Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 119. Buyers Have More Data Than Ever. Now What?
Transcript
- Dave Warburton: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things a state agency. My name is Dave Warburton. I am joined as ever by my industry colleagues, Mr. JK and Ian Story. And also today, after an amazing podcast last week, Michelle is with us as well. So it's all four of us today, which is ⁓ quite rare actually, isn't it, guys? but I'm sure it's gonna be a valuable, valuable value add, value add. Yeah. JK: I'm sure the ratings are gonna plummet. Now you two idiots are back on here. Dave Warburton: Especially after this intro. ⁓ but yes, I'm sure it's gonna be a really valuable episode. Last week's was really good, guys. I I caught up on it a couple of days ago. ⁓ so ⁓ yeah, lots of value there as well. So thanks, Michelle, for bringing ⁓ some order to the podcast and being unpacked several times by J. ⁓ Right, as always, let's start with the usual tradition. How's your week been? Let's go to you, Michelle. JK: Ha ha ha. Michelle: My week's been good, varied. ⁓ We have been working on our social media presence at TCA. So I have done lots of planning and preparing ⁓ social posts. So that's been good. And I've done a few follow-ups with my coaching clients, just keeping them accountable for the things that they're working on. So it's been a varied week. Dave Warburton: Good God and you Ian story. Ian Storey: Good week. Yeah. Good week. Make no fallers. ⁓ a few nice listings we've had. Dave Warburton: What was that? What was that? Sorry, sorry, I have to what was that? Ian Storey: No fallers. Michelle: You are high, high, high, high, high, Dave Warburton: Good it was good a good week. Ian Storey: Wie finished? Dave Warburton: He went very high he went very high pitched. Very high pitch. JK: Yeah, thanks thanks for coming, Dave. We really missed you last week. Ian Storey: You might Dave Warburton: ⁓ dear. Go on. Start again. Start again Ian. Ian Storey: You all you all done there? Thanks. So we've had a couple of, I think probably four, five, five, six good listings, a couple of million pounders. Nice one at nine, nice one at seven, nice one at six, nice one at five. So some really nice listings ⁓ from me and Matt. ⁓ a few nice sales agreed as well. Phil agreed a cracker yesterday, just under 1.5. That's been sticky for ages because it's on a really busy road. But he's done really well. I think they started their offer below 1.4 and it's agreed at just under 1.5. So he's got them up 100 grand. And then a couple of other smaller, cheaper sales, but still nice golder stuff. We had our new ⁓ valuer, Vicky, start yesterday. So she came out with me on a couple of appointments. I think she's gonna work out ⁓ really well. So all good. Also, our mortgage, we've started a mortgage brokerage. ⁓ Which is going well. We're getting some good leads over. So we're just sort of putting all that in place now with the branding. And we're we're gonna launch that fully on social media in the next probably the next couple weeks, I think. ⁓ so really, all good from me as it stands. ⁓ our issue currently is the time it's taking to get stuff exchanged and completed. You know, the pipeline is great. We must have one of the best pipelines in the industry. But the time, my God, to get stuff exchanged. This this first JK: Mm-hmm. Ian Storey: Five months has been really, really slow, you know, and definitely lower on cash than I would have liked. Things would have taken so long to get through. But you know, that's I think an industry-wide problem ⁓ that we're all that we're all up against. ⁓ I'm not really sure what can be done about it, but but overall, I think the headline is that we're we're in a good place. We're about to launch our nutsford office as well. ⁓ so we're moving into a new area, which is exciting, really nice high value area locally that we've not done much in. We've got we've got a little office there and we're gonna push into that new area soon as well. So, yeah, all good, mate. All good. How about you, JK? JK: ⁓ yeah, okay. We've ⁓ offered a role to our new home stylist as well. And we've got the ⁓ weekend role sorted as well. So we've ⁓ got two positions filled now moving forward, which is really good. the sales sales wise in the last week we've done sort of three deals, ⁓ which is which is okay. I'm happy with that. ⁓ good good end to ⁓ May. I mean, we didn't actually sell a huge amount in May in the end. ⁓ I think we just about ended up on ⁓ double digits. ⁓ but I mean it was it was six figures into the pipeline. ⁓ just simply because of the obviously level of sort of fees that you're dealing with, it all slots into the pipeline nicely. So ⁓ yeah, I think we ended up on I just looking actually now while I was talking shit, hence while I was stuttering, ⁓ eleven deals in the end, but you know, average fee like well into five figures. ⁓ so Yeah, yeah, it actually looks really, really healthy on paper. Eleven deals wouldn't have been great ⁓ seven or eight years ago. But no, pr pretty happy with that. ⁓ take ons has been pretty good. ⁓ we've not really put anything on at the upper upper end recently. We haven't had a that many vowels, ⁓ disappointingly really yet. sort of one point five plus. ⁓ but we've got ⁓ one ⁓ just signed up at nine fifty, another one ⁓ eight fifty, one at six fifty, one at seven fifty, one at six. ⁓ so all decent fees, upfront fees as well. and some really good stock actually. ⁓ one of them is well, two of them actually. One's on the best road in one of the best villages, another one's on one of the best roads in Bedford at nine fifty. We sold next door. ⁓ maybe we can unpack it a little bit today in ⁓ today's podcast. I know you ⁓ like a bit of unpacking, Dave. