Latest / Weirdly Effective: How Creative Businesses Build Experiences / Gravesco Pottery Uses a Mug to Create Lifelong Customers

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Gravesco Pottery Uses a Mug to Create Lifelong Customers · Weirdly Effective: How Creative Businesses Build Experiences

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: The best creative businesses don't just sell a thing, they build an experience around it to delight their audience.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Think a kit that you can't wait to unbox, a Kickstarter that has you freaking out, or a loyalty club that actually gives you stuff you want.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is Weirdly Effective, the podcast where I sit down with the people who built those experiences and we dive right into it.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: How they came up with the idea, why it works, and most importantly, what their audience did next.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap, and this is a show all about weirdly effective strategies.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: I am really excited to talk with you today.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's so nice to be here.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for inviting me.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we met through a mutual friend, and I was incredibly excited to meet you because you quickly like exceeded all expectations that I had for what you're doing.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so for people who don't know you, yeah, I'd love for you to introduce yourself.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm Rebecca Prouse.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I own Gravesco Pottery.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's named Gravesco because my last main name is Graves, and I added and company on the end, got the social media Gravesco, and then people started calling me that.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I rebranded to Gravesco.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I make functional pottery and have a little brick and mortar store in Indianapolis.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And my real love is just making pottery that becomes a part of people's everyday lives and makes their houses, their homes so uniquely theirs that it couldn't be anyone else's.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it shows in everything that you do.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason that you like exceeded expectations was so I have I came from like the crafting industry and you meet a lot of potters, and a lot of them get stuck in this like a certain scale where it gets hard to I can do my farmer's market, but the shipping gets hard and the the kiln access or space, and then your stuff takes up a lot of room, and you you have your own brick and mortar, like it is this big thing you've shipped all over, you've had your stuff in TV productions, so impressed.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then the more I dug into it, yeah, you really lean into that.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: These are pieces that become they're almost like an extension of you, and they really reflect your house.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're both artists, and I feel like people walk into our houses and they're just always like, There's so much to look at, and you don't realize how weird your house is until you go into like normal people's houses and you're like, Yes, oh, where's your art?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you bought that at IKEA.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, you didn't make it, or you didn't buy it from another artist, or you know, like you didn't cobble it together from dumpster finds, you know, like right.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or you weren't waiting in line for a rock show and a nine-year-old kid came up and hustled you for a sharpie portrait for five dollars.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've got portraits of Chris and I on the wall in like magenta sharpie that a nine-year-old drew outside of St.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew's Hall in Detroit.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Hey, you want to buy some art?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because there is something about certain ceramics, and yours is like that, where it's not just that it's pretty, like you really lean into one, the functionality, but there's so much design that goes into the functionality because maybe it's me, but like when you pick up mugs, you know instantly if it if somebody was thoughtful or not for how it fits your hand.
