them and not talk about them, and that wives are
9:31
Speaker 2: your future and they should take care of you. They
9:33
Speaker 2: are the ones that raise your children and clean your
9:35
Speaker 2: house and cook your dinner and get your groceries and
9:38
Speaker 2: do your laundry, like it's this bizarre notion, like they
9:42
Speaker 2: have been raised with this fantasy picture of what the
9:47
Speaker 2: patriarchy has forced upon us for so many centuries and centuries,
9:52
Speaker 2: and to now comes to the conclusion that that is
9:55
Speaker 2: not what women want anymore, and that it may have
9:59
Speaker 2: never been in what they wanted in the first place,
10:01
Speaker 2: but we were constantly being put down. We were not
10:05
Speaker 2: being taken serious as serious candidates for jobs, we were
10:08
Speaker 2: not being taken serious as anything outside of that role
10:12
Speaker 2: of being a wife and being a caretaker and being
10:15
Speaker 2: a caregiver. And to come to that conclusion that, oh shit,
10:21
Speaker 2: maybe that's not what women expect nowadays. And I feel
10:25
Speaker 2: like the political climate is not at all helping in
10:28
Speaker 2: that sense. It is contributing to the problem. It is
10:31
Speaker 2: aggravating it. And oh, man, life in a patriarchal society
10:37
Speaker 2: can be a pain in the ass well.
10:39
Speaker 1: And talk about like dating privilege coming from the top
10:42
Speaker 1: when it comes to living in a patriarchal society where
10:46
Speaker 1: we'll base our laws and regulations around what men are
10:51
Speaker 1: feeling currently instead of like men getting together to be like,
10:55
Speaker 1: why don't women want to date us and then have
10:58
Speaker 1: our children. They're just like, we'll just stronghold them into
11:02
Speaker 1: having our children and outlaw abortion and then they have
11:05
Speaker 1: to deal with us.
11:07
Speaker 2: Which is completely bizarre because why in the first place
11:12
Speaker 2: are men making decisions about what women should should be
11:16
Speaker 2: allowed to do with their bodies. Isn't that entirely up
11:19
Speaker 2: to women. It is irrelevant what you did suit our body.
11:23
Speaker 2: You still do not have any stay in what we
11:26
Speaker 2: do with our body as ours. Fuck off you really,
11:30
Speaker 2: like we'd never ask for your opinion about it, never fuck.
11:35
Speaker 1: All the way up. And as you know, I am petty.
11:38
Speaker 1: So if you think you're gonna strong arm me into
11:41
Speaker 1: having your baby, I've been saying out loud at every
11:45
Speaker 1: social gathering, like men aren't allowed to ejaculate in my
11:49
Speaker 1: presence until we all have abortion rights, Like you have
11:53
Speaker 1: to be in a completely separate room, state household. No
11:58
Speaker 1: man is ejaculating and getting pleasure anywhere near me until
12:04
Speaker 1: I can rectify all of the mistakes they'll heap upon me.
12:08
Speaker 2: And understandably, so what is that like for you right now?
12:12
Speaker 1: Like?
12:12
Speaker 2: What are the abortion rules where you live?
12:14
Speaker 1: So right now in Ohio, I at Trivia on Wednesday
12:20
Speaker 1: signed a piece of paper that, if to it was
12:24
Speaker 1: a petition to say, if you're going to talk about
12:28
Speaker 1: taking away and regulating abortion, you at least have to
12:32
Speaker 1: put it on the ballot so it's up to the
12:34
Speaker 1: popular vote. So there's been rumblings, there's been talking. As
12:40
Speaker 1: far as I know, it's not outright outlawed yet, but
12:45
Speaker 1: we're already preparing for it to be outlawed. So we're like,
12:48
Speaker 1: if you're going to try to outlaw it, you're at
12:51
Speaker 1: least going to hear us, and you're gonna let us
12:53
Speaker 1: vote for it rightfully.
12:55
Speaker 2: So and I mean, y'all, you also have to, like
12:57
Speaker 2: in that sense, plan ahead because if abortion is to
13:00
Speaker 2: be an outlawed in like the next coming weeks or months,
13:03
Speaker 2: then your sexual behavior also needs to adapt based on that,
13:07
Speaker 2: which is bizarre because now it is literally a matter
13:10
Speaker 2: of what you decide to do with your genitals.
13:13
Speaker 1: Which.
13:15
Speaker 2: What what.
13:18
Speaker 1: It's not stopping at abortion. It's one day it's abortion,
13:22
Speaker 1: the next day it's let's go back to insurance companies
13:25
Speaker 1: getting to decide whether or not they cover birth control
13:29
Speaker 1: and preventative measures. Let's make sure that we decide that
13:33
Speaker 1: Plan B in those types of contraceptives are also considered abortions.
13:40
Speaker 2: And additionally, by outlawing abortion, you don't stop abortion, you
13:44
Speaker 2: just stop safe abortions. You there's still gonna be people
13:48
Speaker 2: who are gonna abort the clums of cells that are
13:51
Speaker 2: in their uterus. The problem is they don't have the
13:54
Speaker 2: tools to do it in a way that is safe,
13:56
Speaker 2: that is sterile. Is that the proper word. I don't know.
14:01
Speaker 2: So people are still gonna need abortions, and they're gonna
14:05
Speaker 2: get get them, no matter if it's via a way
14:09
Speaker 2: that is legal and healthy and easy and accessible, or
14:14
Speaker 2: if that is hurtful in an alleyway with a needle,
14:18
Speaker 2: with like horrible, like a million years ago kind of practices.
14:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, And honestly, I have a good panicked I'm so
14:32
Speaker 1: scared cry about it every week because some television show
14:37
Speaker 1: will cover some awful story, or I will stumble upon
14:41
Speaker 1: an awful story on TikTok or any of my other
14:45
Speaker 1: social media's and I'm just I'm like, no, this is
14:49
Speaker 1: my reality. It's scary to live here.
14:53
Speaker 2: I cann't imagine. Honestly, It's just I sometimes I live
15:01
Speaker 2: in in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, and from for me, for
15:05
Speaker 2: us like Dutch people, we we get to see what's
15:08
Speaker 2: happening in the States from afar. We get to see
15:10
Speaker 2: the political climate change. We get to see how how
15:14
Speaker 2: Biden's presidency has has been a major influence on on
15:20
Speaker 2: like many different things, and how how it's been contradicting
15:24
Speaker 2: with Trump's presidency, et cetera. And so we have we
15:27
Speaker 2: have this distance and we I feel like news reporters
15:31
Speaker 2: are always kind of like shocked about what's happening and
15:33
Speaker 2: how how extravagantly these politicians are are portraying their opinions,
15:39
Speaker 2: and how bizarre the whole whole situation is right now
15:42
Speaker 2: with Trump and the the I don't want to constantly
15:47
Speaker 2: refer to her as the porn star, but I don't
15:49
Speaker 2: know the name. Her name, to be very honest.
15:51
Speaker 1: Her name is Stormy Daniels.
