Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #8: Tom Ward on Being a NexGen Mortgage Originator

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Ep #8: Tom Ward on Being a NexGen Mortgage Originator · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute.
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Your number one source for truth in Mortgage Marketing.
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Hello, everybody.
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It's Jeff.
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It's him for welcome to another session of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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I'm glad you're here.
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Once again, we're bringing it for you today.
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My special guest, I'm very honored to have, is Tom Ward, a quick bio about Tom.
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He's been in the mortgage and real estate industry for probably longer than most of us listening
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to this right now, upwards of 30 years, both as a real estate broker owner, CEO and founder
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of Majestic Consulting.
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He's spoken with and consulted and trained thousands of mortgage loan officers, companies
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across the country.
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He's, of course, now the CEO of Path to Buy, which is a very cool new platform that speaks
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directly to the changes we're seeing in the market with first time home buyers, boomer
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ring buyers, and how we as loan officers need to position ourselves as educators by providing
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value-added content and resources, and Tom's really doing a lot of really cool stuff with
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Path to Buy.
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He's got something that you're going to be excited to hear about called a seven minute
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webinar for first time home buyers, so I'm really excited to bring Tom on today, and
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Tom, thanks for making time.
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Welcome.
2:36
Well, thanks, Jeff.
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A lot of pressure on that.
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Yes, sure.
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No pressure here, man.
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We're just here to share.
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I don't like to go too long on the bios because it's usually better for you to tell your
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story, so maybe for the listeners who maybe aren't familiar with you if you want to give
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the quick rundown on your background and what's kind of brought you to Path to Buy today.
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Yeah, it's interesting.
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I started out selling real estate when Prime was at 21%, so it was kind of wild.
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I managed a company of 10 salespeople for a guy, it was essentially 21 franchise, that
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during that market we sold the house a day for 180 straight days with just 10 sales
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people.
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So I've seen the tough times with regards to that whole economy then, you talk about rates
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being a 21%, it was bizarre with what was going on there.
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Then I evolved and bought one of his franchises, then I wound up opening two others, three
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central 21 franchises, and then started the mortgage company and never took a loan application
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before, so people looked at me like I was an idiot, but bottom line is I was just getting
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a horse service and friend of mine was running a household wholesale at the time in Chicago
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land and said you could fog a mirror and have $25,000 in that worth and get a mortgage
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license.
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So I did and had an adjusted mortgage for 19 years and then kind of saw the handwriting
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on the wall.
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I made a decision to merge that with Cherry Creek mortgage at a Denver in 2006 and everybody
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looks at me and they say, well, you know, while you're a genius to make it that period
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of time.
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One time I was running Tim Brahim and I were close.
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We did a lot of stuff and when he first started a loan toolbox and some of the things
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were going on, but I was a teacher or heart always had been and I had a program called
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One Transaction Thinking, which is, you know, understanding a P&L at a loan level basis
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and that became, you know, pretty popular with what was there.
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But you know, then I kind of turned and I saw, you know, my concern was that I saw the
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first time home bar struggling after a mortgage meltdown is like, you know, they were on the
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sidelines and interest rates were still at all time lows and need 3.5% down payment and,
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you know, house prices were between 10 and 50% the nowhere they're hating and it's like
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couldn't figure out why they weren't standing in line to buy houses and obviously there
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was that fear that was there.
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So, you know, during that period of time, I wrote a book at the tail end of Majestic
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Mortgage called The Empathy Effect and that's where I lived my whole life and premise
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on is understanding things from the other side, right?
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So if I can put myself in the first time home bar shoes, I can really understand how to
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address them and if I'm going to create a product or a solution for what's there, I understand
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it from their perspective, right?
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So I interviewed 318 renters and basically found out that there was a huge appetite still
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to buy a house but they weren't buying a house and, you know, that was the birth of
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Path to Buy, you know, a little or 5 years ago.
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So it's pretty crazy with what's there.
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I mean, the whole thing is evolved, you know, it's pretty cool to be able to see the evolution
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of it because, as I said in the beginning, Path to Buy was my idea, you know, what it's
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become today is a tribute to the membership, but they told me how to make it better.
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You know, I listened and put my ego off to the side and then my team implemented and,
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you know, pretty much what's come today is, you know, it's for that.
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So it's interesting to see what you're doing.
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I mean, the whole training component, you know, so we got a training program to support
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it and everything else which we'll get it to later on.
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Right.
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Yeah, so you mentioned something there that I wanted to pause on for a second.
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You interviewed, how many renters was it?
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318 renters.
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It was just somebody says, well, you come up with that number, it was like, you know,
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my team and I just, you know, I needed to understand, you know, what are they going
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through?
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Why weren't they buying a house and pristine conditions and they all said uncertainty?
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And there happened to be what we call seven and a half obstacles that held them back
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from home ownership, job security, down payment, credit scores, DTI, there was a fifth one
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that was comfort zone according to DPI, they put a title set of guidelines in and then
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misinformation is the number one category.
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You know, because the consumer goes to the internet, this particular consumer, this
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millennial, goes to the internet to look for information and lo and behold, there's bad
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information out there and they're getting misinformed thinking they'd have 20% down on
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the 780 credits, go to buy a house today and they all hear it.
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It's crazy, crazy numbers.
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So seventh was mobility and liquidity.
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We knew the days are gone that you could buy a house close on at six months later.
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So it cover all the closing costs and make a profit.
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And then seven and a half in the beginning of time, believe it or not, was waiting for
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the bottom.
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There were people who were still thinking, especially in Las Vegas, Phoenix, parts of Florida,
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parts of California, they were thinking it was going to drop a little more.
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So they stayed on the sidelines for that.
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That's seven and a half category.
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I'm sure we just, we do the poll every time we talk to our members is it's waiting for
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inventory.
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Uh-huh.
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The inventory market today is bizarre with what's happening with lack of inventory and
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what's going on and interesting to see, you know, where that's at.
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But so there's a lot of a lot of things going on there and everything you just said
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there.
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And it's insightful.
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It's an opportunity.
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It's kind of, I see it as a call to arms for loan officers as well.
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And that's some great insights, by the way, with those interviews of why you discovered
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why these, you know, folks were reluctant to re-enter the market.
