Latest / Total Barnage / Stop Taking Advice From THESE People!!! Bodybuilding, Injuries, And Rest Days

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Stop Taking Advice From THESE People!!! Bodybuilding, Injuries, And Rest Days · Total Barnage

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's good, but uh but we need some new chairs.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: We do need some new chairs.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I do kind of like I really enjoy the setup in the in the studio.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um and Bern has done a fantastic job with the video because this is also out on YouTube.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not, you know, if you're listening on Spotify, you can see this video.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: We've also posted it onto YouTube, and so you can chuck it on your TV.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um because I don't know.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you ever listen or watch podcasts on YouTube?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's nice.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's good background, good background sound, but you can also then kind of lock in a little bit.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of nice to see to see the people having a little chat, isn't it really?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse me, little Coke Zero fizzy fizzy.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was chatting to um a client, new client this morning, and uh he has a YouTube channel.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um he's getting his gold plaque today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh hey, is he the one that Guy had in the other day?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Who's a couple years above us?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, and he's got his gold plaque, his million subscriber plaque.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we're talking about how like pop podcasting is you know, is now kind of a bit more into like that film type energy, um, and it's you know long form.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: He said he's gonna do well, I won't say too much, but he's got obviously a one million subscriber special.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: So cool.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's I think he'd be right.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we haven't we don't even know who it is, you know.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: No, but you know, you know, if you if you are listening um and you you find that you might just want to chuck it in the background of uh when you're just sitting scrolling um and you could just double up and have us on YouTube, total barnage on YouTube.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Double whammy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: But today we are not gonna be talking about the state of uh podcasting and how it's rapidly catching up to film and about how we should be doing premiers and probably go to Hollywood soon.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Should be.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, my hey, sky's the limit, man.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sky's the limit.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Today is uh we're gonna do a little recap, recap sesh.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's me and Charlotte.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, and uh we're gonna well, first of all, let's talk about where you were at the weekend.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this weekend I had a a very cool weekend.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I went to the Arnold's Expo in the UK, um, which for those of you who don't know, um Arnold Schwarzenegger, one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time, he now holds an expo, which is like a big fitness expo, held in the NEC in Birmingham, which is I don't even know what it stands for, the national NEC.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, I don't know.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Something centre?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Something centre.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Exercise centre.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Exhibition centre.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it could be the expo, makes sense.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anyway.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Great, and it hasn't, we haven't had it in the UK for a couple of years now.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why they didn't do it last year.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't, I think I don't know if we've had it for two years, maybe we haven't had it for two years, but um, they do it every year in the US and it's basically it's like a big expo, but it also has a huge bodybuilding show, which is probably the second, one of the arguably one of the most important bodybuilding shows uh after the Olympia, and then some of the kind of big ones like the Pittsburgh Pro, the New York Pro and stuff like that.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: So really, really cool to see some of the greatest bodybuilders up on stage in real life.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my god, they're just in you don't you cannot comprehend it until you see it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it they are ridiculous, they don't look real.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I can imagine it's the same as like when you you see people running on the TV as in like watching them as they're on TV, not like running over TVs, running on the TV, and you go, Oh, you know, I know they're running fast, but they're not running that fast, and then you go to a track and you're like, Oh my goodness, these people are quick.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: These people are pace, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a it was but even for you that you know you've been to competitions, yeah, is it still one of those like wow, this is maybe a level?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was the first pro show I've ever watched, so you know, I've been to obviously because I competed last year, so I've seen quite a lot of amateur competition competitions.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've been I did an amateur pro qualifier, um, and I've also seen some assistor competitions where um I had a friend who was competing last year.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you do see some pretty good athletes there, but the standard from amateur to pro is it's mind-boggling.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't as I said, I cannot you cannot comprehend it when you look at them.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they look like wax figures, um, and it's just so inspiring and it's so cool.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean these these pros as well, like there's going to pro show and then there's going to pro show where there are some of the best pros there, and these lot are like some of the best pros in their categories.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: So give me give me some names.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Who were uh talking before Sam Sulek?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you got Sam Sulek who so Sam Sulek turned pro at the Arnolds in the States last year, which was really cool.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: So he is fresh, fresh into the pro worm, but uh a super popular bodybuilder just because of his YouTube as well.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like people love him.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know what he you can just tell as well, like there's been a lot of controversy him doing that on the Arnolds and stuff, and some a lot of amateurs as well going into him for his posing and you know, saying, like, you know, why is he there?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of hate.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the guy, he's not you can see that he's not trying to be on stage to try and mog these these outsize, or he just loves body building, and obviously, you know, at the end of the day, if you're pro, everybody's you're in competition with everybody, but you can tell he's up there, he's just enjoying himself.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's not trying to be, he's not getting head lost because he's not doing really well.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: You he's genuinely smiling on the stage.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: He you can see him, you can literally see him processing everything, standing on the side of the stage, just thinking, like looking around, thinking, oh my god, like I'm up here.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because that guy's grinded for a long time, and and he's been passionate about bodybuilding for a long time, and it's just really nice to see.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's just loads of people giving him payton line.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, these people are such a weeners, man.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Just leave the boy alone.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he's just there for good for good vibes, literally there for good vibes.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he does love the game.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was I went to the Gym Shark lift event, the Lift London back in November, maybe something around then.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I mean, he was there, he did the podcast with Chris Williamson.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: He's asking him questions, a bit of like a live podcast, and he is just one of those people that just loves the gym.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he does it because he loves it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: I saw a video of him so sweet, it's so sweet.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they were doing they were doing some some sort of movement um in the gym or talking about some generic movement like day-to-day, and he was like, Oh, that's that's like a that's like a tricep, that's like a behind-the-head like tricep extension.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: And he just you can see that his gym mind, like he sees everything in the gym, and he's like you you can see that he's he just loves it, and I think it's does it is it quite clicky then the when you're at the top?