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Stop Asking Me To Choose · Inside The Consulting Room - Understanding the Child Behind the Behaviour

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome back.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kim Lee, child and adolescent psychotherapist.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been posting recently because I've been so incredibly busy with my various professional responsibilities.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm now returning and resuming the series entitled I Wish My Parents Would.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: In the first episode, I talked about the nature of how it is that children are unable to say things to parents and the reasons why.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not because they've got bad parents, it's because very often children will protect their parents and sometimes protect themselves from the things that they want to be able to say.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: In the consulting room, it's different.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's different because they don't have to look after my feelings.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think by alerting us to the sorts of things that children think about and feel unable to say helps us open up our own curiosity about what the child might be experiencing.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And just because the child doesn't say anything doesn't mean nothing is happening.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really quite important because quite often what will happen is that the unsaid things accumulate.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And because they can't find expression through words, they find expression through behavior.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the behavior becomes the focus rather than the curiosity into what the what what the behavior might mean.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, if they really felt that way, they would.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we have we have to look at this differently.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I'm focusing on when the child says, I wish my parents would stop asking me to choose.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm talking about here is children who are caught in the crossfire, when two parents are in opposition, when the parents may be separated or divorced, and when the child is maybe moving from one house to the other, or maybe just being caught in the sort of conflict between the two parents that might find expression in other ways.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So here's a little extract.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know you never actually said I have to choose one of you, but I notice what happens when I say I've had a good time.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Your face changes.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you go quiet and sometimes you ask questions, and sometimes you say, Well, I'm glad somebody's happy.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So now when you ask me how it went, I say, fine.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I leave out the funny bits, I just say it was fine.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish I could tell you about my life without worrying about what it will do to you.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wish that loving one of you didn't feel like hurting the other.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: These opening words, an imagined child's voice, yet I have heard them in different ways many, many times.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they give expression to a difficulty that can remain hidden beneath what seems like an ordinary conversation.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some children, the request to choose is explicit.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you want to live with?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tell your mother you want to stay here.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you really love me, you wouldn't want to go.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that last one I've not heard directly, but variations on the same theme I have.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But most children encounter something that is quieter.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a parent becomes distant after the child's had a happy weekend elsewhere, or a grandparent makes a remark and someone rolls their eyes at the mention of the other household.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody necessarily says, you've got to take my side.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the child begins to understand that belonging comes with conditions.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: When parents separate, there may be grief, anger, relief, fear, or a mixture of all four.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: One parent may feel abandoned, another may feel like they've finally escaped an unbearable relationship.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there may have been betrayal, there may have been frightening behaviors and serious concerns.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Adults need somewhere to take those experiences.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the difficulty comes when a child becomes the person expected to receive them.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And even if that expectation isn't explicit, it will nonetheless be experienced by the child.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a child is going to know that a parent has been hurt.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: They may have witnessed it, they may have seen the effects after an event, and they become remarkably attentive to the emotional state of the parent.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: They learn when to speak, what to leave out, what names create tension, and which answers bring relief.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: A child might discover that saying, I miss you every minute produces a smile, whereas saying, Oh, we had a lovely time might produce silence.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: After enough experiences like that, the answer just begins to organize itself around the parent's needs.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to stress the point here.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is not about criticizing parents.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It really isn't.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think those who make more explicit requests are worthy of questioning.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm really concerned about is how the child experiences, how they translate, the sense they make of things.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we know the difference between thought sense and felt sense.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: The thought sense is the thinking part, whereas the felt sense is the experiencing part.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that's the bit that predominates.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine a child arriving home after spending time with the other parent.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: They come through the door carrying a bag, half finished drinking a story they want to tell.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Something funny happened, or they learned how to ride a bike and they went somewhere new.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then they look at the waiting parent's face and the story changes.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, it wasn't that good.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't do much really.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I want but I wanted to come home.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these things might be entirely true, but there might also be an is an attempt to restore closeness.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: We can't simply know by deciding which explanation suits us.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have to make it possible for the child to speak freely, including when their experience is different from what we hoped or expected.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is because a child who fears the consequences of an honest answer has something to think about before answering.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is that okay for me to say this?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Will you still be okay with me if I enjoyed myself?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can I miss the other parent while I'm here with you?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Will you need me to make you feel better?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now these aren't tangible thoughts, they are subjective reactions, and we see them in children's faces and how they behave.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So over time, some children become careful editors of their own lives.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: They've got one account for one household and another account for the other.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: They might hide affection, disappointment, excitement, or sadness.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they may say what they believe each adult is able to hear.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Then the adults compare accounts and ask, why is this child telling different stories?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before we call it dishonesty or manipulation, we should become curious about what happens around the telling.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: What response does each version bring?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: What might the child be trying to preserve?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the kind of responses are really unpleasant.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like your father.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the pressure reaches beyond where a child spends their time and it enters their sense of who they are.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like your father, or that's your mother speaking.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's coming out in you.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And often those words are spoken in anger.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: The adult may mean that behavior, the behavior reminds them of something painful, but the child may hear a much more personal message.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: There is something in you that I cannot stand.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: A laugh, an expression, a temperament, even a way of standing can be can become caught up in an adult's resentment.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the child can't simply put those parts of themselves outside the front door.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: They need permission and room to discover who they are without feeling that a resemblance makes them guilty.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can address a child's behavior directly.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: We can say things like, I won't let you speak to me like that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: We need to talk about what happened.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's no need to make the other parent part of the accusation.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Here's something else, and it's called listening, when a child doesn't want to go.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is this is a really tricky one.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to come back to it under a different a different podcast which has to do with contact and a 16-page booklet that I've produced with regard to the law and how children get compromised and the presumption of contact changes in law, etc.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: But listening when a child doesn't want to go.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's an essential distinction here.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Giving children freedom from adult loyalties must include freedom to tell us when something is wrong.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: A child who says, I don't want to go, needs a thoughtful response.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: There may be a difficulty with transitions, they may miss the parent they're leaving, there may be tensions in the other household or experiences that frighten or harm them.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now we should listen without supplying the answer in advance.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes have said to children, so what is it that feels difficult?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And is it something that you're worried might happen?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and my saying that because they don't have to protect my feelings, can very often in time tell me quite a lot.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: If a child is describing abuse, intimidation, neglect, or fear, the adults need to take that seriously, and I certainly do, and act on it appropriately, and by which I mean safeguarding intervention.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I try and help parents first of all.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that I mean in the interests of the child, if I and the parents can work together, then that dramatically reduces the need for any other kind of intervention.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: If the parents or a parent won't engage, then it goes to the next step.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: You see, I think there are things that parents can do differently.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So start with the moment your child returns.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let them arrive.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: They may need food, quiet, familiar activity, a little time before talking.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: A transition doesn't have to begin with questions.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I have heard cases where you know the child returns or the young person returns and they face investigation.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what did you do?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: What have you done today?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Did you do your homework?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you, you know, and so on and so forth.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Come on now, let just let the child land.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Give them the space to step into.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the other thing is when they do speak, try to receive what they're telling you and their experience rather than explaining your own.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: If they enjoyed themselves, that sounds great.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: If they missed you, I missed you too.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad we're together.