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And you make a great point.
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And you and I before we're doing this recording, we talked about the Fannie Mae study that
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came out and talked about the, the point you alluded to, which was the perception out
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there that most consumers are still misled.
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It's a matter of fact, just a quick quote from that.
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The study cited that only 23% involved in that survey were aware of the 3% and 5% down
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payment programs.
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But here's the last point that's, I think, relevant to all us mortgage professionals is
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the study cited lenders as the most influential source of information for getting mortgage
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advice followed by family and friends.
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So what that tells us, and this speaks right to what you're doing with Path to Buy, which
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is probably a good transition, is as you said, there's misinformation in the market.
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There's lots of noise.
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There's, you know, these, these sites that put up half truths and, you know, really don't
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adjust what they're, the stories are for that larger set of the market, the boomerang
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buyers, first time home buyers, people like that.
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So it really comes back to education and us as a loan officer, positioning ourselves
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as a place to come and get quality, authentic truth about, right, the mortgage process today.
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And that is, if I can be assumptive.
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I mean, that's what I see you guys trying to do with Path to Buy is equip mortgage
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professionals with platforms and tools and resources to become that, what I call that
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lighthouse, right, in the industry.
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So maybe elaborate about how you guys are doing that.
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Yeah, it's interesting because in the beginning of time, we started with the training program,
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right, to be able to help train loan officers on understanding this buyer and what to do
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when everything else.
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And we thought that there would be a pretty much of a gravitational pull to create, you
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know, so per se product videos, educational stuff, things like that nature and lo and behold,
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what we found was nobody was doing it.
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So it's almost like we had to do it for them.
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So the interesting thing about that, and I think the loan officer today, Jeff, if you look
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at this and say to yourself, if I was a loan officer starting out in business today,
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I think the days are gone that you become the guy or the girl that's going to prequel
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or pre-approved the home buyer.
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The struggle today is that, especially with rocket mortgage, is that people are just
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thinking it's just that easy to, and we know it's not that easy to just get on your
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iPhone and get approved, right?
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So the illusion that's being created by the folks at Quicken is the fact that says, hey,
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we got this right in front of us and we don't have to worry about it.
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And I think the struggle that loan officers have today is if they're in the mode of, I'll
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do your prequels for you because there's really no unique selling propositions out there
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today.
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You used to use product to be the differentiator.
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I have a pay-option arm, I can wave us, grows for free, 108 day lock program, whatever
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it would be.
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And today, when you go out and make a sales call, you struggle with that.
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So I think the big shift here has to become a loan officer has to view themselves as an
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educator, especially.
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And then the other thing that you have to be able to be careful of, which is what the
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whole idea behind the landing pages and the suite of videos that we created, that we
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licensed to loan officers, is the fact that says, you've got to do it in the format they
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wanted in.
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So you can't just long copy forms or things of that nature or white papers.
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I mean, these guys are flying 10,000 miles an hour and they're flying by the seat of
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their pants.
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So it's like, they've got two minutes to watch a video.
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So basically going down that road and you and I are both huge fans of Dave Ramsey and
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the heart of a teacher, I still remember that quote, that you got to be able to be in
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a situation like that, because I think that you're not going to see that customer today.
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The customer walks in, especially on the misinformation side, they walk into a Realtors
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Open House.
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In their minds, they think they've got to have 20% down.
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The teacher says, how you doing?
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Take a look at the house.
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Your first time homebarrow, yes, I am.
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We're just looking because we're about a year out.
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They don't tell them why.
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Talk to Jeff.
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He's my great L.O.
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Now, we're literally for that and lo and behold, the reason for that is because he's
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thinking he's got 20, he needs 20% down, he's only got 10% down.
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If you position yourself as an educator, you get access to that client.
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Here's a number that'll blow you away.
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It's held true for five years, 22% of the time.
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One of our members who became certified pathobipartner, meets with a customer.
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They had the ability to buy.
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They just didn't know it.
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More than one out of five people have the ability to buy right now, but they just don't
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know it.
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The problem is, how do you get the loan officer?
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It's like e-harmony.
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How do I get the loan officer in front of that customer and we do that through education?
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That's a great point.
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How do we get the loan officer in front of that customer knowing that the Realtor is still
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in front of that customer and for the foreseeable future is going to be the entry point for that
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conversation by and large.
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We know the Realtor ideally, we want to get that referral, but to your point, oftentimes,
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the potential buyer talks them out of it already because of some perception factors around
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qualifying and the Realtor may or may not be skilled at still converting that to get
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the loan officer to talk with them.
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Where do you guys come in?
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How do you help fill in that gap?
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I think that this is obviously we teach it and we use it, it's our product and everything,
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but if somebody just said to me, I'm a brand new loan officer, Tom, what would you suggest?
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I think there's so many loan officers, especially with CFPB coming down on the MSAs and all
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that other stuff that's out there.
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I think that days are gone.
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You could just go run a desk and just hand people business or hope that they hand you
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business.
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The conversions on that are even lower than what people originally anticipated.
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The struggle is I think most loan officers go in and we got a visual of it, just begging
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for business, right?
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I'm a great person.
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This is what I do, I'm on 24-7, call me any time, that type of thing and the struggle
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with that becomes, if you're going in looking for deals, the mindset that I've always
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said, anybody who has ever worked for Majestic Mortgage is a loan officer, he's telling
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you what you're mindset when you're going to talk on a real estate agent and bottom line
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they've been doing this for a while and it just comes down to where they're going to
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help them sell more homes.
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Interesting statistic from some guys that I've been following that are realtor, I can't
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the name escapes me right now, but in the realtor arena doing high-end websites for real estate
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agents, there was a one-to-one ratio for leads to sales in 2011 for real estate agents.
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Three years later in 2014, that became an eight-to-one ratio.
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There was only four million sales in 2011.
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That number jumped a little bit at one of the five million, but there was 40 million leads
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that came in to generate five million sales, so it was an eight-to-one ratio.
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With Edvin of Zillow and realtor.com and everything else, the realtors have got a boatload
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of people coming through, knocking on the door, kicking the tires, and what we teach is
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we teach the loan officers, we call it the shoe box full of maybes.