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: The body but I mean we've spoken about this before, but but but the the world of bodybuilding is a an interesting one.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: You meet some really lovely people within this industry, and then there's some people who just got you know massive egos, and some people just aren't very friendly, like it's all a bit, but they all like you see the guys competing on stage, and you know, they're all fist bumping each other like at the end because you know some of these guys have known each other for ages for so, for example, the top two in men's classics, so you've got Wesley Vissers, who is incredible, he's his nickname is a Dutch hoak, he's from the Netherlands, and then you've got Mike Summerfield who is German, um, and he is in insane, insane, and these two have been on the stage.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think since classic was made a specific category.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: So for those of you who don't really know bodybuilding, so you've got I also don't really know body, but it's worth saying exactly.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: So how so with bodybuilding, like the main three categories for men, you've got men's physique, you've got classic, and then you've got open.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: So men's physique is they wear board shorts, they wear slightly longer shorts.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and basically, someone's gonna absolutely raise me with this because I don't know the men's categories that well, but it's basically they have a slightly more uh top-heavy physique.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now they still need to have developed legs, but compared to when you look at the classic men and the open men, their legs are nowhere near as developed, but they still have good legs.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's why they hide them with the board shorts.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of it, yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's more about showing it's kind of like the aesthetic kind of like like a you know what most men like kind of training, like really.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna say, oh, most men, someone's gonna raise me.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so bad.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm overthinking everything I say, but yeah, kind of like a like a fitness model kind of vibe where they've got strong legs, solid legs, but they've also got that proper, like like kind of like Ken.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Think about a Kendall, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Small waist, serious back trip, yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Think about a Kendall, small ways, big shoulders, like top, like very, very and they look mental.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then you go into classic.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the difference between classic and open, so in the good old days, bodybuilding, it used to just used to be like open bodybuilding.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: So when Arnold and stuff did it, it was all just like the same thing.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: An open meaning no weight category, no weight cap, yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't I don't think there's a weight cap, but basically with classic, there is a cap for your height.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are too heavy for your height and you can't cut to any like you know, you can't get any lighter, you have to go into the open category.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you are too dense and you cannot like fit in that cap when you do your prep, you have to move to open, basically.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really like a BMI.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Open it, oh I guess I guess so, but it just look at the difference between the open guys and the classic guys.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean the classic guys are and I actually personally I really like the look of the classic physique.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um no bias there or anything.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, no, I think classic.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you think about classic now, you think about kind of how Arnold used to look, really.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think he kind of almost was again got to be careful what I say, but he was kind of like the blueprint for classic.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Someone's gonna roast me.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: So this is me, I'm very nervous, you know.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's because the bodybuilding is quite toxic.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: So someone's gonna come in and see this and go, Yeah, but I don't know.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: I always think that someone's gonna say something wrong.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a female competitor, I don't know as much about the male, but I equally it is it's just as impressive, you know.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, like I you just it's just incredible.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: So Mike Summerfield, this is what I was gonna say.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it was cool to see him compete because with the Arnolds in Ohio, which is like kind of arguably the slightly bigger Arnolds, it's the American Arnolds, he was meant to compete for it and he didn't make his weight cap.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: So he couldn't compete in classic, and you know, he's one of the best classic competitors there is, he was too heavy, so he managed to get his weight down for the UK Arnolds to fit in the cap, which was like it was so nice because so Wes won the Arnolds in the States, and then Mike came and won the Arnolds in the UK, and oh my god, just the like they're both their physiques are absolutely incredible, but it was so cool to see them on stage.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um they do the same poses, you have the same posing routine?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think the classic posing in the open posing, I think there's a few slightly different ones.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you know when Chris Bum said he retired, he went and did was it Prague?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he then competed in the open.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he did a speech and then he competed in the open just for a bit of fun because he'd finished, you know, he'd finished with his classic bodybuilding career, like he was just you know, he'd won the MP too many times.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Chris Bum said pulling a hammy, pulling a hammy left right and centre.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Bless him, man.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so he then competed in the open because just because he's always loved it, and he you know, it is there are some slightly different poses, but yeah, it's just it's very cool to see, and it's really funny how you know you watch the crowd just get so excited over just these people who are basically half naked on the stage going yeah, but it's cool, man, it's cool, and it's it's inspirational because obviously I'm kind of into that world a bit more now, and you know, seeing these wellness pros, like I've missed the bikini pre-judging on Saturday, which was annoying, but I saw the wellness finals on Friday.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, they got their glutes look like they're just like 40, like they I can show you like some they were incredible, and the coolest thing for me is I met the top two in the comp so I met Hayani Fogal, Fog Fogal, um, she's Brazilian, and then Giselle Machado, who is also Brazilian, and they're just they looked mental in real life.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I got a picture of them.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I was literally I walked off and I was like, this is crazy.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've been because I've been following them for ages, and yeah, fangirl is so and they were so lovely as well.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: They were so so lovely, but yeah, they just don't look real.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: They just don't look real.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: But then when you chat to them, is it is it kind of like because they're on the stage, or even when you even when you talk to them because everything is very aesthetic and clean.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, does it still seem a little bit like it's like superimposed because it's so you know what I mean?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's so aesthetic.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it also just like you know, they come all the way from Brazil, so you just don't think you're gonna meet these kind of people, and to meet them is mega, and they yeah, like obviously, like you know, their English is pretty good as well, but like obviously there's only so much they kind of can say, like they're all pretty good at English now, and they I think a lot of them are learning it because you know when they do competitions, you know, the main thing they speak is English when they win, but um yeah, it's just it's just really cool.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the only word I can kind of use, like just so cool.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um does it inspire you in your in your training at the moment?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, you're not competing this year, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: It really does, it really does.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like to see that it's like, damn, I need to go and train glutes a bit more.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, fuck, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's so interesting though, because you'd you'd assume like you can always you always think, you know, for the most part, the way that you do your training and the way that everything is structured, you're kind of doing everything you can.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you always think you can do everything you can.