Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Financial Abuse And Control

Transcript

Financial Abuse And Control · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
• 0:08
  Today I'm going to be talking about financial abuse and
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  control and this is something that many people experience when
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  they don't really understand how the money is managed in their
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  house or their partner tells them, you know that there are
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  various savings and and plans and this and that, but they have
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  no idea what any of them are. And and there's also, of course,
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  the situation where people think that they are being financially
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  controlled, but in reality they are opting out of understanding
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  this stuff and the other persons trying to get them to.
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  So we'll talk about both of those situations today, among
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  others. Before that, I'll tell you to
• 0:47
  subscribe most recent subscriber episode and there's about over
• 0:51
  150 others is you can Co create a happy marriage.
• 0:55
  So intentionally and mindfully you can create a good marriage
• 0:58
  and that's what a therapist helps you do.
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  But I also talk about what what that philosophy and that
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  worldview looks like in that episode.
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  All right. So I work obviously with with
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  many people who have money as it is, you know, as we are out of
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  network our practice and I have coaching clients and therapy
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  clients and and people have money, you know, and that does
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  not mean though that that both people feel that they have money
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  in in any marriage. So over the years I've worked
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  with many people at all income levels and this this isn't even
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  based on your income level at all.
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  Of course it does feel more egregious when when there is
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  like a huge income and one person still doesn't feel like
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  they can spend any money. But generally it's just as bad,
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  obviously at at any level. So.
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  So what does this look like? It looks like that one person,
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  usually the woman, because men out earn women.
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  So men usually make the money and they know where, where it
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  goes and everything, but not always.
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  Obviously, as I've talked about a lot, I have a lot of clients
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  and increasingly 30% of women are are primary breadwinners.
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  And that of course includes single women I think, or single
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  moms. But either way it's growing and
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  growing and growing. So the the number is eventually
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  I would imagine going to equalize to who earns more in
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  the relationship. And over the years that I've
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  been working, I've seen more and more women earn equal to or more
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  than their husband. Now I've never seen that
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  somebody makes way less money, but they're in full control of
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  the money. You know, you hear of those
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  situations, but that was more that's that that's something
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  that I've really never seen is that somebody who makes no money
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  at all says these are all of our retirement accounts and there's
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  this and this and this and this, and we're not allowed to do this
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  because of this. But I am sure that that happens.
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  You know also what I usually see as the person who makes more
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  money though is in charge of how the money is dispensed and what
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  accounts it goes into and what the retirement plans are and
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  what the college savings plans are and what we can spend on and
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  what we can spend on. So this is the person that says
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  no, the thing that you want to spend on is stupid, but the
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  thing that I want to spend on is smart and has all of these post
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  hoc rationalizations why. And I talk this is really linked
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  to my podcast when you can out talk your spouse because often
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  there's a lot of reasons why. Let's say you know the guy
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  getting like a Lux gym membership is is more important
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  than the woman signing up for her glass jewelry class or
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  whatever. I'm just going to use that as an
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  example of a female hobby for now on.
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  You know why if you've listened to prior episodes.
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  But. But the point is one person does
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  not get to make financial decisions and they feel
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  controlled and they often feel like they don't know where the
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  money goes, how much money there is and and what's happening with
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  it, you know, and sometimes there's an allowance sort of
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  situation where one person is given X amount of money into
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  their account and then they have to spend.
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  I've heard things like they have to even buy groceries for the
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  family out of that and. And so they basically have no
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  money that's just for themselves because the other person makes
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  them have to ask as a form of control, you know, So if she
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  wants to go get her nails done, then she has to ask because she
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  doesn't have extra money because she spent the money on the
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  groceries and and the kids stuff and whatever.
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  So who acts like this? Well, it's typically people who
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  are super insecure. This isn't conscious to them,
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  but they don't want the other person leaving them and they
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  feel like if if that person had equal power and that person
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  might leave, you know and and the person may or may not, you
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  know, I have no idea. But they're making it more
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  likely to have an unhappy marriage because this person
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  feels controlled, so they're pretty much self sabotaging.
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  Their main desire is to keep this person invested.
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  And instead of doing it through being loving and attentive,
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  they're doing it through control because they're very insecure.
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  And frequently they grew up in a house where they got coerced and
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  guilt tripped and controlled by a parent.
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  And so that's the way that they know how to keep somebody close
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  is to use these more insidious forms of control and even abuse.