15:53
Speaker 2: Right, How how the headlines are constantly a porn star
15:58
Speaker 2: got Trump convicted. Hello, she's got a name. Okay, I
16:04
Speaker 2: didn't know what I know.
16:05
Speaker 1: You didn't know it because you were allowed to know it.
16:07
Speaker 1: They wouldn't print it.
16:09
Speaker 2: No, literally, like all I've seen is a porn star.
16:12
Speaker 2: God I'm convicted. They I literally have not seen her name.
16:16
Speaker 2: I've heard it because I've done some research, but I
16:18
Speaker 2: have ADHD so I forget everything I see right the
16:20
Speaker 2: second I don't see it anymore. So that's my excuse.
16:25
Speaker 2: But it's interesting to see from afar what's happening. It's
16:28
Speaker 2: so problematic. I wish I could do more. I wish
16:32
Speaker 2: I had the right to vote. I would not be
16:35
Speaker 2: voting conservative, that's for sure. Oh my god, I can't
16:39
Speaker 2: imagine what it's like, So be stuck in that.
16:42
Speaker 1: No, we're just happy to have you as a supporter
16:45
Speaker 1: from so far away with the slut show and everything
16:48
Speaker 1: that you talk about and perpetuate on your social.
16:51
Speaker 2: Media anytime ever.
16:53
Speaker 1: And birth control and contraception is a thing that has
16:58
Speaker 1: also as a form of male dating privilege, has always
17:03
Speaker 1: been the woman's responsibility, Like we have to beg for
17:07
Speaker 1: a condom to come into play. If there's a pregnancy scare,
17:11
Speaker 1: it's always well, I thought that you were on the pill. Well,
17:16
Speaker 1: sometimes my antidepressant is a little wonkier than it normally is,
17:20
Speaker 1: so so is my birth control. And it's always and
17:26
Speaker 1: you're I as a woman have learned to become more
17:30
Speaker 1: comfortable with those conversations. But it's also that I'm always
17:35
Speaker 1: steering those conversations. It's I'm using a condom unless we're
17:39
Speaker 1: committed people, and we've been committed for a while, and
17:42
Speaker 1: it's like, oh yeah, I just like never thought about
17:47
Speaker 1: that because you don't have to.
17:49
Speaker 2: Because those consequences if somebody gets pregnant, because it's not
17:53
Speaker 2: your body that gets pregnant. But like the whole conversation around,
17:59
Speaker 2: like birth control is, in and of itself, it is astonishing.
18:04
Speaker 2: Why are women the ones who are expected to take
18:07
Speaker 2: birth control? Whether it's hormonal or not hormonal, it doesn't matter.
18:11
Speaker 2: Why are we the ones expected to take birth control
18:14
Speaker 2: while in nine months we can birth one child while
18:18
Speaker 2: technically speaking, a man could ejaculate. Let me do the
18:22
Speaker 2: math real quick, give me two seconds. Okay, let's say
18:25
Speaker 2: a man ejaculates two times a Day's let's keep it
18:29
Speaker 2: very modest. Okay, so two times a day. Then we
18:31
Speaker 2: have thirty days in a month roughly, then we have
18:34
Speaker 2: nine months, that is five hundred and forty pregnancies. Why
18:38
Speaker 2: the fuck are we the ones that are supposed to
18:40
Speaker 2: take birth control while we are five hundred and forty
18:42
Speaker 2: times less likely to produce a child as a result
18:47
Speaker 2: of not taking that birth control. It is honestly bizarre.
18:52
Speaker 2: It just can't.
18:53
Speaker 1: It's bizarre, and that math seems to be what Nick
18:56
Speaker 1: Cannon is using to convince women that he should be
19:00
Speaker 1: knocking them up. Nick Cannon has a new woman who
19:04
Speaker 1: is having his baby, I swear every three months, and
19:07
Speaker 1: it's like, where'd you find her? Like, well, so he
19:13
Speaker 1: should be the poster child for male contraceptive but yeah,
19:18
Speaker 1: it's And then taking it back to just the dating
19:23
Speaker 1: structure and how we view dating in our society, our media,
19:29
Speaker 1: and what young women are taught. Every time I'm watching
19:34
Speaker 1: The Bachelor and one of the women goes, you know,
19:38
Speaker 1: I was really thinking about it today. And I also
19:43
Speaker 1: get to choose whether or not I like him, and
19:47
Speaker 1: she has to say it out loud like it's a
19:49
Speaker 1: movement and a moment, because it is. We are constantly
19:53
Speaker 1: put into these positions when we're like, he'll tell me
19:57
Speaker 1: if he likes me, and then that will validate our relationship.
20:01
Speaker 1: He'll tell me if we're dating, and that will validate
20:04
Speaker 1: whether or not we're in a relationship. If I bring
20:08
Speaker 1: up wants what I want to label that relationship or
20:12
Speaker 1: how I want this relationship to go, or whatever I've
20:16
Speaker 1: been told. I'm needy, I'm scaring him away, I'm jumping
20:20
Speaker 1: the gun, I'm making him panic like it all has
20:24
Speaker 1: to be around them and their fear of commitment, and
20:28
Speaker 1: they're imposed upon fear of commitment.
20:31
Speaker 2: No matter what we do, it's it's not good if
20:35
Speaker 2: we tell people that we have feelings there too soon.
20:39
Speaker 2: They're too strong, We're feeling too much, We're being extravagant,
20:42
Speaker 2: we're being emotional, we're being over we're overreacting. We're we're
20:46
Speaker 2: getting strings attached that should never should have never been
20:48
Speaker 2: attached in the first place. Where we're there, they always
20:52
Speaker 2: come up with new excuses as to why whatever the
20:58
Speaker 2: hell we're doing is. And I just if you like somebody,
21:07
Speaker 2: tell them. If you're not interested, tell them, if you
21:10
Speaker 2: want to fuck with them, tell them. Communicate, for fuck's sakes,
21:16
Speaker 2: begin communicating. Please, Oh my god, ladies and gentlemen. It's
21:20
Speaker 2: really not that hard.
21:22
Speaker 1: It isn't. It's like daily check ins, like are you
21:25
Speaker 1: dating other people? No? Well, good news, I'm also too
21:29
Speaker 1: exhausted today other people do. We just want to officially
21:32
Speaker 1: say that we're only dating one another, or do we
21:35
Speaker 1: want to keep it open in case I get more
21:38
Speaker 1: rest and decide I can date more people than you.
21:42
Speaker 1: I think we're so scared of what everyone's answer is
21:45
Speaker 1: going to be that we never ask a question.
21:51
Speaker 2: It really begins with communication, and that's the thing. If
21:54
Speaker 2: you're raised in a world where you're taught that your
21:58
Speaker 2: feelings should be ignored and suppressed and should not be
22:02
Speaker 2: communicated about, then of course you're not gonna share your
22:06
Speaker 2: feelings with people. And if you never share your feelings
22:08
Speaker 2: with people, then doing that for the first place is
22:11
Speaker 2: gonna be really scary and it's gonna be super hard,
22:14
Speaker 2: and of course that's gonna cause so many communicate communicating
22:18
Speaker 2: communicative problem God hard word, communicative problems because you've never
22:24
Speaker 2: done it before, and everything you do for a first
22:26
Speaker 2: time is going to be hard, and you need practice
22:28
Speaker 2: in whatever it is you do for a first time.