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then you go to an event where you see the people that you know you kind of aspire to be on the same level as them, or even if you're going on your own journey, like that's where that's the people that you're going to be competing against.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, if, you know, when, let's say.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: If I hop on assistance.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: But but like you still, you go there, you're inspired to do more, like it kind of highlights that there's always still more that you can do.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: If you were okay, so obviously you've looked at you know, glutes, improve your glutes.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: How would you then it's a win against saying, oh, you know, you go and like maybe you train differently.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: What would you do?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like there be what would you do?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because obviously you've got the programming that works for you.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you then also have the knowledge already of maybe how these girls are training.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think I mean, and this is um Alexis, like she's incredible.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Look at the legs.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's I think with bodybuilding, bodybuilding, why does it like that?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Bodybuilding.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's I think for a lot of people as well, it's a matter of time and also genetics.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, I've only been training specifically for this category and like kind of training specifically for bodybuilding.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: I've been training you know since I was 15 years old, but to kind of train towards this category and train with intent and have like a direction to go on.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've only been doing it for basically like what two years.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I was with my coach and then I competed, so I did like a small off season and then I went into prep.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I luckily I had the density, you know, for an amateur, I had a decent amount of density there, but you know, some of these people have been competing since what like 2016, even less, you know, even further back than that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's time and having that muscle maturity, and you you can see like these people have been training for years, like specifically for this category, and it yeah, it just looks mental.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: So is it so is it more so not what you're doing day to day, but considering how long you're gonna be training for at that level?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is also what like what you do day to day, like you know, the people who are what's the word, what's that saying?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like um hard work what's the word?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: What's that thing?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's about basically about like genetics versus being sort of a hard worker, like and you know, people to an extent, you know, you have to have decent genetics, you have decent structure, but you know, the people who are working hard and really pushing for it will outperform to an extent people with good genetics if they're not doing enough to put like to talent, isn't it?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's like talent when talent doesn't work hard, yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's it, you know, you know what work beats genetics when genetics when genetics don't genetic genetic, but yeah, no, like you need to have decent genetics for like to fit into a category, but you know, if you're not working hard, like I know some people who are bang on it with their meals, like you know, I I would say I'm pretty good with my stuff, you know.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have a few off plans because I need variety in my life, but I'm very good at sticking to my training.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I like what I'm training for now and I enjoy my sessions as well, so I'm good with that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you get people who will travel everywhere and they will meal prep everything and be bang on with their macros all the time, so then when they do go into their stuff, you know, they they know what they've done, they know they can they've done everything that they can do.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and those people who kind of can live that robotic life, they do smash it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you see like these pros, and I've you know, I know a few pros now, and they do just hit every single marker with a little bit of flexibility.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's pretty impressive.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's their sport, you know, it's their professional sport.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like like any like any sport, um, you have to kind of stick to it, otherwise you will get people who are doing that extra one percent.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Someone is gonna someone is gonna be doing doing better.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then it's also you know, if you're in the if you're in the sport for so long, it allows you to find time to create your own like personal philosophy in the way that you do things, and so I assume you know these girls that have been doing it for for a good decade, have had a good learning experience over the first couple of years, and then you know, maybe sometimes you become more relaxed, you know, but still doing the same amount of work.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think some people also when you look at your physique as well, like for me, I've definitely me and my coach have clocked that actually my physique actually, I think we could we found kind of I look better when I'm doing less.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we started a cart and we were doing a lot of stuff, like we were doing stair masters and stuff because I thought, okay, we need to change it up from how I did prep because I lost my cycle really quickly.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I found for me personally, so I get stressed very easily.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big stress head, and for me, if I am very stressed, that's the first thing that'll go, and you know, I can't lose that.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I lost it for 10 months at prep, and you know, it's that's not good to have that.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we clocked when I went into the dieting phase.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I my cycle was late again, and it was like we need to we need to change this up, so we reduced my output, and but we just reduced my calories, but because my output was lower, I'm not stressed, I'm not hungry because I'm not tired from kind of doing X, Y, and Z.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that worked really well for me.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas for some people they really need to grind and push with it.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, actually, I look better with yeah, less less stress.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well you you go yeah, you go well, you go to your your capacity.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it is worth saying, yeah, like you know, you could you can have people that work the same in the running world in the sense that you know some people work better off higher mileage, yeah, more running.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: I probably won't when I come back from injury.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not gonna be a case of like pushing the limits and trying to maximise everything.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um you've got to find that personal like.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a big thing that we've kind of for me we've clocked, and I know for a lot of people, like, and it's again the same with any sport, like if you're not recovering well, then you're you're kind of what's the word, cashing in debt that you can't keep up on, can't afford racking up debt.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Racking up debt you can't pay back.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's true.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: So do you find you feel more more kind of less stressed, more at peace with your training?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: How much how much have you dropped the volume or so it's it's not so much with the training, it's with like extra output.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, as a coach, you're the same.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're on our feet a lot in the day, but that might not necessarily mean that we've hit 12k steps.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: So what I used to have is like I used to be doing 12k steps every single day, and that would mean I have to get up, go for a walk in the morning.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, then I might go and train that day, and then I'm coaching in the day, and then I get home and I might have only done like 8,000 steps.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: So then I get home and it's been a long day.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Say I'm working till 7 p.m., I get home, it's about eight, and then I want to have dinner, I need to go to bed early as well, because recovery, recovery, recovery.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: But then I I've got home and I haven't done those steps, so I'm then on a walking pad and it's nine o'clock at that point, and I'm in that kind of stress state where I I don't stop, and I think that's where we kind of clocked.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I said to him, I was like, Can we just try just reducing my steps and I'm I'm fine to drop the calories if that's what we need to do, but we've done that, you know.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now in the morning I'm not having to get up early to go on a walk, and even though I like doing that and I'll sometimes do it on the weekend, making it into like this mandatory thing where I have to do it because if I don't, I'm not gonna be asked to do my steps, and I'll get home and I still have to do steps.