Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / Living With Stage 4 Cancer for 20 Years: Integrative Oncology, Curing vs. Healing, and the Mind-Body Connection with Kris Carr
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Kris Carr: I've been living with stage four cancer for 20 years now. I think that especially as women, we're all so [00:00:05] powerful. Mm, I like that. And we undervalue our power in such a big way, and we give our [00:00:10] power away. And oftentimes we don't even recognize our power until the shizzle hits the [00:00:15] fan. Mm. I think we've lost our way when it comes to s- sort of the basics and the getting back to [00:00:20] nature and back to the foundation and back to the garden. [00:00:22] Kris Carr: I really equated food with, like, [00:00:25] deprivation. You can't have that. You have to be on a constant diet, and I had a lot of [00:00:30] issues around food, and I think that cancer helped me to make peace with my plate. [00:00:34] Dr. Taz: Hearing the [00:00:35] word cancer is a devastating diagnosis at any age, and as a physician, [00:00:40] I have sat with many patients who find out for the first time that they are dealing with [00:00:45] cancer or may be a little bit further along in their journey. [00:00:47] Dr. Taz: Well, over the 20 years that I've been in [00:00:50] practice, we're only seeing more and more cancer, and unfortunately, we are seeing it [00:00:55] younger and younger. That's why I am thrilled to introduce you to my guest, [00:01:00] Kris Carr, who you might already know. She's a New York Times bestselling author. [00:01:05] She's written seven books, a 20-year cancer survivor, and she's been called [00:01:10] a force of nature by O Magazine and was named a new role model by [00:01:15] The New York Times. [00:01:16] Dr. Taz: She's a member of Oprah's SuperSoul 100, recognizing the [00:01:20] most influential thought leaders of today. Her work has been featured in Forbes, The Wall [00:01:25] Street Journal, Glamour, Good Morning America, the Today Show, and so many other [00:01:30] media appearances and television shows. Kris teaches people how to take back their health and [00:01:35] live like they mean it. [00:01:36] Dr. Taz: Her work will change the way [00:01:38] Dr. Taz: you live, love, [00:01:40] and eat. Welcome to the show, Kris. [00:01:43] Dr. Taz: I'm a bit giddy at the [00:01:45] moment I have been following your work for years. I think you're [00:01:50] phenomenal. I know that you've made such a dent in the space around holistic health, but [00:01:55] specifically holistic oncology. But you have your own story, and for those of [00:02:00] you who don't know the incredible Kris Carr, you guys are missing out. [00:02:04] Dr. Taz: And I know [00:02:05] your story started in 2003, and I honestly didn't enter this [00:02:10] space until, until maybe 2006, 2007. And I [00:02:15] think people like you were an inspiration to me as I was trying to put pieces of my own [00:02:20] story together and trying to figure out which way to go. So personally, I couldn't be more [00:02:25] excited. [00:02:25] Dr. Taz: Professionally, I can't wait for what you have to share [00:02:30] with our audience. But I want you to share your story. How did you even enter into the [00:02:35] world of holistic health? You know, I want you to tell that story. [00:02:39] Kris Carr: Well, thank [00:02:40] you, and I'm a big fan of yours, and I've been so benefited by your work, especially now that [00:02:45] I- Oh, [00:02:45] Dr. Taz: thank [00:02:45] Kris Carr: you [00:02:45] Kris Carr: am 53 and on a different health journey. I'm right [00:02:48] Dr. Taz: there with you. [00:02:49] Kris Carr: And you're [00:02:50] one of my gurus, and so this is a really magical moment for me, too. [00:02:53] Dr. Taz: Oh. [00:02:54] Kris Carr: Yeah. I [00:02:54] Dr. Taz: love it. I [00:02:55] love it. [00:02:55] Kris Carr: So you and I were kibitzing a little bit. My journey started on [00:03:00] Valentine's Day- Mm ... in 2003, and that's when I was diagnosed with a rare and [00:03:05] incurable stage four cancer. [00:03:07] Kris Carr: And so I've been living with stage four cancer for 20 years [00:03:10] now. But back at the time- 'Cause you [00:03:12] Dr. Taz: were how old [00:03:13] Kris Carr: at that time? I was 31. [00:03:15] 31 at that