22:31
Speaker 2: But it is a matter of doing it and practicing
22:36
Speaker 2: and asking for help and being open to maybe maybe
22:42
Speaker 2: you're wrong, being open to the thought that maybe there
22:46
Speaker 2: is a woman who who has more knowledge in that regard,
22:49
Speaker 2: maybe there are other people who are just more of
22:53
Speaker 2: an expert in that area than you are, and that
22:56
Speaker 2: is okay. You're not less of a man, You're not invalid.
23:02
Speaker 2: It makes so much sense for you to be that
23:05
Speaker 2: way because you're raised that way, because your entire surrounding
23:10
Speaker 2: is supporting, supporting your ways and building building you up
23:15
Speaker 2: by constantly contributing to all these things that are going on.
23:21
Speaker 2: But you have to get out of it. You have
23:23
Speaker 2: to like zoom out and take a look at your
23:26
Speaker 2: behavior and realize how toxic masculinity is a widespread concept
23:31
Speaker 2: that affects so many different areas of life.
23:37
Speaker 1: And even if toxic masculinity isn't making you a cruel
23:41
Speaker 1: person to date or an abusive person, today I can say,
23:46
Speaker 1: as a woman who uses dating apps, it's making you
23:49
Speaker 1: a boring person to date, because here I've been trained
23:56
Speaker 1: my entire life not to choose men, but to catch men,
24:01
Speaker 1: and to be the pretty one, the charming one, the
24:04
Speaker 1: funny one, the one who keeps conversation going unless he
24:08
Speaker 1: doesn't like talking. Then it's just sitting in silence and
24:11
Speaker 1: slipping coffee looking at one another until he decides he's
24:15
Speaker 1: going to talk to you. And you have been conditioned
24:19
Speaker 1: to me to feel that like, well, women will just
24:22
Speaker 1: be attracted to me, and then that is the end
24:25
Speaker 1: of the journey for me and even unattractive men, even nerdy, geeky,
24:35
Speaker 1: like any of the things that we were worried about
24:37
Speaker 1: being in high school. All of our sitcoms and our
24:40
Speaker 1: television have been all like, don't worry. Men get to
24:43
Speaker 1: look and act like anything they want and someone somewhere
24:48
Speaker 1: will still marry them.
24:50
Speaker 2: I cannot even I honestly do think that men as
24:54
Speaker 2: a whole have a major problem in dealing with their emotions.
24:59
Speaker 2: And I thing that toxic masculinity is merely a way
25:04
Speaker 2: that like it's a symptom of the like all this
25:09
Speaker 2: behavior is are symptoms of one thing called toxic masculinity.
25:15
Speaker 1: I think, if you've never if you've always been taught
25:20
Speaker 1: or told or validated in the fact that everything you
25:24
Speaker 1: do is correct, everything you do is backed up by laws,
25:29
Speaker 1: by television, by behaviors of women, you do, just stop
25:36
Speaker 1: deeply reflecting on yourself. The men who have ended up
25:40
Speaker 1: being the meanest to me at the end of our
25:44
Speaker 1: relationships are truly men who just never thought that they
25:48
Speaker 1: would have had to have gotten to know themselves and
25:52
Speaker 1: maybe put forth some effort in order to keep me around, right.
25:59
Speaker 2: It my god, it glorifies so many different unhealthy habits.
26:05
Speaker 2: It's like things as like self care is for a women. Uh,
26:09
Speaker 2: the assumption that you have to work towards power and
26:13
Speaker 2: status and femininity should be rejected regardless, and you need
26:18
Speaker 2: to be tough at all times, and you shouldn't show weakness,
26:22
Speaker 2: and you shouldn't show vulnerability, and and thus that turns
26:25
Speaker 2: into super aggressive behavior and like it's it's it's been like.
26:33
Speaker 2: Studies have shown that men who hold the strongest beliefs
26:37
Speaker 2: about masculinity are severely less likely to get preventive health care,
26:44
Speaker 2: like like just consulting a doctor about whatever, whatever problems
26:49
Speaker 2: they're having, Like if they're physically ill, the stronger their
26:53
Speaker 2: beliefs are about about masculinity, the less likely they are
26:58
Speaker 2: to get diagnosed with with serious ill illness because they
27:01
Speaker 2: just consider these things. They're like, yeah, no, I'm tough,
27:04
Speaker 2: this is fine, I'll deal with it. I'll just pop
27:06
Speaker 2: some pain killers, stay waver it off the table. But
27:09
Speaker 2: it's it's also a serious risk to their health, not
27:13
Speaker 2: just physically but also mentally quite obviously. So like men
27:19
Speaker 2: need to need need to beware that. I'm not saying, oh,
27:23
Speaker 2: this is toxic masculinity because it annoys me. No, it
27:26
Speaker 2: also is causing major problems in your life. It is
27:31
Speaker 2: making you face things that you that could go a
27:36
Speaker 2: lot easier and healthier, and.
27:40
Speaker 1: You know it is.
27:41
Speaker 2: There are other ways to deal with your shit.
27:45
Speaker 1: There are other ways to deal with your shit. I
27:47
Speaker 1: think one of the benefits of being a woman in
27:49
Speaker 1: my thirties is I have all of these data points
27:54
Speaker 1: that is like the timeline of where we've come when
27:58
Speaker 1: it comes to heterosexual relationships or how men are interacting
28:03
Speaker 1: in the world of romance and dating. And there's this
28:07
Speaker 1: new phenomenon that I'm seeing in men that I know
28:11
Speaker 1: who have been married and are still with that partner
28:15
Speaker 1: and have been married for a while, or they're just
28:19
Speaker 1: dating friends of mine, or they're just around friends of mine,
28:25
Speaker 1: and they're very much well aware that in the year
28:30
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, women are demanding more and we're
28:37
Speaker 1: putting up with less, and we're getting divorced at quicker rates,
28:41
Speaker 1: and we're very much in a position where we're making
28:44
Speaker 1: our own money, where we've gotten into the stride of
28:48
Speaker 1: not needing you anymore, and that they know that they
28:52
Speaker 1: feel negatively about that because it directly impacts their desirability,
28:58
Speaker 1: but they don't know what to do with those feelings
29:01
Speaker 1: because it's almost become taboo to be like, I mean,
29:06
Speaker 1: I'm just really sad that women don't want to put
29:09
Speaker 1: up with me, because saying that out loud is ridiculous.
29:13
Speaker 1: So I see men, and I've told my friends that
29:16
Speaker 1: they need to watch out for it, because will be out,
29:21
Speaker 1: something will be going on or whatever. And then a
29:24
Speaker 1: woman has either taken up too much space, been a
29:28
Speaker 1: little too smart, been a little bit too funny and charming,
29:31
Speaker 1: has been a superstar of the moment, and the man
29:35
Speaker 1: who is directly attached to her gets quiet, gets real
29:40
Speaker 1: like seething in a silent anger withdrawn and then you
29:46
Speaker 1: have to like baby and bait him back into the moment.