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After the maybes, because if you can help people make that decision and guide them to
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the finish line on behalf of the real estate agent, and then basically walk that client
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right back to the real estate agent, you're seeing, especially today, because the frustration
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level that I see, especially in the first time homebuyer arena, with people, we hear
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the story every day, where they're just frustrated, they want to look at 10 houses, they made
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10 offers, didn't get any of them, they go back to the sidelines, stay in the game with
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those folks.
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Eventually, tomorrow becomes today, the inventory situation will write itself, because you'll
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have more houses come in the market, appreciation will do that, and we're starting to see appreciation
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in most markets.
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Teaching a loan officer, and I'm not talking Jeff, you and I both been around the block
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enough to know, we know the guys and girls that are out there with some real bad training
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material.
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It's like, you know, just stop at the real estate office and bring red bull and doughnuts.
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That stuff doesn't work, I mean, even calling and listing agents, and it's better than
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doing nothing, but at the end of the day, you need to know exactly what to say, and that's
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always been my philosophy, that's why Tim Breen and I got along so well, is that, you know,
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it's exactly what to say, it's like, what do I say, what do I do, and how do I do it,
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lickety split?
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So again, we use, you know, video format for that to be able to even train to be able
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to call on a real estate agent, so it's interesting to be able to see where it evolves.
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I think the struggle, and I'm not sure this would change, over time, probably in the
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last 10 years, let's face it, with rates from 7 to 6, 6 to 5, and 5 to 4, and then maybe
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4 to 3, and some cash out along the way, and refinance rate and term, and consolidate the
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first and the second, I mean, let's face it, the loan officer really hasn't had the prospect
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in 10 years.
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Right, right.
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So the guys who were really good at this, used their database, they got the people out,
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did some cash outs, did some rate and terms, moved them up, bought a second home, did
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all the other stuff, and the struggle today is that, you know, the business model has
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to match the market, not the other way around, so the first time home buyer, I mean, when
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I asked, well, enough to say, how many of your people in your database does, oh, I got
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2200, it's like, well, how many of those are renters?
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And it's like a deer in the headlights, it's like, well, four, you know, it's, well,
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like, well, why do I need renters?
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Well, yeah, because that's what's buying in the marketplace, right?
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So it's like, you know, novel concept, I mean, one of two things will happen.
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I think we've seen cash outs go by the wayside, and I think on the rate and term rate, I've
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said it for years, one of two things are going to happen, either you're going to refinance
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the whole world at 3.5% or whatever it is, or rates are going to go up, it doesn't make
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any sense for the customer to be able to refinance, so your own success will cause your own demise.
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If you're really good at what you do, take your whole database, get them set at 3.5
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now, what?
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So now eventually you're going to have to go on prospects, but changing, I think that's
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a big thing.
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I think the, when I talk to branch managers, it's a struggle, you know, sometimes because
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it's like, you know, they haven't prospected in a long time, right?
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And they're off the street.
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So what do they say?
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It's like, go call on some real estate agents.
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Okay, boss.
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What do I say?
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It's like, just drop off the rate sheet and tell them how good you are and tell them
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that, you know, this and that is like the, and why don't the loan officers go do that
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is because they look at it and say, well, that's a bunch of crap.
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I can't do that.
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I'm not telling the truth.
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So, you know, what can I do to help the real estate community?
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And that's what's, you know, that's really what it's just, it sounds simple.
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I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty difficult to be able to make sure that you go on and
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do that and call reluctance.
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I had a guy, we just had a, you know, our membership has a mastermind call monthly.
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And I just had a guy that was able to get in front of and now has really taken it to
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the next level.
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The number one real estate agent in Georgia, number one remax agent, Georgia, and how would
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they do it?
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I'm going to use our program, which was truly unique selling proposition, going in, looking
18:43
for, you know, what can I do to help you move them?
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Maybe he's low and behold it found out that, you know, he's really good at what he does.
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The incumbent isn't really that good.
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I was going to fire him anyway and, you know, all kinds of other stuff that went along
18:55
with that.
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So, I mean, it's pretty interesting to be able to see the night.
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Again, I try to keep a pulse on, you know, what's happening?
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I've talked to a few hundred real estate agents in the past, you know, probably six or seven
19:07
months.
19:08
I mean, I've talked to, obviously, a bunch of loan officers and branch managers and things
19:11
like that, and that you're again, I don't know any other way to do it other than say,
19:15
tell me what your pain is.
19:16
What are you experiencing?
19:17
And I mean, we hear it all the time when people say, well, how can we don't go prospect
19:21
is like, well, you know, a number one need to because if you're doing, if you're making,
19:26
you know, it doesn't take you much to do.
19:28
If you're doing $2 million a month and you're making a hundred basis, 20,000, how much
19:31
more money do you need?
19:32
You know, to be able to do that.
19:34
So, yeah.
19:35
And that's, you know, there's obviously a different segments of the market out there of
19:38
those, the folks that are, you know, happy with where they're at in terms of business-wise.
19:41
And then there's the ones who want to grow or build more sustainability long term, and
19:46
I think that's who, you know, you and I both try to speak to.
19:49
And so, obviously, you pointed out that, you know, people haven't had to prospect for
19:54
quite some time.
19:55
And that's been, I guess, a nice luxury, right?
19:57
They've been predicting the, you know, the rise of rates for quite an extended period
20:02
of time now.
20:05
But it's not just just that that's changing the market.
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It's also the influx of the millennials that are coming in and, you know, a large, considering
20:13
how big that population is, right?
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That's a lot of people that are looking to be home buyers, and there's tons of info
20:19
out there, you know, on that.
20:22
Right.
20:23
So, you're facing the same challenge you talked about earlier, which is misperception
20:27
in the market about what it takes to get into a house and buy a house.
20:30
So, what have you seen, what does the, you know, you talk about, it's called the market
20:34
mismatch, right?
20:35
And you've referred to that about because the loan officers are stemmed mostly, refies
20:39
and all that.
20:40
But what's the first time home buyers, or even the boomerang buyers, right?
20:44
What are they looking for today?
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What do we as loan officers need to provide to, you know, position ourselves to win that
20:49
business against the quick and loans, if you will?