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my mum just saying to me, like, you don't really stop, do you?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when you realise that, and then you're like Menti B pending.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and now, you know, most days with 8,500 steps, I get home and I can just put my feet up, and it's really nice.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just I've just found recently, like I said to my coach, I was like, I just feel really chilled, and it's really nice to not be in that kind of fight or flight.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I re I fall into that, and then I think when I'm in that state as well, it reflects in work as well, and I can get stressed and I can get a bit snippy, and it's just not that's not me, it's not who I am.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, it's a a good little good little snippet of information.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you need to do less, guys.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: But less, but less not necessarily first of all, I'm glad I'm glad that you know you're yeah you're able to switch things up, right?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know it it sometimes it takes years of of uh being able to change a an an approach for the fear of not making enough progress.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you can get stuck in that cycle of not making enough progress for For ages and keep going like right, all I've got to do is more, more, more.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it is worth considering and it makes when you're in it, it's very difficult to have the clarity.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of you look at the numbers and you say, Okay, I need to hit this step count, I need to get this amount of sleep, I need to recover, I need to hit the training.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: But then there's loads of stuff that's not on the spreadsheet, and you then those are the things that like really impact.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's it exactly, like mentally as well.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think, especially now with society and how a lot of stuff you get you get online where you kind of I don't know about you, but I I live with the narrative for a long time.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you're just not doing enough, it this isn't enough, you're not doing enough, like you can't, and I think it's so toxic, and sometimes like little things like that can fuel it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you get home, oh but I haven't done that, that's not enough, and then you know, say we're trying to post stuff on online, and that's something I've been struggling with quite a lot a lot recently.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you know, I feel like I'm not doing enough online, I feel like I'm not posting enough content, and you know, there's such a pressure with that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and sometimes you just have to take a little step back and just say it's alright to just chill out a bit, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think that's quite I mean that's quite a good thing to kind of tail off into, isn't it?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we're kind of recapping of the Arnolds, but like just going over like pressures of stuff that you see online, especially kind of around our age, I don't know.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I I'm really this is Tangent City baby, um but that's been something that's playing my mind, and we're doing a bit of an update, aren't we, at the moment?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is, you know, and it's really tough because also a lot of times you try and work out like what you can do on your best days and even like your best weeks, and if you have a good a good few weeks where you know a lot of things you can kind of fit in, you're able to spin plates pretty well.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: You add one extra thing in, and it changes like mathematically as well, the amount of variables, just adding let's say you're you're focusing on working on two things in your life, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say it's your work and your training, let's say.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: If you add in a third, let's say you really also want to do the social, that isn't just adding one thing, it then adds a lot of things onto that, which is then like all the time constraints and stuff.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: You then add a fourth thing onto there, being that you said you wanted to start a you know learning an instrument or something, or you wanted to or you wanted to post on socials or something.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's then you go from like something that's really simple, then it really more a lot more complex, and then so much more complex, but you think I just added one more thing, like it's only it's only taking 30 minutes extra a day.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: But as soon as one thing slips, like then others kind of kind of might go with it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I've I've I've I've had a similar thing recently.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the time for me coming back from recovery from like surgery, yeah, exactly, is always questioning like what is the thing that's going to make the contribution?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's the essential thing right now?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, tomorrow, I'd early start yesterday, clock's gone forward, you know, at the weekend, early start yesterday, went to see the physio, then trained.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Early start today, lots of coaching.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Then I've got I've got stuff to do because I'm going to on a stag do this weekend.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really fun, by the way.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm planning on getting all of my training done.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and hopefully not the morning of the stag when we're up in Edinburgh.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's stress.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then the gym decided to shut, foundry gym decided to shut for like three days this week.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's, you know, what I could do is I could go as a guest to um my stepdad to go to snap, but he goes at court to six in the morning.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I could do that and I could train, but if I look at my sleep and I look at the training capacity and I actually look at the time that I spend in the gym, like a lot of it is like six hours a week is cardio, five hours a week is rehab, and then two to three hours a week is like general leg strength thing and like core and stuff like that.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: I could just scrap the cardio.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's not really that essential.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: But if I got into a process of like, you know, a system of being like, right, I need to.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: This is my day where I go an hour on the bike, I need to do it, or tonight I need to do a skiog session, I need to also do my rehab.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's making a decision, like letting go of the thing where I go, okay, maybe it's not gonna make a huge difference.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, me having a Wednesday completely off, or instead of having one rest day a week, which I normally do, and can manage with that, yeah, I have two rest days, yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like it's because it's you kind of zoom out a little bit, and even saying it, you can you can zoom out and be like, actually, it's probably what's best.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you do you find like at the start when you were like kind of strict on your recovery protocol, if things kind of did get in the way, did you feel a bit like tetchy about it, or did you how did you kind of manage that?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think I've prepared a lot of it over the last couple of years.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I quite deeply understand now that recovery is a lot more just about the like let's say protocols itself, it's a lot more about the things that I do.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I realize a few years back when I was trying to replicate training from when I was in really good shape, I tried to replicate it and it didn't work because I wasn't in the same headspace, I didn't have the same like approach to training.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so my my recovery, like let's say protocols now, the thing that I focus on is make sure I'm getting the work done, make sure I'm getting the nutrition in, and but have like a loose grip on the rest of it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which is why like I'll I'll make sure that I do the thing that's most important, and then other things like if I can do them, then great.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: If not, then like it's okay if I do the main thing, yeah, exactly.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think for me it's like my last eight weeks have been really long because I've been doing so much.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've never done 12 to 15 hour training weeks like strength and cardio.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I never do that when I'm running.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever kind of get that where you feel like you're a bit non-stop and you just need to sit for a second and be like oh 100%.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, my my drive to and from work being 40 minutes, yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: I will I've had a couple of times where I just won't have any audio or anything.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: You just need a bit of silence.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'd literally just have the silence, and I think that deliberate that's the thing that I've noticed, like if something's arising that I'm a bit going a bit fast or a little bit spaced out or I'm you know a little bit too zoomed in, yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and maybe just like reactive, then I can look at it and go, first of all, it's probably my sleep.