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Structure with Room to Grow (with Brigitte Flick) · It's All Poetry

• Nicole (00:02) hello, welcome to season six of It's All Poetry. I can't believe we are already on season six. I'm your host, Nicole Claudier. So this season we have decided to focus on what we're calling bitter words. And what we mean when we say bitter words are essentially words that we have a tough relationship with. These are words that have taken on or absorbed the context of our world. in such a way that our trust with the word is a little bit broken. and through the process of looking at these words together and talking to people for whom these words are a big part of what they do in their lives, my hope is that we can start to reclaim them a little bit. By the time we get down to the root, the etymological root of these words, we will not only have a better understanding of the word in a research capacity, but we can also heal our relationship a little bit with the word, and with everything that that word stirs up within us. So for our first episode, we are going to be talking to Bridget Flick about the word structure. You'll hear me introduce Bridget a little bit more when we start our conversation together, but I just want to tell you right at the start that this conversation brought up so much for me. I am a business owner, so I value structure. I have learned to value structure. And also structure can be so confining and rigid and we can be so resistant to the idea of structure that it becomes hard to create anything at all. And I think that's why we have so much trouble with the word to begin with. So by the end of this conversation, I hope that you are able to feel like you can finally create a structure for yourself that is supportive and fluid Without trapping you into something that doesn't fit. Bridget is the perfect person to get into this conversation with, and I'm just so excited for you to witness my experience and to have your own experience as you get to know the word structure a little bit better So before we get started, remember that the best thing you can do to support this podcast is give us a five-star review on Apple or wherever it is that you're listening. This podcast has come to mean a lot to me and to everyone who works on it and all of our guests. and our goal this year is growth, and your review does a lot in helping bring that about. And you know how important reviews are to growing, to small but growing podcasts like ours. So if you could take a minute, it would mean the world. Okay, that's it for my intro. Thank you so much for being here. Let's get started. Nicole (02:51) Hello. Welcome to It's All Poetry, Bridget. I'm so glad you're here. brigitte (02:55) Thank you. I'm very excited and honored to be here. Nicole (02:59) Yeah. for everyone listening, this is actually, and Bridget, I don't know if I told you this, but this is actually the first episode of season six. And this whole season we are focusing on what we've decided to call bitter words, like words that have a bitter taste. They aren't bad. They they aren't brigitte (03:17) Yeah. Nicole (03:18) bad, right? Part of my goal for this is to try to reclaim some of these words or get to know them a bit better, but They're all going to be words that people have a hard time with or difficulty with in some way. So thank you for kicking off this season with us, Bridget. brigitte (03:37) Ooh, I'm I'm excited to be the first one. And also when you told me like the premise of these words that you wanted to do this season, I I just l I love diving into this stuff. So I'm really excited to get into it. Nicole (03:52) Yeah, me too. I've been really excited like for this episode. And I really believe like part of the whole philosophy behind this podcast is that words carry their past lives. And also like their original origin is usually a lot more, I don't know if innocence the right word, but brigitte (04:09) Mm. Nicole (04:10) it just it has this like simplicity to it that it that it no longer has in the way that we use it today. So before we get too deep though, let me tell everybody who you are and why you're here. brigitte (04:22) Mm-hmm. Nicole (04:22) so Bridget Flick is a systems and self-care witch who builds intentional systems for neurodivergent creatives who want to feel proud, be successful, and get shit done. Bridget, can you add to that? What what else do you do? brigitte (04:39) What else do I do? Hmm. Well, I'm a really big Notion nerd. Nicole (04:45) Mm. brigitte (04:46) I love working within Notion. It's really changed things for me, both personally and in my business. And so I love helping other neurodivergent, especially folks kind of get into that and make different like systems and self-care things that helps them out in whatever unique ways they need it. but I'm really focused on my own mental health care and physical health care because I deal with a lot of chronic conditions. So I that's like also a really, really big part of an important part of of my work as well. Nicole (05:28) Yeah. And I'm sure we're going to get into that so much more because our word for today is structure, which I brigitte (05:35) Mm. Nicole (05:36) think a lot of people do struggle with, of course, which is why we chose it. so brigitte (05:41) Yes. Nicole (05:42) I'd love to just start by asking you like what role the word plays for you currently. brigitte (05:51) geez, this word. I'm trying to think like where do I want to start with Nicole (05:56) Yeah. brigitte (05:57) it? it is ha it's hot it's hard. It's a hard word. It's a hard word for me. And it as a late diagnosed neurodivergent person, I was diagnosed in 2021 with ADHD and then just this year with autism. And so in my in my thirties and into my late thirties. and I am very much a person that like I d I don't want structure. I don't want Nicole (06:29) Mm. brigitte (06:29) it. It it sounds like I am the let's call me a rebel, okay? I want to rebel against like everything, right? I want to do things in a way that makes sense to me. And as I learn more about my neurodivergence, it makes a lot more sense why I feel these ways. because society and all of these systems that we live within and these structures that we live within are not built for this. And so I think that like as much as I want to rebel against structure and just have the freedom to do what I want when I want, however, I feel like that day, whatever I feel like, it just is too broad Nicole (07:21) Mm. brigitte (07:23) and that gets overwhelming then with trying to choose things and decide on things. And so it's like I have found that I do need some structure in order to actually mmm what's the word I want to use? I'm just gonna say like live my life successfully. Nicole (07:45) Yeah. brigitte (07:47) I do need structure. Otherwise I'm not getting anywhere. And so when I look back at my life on like pre-diagnosis versus post, where I did and didn't have certain structures in place and where I really, really struggled. And now the more that I know about it, the more that I know about myself and what I need, the better I'm able to kind of utilize structure in a way that works for me. So it's kind of having to have this like balance with it that I both hate and appreciate at the same time. Nicole (08:26) Yeah. Well, and a lot of your work is correct me if I'm wrong, but is building structures, right? Like creating unique structures. Like, do you find that brigitte (08:34) Yes. Nicole (08:35) structures work best? I think there's a difference between like structure built and structure imposed, right? Like structures can be very limiting, but if they're created like for the individual, I imagine they work better. So is that a lot of what you do is like think about the individual person and then build a structure that works best for them. brigitte (08:55) Yes. Yeah. And I I would say like in my work I tend to use the words systems and structure