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, they ⁓ they saw us doing the take on for next door. And they obviously ultimately saw this we'd sold it and had had a chat with our client as well. ⁓ but it would just I was just gonna go into without diving too deep into the detail just now, that when we did the ⁓ sort of listing, they saw the van turn up with the home styling team, they saw the photographer, they saw me filming out the front, they saw the drone go up, they saw stuff coming in out of the house of the van. Then also they'd noted they'd seen people for viewings and stuff as well. They saw the they'd seen a brochure for next door. Like, ⁓ she she said yesterday when we were talking, I was talking to the couple and they were like, you just seem to do so much. ⁓ they were on the market eight years ago, ⁓ and all they got was ⁓ pro photos. So somebody was in and out in thirty minutes, and ⁓ a right move listing. And then just to see the full works that went on. ⁓ they were really impressed. ⁓ and it's say it's a great house to have. The ⁓ slight annoyance is that we're gonna have to bend slightly on fee and come down from two. ⁓ but it's not a bad place to be when you can sort of shake hands at maybe one point seven five, one point eight plus fat, to get a house at roughly a million quid on one of the best roads in the town that you know is gonna sell. You know, at the end of the day, I'm we're not talking about doing not point seven percent or not point eight percent. You know, we're still gonna get upfront fees, still gonna get an amazing fee out of it. ⁓ but you just you sent you it's you set your benchmark at a certain level. and I'm already double what the average fee is locally anyway, if not more in some cases. So, but yeah, I mean, overall, great, ⁓ great week. You know, it's not been I think just to to be real, we haven't been rushed off our feet busy busy as a business, ⁓ with inquiries and and sales. I think the the half term in the last week ⁓ slowed things down for us with the really hot weather. ⁓ and speaking to a few agents across the country, ⁓ people have have found similar. ⁓ but again, you put one of those listings on, ⁓ those sort of generational listings at the right price, the phone soon starts to ring. But yeah. Overall, ⁓ pretty pleased with how things are going. ⁓ and David, I know you've been waiting there with bated breath. Dave Warburton: I have indeed, thank you, JK. ⁓ yes, so far so good. It's been a good year. ⁓ and last last month was really good. ⁓ really good. ⁓ you'll be pleased to know, JK, we're only negotiating four offers this week. Four offers. Yeah, so so JK: Brilliant. Thanks, Dave. Right, we're gonna talk No, right, okay, you switched it up. Since I called you out the other week, there's seven offers. Th the people are still waiting there by the phone waiting to be called back. ⁓ Dave Robertson guys, not calling me back. Dave Warburton: ⁓ so yeah, four offers we're negotiating. And to be quite honest with you, all four of them are challenging. They're no not near where we need them to be. So nothing agreed on those, but we did agree three sales last week as well. ⁓ Goldust stuff, we agreed one at 515, ⁓ another at 750,000, and another one at ⁓ eight hundred thousand. So, you know, a good week on a good week last week on sales. And we've got seven in photography at the moment. ⁓ weather is proving challenging this week. I was obviously away last week and it was cracking the flags over here. ⁓ so yeah, it was it was hot over here, but this week has been an absolute washout. So we've had to cancel three take-ons this week, which has put the diary back. But yeah, valuations are good as well, quite strong. So I can't really complain. It's all all pretty good. I'm just finding it very challenging getting deals over the line at the moment, just a lot of back and forth with offers. Michelle: I'm Ian Storey: Okay. Dave Warburton: And obviously keeping homeowners ⁓ up to speed and and in reality, you know, I had a good half an hour on the phone with one of my clients last night, ⁓ talking to them about the market conditions and just, you know, they've already reduced twice and are in a position where the property's still not selling, but their their particular local market is moving considerably and unfortunately it's moving down. So, ⁓ yeah, just having to keep in touch with clients more than ever. And Yeah, being really tough on negotiations. But overall it's been a good good year and the last month was good as well. So fingers crossed we can continue in that vein in June. JK: Perfect. Right. So we were going to talk about what today, Michelle. You had the today's topic lined up. So you introduce it. Michelle: Yeah, I did. Yeah. So, ⁓ on LinkedIn this week, I was having some back and forth with another agent, Craig from Northwall, and we were just commenting and talking on how buyers are using AI when they're structuring their offers. So it's very statistical and data heavy. And they're coming up with these kind of very much data-driven reports as to why they're offering white. you know, the level that they're offering. And I think it's really interesting and I can see from other forums and groups that it's happening across the board and it's also happening with disputes and lettings and things like that. you know, it's not going away and I think it's actually a great area to focus on because I think there's lots that can be taken away and applied practically ⁓ as agents to help steer both the seller and the buyer through this process. You had some thoughts on it Dave, didn't you? Dave Warburton: Well, it I mean, my view is I think I think it can be quite helpful. Michelle: Controversial, come on! Ian Storey: Hmm. Yeah. Well how in what way? Dave Warburton: Well, ⁓ listen, I I I think well what with buyers so w well with with buyers having data you mean? I I mean I I I don't mind it because it it adds a little bit of realism to what's actually happening in the market. ⁓ I think it can work both ways. With before we came on air, we were talking about a couple of examples where statistical data is needed and the right person needs to be handling those types of phone calls. And I think to be fair, Ian, you mentioned ⁓ Phil. JK: A U AI. Dave Warburton: being very, very good with his statistical data and being able to back stuff up and, you know, challenging buyers. Yeah, I had one yesterday that funnily enough, talking about one of those offers, you he's made a seven hundred and ten thousand pound offer on an eight hundred thousand pound house. ⁓ you know, he's he's looking at a house that sold in twenty twenty one for the same value. ⁓ and he's going, Well, that's what I think the market's ⁓ that was the absolute peak of the market. It's dropped since then, so I'm gonna make the same sort of offer. And Ian Storey: Yeah. Yeah. Dave Warburton: He's actually incorrect. You know, the market has tr has gone up 15% since that house was sold. and although we're on a bit of a downward trajectory, it was quite an interesting conversation to have with him. But when you are talking about levels of reductions and things like this where houses are stuck, ⁓ to be honest, I I think that it helps it can help your negotiations with the seller. I think it can help you with brand new instructions because You know, what do most sellers want to do before what before they go on the market? They what do they have in their head with the price? You know, they'll they'll they'll need educating, but they'll always have a figure roughly in their head what they think the house is worth. Let's say that they think the house is worth nine hundred thousand, they're their automatic reaction for ninety-nine percent of sellers I think is to, right, well we'll put it on a nine fifty or a million because we're always going to get knocked down. And what they fail to realize is that ⁓ buyers now have got access to more data than ever before. So being more competitively priced to create that competition and dig into the emotional ⁓ connection of a buyer is more important than ever before. Hence why, you know, I can go down a rabbit hole here. But when you when you sell in a home and presenting a home, this is why video is incredibly important because you can really talk about what you can do with a house and how you can showcase it and things like that and talk about the lifestyle that the home offers. ⁓ but if we purely talking about stats, data, all that sort of stuff, I I don't mind it. I I like buyers having the information because it it brings a bit of realism to the market and and I think that sellers need to get real. And right now, in particular, ⁓ there is too much overpriced stock. There was thirty five percent of houses been reduced on right move. It's massive. ⁓ so I I yeah, I don't mind it. JK: I think AI has its place. But also the other thing about AI is that AI isn't always correct. People assume if they use Chat GPT and say, Make this offer on this house, and it could be like an and add statistical data to back up my low offer. And it will it'll add in there something like, you know, ⁓ dash, ⁓ dash, like, ⁓ you know, this isn't this, it's this and according to X, Y, and Z, it's this. And then they'll they'll copy and paste that to you as the agent. And you go, Well, that's all wrong. Go back to ⁓ and say, actually, this is all wrong. They'll then go running back to Chat GPT and go, the agent said this is wrong. Then the cat chat GPT will be like, Huh, good catch. You're right. We are wrong. And then that person feels like an idiot then. So AI is only as good as what you put into it. And that's why I mean I I've been much more team clawed than I have ⁓ team chat GPT in more recent times. And Ian Storey: Okay. JK: One of the