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Transcript

Coffee Break Chat with Stephanie Hansen · Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we have to start this conversation with,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: so you just got back from Italy and Croatia and the day you flew home,
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: went to the Emmys and won some Emmys.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to get there,
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: but I think we have to start with a list of everything that you do,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: because how Do you describe yourself?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you meet somebody for the first time and they have no idea
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: who Stephanie Hansen is and they say, what do you do?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I usually like pause for a second and think, okay, I try to answer in the context of the meet.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm at a book thing, I'll say like, I'm a cookbook writer.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm on a broadcast thing, I'll say I'm a broadcaster.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm a broadcaster and I have no training,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: but it's the thing I've done the longest.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on radio for over 25 years.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have a television show now, so that's newish to me, that medium, but also broadcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have podcasted for eight years, maybe even longer.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right when the medium started,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I jumped in because I had the radio side, so I wanted to be in that space.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: The cookbook and the food writing came later.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to have a television show about food and I already had a radio show.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing that kind of held me back was I felt a little bit like
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: an imposter sometimes because I didn't have a cookbook.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a professionally trained chef.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I really was just an eater.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: how is this eater going to be able to get to a place where she has any agency in
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: the platform she wants to be in?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like I needed a book to do that.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So during covid,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: OK, I was doing events at that time and a lot of the events had dried up.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So my husband said, well, you should, you know, write a book and let's do a proposal.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he helped me.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: My husband is a writer, a real writer, like a fiction writer.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he helped me write a proposal and the proposal got accepted.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so like I thought I was so cool because I was like, yes, I got a cookbook.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I like had no idea how to do it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to figure it out.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's challenging.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, photographing things, as you know, because you've learned a lot.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: You just I kind of jumped in and did it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm proud of the first book because it really is like homemade.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's my recipes, my family recipes, I photographed the whole thing.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really told a lot of story in the narrative.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote it and then my husband made the longer narratives better
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm really good at writing like 300 words or less.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: But he's really good at helping to make something cohesive.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was kind of how the first book went.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew nothing about marketing a book,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: but I knew a lot about marketing because Before all this broadcast life,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: actually concurrently,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I owned a printing and direct mail company and I have sold media time,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've sold newspaper ads, I've sold direct mail.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in the media space as a salesperson as long as I've been in
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: the media space on the other side of it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew a lot about like marketing and how to create your pitch and
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking the other day,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: like 25 years ago,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was legitimately the president of the Advertising Federation in our town.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels so far away that that was my life then because I've had so many seasons.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all do, I guess.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some have more seasons than others, right?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like some have had more past lives than others.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a through line and everything connects,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: but you essentially figured out a way to go from being Behind the scenes to being
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: in front of the camera.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that seems like a place that you feel extremely comfortable.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was probably a performer from the time I was little.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I did go to performing arts school for a few years.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I just knew that I wanted to be a performer.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also came from a family that had a lot of turmoil growing up
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: and I was very insecure about finances and money and whether I would be able
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: to afford college and whether I would be able to pay my bills.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I quickly saw that sales was kind of like acting,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: kind of like putting on a different personality,
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: but it had great reward if you were good at it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: People always said like,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: you could sell anything and you should have been a recruiter
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: because I love connecting and I remembered things about people.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I genuinely loved helping a small business figure out how to attract more customers.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got so jazzed by doing that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And in a sense it's performing, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're creating ideas,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: you're developing a strategy, and then you're selling that to the customer.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're doing in life with a recipe, with a television performance.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm talking on the radio about something and I'm trying to bring you into
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: the story and take you along with me,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: it came pretty natural once I made that switch.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm very much more comfortable as the years have gone on.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I still have imposter syndrome like everybody else,
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: but I think I'm settling in now kind of in the Middle Ages,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: just like, well, you know, this is it.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I'm doing.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't feel as anxious about if it doesn't work or if people don't like me.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like you're not for everyone and you just do what you do and hope
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: that you can bring fun people along.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's absolutely no way to shortcut that process, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have to just do it enough times and get enough mistakes in public under your belt.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then at some point you're like, okay, this is not that big of a deal.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Young people,
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: like I've mentored a lot of young people and I've hired a ton of people
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: and also fired a lot of people and helped them find maybe a better fit
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: or their next job that Maybe they were more inclined for.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt like when I hired someone and they didn't work out,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: it was sort of my fault because I didn't set them up for the success
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: that I thought they had the potential to have.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there were some people that I was just wrong,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: but there were others that just weren't there yet.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't arrived.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't the fit for them at the time.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I always tell people, they were like, okay, what's your biggest advice, your career advice?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is literally fake it till you make it because nobody knows what you don't know.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean pretend you're something you're not,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: but not everyone needs to know all the insecurities and how you're in the bathroom
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: before you have to go out to public speak, just like, you can do this.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's just part of being a good whole person and trying and risking new things.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have been faking it literally my entire life.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: It has been something that I've made work.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm proud of the work that I've done,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: but also my friend the other day, she's like, you make it look so easy.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I, but I saw people before me that made it look easy and I literally copied them.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, what are they doing?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: How are they doing it?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: How does this work?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have started to realize that we all have a tomato basil soup recipe.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: We all have,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: grandma's casserole and Betty's pies and whatever our recipes are
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: that feel super unique to us and maybe some more than others.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's as much about like the mechanism of delivery and the voice.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if I see one more thread about like,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: who's still buying cookbooks?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we buying cookbooks?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can get every recipe on the internet for free.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, you can, but you know what you can't get?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: You can't get the place,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: the presence,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: the story,
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: the way that that person talks to you about how to exactly do this and how
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: to tell exactly on the edges of looking at that pie if it's brown enough or
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: if you used enough butter or if it's rolled out the precise way.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: There is just like instruction in everything we do in life from assembling