• 3:39
  unknown: Yes.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a little teacup.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I picked it up at an art fair and I was instantly like, oh my god, this is my like take my money right now.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've never found one that fit my small hand so well, and it's got gold on it, you know, like metallic.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yes, take my money.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, it's$60.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't care.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'll use it every day, all day.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I love, yeah, you you are unapologetic too.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like with you, like where you have put yourself strategy-wise, it is this, they are these aspirational pieces, and yet like La Crusade is aspirational too.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there's this weird thing where like they can do it, but a lot of smaller businesses have that harder time of justifying the same price.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think in every every facet of the art world that I've been in, or in the maker world that I've been in, there are all of the people who can't justify the price like a La Corset.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they will look at someone else's work who is charging appropriately and be like, who does she think she is?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm immune to that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not for you then.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not for you.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in department stores for over 20 years as a corporate um regional director, and we had kind of middle of the road Midwest department store, but then we had these collections areas with high prices.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: We had the Ralph Lorenz shops where they like came in and put the wood floors and everything.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember hearing a lot of people going, that's too high priced, and thinking, no, it's just not in your budget, and that's fine.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's no judgment in that.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like that reframe.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because yeah, everybody's sliding scale is different, everybody's range is different.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I I'm always the one like with strategy-wise, where I'm like, um, and you know it too from your bending, you even in your booth want this range or in your shop because people don't want to be cheap, so they won't want to buy just like um, like you have the sugar savers, um, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, I need one of those.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, Well, I can't just buy that because that's like the cheapest thing on your website.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You totally can, and it'll be just fine.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you just need a thing, yes, but like psychology-wise, like we like to fit in the middle, but then it's so good to have these aspirational ones, which um we're gonna talk about here.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you have this slow dark collection and you have this big cauldron, you know, that's like that's kind of my aspirational piece.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I might start here, but like eyes are kind of on the prize of right, I need to save up for that.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I do art fairs or I do maker events, I always have one or two aspirational pieces in the booth that I do not expect to sell.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: But they're large, they're in charge, they're in your face, and it will draw attention into the booth.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And once somebody's in there, they're gonna pick up something because they have a connection with it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And those always help a lot more than just having like everything in the mid-range and lower range.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it it one, yes, it gives them that it's that visual to get people to stop, but it is also like it anchors that price point at the end.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: It does, it does, and it connects people to my work that I am more than just mugs and bowls, which is also really helpful.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, collect my work, please.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have range.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a good segue.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we'll come back to Slit Art because you mentioned like collect.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: You have a club.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: As somebody who has run clubs before, I was like, Oh, I haven't seen one for ceramics, like for like this before.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I always I'm the weird one who's like, tell me how it works.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, like what made you decide to build a club?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, how does it work?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of customers that have had from the very beginning.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I started my social media, excuse me, my my goal was not to grow as big as I could as fast as I could.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: My goal was to connect with people who resonated with my work and with my stories.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I've grown slowly over the years, which I think makes me a little bit of a surprise to a lot of people, like when I go to the ceramics conference and whatnot.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but my my entire goal was connecting with people.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And a few years ago, I started a loyalty program because I kept hearing before we had the brick and mortar, oh, I haven't seen you at a show for a while.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll wait around until you're at another show.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing shows.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to be out on the pavement more than a couple times a year because I have autoimmune issues and it makes me physically ill to be in the heat for that long.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not going to see me out on the street.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, I have no control over what shows I get into.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can apply, but that doesn't mean I'll get in.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I started a loyalty club where people get points when they order from me online.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what the companion club is.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: When you buy things and you use your email, you automatically get points.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when you have enough, I'll send you a discount code.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then also during Black Friday, I'll send discount codes.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm like, I'm feeling feisty today.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna send her a thousand points, and you know, maybe she'll pull the trigger and get that thing that she was really looking for because she has an extra little something.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then after we opened the retail store, there were a lot of people who come into Indianapolis just for like one or two weekends the entire year, whether they're here for work or family or whatever.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I started a subscription box as well.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now that is currently on pause because I got a little overwhelmed.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would like to, I originally was way too ambitious with doing it every other month.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to do it once a quarter.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have two people who are still on it for every other month, and they're just like my favorite loyal diehard customers.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like, no, you guys stay.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll keep doing it for you.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but my goal is that once a quarter I'll release a subscription box, and I am a gifter.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love to make it a full experience.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just I made this mug and we're gonna ship it to you as part of a subscription.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an entire experience for the season.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll relaunch that during the holidays for 2027.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so like I'm so excited.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love this stuff because it's it's delighting people and it's getting to play as an artist.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, I'm not just like, oh, here's my thing.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how do I make it?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a reason those unboxing videos took off when they did because people just there's something about feeling like somebody was very thoughtful with the gift that they, even though you bought it, it's still like it's a gift to yourself, right?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I always like put in little extras and I'll do custom stickers to go in.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I want it to be fun to open.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that's important.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then with the companion club, which is the like loyalty rewards points, I use um smile.io on Shopify.