things like if you if we're going back to what you said at the start, Michelle, about not just negotiation, but agents using it in things like like letting scenarios, like having the ⁓ Renters Rights Act downloaded fully and available to that ⁓ chat GP well not chat GPT to to Claude or whatever it is that you're using, and asking it to specifically reference that and double check anything that you say before you say it is crucial because then it will quote the source and quote the article from where it's from. So it's sim it's very important what you put and I love AI. I mean me me and Dave have talked about all the AI tools that we're using at the moment with enabling us to you know write emails quicker, ⁓ get back to clients quicker. my proposal process that I've I've I've shared with you guys as well in terms of how much quicker I can put data together and analyze ⁓ statistical data and get to the numbers I need to Michelle: Hmm. JK: Yeah, so when I'm in the living room and post living room, the data is there. I don't have to sift through different spreadsheets and bits and pieces. I can get it all there and ready in front of mind day for day. Dave Warburton: Yeah, I mean d j just I'm sorry, sorry, just on the AI thing. I mean, I'm obviously referring to data and and having data at your fingertips and things like that. You know, if somebody chats writes into Chat GBT, you know, how much of house price has been affected in the last five years in this particular postcode and that. ⁓ AI is a great tool and it will make seem people seem more articulate, but it doesn't change the fact that you are supposed to be the expert and If people are coming back at you with stuff, you you just you just need to be armed with the stuff yourself. And if you're not, there's a problem. Ian Storey: Yeah, that's the point. That's the point. Yeah. If you know the data in your local market well enough yourself, then it doesn't matter what data buyers have got. If you know the genuine data, then you can argue the point, can't you? And if the buyer is right that then maybe the the house is priced wrong and it and it helps you with the seller to show them what they're doing. Dave Warburton: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, an experience well. JK: But I always say valuation's subjective, it's worth what someone's prepared to pay. Ian Storey: That is partly true. Well I'm saying that's massively true, but what I was g what I meant was it's partly true in terms of the emotional side of the purchase. So if they really, really, really want it, then as we all know, emotion beats logic. Dave Warburton: Absolutely, JK. But it Yeah. Cositos. Michelle: It does, but I think there's a real danger here. And I think this is where there's a huge learning point is when you're doing a negotiation or those conversations are opened, you need your team to be able to handle that type of conversation and negotiation. So you could go to war with data. So you could be sparring for a long time, you know, but that isn't the point, is it? So it's what skills have your team got? Ian Storey: Yeah. ⁓ Michelle: to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. How can they ⁓ deescalate somebody who is kind of on the charge armed with their report and their statistics and their data and is really kind of headstrong and focused into getting the result that they want? Because that isn't going to give you a productive negotiation conversation, is it? So it's understanding and being able to handle that type of approach rather than it becoming combative. Dave Warburton: Yeah, I agree. And it's it it it I just think it makes people seem more articulate. But I you know, it doesn't change the fac it's noise in in my opinion. I think that y you know, as long as you know your local market and you know the the house and you know how to negotiate emotionally as well with that particular person, everybody wants to try and get a deal, but ultimately how much do they want the house? ⁓ so it's all to me, it's so much noise. Yeah. JK: I think it all goes back to their why though. Like again, you can talk about figures and data, but removing all of that, as you b as you've all said, the emotional side of things and the best negotiations and deals are done, in my opinion, by asking the best questions and c having people come into their their own conclusion about why they 'cause they need to justify, you know, how many times have we done man maths or girl maths and gone, you know, this needs to be I don't know. Michelle: Yeah. It's, yeah. JK: you've saved, I don't know, X amount of pounds on someone else so it can justify you going on holiday with the lads for, you know, 800 quid or, you know, you you make the justifications in your own mind. ⁓ and to to to kind of do that back to agency, ⁓ you know, when you're speaking to someone and saying, you know, what what is it about this house that is making you offer ⁓ that amount? So let's say for example they're at seven ten instead of eight hundred, where you know, where Tell me, you know, where where have we come to seven, ten, rather than email? Because this is where ch chat GPT and that there's no you say it a