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: an IKEA cabinet to making something.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there is flair that you bring to it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a sense of the environment with which you do it,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: the canister that it's held in,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: that I think is super important and that people are missing
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: if they're still wondering why anyone's buying cookbooks.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, cookbook sales are up like 25%.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's so interesting because I think that simultaneously,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: while yes,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: everything is available digitally and it feels like AI is slowly,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: not slowly, quickly taking over everything, right?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: In the middle of that,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we are craving actual real human connection and real handmade things
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: that we can hold in our hand in a tangible way.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is like something that keeps coming up.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Over and over and over and over again.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: like your work and what it is that you do when you're in front of a screen
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: and you are so fully in the moment and yourself,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think allows people, you do the same thing in your Substack.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: It allows people to feel like they're connecting with an actual human,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: even though You're not in the same room with them and there is still
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: a screen involved.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a human element that you bring to it that I just think we're desperate for.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's really all I have.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Again, everyone has an apple pie recipe, but what I try to do is I try to make it fun.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I try to make it funny.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I try to be poignant if that's what's required in that moment.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Life lands in your lap lots of different days where you started
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: the day thinking something and
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: then it just ends up being completely something else like we were just I was
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: recording an episode a couple weeks ago about fried chicken and I started making
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: the chicken and the smell of the chicken brought me to tears kind of like I smelled
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: the smell.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: That I used to smell when my mom made fried chicken standing in our kitchen
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: on 4674 Nine Oak Circle.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And she was burning her hands because it splatters.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I always thought my mom was so brave that she made chicken every Sunday
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: when she burned her hands all the time.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I did not even see this moment coming.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't feel emotional about it until the smell.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, this is the full catastrophe living, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is fully being in the moment.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And getting caught off guard by some smell, some memory, some scent.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really, I was so glad that we got to capture that.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: usually so when I've done these coffee break chats with other other food writers in
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: the past,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: one of the questions that I usually ask at
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: the end is how you feel like AI is changing the environment.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're we're already talking about that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we might as well just dive into that.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So like, what do you feel like how do you feel like it's changing your your Work and
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: and how you're approaching your work.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds to me like leaning in harder to that human element is one of the ways
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: that you're thinking about it.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I used to, well, a couple things.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: AI is taking money out of my pocket like everyone else.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really haven't been,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've been a food blogger for 10 years,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: but I really haven't been like monetizing or making it a business until probably
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: the last maybe five, six.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So just as I was starting to be like, wow,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I can actually make money in these ad networks by allowing them to serve up ads
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: on my site.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I got one month, I think I made like $4,000 and that felt like real money and I was so excited.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then AI came along.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that lasted like literally, I think I had to check that big once.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then AI came along and I started Googling myself.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I started Googling recipes and I was like, huh,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: wow, this is a recipe that is mine that I Googled Stephanie's Dish Fried Chicken.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there's six different recipes.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are links in here that aren't mine.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's pictures that aren't mine, but it looks like this is mine.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I realized, okay, I can try to prevent this.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can stop them from crawling my site, but I also realized I'm not going to win this war.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why Google is doing what they do because it seems
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: to me like they're safening off their own traffic,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: but they must know something more than I know about how they're doing it.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't a revenue generator, which it's really not going to be anymore or won't be for long.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Then what do you have to sell?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like all you really have is someone wanting to follow along in your journey,
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: in your path, in your life, seeing things the way that you see them.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I get so grossed out by that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, ugh,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: nobody cares about,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: what I'm thinking about, whatever it is I'm thinking about brands of catch up.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then I find myself like reading about someone else thinking about brands
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: of ketchup and I'm like, oh wait, which ones do they like?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do they like this mustard or that mustard?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or wait, are they making their own mayonnaise or is Hellman's okay?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so as soon as I think I have nothing to say and I'm just gonna be going down
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: the AI hole and end up,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: like Wally in a cart with a, like,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: feed me my pill for the day,
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: then I think, well,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: how did I just spend 20 minutes Absolutely in the rabbit hole of what Rebecca thinks
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: about sailing in Michigan and having sailed in Michigan,
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: like I connected to your journey.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So just when you think it's like so dumb and you just,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: there's like no winning,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: then I think I'm like,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: oh, well maybe I can do it this way or maybe I can do it that way.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real wild west though,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: because we're using AI and editing software for The most expensive thing that you do
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: if you're filming anything is the editing.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize this.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even value editing really until my editor was like,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: let me just show you what we do with this 22 hours of film that we have filmed
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: with you to get it down to 22 minutes.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I just have so much more appreciation now for how they tell the story and What
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: that editing is actually doing.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the most time consuming part of your show?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: By a mile.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would imagine.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like I get,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, you know, there's things that I do for the show that no one knows.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: We are three people.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do all the recipe writing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I do all the shopping.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I do all the prepping.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I get myself ready.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do nails.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have to like get Botox.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have to make sure I have eyebrows, like literally the weird basic stuff because you're on TV.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then I have to get to where I can perform the content.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to have some instructional ability to show you what we're doing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: You also have to kind of make it fun.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Then we always include an element of visiting with someone else.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an interview skill.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's making them comfortable.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's trying to keep it fun and light and understand where they're at and meeting them.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these folks,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Operation Metro Surge was no joke in January,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: February and March,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: and they were hauling People from our immigrant kitchens out of their car windows.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that whole environment and then going into someone's kitchen with
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: a camera was really something that we had to quickly think about,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: pivot, get smart about how we ask people to be a part of our show.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And all those different elements,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: like they all come down into that film and then,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, they have to edit it, but it takes a long time.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine how much time it takes to do all of that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like I have done very little.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I haven't done any video editing at all whatsoever.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've outsourced that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But but I like the amount of work that goes into creating something