kind of hand in hand. I don't I don't think they're exactly the same, but I think that they are similar and go well together. So I Nicole (09:15) Mm-hmm. brigitte (09:15) kind of think of like the structure as like the structure of like a building. It's that Nicole (09:23) Mm-hmm. brigitte (09:23) like what's inside and what you like build upon and around. And to me, the systems are kind of like what like builds onto that structure and what kind of like keeps that structure in place and going. It's kind of more of the like action-ne pieces of like making it happen. Nicole (09:43) Hm. brigitte (09:45) and then what I've also found with this is that you have to have a good foundation underneath of that structure, otherwise your structure is not gonna hold. And so I think like that's been a really big key piece for me is so if like for me learning about my neurodivergence, learning about how that affects the way that I think, the way that I process things, the way that I work, my energy, my capacity. and like once I have that foundation, Nicole (10:22) Mm. brigitte (10:22) then I can start building a structure upon it. and that's kind of where I like that's the gold and where I help people like find like the I guess connection between those things. Nicole (10:35) Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Like the systems, like the gears and the pulleys and the the trolleys pulling things through the structure. Mm-hmm. brigitte (10:43) Yeah. Cause like i I mean, if you would even think of a simple o example of like, okay, well I'm going to like have this structure of or like system and structure of like planning my week in a paper planner, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to use that paper planner as like my structure, that's gonna be my thing. But if you don't have the like foundation underneath of it, this is where I ran into trouble with all of my past businesses. was that like sure I would get a new planner and I would try to use it, but I didn't have the foundation under it. So even though I had that like structure, it wasn't working. And so I think that it's like there's a lot also like wrapped up that goes along with structure. Nicole (11:30) Mm-hmm. my gosh. The amount of abandoned planners I've had in my life is astronomical. brigitte (11:33) Car Nicole (11:38) okay. So it's fun, it's funny, fun, funny, because I think as adults and as business owners, right, we use structure in a very particular way. but you also mentioned buildings. And like what do you think was was young Bridget's like first understanding of the word structure? Where did you hear it? What did it mean to you? brigitte (11:59) I think I don't know that like particularly it was exactly like hearing the word, but I think like thinking about the concept as I think back in my life. both my parents were in the military and so was my grandpa and we lived with my grandparents until I was in kindergarten. And I could very much see that kind of like regimented structure in especially in the way that like he would operate and like run things. and then also with my mom as well, but I think that that's one of her like really great strengths that helped in our household full of neurodivergent people that, you know, way back then we didn't have all of the education and the resources and everything that awareness and everything that we needed and I did grow up in a very chaotic household. not you know, my parents did the best with what was going on, but I think that like I can look back and see that some of the ways in which things were structured were very I'll say like zero tolerance. Like there wasn't Nicole (13:20) Hm. brigitte (13:20) room for any like nuance. It was like here are the rules and those are the rules and that's Nicole (13:25) Hmm. brigitte (13:26) it. Nicole (13:26) Hmm. brigitte (13:27) And like that was very, very, very hard for me. And so then once I kind of moved out and was on my own and having to manage, you know, my own household, I started to look back and appreciate different like systems and structures that my mom had put in place because it did allow for things to get done and it did really shape. the way that I do things now. and that's really helpful. So like on one hand, I was like, I'm really struggling with these rules, this structure that you've set in place. But on the other hand, hindsight, I see that maybe some of it was a bit strict, but also some of it like really helped things to run as smoothly as they could. Nicole (14:25) Yeah. Yeah. For efficiency's sake, it depends on the goal, right? But it's cool that you've been able to like find a balance. Like it sounds like there was a pendulum swing, right? Like there was like a rejection of structure for a while brigitte (14:39) yeah. Nicole (14:39) in your life, but that you've been able to find a balance is really cool. brigitte (14:43) Yeah, it and it took me a good long while to get here. Yeah, Nicole (14:48) Yeah. brigitte (14:49) like three decades. Nicole (14:52) Yeah. I did not grow up in a very strict household. like my mom's very creative. So it was a very like, Lucy, like sometimes we'll have dinner, sometimes we won't, altogether. You know, like brigitte (15:03) Ha ha ha. Nicole (15:04) we'll eat separately. We were fed. But yeah, it's but the closest comparison I have was as like a creative writing student. I remember being a young creative writing student and being like, I am never gonna. Try to force a rhyme or like follow a structure or like write a sonnet or like I was very against forms, like poetic forms. and then I had a very excellent teacher who's been on the podcast before, actually last season, Jim Peterson, and he taught me that like, there you can when you're trying to rhyme, you'll like come up with words that you never would have thought of otherwise because of the structure. Like the structure forces you to think differently. to try to find brigitte (15:44) Yes. Nicole (15:44) new words, find a rhythm, right? Like you, you can't just write whatever, whatever you want, which actually makes room for more creativity. And that kind of brigitte (15:53) Yes. Nicole (15:53) blew my mind a bit. brigitte (15:55) my God. Yeah. I went to a and I've talked about this on podcasts before, but it's like highly shaped the way that I think about things now. but I went to a creative mornings field trip Nicole (16:06) Mm. brigitte (16:07) with Christine Garvey of a Mighty Practice, and she talks about enabling constraints within Nicole (16:15) Hm. brigitte (16:15) an artistic practice. So that's what she calls them. But it is that it's setting up that structure. So that you have, say, these like three rules or guidelines to follow. And then that allows you to show up and create. Cause it was under this thing of like, well, what to do when you don't like have any ideas, like how to generate ideas or like to be able to create something. And I just thought, like, I think once I saw it in that light, I was like, that is absolutely brilliant. I can definitely see where this structure is actually. benefiting and like opening up the creativity and the possibilities. Yeah. That was mind blowing. Yeah. Nicole (16:54) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It really changes things. Cause when tr when you're just told to follow a structure but not really told why or what that allows, besides brigitte (17:03) Mm-hmm. Nicole (17:05) like efficiency, yeah, it can feel like you want to rebel against it. But when you like understand, brigitte (17:11) Yes. Nicole (17:11) like, like I can actually be more creative here, it feels fun and exciting and a challenge. Yeah. brigitte (17:16) Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think like that's that's so much like ingrained in my work and like how I want to like help people to like kind of like see and realize that like for themselves. Nicole (17:29) Yeah. Okay, let's start to look at the definitions if you're ready. Yay! brigitte (17:34) Yes, let's Nicole (17:35) Okay, so the way we do this is we'll look at modern definitions from Merriam-Webster. and then we'll go back through time and look at how the definition has changed over time and work our way all the way back to the etymology and the root of the word. so modern definition is number one, and it's a it's noun and verb, so we'll look at both. But we have the act, the action of building, construction, or something that is constructed as the building. So that's kind of cool, is that the action of building to form a structure, and then also the building that is constructed are the same words. we also have the manner of construction, like the makeup of it or the kind of construction, such as like gothic in structure. So it's a very brigitte (18:26) Mm. Nicole (18:26) category of structure. And also, if we get out of buildings, we have the arrangement of particles or parts in a substance or body, such as the soil structure or a molecular structure. Mm-hmm. brigitte (18:39) Ooh, okay. Nicole (18:42) Yeah. And then we can get into like society and the structures of our. Nicole (18:47) economics and our personalities Nicole (18:50) and then also the coherent form or organization, such as tried to give some structure to the children's lives. And then the last brigitte (19:00) Mm. Nicole (19:00) thing here is the structure of a language. did anything in there like stand out to you as something that was unexpected or something that felt really true? brigitte (19:12) Really liked the soil structure or like molecular structure. I think that I wasn't thinking about those as I was, you know, thinking about this word when we decided it. So that felt kind of delightful. one of my really good friends is an organic chemist, and so it just made me think of her. I think chemistry is. fascinating and I think that it was like really cool to make that connection in my brain to like, that kind of structure and like the other structures that like I see when I am thinking about it and like what we talked about with like the building structure. and also the I think it was that last one with like bringing structure to the children's lives or whatever that was. I Nicole (20:03) Mm yeah. brigitte (20:04) yeah, I think So so sometimes I I have this thing where I feel like I like internally like feel information and I have a really hard time then articulating it outward. And I think as I like am thinking about all of these different little structured nuances, I like feel that. I'm feeling it all in my body and I'm like, wow, how do I even make words? Nicole (20:37) Hm. brigitte (20:38) To describe like I think the vastness of it. That it's Nicole (20:43) Yeah. brigitte (20:43) like it's everywhere. I don't Nicole (20:46) Yeah. And that the like what I hear in what you're saying too and in the definitions is like this more like zoomed in version of structure of like our molecular makeup, our molecular structure is so important when considering the outside structures that we create for ourselves. Right. We can brigitte (21:03) Mm. Mm-hmm. Nicole (21:06) and maybe that's goes back to the foundations you were talking about of like you have to look at the molecular structure or the personality structure. brigitte (21:13) Yeah. Nicole (21:16) Of yourself, like to to make a structure that works, which is why I think it makes me think of where we see online so much, maybe more so like a few years ago than now. but like here's like so and so's morning routine. And like you try brigitte (21:30) Yes. Nicole (21:31) to follow this like perfect morning routine of this writer that got up every morning at 4 a.m. and like wrote for hours, or or even that saying, like, Beyonce has the same 24 hours, you know, as everyone else. And it's like, well, not exactly. brigitte (21:43) Not exactly. Nicole (21:46) Yeah. I think that we try to force ourselves into these structures that aren't ours and like don't take into consideration our makeup. Nicole (21:54) So yeah, I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on that because I'm sure you deal with that a lot. Like people have tried to force themselves into these structures. brigitte (22:01) Yes. And I mean, I have tried to force myself into these structures and I've also, I think this is really interesting, discovered that the the more that I've done that, the further away from myself I have gotten and also I will notice it a lot when I like when my depression is amping up. and I find that really interesting if I kind of like really look at how I'm feeling. Nicole (22:30) Yeah. brigitte (22:31) It's like I'm comparing myself to these things that like I think that like I should be doing life in this way, according to like what I'm seeing from other people or societal expectations. And I'm like, isn't that fascinating that Nicole (22:46) Mm. brigitte (22:47) like it is affecting me on like such a deep level? And yeah, I think that like as far as using another person's kind of like structure or like, you know, trying their morning routine or whatever the habit or thing is that you're trying to do. I think that like if you can look at it as like a starting off point of like, can I get curious about this? Can I let it just be like the first step and try it out and see what happens and then kind of like restructure it Nicole (23:31) Yeah. brigitte (23:32) to like better fit me and my energy and my capacity. I think that like that's where that can be like golden. But I think just taking something and being like, I'm gonna do this exact routine and then getting frustrated when it's not working. Nicole (23:50) Hm. brigitte (23:51) I think like that's where it gets tough. But it's a lot of like I think there's a lot of just going in and being like, I want a quick and fast and easy answer. I want like someone to tell me how to do this thing so that I can, you know, not have my like struggle anymore. But that's not like I I don't think there is a fast and easy answer. I think it's just like building, you know, more of like a connection with Nicole (24:19) Mm. brigitte (24:20) yourself and being more open to like yeah, connecting with yourself in that way. Restructure Nicole (24:26) Yeah. brigitte (24:27) that word when that popped in, that was I was like, whoa. Nicole (24:30) Yeah. Yeah. Taking an existing structure and restructuring it. brigitte (24:35) Yeah. Nicole (24:36) And restructuring it for yourself. Like I have so many routines that I have that are not the same as they were when I started. And it felt so good. And it's it's easy, I think, to judge yourself for like, I'm not doing this perfectly, so I'm just not gonna do it at all. brigitte (24:52) Mm. Nicole (24:53) and I was just talking to this about this to someone the other day about their newsletter, right? Like and they're feel like they have to choose like for the newsletter they send like a specific structure and like stick to it for the next ten years and like always brigitte (25:04) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nicole (25:06) follow the same structure for their newsletter. And I'm like, mine looks nothing like it did three years ago. Like I used to have all these sections that I don't have anymore and and it's really okay. It's really okay to do that. Yeah. brigitte (25:16) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like ooh, yeah. I think also there is a maybe kind of a grief in Nicole (25:28) Mm. brigitte (25:29) letting go of like a structure that we have tried to like hold on to or tried to like make work. And even if it's not working, but like I know I've gone into things and it's like, I think this is gonna be the thing. This is gonna be the thing to work, and like I do it for a while, maybe it does work for a while, and then maybe it needs to change, or maybe I need to let go of it, and I that is like change is a really hard thing for me, even if I know I need to let go of it. So I think just leaving room for that in like part of