time. Yeah, so. Okay. [00:03:16] Dr. Taz: Young woman. [00:03:17] Kris Carr: Young woman. Okay. And because I have a rare [00:03:20] disease, oftentimes there's very little known about rare cancer specifically [00:03:25] because there aren't many of us, there isn't much funding for research, and so [00:03:30] the progress is very slow. [00:03:32] Kris Carr: And at the time when I was diagnosed, the first [00:03:35] doctor suggested a triple organ transplant. Mm-hmm. So I have tumors in both of my lungs and [00:03:40] my liver. [00:03:40] Dr. Taz: What type of cancer? Do you mind [00:03:41] Kris Carr: sharing? I have a sarcoma. Sarcoma. So a rare sarcoma. And [00:03:45] um, I didn't know much about medicine. I knew nothing about- Mm-hmm [00:03:48] Kris Carr: medicine, but I thought, [00:03:50] "That's not a good idea." And s- it was really that moment where I decided I [00:03:55] had to, what I call it now, is becoming the CEO of your health. Yes. And building [00:04:00] your team, and stepping in that leadership role and saying, "I'm in charge, hire, fire. I know the [00:04:05] most about my body." And I looked for somebody, I looked for a doctor who not only had his [00:04:10] finger on the pulse of research, but was kind and had a good bedside manner- Mm-hmm [00:04:13] Kris Carr: and wasn't radical and [00:04:15] all. You know, and it took a bit. The- and I got a lot more, you know, "You've got 10 years to live." [00:04:20] Ugh. All the different things that- The sentence ... the different doctors said. Um, and I finally found [00:04:25] my second in command, and he suggested a really radical approach, which was, "Let's [00:04:30] do nothing." [00:04:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. " [00:04:31] Kris Carr: We're gonna watch and wait and let cancer make the first move," because [00:04:35] the disease I have can be slow-growing, but it, it can also be aggressive and it can also change. [00:04:40] And- [00:04:40] Dr. Taz: But let's just talk about, okay, you're 30 years old. I don't wanna let this go. You're 30 years [00:04:45] old, and you get a diagnosis of the C word- Mm [00:04:48] Dr. Taz: cancer, which to this day, no [00:04:50] matter how old you are- [00:04:51] Kris Carr: It's terrifying ... [00:04:52] Dr. Taz: terrifies everybody, right? You're sort of like, "Well, [00:04:55] how long do I have? What's gonna happen next? You know, where do I go? What do I do?" In [00:05:00] 2003, for all of you watching and listening, 2003 was the dark [00:05:05] ages when it comes to- It really was. [00:05:07] Dr. Taz: When it comes to, like, health and wellness, right? We [00:05:10] were still sort of like, "Do what the doctor tells you to do." Yeah. You know, follow orders, [00:05:15] follow directions. If you don't do something, then it was gonna be damnation and all the other [00:05:20] things that come after that. So when someone tells you to do nothing, [00:05:25] isn't that scary? [00:05:26] Kris Carr: It was scary because I didn't know anybody [00:05:30] like me. I thought you got a diagnosis, you did treatment, you were hopeful that it would [00:05:35] work, and then you got back to your life, whether you liked that life or not. And the fact that [00:05:40] I couldn't make it go away- [00:05:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:05:42] Kris Carr: was, it was, I often say that [00:05:45] it's probably my biggest spiritual practice, which is learning acceptance- [00:05:48] Dr. Taz: Mm [00:05:48] Kris Carr: and learning how to [00:05:50] go the distance with something that I'd prefer not to go the distance with, [00:05:55] but to learn how to love and take care of myself anyway. [00:05:57] Dr. Taz: Ooh, [00:05:57] Kris Carr: I like that. And not be resentful or feel like my [00:06:00] body's let me down, or all of the different places that we go. Um, and that took a long [00:06:05] time to get there, but I think another thing that happened was because there was nothing I [00:06:10] can do in the tracking period- I felt [00:06:15] so out of control- Mm-hmm [00:06:16] Kris Carr: that I needed- I can [00:06:16] Dr. Taz: imagine ... [00:06:17] Kris Carr: to have some sense of control, and that's [00:06:20] when I started on my holistic path. I literally, I left the hospital that [00:06:25] day, and I went to Whole Foods Market. [00:06:26] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:06:27] Kris