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: that is is actually just a short amount of time.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you come up with all of the story ideas for your show?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually produce it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't realize I was doing that until like a year went by.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was, we were, I think, entering some award thing and it was the Emmys maybe.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wait, so producer, what does the producer do?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my executive producer,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: she was like,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: well, technically that's probably you because you decide what we're going to do.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: You book the guests, you create the themes.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, then I want producer credit.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cause you know, somewhere down the line, maybe that will count towards something.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I do have producer credit now, but I stumbled into that too.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is interesting about the editing piece.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you think about like, let's just talk about YouTube.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cause we were talking about AI.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So YouTube has totally shifted their dynamics too.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time that all this AI stuff has been happening.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: You used to need to get like 3000 watch hours
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: or no it was It was like 100,000 watch hours and 3000 subscribers in order
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: to start monetizing on YouTube.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they flipped the narrative on that so that you literally,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: unless you're like the top 10% of YouTube's audience,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: you're probably never going to monetize.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just could never get there.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on YouTube for almost two years, maybe three, and I'm barely halfway there.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, okay,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: why would I be spending all this time and energy on creating These cooking segments
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: that I did because they were fun and I still like think it's fun.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I have a whole television show over here.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not ever going to monetize this over there.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it makes more sense to just put that on your Substack and
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: to build your own algorithm.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I will say that I was smart about, but it was not because I was smart.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was because I was desperate.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted a radio show of my own.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted a television show.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted All these things.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked for broadcasters and I asked them for them.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And my original broadcaster that I do still work for just was like,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: no, you know, we don't see any way that we can monetize that.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: You want a television show about food?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, we already have this show.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like I just was starting to build all of my own stuff.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really, in hindsight, smart because I could move quickly.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to rely on anybody else's funding.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I got really scrappy.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just figured out- What do you mean you were building it?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you just started doing the show on YouTube before?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I started like my own little show.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I started my own podcast.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I already had a podcast on a radio station and a real radio show,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: but I started a separate podcast.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I figured out how to use tools You know,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: now there's Riverside is a great tool for podcasting in the day we were using Zoom.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then there were other tools.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I learned how to edit audio.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just kept learning how to do things on my own so that I didn't have
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: to spend as much money to do it.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I also started to control my own ecosystem.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is such an important point that I think that you're making,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: because one of the things that I feel like a lot of A lot of people get hung up
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: on is waiting for somebody to give them permission and give them the opportunity
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: when we do live at an age and we have for a while
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: when you can give yourself permission and just do it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very well, I don't know if it's unusual.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it is a little bit unusual for people to just go ahead and do it in
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: the way that you've done it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you had this idea of you wanted to Have a show about food and
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: and nobody would nobody would platform it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so you were like, well, I'm just going to I'm just going to do it myself.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just started.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I started doing it, then when I mean, I knew people in television.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So my friend was like, hey, I have a show.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to come on and do food segments?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, sure.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: He'd seen one.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So he knew like I could kind of do it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then during COVID, you know, nobody could go in a studio.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So they were like, oh, Stephanie's doing this at home.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like she can light it, she can figure it out.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I did.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: podcasting on my own,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: like when podcasts were just audio,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: you people had audio engineers and they would sit in studios and rent time
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: and space.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, no, I just got to figure this out.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I do think, though, that part of thinking you can is by seeing others do.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when I started this call and I was saying how much I admire what you're doing,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know, like I have not done a lot with Substack Lives.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just have, I liked them.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: We've done some and they've been really fun.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I watch other people doing stuff and that gives me courage to try.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And also,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that reminder that whatever it is that you want to do,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: because the same is true with if you want to publish a book and you can't get
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: a publisher to publish the book, you can still publish the book.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you want to write recipes and publish them online, you can start a website.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can start a sub stack.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's any number of ways to just do the thing that you want to do.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that I think is so valuable about this and tell me how this fits
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: into your arc in in your show is by just giving yourself permission
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: and doing it yourself.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: You learn the things that you like and don't like about it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And how to.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of things that I've done that I've after a while,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't actually like doing this.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do this anymore.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: But how how do you know that without just jumping in and and and doing it?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So within your show,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: the way it is now,
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: have there been things along the way that you've learned that you want
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: to lean harder into because that is like really where you shine and other areas
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: that you're like, no, I don't I don't want to do that anymore.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I am struggling with a couple of things.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: One is I do so many things and I You know, I'm starting to write a third cookbook.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: My husband and I have collaborated on some fiction writing where he's writing
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: the story narrative and I'm doing recipes.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like if you can think of like an Eat, Pray, Love, a fiction book with recipes.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really been fun.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we've enjoyed that.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're doing a couple more.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be like a series.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm struggling with is I'm doing everything all the time and I'm very bad at delegating.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I'm bad at delegating is because it would require me to stop and sit
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: and plan and map out and strategize.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I do that with someone,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: we get to the same place,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is like, well, you can hire all these people to do all these things.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't make a ton of money, even though I'm doing all these things.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have decided that money is not why I'm working.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am working because I want to do fun things with fun people.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be exuding that creative energy in the spaces that I can.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: But money is something that it has worth.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So necessary for our survival.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I could do all these hiring, but then it's like I wouldn't have control of it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I know I'm screwed up in that regard.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know I need to like spend time with someone and figure this out