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I've tried a bunch of different loyalty clubs.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you're on Shopify, that one is by far the easiest and most robust.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that one has been really fun to see in the store because just like when I was at the department store, they have their own branded credit card.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: The person, the purpose of that is if you have that credit card, customers will spend 25 to 30 percent more in your store every year.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, like there's that financial piece of it, but more importantly, people want to shop with me.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not always top of mind.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I may not always show up in their inbox, or maybe they're not on my mailing list because they don't want to be on a mailing list.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: But they're going to get points when they shop with me because I think it's important to give back to our customers.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love it because one, it comes from a place like as you see it, of giving back to them.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And yet on the flip side of it, it is you in a way taking control of a situation that so many people just kind of throw their hands up and say, like, I can't control my customer, I can't tell them what to buy.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in a way, you are at least giving yourselves these little like these little like hooks in to be like, but I can make you remember me, but I can make you come back, and I can like push you over that to like just just to see, like, because also like it's not you're not being sleazy, you know they want it, and you're like, hey, if it's right for you, then let's go get it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like now's the time, like yeah, and the you hit on something really important there.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: The if it's right for you, now's the time.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do come from that corporate world where I sat in the boardroom and marketing was about focus groups and finding out pain points and really manipulating people into the pushing the levers and what they need, what they didn't need.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to do that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I send you a five dollar discount code because you're in my companion club and you don't use it, that's fine.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's totally fine.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: No feelings hurt because I want you to have the stuff you want to have when you want to have it, but sometimes I want to be there to remind you, hey, I'm still here, yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Still making pots.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's a really good differentiation because yeah, so many people are like, well, I don't want to feel sleazy, and then they're like, So I'll never talk to my customer and I'll never show them things.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, you're still an adult and you can make your own decisions.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yet they'll still use the$10 coupon that they get from whoever in the loyalty club they didn't know that they were in because it's their birthday.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is so I love that, yeah, you you are, I don't even want to say at peace with it because we don't need to be at peace with it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's you're realistic about it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like my customer, if it's the right time, they will make the decision.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I love that you are like, this is not an uncontrollable situation.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: There are things that I can still do, not to like manipulate them, but to like remain top of mind.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you can think about it from like you are creating more opportunities for them to buy more of the things that they love.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: It is not coming from a sleazy place at all.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want everyone like bookmark this and just get over it.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, my mailing list is the same way.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coming to peace with that because for a long time I didn't know what to write, and yet I'm writing prolifically on Instagram.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's my primary platform.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I will like write thoughts and observations and all this stuff.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why am I not putting this in emails?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I just recently started studio letters, and I'm not calling it join my email list, it's join the studio letters because just as often as we made this new thing, it's going to be here's an observation or this is what I made today.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a letter from me from the studio.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And a couple of years ago, a friend said to me, I don't know why you don't use your email list more.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would consider it a favor as a person on your email list because I want to know what's going on.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want the peak behind the curtain.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a really good reframe.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: But then I still didn't know what the hell to say in an email.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I still sat on it for a couple of years.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's very common.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's very common because we feel like we don't have anything to say or we're we're bugging them.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if they've signed up, right, essentially they've said, please let me know what you're doing.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, like when somebody signs up to my list, to my studio letters list, that's like a sacred trust to me.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: In your inbox, you invited me into your living room.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or at the very least, your home office.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take that seriously.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like I love that, yes, it's repurposing the material, but also like it's acknowledging the inbox.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: While some people's is still a mess, like it's still going to be there, unlike Instagram, where it will just never show up in my feed.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: At least it's still there.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, it's Megan, a quick one.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you've heard so far today has been a live case study for what we do here at FatCap.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we build clever, personality-packed brands that attract audiences and keep them coming back for more.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you've wondered what we could do for your business, click the link below and schedule Discovery Call.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's get back to the interview.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram isn't going to show my people to more than like four or five percent of my followers.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So even though I have over 16,000 followers, fewer people will see my Instagram post than will see people on my mailing list of 5,000 people.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have over a 40% open rate on my email.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that percentage of 5,000 is higher than what we'll usually see my Instagram post.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good reframe.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: That one definitely motivated.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: That one definitely motivated me to like actually be more consistent with email.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and have you have you found a way to make it fun for you?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I quit worrying about promoting stuff.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even worry about it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, it is not about, I made the thing, you want to buy it?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because like that's basically what email marketing is.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm definitely not going to do you have a pain point.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to sell you something for it?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just took that pressure to sell off.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more of a this is what's going on in the studio, this is what's happening this week for my local list.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, these are the things that we're working on, these are the things that I'm thinking about.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I use Spox for email for Shopify, which is all fully integrated.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're a new company.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: The developer used to work with Clavio, so it's like the good parts of Clavio without the overwhelm.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that helped because now it's not, I don't have to be a techmaster to go in and send an email or send it to a segment, and it's connected to my Shopify store.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I will tell a story and then under my signature put four or six products.