20:52
Yeah, I think that, you know, we use an acronym called Travel, which, you know, the T stands
20:58
for Trust, the R stands for Research, you know, the A stands, they've got some form of
21:02
ADD, but not clinically, you know, the V stands for Video, the E stands for Education,
21:08
and then the L stands for Long-Term Thinking.
21:10
So, to really understand what those people are, but I think we've all taken, I mean, most
21:15
of us who have been in the business a while and kind of whether the storm had been sales
21:19
people all over our life, we all taken a sales class, right?
21:22
In the sales class, they always tell you the first thing you do in selling anything, you
21:27
got to build trust with the client, right?
21:29
So, the struggle that you have, it's interesting when I speak live, and I've got a table, and
21:34
I've got a baby boomer sitting right there, and a millennial sitting right there, it's
21:37
the huge dichotomy between the two of those, you know, I asked the baby boomerang, he said,
21:41
tell me how you grew up your life, he said, why didn't you lock me in lock our doors?
21:44
I had the keys in the car, nobody would steal it.
21:47
You know, that type of thing and everything else, and I asked the millennial, I said,
21:51
you think exactly the same way, and they blurt out, I don't trust anybody, because they've
21:55
grown up their whole life with identity theft, and 9-11, and ISIS, and roofies, and I mean,
22:02
everything else under the sun, so these people start out, and especially after mortgage
22:06
meltdown, they start out skeptical.
22:08
So, A101, you've got to be able to build trust with that client, if you don't build trust
22:13
with that client, and I think it's a skill, Jeff, that has been somewhat rusty, in the
22:19
fact, if I've done the same client, I've got him from 7 to 6 and 6 to 5, and did some
22:24
cash out on all the other things, if I've done six mortgages for the guy over the last
22:27
10 years, or five years, or whatever it is, ultimately, I don't need to build trust
22:33
with that client, as long as I don't screw up the deal, right, so the first thing I do
22:38
is I wind up, I do the first loan, and then I make the, he's happy, the second loan,
22:43
the third loan, but I don't have to reestablish trust with him every time, so it's a lost skill
22:48
that either I had, or I never learned, because I got into the business at the point in time,
22:52
so I think it's important we come back to front and center, this is the first thing we
22:55
have to be able to do, especially with this millennial customer, is build trust.
22:59
You talked about the boomerang buyer, the other struggle, these guys have actually lived,
23:04
the horror story of, they have the scars still, oh my gosh, we're doing a, in the beginning
23:11
you talked about the seven minute webinar, and I think that that's what, our membership
23:17
gets a seven minute first time home buyer webinar that's plugged on their page, it's gotten
23:21
rave reviews, I've been doing a lot of stuff over the years, but it's interesting, because
23:26
the guys who have followed me a long time, you know, guys with you 15, 16 years, things
23:32
of that nature of satan, that's the most succinct type way to be able to do it, it started
23:36
out, it had to be tight, I believe the magic number from the research that I did was seven
23:40
minutes, now people look at that and they say, well, you know, what happens, you know,
23:45
how can you cover all that in seven minutes, I mean, just listen to it, because it blows
23:48
your mind, you know, with what's there, but I think the people have an opportunity, you
23:52
know, what are they thinking, I did, after those 318 runners, I did three focus groups across
23:58
the country, and I said, what are your, what are your concerns with home ownership? And
24:03
there was two things that they said, they said they didn't think houses were ever going
24:06
to go up like they used to, and the second part was they thought the tax benefits were
24:10
going to be able to go away. So when you look at those two things, if that's what their
24:14
concerns are, I mean, we revamped our whole video suite that we publish on those, on
24:19
their landing pages, and basically say, what if your house never goes up in value, you
24:23
should just still buy a house. And then we just do a side by side comparison of a, you
24:28
know, what do you owe at the end of a 30 year fixed, nothing, and what do you have it, you
24:32
know, how much equity do you have if you're paid 200, you have 200 inequity, or what do
24:36
you have if you rented, you have nothing, right? So I mean, it's just logically not telling
24:40
them what to do, not selling them what to do, but just being able to show them a side
24:44
by side comparison. And the videos we're talking about here, Jeff, I think that's where most
24:47
people miss it. It's not the video that's in front of the webcam that you got to interview
24:51
out, and, you know, you got to edit it, and you got to go through those, so it's voice
24:55
over PowerPoint, because I think it's much easier to show voice over PowerPoint, especially
25:00
when you're using examples. Oh, yeah, on with that, because I think the customer really
25:04
looks at it, and I think you can do it tighter, because that's where it comes down to making
25:08
sure that you're, you know, tight on time, because that's what they're looking for.
25:12
So, so take me through the process, then, on your website, Path to Buy, which is the
25:19
number two, Path to Buy. And so if I want to join as a loan officer, I mean, what's what's
25:25
involved? What do I get? I mean, I'm on here looking at all these really cool videos. So
25:30
go ahead. Yeah, there's two parts that that's a customary facing site that you're on now,
25:34
which is Path to Buy. So ultimately, a customer will come through there and we're there to
25:39
be able to help educate them. It's more of a dot org mindset. You know, it's what's
25:44
there. Two parts of our program. Number one, I will tell you that the training component
25:49
of this, it's a, we call it next gen originator dot com. There's eight training modules that
25:54
are in there. And ultimately, in those eight training modules, we teach them how, you know,
25:58
what the idiosyncrasies are, the millennials, we talk about, you know, ground floor, runway
26:03
stuff, how to make the sales call. How do you use the path to buy landing page videos,
26:09
seven minute webinar when you're approaching a real estate agent? We have a coaching session
26:14
in between the next one, the next session. And then the fourth one becomes the insurance
26:19
agent. We incorporate an insurance agent. I mean, think about the novel concept. You've
26:24
got an insurance agent who has rental policies, right? They know the expiration date of when
26:29
the guy's lease is going to be. Talk about valuable information, right? And they're struggling.
26:34
I interviewed, I don't know how many, it was probably in the 60 or 70 range when I interviewed
26:39
the insurance agents. And here's what I found. They make, they make about 10 dollars of
26:43
policy on a rental policy. They make 10 times that commission on a homeowner's policy.