Carr: I had no idea what I was doing. Like, [00:06:30] vegetables terrified me. So why- Kale was [00:06:31] Dr. Taz: terrifying ... so why Whole Foods? Like, what c- what were you doing before? [00:06:34] Dr. Taz: What was [00:06:35] your career before? [00:06:35] Kris Carr: I was an actress. I was a dancer. I was a photographer. I was living in New York City. [00:06:40] I was existing on fake food, fast food- Ah ... takeout. [00:06:43] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:06:43] Kris Carr: Health was about- The [00:06:44] Dr. Taz: life. [00:06:44] Kris Carr: [00:06:45] Yeah. It was about what you eat to stay skinny for auditions. [00:06:49] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:06:50] [00:06:50] Kris Carr: It wasn't, like, about fueling your body. [00:06:52] Dr. Taz: We're contemporaries. Yeah. So yes, I think I've told this story [00:06:55] before. It was Diet Coke and popcorn because it was low-calorie, right? Low-calorie. So that feels- Yeah ... healthy. [00:07:00] So, uh, okay, so that makes sense now. So you, you're living this [00:07:05] fast-paced life. You're in New York City. Yeah. Right? You know, running probably a mile a minute.[00:07:10] [00:07:10] Dr. Taz: You get this diagnosis, and you turn to Whole Foods? [00:07:13] Kris Carr: Honestly, I go back [00:07:15] to, like, well, vegetables are good for you, they say. [00:07:18] Dr. Taz: Okay. Gotcha. I, [00:07:19] Kris Carr: I [00:07:20] could do that. You know, what can you control? Right. The first thing is, like, well, what I put in my body, [00:07:25] and then what I put on my body. And then you start to learn a little bit, you know? [00:07:28] Kris Carr: And then you learn about the food system, [00:07:30] and you learn about the medical system. And then I, I remember saying to myself, "Why [00:07:35] don't more of us know about this?" [00:07:36] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:07:37] Kris Carr: You know, we don't come into this planet with an owner's manual, and [00:07:40] oftentimes we have to put one together when we've hit an icy patch in our life.[00:07:45] [00:07:45] Kris Carr: And, and so that was the beginning of my journey, and luckily, I loved becoming a [00:07:50] student of wellness, and it also allowed me to channel my fear [00:07:55] in a positive direction. Uh, and, and then I started feeling better, and I [00:08:00] started writing and teaching, and I made a film about my journey and, and then my [00:08:05] life really changed. [00:08:06] Dr. Taz: It turned into a diff- in a different direction. You're such a big advocate now [00:08:10] for holistic health and really a supportive person for anyone going on a cancer journey, and [00:08:15] I think that's incredible. I wanna go back to, though, as you're trying to chart your own journey, 'cause [00:08:20] one of the things I hear about over and over again in practice is this sort of like, [00:08:25] "I don't know where to start. [00:08:26] Dr. Taz: I don't know what to do. I don't know who to listen to." And we have more [00:08:30] information today than we had, you know, when you and I were coming along. Yeah. And I'm thinking [00:08:35] about you in the city. You know, we're sitting here in New York City filming at the moment. Like, in the city [00:08:40] trying to get answers, trying to put the pieces together as a non-medical person. [00:08:44] Dr. Taz: You know, for anyone [00:08:45] watching and listening to us today, 'cause I think that in itself is relevant no matter what the year is and no [00:08:50] matter- Mm-hmm ... you know, no matter what timeframe we're in. You know, how did you start that [00:08:55] journey? Like, what did you do first? What did you do second? [00:08:57] Kris Carr: Mm-hmm. [00:08:58] Dr. Taz: You know, and what did you see in [00:09:00] your body as you started to put these pieces together? [00:09:03] Kris Carr: Well, I feel blessed because [00:09:05] literally that day at Whole Foods Market, I picked up a few books, [00:09:10] and it was about healing naturally. Not that I, it was my intention to eschew [00:09:15] modern medicine. Right. Again, I didn't have treatment options. Um, it was [00:09:20] that portal into an anti-inflammatory diet. We were talking about- Right, right [00:09:24] Kris Carr: inflammation also, [00:09:25] and I didn't