• 17:45
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like there's a hero picture that corresponds with the stuff down below, and you can figure it out.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're grown up with an email account.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Someone has let you get one of those.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, I like that because I think when we're artists and we're so in it, it is always fascinating to me the people who aren't artists who like how invested they get in your life because they're almost like creatively living vicariously through you.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And like they're never gonna make a mug, but they are like heavily invested in you making, like in each collection that comes out of the kiln.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um as if it was theirs.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And our mutual friend Mary, I sent her a couple of videos, and it was like one video of me throwing, and it was the entire process.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a minute and a half, and then one with it, like with all of the pauses where I'm like rinsing the sponge and stuff clipped out, yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then one where it's just the big dramatic pull.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, which one do you like?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing or the one with the boring parts cut out?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Um, what boring parts?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like me rinsing my sponge.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, uh-huh, what boring parts?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody had to take one ceramic class to get the full art major, you know, because you had to try all of the disciplines.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of fun, but like that was the I think that was the sympathy A that I got because my stuff just I gifted it to somebody and they were like, Oh, did you make this when you were in kindergarten?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No, don't like it just kept blowing up in the kill, and then I was just like, This is just like ceramics and I were just not meant to be, but I needed to take it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um for what it's worth, in high school and college, there wasn't a single piece that I made in clay that survived the classes that I took, and I did not touch it again until I was 38.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I feel better now.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then I sucked at it, and I was like, fuck this, I'm not doing this.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I came back to it a year later and I was like, okay, this is gonna be my life now.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: It got you.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you are launching, and it will obviously like we'll be full in it by the time this comes out, but you have a slow dark collection, yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Which is kind of is this like your big thing of the like of the year?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is this like your biggest or most memorable?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: It would probably end up being the most memorable of the year.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was originally intended to be my third quarter seasonal launch.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, fall is coming.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I usually do a collection for each season, and I struggle the most with the summer collection because I have seasonal affective disorder in the summer.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Most people get it in the winter.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have it in the summer because I get so sick when I get overheated or I'm out in the sun.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So all summer I'm holed up in my studio with the AC on, dreaming about fall.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like the sun's shining out there.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going out there.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dreaming about fall.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: I there's a reason I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just not do sun well.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do sun well, I do not anymore.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So all summer I was making witch hats and cauldrons, and my assistant Mackenzie made all of the tiny little ghosts.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like she and I figured them out together.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: She'd go home and sit on her porch and make tiny little ghosts.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the fall is my favorite, and it's not just because of the color, it's that temperature change, but it's also noticing things.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I love observing.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the shadows getting longer, it's the days getting shorter, it's the dark slowly creeping in until it kind of takes over, and we just have that sliver of sunlight while we're probably at work and don't get to enjoy it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, the slow dark is about slowing down, it's about finding your place in your home again.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: The energy slows down, and this collection that was in originally intended for kind of my autumn Halloween-ish, I think it's gonna be around through the end of the year because it connects with that desire for ritual.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: The cauldrons in the witch hats are not getting put away just because it's November 1st.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're still getting used for snacks, and the big cauldron is a great serving bowl if it doesn't get used on an altar.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's so many elements about it that I'll keep doing.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now there are some that will sell out and that's it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: The ghosts, when they're gone, they're gone.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they will go into the light.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: But but some of the other pieces I think are gonna stay around for a little while longer because I'm not ready to let those go yet.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think our customers are either.