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Building Your Wealth Advisory Team to Get More Referrals · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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Hey Jeff Center here host of the mortgage marketing radio podcast. Thanks for tuning in.
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This is the place where you as a mortgage professional gets access to the ideas, tools,
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and resources to help you grow your business with less effort, less struggle, less frustration
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and become the preeminent mortgage professional in your local market. Today's episode we're
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going to talk exactly how you can do that. And most importantly, I want to invite you to a free
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informational webinar that I'm hosting with my special guest today, whom you're going to hear
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from him in a moment. But before we switch into that, I want to talk to you briefly about
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a concept, a concept called the upstream model. And my special guest today, Justin Stoddard,
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wrote the book called the upstream model, which is hidden secrets to build a massive referral
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business while crushing big tech competitors. Look, let's just face it, the markets influx,
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the markets always changing, right? And it's not the strongest to survive. It's the most
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adaptable to change who survive. And I don't often bring, right, platforms and resources and
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ideas or people to you outside of the norm, unless I'm a firm believer in who they are,
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first as a person, right? And then secondly, with what they're doing, does it actually move the
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needle or is it just white noise? Is it signal versus noise? Well, today's conversation with
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Justin is signal. We're going to talk about the upstream model and we're going to talk about how
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most originators unfortunately stay stuck if you if you picture a ladder, right? And on the bottom
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run of that ladder is a solicitor looked upon as someone there to just get something for themselves
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and then move up from solicitor to vendor, right? Where it's a little bit better than solicitor,
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but actually it's just a sales relationship. It's based on products, price and those types of
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things, right? And that's where most originators tend to hang out and lead with as their
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quote competitive advantage. I got great products. I got great service. I close on time, right?
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Whatever that thing is. But unfortunately, staying in the category of a vendor doesn't build a true
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business that thrives, right? It's one that's based on how good but your last loan. Can I get a
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witness? Is any of this send familiar? What have you done for me lately? My passion and purpose for
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being here is to help you move from vendor to peer, right? Where you look at with respect as an
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equal. And then ultimately, as we continue to move upstream, right? You become a peer and a
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partner and ultimately the pinnacle is you become a mentor and a leader where you're recognized and
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looked up to as an expert and advisor or consultant, right? Someone who can help solve your partner's
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biggest challenges. And today, your invitation is to join us to learn more about how my guest,
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Justin Stoddard and myself have teamed up to bring to the mortgage industry a solution to help
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you move upstream. If you picture a stream, right? At the top is this stream of clients that comes
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out and an upstream partner would be somebody like a real estate agent. It would be a tax advisor,
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it would be a CPA, it would be a wealth estate planner, people like that, right?
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neighboring industries, right? Whose current clients are your future clients?
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But when you're stuck in the bucket or on the ring of vendor, right? Picture you standing
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downstream and you're holding your fishing pole out, trying to catch those random fish that
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are originating upstream. Well, what if you could actually reverse that? What if you could actually
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change, pick up your pole, leave downstream and hike yourself up, take a walk upstream to be at the
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same level of what I call your upstream partner, right? You being a true peer and mentor and leader,
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helping those partners upstream partner solve problems and challenges. And what drives those
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upstream partner opportunities? Typically life events, right? Divorce, death, moving, relocation,
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birth, college, right? Downsizing, upsizing, right? You name it. And look at the secret is,
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you guys have heard about this for a while, right? This idea of building your family, wealth,
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advisory team. You've heard of other originators on the podcast, talk about it over the years.
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Well, now you get to learn exactly how to do it in the system. I don't know if this is for you,
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but check out this free call that we're going to be doing coming up. I'm going to give you the date
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time and the link is going to be in the show notes. But Justin and I are doing a free call on
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Thursday, June 22nd at 10 a.m. Pacific time. It'll be about 30 minutes. That's it. And what we're
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going to be doing is walking through this concept of, right? Becoming an upstream partner. But
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more importantly, how you can exclusively in your own area, right? Be the exclusive partner.
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For these other team members of your wealth advisory team. So we're talking about
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real estate agent. Of course, we're talking about financial advisor, tax planner,
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attorneys, CPAs, all the people that are involved in life events and you getting to the top of
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that stream and winning those opportunities by you partnering with these other professionals.
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And most importantly, how do you do it? And you don't do it by showing up and, you know,
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listen, we've all done the B&I. We've done the whole referral network thing. We're not talking
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about that. This is a completely unique and brand new way for you to attract and engage these
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and build your own team of wealth advisors where you're serving each other to all become
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pre-eminent professionals in your local market. So once again, the link is in the show notes.
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But if you want to go to it, it's bit.ly forward slash wealth advisory team. So it's bit.ly forward
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slash wealth advisory team. Link is in the show notes. That's the link that you go to register.
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It'll be a 30 minute zoom conversation. You have to learn more. Get your questions answered
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and see if this is something for you and beat AI in big tech to the punch with these life
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events that are firing these trigger leads that are allowing these big box companies to get to
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that client before you do. Well, look at you can get to that client by buying trigger leads
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and being a coal call or you can get to that client with life events by partnering with other
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people, other professionals and forming your own wealth advisory team and getting a warm
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introduction to people during those life events. So you've got the link. You know what it is.
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It's going to be, as I said, Thursday, June 22nd, 10 am Pacific. Link is in the show notes.
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Once again, it is bit.ly forward slash wealth advisory team. Without further ado, please
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enjoy my conversation with Justin Stoddert. Justin, welcome to the show.
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What's up, Jeff? Good to be here, my friend.
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Good to be here as well. And I'm very excited to talk about this topic. We're talking about here
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today, which I know many of my listeners in the audience are going to respond very favorably to
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because it's what I've been talking about for years, which is building a pace of referrals
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and relationships and leading with value. But before we get into that, who is Justin Stoddert?
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What do you about? What do you do?
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I love a man. Well, first and foremost, I'm a family man. I was reminded of that this past weekend,
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one of his mother's day, and my six kiddos, and I got to treat my wife like the queen. She
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deserves to be treated. We should be doing it all year, but we're reminded this year to do it a
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little more, a little more intentionally. So yeah, family man at heart. And also am the author of
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a book called The Upstream Model, which I know we're going to talk a little bit about today.