the process. Nicole (26:04) Hmm. Yeah. I think it's incredibly important. I want to talk about synonyms because this was one of my favorite parts of the research for this word. And that's not always the case, right? But the synonyms for structure are amazing. And I just taught, I just talked them brigitte (26:18) Okay. Nicole (26:19) up, but I really think you're gonna love them. Okay. So brigitte (26:22) I'm ready. Nicole (26:23) we have the ones that are expected. We won't talk about these too much, right? Like building complex, even monolith we have in here. brigitte (26:31) Hm. Nicole (26:32) but some of the ones that came up. were fabric. Mm-hmm. Music. cosmos. And mythos. brigitte (26:48) Okay. Nicole (26:49) Yeah. So very like big, like fully zoomed out words, it feels like. brigitte (26:57) Yeah, like if you're thinking of like like the f I this phrase is in my head, like the fabric of society. I'm like, what does this even mean? Like, but it's in here, it's in my head. I don't know. but yeah, Nicole (27:04) Yeah. Yeah. brigitte (27:08) that like what were the other ones? Nicole (27:11) Music? brigitte (27:12) Okay. Nicole (27:14) Cosmos, mythos, essence. Mythos is like brigitte (27:19) What's mytho what's mythos? Nicole (27:21) like Stephen Fry has a book called Mythos, and it's about like the pantheon of Greek gods. So it's like the structure, the hierarchy, the structure of a mythology. Yeah. Yeah. brigitte (27:26) Okay, okay. Okay. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Nicole (27:35) and of course, skeleton we have in here, the structure of the body, brigitte (27:37) Ooh. Nicole (27:39) zigguret. Which is Mesopotamian. It's like a pyramid in Mesopotamia, like a temple kind of structure. brigitte (27:44) Okay. Nicole (27:46) Mm-hmm. and then the shape, of course. And then manipulate, which manipulate is another word we're going to talk about this season because it's a d difficult one, right? brigitte (27:57) Ooh. Nicole (27:59) but manipulate is interesting too because you're it's like the verb of structuring, right? Like actually building the structure of something. Yeah. brigitte (28:06) Yes. Yes. Nicole (28:08) Yeah. brigitte (28:09) Yeah. Wow, there's so there's so much in all of these. Nicole (28:12) I know. What do you think of like cosmos and mythos, like these big ones? brigitte (28:18) Mm. I love that. I it makes me think of this book that my dad got for me. And I would I used to use it to prop my laptop up, but now I've just got my laptop up on a yoga block, and I think that book Nicole (28:31) Mm. brigitte (28:32) is downstairs. But it is called the quadrivium. And I know it's like mathematics, geometry, the cosmos, something else. and I i my dad's a really big nerd. I'm a really big nerd. I have a degree in math. Nicole (28:51) Mm. brigitte (28:53) and I just wow. I think like, my God, the connections in all of these things is wild to me to think of like the structure of like the cosmos and space. And I just recently read You Were Born for This by Chani Nicholas. And I I've I've had the book for years, and I think astrology tends to I have a hard time grasping it all, really. and so I think it took me a while to get to a place where I was ready for it, and I read it and I was like, holy shit, this stuff is actually making sense now. But I think like the structure in all of that, right? And it blows my mind how it's like these planets and stars and everything are like in our sky and our solar system and we're on a planet that is just moving around and Nicole (29:52) Mm. brigitte (29:53) we're just tiny things on this huge structure that is within this huge structure. Nicole (30:01) Yes. I know. I guess think about it too much and it's but yeah, brigitte (30:09) Ha ha ha. Nicole (30:09) astrology is so complex. I think Channy helped me realize that too. Cause when I was a child, it was like, what's your sun sign? Like this brigitte (30:16) Yeah, yeah. Nicole (30:17) is, you know, and then we're like, wow, you you learn more. And it's like, wow, this is so such a complex structure. but yeah, I I just really I love how we're like building in my mind these like concentric circles of like the cosmos structure and then all the way down to the molecular structure. And and really like when we talk about it this way, structure feels so necessary to like hold us in so that we're not just brigitte (30:40) Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nicole (30:43) like floating in chaos. brigitte (30:45) Right. Well like a skeleton. We need that. Yeah. Nicole (30:47) Mm-hmm. Yeah, we definitely need that. Yeah. Yeah, whether it's inside or exo. But yes. brigitte (30:56) Wow. Nicole (30:57) yeah. Cool. brigitte (30:59) I think that this feels extra interesting to me as a we're like, okay, let's pick a word that is like kind of challenging. And I'm like, okay, yeah, structure, like it's been really challenging for me. But then thinking about it in all of these different like ways and concepts, it's like, I think it's helping to kind of like take that I guess the icky, like, what's the word? Not like strangling, but like Kind of the like tight feeling off of it. Restricting, that's the word. Yes. Yeah. Nicole (31:33) Yeah. Restricting. Perfect. Yes. That's the word. Yeah, absolutely. it it feels more like there's a way that structure can feel this word feels weird that is coming to my mind, but like like a cradle, like like supportive. brigitte (31:48) Hmm. Uh-huh, huh. Nicole (31:52) yeah. but let's let's keep going back in time. Let's look at 1828. It's like when we look at this definition, it's important to keep in mind the time. We pull this from the the Webster dictionary, which like the whole purpose of this dictionary was that Webster was trying to be like, we are different from England. We are the United States, you know? So we always want to keep that in mind. He's like got an agenda as he writes these definitions. so let's look at some of them and see what it meant then. So our first one is the act of building or the practice of erecting buildings. And the example it gives is his son builds on and never is content till the last farthing is in structure spent. Yeah. I know. brigitte (32:38) Whoa. Wow. There's a lot it wrapped up in that. My goodness. Okay. Nicole (32:43) I know, yeah. Yeah. and then we get to manner of building. So the form make construction as the want of insight into the structure and constitution of the terraqueous globe. Yeah. And terraqueous, we did look this up because I was like, I don't know what that means. it means, do you know what it means? brigitte (33:08) No. Okay. No. Nicole (33:08) Okay. I was like, I I was like, I've never heard this one before. It's spelled, well, it's spelled like Terra, T-E-R-R-A, Q brigitte (33:14) Okay, yeah. Like Earth. Nicole (33:16) E O U S. Yeah, like Earth. and it means consisting of or formed by both land and water. So the constitution of the terraqueous globe. That's pretty brigitte (33:30) Okay. Nicole (33:30) cool. It's very poetic if you think about it. brigitte (33:32) Yeah. Nicole (33:34) they also have the manner of organization of animals and vegetables. brigitte (33:38) okay. Nicole (33:38) Yeah, so more of that farm definition that we've kind of lost in the modern. a building of any kind, but chiefly a building of some size or magnificence, an edifice. Like there stands a structure of majestic frame. mm-hmm. Yes, structure is brigitte (33:56) Wow, okay. It has to be some like big thing. Mm-hmm. Huh. Nicole (34:03) magnificent. brigitte (34:04) Okay. Nicole (34:05) Yes. And then the last one, and then we can chat about these, is in mini mineralogy. Mineurology? Yeah. In particular, arrangement of the integrant particles or molecules of a mineral. brigitte (34:18) Okay. Nicole (34:19) So those are the definitions in 1828. We can see some changing of times. yeah. Does anything stand out to you when those definitions are feel unique or troublesome or interesting