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, literally my sleep, like that's what it is.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's so it's so so valid.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: So valid.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think you are we're very different in that sense, where I I feel like you are pretty good at managing your stress.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when I've had a few little wobbles with you, the first thing you do is like shut me your sleep.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, gone, let's get your roof set up.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: After comforting you and making sure you're alright.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, you just say shut up.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Show me your sleep.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let me see your sleep stats.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you do actually every time we've spoken about it, like you've gone, sleep's not that great, mate.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit inconsistent.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I've worked on it, surprise, surprise, I felt much better, lads.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's mad about it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it is, I think a lot of people it's something that people overlook so much, like it's such a key thing that people overlook, and you know, some people just do struggle with it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I found my sleep has been, you know, it's the past few weeks has been a little bit more inconsistent, but I found it being so good when I've been like my sleep has just been like as soon as my like we spoke about this the other day, you know, head head's been hitting the pillow, and bow, I'm out.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, literally done.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, get your sleep, guys.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Very important, yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Very important notice of the day.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Sleep, the sleep's crazy.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, last night I was so I was so pollened up with my hay fever, I was basically drowning in my own I don't know what's called mucus.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like coffee going on and then it's going on but then it's you know, and I look at it for a couple of days, like one also one bad night's sleep doesn't matter too much.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Always have this before races, is you make sure that you get the sleep, like good sleep and good hydration and good nutrition.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're not doing it already, just focus on like four days out.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Basics, yeah, and and go like oh, Tuesday, Tuesday night, if I'm racing on a Saturday, make sure that from Tuesday night I'm maybe tapering down, the training might be like you know, easing up a little bit for the weekend, and then making sure I get those nights of sleep in.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I'm relying on having a good night's sleep before the race, and then I've got like the nerves, or I've got you know a little bit of stress and I'm thinking, or you know, I'm trying to work out scenarios, tactics, and things, then I don't have the other nights to just put me at ease.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, like a lot of people would if they have a competition or something, it's not necessarily on that day, like they can get away with having bad sleep, but it's like two to three days in a row, or even weeks, months, like years.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, as soon as I realised that sleep was pretty much the foundation on which all of the other pillars of nutrition and training like sit, it's so it was so obvious to me that it's the first thing I go to.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: The first thing.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think you would have been so much worse off if you weren't so good with your sleep, like winter in terms of your knee as well.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like your knee would have been absolutely fuggered if you weren't as good with your recovery and with your sleep, you know, regardless of how you know how bad your injury was.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's not discredit that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: But can you imagine how shit it would have been?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's been before before prior to getting the op, yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like it would have been so much worse because you weren't letting your body even have that extra 1% chance of recovery.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't even fathom.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if it was me in the same situation, I'd be peg leg.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't even have a leg anymore and chop it off.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe they would have done it earlier, it's too far gone.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Who knows?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Might have been a good thing.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's no, I I think most of it 100% on the you know on the stress side.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like just being able to manage and things will speed up without you realising, like you can't you kind of pack pack things in and you don't give time just to breathe and do nothing.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um so important.
• 32:24
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't realise how important it was because I'd kind of been in that robotic, okay.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I need to get home, I need to see my steps, need to do this, and that oh, I need to practice me, blah blah blah blah blah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I it I suddenly had this realization.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I think it took a couple of times of you know, my mum and you know, my b my dad as well.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're you know, they're never someone the kind of people, or just my family in general, aren't the kind of people that will say that because they're you know they don't like me doing stuff when they're like sitting around.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: They just it's just an observation.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've got a really active family, and they're just like, Charlie, you did you're not really stopping.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: You you you kind of you know, you get home and you can't just chill, you know.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: You just you get home and you're on the walking pad, and we're all having dinner, and then you're cooking dinner and it's late.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and I it took a few times of them to say that, and then I was like, Yeah, this isn't how I used to be, and you know, my recovery was arguably a lot better when I was kind of just reducing my output because I this is what I was trying to say, like I think I did say it earlier, I guess I like to break a record then, but you know, we are we've got a very physical job, so we might not be getting a lot of steps, but we might be cleaning up someone's bar onto the thing when we're helping out a client and putting weights on and not taking weights off and kind of doing that the whole day.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Did you're expelling the same amount of energy as say you are doing 12k steps?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so yeah.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: How do you it's an interesting one you kind of highlighted the having advice from let's say parents or friends that that kind of can see the situation you're in but might not fully like understand it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Gauge it, yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: How do you get the balance right between taking the advice and being like actually like you've got a point, yeah, or just turning around and saying you don't understand?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is just what it takes.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's one of those things I think you have to be selective with who you take advice from because there's that saying, I can't remember the specific saying, but it's about like you know, not taking advice from someone who's never gone where you want to go, right?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's a really, really good saying, but I also do believe like you know, with your family, because my family really supports what I do, like I think I think it was we've spoken about quite a lot.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Bodybuilding is pr a pretty controversial sport.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and a lot I know a lot of people who do it whose families just are like, Oh, you are you're training again, like they're just constantly kind of taking the mick out of them for like meal prepping stuff, and oh, when are you gonna be normal again?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Saying stuff like that, and I think you know, for a lot of people, like that structure and routine is really good for some people, and you know, at least they're normal.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And my family have never just never hit me with the oh when are you gonna be normal again?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they are really supportive, so for me, you know, as much as I do quite like that saying, like, you know, don't take advice from someone who you know doesn't want to go where you go, I also really appreciate my family's opinion because I know that they really support me and they do have my best interest in mind and they you know they support what I'm doing.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um so in terms of how I navigate it, I don't it's hard.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think when I was in prep when they were saying, Oh, aren't you don't you think you're doing too much?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that no, actually, I just had to follow what my coach said.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's just extreme.