know anything about that. And so that's where I started. And [00:09:30] originally I started, I was macrobiotic, and then I became a raw foodist and, you know, now I teach [00:09:35] a whole foods, plant-based diet, and it, you don't even have to be 100% [00:09:40] plant-based. Mm-hmm. [00:09:44] Kris Carr: It's just the point is, can we eat more real foods, whole foods, fruits, vegetables, the [00:09:45] medicine, right? And so, um, it was through trial and error [00:09:50] about what feels good to me. Mm. And I did many different certification programs. I would do, I would [00:09:55] go as deep as I possibly could as if I wanted to become a teacher or practitioner [00:10:00] because I needed to feel the benefits. [00:10:01] Kris Carr: For [00:10:02] Dr. Taz: you. [00:10:02] Kris Carr: Yeah. Yeah. For me. [00:10:03] Dr. Taz: Totally relate. [00:10:04] Kris Carr: Um, and [00:10:05] so really, I d- I, I went, I followed the inflammation trail. [00:10:10] Mm-hmm. And it took me to many wonderful places. [00:10:13] Dr. Taz: That's incredible. So you start to [00:10:15] get better. Are you realizing you're getting better? Or is this more like you're going in to do, [00:10:20] like, lab work and testing and that type of thing? [00:10:23] Kris Carr: So I start to feel better. [00:10:24] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:10:24] Kris Carr: So [00:10:24] Dr. Taz: I s- [00:10:25] What specifically? Yeah. What did you notice as you adopted this lifestyle? [00:10:28] Kris Carr: First of all, my digestion [00:10:30] was working for the first time. I was actually having bowel movements regularly. Which you weren't before. No. [00:10:35] Wow. You know, and I had natural energy as opposed to energy [00:10:40] that would be created by substances. [00:10:41] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:10:42] Kris Carr: Um, and I feel [00:10:45] as though, because I came up at a time in- S- s- specifically in the [00:10:50] dance world where it, we had to be so thin. [00:10:53] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:10:53] Kris Carr: And I had, [00:10:55] um, I did business finally with a real difficult disordered [00:11:00] eating habit. [00:11:01] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:11:01] Kris Carr: Um, because I really equated food [00:11:05] with like, you know, deprivation. You can't have that. [00:11:07] Kris Carr: You have to be on a constant [00:11:10] diet. And so I, I had a lot of issues around food, and I think that [00:11:15] cancer allowed me to make peace with my plate, and to see food in a way of like [00:11:20] being thankful and grateful, and this is medicine, this is healing, and to change my relationship with my [00:11:25] body, to appreciate my body for the first time, and the trillions of things that it does for me [00:11:30] every day without me even thinking about it. [00:11:32] Kris Carr: And sure, there's some areas that are struggling, but can I [00:11:35] send love and support to those areas instead of continuing to participate [00:11:40] in, in, in making those areas, uh, struggle? [00:11:44] Dr. Taz: You know, it's [00:11:45] so interesting. Are you still in the dance world? No. Or did you stay in the dance world? [00:11:48] Kris Carr: No. I should ask that question. [00:11:48] Kris Carr: I, I actually, [00:11:50] I left my career, and I, I made my [00:11:55] film, and then I started writing books, and I, I left New York City. It- I, I took a really [00:12:00] radical turn, um, because I had been performing since I was a kid. [00:12:04] Dr. Taz: [00:12:05] Mm. [00:12:05] Kris Carr: And I had been everybody I- but me, right? You're doing all these [00:12:10] different roles- Right, right ... becoming all these different people, and I'm like, "Who is Chris? [00:12:13] Kris Carr: 'Cause we need to figure that out right [00:12:15] now. She needs you." [00:12:16] Dr. Taz: You know, I've met so many, you know, young women and [00:12:20] women in the dance world, in the acting world, models, or even when I look at my [00:12:25] own daughter, who's now 16- Mm ... and her peer group, this idea of [00:12:30] food equaling deprivation, starvation is still there. [00:12:34] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:12:35] [00:12:35] Dr. Taz: And it's really worrisome. And I don't know if you have any advice to maybe the [00:12:40] moms like me, or even to a young woman listening today, how do we first make [00:12:45] acceptance, you know, around, or make peace with food really? Because I [00:12:50] think that society still to this day continues to hold up an image, regardless of [00:12:55] what career you're, you know, you end up choosing, and then I know dance, acting, modeling- Mm [00:12:58] Dr. Taz: is, like, turning that [00:13:00] up about 1,000%. You know, how do we start to teach our young [00:13:05] women to not go down that road, you know, of really [00:13:10] fighting food, fighting, you know, fighting their bodies, you know? Because when I hear [00:13:15] you talk, I'm hearing not... And this is a big mission of this show, is to bring the [00:13:20] science- Mm-hmm [00:13:20] Dr. Taz: of a lot of what's happening with our human experience and our spirit together. Because [00:13:25] I think you can't separate the two. The two are very much- Mm-hmm ... intertwined together. But [00:13:30] we still need to make it practical and tactical and logical for folks, right? How do [00:13:35] you do that? [00:13:36] Kris Carr: Well, I think everybody's individual, but as you were talking, [00:13:40] um, such a powerful and beautiful question, and hopefully I can offer some [00:13:45] perspective. [00:13:45] Kris Carr: I think that especially as women, we're all so powerful. [00:13:48] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:13:49] Kris Carr: I like that. And we [00:13:50] undervalue our power in such a big way, and we give our power away. And [00:13:55] oftentimes we don't even recognize our power until the shizzle hits the fan- Mm ... and we [00:14:00] have to dig deep. And but the truth is, is that power is there all along, [00:14:05] and the sooner we can start to honor it, nurture it, respect [00:14:10] it, grow it, deepen it, I think the more fruitful and [00:14:15] meaningful our life becomes. [00:14:17] Kris Carr: And that doesn't come from [00:14:20] comparing yourself to others. It comes from befriending yourself and really having [00:14:25] your own back, and walking your own path. And also finding [00:14:30] mentors and women that you look up to- Who I like, [00:14:33] Dr. Taz: yeah ... [00:14:33] Kris Carr: that aren't [00:14:35] necessarily the ones on TikTok or the Kardashians or whatever, you know what I mean? [00:14:39] Kris Carr: Right, right. I don't [00:14:40] wanna put anybody down, but anybody that you look up to who is an [00:14:45] individual, who is shining, uh, her own power and, and really [00:14:50] standing in her light in a way that isn't conforming to [00:14:55] advertising models or the way women should look or should be. You know when you're triggered. [00:15:00] You know, ultimately, like even when I go on Instagram and I'll see somebody awesome, and I'm like, [00:15:05] "You trigger me." [00:15:05] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:15:06] Kris Carr: Why do you trigger me? Because you're... for whatever reason, I'm feeling less than. You don't feel [00:15:10] good. [00:15:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:15:10] Kris Carr: I don't feel good, so you're not my mentor. You're great doing your thing, but the [00:15:15] people that I gravitate towards, I'm like, damn. I was watching this interview with Kate Winslet on [00:15:20] 60 Minutes. Yes. [00:15:20] Dr. Taz: I love her. Mm. [00:15:21] Kris Carr: She's so herself. [00:15:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:15:23] Kris Carr: She's talking about body [00:15:25] image and how she, uh, you know, one of her acting teachers had said, "Oh, if you're gonna look like this, [00:15:30] darling, you're gonna have to settle- Yeah ... for the fat girl roles." [00:15:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah, yeah. And- I remember her saying that, yeah, mm-hmm ... [00:15:34] Kris Carr: right? And [00:15:35] so, so many of us would shrink when we heard that. [00:15:37] Kris Carr: You know what she said? She said, [00:15:40] "I'll show you." It's a choice. So what's your I'll show you? [00:15:44] Dr. Taz: [00:15:45] Right. ' [00:15:46] Kris Carr: Cause that's how you're gonna get through the gauntlet of, of, [00:15:50] of trying to navigate and survive as a woman. [00:15:52] Dr. Taz: I love that. You know, I think two things [00:15:55] there that I just