to you? brigitte (34:31) Troublesome. I think that I think that it's interesting that it feels like there's such an important place an importance placed on the magnitude of a structure. Like that Nicole (34:44) Yeah. brigitte (34:45) it's n would you not consider it a structure if it were, say, small, or you would then say it's what insignificant? Like Nicole (34:56) Yeah. brigitte (34:56) that's very interesting to me. Nicole (35:00) Yeah. No, there's definitely a focus on like grandness in all of these definitions, right? brigitte (35:05) Yeah. Nicole (35:06) like it's as a building of any kind, but chiefly of some size brigitte (35:09) Mm-hmm. Nicole (35:10) or magnificence. yeah. brigitte (35:14) Right. So like that's a structure, but like mmm, that's you know, not really like a structure worth paying attention to. Nicole (35:21) Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. brigitte (35:24) Thanks, I hate it. Nicole (35:27) Yeah, it feels to me like that restriction is is like coming back, right? Like the restriction brigitte (35:29) Yeah. Yeah. Nicole (35:31) is tightening again. We got to cosmos brigitte (35:33) Yes. Nicole (35:34) and now it's like, ugh, but now it like has to be magnificent. Like that's a lot of pressure. brigitte (35:39) That is a lot of pressure. Yeah. And that's like, I think too, like this is something that comes up in my work as like Nicole (35:47) Mm. brigitte (35:50) sometimes we get into this headspace of like, I need this big complicated Nicole (35:55) Mm. brigitte (35:56) grandiose like system or structure to like do this thing with. And then we get to like down to the bottom of like what it actually is that you need or what it actually is that you want to do and how you operate and a more simple structure is actually going to be like the most beneficial to help you do the thing. And it's like we will just like overcomplicate things. And then it gets too overwhelming and too much to handle. And we think that we need to do so much. Speaking for myself, I am like all or nothing. I'm like big, big, big Aries son. Here I come. Nicole (36:44) Yeah. brigitte (36:45) and it's like just learning how to like slow down and pair back and do like the minimum. To me was like an extraordinary idea of like, I don't have to do the most. But I didn't Nicole (36:59) Mm. brigitte (36:59) realize I was doing the most. But I think that that's like kind of what I help other people with is like realizing how much like less you can do and how much more you get out of it then. Nicole (37:13) Yeah. Yeah, because trying to make your structure big and magnificent, it's like perfectionism we know, like stops us from doing anything. Like brigitte (37:22) Yeah, yes, yes. Nicole (37:24) if this has to be a perfect magnificent structure, then I'm probably not gonna do it. And then like brigitte (37:28) Yes. Nicole (37:29) I get no results. brigitte (37:30) Absolutely. Yeah. When I learned the phrase done is better than perfect, like, wow, that was fantastic. But I think Nicole (37:38) Yeah, yeah. brigitte (37:40) like so interesting, like forcing a definition of like grandeur for people to follow. Nicole (37:52) Yes. Well, we are we are reclaiming it. Let's remind people that this also means Cosmos. You brigitte (37:56) Yes. Nicole (37:57) do not have to I mean Cosmos is grand. I mean we're gonna get magnificent grand as Cosmos. But also very brigitte (38:02) Yes. Nicole (38:02) like, you know, perfectly imperfect and experimental. brigitte (38:07) Yes. Nicole (38:08) Yeah. okay, let's keep walking backwards through time. So just a couple like milestones to point out is in nineteen six sixty one is when it was first used. In linguistics, like the structure of a language, it was started to be used in that way. in 1746 is when we first see it used for literary works, such as a structure of a poem. brigitte (38:33) Mm. Nicole (38:34) In the late 1600s, it really broadens, right? So as we go back in time, it's anything that's put together. So in 1610, we have the frame or character of an organization. that which is built, an arrangement of parts. We still have that like especially something that is large or imposing. brigitte (38:55) Mm. Nicole (38:55) We get that like monument energy to it. brigitte (38:59) Okay. Nicole (39:00) but going back further, mid 1400s, it means like the process of building or building materials themselves, which are both kind of obsolete now, the process of building and building materials. brigitte (39:18) Mm-hmm. Nicole (39:19) So I don't know what that means if it would be like what we call like a pile of wooden planks or bricks structure. I think kind of. I think that's what it's implying. Yeah. brigitte (39:28) I think so. I think so. That's how that's how I'm feeling it. Nicole (39:32) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I yeah. brigitte (39:36) Yeah, I think it's I I think it's interesting the yeah, the like largeness in it. But Nicole (39:42) Mm-hmm. brigitte (39:43) then as we're thinking of like the structure of the cosmos, is that's a large vast thing. But I think Nicole (39:49) Mm. brigitte (39:49) because that is a large, vast thing. And then if you think of like the molecular structure, that's a very small thing. But Nicole (39:59) Mm. brigitte (40:00) it's also large because it that's the building block for like everything. Nicole (40:06) Mm-hmm. brigitte (40:06) So it's small in size, large in concept, Nicole (40:10) Ooh, yeah. brigitte (40:12) perhaps. Nicole (40:13) Yeah, enlarge and like impact. brigitte (40:15) Yeah. Nicole (40:16) Yeah. Small but mighty. brigitte (40:19) Yeah. Nicole (40:21) if we go back to the Latin, so we're gonna look at the Latin root and then also the pi root or the Proto-Indo-European root. So in Latin, it's structura is a fitting together, an adjustment, a way of building, and figuratively it is arrangement or order of things. And this comes brigitte (40:39) Mm-hmm. Nicole (40:40) from the Latin struc sorry, I'm saying it wrong. Structus, which is the past participle of strutere, which is simply to pile, to heap up, to assemble, to arrange, or to make by joining things together. Yeah. Yeah. brigitte (40:55) Mm. I like I like those. Yeah. Nicole (41:00) and it's related to struis, struis, which is simply a heap. brigitte (41:05) Okay. Nicole (41:08) which is fun because once you get to like words like to pile, to heap a heap of brigitte (41:12) Mm-hmm. Nicole (41:13) things, it feels like so much less perfect and less like magnificent. Like it mm-hmm like brigitte (41:19) Yeah, yeah. Less pressure, yeah. It's just wow, yeah. Nicole (41:24) Yeah. brigitte (41:25) The structure of a pile or a heap, like I love that. Yes, I think so. Nicole (41:29) Yeah. And sometimes I think that's what we need. Just like brigitte (41:35) I think so. Nicole (41:36) Yeah. Like I have to pile up the laundry before I can put it away. brigitte (41:43) Yeah. my gosh, yeah. The structure Nicole (41:44) Yeah. brigitte (41:47) of my dirty clothes basket? That there's structure in that. Nicole (41:52) Yeah. Do you think there's useful structure in that? brigitte (41:56) I think so. And I think that I think that we could tie that into like your structure or system for doing laundry, right? Dependent Nicole (42:12) Mm-hmm. brigitte (42:13) on your unique, you know, needs and capacity and energy, right? Like your laundry Nicole (42:19) Yeah. brigitte (42:20) process or framework could be quite different than mine. Nicole (42:25) Hm. brigitte (42:26) And so the structure of our laundry piles could be very different and very purposeful in different ways. And that's fascinating to think about. Nicole (42:35) Yeah, yeah. I know I had to get myself a laundry steamer because I'm so bad at like hanging up my laundry before it starts to wrinkle. Mm-hmm. But then I got the steamer and I was like, it's okay. no big deal. Yeah. brigitte (42:47) I that hell yeah, steamer's great. Nicole (42:56) yeah, I highly