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  Abuse is like if somebody wants to, I mean, and any of it is
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  really quite abusive. So like, let's say you want to
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  go get your hair done right. And he says, no, you're not
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  going to do that. I don't want you to get your
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  hair done. So you're not going to.
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  That's not a good use of money. And then he goes and you know
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  does or whatever he does because of if anything, like anything
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  that isn't buying food for the family or buying, you know, a
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  new roof for the house or whatever is necessary.
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  That's just means like your needs are not as important as my
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  needs and I will use my preferences to control what you
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  do and therefore I will not give you money for the things that I
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  don't consider are valid. So some people use an allowance
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  because that's how they divide things up.
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  One person makes the money and then he gives the other person
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  it's the woman. I've never heard of a man
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  getting an allowance and and I've not, but perhaps it happens
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  and I'm sure people will write in and tell me that.
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  But has to happen in the world. It's a big world, but so she
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  gets XYZ for her allowance and like, they're both OK with it
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  sometimes because she mismanages money from her own account.
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  Like that's like what she thinks is that she has ADHD or she's
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  like an overspender. Sometimes people are really
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  addicted to spending. They're addicted to shopping,
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  for example. I've worked with many people
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  addicted to shopping. It's similar to being addicted
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  to gambling or addicted to anything.
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  You know it's a it's an addiction, the dopamine hit
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  every time that you buy something.
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  So some people ask their spouse to just only give them access to
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  XYZ money, however much that amount is, because they're
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  scared of how they will use it. That's a different sort of
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  situation and that's Co created it.
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  It does. If that is though the only way
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  that that person is working on it, then that's pretty
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  dysfunctional and enmeshed. It's making the partner the
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  prison guard and that person. If you yourself struggle with
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  shopping or spending addiction, then you should be seeing a
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  therapist to treat that so that you don't have to be like a
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  child. Child that is given an allowance
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  by another by the only adult in the room, which is your spouse,
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  because that's not going to be good for your lives.
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  You know that's going to make you increasingly resent that
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  person and yourself esteem is going to drop lower and lower
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  because it's obvious every day that you cannot handle yourself
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  and that person can. So that is not a functional
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  dynamic when there's only one adult in the marriage.
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  So what? There are other situations, by
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  the way, where I've seen men who are begging the woman to sit
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  down and look at all of the accounts in case they die or
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  something, you know, and she don't, She won't.
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  She's like, I can't, I can't deal with that.
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  I don't understand money. Don't, don't even show it to me.
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  So that is not a situation. That is financial control.
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  And frequently men in that situation are like, this sucks,
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  but this is an extreme burden. And I wish that I had a teammate
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  who was sitting with me saying, OK, maybe we should, you know,
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  put this amount away from our paychecks for retirement.
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  And and you know, how much do we need in retirement?
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  And like to somebody who grew up feeling that their parents were
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  not a team, you know, and and did see maybe financial abuse or
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  control or substance use or fighting or whatever, they
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  really have a yearning to be a team member.
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  You know, to be like a team player with their spouse and to
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  make big decisions together and to very much feel like decisions
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  are made. And there's like a system of
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  checks and balances because otherwise it feels like they are
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  the only adult in the room and they are some sort of, you know,
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  it's like a parent, child dynamic.
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  And they don't want that. And then in some cases, and I
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  have a podcast and a post why women are scared of making
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  money. A lot of women are told that
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  they're just not good at math or not good with money, and they
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  just have a lot of anxiety around money at all.
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  And they almost prefer to put their head in the sand.
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  A lot of younger women in particular, as you get older,
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  you see like don't do that. You know you want to know what's
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  happening with your money. And and it can be very helpful
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  to go to therapy if you're a woman and focus on why do I, why
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  am I scared of making money? Why am I scared of of knowing
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  about money? Like what do I think is going to
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  happen? A lot of people who didn't grow
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  up with money by the way, when they do finally when when their
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  husband makes some or they make some, they don't know what to do
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  with it. They like keep it all in their
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  checking account or something. They don't know how to invest
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  it. They get scared that they're
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  going to make the wrong decision, that they're somehow
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  going to fuck things up and be you know evicted or homeless or
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  some something that makes absolutely no sense based on the
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  amount of money that's around but made sense based on their
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  childhood. You know where financial
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  instability was a thing. It's very hard to go from 1
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  socio economic class to the other.
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  I work with a lot of self-made people and that definitionally
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  they're going from 1:00 to the other, you know.