29:50
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's the scariest anger of all,
29:53
Speaker 1: the seething, silent anger. That's what kills.
29:57
Speaker 2: Having to like, like you said, baby, the into normal
30:01
Speaker 2: behavior again, having to tiptoe around them, walk on eggshells
30:05
Speaker 2: in order to not piss them off and make them
30:07
Speaker 2: turn into this raging attitude version of themselves. It is bizarre. Honestly,
30:13
Speaker 2: get some fucking therapy like it's been. It has has been.
30:18
Speaker 2: Like research has shown us that men are three and
30:21
Speaker 2: a half times more likely to commit suicide than women are.
30:25
Speaker 2: Men commit ninety percent of all suicidence in the US,
30:29
Speaker 2: and seventy seven percent of all people being murdered are men.
30:34
Speaker 2: That also means that the problem really isn't women being
30:41
Speaker 2: overly emotional. No, it's men being completely unable to deal
30:45
Speaker 2: with their own emotions and thus calling us over the
30:51
Speaker 2: emotional because they have no clue what to do with themselves,
30:54
Speaker 2: and they are like, what the hell, well, how do
30:56
Speaker 2: they they do this? Now? That is that's over the emotional.
31:01
Speaker 2: Why would you would you ventilate your emotions, why would
31:04
Speaker 2: you talk about them? Why would you would you cry?
31:06
Speaker 2: What is that? That's bizarre? No, it's not, it really isn't.
31:10
Speaker 1: And in fact, fact, to the Married at First Sight episode,
31:15
Speaker 1: you know they have these like I don't know if
31:17
Speaker 1: you're familiar with the show, but they have these experts
31:19
Speaker 1: that are supposed to help the newly married people who
31:22
Speaker 1: never knew one another, never saw a picture, nothing before
31:26
Speaker 1: they stood at the altar and a lot of the
31:29
Speaker 1: women were had the same baseline complaint where it's like
31:37
Speaker 1: I don't want to have sex with him or enter
31:39
Speaker 1: into some sort of physical intimacy because emotionally I am
31:44
Speaker 1: not getting my intimacy needs met. And finally, one of
31:49
Speaker 1: the older female experts, doctor Pepper, who I'm usually on
31:54
Speaker 1: board with and love, she just basically said she's like, listen,
31:58
Speaker 1: the men in our lives, they're not our mothers, they're
32:02
Speaker 1: not our best friends, and they're not our sisters. So
32:06
Speaker 1: whatever intimacy they have offered up with you, you have
32:11
Speaker 1: to notice because that's really all they're capable of doing.
32:15
Speaker 1: They're not capable of doing it. And what a dangerous
32:19
Speaker 1: like precedent to set for women, let alone the hundreds
32:24
Speaker 1: of thousands of people who are gonna watch the TV
32:26
Speaker 1: show I Go. You just told women, if you know
32:30
Speaker 1: your emotional needs aren't being met, just don't have them
32:33
Speaker 1: or go hug your mom.
32:37
Speaker 2: Being in a relationship is more than having sex, and like,
32:40
Speaker 2: you need like an emotional relationship, Like the emotional part
32:45
Speaker 2: of a relationship is if you ask me, like at
32:49
Speaker 2: least eighty percent of your relationship there needs to be
32:52
Speaker 2: an emotional relationship. If that's not there, honey, I wouldn't
32:57
Speaker 2: call it a relationship.
32:58
Speaker 1: Right, I'd call it a fucking around and finding out
33:02
Speaker 1: type of thing.
33:03
Speaker 2: I because you're fucking flatmates. Justly, I even call it
33:10
Speaker 2: a marriage.
33:11
Speaker 1: Because when I like break up, that idea of what
33:15
Speaker 1: emotional intimacy means me, it's my my feeling of being
33:19
Speaker 1: safe in a relationship, my feeling of getting to be
33:23
Speaker 1: myself and knowing that that's going to be accepted. It
33:27
Speaker 1: love is so much more than snow White getting made
33:32
Speaker 1: out with while she was asleep?
33:34
Speaker 2: Where is the consent in that? Though this is one
33:41
Speaker 2: of those snow White being kissed while she was asleep,
33:46
Speaker 2: people are like, why are you making this a big deal? Well,
33:50
Speaker 2: because if I'm being kissed by a stranger I've never
33:54
Speaker 2: met while I am asleep, I call that, uh, sexual harassment.
34:00
Speaker 2: I would if it goes further than that, I would
34:04
Speaker 2: maybe call it call it the horrible our word, Like,
34:08
Speaker 2: obviously that is problematic and not admitting that that is
34:11
Speaker 2: how these are microaggressions, these things of like, it's glorifying
34:17
Speaker 2: this idea that consent is optional. It's not. Consent should
34:21
Speaker 2: be mandatory at the very fucking least I'm sorry for swearing.
34:25
Speaker 2: I need to really stop that.
34:26
Speaker 1: But why would you ever stop swearing on my show?
34:29
Speaker 1: We love swearing, We love it.
34:32
Speaker 2: Fuck yes, fus no.
34:35
Speaker 1: We have to start swearing about the patriarchy because it's
34:39
Speaker 1: fucking goddamn ridiculous.
34:41
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. TikTok is not a big fan,
34:44
Speaker 2: but whatever the hell.
34:45
Speaker 1: TikTok isn't a big fan of women, people of color,
34:48
Speaker 1: and the gay community in general.
34:52
Speaker 2: They're just it's called oppression.
34:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love TikTok. It's telling me exactly where I
34:59
Speaker 1: need to park and how I need to dress for
35:02
Speaker 1: the Taylor Swift concert that I'm going to this summer.
35:05
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I'm like, if
35:07
Speaker 1: I stepped out of line, I mean, TikTok already suppresses
35:11
Speaker 1: me because I'm like, what if women had rights And
35:14
Speaker 1: they're like, no, we don't stop, we don't need that.
35:18
Speaker 2: We don't like that. No, no, no, no, no, let's not show
35:21
Speaker 2: people any of the videos now, because that's not an
35:24
Speaker 2: opinion we support. But also like toxic masculinity, like it
35:29
Speaker 2: creates feelings of isolation, of loneliness. It teaches men to
35:33
Speaker 2: be a good provider. This whole concept of being a
35:37
Speaker 2: good provider, like also means that you need to, you know,
35:43
Speaker 2: not show any vulnerability, but that's not being a provider.
35:46
Speaker 2: Being a provider means showing emotional vulnerability and going to
35:51
Speaker 2: therapy and doing the work and looking yourself and like
35:54
Speaker 2: looking in the mirror and talking to people and you know,
36:00
Speaker 2: looking at your own privilege. Because privileges invisible to those
36:03
Speaker 2: who have it. And if you are being called out
36:07
Speaker 2: on your privilege, the very least you can do is
36:09
Speaker 2: look into it and think, hmm, what if I maybe
36:13
Speaker 2: am not right? What if the wild concept that I'm
36:18
Speaker 2: not right? What if I just for a second look
36:21
Speaker 2: into that and give it a shot, right, Because nobody's
36:27
Speaker 2: always right.