lot, Dave, there's no tone of voice in ⁓ in in text. And chat GPT is very matter of fact. And if you go then go back very matter of fact with your own AI or your own voice, it's very matter, matter, matter. Whereas you've actually there's a great invention, ⁓ and a lot of people have got them now. They're called phones, and you could pick it up and speak to a person at the other end. And Ian Storey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so true. JK: Have a conversation with the but you know, because everyone's I even had to say this to one of my team the other day. An inquiry came in and I was like, ⁓ are they booked in? I've emailed them. ⁓ what are you doing? Why you emailing? Pick up the phone. Pick up the phone. Like, they've just emailed though. Yeah. And we must they must be by their phone then. Ring them and if they don't answer, then you can email or WhatsApp or whatever. But anyway, going back to the whole point of what I was about to say, with the offer, you know, j just Dave Warburton: ⁓ Ian Storey: Yeah. JK: You know, tell me a bit about where you got to seven ten. And they then start saying, Well, you know, Dave, ⁓ they've they've dropped by fifteen percent in this area and blah, blah, blah. And then you can then like like you quite rightly said, Dave, actually, prices have gone up fifteen percent since they bought it. And if you look at the data for when we actually value this house, we actually put together a full ⁓ data set about, you know, where it sits in valuation. And actually I think you'll find that the data supports nearer eight than it does seven ten. ⁓ And then you can then use, you know, if you really wanted to, the spread I I put obviously the spreadsheet together of the transactions that are available there. Show the data to to the buyer and say, look, this is the data that supports the valuation. ⁓ let's have a conversation about, you know, where you are, where they are, and where can you get to and what why is seven ten on the table? What have you seen elsewhere that's brought you to a seven hundred and ten thousand pound offer? Dave Warburton: think there's also a concern as well from buyers that they're going to be paying too much in this market and they're worried about negative equity as well. I think there's a genuine concern for a lot of people because of what's happening. So again, ⁓ whenever we put forward a low offer, I'd ⁓ sometimes you've got to empathise. Obviously sometimes you get derisory offers, but you know, if I speak to homeowners, I've y y you you often say, look, it it is low, but these are probably the reasons why we're looking at such a low offer because we are in a bit of a market that's that's trending downwards at the moment. There's a lot of my local areas at the moment trending downwards. I think most are ⁓ there's the odd anomaly. But it yeah, I think buyers justifiably so are concerned. They want they don't want to overpay. I mean look at people who overpaid in 2008 on Northern Rock mortgages, you know, where they ended up. So there's a little bit of that and as we've talked about in the past, I think the I think the market still is suffering a bit of a recession type feel to it. And you've got to be I think buyers have got to be careful but Again, it comes down to to the to the the why, as you've said. I was with a client yesterday showing them around a big house ⁓ that we've got for sale and you know, they they were walking round and he was sort of saying, I like this side of the house, it's about an acre of ground. He was like, I like this side of the house, I'm not keen on this, I'd have to do a lot of work here and then he's gone inside and he says, Well, I don't like the the style of it and it's gonna need a lot of work, I'm gonna need to do this. There's probably three hundred and fifty thousand pounds worth of work here. And I'm like, Is there is the or are you just using this now to try and get a better deal? So You know, t tapping into his emotions, we sort of said, Right, we'll take the number away. You know, is this is the house the right size? Is this shell the right size? Yes. Is the location right? Yeah, 90% right. And you know I prefer prefer to be a little bit further down the road, but this is the only house in the area available. ⁓ are the grounds right? Yeah, good size, perfect land, I've got great views, just need to do this, that, and the other to it. Well, fast forward now, twelve months, you've done everything to this house, you've done everything to the house, you sat in it, are you happy? Are you content? And he was like, ⁓ yeah, definitely, I can see it, I can see it. Right, well now let's put the number back. What's the number? What does the number look like to you to get you in this house? Because it's not going to be £350,000 off. So we can stop stop that conversation. You know, what what does it start with? Let's be sensible. So we started having conversations then about price. ⁓ and it was nowhere near where the homeowner wants to be right now. But he's already told me all the things that he wants to do in that home and he's envisaged himself living in it in twelve months' time. So I now know exactly what buttons to press. And he's full of data he was full of data telling me all about the market. ⁓ and then he was telling me how much he would need to spend on it. But the other three people that I've got viewing it next week probably won't need to spend as much as him. So I can use these as leverage to get where we need to be. So all the data that he's proposing and the numbers that he's proposing are bullshit to be honest with you. It comes down to all the house. JK: Can I just say on that Dave as well, like having that offer and that feedback and giving it to the seller, get g getting an offer and using it and giving it to the seller is great. 