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm just getting to the end of my bandwidth.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't have any more.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, like, I want to do so many more things.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do a magazine.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do a variety show.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really jazzed to do a variety show about food.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love this idea.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where like there's dancing fruit coming down the aisle and I maybe would work with
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: the songwriter to do original music and we could like have a mystery basket.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Someone in the audience could find something in their purse
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe we can cook something with it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just have this whole thing.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: in order to do that, yeah,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have to like give up something or get more help and And,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know, my team is working as hard as I am.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's no it's just we live in a world where everybody has to work super hard
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to get the things you want.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And as you were talking about earlier, you have to you have to wear a lot of different hats.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a team that you don't have a team of 20.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: You are the team of 20 and you're doing all of the things.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm super like, I don't know what I don't know.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I've never done any of this stuff before and I've done it all alone.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when I found out that another friend of mine who had a TV show,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: that it was 22 people that were working on her show,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: that was the same length of time as mine, that, I mean,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: we did different things,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: but kind of same, you know, food shows are kind of food shows.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wait a second, what did those 22 people do?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I read something recently where she talked about the show.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, she talked about the person that made the food on the show.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wait, wait, someone made the food for this person?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know they're her recipes, because I know her.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, that is so cool.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because like,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: literally,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes I have to get up at 4am to make a roast,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: because I need to have one roast done by the time they get here at 8am.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just like, and you should see my refrigerator.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a disaster.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: In my freezer, I hoard food because I'm afraid to give anything.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I give it all away.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I make, I give away.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, oh, I'm going to need more chicken broth at some point.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or like pork juices, I'll just keep those for something else.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm cooking all the time.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like one week in three days, I did 14 unique recipes.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wrote them,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: shopped for them,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: cut them,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: prepped them,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: performed them,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: cleaned up after them,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: and then ran around the neighborhood giving away all the food.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I understand.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: We had this one time years ago when the kids were at home.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was working on a new cake recipe and I was like just determined to get it right in one day.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so the our oldest daughter walked in with a couple of her friends after school
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: and there was like 16 layers of cake just all over the and the friends were like,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: what kind of a house is this?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Grab a fork.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: During that stretch, I had some people that were, I'm building an outdoor kitchen.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I had some people that were laying the rock and doing all the hard work.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And there were six of them.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And every day I'd come out there.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, today.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they were just like, what?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was filming so they could see all the lights in the kitchen.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And occasionally we had to tell them to stop pounding.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then I was like, but I'm going to bring you food in about an hour.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would come out with like all these to-go containers full of food.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then they started telling me what they were eating for their lunch.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I was like, you know, where did you pick up your lunch?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: What are you eating?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it was like, someone was like, so pay.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I've made so pay.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, you made so pay.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yes, I've made so pay.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really, that was a fun week of a lot of cooking and a lot going on at the house.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Also, all the food went in and out the door and everyone was happy.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I now have an outdoor kitchen that I'll have to finish up in the spring
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: because it's getting cold out and almost winter here.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to invite myself over to your house for your to your outfit.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want to come like that is one thing that
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've always had a flexible like
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: since we we sold our business in 2015, the printing and direct mail company.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, we can really do our work from anywhere.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we had the RV, then we would travel around and we'd go sailing.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: We don't own a boat, but we rent a boat.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: We have a cabin.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: But with the TV show,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: that's put a kind of crimp in that because we're filming 40 episodes a year,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: so I don't have as much flexibility about not being tethered to the home.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I miss that.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I miss being in my camper and some of that stuff.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I look forward to the next couple of years,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: it's like maybe getting some help so that I can spend more time doing some
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: of those things.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the time I am actually having to be on camera,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: it's not having to do all the shopping and all the other stuff.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also, we talk about AI changing, media changing.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in TV is changing.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in the newspaper business has changed.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: The radio business is changing.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in all these very super fast paced changing businesses.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what's changing is, is the old revenue models aren't working anymore.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: am I supposed to feel like so-and-so sports guy just signed an $82 million contract
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: to broadcast, you know, Sunday football games.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm over here, you know, buying my own food for my own show.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: As much as I want to feel sorry for you media executives that the world is changing
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: for you, you had the gravy train for a long time.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody deserves to get paid.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize it,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: but my daughter Anne is on this live and she was the daughter that walked in with
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: the 16 cakes and she says, that was awesome.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I bet.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is she the daughter that's learning the food photography?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So she's doing such a great job.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that has been I mean,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: like talk about having,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: wearing 16 different hats and and and so my my youngest daughter is a pastry chef
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: and she has an interest in video and photography.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I handed my I handed the photography over to her and she's doing all of it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I mean, photography is one of the biggest time sucks and I enjoy it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: But You know, there's only so many hours in a day.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're creating and publishing new recipes in a variety
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: of different places,
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: being able to offload the photography has been just enormous, enormous.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, too, my husband calls himself a dabbler.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably a dabbler, too.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I never get to the point of complete mastery in anything because there's just so much.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I do good enough work in a lot of these areas.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: But also, like,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: the creativity of that just,
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I didn't think I was a creative person, but I think I really am.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: You absolutely are.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm getting more so as I age.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like sometimes it's just bursting out of me.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: You just shared a whole bunch of new ideas that you haven't even,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, you are overflowing with creative ideas.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, wait, I think I need to learn how to throw pots.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want to make my own pottery for the show.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make my own dishware.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you do.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: I said to Kurt, didn't you do that in college?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you know how to be a potter?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, well, yeah, I took some courses.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: He goes,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: but Stephanie,