recommend a streamer steamer to everyone. I got like one of those stand-up ones from like Macy's. It's great. I just like hang my brigitte (43:01) Ooh, the y Nicole (43:02) clothes. brigitte (43:03) you know what that just made me think of? Like Nicole (43:05) What? brigitte (43:05) I wanna say like going back to the word fabric in there, but like thinking of like a structured like suit or like pant and Nicole (43:14) Hm. brigitte (43:14) thinking of like I guess like what picture like that invokes in my head of like you know, like structured lines or Nicole (43:22) Mm. brigitte (43:24) yeah. Nicole (43:26) Structured threads. Yeah, I love it. the Proto-Indo-Indo-European root, which is kind of a made-up language, it's just like from tracing European languages back as far as we can and finding the comparisons. But the Proto-Indo-European root is stera, which is just to spread. Hm. It's kinda like heap. brigitte (43:54) Okay. Nicole (43:55) But a little bit more flat than heap, a bit less like definition. brigitte (44:00) Yeah, that's I mean it's making me think of I had a bagel with almond butter and honey on it this morning and I had to spread that almond butter. So I'm trying to think of that as like a like applying structure as I see it to Nicole (44:14) Mm. brigitte (44:14) the spread. Nicole (44:17) Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think w kind of what I'm feeling too is that like as far as the way we use structure now and Is that it like as we get further, further back, it's it's less rigid, right? It's it's brigitte (44:34) Mm-hmm. Nicole (44:35) it's not chaos, right? But there's some chaos still there. Like there's chaos in a heap, there's chaos in a spread. And I I think for me, I guess I can speak personally, like good structure does feel like that. Like it has some room for chaos and room for experimentation brigitte (44:49) Mm, mm-hmm. Nicole (44:50) is a pretty big experimentation is a pretty big value of mine in general. And just like I feel like if you If you feel like a struct a structure is imposing or rigid, it makes that a lot harder. brigitte (45:04) Yes. Yeah. Experimentation is a big part of my work as well. And like curiosity and that, in my work I call it refining, but in this conversation I said restructuring, which was like a that was wild Nicole (45:16) Yeah. brigitte (45:19) that that popped in. but that's like an important part of what I do as well, is like leaving room for that. Like you're leaving room for living, you're leaving room for life, you know? Like we don't know what's gonna happen or maybe you know like how your energy is going to feel any given day, any given hour. And so having that like structure that has that built in, right? That room for that like chaos or unpredictability or experimentation, like knowing that that is part of it, I think is important. And I and I think that that's like, you know, going back to my childhood. thing of like zero tolerance rules and really like rebelling against that. Well if you have like a hard and fast rule, it's too, yeah, it's too strict, it's too rigid. If you're like, if your structure is so like oof, that made me think of, you know, like trees blowing in the wind. Nicole (46:20) Hm. brigitte (46:21) And if it was too like rigid, it could just snap, you know? Nicole (46:27) Yeah. brigitte (46:28) But you want that like depending on, I guess, the kind of structure it is, I'll say with our businesses and things like that. We we want it to be flexible enough to to move with us, to grow with us, to expand with us, to, you know, work in different creative ways, but not like too loose that it's not enough for us, and not too rigid that it's like too containing. Nicole (46:57) Yeah. Well, and even really tall buildings are built to sway, right? brigitte (47:01) Yeah. Nicole (47:01) I'm not an architect, but I feel like I feel like some of the early skycraper skyscrapers like used to break. Like brigitte (47:07) Yeah. Nicole (47:08) they would like drop bricks on the on the sidewalk. I I think brigitte (47:10) Ha ha Nicole (47:11) that's true. I'll have to fac fact check that. but yeah. And also I kind of feel like I want to say, like for the building thing, like just to say to people, like your your life is not a building. Like structure and it does structure at its root, it doesn't have to mean like I feel like building is what we most commonly think of when we think structure and but I don't think like a structure building feels like it has to be built and it has to work immediately and it has to like not break because people are inside. but like your your life, your business, like it it can kind of bend and break and tweak and yeah. Yeah. brigitte (47:51) Ooh, that just it well, it brought me like thinking about a tree and then from earlier the like soil structure. Well, Nicole (47:58) Hm. brigitte (47:59) what if you think about like a root structure? Nicole (48:01) Mm-hmm. brigitte (48:03) and if you think about, you know, like when you're gardening, or if you're if you dig something out and you essentially break those roots and then replant, those roots are going to grow in different ways. Nicole (48:16) Mm. brigitte (48:17) So it's kind of like that. you know, Nicole (48:19) Yeah. brigitte (48:20) thinking about structure in that way, right? Like maybe we need to cut off this part of the structure in order to like let this plant grow in different ways. Nicole (48:31) Yeah, and and put it in bigger pots as it does brigitte (48:34) Yeah. Nicole (48:35) grow. So the root structure can expand. Yeah, I love that. I feel like that's a better metaphor for how I want to structure the way I work and live. Yeah. brigitte (48:43) Yes, same. Yeah. Nicole (48:47) okay, coming from the Proto-Indo-European root, we do have some cousin words that share a root, and these are always fun to look at. we have you'll see the pattern here. Construct, brigitte (48:58) Okay. Nicole (48:59) construct. Destruct, instruct, obstruct, brigitte (49:03) Wow. Nicole (49:04) right? All these like struct, like that's the coming from that brigitte (49:07) Okay. Yeah. Nicole (49:09) struce root. which is funny, like my my researcher, he wrote a note here where he said, like most of the time people think they're instructing when really they're obstructing. You know what I mean? Which I thought was great. But yeah, like they all have the same route, and I think, but they they can oppose each other in some ways too. Like obstruct is maybe when we look at the shadow side of structure, it's obstructing us from from getting something or achieving something. And then destruct to restructure. Destruction. we also have stray. to move away from. Interesting. an instrument shares a root, which brings back kind of that music synonym and the structure of music. and then strawberries here, which I don't have any more details on, and I wish I did. Yes. brigitte (50:13) Strawberries. Nicole (50:15) wait, I do have more details. Okay. that which is strewn. So I guess if we think about it being to spread like one of those roots. Because strawberries, wild strawberries, have you ever seen them? brigitte (50:26) I don't know. Nicole (50:27) They're we used to have them in in Connecticut and they were just like spread across the lawn, wild strawberries. Like they were impossible brigitte (50:32) Mm. Nicole (50:33) to control. They're just like spread. Spreading across the whole ground and you get these little, like tiny little native strawberries. brigitte (50:43) you eat them? wow. of course. Of course they did. Nicole (50:44) Yeah. Usu usually the squirrels got them first, but yes. Yeah. brigitte (50:51) I I thought of something after you said instrument and Nicole (50:53) Yeah. Mm-hmm. brigitte (50:55) music, but then I also thought of the word instrument in a way of like an instrument that you would use to build a structure with. So not necessarily a musical instrument, but also like Other instruments for building? Like, my