'Cause what you know, what what's that saying if ⁓ you don't get any view ins, the sellers blame the agent. If you get bad offers, they blame the market. Dave Warburton: Well, do you know what, JK? This particular house is on at one point two five million. ⁓ and I was the lowest of three valuations. And and e I felt it was topic based on the fact that it probably does need a level of work doing to it. But we had a conversation, it's been on the market for three months, and we had a conversation, me and the owner, about three weeks ago, four weeks ago, where they said we're not in any rush, which is a classic, isn't it, from most vendors? But when they've gone away and had time to digest it and only had a couple of you in since, they've now started saying Do you know what, David? In hindsight, ⁓ what you sold us ⁓ is ringing true. ⁓ you know, we've not had a much more interest yet in that last sort of four weeks since we last ⁓ properly spoke about the market. ⁓ we're g we're moving into June, as it were, and like it's just rung with me now. You said to me if we've not got a buyer by July, then we might be looking at twenty twenty seven in this house or Christmas in this house. So it then it then went towards price and and and and their why, you know, what they're trying to achieve. They they've no chain. They they don't need the money necessarily. The successful people, what does what does you know, the question started gearing towards, you know, does does two hundred and fifty thousand pounds massively change your life? And that's a hell of a lot of money. But for these people, not so much. You know, this whatever they get for this house goes straight into their pension pot, which I guess is already very, very full. ⁓ and they were like, not really, no. I said, Well, what we're doing pissing around at 1.25 million then. And it just so happens That we've had a flurry of interest in the last week and I've said, Well, let's just hang fire. There's no point dropping it to a million right now. We've got three people that are coming to view it. One of them was yesterday. Let's see how the other two go next week. But their mindset has shifted enormously. You know, they're now like, Do you know what? If we get anything over a million, we're we're happy. It's very saleable at a million, but I still think the the next week or two could prove to be different. So just again, having these c these conversations with ⁓ sellers and buyers is is very important. But I know it's not in the context of AI there and data, but the the conversation at the viewing was very much that. And feeding that back to the seller has made them realise even more that, you know, perhaps we do need to be a bit more realistic here. JK: I think there's good conversation to have with sellers around price though. ⁓ we we did one recently this week where you know it was around the sort of four fifty mark and you know other agents had said four seven five, four eighty, and we said really it's more like four thirty, four forty, and it needs to be offers over four two five. ⁓ and then we went at a random price and it'd be like four sixty, which kind of went against everything, but they the sellers were insistent that that's what they wanted to try. So I said, Look, we'll go with it anyway. nothing happened as as expected. ⁓ and I said, look, we need we need to do this. If you want to buy this other house and you want to get moving, this is what we need to do because we're, you know, we haven't got all the time in the world on our side. But also equally, you know, we're not in a rising market. So the market isn't going to catch up. You both got good jobs. You're both like almost doubling the value of house that you're going to. You both earn good money. you know, I'm not going to sit here and say I told you so, but what does it look like? Like you just said, Dave, a second ago. What does it look like? If we end up getting four thirty, four thirty five for this house, ⁓ how how much is that going to impact your life over the next five to ten years if you if you quote unquote lose ten, fifteen, twenty grand that you never had that you're hanging on to? ⁓ and she sat down and thought about it and said, actually, no, you're right, ⁓ let's just do it. And then we we change the price. Seven days later, it's sold. They're moving forward, they're buying the next house and we j we're moving on. But sometimes There's a real skill in having that emotional intelligence and again, tone of voice. You know, if you sit there like a keyboard warrior on WhatsApp