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's extreme, and you know, my coach really knows what he's doing, he's got my best interest in heart, and actually I you know, I look at some of the other protocols that other girls that I was competing against were on, you know, minus sub a thousand calories and steps are crazy and they're on the stairmaster every single day.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: The stuff that my coach made me do was pretty simple and it got me into really good shape, so I really trust his opinion, and I know he also really cares about his clients, he's not just kind of seeing us as numbers.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um so in that thing, you know, I I mean I was just a bit snappy on prep anyway, but I just didn't really listen to other people's opinions, I just kind of put it to the side.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you know, in my off season when I am trying to push with other stuff and I, you know, trying to grow business and you know the work that we've got here as well, like I take on board people who I appreciate's opinion a little bit more, if that makes sense.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that it is a level-headed thing to say, and uh, you know, when I look at it from the outset, if I am doing too much, then yeah, like I I I had to take a step back and go, okay, yeah, I am kind of stressed 24-7 and I'm not giving myself a chance to breathe.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, being a little crazy scatty brain that I am as well, you do need that time to just go and just like chill out.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think yeah, I there's a time and a place for taking advice from people who aren't doing what you're doing.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: But when they're people that I I'm just repeating what I'm saying, and I but when yeah, when they're a good point.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: When the people who know you and know that you know, you know, I've I've competed in sports my whole life, they know that I'm not myself, um yeah, I just took their advice a little bit and it's worked out for the best.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is the the most important thing, the thing that comes to my head straight away is like that's it's a difficult thing even with people that know you, let alone trying to take advice on the internet from people who've got no idea about you and just seeing like if your algorithm is people saying, right, you need to grind, don't take rest days, like if you're resting, I'm training, you're behind.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's toxic, you know.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: How how it's so toxic, it's difficult enough in real life, then add the online life, the pressure, how how are you able to you know filter it?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it is you know, it I I always see that the advice is like if if it does make you feel a certain type of way, like if you feel uncomfortable from someone saying you're training too hard, maybe there is some truth in and it makes you feel like oh okay, maybe it's worth exploring that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, am I doing what's best for me?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I was really like comfortable in it, would I have reacted that way?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, unless you're on the flip side, right?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like complete utter delusion.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're not even gonna take advice from anyone, yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, it's complex, I think it's hard to say in isolated situations.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I think there's always I have like a budget that I just expect of people that will give advice.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I mean, injury, like especially being visible.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: The amount of times that I've been talking about my injury, people asking, and it's all out of good, you know, yeah, big faith, and they're like really curious.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is people will express concerns for me moving in a certain way, being like, Oh, you sure you can lift that and stuff.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Yeah, it's cool.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: Being self-aware, isn't it?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's also saying, like, yeah, actually, you might have just caught me at a point where I wasn't paying any attention, probably shouldn't be lifting that yet, probably need to back off.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like having a bit of I guess it's maybe like humility or distance with your own training as well.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you can and that's the thing with slowing down, is you're the one that's experiencing your own training in your own life.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: If you can gain a bit of distance from that and separate yourself from that, it then gives you a better perspective, yeah, and you can easily have more clarity of if what you're doing is probably right for the moment.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my my stuff's just all writing, writing things down.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely got a new journal.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you're it's a lovely journal as well, it's a very nice journal, it's got planets on.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: It has got planets on.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Very philosophical.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I wrote the first thing, that journal that I wrote.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, why did I buy this one?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm in the shop and I went and bought a subject.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: Cool, it's cool, man.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, because it felt right, and I wanted to buy it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: I said, that's a good enough reason, because it felt right, and that is literally going back to what we were talking about.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if it feels right, it's it's self-reflection with these things, I think.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: A big, big thing, and that's something that I've been trying to focus on a little bit more recently.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, people will say something that's an opinion.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Give yourself some time to think about that and think about how the situation, regardless of that person's opinion, does make you feel, and that that self-reflection, and it's uh yeah, it's a wonderful thing.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes incredibly uncomfortable, and you know, making you make a change to your routine that you've been setting for a while as well, um yeah, can it can be nerve-wracking, but just taking that little step like you did, you know, originally with a different decision, you know, it sometimes it works out for the best.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: I do think like I kind of think about when I've made changes in and taking advice.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of it is a lot of it is online, a lot of it is from podcasts that I listen to.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: But the difference is is that it's not necessarily like I don't I can't listen to podcasts about cross-training or about coming back from specific injuries because there aren't any, and I'm not gonna listen to them for the most part.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just I'm doing the thing, and and so I listen to podcasts that are about something that's like not running related, but a lot of the time, if it's like in a business space, it's someone talking about their business and growing and working with people or something, it's the advice that I take is from that, but then I apply it to what you're doing, to what I'm doing.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but because because maybe it just doesn't it doesn't have that same like threat to my identity, and I'm more willing to change it because I go, they're not pointing fingers about me for operating, it's more like oh, that person's doing things differently.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if it works for my thing.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: Let me see if I try it out.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: If not, it wasn't even meant for me anyway.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it doesn't really matter, you know.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting, actually.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: What else is at the Arnolds then?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: What else did you uh so you saw it?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: So you you fangirlled.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Fangirlled heavily.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but there was also some other bits and mobs there which were quite cool, I think, for people who like are interested in like strong man, strong women, there uh strongman and strongwomen cops.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I caught a little glimpse of it, but I was a little bit more tuned into the kind of bodybuilding stuff.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a power powerlifting competitions there as well, which is sick.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some very, very strong people.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what else are there?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: There are lots of stools with lots of different kind of supplement brands.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: So my the brand that I'm with, ESN.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um they had a stool.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: Very coach Anad.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um they had a really sick stool, and um coolest thing is where's Vissers, so the guy that came second, he's actually with ESN.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's still with ESN.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty sure, yeah, pretty sure it is.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, some big bodybuilders that are with them.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we had some cool people on the stand.