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I'm also the host of a podcast called Think Bigger Real Estate, and it's been a passion
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mind for the past five years. And also in the CEO of a company called Pro Insight, which I know
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we're going to be talking about as well. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, we're going to talk about a lot of this.
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And my challenge today, quite honestly, is how do I pack all this in in the limited time that we have?
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Because there's just so many nuggets and lessons in here. So I want to, let's start with this.
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You mentioned your book, The Upstream Model. We'll put a link in the show notes to the book
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for folks who want to get it. I have it right here in my hands. And it's all, if you're watching
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the video, you can see it's here tabbed. If you're not watching these lessons in here are totally
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appropriate for where you're at right now in your business, I'm sure. Okay. So, but it's this
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concept. And you have, by the way, a pretty in-depth personal understanding of the real estate
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business. And by that, I mean, specifically the context of the dynamic of relationship between
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mortgage, realtor, including title, and that whole affiliate kind of like,
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smooth chain, if you will. So, and you feel free to share some comments about that. But you've
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got this book, The Upstream Model, Hidden Secrets to Building a Massive Referral Business,
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while crushing big tech competitors. What's the premise of this whole upstream model idea?
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Yeah, it really stems back to an experience I had in my mid-20s. I was working for a high-end
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home builder. And I realized it was time for me to step out on my own. And I just assumed it
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would be as easy to go get new clients as he had made it appear. Now, maybe the, you know, the
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agents and loan officers that are that are listening to this can relate to that where it's like,
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oh, yeah, I saw what it took to like do loans. I'm like, I got this. I'm figuring out I'm
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to step out on my own. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, crap. There's a whole other business
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here. It's not just servicing the client loan. It's actually, I should have to go get the business.
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I actually have to attract clients into my funnel on a regular basis. And we maybe at times
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discounted the amount of effort that it took to do that. Well, that was me as a high-end home builder.
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I knew that I had a better client experience than my competitors, even a better finished
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product than most all of them as well. But the challenge was how do I convince millionaires
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to impart two million dollars to me to have them have me build them their dream home?
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Right? And I realized like, okay, this is going to be, this is going to be a bit of a challenge
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that I had underestimated. And I was having some success, but I wanted more. And I realized that
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I could market to the general populace of those of that client avatar and have some success.
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But ultimately, a much better approach would be to go upstream. So if you can imagine
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a stream and everybody has their fishing poles in the water at the same spot, it's highly competitive.
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People are competing on, you know, which bait do you have and how fast, like how good of a,
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is your skill at that level? And that's the common industries, the service-based industries in which
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we're talking about right now. Lending, right? It's how fast can do it. What's your rate?
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Right? With real estate agents, how fast can you get here to open up a door? You know, how low will
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you go? And it's a very commoditized kind of very bloody ocean. And what I realized is I didn't want
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to compete like that. Like I knew I could, but it was going to be for tight margins. It was going to
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be on call all the time. It's like, I just don't want to compete like that. And so I figured
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that if I could get upstream and get to the client before anybody else knew that they were a
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potential client, I would have a better chance at winning that client, taking them out of the stream
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before my competition knew that they were there. And so I realized the best way to do that would be
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to identify other professionals whose current clients would be my future clients.
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So as a home builder, that was an architectural designer. All of their current clients had the
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potential to be my future clients. And so rather than marketing to the masses, playing the commodity
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game that I could add big value to that one entity, that one professional, their business,
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and they could start to introduce me to their clients before their clients start actually
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shopping for other builders. So that worked very well for me as a home builder. And then I began to
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teach it to real estate agents, and then I began to teach it to lenders. And I realized that the
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principles held true amongst all service-based businesses, is that you can compete on price and
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timing and over time on relationship and quality, but in over time, it takes time to establish
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that relationship or you can just get upstream and go create valuable partnerships
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with other professionals again whose current clients are your future clients. Add big value to
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that one person, and they'll open up the door to lots of ideal avatar clients.
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Okay, that's good. Some questions, of course, come out of that. How do I get there? How do I get
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upstream? How do I get engagement with those people? Yeah, great questions. There has to be
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a fundamental shift, I think, to start with, is that rather than thinking as a B to C entity,
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which is I'm going to market to the consumers. And we've been trained to think about that more and
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more, I think, with the advent of the internet. It's like, I can get consumers dropped into my
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inbox all day long, and then we're chasing them. And or even with our sphere, even if you're
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more referral-based, it's like we have this big database of 300 people, and I'm not saying that's
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bad, right? That's the foundation of any good businesses to have a good database people who
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you're loving on, but you realize that that big database can only produce a small number,
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call it 10% in referrals or deals each year. So it's like, well, if I want more, I guess I have
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to do, I have to add 10 times the amount of people that I'm loving on to get the amount that
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I actually want. And so you realize that that's there's a challenge in that, and oftentimes in
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that challenge, people adopt this mentality of it's just a numbers game. It's just a number game.
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I'm just going to go through the numbers, but the problem is when we're sorting through the numbers,
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we're actually giving up margin, and we're giving up lifestyle. Is it either we're doing it,
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or we're hiring someone else to do it to sort through the numbers, and that process is where we
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actually lose the main reason why we get into this business, which is to produce a higher dollar per
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hour, be able to take more home and work on our own terms. All of a sudden, because of the model
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that we've subscribed to, we're losing that opportunity. And so the shift is to go away from being
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a B2C marketer and become a B2B marketer. In other words, instead of going to the consumer,
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go to a business owner who already has all the clients. They've already done the decade worth
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of effort and work to get a client to trust them. And if you choose the right partner,
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there'll be somebody who is the right avatar for you, like you guys share a common client,
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you share a common customer. And if you choose that partner right, and you lead with real
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contribution, right, that's something that's almost cliched these days, a lead of contribution,
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but like, which often means that people is like, here's a stack of my cards, here's brochures,
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I'm never too busy for your referrals. That's not leading with contribution. You know it,
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and they know it, right? I'm not saying it's bad, but it's just not effective. It's not effective
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in a B2B setting. It might be with your clients and friends and family, but that model was not
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designed to be in a B2B setting. So if you're going to go B2B, you've got to choose a new model that's
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actually a B2B model, which the upstream model is that. It's designed to say rather than stepping
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in as a lender, right, to a partner's, to a potential upstream partner's business,
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you're stepping in as almost a business consultant. You're there to solve problems that they have.