or on email or just ignoring ⁓ the client, things aren't going to change. But you need to be able to have the I'm gonna say the bollocks, but I don't wanna just pigeon it off as as a man, like, you know, you're whatever the other equivalent is, the stones to to ha to be out of go, look, guys, ⁓ what is it? Ian Storey: Okay. Move on. Just move on. Michelle: Do you want a shovel? I'll take you out the hole. JK: Yeah, go on. Tell me. What should I what should I say? No, but you do. You need to have the bollocks to be able to say, like, you need to change the price. I'm the expert and this is what I do, and your price needs to change. Like you could be around the bush all you want and blame the market, blame Iran, blame the mortgage, blame Brexit or whatever it is. But the reality is change the fucking price. If the marketing is right, then it's the price. Ian Storey: Yeah. You do, yeah. Dave Warburton: What is one thing you don't? Ian Storey: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Michelle: Yeah, I think these are really valid points and it's definitely reflective of the market we're in and also kind of the other agents that we are talking to around the country. I know everybody's experiencing the same thing. I think to just bring it back to the AI and what can practically be done to help. I think it's back to basics. I mean, this isn't reinventing the wheel. It has to be that it goes relationship focused and not transactional. So the more kind of relationship building that the team can do throughout the whole process, it's then really hard to make a negotiation back to transactional when you've already got a relationship. So you can't be an ass to somebody that you actually genuinely like and have got a rapport with, you know, it doesn't work that way, does it? So to kind of negate and get over these things that are happening in the negotiation, it starts from day one of the ⁓ kind of client relationship to both seller and buyer. So I think the more focus that can go into that, the better. think secondly, when somebody does come armed with all that data, it's making sure the people that are receiving that call can handle it in the right way. And I think some diffusion techniques can be really powerful. often if somebody's coming in quite a kind of formal data driven, bordering aggressive sometimes way of putting their offer forward. The first step is diffusion. And that can be as simple as, thank you so much for the offer. I really appreciate that you've taken the time to do some research and I can see that this is important to you. ⁓ That type of statement can really just take the wind out of someone's ⁓ sails. Ian Storey: Yeah. Michelle: And stop it going straight to data, data combat, because that isn't productive. And the other thing, which ⁓ I know you mentioned Ian is to have your own market data and know it, but say it in the right way. This can come across as you've been a right knob, you know, if it's said in the wrong way. ⁓ Well, actually the data says that, you know, and you're wrong and I'm right. And that is not the type of scenario you want to be in. So. getting the team to be able to relay data in the right way. And that might look like, I understand why you've got that picture of the market. It can be really nuanced and confusing how we do it is, and this is what we know to have happened X, Y, Z. If you want me to send you some more information on that, I'm really willing to do it because I know how kind of confusing it can be when you're not looking in the right places. It's how you say it and tone, you said, JK is also really important. Dave Warburton: think what you're saying as well is it's spot on there Michelle and ⁓ I what what backing it up backing up what you're saying is just a great show. I mean it's an obvious thing to do but I don't think a lot of people will do it. Like being really nice about it and saying let me send you some stuff about showing you about the local market conditions. Because a lot of what people read and hear is national based. You know the right move property house price index is the same. ⁓ It's very national I mean, yes, it does regionalize, of course it does, but it doesn't break down ⁓ the narrative in your very local area. And that's why we use different types of data to really showcase the very, very local area. Because I mean, a a great example is is where I am. You know, there's a there's an area called Lostock where I am. ⁓ and if we're right next door to another one called Heaton, the contrasts in house prices is s it's unbelievable. Like ⁓ Lostock. has has come down twenty percent in a year, which is you know horrendous, really, ⁓ but but real. And people in Lost Ot need to get get real. Just you are literally talking half a mile down the road, Heaton, different, slightly different po postcode, but an extension of the same road even, that that has come down about three percent, nowhere near. And the activity's better. So when you read Bolton's statistics, the property market's gone up over a 12 month period. So people will say to me, Well, house prices have been going up, haven't they, in Bolton? I'll say, Well, not r not really. Let's look at the