36:29
Speaker 1: I mean, I have been calling what's happening with anti
36:34
Speaker 1: LGBTQ legislation, the lack of gender affirming care that's been
36:40
Speaker 1: widespread throughout my country, abortion rights, all of it, Emily,
36:47
Speaker 1: it's a war on them, and it's a war on women.
36:52
Speaker 1: It's a war on anyone who is a white man.
36:55
Speaker 1: Because they have decided that they regret letting us a vote,
37:00
Speaker 1: letting us be educated, letting us work outside of the home.
37:04
Speaker 1: They regret it because they didn't because when they when
37:08
Speaker 1: after one hundred and eighty years of women fighting for
37:12
Speaker 1: the right to vote happened, they just gave it to us.
37:16
Speaker 1: So we stop complaining and stopped talking, and they would
37:20
Speaker 1: be like, what could ever go wrong with those peasly
37:22
Speaker 1: little women voting? And then they realized, like, oh shit,
37:25
Speaker 1: we gave them a collective voice, and I guess they're
37:27
Speaker 1: going to use it. They've discounted us for hundreds of years,
37:32
Speaker 1: and they anytime they gave us a little bit, they
37:35
Speaker 1: were like, you won't do anything with it, And now
37:38
Speaker 1: that we've done things with it, they there's a lot
37:41
Speaker 1: of resentment going around. That's what scares me. I think
37:45
Speaker 1: we have this misconception that the people at the top
37:47
Speaker 1: of the hierarchy of privilege, of wealth, of anything that
37:52
Speaker 1: you can think of that brings positivity into your life.
37:57
Speaker 1: I think we have this misconception that they're the most
38:00
Speaker 1: secure people in the world, like Elon Musk has to
38:03
Speaker 1: be one of the most secure men in the entire world,
38:06
Speaker 1: like he owns Twitter.
38:07
Speaker 2: Right.
38:08
Speaker 1: No, they're in constant I mean, talk to a man
38:13
Speaker 1: who has barely any wealth but is still considered wealthy.
38:17
Speaker 1: They're the most insecure, worried, scared person in the entire
38:25
Speaker 1: planet about one day it all being taken away from them.
38:29
Speaker 2: And that just goes to say that if you're not
38:32
Speaker 2: emotionally content with yourself, with your life, if you're not
38:39
Speaker 2: happy overall, then it doesn't matter what's on your bank account.
38:42
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how big you are, big your house is.
38:45
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how expensive your the car is that
38:49
Speaker 2: you drive. It doesn't matter how hot your your porn
38:52
Speaker 2: star model girlfriends that who's thirty years younger than you
38:55
Speaker 2: are is. It all doesn't matter. It really is what's
38:59
Speaker 2: in your head that matters most.
39:01
Speaker 1: On in line, Yeah, and there are some really deep
39:08
Speaker 1: rooted ideals that both sides of the spectrum have that
39:13
Speaker 1: are dangerous to entering loving, healthy and relationships that I
39:19
Speaker 1: would consider things that I would desire, and one of
39:22
Speaker 1: them is the demonization of compromise in our relationships. I
39:28
Speaker 1: have watched countless people feel like, but I just did
39:33
Speaker 1: that for you, and you're like, Okay, why are you
39:37
Speaker 1: mad that you did that for me? And it's like, well,
39:42
Speaker 1: I did it for you because I assumed that once
39:45
Speaker 1: I did this one thing for you, that was a
39:48
Speaker 1: compromise and I was done. On the current season of
39:51
Speaker 1: Love is Blind, it's he's a man who works from home,
39:55
Speaker 1: so his job can very well be anywhere, and his
40:01
Speaker 1: family isn't local or anything. And he's in a relationship
40:06
Speaker 1: with a woman whose family is in Seattle, her job
40:10
Speaker 1: is in Seattle. They're anchors to where she lives. And
40:16
Speaker 1: he's like, why should I have to compromise where I live?
40:19
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, literally, just strategically, it makes.
40:22
Speaker 2: Sense, So so why are you not doing it? Then?
40:28
Speaker 1: Because he feels like he shouldn't have to. He feels
40:31
Speaker 1: like he's made enough sacrifices. She was his second choice,
40:36
Speaker 1: and he like, and it's that for me, it's haven't
40:39
Speaker 1: EYE sacrificed enough for you? Well? Doing things for me?
40:43
Speaker 1: I think the haven't I sacrificed enough for you idea
40:48
Speaker 1: is so toxic to a healthy relationship because it's like, well,
40:51
Speaker 1: I didn't know that getting Chinese food last night was
40:55
Speaker 1: a sacrifice. I thought we were just picking dinner, right.
41:02
Speaker 2: I at the end of my relationship, in a desperate
41:09
Speaker 2: attempt to fix what was left of that relationship, I
41:14
Speaker 2: wrote my my ex my Now I X A letter,
41:17
Speaker 2: a to be precise, four thousand and six eighty six
41:23
Speaker 2: word letter that is nine pages long, written out typed
41:31
Speaker 2: explaining toxic masculinity as a concept, explaining how it applies
41:37
Speaker 2: to him, how it would benefit him him to unlearn that.
41:42
Speaker 2: And in preparation of this episode, I got that as
41:46
Speaker 2: a little, you know, backup information. And as we're talking,
41:50
Speaker 2: I'm skimming through these things to also like support the points,
41:54
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to make right and I'm reading this
41:57
Speaker 2: and you said earlier in the episode, you said that
42:00
Speaker 2: we tend to mother men, and now this nine page
42:06
Speaker 2: long letter is the perfect example of how I too,
42:13
Speaker 2: always end up mothering the men in my life. And
42:17
Speaker 2: after my last relationship, it's done. I'm not mothering nobody
42:24
Speaker 2: with a penis no more. If you're my friend and
42:27
Speaker 2: we have a relationship that is that is based on
42:30
Speaker 2: mutual respect in which I get things and you you
42:34
Speaker 2: get you get things from me, I get things from you,
42:35
Speaker 2: then good, fine, great, let's talk. Let's let me be
42:39
Speaker 2: your therapist real quick, because you're my therapist. Sometimes fine,
42:42
Speaker 2: but I refuse to settle for uneven relationships in which
42:48
Speaker 2: I am the therapist and they are going to therapy, Honey,
42:52
Speaker 2: pay somebody to be your therapist, because it ain't me anymore.
42:56
Speaker 1: Right, And all I could think of is and I've
43:00
Speaker 1: said this not to We were talking about someone else's
43:04
Speaker 1: behavior and a man in my life said, he's like, well,
43:09
Speaker 1: it's just it's very clear that there's some like social
43:13
Speaker 1: skills deficits and like socially like someone just isn't on
43:18
Speaker 1: the same page with us, and you know, and I
43:22
Speaker 1: told him, I was like, I understand the need to
43:25
Speaker 1: be kind about people's cognitive gaps, anxiety gaps, security gaps, whatever.