wanna make sure we dial into. First of all, if it doesn't feel good, [00:16:00] walk away. [00:16:01] Dr. Taz: You know, I think so many people, and I don't care how old you are, you could be a teenager or [00:16:05] you could be somebody in your 60s, but if you're doing something or c- following someone [00:16:10] or seeing images that don't make you feel good, I think turn the corner. Yeah. Right? There's no [00:16:15] reason to continue to engage in that. [00:16:16] Dr. Taz: And I love the second. I love the I'll show you, and I've used [00:16:20] that mantra many a time in my life. Me too. If you're gonna tell me no, let me show you , you know? [00:16:25] So- Yes ... I love that, and I actually, to this day, I am following that, you know, [00:16:30] to a T, so I love that. But, um, let's go back to your journey, and [00:16:35] you're e- embraced a plant-foods diet. [00:16:37] Dr. Taz: You're feeling better. Your gut's working much [00:16:40] better. Tell us what happens next. [00:16:42] Kris Carr: So I still get tracked, [00:16:45] and, you know, in the beginning it was every two months, three months, six months, [00:16:50] year. That was a huge graduation point for me of going in, and my tumors have [00:16:55] still been stable each time. Sometimes they get smaller, but for the most [00:17:00] part they're just stable. [00:17:01] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:17:02] Kris Carr: And again, that can still change, [00:17:05] and 20-plus years later, now there are starting to be some potential treatment [00:17:10] options. I wouldn't do any of them right now because I feel great [00:17:15] and I'm still stable, but if things were to become aggressive- [00:17:18] Dr. Taz: You might consider it ... [00:17:19] Kris Carr: I would [00:17:20] absolutely consider it. Right. [00:17:20] Kris Carr: You know? Um, and now I go in every five years, which [00:17:25] is- [00:17:25] Dr. Taz: Amazing ... [00:17:26] Kris Carr: amazing. And I- I [00:17:27] Dr. Taz: love that ... [00:17:28] Kris Carr: I feel like that's, that's [00:17:30] enough. [00:17:30] Dr. Taz: You know? What are doctors, what do they say when they hear your story [00:17:35] and track your journey? You know, what's the medical community, how have they weighed in? You can be [00:17:40] honest. Yeah. [00:17:40] Dr. Taz: I know, I know I'm a physician, but you can be completely honest. Yeah. Uh- [00:17:43] Kris Carr: You know? Yes, absolutely. You [00:17:45] know, I'm in a rare group of people with my disease. Um, there aren't many of us at this [00:17:50] mark, this, uh, you know, m- that have had it as long as I have. And so [00:17:55] I think what's happening now is this, this desire to study us- [00:17:59] Dr. Taz: Mm [00:17:59] Kris Carr: to see [00:18:00] if there's anything that's happening in our bodies that could help other patients like [00:18:05] me. Um, so hopefully there'll be more studies like that, maybe one that [00:18:10] I can join- [00:18:10] Dr. Taz: Definitely, yeah ... [00:18:11] Kris Carr: and, and be a part of. [00:18:13] Dr. Taz: You know, it's interesting 'cause when I [00:18:15] hear you tell your story, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm hearing an intuitive [00:18:20] journey. [00:18:20] Dr. Taz: I'm hearing, "I'm gonna do the things that are healthy. I have a few [00:18:25] resources. I'm gonna follow those resources, and I'm gonna listen to my body, and I'm gonna honor my [00:18:30] body." At any point, and I, and the answer might be no, because I know medicine has [00:18:35] evolved in the years since, but at, at any point, was there sort of a strategic plan that [00:18:40] maybe either you created or a medical partner created where, "Hey, [00:18:45] let's look at inflammation consistently. [00:18:47] Dr. Taz: Let's look at these key nutrient values in your [00:18:50] cancer journey. You know, let's see what your hormones are doing. You know, what are the variables that may be [00:18:55] feeding this or may be helping to reduce it?" And kinda measuring that. Yes. Was [00:19:00] there any of that available to you? [00:19:01] Kris Carr: A little bit. Um, most of that was not [00:19:05] available at the time- Right [00:19:06] Kris Carr: and it was something that I would have to sorta track on a piece of paper, you know what I