god, I well like wow. I guess if you wanted to call like say Notion an instrument Nicole (51:19) Mm. brigitte (51:21) for building systems. Nicole (51:22) Hundred percent, yeah. brigitte (51:25) huh. Nicole (51:27) Yeah. I love that. Well and it kinda we had that early definition or the Latin, right? Which or the the meaning that's no longer used where structure was actually the tools as well as the structure brigitte (51:40) Mm-hmm. Nicole (51:40) itself. So I think it like you're hearkening back to that as well. brigitte (51:46) Yeah. I love this. Yeah, well Nicole (51:48) I love Notion. brigitte (51:50) I l yeah, I love notion, but also like I love nerding out on like on these words. Nicole (51:56) Yeah. For for those if you could see us on video we're just like, hmm, like with our fingers on our brigitte (52:00) Ha ha Nicole (52:01) chins the whole time. Interesting. brigitte (52:03) It's just you know, like so many connections, so many things to think about. I'm gonna be thinking about this all day long. Nicole (52:09) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. a few other cousin words that are really cool. I'm like sticking on this for a while because there's so many great ones. sternum. Yeah. That's it's brigitte (52:20) specifically, like specifically the sternum and not Nicole (52:23) The sternum. brigitte (52:24) like the whole skeletal structure, like Nicole (52:29) Yeah, sternum is the one that shares the the Proto Indo European root. Yeah. It's brigitte (52:31) The Wow. Nicole (52:33) 'cause it's got that stir, which is the to spread. So it's literally like the brigitte (52:37) okay. Nicole (52:38) flat spread out bone that holds your ribcage together. brigitte (52:42) Huh. I wonder if like that makes me think if like way back then if it was like if that was seen as kind of like the center or like the origin part of the like skeleton. Nicole (52:54) Mm. Yeah, I mean it's definitely holding very important organs. brigitte (53:01) Yeah, and that is I mean, that's your the area of like your solar plexus, which is your Nicole (53:06) Mm-hmm. brigitte (53:06) like personal power center. Interesting. Nicole (53:12) Yeah. I like that. Yeah, it's like the it's your own structure starting at the center of your chest and like brigitte (53:17) Yeah. Nicole (53:21) we also get strategy, brigitte (53:24) Okay. Nicole (53:25) which is like from Greek Stratos, which is an army spread out in formation. Yeah. and then the last one I'll say is street. So we get Latin, it's from Latin we get strata. So the spread out road, the spread w road. Yeah. brigitte (53:46) Okay. So that's so this is where like the s the spreading is coming from, which is making more sense. Yeah. Okay. Nicole (53:51) Yeah, 'cause these are all cousins from that. Yes. Yeah. brigitte (53:54) That I think having this context now makes the spread make more sense in my brain, 'cause all I could see was like spread and butter with a knife. Nicole (54:03) Ha ha. brigitte (54:04) but now this now this makes more sense. Nicole (54:07) Yeah, spread. I think like the strewn strawberries was a good image. Like just kind of str like I'm imagining just like throwing something and they they land in a particular way. brigitte (54:16) In a heap. Nicole (54:17) In a heap. Yeah. okay. So our last segment is we're gonna look at a couple quotes that have the word structure in them, and then we're just gonna see how they make us feel and chat about it. So the first one is from our beloved. Julia Cameron, the Artist Way, the author of The Artist Way, which is a structure that a lot of people attempt to follow with varying degrees of success. brigitte (54:43) Can I tell you my god, can I yes, can I before we get into this, I just Nicole (54:47) Yes. brigitte (54:48) wanna say that in 2020 my aunt gifted me the artist's way and it had been on my radar for so many years and I was like, okay, now is the time. And I started getting into it and I was like, this is a 12 week program. I was like, fuck that. I'm just gonna blast through it. Like, I don't have time for this. And then I started getting into it and I quickly realized, no, this is a twelve-week program. You're not blasting through this if you're actually like doing the work. And then I did the work and it fucking changed my life. So I was like, okay, great. That was a big lesson in me trying to rebel against Nicole (55:29) Mm. brigitte (55:31) that structure and then giving into the structure and finding how beneficial it was. Nicole (55:38) Yeah. Yeah. I actually have never finished The Artist Way. I've started a few brigitte (55:40) Uh-huh. Nicole (55:43) times, but I've never yeah. I know. But that story you just told made me feel like I should maybe give it another go. I've done morning pages, like I've done things from it. But I've never done the whole the whole program. brigitte (55:56) That was like the morning pages was the thing that allowed me to now write. I couldn't write before that. I couldn't even I couldn't journal. I couldn't Nicole (56:05) Mm. brigitte (56:06) brain dump. I couldn't free write. Like I had so much wrapped up in what writing had to look like. Nicole (56:12) Mm. brigitte (56:13) And that was the thing that like freed me. So I'm Nicole (56:17) Yeah, that's amazing. brigitte (56:19) yeah, I'm f forever on board with that. Yes. Nicole (56:23) Great gift. okay, well let's see her quote on structure. I think you'll like it then. In limits, there is freedom. Creativity thrives within structure, creating safe havens where our children are allowed to dream, play, make a mess, and yes, clean it up. We teach them respect for themselves and others. brigitte (56:46) Mm. I like that respect bit in there. Yeah. Nicole (56:50) Mm-hmm. Yeah. brigitte (56:53) that very much makes me think of like the Marie Kondo giving like I I think in her work what really stood out to me in her the structure that she, you know, gives for interacting with the items in your home. Say like you would take off your pants at night and you would fold them up and like give them gratitude for what they gave you during that day. And I think that like respect part of it is like mmm that also has like really informed the way that I think about like structure and systems. is that kind of like yeah, that gratitude, the respect, the reverence. For like what this is providing. mm, yeah. Nicole (57:49) Yeah. I like that you're too it's like respecting the structure is what I'm hearing too, right? Like we teat brigitte (57:56) Mm. Mm-hmm. Nicole (57:59) so like we teach them respect for themselves and others and the structure itself. brigitte (58:04) Yeah, and I th and I think that's part of what helps I maybe like what helps me be okay with the structure or like the structure or like stick with the structure is that like having that like reverence and respect for it and like this is like part of why this works or like part of I guess why I like resonate with it or like want to do it. Nicole (58:33) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like also that in there she has make a mess. Like brigitte (58:40) Yes. Nicole (58:40) yes, clean it up, but like she builds mess into creative brigitte (58:43) Yes. Nicole (58:44) structure. brigitte (58:45) Yeah, love that. Nicole (58:46) Yeah. okay, someone a little different. We don't have to love him as much. this quote is from Samuel Langhorn Clemens, aka Mark Twain, American writer, humorist, and essayist. And he said, What is the most rigorous law of our being? Growth. No small atom of our moral, mental, or physical structure can stand still a year. It grows. It must grow. Nothing can prevent it. brigitte (59:20) Yeah, I think that's speaking to that thing of like not having a super rigid structure, right? Like everything is growing and changing, and we are growing and changing. And like we were saying earlier about like our businesses growing, changing, letting go of things. That's like yeah, a a healthy part