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And by the way, getting referrals from them is not a problem that they have. Your job is to really
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identify what is a bottleneck in their business. And you find out the bottleneck by first asking,
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where is it that you're headed? Like tell me what you're excited about. Tell me what are you
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building right now? Like what's a big goal? Great. Tell me what's your plan to get there, right?
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Like how are you new to it? And the last thing is like tell me a bottleneck that would keep you
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from doing that. Well, you identify that and value to that. Now the sudden you're seeing different,
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right? You receive differently. And that's what a B2B model looks like is you step into actually add
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value to their business before you start asking for their business. Yeah. So we're going to come back
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to this concept of how do we actually, well, we're going to talk about the family office concept
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during this conversation, of course. But speaking of how do you become a good partner with somebody,
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I love this in the book. Let's walk through these concepts of briefly, if you don't mind,
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stop being a solicitor and a vendor. And you have this kind of progression, you know,
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from the bottom of the pyramid, if you will, to the top, right? From solicitor vendor peer mentor
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and leader, can you briefly walk us through the differences at each of those stages? Yeah.
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I think we all know what it feels like to be a solicitor, right? And it probably we even know
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even more certainly what it feels like to be solicited that we realize that somebody's there to
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get something from us, even if it's just our time. And we don't really see an equal value exchange.
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And so our attempt is how do I without without being rude? How do I dismiss this person so I can
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get back to what's important to me? That's that's that's how solicitors are treated. And oftentimes,
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we don't we again, we go back to this concept. Well, it's just the numbers 98 people are going to
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say, no, I'm going to the next. And it's like, yeah, but the wake of of bad reputation and and
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and inconvenience you provided for 98 people may not be the reputation you want to have. Maybe there's
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a better way and the fact that you spit 98 conversations that were productive like I get it works.
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There's no doubt the numbers work. But is there a better way, right? We have to ask ourselves,
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is there a better way to not have to like blow through 98 people to find the two? And so
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the first concept is is that is we have to like come to grips with the fact that maybe there's
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a better way to go about this. Now, you have to ask your question again, because I got on a
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on a tangent. Absolutely. No, I get it. It's no problem because there's so like I said,
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there's so much in here. So these are the foundationable principles of becoming a good partner.
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Like, you know, the question is how referable are you or you talked about solving problems. So
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you've got this this graph in your books, solicitor vendor peer mentor leader. And I think maybe
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I'll help solidify it this way with the question. How would for those listening, how would you
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consider yourself a solicitor, a vendor here? Right? You want to unpack that a little bit?
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Yeah, yeah. So, so I talked about kind of that bottom spectrum, right? Which is solicitor.
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The next one up is to be a vendor. Typically, a vendor isn't seen with a like you don't see
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signs on people's house that say like no vendors allowed. They see no solicitation. So we know
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that like a vendor is a step up from a solicitor, but a vendor is simply somebody who is known to do
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a certain job. And if we're going to really move to this B2B model and really unpack the value
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of having somebody else open doors all day long to our ideal avatar, ideal client, we can't just
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be a vendor because a vendor can be replaced. It's just somebody who's known for doing the job
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that they're supposed to do inside their silo. And I think that nothing erupted with the key point
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that you mentioned here is not seen as an equal. Yeah, yeah, you still look down upon, right?
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Not in a in a moral way or like a not an ethical way, but it's just like a place I get this this
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widget alone, whatever, right? Yeah, I keep her beyond that, but there's another level.
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Yeah, the next level up from that is peer, right? Where they see you as an equal. Now, I want all
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the lenders listening to this. Sometimes you'll feel when you approach a real estate agent, right?
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That you're a vendor, right? They're not being mean to you. They're not treating you like a solicitor.
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They're trying to dismiss you, but they just see you as one of many, right? When you can step up to
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the level of being a peer, they no longer see you as just a vendor. They see you as a fellow business
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owner who they can learn from that you're an equal, that you realize that there's value to be
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exchanged both ways, not that just you're good at what you do. And so therefore you should give them
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something, right? Kind of this like beggar like, oh, great. Hey, I'm, you know, I'm the best of my
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class. They see you as an equal. And when that happens, something, something shifts in their brain
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to where they realize that, hey, I think I need you as much as you need me. So they treat you
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differently. They give you more time. They give you more space. They give you, they open up more
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to what is really plaguing them. As I was describing before, the process of really identifying a
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bottleneck in people's world, which is the key, by the way, to starting to, to take the next step.
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But they aren't going to do that if they don't see you as an equal. They're going to talk about
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what you do for a living period. What you want to do is elevate the conversation to the next level,
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which is what's really happening in their world. Mentoring leader. Right. That's the final step,
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right? At this one, they realize that they need you more than you need them. And this is not an
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ego thing. So please don't take it that way. It's just the fact that like, they start to realize that,
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okay, I'm right here and I want to be up here in my business. And I feel like I can get there
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faster with you involved, right? And they feel this, this sense of wanting to, to reciprocate and
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add value to you so that the value that you bring to the marketplace can, can infiltrate their
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business. And it's this phrase sometimes helps people to understand this, which is, is if you want
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somebody's business, become a part of their business, right? When you realize, when they realize,
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and you help them to realize that they can get to another level faster, all of a sudden,
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they're thinking of ways that they can, they can reciprocate, including giving you their business,
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right? They're going to start sending you business so that you can continue to contribute to them
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in ways that get them to where they want to go faster. I love that. Thank you for walking us through
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that. I think one of the areas that people get stuck sometimes is solving that equation. Or,
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you know, they're, they're so caught up in the framework of I am a loan officer realtor whatever
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fill in the blank, right? That they don't think outside of that frame of like solving problems.