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to need to be doing this for months before you get good enough.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, really?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to take months?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, no, I'll be good enough by next week.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just do six classes and make a plate.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: How hard can it be?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we have to list a bunch of things.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so first of all, your first cookbook is the True North Cookbook.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, True North Cabin Cookbook, Volume 1.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Volume 1.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Published by Minnesota Historical Society, which has been great.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they also published, that you worked with them to publish the second cookbook as well?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, True North Cabin Cookbook, Volume 2.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they're by month, so it's a 12-month Compendium of Midwest recipes.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have them both.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're both incredible.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of story in them.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have any interest in Ely,
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Minnesota,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Minnesota,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: or just the Midwest and that feeling of how we cook here, they're for you.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: The second book series that we started,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to talk about, I have a publisher, I have an editor.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, hey, I've got this new idea.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this new book.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, hmm, that one's not for us.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, really?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, no, it's not a cookbook.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not a fiction book.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hybrid.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know what to do with that.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So good luck with that.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then I was like, OK, well, should we just do this ourselves?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: What used to be the old paradigm of cookbook publishing?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then you had a cookbook tour.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you had a PR person that booked bookstore appearances.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: All of that went by the wayside during COVID.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing most of that marketing work anyway.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, if we self publish, we're going to get $3 more per book at the minimum.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm already doing like all this PR work.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think I can just do this.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we did.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: we sold,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I sold less books than I would of the cookbooks, but also fiction burns longer.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because it just takes a while for people and then they'll buy a book,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: but it takes them a while to read it.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the books have really good reviews in terms of people liked them when they read it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like it's good.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we enjoy it as a couple.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's been something we can work on together.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just read the second novel, the second book that my husband wrote.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: What happens is, is he writes it, he rewrites it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: He sends it to an editor and while he sends it to the editor,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm reading it and I'm reading it for editing, but mostly for voice, plot.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm reading like a lot of times he's writing in a woman's voice
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: and he doesn't always think in a woman's voice.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he'll write a word and I'm like, hmm, this is not a word a woman would say.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so sort of going back through that.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times in his books,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've noticed that he has a hard time in the first couple of chapters.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And those are really pivotal because that's when people decide if they're going
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: to stay with
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: them.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like by the second and the third parts of the book, he's really cooking with gas.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the first book, he got kind of mad because I made him like redo the whole beginning.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it was so much better when he redid it.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you like really got into the story right away.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I've read, I've read it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking about Moon Tavern and Claudia Byers,
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: who's on this call said,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: she says in the comments, Stephanie, I loved your book Moon Tavern.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't have Moon Tavern, if you haven't read it, go get it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just saw that you guys are getting ready to publish the second book.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: You had mentioned that you thought you might turn this into a series,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: but Moon Tavern has not been out for very long and you guys are already talking
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: about the next book.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that is amazing to me how quickly you guys are getting these done.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my goal or Kurt's goal is to, and he works on this, like this is mostly what he does.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's a writer.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: He thinks like we can get a book every year.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's about right.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: It takes, you know, the media and the marketing of the book, the planning.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's about three to three months.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have like a six month to a year window with the book in terms of
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: the marketing pretty much.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's about right.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to release in the spring.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I just read this latest version.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's got some work to do again in the beginning,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: but we both like felt it and knew it and kind of tweaked where that will all happen.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then part two and three is Great.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's almost like completely done other than just editing and typos and that kind
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: of thing.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he feels good about that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if he can do those in the spring and I can follow up with a cookbook in
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: the fall,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: what we have found is when we go out to events and we have a table full of books,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: people get really jazzed about it and they'll buy like two to four.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some just economies of scale of bringing all of our titles out.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean like when you get hooked into a series, you want them all, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want this to be just like the White Lotus where someone buys the television rights
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: and then it's a different heroine,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: it's a different location,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: but that there's the story and the food that flows throughout and
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: that each season would be like a new chapter, a new person.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have asked about a sequel for Moon Tavern.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe down the road.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I felt like we kind of left that story pretty complete.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was as much about the woman's self-discovery of her own worth and her own value
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: as much as it was about the love story part.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: The next book has a lot.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's multiple love stories that are happening, so it's more than just one.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's fun.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Kurt and I have worked together for a super long time and not always successfully.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: We almost got divorced twice.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, working together with your spouse is really challenging.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we were together and we were just talking about the books the other day
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: and he said, I really think this is fun.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was working with you before wasn't fun because I was sort of the no to his yes.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: He was the dreamer.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was the one like, are we going to buy this equipment?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Are we going to start this new product line?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I always said no.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just because I was like, financially it does not work.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: With this product,
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's always a yes because it's a creative endeavor
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: and not everyone's gonna love everything that he writes,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: but I think he's a great writer and he's enjoying it and we have fun together.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've been traveling a lot, so we make notes when we're traveling.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: We were just in Capri in Italy.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: you about how
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Your travels directly influence the content of the book
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: because Moon Tavern took place in, I'm blanking out on the name.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Croatia in La Stovo.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: La Stovo, yeah.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which you wrote about it because you'd been there, right?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're writing,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: you're placing these characters into some of your favorite places
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: that you've very well traveled.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, maybe I didn't really go anywhere until I was 20.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: between 20 and 40, I,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: did some all inclusive things and I would do some stuff,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I got cancer pretty young.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was a breast cancer stage three when I was 42.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: And after recovering from that, I just,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: my mom always was like,
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: and my mom had died the year before I was diagnosed of breast cancer too.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And my mom was always waiting to win the lottery.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like she would talk about it endlessly.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, when I win the lottery, I'm going to do this, that, and the other thing.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I got so clear when I got diagnosed.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to win the lottery.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: And time is an infinite.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to travel,