mean? Wow. [00:19:10] [00:19:10] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:19:10] Kris Carr: Wow. I get my sketch pad out. Yes, exactly. [00:19:15] Let me just see my blood work. Yeah. Um, but then I started to work with an [00:19:20] integrative oncologist- Okay ... um, Keith Block- Yes ... in Chicago. [00:19:23] Dr. Taz: Yes, yes, yes. [00:19:23] Kris Carr: And he [00:19:25] was, he was a turning point for me because I hadn't worked with an in- I hadn't found an integrative [00:19:30] doctor who could also, like, really understand, um, my particular [00:19:35] situation. [00:19:36] Kris Carr: And so that was very, very helpful. And then my, [00:19:40] he's very aligned with my nutrition protocol- Right ... and what I have been following and practicing, [00:19:45] and he's very much for it. Um, but then taking my supplementation up to the next level. [00:19:50] [00:19:50] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:19:50] Kris Carr: And, and then also, a big part of the journey for me was it's... I, I [00:19:55] often say that in the beginning I was focused on what I'm eating. [00:19:57] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:19:57] Kris Carr: And then around the 10-year mark, I [00:20:00] started to focus on what was eating me. [00:20:01] Dr. Taz: Oh. [00:20:02] Kris Carr: Right? Because- Okay, I love this. Yeah. [00:20:04] Dr. Taz: We'll go [00:20:04] Kris Carr: there. [00:20:04] Dr. Taz: [00:20:05] Yeah, yeah. We gotta go there. [00:20:06] Kris Carr: We know that inflammation- Right ... of course, it's what we're eating, what we're drinking, what we're [00:20:10] thinking, how we're resting, how we're renewing. [00:20:11] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:20:12] Kris Carr: And that thinking piece is such a big part, 'cause stress is, [00:20:15] you know, the, the foundation of so much of the situations that we don't wanna find ourselves in. [00:20:20] Um, so Keith was very helpful, and a few other practitioners along the way. Um, [00:20:25] but for the longest poi- point in my journey, it was a, it was a total black box. [00:20:29] Kris Carr: Mm. [00:20:30] And it's interesting, because it wasn't until about two years ago, where I had some [00:20:35] hormonal issues, that I started to go down the road of finding you. [00:20:40] And I... It was literally like I was back at the beginning of my journey- [00:20:45] The first day I walked into Whole Foods, and you can realize, wow, I have taught myself [00:20:50] so much, but I completely ignored one part of [00:20:55] my education because it wasn't cancer related. [00:20:57] Kris Carr: Right. And so I was like, "Uh, I guess [00:21:00] everything's fine." But I had all of these new symptoms and these new issues that had nothing [00:21:05] to do with cancer, but were really debilitating, like even more so than cancer- [00:21:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:21:09] Kris Carr: [00:21:10] for me. [00:21:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:21:10] Kris Carr: And so I'm on that journey now. I'm like a fresh student [00:21:14] Dr. Taz: In the [00:21:15] hormone world. [00:21:15] Kris Carr: In the hormone world, and it's fascinating and exciting and, [00:21:20] and I'm so grateful for you and- Oh, thank you ... I really am. And my girlfriends and I were talking [00:21:25] about it this weekend, and it's also so frustrating- [00:21:27] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:21:28] Kris Carr: to be 53 years old [00:21:30] and, and to feel like how, how, why is this so new and it's so, you [00:21:35] know, none of us know this. [00:21:35] Kris Carr: Well, you [00:21:35] Dr. Taz: feel for our mothers and our grandmothers who just sort of went- Yes ... hands up in the air, [00:21:40] this is getting old, you know? And, and- Yes ... felt like, and I even think of my own mom at my [00:21:45] age, and she was having a lot, I love you, Mom, but she was having a lot of mental [00:21:50] health issues. And now that I have sort of the wisdom and the maturity to look back, it was [00:21:55] hormonally driven. [00:21:56] Dr. Taz: She was probably going through menopause at the time. Right. You know, having [00:22:00] an, our entire family has an issue with androgens. Androgens make you crazy. They They [00:22:05] literally make you crazy. They drive anger and rage and, you know, there are even