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And you have this question. I love I highlighted this. It's what problem can I solve for this
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agent, right? Or loan officer that they have not already solved? Yeah. I wrote like that's a,
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that's a stopper right there like pause for a minute. Because the issue I'm addressing for most
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of the loan officers, I know that I interface with over the across the country is we're always
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coming in hot and heavy with our bag of loan related, right? Solutions. Yeah. And you make a great
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point is that when you do that, right? You're just adding to the problem they already have, which is
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too much noise vendor not solving any, I don't have a problem of getting loans done.
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Yeah. I thought that was beautiful, man. Thanks. I love hearing you say, I think you say it better
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than I do. And that's, that's all of a sudden it gets easy for people to want to be in business
23:26
with you when you start to solve their problems, right? I mean, I think about it like this because I
23:30
go kind of like, you know, I get very specific with these things because my audience is always in
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my head and I'm thinking, how about you, if you're a loan officer listening to this and you're
23:38
approaching a realtor and you had that coffee or meeting or whatever and you're like, hey,
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first of all, I just want to make it clear just in that before we get into like knowing each other
23:44
whatever, I'm not here to try and right tell you I'm going to solve all your problems related
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to mortgages because you already have a loan officer, right? That you work with. Yeah, I do. Great.
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I'm not trying. You know what I mean? You go down that hole. I'm not here to try and solve a problem
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that doesn't need solving. Yeah. So what do we do then? How do we, right? Move from vendor to peer.
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What are the questions, conversations? How do we uncover that? Yeah. Well, I think it's to give
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them the assurance just like you described. Like, I'm not here to solve problems that they don't
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need if it ain't broke. Yeah. Like that would that would not be good for you nor would it be a
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good use of my time. I do want you to know however though that I am confident that the value of
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the value you're getting from whoever your existing providers are. I'm confident that we can at
24:34
least match if not beat that. But I'm not here to talk about me today. I'm really not. But I do
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want you to get like to give you the insurance. It's the assurance that this is a good use of time
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because the level of experience you're used to like I'm confident we can do that. But what I am here
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to talk about today is you and your business and where you're headed with it. Now keep in mind
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the people like to talk about themselves. I have to talk about the future of where they're headed.
25:00
If they're not they might not be a good candidate for you right because they haven't really
25:03
really have a vision where they're going to kind of floundering right. So actually and part of
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this whole process is you're not going in just saying if anybody has a pulse or a deal to give
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I'm going to give it. You need to take on the posture the fact that I'm actually interviewing
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that I have limited resources to give and I'm going to give them to those that are the best
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investment like the that provide the best ROI. So part of this isn't just it's not posturing
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even though I said posture it's not posturing you're not you're not there to just get business
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for anybody. You're really evaluating and interviewing them to see do they have a goal? Do they
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have a plan? Do they have challenges that I can solve because if if none of those add up if
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they don't have a vision of a goal then that can have any more business to give. If they don't
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actually have a plan well maybe you could help them with that but you at least want to know that
25:53
thought a little bit about that or otherwise the goal is a little delusional and then lastly you
25:58
want to know what problems they have because if you can't solve problems this is going to be
26:02
shortly of anyway like if the problems that they have are completely things that you don't want to
26:07
solve then let's not waste our time right. So part of this is you're really interviewing to see
26:11
if this is the right candidate you know into whom and not from again not from an ego standpoint
26:16
but just to save everybody the time and the hassle standpoint but that that is the conversation
26:21
you have those three points are critical for you stepping out of the role of being a lender for
26:26
just a minute leave your lender hat in the car and you're a business consultant now your job is
26:31
to find out where are they headed. Number two what's the plan to get there and number three what
26:39
bottlenecks do you foresee could keep you from getting there. Now again not everybody's going to have
26:46
roll off the tip of their tongue but if they say you know I need some clarity on where I'm headed
26:53
that doesn't mean that it's it's like this person's a loser they're not going anywhere that I have a
26:57
goal but you should at least make mental note of like can I help them develop that like are you
27:02
open to gaining some clarity around what you actually want to build there's very talented people
27:06
out there that are now ready to build something else so again it should not be a showstopper
27:11
or like game over if they don't have it but you should make mental note if they don't have a goal
27:15
that's something I can help them with right we're going to talk about that okay the the second
27:20
question again is tell me your plan if you had this like list out what's the fastest and best
27:25
most assured way for you to get to where you want to go what does that look like so if you're a lender
27:30
if you're in a real estate agent is it is your business primarily by referral do you have other
27:35
lead sources like you say you want to get to a hundred deals a year how many do you have right now
27:40
and and what's the gap and what's your plan to close that gap what does it look like like
27:44
be a business consultant right your job is to really identify where you can fit into that picture
27:51
and again that's the whole premise here as I'm trying to find out how I can become a part of
27:54
their business so that given me their business becomes such a natural extension of them wanting
28:01
to contribute back yeah I think might take away from this is if we're talking about mortgage
28:07
originators listening to this and in in in in converse conversations with agents or other
28:11
referral partners is they need to get better at discovery right asking those questions
28:17
and and just as you said a moment ago kind of just putting putting your sales bag down like
28:21
you know stop with the pitch man that's so refreshing when people they're waiting for the pitch
28:27
and when it doesn't come that's one way by the way to start moving upstream from vendor because
28:32
you're not pitching to peer like you can see that the shift and the dynamic in the conversation