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to write a book,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to do these things, this is only one life that you got.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way to just do it.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so we just, and you know, by then I had done more things, but I got a lot more risk risky.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: I took more chances.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just did more things.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And now, sometimes I'm like, well, maybe I'll just stay home for a weekend.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the world is in such a chaotic place right now and it feels very heavy
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: and very serious and dire and everything's on the line all the time.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when I travel and I meet people that have this idea of,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: if you're in Europe,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: what America is or what's happening in America,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: or if I go up to Northern Minnesota and like,
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: well, what's happening in the Twin Cities?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: What I have just come to understand is that we all want the same things.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: We want health, we want happiness, and we want money to fuel our lives.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And healthcare is nice.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Once you get past that, it's all just style and substance.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you travel and you see people from all different walks of life
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: that don't look like you,
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: that don't talk like you,
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: but we all come together over something like a bowl of soup or food or at
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: a farmer's market,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: you really can start to see that all of this division is just about fear.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's about stress, anxiety.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: The fear mongering that goes on is just intense.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, social media, I think, has hyped that up.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: People always blame the media.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a certain amount of like the media cycle because things are moving so fast.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're watching the news,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know, they're giving you the top 10 things that are just in your face right now.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really have time for any of the good news stories anymore.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: But that travel aspect really brings you back to people are good.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: People try, you know, they're not always successful and there's bad people everywhere.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: But generally,
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: even like being in an RV park was such a,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: you'd be in an RV park and you'd see the car next to you would have all kinds
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: of flags and stickers and things that I'm just like,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: oh, that person is not for me because of the flags and the stickers and all that.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then like, they'll have their hood up.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband will wander over and like,
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know, hey, do you want any
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And an hour or two later, they're fixing some fan belt.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're inviting each other over for chili or a beer.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: we're wearing different,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know, stickers on our cars and we're sporting different flags.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, you just don't know anyone's stories.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know where they came from.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know what got them to where they are.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Did something happen that maybe made them feel differently about a subject than you do.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: But when you get all that Just cleared out and you just sit and break bread
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: with someone, it changes the way that you feel about society.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: It changes the way you feel about yourself.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you more willing to risk personally, professionally.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've had to think a lot about that as the TV personality star has risen.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been super open about the way I care about people,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: about The way I feel about where I live,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Minneapolis has really been through it.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: And people think that it's just the hell hole.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is full of amazing people.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we've had our share.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we are in a time that has not been great, to be honest.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's been kind of challenging.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we're going to come out of it, you know, people are good.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: People are trying.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: People are really spending time in their communities, spending time with their neighbors.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's, I mean, we've Traveled through every state in the United States.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what we found is that when you actually I think if you if
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: the only exposure that you have to the outside world is what's happening
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: on your screen,
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: then it is always going to be messed up and distorted and not accurate.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you were saying,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: you you might have this lovely conversation with the neighbors in the campsite next
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: to you that Otherwise,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: your only exposure would have been,
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: people yelling at each other online and gives you this feeling of animosity
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: that I don't think actually exists in the real world
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: when you're actually out there interacting with people and talking to people.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for my own
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just health and wellbeing and my own mental space.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't have that, I would be really depressed all of the time.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because some of the news is depressing and,
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: every day isn't,
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: some days I wear a robe and then at eight o'clock at night,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still wearing my robe.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen often, but I have two speeds, and they're either on or horizontal.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: That does not surprise me about you at all.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, and Kurt will be like,
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: he'll bring me coffee at like 830 and I'm laying in bed,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: and he'll be like, is today a horizontal day?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's just checking in with you.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because Stanley, my dog, he can stay in bed with me the entire day and not move.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's great.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: OK, I want to talk about I want to switch gears completely and I want to talk
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: about your show because you just won a bunch of Emmys.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so you've gone from just deciding that you're going to do it and moving forward
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: to a how many this is a nationally syndicated show.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it started.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: We started I started doing guest appearances on our local TV station
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: with my friend Jason Matheson, and it was his show.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I would make stuff like I would do a 10 minute segment making something.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then after a while, people liked it.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, do you want to do more of like a food show?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, yeah, I've already thought about this.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how it would look.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how it would be here.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can watch these on YouTube.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: This would be like what it looks like for the cooking part.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, OK, so let's do a couple pilots.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we did.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they would air those as special episodes on the Jason show when he was traveling
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: or they needed fill in.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then Fox was like, okay, let's do, I think the first year we did 18 episodes.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that was great.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of like a two thirds time job at that point.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, this is good.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next year we did 22,
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: which felt like a little bit more, but I was like, I can still do this.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: For each episode, there's really three components.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's Out and about.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we go,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: we learn something,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: we experience something, we share something, we spend time with a chef, a maker.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second component is some kind of transition.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: So whether we're at a grocery store or whether we're in the car,
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: like it can just be some transition piece.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: It might even be just standing outside of a restaurant.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third piece is in my real kitchen,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: in my real house, Where we make something that was inspired by the episode.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I right now I'm trying to think of something to cook that's Japanese.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because I really love exploring diverse cultures.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love exploring diverse food.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun for me.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: But we've also done like,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know, we've been to the Swedish Institute and we've done a deep dive on apples.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't always have to be a cultural touchstone.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when I first started,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: you guys,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I can find a Japanese chef to go talk to and that's awesome and we can cook
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: with them.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then I'm supposed to like cook Japanese like there's no way I can do that.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, well, no, you can cook whatever you want.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: So then I was like, okay, well,