43:32
Speaker 1: I understand them.
43:33
Speaker 2: Have a certain fucking degree.
43:36
Speaker 1: To a certain fucking degree, because I think it's the
43:40
Speaker 1: same thing that the queer community, the bipod community, all
43:46
Speaker 1: of these people are just like, we're tired of teaching
43:48
Speaker 1: people how to be kind to us. And that's where
43:51
Speaker 1: I'm at. I go, I'm just tired of teaching people
43:54
Speaker 1: what respect looks like. What does it look like to
43:56
Speaker 1: respect women? No, there are so many resources, and it
44:02
Speaker 1: all starts with therapy and your own mentally emotional health.
44:06
Speaker 1: That and it puts women in danger to continue to
44:12
Speaker 1: give allowances like he'll get better, I told him, And
44:16
Speaker 1: he's going to enact that. He will start practicing how
44:19
Speaker 1: to treat me with respect, how to love me the
44:21
Speaker 1: way that I deserve. This whole silent resentment. Every time
44:26
Speaker 1: I see it in person, I just like text one
44:29
Speaker 1: of my friends and I was like, I hope you
44:31
Speaker 1: know he's listing all of the reasons why we should
44:34
Speaker 1: be out of his life, but probably also why we
44:37
Speaker 1: shouldn't be on the planet anymore. Like that's how men
44:40
Speaker 1: have been taught to deal with their emotions, to literally
44:43
Speaker 1: just remove the thing giving them emotions. That's us currently.
44:50
Speaker 2: This world sometimes is just oh my god, it's tiring
44:58
Speaker 2: to constantly have to raise everyone around you. Like, we
45:01
Speaker 2: don't need like a bunch of projects. We need equal relationships.
45:07
Speaker 2: We need partners who are not our project. We need
45:10
Speaker 2: friends who are not our projects. Or or therapy seeking
45:16
Speaker 2: troubled souls. I mean, it is fine to be troubled,
45:18
Speaker 2: and it is fine to need help, and it is
45:20
Speaker 2: fine to want to learn things and want to unlearn things. Hell,
45:23
Speaker 2: it is great, but do it in therapy. And don't
45:26
Speaker 2: expect your friends or your partner, or your mother or
45:30
Speaker 2: your sister to do that for you. You need to
45:33
Speaker 2: do it yourself. Stop putting the responsibility of your own
45:37
Speaker 2: happiness and emotional stability on others.
45:41
Speaker 1: So because what it allows is it allows the grace
45:44
Speaker 1: for me too to also be human and live in
45:47
Speaker 1: with like the human condition. So you might be a
45:51
Speaker 1: person who is emotionally stunted towards women. I might be
45:55
Speaker 1: a person who's fucking impatient and on three hours of
46:00
Speaker 1: sleep and patty as hell, because that's my coping mechanism.
46:05
Speaker 1: And why should I have to throw all my flaws
46:09
Speaker 1: out of the window to be really patient to you
46:13
Speaker 1: when I don't think that I would get that reciprocated.
46:16
Speaker 2: Right, And then we're the ones who need to swallow
46:19
Speaker 2: everything that we're thinking and want to say and feel
46:22
Speaker 2: to what to accommodate you, to make you feel comfortable,
46:28
Speaker 2: to make you to allow you to continue living your
46:33
Speaker 2: life as you did before. Oh honey, no, I'm taking
46:37
Speaker 2: up space. And if you have a problem with my
46:40
Speaker 2: behavior and my behavior doesn't qualify as completely out of it,
46:47
Speaker 2: then I'm pretty sure that is on you.
46:51
Speaker 1: And it's just one of those things where it's like,
46:55
Speaker 1: I know my red flags if you asked me on
46:58
Speaker 1: a first date, Hey, what are the red flags? Of
47:01
Speaker 1: yours that I should work out, but look out for
47:05
Speaker 1: I could do them and rank them. I'm going to
47:07
Speaker 1: be like, well, this will be the one that will
47:08
Speaker 1: happen the most. And I've reflected on myself and have
47:12
Speaker 1: learned to love myself despite my flaws, to get to
47:15
Speaker 1: get a handle on those flaws when they are starting
47:18
Speaker 1: to impact the lives of others, know when to remove
47:22
Speaker 1: myself when something is a trigger to those said flaws.
47:26
Speaker 1: I've done the work. I'm sorry that you've never even
47:30
Speaker 1: considered starting the work. That you just thought that you
47:35
Speaker 1: would just get to be de escalated in the moment
47:39
Speaker 1: your entire life.
47:42
Speaker 2: I I same gohosts for me. I never ever claimed
47:48
Speaker 2: or would claim that I'm perfect, that I don't have flaws,
47:51
Speaker 2: that I don't have red flags. Hell, I have a
47:53
Speaker 2: lot of them. I've been through so much shit. I've
47:56
Speaker 2: been through so many traumas. Of course that is going
47:58
Speaker 2: to leave scars. But the thing is, I went to
48:01
Speaker 2: therapy for I think fucking eleven twelve years. I didn't
48:05
Speaker 2: sit there and just be I did the work, and
48:08
Speaker 2: so I know what my flaws are. Just like you said,
48:11
Speaker 2: I know what my red flags are, and I can
48:15
Speaker 2: live with them because I know how to cope with
48:17
Speaker 2: them in a way that doesn't harm other people. And
48:20
Speaker 2: if somebody points out to me that, hey, something that
48:23
Speaker 2: I do is harming them, then I will try everything
48:26
Speaker 2: I fucking can to change that behavior, because if my
48:29
Speaker 2: behavior harms anyone around me, that is problematic. And likewise,
48:34
Speaker 2: if we call out men on their problematic behavior, they
48:39
Speaker 2: should at least consider it's to be an option that
48:43
Speaker 2: we might, in a wild fancy be right.
48:48
Speaker 1: Heaven forbid, we're right what, We're just naggy what I
48:57
Speaker 1: watched them. I mean, honestly, I could have cried over it,
49:00
Speaker 1: but it was a TikTok. And this woman had like
49:05
Speaker 1: a beach bag and a cooler and like a baby
49:07
Speaker 1: bag and her infant in her arms, and she was
49:10
Speaker 1: trying to get the toddler out of the car and
49:14
Speaker 1: the toddler and we've all been there. I stepped on
49:17
Speaker 1: the cat yesterday and honestly, like fell to my knees
49:20
Speaker 1: and was like, I'm so sorry, and I will just
49:23
Speaker 1: go to bed. I will ground myself, like I'm done.
49:27
Speaker 1: The toddler got out of the car, I think, quicker
49:30
Speaker 1: than she anticipated, and got behind her. So now this
49:33
Speaker 1: woman who has like literally every item she owns blocking
49:38
Speaker 1: her peripheral vision, has tripped over her own toddler holding
49:43
Speaker 1: her infant, knocking said toddler to the ground as she's falling,
49:49
Speaker 1: and her husband is just like playing Candy Crush on
49:54
Speaker 1: his phone as she juggles their entire life in her hands.