26:48
Every one of the guys that I interviewed converted less than 20% of their existing runner
26:53
policy database to a homeowner's policy. So they'll lose an 80% of their business. And
26:58
they don't know what to say to the consumer. So I mean, there's not something to do on
27:01
a rental policy. You can't call up and ask them if they did you get a new dresser last
27:05
week. I mean, it's not, I mean, it's crazy as that sounds. It's not like, you know,
27:10
you're going to do a checkup with them or anything like that. So I think it just comes
27:12
down to you and I both know this from being in other circles that it's business 101.
27:19
It's not the mortgage business. It's like saying, I need to build my database. So how am
27:23
I going to do that? This guy's already done it. Can I cross market with him? Consumer
27:28
Direct is a big buzz. The one session, the one session we have with Consumer Direct.
27:33
How do you get in front of people that are unattached to a real estate agent? That's a huge
27:37
value to be able to bring to that. But then you got to know it exactly what to say. And
27:40
we added two modules recently, which is Facebook, the whole Facebook component and then
27:45
specifically Facebook ads. And we actually demo, you know, one of our members will volunteer
27:52
and we'll put, we use $35 as a charge on their credit card and basically show them how to
27:57
build an ad. You know, this fork is that's where all these guys are at and the circles that
28:00
are out there. So the training component is one side. And then, you know, I'll do is I'll give
28:06
you a, I don't have a specific, everybody has their own landing page. So, you know, bottom
28:10
line is that there's a, you know, a landing page is designed specifically for the first time
28:15
homebar. Right? There's an actress that comes on that basically talks about the sub-menor webinar.
28:19
We tell them about the video suite that's on the right hand side. You know, what if my house
28:23
number goes up in value? What will my rent be in the future? You know, all the other things that
28:27
are with it. But that's the problem. That's the, that's the stuff that they license from us.
28:31
So this is essentially, I mean, I'll call it a widget for lack of better descriptions where they
28:34
would, you know, have these various video topics featured on their website.
28:38
Correct. No, total turnkey. They don't do nothing. They don't do anything. Right.
28:41
I mean, it comes down to there. And I don't, I don't say my name. They don't know if it's my name
28:45
or Jeff's at that point. I mean, I basically come on and basically talk about it. And that's what
28:49
they're licensing from us because it's so hard today to get video content to deliver, you know,
28:56
to them. And it's, it's a matter of being able to just sit back and show them, you know,
29:00
for what's there. But again, it's educational mindset. Trust me, there's no magic pill here.
29:06
There's not, you still have to have a skill set. You still have to, you know, you have to call
29:11
people back, right? It's not a, this is no magic bullet by any source of imagination. But what this
29:16
does is it warms up the client. It gets them to the point of being able to say, wow, I really like
29:23
what this guy Jeff has got on his side. I think he's a good guy. I think it's, you know, it's some
29:28
of the things that he represents. It's what you're representing yourself. And the quality is awesome.
29:33
And it's a, I mean, we've gotten ray reviews on the quality. It's not like, you know, we're looking
29:37
through a fish bowl and a webcam or something of that nature. It doesn't look like that is for us.
29:41
Yeah, they're all professionally designed. And really what you're doing there is, like we talked
29:47
about earlier, is you're really a pivoting or adjusting for the market of the moment, meaning
29:52
this is how buyers are consuming content. This is how they're researching and finding
29:58
mortgage and real estate professionals to do business with these days, right? And if you're not
30:02
providing those means by which they're going to engage with you online, social media, et cetera,
30:09
then you're just not part of the discussion. You don't even exist. You know, you're the secret.
30:12
They're going to go elsewhere. They're just going to leave the leave your page and go elsewhere.
30:15
They don't need to know about reverse mortgages, refinances. I think that's where everybody misses it.
30:21
Content has to be specific to the group, right? There's a move up or move down homebar. Your
30:26
content should change with that. We even found in the beginning, I only had three categories of
30:30
purchases. I had the move up or move down homebar. I had the renter. And I had the investor and
30:37
second homebar. The problem is the renter has two different mindsets. If I'm a renter who I
30:42
owned a home before and a renter who's never owned a home before. So we've got to attack that at
30:47
two different levels. There's a product that we've got that is in the queue. We just haven't
30:56
had a chance to get to it. If we think the boomerang buyer is going to be the buyer of the future.
31:00
So it's what we call path to rebuy. But that more than our won't be seven minutes. It'll probably
31:06
be in the eight. It looks like we might be able to just be underneath nine. So being able to say
31:10
it's in the eight minute. But we have to address the psychology behind how they left, you know,
31:17
if you think of the trauma that everybody went through as far as they got a family and they're
31:21
moving from a four bedroom house to a two bedroom apartment. And how they let their family down. I
31:25
mean, there's some stuff that's out there that, you know, and the bottom line to that is becomes,
31:30
you know, I've heard story that they don't want to give the SOBs any money like too big to fail.
31:35
Right. And stuff like that. But at the end, at the end of 30 years, 30 years, yeah, you might
31:39
have won that battle. But at the end of the day, you kind of penalize your family. So
31:44
well, you can't control that, right? But what you can control is just to recognize where are the
31:49
future buyers coming from. It's first time home buyers, it's boomerang buyers, right? You know,
31:55
the like you said earlier about the folks that have refied and traded up. I mean, there's always
31:58
going to be that segment of the market. But you know, the first time buyers and boomerangs
32:03
are making up, I can't remember the exact stat, but it's well over 30% of the market. And we know
32:08
that millennials in particular are motivated to buy, if I recall, about 30% of them want to plan to
32:13
buy within the next five years. But there's the perception issues that they have that we've
32:18
talked about that. So real quickly, tell me then, this stuff like the seven-minute webinar,
32:23
the videos, the landing page, are these behind, you know, does somebody need to submit their
32:29
email to begin to digest these? How do you usually set these up? Yeah, it's interesting.
32:34
That's why when I told you in the beginning, the beginning was my idea when it's become
32:37
today's tribute to the member. We started with something we used to, we called it an academy.
32:41
We called it the Path of I Academy. And it would be the design of it, it's called a squeeze page
32:45
in the internet marketing world where you just give them a little bit and try to squeeze them,
32:49
their information out, you know, there's their name and their email address, right?