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they had a on the stand they had a 110 kg dumbbell.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you could hold it for 10 seconds, single, and it was a it had a thick grip as well, so they they made it quite hard.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you could hold it for like 10 seconds, or even I think it was actually just pick it up with one hand.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you got like they gave away some samples, and um the people that I was with tried to do it, and then they were letting a girl do it with two hands.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Oh, can I try it with two hands?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, a piece of cake, just held it for 10 seconds, and I got loads of samples of that.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Probably don't really need these, but yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Charles.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like ISOClear?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: ISO Clear.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: A clear way.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go on then, why not?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can bring him, I can bring him some bit more.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, they've actually got some fun, fun.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I'm I don't think I'm To talk about it, but they've got some fun things launching, which I'll let you know.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, post-podcast, but yeah, uh, so there was that stool and the other the other big kind of um supplement brands around there as well, which were cool.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, I met so I just met some really cool people.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I met a few other pros who I really like as well.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I met a wellness pro called Chelsea Warnes, who I followed for a while, spoken to online.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: She's really lovely.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: She was just working on stand and I just went up to her, I was like, Chelsea, and she recognized me.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh my god! And we had a little chat for a while, she was lovely.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then there's this Spanish pro called Ruth Patisco, Patisco, I think that's how he says her name.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: She was really nice, so she was at the final, so her partner is a photographer, a very good kind of fitness photographer who loves a lot of events.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: So he I think he was doing a bit of the photography for the show.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I chatted to her for a bit, but yeah, it was just it was just cool, man.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: There were some very, very cool people, a lot of like Gymshark athletes there.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, loads of Gymshark athletes, EQ athletes, like all of that.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Sam Suilek was there, well, yeah, competing.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um did that mean that there was a big Gym Shark team, yeah.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: But Gym Shark didn't have a stool there.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was funny, and also the Arnolds are sponsored by Young LA, but Young LA didn't have a stool there and like Young LA.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Young LA, yeah, they're just one of like hip cool clothing brands, but yeah, there weren't really any kind of big activewear brands there.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: There was, I don't know if you've heard of Gym Reapers, they were there.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Gym Reapers, yeah, it's very bodybuilding core.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, there were some there were some kind of smaller like apparel brands there, but mainly supplement brands and also like uh gym machine brands, so like Panata were there, I think they were called body form power, body power, something like that.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, yeah, it's just look it up, look it up, go go on the photos.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Only thing that was very disappointing.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: So there were some food stalls, we're not gonna talk about those.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: We're just gonna talk about those.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: But they're only like usually poison.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, god, don't talk about it.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Poor chicken tacos, don't eat those guys.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there were yeah, usually at bodybuilding shows I have like like a lot of people like the post-show treats, right?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: The big chunky cookies.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: There were none of those stools.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: I thought they were gonna have loads of them.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I really wanted a nice little cookie.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: There was a fudge stool, but didn't really want any fudge to be honest.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: There's only so much fudge you can eat.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know fudge is a bit do you know what I mean?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Couples in bodybuilding.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: You said one of the bodybuilders, her boyfriend husband, is a photographer.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: What's the what's the general like do bodybuilders go out with other bodybuilders?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is it like is it all kept in within the wellness side?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because I imagine it's quite a you know extreme lifestyle.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you have to be obviously either very like supportive as a partner, or you kind of had to know what's understand it, right?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's the thing I think that's a great topic to speak about, really.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like you get a lot, a lot of bodybuilders will date, marry other bodybuilders because it is really nice when someone just understands what you're doing, and you know, I've dated people in the past who might have been into the gym, but then they don't really get bodybuilding to an extent, and you know, you might be on a cart and they're like, Oh, you know, that they're not very supportive with that thing, and when you're trying to be regimented, it's just nice to know someone who just knows you're doing that for that kind of reason.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you have to like you know, it's also very normal to date someone who doesn't bodybuild.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know a lot of people who date people who like aren't into the gym at all and they're bodybuilders, but yeah, you get a lot of kind of pros that are together.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's his bloody name?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Completely Martin Fitzwater, for example.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: So he's a really good open pro bodybuilder, and he's dating Alexis, I can't remember her surname, but she's called Alexis Nicole on Instagram, so she's the one I showed you, the one with the yeah, wham legs, so she's incredible.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: So she I think she came forth in wellness and he came forth in open.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but they're together, and you get yeah, you get a lot of people.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: Both outside of the medals, huh?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's peak.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's such a separate, especially for Martin Fitzwalter, bless him.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, they're they're great bodybuilders and they're together, and it you know, it can work really well.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think most of the time, you know, bodybuilding couples do work really well together because you can go and train together, and there's lots of things that you have in common and you share the same lifestyle, right?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um the thing a few couples uh also with like just prepping.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, say you're doing a competition, that's just one thing that a lot of couples will face.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, are we gonna be okay on prep together?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you're both starving and when you're both kind of who's gonna carry the boats, yeah.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Who's gonna carry the boats?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Who's gonna be the 80% when you're 20%?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you're both 20%, but a lot of couples do it really well together.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, yeah, it's a really common thing.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really, really common thing to date other bodybuilders.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um two people that are just mega stressy and low energy.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's vibes in the house.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the thing is, some people manage their preps really well.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't okay, right.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: So all this time I've been thinking, like, oh yeah, it's people get really angry and start like throwing, you know, potatoes at other people.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean I was on a prep?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: I got here, I joined the gym when you were.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Was I still on prep?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: First couple of weeks.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: My first impression with you was just, you know.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Quiet.