of structure. Right. Or the gardening, you know, cut Nicole (59:50) Yeah. brigitte (59:50) you know, cutting things or replant yeah, wow. Nicole (59:53) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's necessary. something new we're doing this season on these bitter words is we have a quote to chat about that represents, I think, the bitter side. The bitter side brigitte (1:00:07) Ooh, okay. Nicole (1:00:08) of the word. So we could we'll react to this one. It's from a Republican congressman from nineteen eighty-five, brigitte (1:00:17) Okay. Nicole (1:00:17) Tom Delay. Yeah. So the quote is, a woman can take care of the family. It takes a man to provide structure, to provide stability. brigitte (1:00:28) You just set me on fire. Nicole (1:00:29) I'm sorry. That was kind of the intent, I suppose, and I apologize. Yes. brigitte (1:00:37) shit. Nicole (1:00:38) I know. brigitte (1:00:39) See, that's the like that's the stuff that like yes, I'm I'm my blood is boiling right now. That is the the fundamental structure that I ha just I it's like when you get magnets and you try to put them together and then they repel each other, it's like that I just can't I just can't. It's not that is so rigid. and confining and not leaving room for nuance and exploration and curiosity and the vastness of life itself. Nicole (1:01:21) Yeah. brigitte (1:01:22) Ugh Nicole (1:01:23) Yep. Yep. It is, it is. And the reason I wanted to share it is to recognize like this is the reason we have trouble with the word because it's used in brigitte (1:01:31) Mm-hmm. Nicole (1:01:32) this way. But what I always want to kind of come back to is it's the the word, the word itself like has important meaning and we can use it well, even if other people have used it badly and tried to like restrict what it means. Cause to me that is such like after everything we've looked at today, brigitte (1:01:48) Mm-hmm. Nicole (1:01:48) like that is such a limited understanding of the brigitte (1:01:52) Yes. Nicole (1:01:52) word and like all that it encompasses for its entire lifespan. and I I think it's it's just it's a misuse. It's a misuse of the word and yeah, it it's bad. brigitte (1:02:06) Yeah. I think yeah, I think it's like it's that like it feels like it's that forcing of a specific like instance or like definition. and that yeah, that definitely is the h the hard side of of structure is when you use it in that way to like Nicole (1:02:29) Hm, yeah. And brigitte (1:02:30) force Yeah, to f to force people into certain structures and this that goes back to what I was talking about with like my depression and just noticing how much of it can be attributed to literally to that, to that sentiment. Ugh. Nicole (1:02:45) Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Let's have a palate cleanser before we wrap up. Mark brigitte (1:02:51) Yes, please. Nicole (1:02:53) Margaret Atwood, a quote from Margaret Atwood, Canadian novelist and poet. when any civilization is dust and ashes, he said, art is all that's left over. Images, words, music, imaginative structures. Meaning, human meaning, that is, is defined by them. You have to admit that. brigitte (1:03:15) That gave me chills. yeah, like as we Nicole (1:03:20) Yeah, what did you love? brigitte (1:03:21) like the just the thing of like picturing us like human civilization as dust and then whoever whatever comes on after us, like if we think about studying things from the past and you know, right, that that's what we're studying. We're studying the art, we're studying the depictions of of how people felt and what they felt was important to to to document in these ways. And like as an artist and as a person who helps other artistic people, I just I think that that's so that this makes it feel like so much more important. Nicole (1:04:07) Hm. brigitte (1:04:08) I think. Nicole (1:04:09) Yeah. I mean I the the word imaginative, like imaginative structures. I just love I love that. Like that phrase brigitte (1:04:16) Yeah. Nicole (1:04:17) on its own. Yeah. okay. Yes, I would love to. Yes. brigitte (1:04:21) Can you can you just read that one one more time? Thanks. Nicole (1:04:25) When any civilization is dust and ashes, he said. Art is all that's left over. Images, words, music, imaginative structures. Meaning, human meaning that is. Is defined by them. You have to admit that. brigitte (1:04:44) Thank you. Nicole (1:04:47) So as we start to wrap up, I have two questions for you. well three really, but the first one is Is it still a bitter word after our conversation, or do you think we've made it a bit better? brigitte (1:05:01) I think that I think that we've made it a bit better and I also think that it is still very bitter invoking very easily. Nicole (1:05:11) Mm-hmm. Yes. brigitte (1:05:13) so I think but I think with everything that we talked about, was so much more meaningful than that like bitter part of it. So I think having the like more context around it Definitely helps. Nicole (1:05:33) Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think there's lots to love as you get to know the word better. brigitte (1:05:39) Mm-hmm. Nicole (1:05:40) speaking of, what do we want the word to mean now? Like if listeners were to leave with with your definition, the one you most want them to carry that will benefit them the most, what do you want them to take? brigitte (1:05:52) Mmm Hmm Can you read to me again the I think it was the Latin Nicole (1:06:02) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Latin we have A few brigitte (1:06:12) I think it was one of the like first Latin ones. Nicole (1:06:14) Okay, yeah. Yeah. structura, which is a fitting together, an adjustment, a building, a way of building, figuratively arrangement or order. Yeah. brigitte (1:06:26) Yeah, I think like that to me kind of like sums up a lot of what we talked about of the like mmm utilizing structure, like utilizing some sort of a like framework or organization that is able to provide that that cradling feeling, like you said, that like Nicole (1:06:53) Yeah. brigitte (1:06:54) comfort, that support. That enables us to do the things that we want to do while leaving room for the experimentation, the curiosity, the change, the growth, the decay, the letting go, like the all of it, without being too rigid that we're not able to like thrive within it. Nicole (1:07:23) I think that's perfect. Yeah. I love that that's the arrangement or order or way of building. Way of building in the Latin also implies like it's it's your way of building. It brigitte (1:07:37) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nicole (1:07:38) doesn't have to be an imposed one. Yeah. brigitte (1:07:41) Yes. Nicole (1:07:42) And then finally, Bridget, where can people go to learn more about you and your work? brigitte (1:07:49) You can go to my website is www.bridgetflick.studio and Bridget is spelled like Brigitte, B-R-I-G-I-T-T-E. And I'm about to release a new free little workshop. I think I'm gonna have the wait list for when this comes out if you're interested, but It is going to be based on one of my old offerings that I'm kind of refreshing, which was called an energy experiment. and it's kind of helping you tap into that like foundation piece that we talked about. so it's about like tapping into your energy so that you can determine the most nourishing and supportive systems to build for your business. So it's kind of that pre-structure, pre-system. foundation part that connects into that. So that'll be coming soon. Nicole (1:08:46) Amazing. Yeah, we'll put that link in the show notes and everyone should definitely go check that out. well thank you so much, Bridget. This was lovely. What a I I feel like we did the word justice. I I fell in love with it a little bit more and and I really appreciate you being here. brigitte (1:09:01) thank you. I agree with everything you just said and I'm yeah, I'm really glad that you invited me in to have this conversation. Nicole (1:09:10) Yeah.