32:53
Failed miserably. I mean, it was very disappointing to me because, and the struggle with that was
32:58
that we didn't, we undercalled that the millennial was not apt to give up their name and their
33:04
email address in exchange for that. So I went to the experts, I subscribed to some pretty high-powered
33:09
guys and we've coined the phrase of a reverse landing page. We give them more information up front
33:17
and then as we get them to the point of where it is, then that's where the whole seven-minute
33:20
webinar comes over off to the side and says, hey, sign up for the seven-minute webinar and then
33:24
we do ask them for their name and their email address. I think the biggest thing that we've
33:29
done, I call it, you know, it's snopes.com is, right? I mean, as far as verifying, you know,
33:34
or you see in political world, they talked about the verifiers or whatever they call those guys,
33:39
the fact checkers, right? That are out there in the political world. And I think that what we
33:45
try to position the loan officer is that they're snopes.com for the mortgage information, right?
33:51
Get them off of, if I can get them off of everybody else's bogus site, the crap that's out there
33:57
on YouTube, I mean, I'm old enough to remember that you used to have two sources before you could
34:03
print anything, right? I mean, the old days of all the presidents' men, you know, in the Nixon era
34:09
where the guys would have to verify before they could print anything. Well, now you put anything
34:13
on the internet. The struggle with the internet is there's so much information on it and the other
34:17
part of it is there's no purging of bad information. There's no, somebody is out there that says,
34:22
there's an expert. So that's the confusion and we all know a confused mind does nothing. So
34:27
next thing, you know, it's, it's interesting. I got to tell you a great story. There's a $40
34:31
million real estate agent. I won't say the market, a $40 million real estate agent. A good friend
34:39
of mine's daughter is asking me for advice. And he's saying, I want to give my daughter some cash
34:46
to buy a house, right? He says, how much is she going to need? And an 800,000 dollar purchase price
34:52
because it's in a really high end market right there. So how much do I need? I said, you can get
34:56
buy a 10% down, right? This $40 million real estate agent did not know that you could have 90%
35:04
financing on an $800,000 house. So, but you know, here's the struggle. Nobody wants to challenge her.
35:12
She's $40 million. She's the czar of real estate in the market, right? Who's going to
35:16
challenge her, right? But at the end of the day, think about how much money is being left on the
35:20
table. There is an expert in the market that's saying, oh, no, you got to have 20% down and all the
35:24
sudden, you know, we bow down to her and she's a great real estate agent. I've talked to her.
35:29
But the bottom line is she's got wrong information. So as she's conveying wrong information
35:34
to the customer, you just struggle with that. So this is a top producer that's out there. So I
35:38
think that as we all know, you and I both agree to this concept, you have to be learned in the
35:44
marketplace. Somebody says, what would you do today? I just keep learning, just keep wanting to
35:48
learn more. But you got to adapt to the situation. I'm trying to think it was it was a rich day at
35:53
poor debt or something like that. Sometimes people make decisions on old information, right? So if
35:59
you're making a decision on old information, that's just as bad as not having any information,
36:05
right? So you just struggle with that whole thought process. I think that's what you got to be
36:09
able to shift to. Somebody says to me, you know, what's the difference? And we've coined the phrase
36:13
of a path of my partner, the real estate is engaged to it. And again, it's a matter of, does it work?
36:19
Yeah, it works because I, you know, it's been crafted by what they need. You know, the real estate
36:25
community to adapt to them to know they've got eight to one ratio on leads versus purchases,
36:30
purchase sales, you got to help them with that. I mean, I've interviewed guys that get, I had a
36:35
guy in Minnesota, I got 3,500, a real estate agent gets 3,500 first time homebuyer leads a week,
36:40
a month, 3,500 from where? He's got a real elaborate site that's got all the down payment programs
36:47
and everything else on it is bizarre. You know, if what's there, he says, Tom, my struggle is not
36:51
getting leads. My struggles convert them. You know, so it just comes down to, you know, a loan
36:57
officer, what advice would you give a loan officer is what I said to him. And basically, he said,
37:02
Tom, just stay, if you can help me convert some of these, which is the direction we've been going
37:06
for years, but it just reaffirms that, you know, throughout the process. And all markets are
37:11
different. I think today we're starting to see, I think back 10 years ago, Jeff, and you'll
37:15
get a test of this 10 years ago, we viewed the whole United States of America as a market.
37:24
Today, it is far more regionalized than I ever has been before. Southern California versus
37:30
Northern California, Texas versus Colorado versus Chicago versus Iowa. All these people have
37:37
different idiosyncrasies. So you got to make sure that you understand, you know, where they're
37:41
going. I applaud you for what you're doing as far as trying to keep the real, you know, all the
37:46
people in the business cutting edge, because I think that's where that's your direction of what
37:50
you're going. And there's, you know, kudos to you for spending your time and your energy and
37:56
your dollars. It's meant to be able to help those guys, because I think that in the olden days,
38:01
you know, when when Tim started loan toolbox, that was this whole genre.
38:05
Yeah, that's, thank you for that, by the way. And it's funny, you made that reference to
38:10
to loan toolbox, because in this kind of a theme we've been talking about is, yeah, loan toolbox
38:16
was great. And it really provided education and, you know, kind of raised the
38:21
professionalism, if you will, long before the NMLS came in and forced people to take tests and
38:26
all that. So, you know, and Tim, of course, had this, this viewpoint of like your, you know,
38:30
fiduciary responsibility. And that was all great. But I think, you know, what you had said earlier,
38:35
what's happened is with the incredible boom in refies and the cheap money and, you know,
38:41
everybody got into the business. Then we had the meltdown. And then there was a bit of the
38:45
cleanup, but it's still, you know, easy money. It's kind of back in the market, right? And
38:50
that's fueled refies and things like that. And I think what's happening is there's,
38:55
correct me if I'm wrong, but there's like two camps, right? There's the guys and gals who's
38:58
who weathered the storm, who stuck it out and who understand the fundamentals of the stuff we're
39:02
talking about. And part of the challenge with them is they've gotten so busy because a lot of
39:07
people left the market. So that business kind of flowed up to them. They haven't had time to
39:11
prospect and work on building their business. And they know they need to. And then there's the flip
39:15
side of the more newer people coming in in the last three years or so, where they're just, you know,
39:21
I just hear a lot of words like, you know, they're struggling, right? It's like, I don't get much
39:26
guidance. My manager tells me to go door knock or, you know, whatever the case is, make cold calls.