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um quiet is the word, yeah.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: And weak.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Slightly weak.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had a couple of pizzas after my training.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Resting all the time.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Low steps.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: A lot.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: A lot.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: It y it was just, you know what?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: I you know actually, I say I didn't manage my prep.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: I actually would say I managed my prep quite well.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just near the end when, you know, as I've touched on a lot, it's quite a physically demanding job that we do.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're warming up classes, when you're warming up clients, when you're picking up weights, near the end, I just could I was so tired.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: I could my foot it was my forearms that hurt so much.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, near the end I was just a bit more snippy.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think my poor mother took the brunt of it a little bit.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: She's also not great at reading the room with stuff, to be fair.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um on me, but yeah, I was just a bit snippy, a little bit snippy, and I I I I like food, so when that's pulled away from me, I don't like life.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or people.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm joking, I'm joking.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, yeah.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, people people can manage it quite well, and some people don't manage it as well because some people just see food food as energy, whereas I miss flavours, you know what I mean?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I went I went through a period of especially uni, just seeing food as like convenience.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is petrol to fill up the tank.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can eat such bland food to be fair.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just flavours, man.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: I love cooking, but that's I think it's like one of my hobbies, so yeah, going to kind of having stuff where it's kind of like the same thing like every other day.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then you know, when you're reducing, you can't have sauces near the end and stuff that's got extra calories in, it gets a bit peak.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Black coffee.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like post-surgery, all of my meals was just like I had my one like shake.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the same.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: To be fair, I still have it if I'm like like today if it's really busy, I'm like, I'll have it.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: It really doesn't taste that nice.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh like one of the my clients.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: It smells nice.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: The the peanut butter and vanilla.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it is alright.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's just I wouldn't really recommend it to someone like it.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Bland.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is it bland?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's very bland.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't even have a banana this morning.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh charge at the sweetness.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like a whack of date in there.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: The date that you chewed on earlier.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: They're good.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's a bit of sweetness.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I could probably just like, you know, have a have an injection of nutrition sometimes and be like, right, cool.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: A nourishment, you know, those cans, what they're called, nourishment.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: You get them from like a like a huel corner shops.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh well, nourishment's been around for a long time.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's not a hue.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: They're like a they're actually they're kind of like a just a high-prechent worship, but they're kind of can.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can we can clip it, we can put one up, yeah.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: But they're I try not to make my chocolate milk into that because I love my chocolate milk.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and sometimes I might just have it and it's down in like 20 seconds.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh I enjoy it.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't enjoy it.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: I still saw it, I thought, ooh, that looks nice.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: I used to love um when I was at uni, so I don't really have that much milk because I'm slightly lactose intolerant.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I used to love the oatly, the chocolate oatly.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's really good.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Really, really chocolate oatly, so chocolate oat milk.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: I could chug I can chug them.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: They're good.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: I could back that to be fair.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a massive oat milk fan, being the son of a a dad who owns a coffee van.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: Milky Boy.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: Milky Milk Boy Milkman Charlie Milk Boy, that's what they used to call me at school.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of mock fella, you're milky fella.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: Not mocha son.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: My dad owns a coffee van and uh been in breastering since I was what 14-ish.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: You ought to have good oat milk to make a nice oatmeal latte as well.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you get the wax stuff, it's just doesn't foam well.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't foam, yeah.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: But but we've kind of gone through the whole phase of like like when we started working, it was just standard coffee.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: It was an Americano, it was a latte.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: There wasn't even a flat white involved, and now it's like, oh my goodness, there's everything.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: And we go, hold up a second, that's way too much.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: And also stupid simple over here, guys.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's when you get into the artifati barista stuff, isn't it?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think you get the classic Brits that like when I because when I used to be a barista, you get people coming in and like, can I have a coffee with milk, please?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, okay, what what kind of coffee is that?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a flat white?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a latte?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a macchiato, or is it Americano with hot milk, Americano with cold milk?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to, and then they're just like, I just want a coffee, a coffee with milk.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Americano with milk, please.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: Would you like a long black set, slightly smaller Americano?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Just like coffee milk.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fuck off.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fuck it off.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh dear.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, well, well, Charlotte.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Charlotte.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Charlotte.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: The ski hoger's calling once again.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Charles, you've got a you've got a skidaddle, buddy.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, gotta get going.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then gotta have a rest day tomorrow.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: Monitor this hay fever.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: Sleep well.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like a baby.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: I will sleep well.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Good boy.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: Steve sleeps well.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's a Peter Booker, Peter Crouch podcast reference.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Alright.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you made it to the end, drop a follow, drop a like and comments of your favourite bit of this uh conversation.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, comment, and subscribe for more jargon.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, and see you in the next one.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Charlie.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: How how many times can I repeat myself on an hour podcast?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: How many times can I start going off under?