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it really goes hand in hand with the rest of your brand strategy, which is that each piece kind of helps people slow down and make every, I don't want to just say like meal, but every instance that they use your piece, you know, because it's you don't just do drink wear and table wear, but like it does make you like stop and notice it and think about it.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it becomes this habit that you want to do every day because the mug does just feel so nice to pick up, or you know, you have um, you have like display bowls and like you look at that every day.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, if you have like an altar to put it on and it I I think it it lends itself so well.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I also would assume that most of your audience is very witchy woo and also is like, yes, please, like give me all give me the cauldron, let's go, you know.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: If they aren't, they're at least appreciative of it.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And having made those cauldrons and that sort of thing year after year, um, as more than just it's a candy bowl and it's kitschy, I think has helped kind of weed out the customers that don't necessarily align with the way that I notice things and what I'm doing.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's been really, really nice.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that I love about these seasonal collections, the slow dark in particular, is how well it plays with my core collection.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can have a cabinet full of my regular mugs and the cauldron still goes with it because the glaze is the same and some of the the markings are the same.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they play well together.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when I do a seasonal collection, my goal is always how does it fit in with the everyday work I already make?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because I intend for people to buy this stuff once and never buy it again, versus they're buying from pottery barn or I hope not Target, um, you know, wherever.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they're buying it again in a few years.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: But when you really connect with a piece, your consumption slows down just as much as your enjoyment increases.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there is a growing movement.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: You are like ahead of it, and so it will be fun to watch as it catches up with you, which is Americans learning to step away from over-consumerism, yes, and to buy things that one they actually love.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like Marie Kondo primed them for it, they just haven't gotten there yet.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need a set of like tableware for every season necessarily.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas, like, if you love it, like you're just gonna keep using that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'll keep using it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to me that the seasonal collection is an accent to the main collection.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not replace the main collection.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna make a full dinner wear set for every season.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make, you know, you have the regular dinner set and then you pick the item out of the seasonal collection that accents it and changes the mood of it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Just like if you change the throw pillows on your sofa for the season.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: You don't throw out the sofa, you just change the throw pillows, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that overconsumption, I I come from a family that was very much makers.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: We were the assholes that, you know, when I was a kid, we'd go through the art fair and my mom's going, oh, we can make that.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: My dad's like, Oh, I could make that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, now I'm learning.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't say that shit out loud.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's so rude.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was selling kits, yeah.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, You can like it's a kit.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: But now looking back at it, I realize how much of our upbringing was trying to look like we had more money than we did.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: We had to look a certain way that was very much about appearances, and it was about maybe we didn't spend a lot of money on the dinner wear, but we always had to have nice dinner wear, it always had to match.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it would get to a point that trends changed, we changed our dinner wear.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was true across the house.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't, I didn't necessarily always understand it, but I also never really liked the trend stuff.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Part of it is, you know, the Audi HD, I see the patterns, and I'm predicting trends when the big predictors are predicting them.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm usually pretty close to what's happening.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like to the point that for a long time I'd be like, Are you freaking kidding me?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I said that three years ago.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I love, I really love classic design, um, pinstripe pants and a band t-shirt and a really comfy sweater, and it's always gonna look great no matter what year it is.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's kind of the approach, yes, and what year you want.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the approach to my dinner wear.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: People will tell me all the time, oh well, you look like such an artist.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't dress weird, like I dress really freaking plain, but I do the weird things, I have the weird earrings, or you know, I've got my head shaved, or I've got the statement glasses, and that's kind of how I approach ceramics.