49:59
Speaker 1: And I was like, motherfucker because and a woman stitched
50:03
Speaker 1: it and she's like, stop asking us why we're divorcing you.
50:08
Speaker 2: Stop stop asking us why we're angry, stop asking us why.
50:15
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this like I would love to get
50:19
Speaker 2: that video. This is the prime example of why women
50:24
Speaker 2: have begun to stand up for themselves because this we
50:28
Speaker 2: just don't tal right this shit anymore, and rightly so, and.
50:32
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be because also what ends up happening? And
50:35
Speaker 1: women wrote it in the comments and they're like, could
50:38
Speaker 1: you even imagine telling him it would have been nice
50:41
Speaker 1: to have gotten some help, because then it's you're always
50:45
Speaker 1: on me for something. Nothing I do is ever right.
50:48
Speaker 1: I like, how was I supposed to know that you
50:51
Speaker 1: needed help? You didn't say anything?
50:54
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't even know what to say to that.
51:00
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to say to that, because.
51:02
Speaker 1: I'm throwing out the goddamn script all of the things
51:05
Speaker 1: that we've been told to just be like, well, you know,
51:07
Speaker 1: you really need to look. You have to hold their
51:10
Speaker 1: face in between your two hands, and you have to
51:13
Speaker 1: make sure that they're making direct eye contact with you,
51:16
Speaker 1: and you have to go. When my hands are too
51:19
Speaker 1: full to carry all of the groceries, I would like
51:22
Speaker 1: it if you took some of the groceries, and I promise,
51:30
Speaker 1: and I vow in front of God, our family and
51:34
Speaker 1: friends and this person who got officiated on the internet,
51:38
Speaker 1: to ask you every time I'm carrying all of the
51:41
Speaker 1: groceries for you to help, because I understand that you
51:45
Speaker 1: won't consider me at all during the course of our marriage.
51:50
Speaker 2: It is bizarre to me. It is just bizarre. I
51:54
Speaker 2: know that I've said that sentence like twenty times already,
51:57
Speaker 2: Like take a shot every time I say something's bizarre.
51:59
Speaker 2: But this shit is fucking bizarre.
52:02
Speaker 1: It's bizarre. It's bizarre that I hate saying that it's
52:07
Speaker 1: been allowed to have gone on for so long because
52:09
Speaker 1: that makes it like our responsibility, because we're always being
52:14
Speaker 1: the ones taking responsibility for our own oppression, our own murders,
52:20
Speaker 1: our own assaults, all of it. It's like, well, did
52:22
Speaker 1: you try? Did you try to appease the men a
52:25
Speaker 1: little bit harder? But it's just so odd that even
52:29
Speaker 1: though you're talking about it in twenty twenty three, I.
52:32
Speaker 2: Can't get over it. Why is this a conversation that
52:35
Speaker 2: we still need to have and like urgently need to have.
52:39
Speaker 2: Why Why did I end up writing a nine page
52:42
Speaker 2: letter explaining toxic masculiness? You see my goddamn x Oh
52:46
Speaker 2: my god? The hell?
52:49
Speaker 1: Because because I would bet that he was well aware
52:52
Speaker 1: that toxic masculinity is a thing. They just always assume
52:56
Speaker 1: it isn't their problem. Not me, I've never anyone, not me,
53:02
Speaker 1: I've never cheated. But you're still living in the system.
53:07
Speaker 1: And also yes you also yes you, we also yes you.
53:16
Speaker 1: We are rounding up on the hours. So let's go
53:19
Speaker 1: ahead and move to the ending part of the show
53:22
Speaker 1: with our manifestations and takeaways.
53:25
Speaker 2: Positivity.
53:26
Speaker 1: I'd like positivity. As someone who is living in the
53:31
Speaker 1: year twenty twenty three, What has been your best takeaway
53:35
Speaker 1: to offer to people about what it means to be
53:38
Speaker 1: in a relationship and dating in a world of male privilege.
53:44
Speaker 2: Well, if you explain to your partner how their behavior
53:56
Speaker 2: stems from toxic masculinity, and they waver it off the
54:00
Speaker 2: table repeatedly to a degree that they begin gaslighting you
54:07
Speaker 2: that the things that happened didn't actually happen. Then honey,
54:10
Speaker 2: it's time to get the fuck out. And that's what
54:14
Speaker 2: I learned.
54:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, And I'll buy you a present after
54:20
Speaker 1: it happens. I'll like, I'll throw you a party.
54:25
Speaker 2: We'll throw you a fucking hella epic party.
54:28
Speaker 1: Honestly, like, dumping men is part of the revolution. It
54:32
Speaker 1: is an act of discourse. It is rebellion.
54:36
Speaker 2: Yes it is, and maybe here for it.
54:39
Speaker 1: Maybe that's my takeaway. It's like breaking up with men
54:42
Speaker 1: is in fact part of the revolution. But I also
54:46
Speaker 1: think my my big takeaway is you. You get to
54:53
Speaker 1: feel like they're boring, You get to feel like they're
54:56
Speaker 1: not someone you want to be in a relationship with.
54:58
Speaker 1: You get to look at this person and ask yourself
55:01
Speaker 1: every day do I even like you? And if the
55:05
Speaker 1: answer is no, or even maybe not like a week, maybe,
55:09
Speaker 1: then I gotta go. Life is short. Climate change is real.
55:15
Speaker 1: We live in danger every day as women like I
55:18
Speaker 1: gotta go.
55:19
Speaker 2: We are all gonna inevitably die. We are all gonna
55:23
Speaker 2: be be subjects to climate change, to all the horrible
55:27
Speaker 2: things that are happening to women globally, to oppression internationally.
55:31
Speaker 2: It is, honey. We don't have time to stick anywhere where.
55:35
Speaker 2: We're like rain forward. We don't have time to stay
55:41
Speaker 2: anywhere that in any place that doesn't celebrate us. Honey,
55:44
Speaker 2: if it doesn't bring you money, orgasms, happiness, or whatever
55:49
Speaker 2: else positivity, get out, get it out, run, get the
55:53
Speaker 2: fuck out. Bye, bye, bye, Felicia.
55:56
Speaker 1: We will be the first people to buy you a present.
56:01
Speaker 2: Yes, Queen, Yes, dump them.
56:04
Speaker 1: Dump him. I'm making so many Taylor Swift friendship bracelets
56:08
Speaker 1: there will be some leftover. If you break up with
56:11
Speaker 1: your man as a result of this episode, I will
56:14
Speaker 1: give you your favorite Taylor Swift song in a bracelet.
56:18
Speaker 2: Take this. If you, as a result of this episode,
56:22
Speaker 2: decides to break up your relationship with some dude of
56:25
Speaker 2: whatever kind, I will personally stand to it that I
56:28
Speaker 2: will send you the postcard collection that we have to
56:31
Speaker 2: offer on the.