28:39
people's shoulders relax they breathe a little bit easier they're like oh you know they're not
28:43
gonna tell me all about their great products and services and how they close on they're actually
28:47
actually asking me questions yeah that's pretty engaging and you're right it does something to
28:54
the the whole goal of of this this meeting should be twofold number one is to cause them to see you
29:00
as as a minimum up here if not a mentor leader right that's one is to trigger somebody that's like
29:07
this person's different I knew when I was working as an executive for a title company
29:13
then I was I was calling to have conversations with with with higher agents I knew I was doing
29:19
something right when they said to me you know what I've never had a conversation like this
29:25
with someone in title and escrow yeah right like that was really like okay I'm I'm doing it right
29:31
right but when they're like well what makes you different than our existing company it's like
29:36
I screwed up here because they can't see it they can't feel it right I'm just another
29:41
guy in here trying to pedal title and escrow right and they already have a title and escrow person
29:45
this is always the time so you know you don't write if they're like wait a minute this boy this
29:49
is a different conversation I'm used to that's what you want to have to have to have trigger either
29:52
mine and I read that in your book and I can't tell you how much that hit me because you may not be
29:57
aware of it but but I spent a fair amount of time over the last two years working with a title
30:01
company here in my backyard and one of the things some of the title reps kept
30:06
peppering me for because I was the marketing technology director um they wanted the app of the
30:11
week like what's the latest app what's the cool thing what's the bright because they always felt
30:16
they had to walk in there with something new and different and the challenge for me was to get
30:22
them to stop with that and just say wait them it's not about this app this thing it's what did they
30:29
really need yeah and and shifting it was so hard for some people to just step out of the lane they
30:36
been in for so long because they think that's their value if I'm the person bringing them the thing
30:43
I'm winning but I love how you said you again I'll just say it in the book is it says right here
30:47
does that look like loading another app on their phone that is similar to other apps from other
30:51
companies right um that's not solving the problem that's not that's adding to I don't need another
30:57
app I don't need another bright shiny object what we really need is solutions to our problems
31:02
which is the premise of what we're going to now probably shift into and talking about this
31:06
conversation is moving up that ladder from vendor to peer to mentor and leader that's how you do
31:13
that I love the fact that you said business owner and that is a mind shift mind set shift also is
31:21
going from salesperson loan officer whatever to business owner when you have that mindset of
31:27
a business owner I know you know this the questions you ask yourself become different don't they
31:33
yeah totally yeah you're evaluating every conversation you're in differently right this isn't just uh
31:40
I mean go back to that mentality that you described right of maybe a common title person
31:45
which is I need a bright and shiny object well the next person that comes in behind you's
31:49
going to have a brighter and shinier object so you've just completely commoditized yourself right
31:55
you are at six minute abs five minute abs for you know that old joke
32:01
yeah and that's that's just not a place you want to compete in right because it's just
32:05
what have you done for me this week what I've been bringing this week yeah and and that's how
32:10
again you'll attract new agents all day long or even agents who are not ever really going to
32:16
produce at a high level because they're so focused on a shiny object you and I both know that the
32:20
key to this business is not a bright and shiny object it's finding a model and buying into it and
32:25
being super consistent at doing it over a long period of time like those the agents that are
32:29
going to win and so if you're if your methodology is attractive to people that love bright shiny
32:33
objects you're always going to be spending your wheels because those people are going to be
32:35
spinning out of the business right that's why 80% of the agents are out in two years is because
32:43
they can't focus they can't choose a model and stick with it and focus and and build something those
32:47
that do although sometimes far inferior when it comes to talent and looks and like whatever metric
32:55
you could put on it they're just better because they they they double down and they focus and they
33:01
get good at that one thing so whereas the mentality of a business owner right is again how do we
33:07
create systems and processes and people who can consistently put in create a consistent input so
33:14
that we can get a consistent output and then and you measure that you tweak it and you improve
33:18
upon it and the way that you approach these business owners because that's what they are if you
33:25
approach them as a as a up street peddler of shiny objects you're not going to track the
33:31
business owners you got to come in with a business owner approach in order to attract business
33:35
owners in order for it to be the attractive to business owners yeah and I guess the last
33:41
point on that regarding business owners and this is another issue for lawn officers listening
33:46
up right now is that too many times I've heard lawn officers believe that these quote unquote
33:51
producing agents don't you know they're struggling with what problems do they have like they're
33:57
a producing agent they're already quote successful right and a business owner always has problems
34:08
to solve no matter of what is the problem right well and that's when we're thinking about
34:15
it came from a lawn officers perspective is sure you can come in with your new loan products
34:20
and your new stuff but if you stop talking and start asking good questions right that I believe
34:25
should be in at least kind of those three major categories of where you headed what's your plan
34:31
and what bottlenecks to you foresee if you can if you can come out because again I don't know if I
34:35
finish my thought is that there's there's two major reasons for this meeting number one is to be
34:40
triggered to be able to see to have them see you as more than a vendor you know for them to see
34:46
you as a peer at minimum the last thing is to actually gather intelligence that allows you to serve
34:54
them right like actually to to know what their problem is because again if you are simply prescribing
35:00
without diagnosing right you're a total like if you were a doctor you'd be you lose your
35:05
license over that right and maybe loan officer should lose their license as well if they come in
35:10
and prescribe without diagnosing like be the doctor that doesn't come out into the waiting room
35:15
and start just passing out medication everybody hey you'd be done so quick right whereas and that's
35:21
what that's what we do is we come out we say I got I got the best loan product loan product loan
35:24
product loan product does it post a saying tell me where where you at like where you headed
35:30
what's your plan and and what bottlenecks do you see you know what now that you say that I think I
35:35
have some things that might be beneficial to you now at least your your prescription has some
35:40
context for them and they realize how this helps them yeah people have to take you seriously and
35:45
on that note one thing that I found that you maybe you found this in the in the in the book that I
35:49
shared is that some of the people feel intimidated to ask those questions because they don't feel like
35:53
they're qualified to be able to answer them all right like well I don't really want to ask like
35:58
like I don't like who might be a business consultant I'm just a loan officer and it's it's you don't
36:04
have to know all the things yourself and you don't definitely don't have to know them on the spot
36:08
but you just get curious ask good questions and and and maybe ask at minimum are you are you open
36:14
if I if I if I have somebody that I could introduce you to or an idea that might help this is it
36:21