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  And so you know there there are so many ways that this manifests
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  and always what ends up happening, at least from what I
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  see. For people who eventually come
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  into therapy or, you know, people who are in my Facebook
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  group, 'cause you should always join my Facebook group.
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  There's a lot of discussions about money and who manages the
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  money and and such in there. What ends up happening as I said
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  is that the resentment build and the parent child dynamic becomes
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  more obvious And then particularly as people get older
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  and the woman grows more confident then she is, she says
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  where is our money? What is happening with it?
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  I want to see it, you know, I don't even know what I would do
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  if you left me for example do where are the accounts?
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  Like, what's going on and and at that time, the man, if if there
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  were any elements of control, he could feel threatened, like she
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  doesn't trust him. You know, like basically as
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  though your child was saying you're being a bad parent, you
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  know, because now the person who is dependent, the dependent is
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  saying, I don't want to be dependent, I want to be
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  independent. I want to know what's going on.
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  So it's kind of the same effect on the marriage as like
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  parenting a teenager is on being a parent, which can be very
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  difficult as the teenager tries to individuate and talk back.
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  And that's almost how it's perceived in these situations.
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  Now, there are also situations where the lower earner spends
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  more, that's for sure. Men don't tend to feel that
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  that's financial abuse or control because it's so obvious
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  that they get the paycheck and that they are, you know,
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  consenting to how things are spent, you know, definitionally.
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  I mean, they could have their paycheck routed into a different
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  account, you know, if they wanted to.
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  But this, these are situations where like the woman says, oh, I
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  need, you know, let's say a new kitchen and the guy wants to go,
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  you know, take a family vacation.
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  And she says we don't have money for that.
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  We only have money for this thing.
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  So like, of course there's many situations where the woman is
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  the stronger personality and the one that makes the decisions,
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  and the man may or may not resent that no matter who earns
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  the money. But situations of financial
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  abuse generally tend to be I can use this money for what I want
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  and you cannot use it for what you want, especially things that
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  are just for you. But there is also an element of
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  control in general and who makes decisions whether or not they
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  have to do with money. And sometimes people do use
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  money as a last resort, you know, when they don't know what
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  else to do. So like if if let's say a woman
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  really did not want to travel because she's so anxious and
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  germophobic and she thinks that the kids are going to get sick
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  if they go on a plane, well she might say I don't want to go
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  because it's too expensive, you know, or or anything like that.
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  Or if she's scared that he's going to go get drunk and cheat
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  on her on a boys trip, she's going to say we don't have money
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  for a boys trip. So that is a different sort of
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  thing. And of course a man too, he
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  doesn't want her to get a bunch of new outfits because he's
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  scared that that means that she's not into him, that she
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  wants to go out with her girlfriends.
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  A very preoccupied attachment man would say no, you can't get
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  a new outfit for going out with your girlfriends to your friends
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  to the moms night out, because we don't have money for that.
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  But in reality, he's threatened because she wants to look good
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  when she goes out and he's not going to be there.
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  So there are also many, many times that people use money
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  consciously or subconsciously. This could be below the level of
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  consciousness as a control mechanism and it's because they
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  have a different sort of insecurity that they don't feel
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  as comfortable voicing. So if this resonates with you at
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  all and and you don't know how money is managed in your home
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  and you realize that you want to, then that would be a
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  discussion that you can have. There are you know you could go
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  to couples therapy to deal with that.
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  Definitely the money is a big thing that is talked about in
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  couples therapy. It's one of the biggest problems
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  a couples face. It's like up there with like
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  parenting in laws, money, sex. Like there's, you know, those
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  are big, big issues. And if you do not feel confident
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  having these discussions at first with your partner and then
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  in individual therapy, you can figure out why you either do use
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  money to control. Because some people are
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  listening to this and they're like, oh, that's uncomfortable.
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  You know, like, I wonder if that's what I'm doing.
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  And I know that my partner has said that they don't understand
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  what goes on with the money in this house and this and that and
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  why do we have money for some things and not other things and
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  blah, blah. So that could be something to
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  explore too. 9 times out of 10, a parent used some sort of
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  course of guilt trippy control to make you stay close, and that
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  may have backfired. You may be estranged from a
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  parent that did that, but still you learn that mechanism of
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  control, you know? So that's kind of your go to.
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  All right, well, I hope you guys found this interesting and do
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  subscribe and I will talk to y'all soon.
• 15:29
  Have a great day guys.