39:32
And that's just very unproductive and frustrating. And you wind up burning out and wanting to quit.
39:37
It's funny. You said that because the in the beginning, we thought that we would appeal to those
39:44
to the rookies that are in the business or the guys have been business five years or six years
39:48
of things of that nature. What really has happened to us, which is a soft place in my heart for it,
39:54
I call them born again, loan office. I reenergize. They're completely reenergized. I'd probably tell you,
40:02
there's a hundred stories of guys that have been in the business 30 years and have completely
40:06
reenergized themselves because now they've got something to say. They can stand behind it.
40:10
They don't have to be these people. And I'm not sure, at the end of the day, I'm not sure if they
40:15
had it to do all over again, that anybody would change it, right? If you got the low hanging fruit
40:19
in the refinance side, God bless America. Take it. But I think that's the struggle that people have.
40:25
They just need to be able to look at this and say, here's what it is. I mean, first and foremost,
40:29
first and foremost, this is a business, right? So let's not, it's not a hobby. It's a business.
40:35
It's not even a sales job. It's a business. So when you look at this at the end of the day,
40:41
what do you need in your business? Well, you need, you need to build your database, right? So
40:47
what do you want to fill the database with? You need to fill the database with what's working in
40:51
the market. So you need to be able to adapt to that at the end of the day. If you've got a business
40:55
model that's archaic from 10 years ago, that you've got the biggest database on the face of you,
41:01
I still remember talking to a guy at a New York City, who's back in the subprime days. And I said,
41:06
and then we saw subprime just go, go south in a heartbeat, right? And he says, you know, I've got
41:11
1250 people in my database is a subprime guy. And I said, yeah, and how's that going to work out
41:16
for you? Because you got 1250 people that there's no market, right? It's like, it's over. So you
41:22
can't realize, you just don't realize, you know, what you don't have. And I think that's the big
41:26
difference here, you know, with people that are out there. So I love the born again, by the way,
41:31
born again. Oh my gosh, it's just like, and we get testimony elaptured. It's so cool to see the
41:37
guys and the girls that are out there that are thinking it's over, right? It's like, oh,
41:42
the business sucks. It doesn't matter. It's like, you know, and it's like, well, wait a minute.
41:48
It doesn't have to be that way because they bring a huge amount of value. They, the interesting
41:51
thing about it is people know what to do if I can get them in front of a customer.
41:56
Yeah, right. They kill it. I mean, they've got that they've got that part wired struggle becomes
42:01
how do you get them in there? And that's where it's a little bit of a leap of phase.
42:05
It says, go do it this way, make this call, play this video. And the realtor's get it. How do I know
42:10
the realtor's get it? Because I talked to them. It's been structured around that that says,
42:15
how did you know that I got more leads coming through the door than I have sales? And how did you
42:19
know I don't have much bandwidth? And the insurance agent telling us, well, how did you know I only
42:23
made $10 a policy? And I'm not converting as many as I should. And they have, I call it fear of
42:28
flow in the get go, right? Where these guys are scared to death because they're being commoditized,
42:33
right? What value do they bring to their customers? They're looking for value add to bring to their
42:40
customers. And that's the whole thought process, you know, with what's there? So it's it's interesting
42:44
to be able to see. I just think it's a it's a state tune. You got to stay cutting edge. You got
42:49
to stay. I mean, I really, I'm a little more paranoid. Probably than I should be as far as
42:55
making sure that this is what's really happening to the marketplace. In that mastermind call,
43:02
probably had 100 some people on there, whatever was. And it was like 90% of the people I said,
43:08
and that's across the country from Idaho to Orlando, right? And I said, do you guys have an issue
43:13
with inventory? And they said, everybody said, yes, it's like, you know, that's what's there. And
43:20
I'm going to, I'll either write an article or do a video. And I'd be more than happy to your
43:24
readership group or things of that nature, whatever I can do to help them get to the next level.
43:29
I mean, I applaud guys like you that are doing what you're doing. But there is a there is a benefit.
43:35
The advantages, you know, what are the advantages? I'm not sure what the title will be, but,
43:41
you know, the benefits of lack of inventory. And there is some benefit to that. And the benefit of
43:46
that is appreciation. And if you look at, if you look at OPEC and you look at, look at the beers,
43:54
they don't put the whole supply to the market because if they do, the prices go down. Right.
43:59
So they hold off on it. And that's what we're starting to see. We're starting to see natural
44:02
appreciation. That's crazy appreciation like we saw 10 years ago. People are buying how,
44:08
people are buying houses today for the right reason. It's first, it's a shelter. You know,
44:12
and then it's an investment. Right. Back then people were stupid things. I mean, I still remember
44:17
sitting in Las Vegas airport. And a guy was crying the blues. I was just sitting there and my
44:20
flight was delayed. And I said, hey, you're in a home here. And he says, yeah, and he was a young guy.
44:25
And I said, how's your market here? He says, it's in the tank. And I said, well, I said, man,
44:30
when I heard, you know, I'm thinking to myself, I said, what do you mean, tell me about what do you
44:33
do? It's in a tank. He says, yeah, last year we were only up 22%. I said, how do you believe
44:38
that's in a tank? He says, well, the year before that, it was up 40. Oh my gosh. And then now you fly
44:43
over and you see all those subdivisions that we're going to be built. And yeah, you know,
44:47
so that's classic. Hey, real quick before we run out of time. So you've got a path to buy is for
44:53
both loan officers and real estate agents, right? Correct. And insurance agents. So the whole
44:59
concept of path to buy partners is the concept of we call it a power team of three. If I can
45:05
figure out a way for those guys to, if the consumer buys everybody wins, yeah, insurance agent
45:11
wins, the real estate agent wins, the loan officer wins. So we call that a power team. It's a
45:15
triangle that we put together. So the realtors don't pay anything. There's an extra place for
45:21
them to be able to come to if they wanted to. The loan officers are my business source.