real data. You know, BL six four where you live, we've actually come down twenty percent. It's one of the worst affected areas in Greater Manchester. Did you know that? Have a look at this graph. This is all land registry data, completed sales. And that's obviously majority of the time you're working with sellers, but I think you've really touched on a good point there. You know, tone of voice is really important, but diffusing the situation and you know, thanking that person for for coming forward with something that's quite strategic and Michelle: Hmm. Dave Warburton: Knowledgeing what's happening and saying, I can understand why you might be being cautious and why you're worried, but let me educate you on what's actually happening in the local market here. I'll show you exactly. So that house, ⁓ I've had a house that I mentioned before. So it's on eight hundred thousand, they've offered seven ten, and he automatically thinks that the market is worse now than it was in twenty twenty one, and it's significantly better. and that's the conversation I had with him yesterday. Same sort of thing. ⁓ that actually the ⁓ the market's gone up. I can show you that. I don't want you to be buying something that you've no confidence in. Ian Storey: Yeah. Dave Warburton: But let me show you why. And he also didn't know the circumstances behind the seller of that particular house, whereas I do. ⁓ it was a private sale between father and son, and naturally it doesn't reflect anywhere near market value. So he didn't know any of that. And again, there's a couple of things. If that had all been done over email, that guy would have probably just walked away. Or if that's exactly what he thought the market had done, he probably would have just walked away if it had been flat rejection. But the conversation steered towards what has actually happened in the local market, the circumstances behind that sale. you know, we we want you to have a a level of confidence buying this and and here there are stats to back it up. So I think you're absolutely spot on. It's i it's how it's handled and the tone of voice that's used with it as well and the the the empathy that you need to have with buyers in this market because a lot of it's it it's not all piss take. It's not all piss take. A lot of it is through fear. And I think you've got to respect that and your your sellers have got to respect that too. Michelle: Yeah, I agree. I think you do have to handle the buyer conversation very empathetically and strategically. And you also want to lead them to where you need them to be as well. And, you can't do that without doing the other stuff first. You have to deal with the emotion before you deal with any logic. And so I think that's really a key takeaway for people in this age with, you know, data so readily available. Ian Storey: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Dave Warburton: Of everything we've talked about on this podcast for the last 30 odd minutes, that is the takeaway that you've just given there, the last five minutes. Yeah. I really believe it. You know, like you've said, that that initial response to a derisory offer needs to be handled carefully. Because you your natural reaction, mine is when I see one, I'll fuck off. What is that? One of the girls reports an offer, like Michelle: available every week. Dave Warburton: We've got an offer on Cheapfoot Lane, it's on at 900, it's 760. And that immediately actually is tell them to fuck off. But then you pick up the phone and go, Hi John, thanks for your offer. really appreciate what you've said and the reasons behind your offer, but it's not quite where we need to be. ⁓ like that, John. so yeah, it honestly it is. I think it's absolute gold that. And and you know, take the take your emotion out of it as well. Like I've just said there, the anger initially comes through. Michelle: Thank JK: Yeah. Dave Warburton: What a waste of everyone's time. Why have they viewed it? Why is the house ⁓ the seller tidied up and all that sort of stuff? Why have we w sent a viewing representative there for the last hour? It's a waste of everybody's time and you're coming in with that offer. But it's a sign of the market, driven mainly by I think, fear a lot of the time, not piss take. So I I think you just need to have those conversations ⁓ rationally with with buyers and sellers. Michelle: Yeah, agreed. JK: Yeah. Well seems like a good place to call it. I think that's been value packed, improv. Dave Warburton: Well it was. It it was value packed for the last six minutes when Michelle started talking. Yeah. I'm not coming again. ⁓ no. JK: Yeah. Like last week. Anyway, on that note, ⁓ we will see you all next week. ⁓ we have got ⁓ mastermind in two weeks, so there is still time to ⁓ to join if you are on the fence. We have a mastermind in two weeks, ⁓ or less than two weeks. ⁓ Michelle, can you just add some value on that really quickly? Can you just unpack it for me? Dave Warburton: Michelle's available. Michelle: It's going to be great. Dave Warburton: Yeah. JK: Anyway, let's see you all next week. Thank you for listening and ⁓ yeah, have a great day. Dave Warburton: Cheers guys. Ian Storey: I