okay if I circle back and you've apparently need to ask permission for that people if they've told
36:25
you their problem they're they're kind of saying like I'm open to having some help me to fix them
36:30
right and and so I always tell people that there's there's four buckets from which you can pull from
36:36
that ought to give you the confidence to ask that question to anybody and everybody like I would
36:40
feel comfortable sitting in front of Richard Branson or any tycoon Elon Musk like let's say that
36:48
right kind of the business tycoon of our era like Elon Musk and I sit down with him and I
36:52
I would ask him these questions like tell me what's your vision for Twitter right what what what
36:57
does that look like um what's your plan to do that okay business plan what bottlenecks to you
37:04
foresee okay now Elon's going to be saying some things that I'm going to have no idea how to solve
37:08
I've never run a technology company like Twitter I don't know right but here's what I do know
37:12
is that there's four buckets from which I can pull from number one is who do I know that might be
37:17
able to help Elon solve that problem who I currently know right now number two is what do I know
37:23
that might help Elon solve that problem okay that's that's the second bucket those ones are
37:28
are finite right because it's who I currently know and what I currently know the other two are
37:32
infinite which is the third bucket is who could I know that might be able to help Elon solve that
37:38
problem right and the fourth bucket is what could I learn what could I know that might help Elon
37:45
solve that problem right so now it's it's those buckets using even the power of the internet right
37:51
or conversations with other bright people we can solve any problem in the world right or at least
37:56
direct people at least offer some sort of guidance and help that's beneficial and that's how you move
38:02
from being even just appear to being a mentor and leader they recognize that you just identified
38:07
their biggest problem and now you're bringing back connections and ideas that help solve that even
38:14
if they don't aren't the perfect fit just the fact that you played at that level you're going to be
38:20
seen differently and they're going to want to take another meeting and they're going to want to be
38:23
in business with you because they realize again that where they're at and where they want to be at
38:28
there's a path there and you just paved a highway they realize I got to have this Jeff guy in my
38:33
world because I know I'm going to get there faster if he's in it right yeah and that has a that has
38:38
value above and beyond what you already deliver as a professional for your service offering which is
38:43
expected that you deliver anyways all right that's that's an awesome conversation so and that's
38:47
probably a good pivot for us to talk about the other reason why I wanted to bring you on the podcast
38:52
and bring this to the attention of my listeners is I was introduced to you through an acquaintance
38:59
that I've known mutual acquaintance business the business acquaintance for for over two years now
39:03
Don Jochem and it's this this concept of the family office and and I want to unpack if you could
39:09
the family office and what you guys are doing specific to the mortgage and real estate world with
39:15
the family office could you do that yeah you bet so I've had my own coaching company for a number of
39:19
years now and and I'll be honest I was even at times getting frustrated with it because I would
39:26
teach these principles to a loan officer teach these principles to a to a real estate agent and
39:32
it's almost like if I were to take a basketball team and I take one person on that team
39:39
and I train them up how to be really good right but nobody else goes to practice nobody else learns
39:43
anything and I put them on the court I feel I can't figure out why they aren't winning it's because
39:48
I was training one person right and when I met Don Don opened up a vision to me of what what he
39:55
was building and asked and invited me to be a part of it and it's this is that if you can train
40:00
everybody in that circle all the key players that surround a real estate transaction how to think
40:06
and operate this way the referrals will flow like the salmon of Capastrano I just coated them
40:14
my wife coated that over the weekend I just smiled at them like I love you um anyway so the
40:19
the the point behind it is is if you just teach one person what it becomes their job it becomes
40:25
a loan officer job to go teach the real estate agent how to think this way and the financial advisor
40:29
how to think this way and the CPA how to think this way and so they're you're met with some
40:35
resistance because what they're used to seeing from a loan officer is common let's be honest
40:40
what's common is common right and so they don't treat you differently right away over time can you
40:46
can you help help shift them and give them some ahas no doubt undoubtedly and that's what we were
40:51
seeing that's what I'm seeing with my coaching clients is that you have these conversations
40:56
enough but there's also a burden on them to go teach these other players how to think this way
41:02
and so what we have identified is that they're there are life events in which there are certain
41:09
professionals who are almost always needed during those life events those life events could be
41:14
birth death marriage divorce uh you know retirement relocation uh business sale whatever right
41:24
these these life events happen and the household the client themselves would best be would be best
41:31
served if they had a collaboration from multiple of those professionals right let's take an asset
41:38
sale business sale for example commercial real estate agent you bet a lender yeah you bet right
41:43
an attorney a CPA um potentially their private bank like there's there's people around there
41:50
that if they were to not only know that that life event were happening but be able to work
41:55
collaboratively collaboratively with all the people who could also help during that time
42:02
insurance is another one that things would go so much smoother for the household so at the very
42:07
outset what we're doing is we are democratizing an idea that was once reserved only for the uber
42:13
wealthy i'll give an example if you're a billionaire right let's say you're Elon Musk since we're
42:19
using his name right that whether you love Elon or hate Elon that's not the point of this okay the
42:23
point is he has a lot of money right wealthy spend in the world he has what's called a family office
42:29
where he has his own financial advisory team his own real estate team his own insurance team his own
42:35
property management team his own like he has his own team well because he can because there's
42:39
enough wealth there to deal with it and that's why the wealthy continue to get more and more wealthy
42:44
because they have a team around them that that works collaboratively together and so what we're
42:51
doing is we're taking that concept of a family office and we're democratizing it bringing it down
42:56
for the common consumer for the average person we're allowing them to have access to a family office
43:03
so we are reconstructing that in the form of identifying professionals in each county of the
43:08
country exclusive in their area their territory to build out a family office so for example in
43:17
each family office there will be a residential real estate agent there may be a commercial real estate
43:21
agent it's up to the family office to decide what they want there'll be somebody who's expert
43:24
insurance a financial advisor a CPA potentially a business banker right potentially like there will
43:31
be that core group of attorneys see tax professionals real estate professionals who come together
43:40
to do two things number one to work together to find the ideal clients that they can serve collaboratively
43:47
now when I say collaboratively I don't mean like you're not going to bring all seven professionals to
43:51
the table at once necessarily you may right but there will be certain times where you'll bring two or
43:57
three people together to serve a client household during a life event so the first thing that a family
44:04
office does is it well the first thing is as is it provides a superior experience for the household
44:08
that they've never experienced before because it's not just one person's value proposition of I'm a
44:14
lender and I do this different a better it's a combined value propositions of everybody it's a