45:27
That's my business model. And the insurance agents don't pay anything for it. So ultimately,
45:31
as you start to realize and you start to see it, you know, that's what our business model is set to.
45:37
We do have some markets were closed. We have saturation levels. Again, this is probably my
45:42
heart as a loan officer in an owner of a mortgage company that I don't want to have everybody
45:47
in their brother, you know, have the program, right? And I'm not saying that arrogantly. I'm just
45:51
saying that to the point where I want to make sure that it truly is unique. How many times have we
45:57
seen a product that says, yeah, we've got an exclusive in the next thing. You know, 50 other people
46:01
have got it. I mean, it's just like it doesn't work that way. So, I mean, we've got our own little
46:05
formula that we use. There's plenty of, there's plenty of business out there. The only market that
46:09
I really have closed is, you know, the upstate New York market, you know, that's a, I had a large
46:15
group that is co-owned by a real estate company and a mortgage company that I've known for years
46:20
that, you know, took that market down all by themselves. But again, I'd love for you to be
46:24
investigate my product, you know, as far as what's there. I don't think it's anything that,
46:30
you know, and again, whatever I can do to sell, you know, the whole thought process behind it.
46:36
You know, you get an idea of what, you know, what's there. And you can also go to, you know, there's
46:42
again, if you, let me give you my email address. If you've got a question, please just email me
46:46
and whatever I can do to be able to guide you down that road. Pat, the buy will get you what you
46:49
need. Pass number two, buy.com. Next-gen originator will get you what's there. I mean, our team is,
46:56
is here readily available to be able to answer any questions. And any feedback you guys can give us.
47:00
I mean, that's what we're here for. My email address is just Tom, T-O-M-At-P-A-T-H, the number two,
47:08
buy B-U-Y, you know, .com. So I think it's pretty cool to see where the journey's going.
47:15
The guys that are making it big time, I got a guy that's 34 years old out of a rapid city south
47:24
Dakota, if you could believe this. Hot market. I closed 170 purchase loans last year.
47:34
170 in that market. And it's just he's such a, he's such a, he is so awesome because he was here
47:40
and he was one of our original coaches, right? So this guy has got that market wired and it's a heavy
47:45
bank market up there. You know, with what's there is, you know, some of those markets you get that's
47:50
a mindset of a banks and credit unions and things of that nature. So he's such a good guy. But
47:55
again, if there's something I, you know, that it's not for everybody, I can tell you that Jeff,
48:01
you know, work is still a four-letter word, right? So, yeah, it's not like you just, you know, buy,
48:05
yeah, subscribe to the website. Tim and I talked about that all the time when he had, you know,
48:11
long tow boxes like you still got to put the work in, right? It's, you know, the treadmill just
48:15
because it's in your room doesn't, doesn't mean that you don't just get to watch it go around,
48:20
you actually have to get on it and, you know, an exercise, right? So I think that's a big part of it.
48:25
So, yeah, send me an email. If I can help you, whatever guidance you can do, we got some markets
48:32
that are, you know, that are somewhat, you know, obviously the markets in Chicago land, you know,
48:39
it's where I'm from Colorado, which is where Cherry Creek's from, the Milwaukee market, you know,
48:46
we're a little heavier there, Minnesota, that whole Midwest quarter, you know, it's up there.
48:51
But, you know, just again, and I'd love to chat with you. I mean, I think it's what you're doing
48:55
here as a matter of keeping everybody together, you know, trying to make sure that you position yourself
49:00
with, you know, the experts that are out there and maybe we can, you know, jumpstart the whole
49:06
training component here with people that, you know, needs to look at it. I think that you commented
49:12
on the next gen originator mindset. That's what it is. It just comes down to you, you got to adapt
49:17
to what the times are. And I think now is the time to be able to look at that and just be able to
49:21
see what we do with it. Well, I think, you know, my kind of my tagline is, you know, truth and
49:26
mortgage marketing and, you know, there's tools and resources that can help originators out there.
49:32
And, you know, that's why I wanted to have you on because I've checked it out. And I think it's
49:36
definitely solid and it helps people loan officers position themselves for the market of the moment,
49:41
where they need to become an educator and, you know, automate some of that process with the tools
49:46
kind of the, you know, the road map. You've got, that's why you call it path to buy, right? It's a
49:51
path to take somebody on to get them educated and ready that helps position you as a thought leader
49:58
to make that purchase transaction, whether that's tomorrow or that six months or a year down the road.
50:02
The point is, you probably don't have a lot of relevant good content like you've developed over
50:07
there path to buy. So that's why I'm encouraging everybody to check it out. Yeah. And it's,
50:12
it's frustrating. I get to live by curiously through others now because I don't have a mortgage
50:15
company, right? So somebody else's successor becomes, you know, me high five in them, you know,
50:20
the virtual high five to be able to say, man, it was cool. You knocked out of the park. It's just so
50:24
cool to be able to see, you know, where a lot of these folks are going. And, and the nice thing about
50:28
it is, if you're new to this business, you can get to the front real quick because it's just, it's
50:35
about leverage. You just got to use some leverage activities. And that's definitely one way to do
50:38
that is, you know, get hooked up with you guys. Check it out, dig in, path to buy, P-A-T-H-2.
50:43
The number two, that is B-U-Y.com. And check it out. Lots of great content on there. So,
50:49
hey, I appreciate you making time. I know you're incredibly busy. And so it's been great to catch
50:55
up with you again. And thanks for sharing with the members. And, you know, let's hope we can stay
50:59
in touch. Yeah, perfect. And I'll make, I'll make it a point to do that, Jeff. Whatever I can do to
51:03
help your group, I'm there for you. You bet. No, for those listening, thank you for tuning into
51:08
another session of mortgage marketing radio. If you like what you hear, or some of the other
51:13
podcasts, please make sure to leave your comments, hit the like button, subscribe on iTunes,
51:18
and appreciate you listening. And remember, go out there and find truth and mortgage marketing.
51:22
It's Jeff Zim for your host. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
51:35
Thanks for listening to mortgage marketing radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing.
51:40
Get more free training and resources at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com.
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