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: am I inspired by something maybe that was Japanese or did the person that I cooked
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: with remind me of something that so sometimes it's real linear like we cook Japanese
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm going to make something Japanese.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Other times it's more esoteric because of the time I spent with the person.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a real formula.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just try to make something that's delicious, not too hard, and that you can make at home.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's driven by your own personal interests and expertise and creativity.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I program all the guests.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: I write all the recipes.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I screw up.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have an episode coming up where I think we called it Crazy Bakes.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we went and met with this most incredible entrepreneur who started a business
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: of brioche donuts and then they put ice cream inside them.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's called What Up Doe.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's amazing.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: And his story,
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: like he can He can tell you about coming here from Chicago with his mom in
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: a station wagon and them sleeping in a park parking lot and him seeing the skyline
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: in Minneapolis and him having a muralist paint that same skyline in his shop
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: because he wanted to remember where he came from and where he first thought
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: about like what he could be as a young man.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just by the time we left there, I was like hugging the guy.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, from there, I'm not going to be making beignet donuts at home.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: So then we went to another group and we,
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: she's baking at farmer's markets and she is making homemade pop tarts
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: and they were really cool and they tasted really good.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, maybe like I watched her do it.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, with puff pastry, I bet I could do this at home.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I stupidly never made them.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have time to like practice a lot of this stuff.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And my team is like, don't practice.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just do it just like normal on the air because people can do it with you.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I, of course, made the Pop-Tarts and they end up looking more like toaster pastry strudel.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: They do not look like Pop-Tarts, but they tasted good.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: it just is an evolution based on what we experience and Tomorrow I'm filming
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: a holiday episode and my original idea was like hostess gift things.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what you would take if you went to like a cocktail party and to bring to the hostess.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I've sort of ended up making homemade crackers,
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: potted goat cheese that's like marinated that you can give or gift.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making herb salts because I'm to the end of my herbs and I hate to waste them.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I always blend them up with salt and then package that up for people.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're going to do a cocktail.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make the drink syrup and then we're going to do some floral thing.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: So a little bit different, you know, than the standard recipes.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that sounds amazing.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love to like think I'm like Martha Stewart.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like the hacky Martha Stewart, but, you know, it gets the job done and it's fun.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so inspired by, like, Ina Garten too.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just, but she, you know, she makes every recipe 40 times.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know that.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredible the amount of recipe testing that she does.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, obviously she has a staff and people help, but.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what,
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am fascinated by Martha Stewart,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: but I wouldn't want to come to her house for dinner,
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: but I would want to come to your house for dinner.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's kind of reinvented herself, though, in a way that I admire.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought her recipes were great.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Her original book I liked, but then it clearly became like, a lot of the recipes didn't work.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just, they didn't work.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they didn't come out like you thought they should or like they looked in the pictures.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I do admire the fact, you know, she's reinvented herself since getting out of prison.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: And That is just like that alone to be a lady of later age
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: that has reinvented herself,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: that has found herself in the zeitgeist again and in a relevant space.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that's that's admirable.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, wow, she reinvented herself.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Did you watch the documentary on her?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I found it very inspiring.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, incredibly inspiring.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you look at people and you're like,
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: oh my God, like they just do everything and it's so easy for them.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes get caught up in that with Substack in particular.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are people that Substack embraced very early on and helped them
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: and they are now Substack bestsellers and they're doing all these cool things.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard to get to that level on your own with just your boots and your feet on
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: the ground.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing, I think a good job and I'm trying to figure out And this leads me to your workshop.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you know what people want from you on Substack?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: I used to think they wanted recipes.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm discovering probably they don't
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: because they think they can get them anywhere, everywhere.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is a challenge.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's like, okay,
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that those would be the things that if I put them behind the paywall
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: that you'd want.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't even think that's it.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are just doing paywall things to support creators.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if the whole, like,
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: if I pay you, this is what I get, that exchange really is even working anymore.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's that linear.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like,
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: we could do an entire hour talking just about the idea of a subscription model and
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: whether or not that works and whether it's sustainable and whether we can expect Um,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: people to continue to,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, I don't want to, uh, use all of my money for subscriptions, right?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a limited number of, of, um, things that I'm willing to subscribe to.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: And, and so, yeah, that, that is a, we'll, we'll table that for a mastermind meeting.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I do have some ideas about it and I've been thinking a lot about it.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for those of you who are Substack food writers and you're watching this,
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mastermind for food writers, go over there and subscribe if you haven't already.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we do have a monthly mastermind group, and these are the kinds of things that we talk about.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a paid subscriber, there's also a business strategy meeting.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And in the business strategy meeting, we get down into the weeds of our businesses.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a private chat where we actually talk about This is what I'm struggling with.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm having a hard time with.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some incredibly engaged people in that group
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: that offer like real tangible advice and feedback.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're very honest about where we are and what we're having a hard time with.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: And whatever.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: So so those resources are available to you.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to close this out without first let's let's.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: OK, so let's let's start with Kurt.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: So your husband, Kurt, is an author and he's written five or six books,
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: probably seven,
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: seven.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: OK. And Kurt Johnson, he is on Substack.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: His Substack is amazing.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: So go find him and subscribe and buy his books.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: His books are really good.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have co-written one and coming out with a second book with Kurt
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: and Moon Tavern is the one that's out.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you can just Google Moon Tavern and find it,
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: but you can go to Stephanie's Substack or her website,
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: stephaniehansen.com and you can find it there.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a good- stephaniesdish.com.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: stephaniesdish.com.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Your Substack is Stephanie Hansen.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Stephanie Hansen, .substack.com, so subscribe to Stephanie's Newsletter.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you've got your Emmy Award waiting show that just won three Emmys.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: What were the three Emmys?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: They were for an artisan cheese episode that we filmed with Redhead Creamery,
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: which people making their own cheese, artisan cheese, is so hard.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, milking
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: is hard and then taking the milk and making the whey and
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: then like just making cheese is so hard.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that one also Alpha Omega Pizza Farm.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then probably the one I'm most proud of because it's so unhinged