56:31
Speaker 1: Sweatshow dot org. And those postcards are fucking brilliant. They're
56:36
Speaker 1: so cute, They're so cute. If people actually use them
56:40
Speaker 1: to send like lovely postcards to their friends. Amazing. If
56:44
Speaker 1: I would frame them in my home.
56:48
Speaker 2: I feel honored. I feel honored.
56:51
Speaker 1: What is your manifestation? What are you hoping for the
56:55
Speaker 1: collective as a whole.
56:57
Speaker 2: As a whole, for the collective, I hope that women
57:00
Speaker 2: stand up for themselves, that they use their voice to
57:03
Speaker 2: be heard. I hope that men realize that sometimes taking
57:08
Speaker 2: a step away from the mic is the right thing
57:11
Speaker 2: to do to make room for those who are being oppressed,
57:16
Speaker 2: to make room for minorities, to create space for those
57:20
Speaker 2: who are not being heard in modern day media, and
57:23
Speaker 2: for me personally. We're heading into the recording days of
57:26
Speaker 2: a new season at The Slut Show, so I would
57:29
Speaker 2: love for that season to blow the fuck up, obviously,
57:32
Speaker 2: but mainly if it helps just one person, that is
57:36
Speaker 2: everything I did it for.
57:37
Speaker 1: So yeah, yes, I love that you're already going back
57:41
Speaker 1: into another season. Your show is so needed. I think
57:46
Speaker 1: my manifestation is if Ellen's going to say that they're
57:49
Speaker 1: going to give us an inch, then we're going to
57:51
Speaker 1: take a mile. So every time we see a little
57:54
Speaker 1: bit of room, we claim it. Every time we're sitting
58:00
Speaker 1: at a table and someone says something ignorant. We have
58:02
Speaker 1: a fact to battle their ignorance, whether it be about
58:07
Speaker 1: domestic violence, whether it be about laws that oppress women,
58:11
Speaker 1: whether it be about the emotional labor that women do
58:16
Speaker 1: compared to men in their relationship. We are coming every day. Ready,
58:22
Speaker 1: We're ready.
58:23
Speaker 2: Be annoying, be loud, be rude, be.
58:27
Speaker 1: That girl, and for every girl, for every person of color,
58:33
Speaker 1: for every member of the queer community who is sticking up,
58:37
Speaker 1: taking a chance, making waves. I hope that there are
58:42
Speaker 1: four other people at your table backing you up, if
58:45
Speaker 1: it be with a cheer, if it be with telling
58:47
Speaker 1: that other privileged person you're an asshole. Did you just
58:50
Speaker 1: hear that? Like, did you just hear what they say
58:54
Speaker 1: that makes you an asshole?
58:56
Speaker 2: You don't have those people at the table. Find a
58:58
Speaker 2: new table, honey.
58:59
Speaker 1: Find a new table. DM me in real time to
59:03
Speaker 1: be like I just said this at a table and
59:05
Speaker 1: no one backed me up. I'll send you a voice
59:07
Speaker 1: membo backing you up and you can play it for
59:10
Speaker 1: your table.
59:11
Speaker 2: Haha. I'll send you on to Yeah.
59:14
Speaker 1: See, we got it. I've got nothing but time to
59:17
Speaker 1: create discourse on the internet.
59:19
Speaker 2: We got you, honey.
59:22
Speaker 1: Every time someone says something ignorant on my YouTube. I
59:25
Speaker 1: come with receipts, I come with articles, I come with facts,
59:28
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you're a moron. Just I'm not gonna
59:32
Speaker 1: tell I'm not gonna tell you that you're a moron,
59:35
Speaker 1: but I am going to give you so much information
59:36
Speaker 1: that you go home tonight feeling stupid. Yeah, speaking of
59:44
Speaker 1: your amazing show and postcards and just the lovely and
59:47
Speaker 1: amazing person that you are. Tell the tolerators once again
59:51
Speaker 1: where they can connect with you.
59:54
Speaker 2: Head over to our Instagram at the slut Show with
59:57
Speaker 2: Ellen Moore. Yes, the slut Show as in slut apps.
1:00:00
Speaker 2: Fucking lutely, we have a beautiful website called www Dot
1:00:05
Speaker 2: thesludshow dot org where you can find all of our
1:00:07
Speaker 2: slutty science articles diving into all of the episodes and
1:00:12
Speaker 2: backing up with information, facts, and it's a fact check,
1:00:16
Speaker 2: piece of journalistic evidence as to what we're discussing in
1:00:20
Speaker 2: the episode. Check that out if you are interested, follow
1:00:24
Speaker 2: us on Instagram. That would be fantastic. Check out the
1:00:26
Speaker 2: six well five seasons that we have to binge in
1:00:28
Speaker 2: the sixth one that is coming your way very soon.
1:00:31
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'd love to see you over there.
1:00:34
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for always being a willing partner
1:00:38
Speaker 1: in this endeavor of till all the men I'm tolerated before,
1:00:41
Speaker 1: and for all of the work that you do over
1:00:44
Speaker 1: there on the Slut Show.
1:00:46
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me again. And I
1:00:48
Speaker 2: have never felt like a more appropriate guest as to
1:00:52
Speaker 2: all the men I've tolerated before. Oh my god, I
1:00:57
Speaker 2: believe them opening up about this.
1:01:00
Speaker 1: Of course you are, because we have to open up
1:01:02
Speaker 1: about it, and you're strong in your brave and we've
1:01:05
Speaker 1: lived through a hell of a lot to just be like, well,
1:01:07
Speaker 1: I guess I'm accepting this today.
1:01:10
Speaker 2: It's time to tell our stories unapologetically because this is
1:01:13
Speaker 2: the way it is. And so long as we're telling
1:01:15
Speaker 2: the truth, may God stand by us.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: That's right, Uh, tolerators, you know how to get a
1:01:21
Speaker 1: hold of us. All of our socials are in a
1:01:23
Speaker 1: handy dandy ad at the beginning and possibly end of
1:01:27
Speaker 1: this episode. But if you want to make good on
1:01:30
Speaker 1: my promises, to leave you a voice memo if no
1:01:33
Speaker 1: one's standing up to you, up for you in a
1:01:36
Speaker 1: crowded room, or if you dump your man in direct
1:01:42
Speaker 1: correlation to what you heard today on this episode, you
1:01:45
Speaker 1: can DM me at men. I've tolerated pod and I
1:01:49
Speaker 1: hope I send out some bracelets, and I hope I
1:01:51
Speaker 1: record some voice memos because we all deserve better.
1:01:55
Speaker 2: I can't wait to be sending out the postcard collection.
1:01:57
Speaker 2: It's coming your way if you dump them.
1:02:00
Speaker 1: And remember, tolerators, you don't have to smile through anything
1:02:04
Speaker 1: you're tolerating, including being partnered with someone who wouldn't even
1:02:08
Speaker 1: consider the fact that when you struggle you need help,
1:02:13
Speaker 1: or consider the fact that, because of the privilege they've
1:02:16
Speaker 1: lived under, you have suffered. Smiles are for joy.