44:19
combined value propositions of this family office so you are far and away unique and different
44:24
because you have access to bring people together who work collaboratively together like an all-star
44:29
basketball team who who has worked together for a long time right so that's the concept now
44:37
how is this good for the for the professional getting back to my thought what my comment is that
44:41
the first thing that they do is they they share a common avatar and because they share a common
44:47
avatar it gets really easy for them to bring that person to the table and refer it to the other
44:51
parties right so you're you're getting help finding the ideal clients to serve that's the
44:57
first thing the second thing is that you are serving them collaboratively right you're you're
45:03
actually working together to to serve that household so when you do that you the family office
45:09
becomes a really unique situation to be a part of because you're not having to just work by
45:16
referral through your own database nor are you having to supplement that those referrals with
45:23
with prospecting nor with internet leads you can get enough from the family office enough
45:31
warm referrals that it will sustain a very robust business and you can cut out the time that you
45:37
would normally spend finding clients and you can reallocate that to serving clients and earning
45:44
a higher dollar per hour because everybody again shares a common client so that's the concept
45:49
of the family office that again we're bringing to not just to the households but we're also bringing
45:54
that concept to professionals helping them to to scale a referral business in it in an entirely
45:59
new way yeah I love it I'm involved and on board because I think as I told you in a previous
46:06
conversation this is what I've been teaching for years is you know you kind of build your I was
46:11
calling this you know to borrow a phrase from my buddy Wally Ellibary this is kind of like the
46:14
wealth team that you know you would build this this this referral network now I there are some
46:21
key differences here though because sometimes and I know you've you've addressed these questions
46:24
in the past when they think about okay so you're telling me I'm gonna assemble like a financial
46:28
advisor right maybe a CPA a lender a realtor etc plus you're gonna have other affiliates in there
46:36
um what's the difference of doing this versus other versions of this that have been done in
46:41
the past yeah I would say the common thing that people say is is this like a litip or a B&I
46:47
and I and I invite them to to this and that there's no um those you that have been a part of one
46:53
of those productive groups know that they can be very good um I would say though that that a
46:58
distinct difference is that the people who are invited into the family office are those who serve
47:04
during unique life events they're asset-based professionals and those who can who can
47:11
queue us up that a life event is coming right um it's not gonna be for
47:15
chiropractors necessarily it's not gonna be for a florist right just because there's an opening
47:20
in your chapter and there's nobody else there does not mean that they're the right fit for
47:24
for for for your group and you needing a back adjustment isn't necessarily a life of that
47:30
I feel like at the moment but yeah I don't know that your plans would argue or or or would
47:36
attest that that would fit inside of a family office setting the other big thing thing that we do
47:41
is that oftentimes in those settings all the value is exchanged behind closed doors so it's still
47:48
really invites a siloed type of atmosphere so for example if I go to one of those meetings 90
47:53
minutes on a Friday morning let's say and I've been a part of them before and it was it was a
47:57
decent experience right I did recognize that there was an added burden that it wasn't just
48:01
shown up for 90 minutes but I had to actually needed to actually do it to be a good standing member
48:05
to do multiple one-on-ones a week right that oftentimes took an hour at least to where I'm
48:09
getting no other people right and and I get that and that's what makes those those work
48:13
but when you're meeting with somebody who you know is not gonna be a valuable resource for you
48:17
and vice versa it's it's it's it's it's not always that fun of time you kind of do it out of
48:21
obligation but back to my point of you you get behind closed doors to teach each other how to
48:27
refer you and then everybody goes back to their own silos right I step back into my world let's say
48:32
as a real estate agent and I'm hoping that the or the financial or I'm hoping that I said something
48:38
good enough that the financial advisor will think of me and remember me and bring me up to his
48:43
clients or clients right I'm hoping that I said something remarkable enough when I did my
48:48
presentation that the CPA says you know what I'm gonna bring you up to my clients and we see it
48:53
differently rather than getting behind closed doors to train each other we actually serve the
48:59
client collaboratively so we bring the client to the center of where values be in exchange to the
49:04
events that we do are centered around serving a client would collaboratively come together to
49:09
serve those clients towards that there's not this you know a couple hours a week invested to do
49:14
this you're simply spending a couple hours a week to actually serve a client and actually make
49:18
money on a client right and you're only bringing in people who are who are uniquely identified as serving
49:24
your your avatar in common as opposed to anybody who who wants to get in because there's opening
49:30
you know an opening what what are example of these types of events that come together to serve the
49:35
client yeah so a couple of them one is called an expert panel so when you have this these kinds of
49:41
professionals around you right you could easily say real estate agent lender and financial advisor
49:49
or let's say real estate agent 1031 exchange and a tax professional let's come together
50:00
each one of us are going to invite our client base to a private zoom meeting where we're going to
50:06
be giving a panel discussion on how to exchange out of properties in the coming year based on
50:14
the new tax law that was just passed right and so rather than again just hoping that I've trained
50:21
you well enough to where you go talk about it I'm going to be talking about it in front of your
50:24
clients because you invited them to this expert panel event so it's actually a combined event
50:30
there's also we're also going to be bringing in ideal avatars that meet that we've got
50:38
partnerships with big data companies that will allow us to identify other people in the community
50:42
that would be invited to that expert panel event so it's not just the the respective databases
50:47
of those involved but other community members that would have interest in this particular thing
50:51
another one is is actually a family office consultation where we because we have a unique
50:57
avatar we know who would be a good fit to actually bring them into a zoom meeting
51:03
and have the insurance agent have the lender have the real estate agent and the tax professional
51:09
there to consult together so that that group works cohesively together to serve that household's
51:17
needs again we're not behind closed doors hoping that we then when we return to our silos we remember
51:22
each other we're breaking down the silos and we're working together on the same household
51:28
yeah I mean that makes sense for those that are looking to not have to chase but to build a team
51:34
of like-minded professionals that that are all serving the same need which is a person right who
51:41
has quote unquote a life event you mentioned those earlier in our conversation birth diploma married
51:45
promoted transferred divorce right those are examples and I love the fact that you did highlight
51:51
as compared to other kind of quote unquote networking and I wouldn't even describe this as
51:54
networking this is a whole different thing meaning remember the family the family office concept
51:59
which is exclusively designed for before high net worth individuals I look at this is this you know
52:07
grouping of people is designed for people of the right of the same and similar mindset in that
52:11
they want to serve at a higher level and they all have or wreck or or I was gonna say all have