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: and weird is this episode that we did at the ballparks.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: We filmed at the Minnesota Twins ballpark
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: at the St. Paul Saints ballpark.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I wore a hot dog costume the entire time.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: That like I could get my arms barely out of it.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: But like the whole thing, I'm wearing this hot dog costume and my daughter is in it with me.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter is,
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: she likes hot dogs and she's funny and she cooks things completely different
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: than I cook.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I need to do something with hot dogs.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: What should I do?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to come do it with me?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, yeah.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: So she sent me this picture of this little octopus hot dog.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: That you air fried and the tentacles curl up.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so they look like little octopus and they're so funny.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought this is perfect, like for kids.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: So then we put little mustard hats on them.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's the most unhinged episode, but it's hilarious.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we went for that one too.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have to go find that one.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find these, most of these episodes are all of these episodes on YouTube.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're all on YouTube.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we air in 105 markets across the United States.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in 75% of the United States.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: So chances are it could be in your town.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you Google.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: TasteBuds is also on YouTube, all the episodes.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a bunch of shorts and of other things they put on there.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then Tubi, it's also on.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then Fox, the company that I work for, bought Roku.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a feeling there'll be some fast channels dedicated to food that it'll be coming there.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you can watch them every week.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Someone told me that they didn't have it in their market,
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: and so they called and asked for it,
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: and their station was airing it in some other markets,
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: and so they got to pick it up.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think people have more sway if you call and ask for something than you think.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so crazy to think that we have viewers from all over the United States,
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: but I think National Geographic voted Minneapolis one of the top 15 cities to eat
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: in.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: So our food scene is really just getting recognized.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel very honored to be able to be on the front end of that.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Everybody Feeds Phil is just,
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: he just came to town and he filmed with a bunch of the restaurateurs that I filmed
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: with that are my friends.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was cool.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Gordon Ramsay also has been to town in the last three months filming for his show.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: So people are finding, you know, the Twin Cities, which is cool.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so your show, subscribe to your Substack.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have two True North cookbooks.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the best way to keep up with everything that Stephanie does is
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: to subscribe to her newsletter.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: I really love your Sundays with Stephanie, which is for big subscribers.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: You get a lot of all sorts of interesting things in that.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's a smorgasbord of all sorts of interesting tidbits,
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: but you are doing so many things and you have so many balls in the air and
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: so many projects that the newsletter I think is a good way to kind of keep up
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: with all of it.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's how I feel about you too.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know,
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: because there's the whole traveling is like one whole aspect of your life,
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: which is And then all the work pieces.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then also at the same time, you know, I'm a mom.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a wife.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have a dog named Stanley.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have a cabin in northern Minnesota.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a very big gardener.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm building this outdoor kitchen that is hilarious that I've never done that before.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: So just trying to figure out like how to like what do you need
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: and also like how do you how can you film on it
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: and Just I'm doing all these just like crazy things.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about tangible,
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: like I wrote a goat cheese book, a ghost written goat cheese book a long time ago.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know this.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm thinking about relaunching it.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody at the time, nobody liked goat cheese, but turns out everybody likes goat cheese.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's amazing.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just obsessed with it.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I like have this whole other book that's already written.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: All I have to do is like put a different cover on it.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can do that.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to learn to embroider tea towels.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, these would be really cute on the show.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking about taking a pottery class to make my own dish.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, who knows what's coming next?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll found my own mason jar.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm obsessed with jars.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just, why don't you just make them from scratch, Stephanie?
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know, like just
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: blow, blow.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever seen someone blow glass?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can take glassblowing classes in places.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're so fun.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've done them.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows what's coming?
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Also, like,
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: can you believe the holidays are literally like,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: this is like food, you know, fourth quarter for food writers.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, I don't know, like, what's next?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like Thanksgiving, we're already going to be like talking about the turkey.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the thing about the holidays that I want to say is that Stephanie
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: and I are both part of a thing called the Cookstack Collective.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's if you're a paid subscriber to any of our newsletters,
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: not all of them,
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: just one of them,
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: just you just have to be a paid subscriber to one of us 12 Food writers and chefs.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Then you get access to 12 months of cooking classes.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Each of us are teaching one.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: And Stephanie's class is in December.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you're bringing up the holidays.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you have a delightful lineup for your holiday class coming up.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think of what I'm doing.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Did I say that I was going to make?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making an appetizer.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're just going to have to become a paid subscriber so that you can join us
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: because obviously it's going to be the most fun thing you do all month.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I guarantee you there'll be a cocktail and a mocktail
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm getting real good at those.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're feeling,
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have a family green drink that is not for the faint of heart, but it is delicious.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is there absinthe in it?
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is that why it's green?
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's worse than that.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was a little kid,
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize this till much later,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: but, you know, Christmas morning was always very challenging.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: We had a lot of kids.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: My mom, that was a high holiday for her.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was the big deal.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: But they were always completely hung over,
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: it turned out, from the night before because of the green drink.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: they're lethal.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, very lethal.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Stephanie, thank you so much.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a blast.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for everything that you do.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you make me have a lot of joy in Substack world.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: being a creator alone in your home is kind of sad sometimes
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: because you're just like alone.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love working with other people.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've always had teams and managed tons of folks.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: And soSubstack has been super fun.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: The TV show has been fun to at least have like some people I can interact with on
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: a weekly basis besides Curt and the dog.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, I totally understand.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like,
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: honestly,
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: some of the most talented and hardworking people that I've ever known
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: in my entire life are other food writers here.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was a blast.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you everyone for joining us.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks everyone who watched.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.