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've got all of these basics that get you through your whole life, and then seasonally there's something that makes it stand out, and maybe every once in a while there's something that's a little weird because you need the weird stuff.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that like you get to take your customers on a journey because some of them are probably just realizing it sounds weird, but like they can make that choice of what they want in their house.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: So my brother m bought a house and he called me up and he goes, So, how do you decide what artwork goes on your walls?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh just like go somewhere, fall in love with something, buy it, stick it up.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, this is a weird question.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I think a lot of people, um, and like my mother's like this too, like she would watch HGTV, and I remember she was having conniptions about like, we need colored bottles, because everybody has colored bottles on their things, and so she's like, but which ones and in what order?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Do you even like them?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, No, we need them, like it's not an issue of like people are expecting them in her house, so we need them.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, You don't even, it's a bottle if you don't even, it's not like you collect bottles, you know.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think people are slowly realizing, like, oh, like I can choose that, and that you kind of are like holding their hand and being like, you can welcome to the wonderful world of your own decisions.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and if you're not ready to make all of your own decisions, let me give you a baseline that's going to make you start to be more comfortable with living with handmade in a way that's not intimidating, and you don't have to choose six completely different mugs, but they're still all gonna be different because they were made with my hands.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna show you some weird stuff that goes along with it, and you're gonna make a decision on the weird pieces.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is the mug is that your entry point?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay, yeah, absolutely.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I found in the last like year and a half when I started making the mugs with political statements on them, um, those are a really easy entry point because people identify with it.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much become this observation of, oh, that's me.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I need that mug.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it went from people posting photos of their mug on the counter and tagging me in it, to people posting selfies with their mug because the statement identifies with them.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when our companion mug took off.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Chris and Dave posted it, like somebody had gifted them one of them, and then they said, Too bad we don't have a fuck the patriarchy mug.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, we will tomorrow.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on, I'm on it.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Happy to do that.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did them last year, I'll do them again.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been really cool to see people have the mug and then they'll usually buy a second one, and then they'll usually buy one for a gift for somebody, and then I'm like, hey, and you know what's just as cool as the mug is my companion bowl because it fits your hands just as well, and you will use it just as often.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of I love that you yeah, I love that you know it because I feel like a lot of people don't necessarily pay attention enough to what journey their customers go on that you're like, I am five steps ahead of you, and I one know the path you're gonna take, and two, like I will build an email like automated system that just takes you every step of the way.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I also like that like I'm a huge fan of like user-generated content, and so when they send you those pictures, you're like, wonderful, I now have all the marketing copy that I need.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have a notion database of all of the things that people say about my work or how they live with my work from social media or in the store, and it's just like a little button on my top of my notion board that's things people say, and I'll drop them in.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when I get stuck on what to say on social media or email or I'm redoing the website, I go through those and I look for patterns, and that's kind of how I figured out exactly what the customer journey was was through that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really, really helpful because three years ago, 80% of my business was wholesale, so I didn't have that data.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yep.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been very much intentionally shifting that to direct to customer because I would much rather have a direct relationship with the people with my pottery so that it's more than I picked up a mug at this cute little shop when we were traveling to wherever.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, do that, but also um, let's build a relationship together.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because repeat sales would be higher.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like even though your information is probably on the bottom of the mug.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, you're not you're not in the mailing list and they're not yeah, and we do have a lot of people who will find us from the stamp brand stamp on the bottom of the mug, which if there are other potters listening and you've got the cute little brand stamp that's super abstract, toss that shit and put your brand name on it because no one knows what those marks are.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's just for my mug is not for other people.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a hunko stamp, and I'm like, I don't know what it is.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yep.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can put that somewhere, but yes, also just very clearly, magically, just put your URL or your name.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just make it easy.