52:17
the same problem that might be articulated differently but the point is they recognize the value
52:24
of building partnerships so they too also don't have to continue to chase business you know and all
52:31
with that does that make sense yeah 100 percent well said yeah the chase goes away and people
52:36
like well how am I gonna have time to do all this what's because you you kind of back to my comment
52:42
if you can identify those professionals whose current clients are your future clients
52:48
like the hunt goes away the search goes away you simply serve each other's clients
52:53
right and you're introduced to call it a dozen other databases of people who are your ideal avatar
53:00
and by the way it's not like you're just shown up in their news feed there is a warm introduction
53:05
from their advisor who they've trusted for the past 10 years that's a way different experience
53:09
than being introduced via Zillow right or being introduced via you know some other online
53:15
lead campaign or or you introducing yourself by calling their phone right like their advisor is
53:21
introducing you yeah so how you gonna have time to do this well because you're gonna cut out all the
53:27
chase all the all the unnecessary fat that it actually isn't serving clients you'll be simply
53:31
introduced to your ideal clients yeah which is like the example you gave yeah I didn't want to
53:38
meet with the Mary K person per se right just to check my box yeah you've got to use your time
53:43
very wisely so to sum this all up and and we do have if anybody's listening and wants to learn more
53:48
about this and like I said I'm definitely involved and I'm looking for other like-minded professionals
53:53
if you're hearing this right now across the country and you're interested to learn more about this
53:56
and you've got some questions there's additional information that you definitely need to know but you
54:01
can go to growmyfamilyoffice.com and I'm gonna be scheduling probably a informational you know
54:08
meeting webinar zoom to just walk through the next stages of learning more to see if this is the
54:13
right fit for both of us because this isn't for everybody we're not looking for everybody nor should
54:18
you be so once again it's growmyfamilyoffice.com to summarize this is what we're doing is connecting
54:25
professionals through the creation of a local family office community right you're gonna have your
54:30
own areas gonna be exclusive to you so you can identify and partner these service-based professionals
54:38
as you've heard mentioned to collaborate and find the you know mutual clients during those
54:43
important life events did I summarize that well I was super well said yeah super well said all
54:49
right anything else you want to tell us about this before we wrap up because you know we're almost out
54:52
of time yeah I think the only thing I would add in is just there's opportunities to help us build
54:57
this right there's as Jeff described there's ways for you to to come in as a family office leader
55:02
right where you're actually building out your own family office and again as soon as you hear
55:06
this don't don't wait on this because it is exclusive by territory so I don't I'm not this is
55:12
like false scarcity this is real scarcity but there really is there really are limitations so if
55:18
this resonates with you speak up get kind of a Jeff right away yeah if you're sending yourself like
55:22
I would love to train on this I would love to be actually a trainer on this we have very lucrative
55:28
very lucrative positions inside a pro insight they will allow you to train on this part time to
55:32
begin with potentially full time more that they're extremely lucrative and then also for those that say
55:36
I could I could get behind this and and tell people about this all day long there's a role called
55:41
a pro insight builder which is designed to to have you helping us get the word out on this again
55:47
very lucrative multiple six-figure income opportunities in both of these to help us get the word out
55:51
and spread this quickly across the country because it's needed now more than ever let's be honest
55:54
like technologies moving faster than ever and if and if you want to not become out of ties by it
56:00
or the common professional now's the time to move yeah and the cool thing about this is by the way
56:04
that we're not saying this is a replacement for you being a mortgage professional right this is
56:08
in addition to and giving you access to these additional sources of business so that very clear
56:15
and let's close out on this because I love this from the book because part of your book is
56:19
talks about disruption and you know tech disruptors and all that and should I be afraid but this one
56:23
quote from Terry Sprague I think sums it up as she says while others are doubling down on artificial
56:30
intelligence I'm doubling down on human intelligence yeah I love that it's good stuff that's how you win
56:38
that's with the big boys and girls the tech disruptors can't do can they take market share
56:42
yes absolutely they're they're going to do it but you've got to protect your market share and I
56:47
think the best way to do that is through relationships connections partnerships and things like
56:50
that yeah so yeah man thank you so much once again you want to learn more go to grow my family
56:57
office dot com we'll have more information there you can learn more take the next steps just
57:01
and appreciate your time very very much oh and by the way for those who want to get the book
57:04
where do they get the book we're going to put a link in the show notes yeah so
57:08
so good audible Amazon are easy ways for everybody to have it delivered if you want to also
57:14
join my email list you go to think bigger re.com forward slash book that's probably another way
57:23
to get it to you so and that it'll be less expensive than on Amazon so and listen to your podcast
57:28
as well you can find that on the same website think bigger re.com podcast you're gonna learn a lot
57:34
by going there as well so hey appreciate make a time band I know you're super busy a pleasure man
57:39
such a pleasure all right so listeners you know what to do hey take the next step so everything
57:42
is right for you if you like this episode leave us a review and share it with somebody else we'll
57:46
see you on the next one bye for now hey guys what's up real quick you've heard about the mortgage
57:50
marketing pro membership before and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in
57:54
your business where you simply need more purchased loans you need to fill your pipeline with purchase
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business let's just face it agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase
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business for you well good news our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you
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close more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling done for you agent classes
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expert training videos a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you
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everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market attract and convert agents
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real easy but that's not all you'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls
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right now in today's market and as an extra bonus for limited time for all new members you'll get
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access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from 8 to
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50 transactions in the last 12 months and we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for
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you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents so what are you waiting
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for you can check out more at mortgage marketing dot pro see more of the success stories there
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and if you feel compelled to do so book a call we'll have a chat we'll see if it's a fit don't
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miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now head over
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to mortgage marketing dot pro