• 33:00
  unknown: Yes.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am all the time in groups on Facebook, secondhand groups, with people asking, Does anybody recognize this mark of this name?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's in the Midwest, I know a lot of them and will answer where I can.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, my friends, just put your brand name on there.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't need them to go on antiques around show to identify it.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's so interesting, like the shift, like it does make sense.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Wholesale you would know this shop can sell X number of mugs, and so obviously, like for this example, like the mugs are selling much more than the incense burners or the plates or something like that, but you don't know what a single person picked up and what their purchase looked like, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it makes sense that you would get a lot more from the direct sales.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of our wholesale customers, like depending on where they are and what their focus is, one of them will sell 100 soap dishes a year, and another one will sell 200 planters a year, and another one only sells mugs, and even if they're on the same block, none of them are carrying overlapping product.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're almost out of time, but I do want to ask you one question, just because, like everything else, you're so strategic and it kind of plays into the wholesale.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: So back when I used to do the wholesale, I would get really sneaky and I'd be like, Okay, what are complementary brands to what I sell?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Go on their website, and I'd be like, Where are they wholesaling?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then I hit up all those wholesale shops because I'm like, we have the same customer, and if that shop is carrying it, then they would also carry my stuff.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: You do something similar, but at uh when you do attend some fairs and shows, you will also hit up those like complimentary shows that I think other people would be like, wait, you're rare?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, you're selling rare.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do all fine art fairs and um it's they were fine.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now that I've paired it back and I'm only doing two or three shows a year outside of my own brick and mortar.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do Witch Fest in Bloomington, Indiana, and then I do fiber festivals because there aren't potters at fiber festivals, but when I was in the fiber world, every single fiber artist I know uses handmade mugs.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or the yarn balls, yeah, the yarn bowls, and I started making drop spindles.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So at the fiber festivals, the drop spindles are the things people come to me for now.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's ceramic, and I partnered with another maker who does maple um spindles in the center, and then I hand forge little hooks for them.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're very lovely and flex, yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just a flex.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And a good friend of mine is a tattoo artist, and she does illustrations for some of them that I then do like an iron oxide transfer that gets fired onto it.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like bunnies chasing each other that'll chase as it spins, or sheep, or they're just so much stinking fun.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, it's an opportunity to get outside of that fine art world because most of my customers are not fine art shoppers.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yet, yet.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're coming to us because they want something handmade or locally made, and knowing from being in the fiber world that there wasn't much that was outside of actual fiber, and I am also a fiber artist, so I'm able to make those tools in a way that they work well because I know how to use them.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I've done product development in that world, so it's been really fun the last couple of years to do that.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I do far more in sales at a fiber festival than I have ever done at a fine art fair.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's it's crazy only because you would think the fine art fair that's where like the people with money would be, and so they would like be spending a lot.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: At a fine art fair, my work is very plain because it's more design-focused and function focused and classic.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want it to be forever in your life as a collection.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where fine art fair pottery tends to be more, each piece is so unique that you're getting the accent.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage people like if you have a kitchen full of my pottery, go to a fine art fair and get the thing that stands out.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Get the thing I'm not gonna make.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Get the statement thing from another artist because you're not gonna have a cupboard full of that artist's work, but you can still have a cupboard full of handmade.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's so cool.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, when you told me that the first time, I was like, there was the little like that like over my head was like the dot dot dot.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, and then the more I thought about it, it's like there's absolutely a crossover, and it is the same audience, and because anybody who likes to slow down with a cup of tea, yep, is probably gonna be doing some sort of handcraft, and like it just all fits.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I always like encourage people, yeah, like where else does your customer go?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Where else will they be?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, um, and can you be there?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and even back to the point you were making about looking for complimentary businesses when you were pitching wholesale.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm choosing to pitch, I don't pitch to places that sell pottery.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't look up do you carry pottery?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, I look, I look up um small coffee shops with local roasters because those people will value a handmade mug, and that's my entry point.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, who are the shops that are close to that coffee shop?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's really you're so you are too clever for your own good.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: But that's why you're so successful.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having this chat.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was amazing.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like you dropped so many wonderful nuggets, and I hope I hope it helps other people like think about their business and just how to have fun.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: But also, like we talked about, you know, like how to not in a manipulative way, but like how do I take my customer in that journey and just show them those opportunities again and again to come back to you know your website and make a purchase that makes you happy, it makes them happy, and just like slowly changes their life a little bit.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly that's it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nice summary.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: If this conversation had you going, okay, how do I build my own version of that?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's my whole job over at FatCap, where we help businesses build brands their audience obsesses over.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: You'll find the link in the show notes, along with everything today's guest brought up.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan, go be weirdly effective.