some [00:22:10] studies that say they trigger bipolar disorder and OCD- Wow [00:22:13] Dr. Taz: and all this other stuff. So as [00:22:15] women, it just continues to baffle me. I mean, I guess I've sat in a seat where my entire [00:22:20] journey into this space is because of hormones. Yeah. So maybe I have a little bit more of a front row seat to all of [00:22:25] this. But when you do this over and over again, day in and day out, you're just like, how can we [00:22:30] not talk about hormones in women's health- Yeah [00:22:33] Dr. Taz: when it relates to [00:22:35] every single thing, your gut health, your, you know, mental health, your energy, your sleep, your [00:22:40] relationships, and so much more. So I do think it's a big, you know, big blank space- Mm-hmm ... that is [00:22:45] slowly getting filled now, but we still have a lot of work to do- Mm-hmm ... you know, in that. But [00:22:50] thinking about you again as you're working with Dr. [00:22:52] Dr. Taz: Block, whose work I've looked at too, and I, I know he [00:22:55] does incredible things in the cancer space, you know, and you're starting to understand a little bit more about the [00:23:00] physiology of your body and the chemistry of your body. Mm-hmm. You talked about taking supplementation up [00:23:05] a degree. What were the things you found, out of curiosity?[00:23:10] [00:23:11] Kris Carr: I'd say that there's, I've found a few things. First and foremost- 'Cause [00:23:13] Dr. Taz: you're living a plant-based- [00:23:15] [00:23:15] Kris Carr: Yes ... [00:23:15] Dr. Taz: life at this point, right? Yes. So just [00:23:17] Kris Carr: curious. For me, it was, you know, all the basics are very [00:23:20] important, your vitamin D, vitamin B, all of the things that are the baseline stuff, right? [00:23:25] Um, making sure that the vast majority of my nutrients are coming from food. [00:23:29] Kris Carr: Right. [00:23:30] And that that is my, my foundation, and I think that supplementation fills in the [00:23:35] gaps. It complements a healthy diet. It complements a healthy [00:23:40] lifestyle. But then working with Keith, I started to work with mushrooms and all of these other things that [00:23:45] could support my immune system- Mm ... and my T-cells and, and things like that. [00:23:48] Kris Carr: Um, I [00:23:50] also think for the vast majority of normal, everyday, regular people- [00:23:55] It can ge- get very overwhelming. [00:23:58] Dr. Taz: Very much [00:23:58] Kris Carr: And we [00:24:00] start to throw up our hands because all of a sudden we've got so many supplements- Right ... to take, and you don't [00:24:05] necessarily key into feeling better, right? It's happening on the inside, and you're just [00:24:10] hoping something's working. [00:24:10] Dr. Taz: You don't see the payoff. I hear that from- Yeah ... patients all the time. Yeah. They're like, "This is just too much," like, "I don't [00:24:15] know what it's doing." [00:24:15] Kris Carr: Yeah. So I, what I try to do is keep it very simple. And, [00:24:20] um, and I think for anybody out there listening, you know, you can obviously work with a [00:24:25] wonderful doctor. [00:24:25] Kris Carr: I think it's better to work with a doctor if you can because then we're, you're [00:24:30] being guided by your blood work. Um, and that'll tell you a lot about what it is that you [00:24:35] need and what would be helpful- Very much ... to support. I mean, you know, this is your wheelhouse. Yes, this is [00:24:38] Dr. Taz: my wheelhouse. [00:24:40] Yeah. [00:24:40] Kris Carr: Um, and then also being th- being brave enough to say like, "Hey, I know [00:24:45] me. [00:24:45] Kris Carr: I'm the type of person that if it's more than- Right ... five things, I'm probably not gonna take it. [00:24:50] I'm gonna waste a whole bunch of money." Like, start slow. Build a practice just like [00:24:55] anything else, that it starts to work into your life so that you can actually commit to it and [00:25:00] see the change in your blood work in three months, six months, and so forth. [00:25:04] Kris Carr: Um, [00:25:05] because I, I, again, like I took the full-on sell your apartment, go on a [00:25:10] journey, like throw yourself in, because I was so scared. But most people do [00:25:15] better with like that slow and steady- Right ... stacking new habits approach so that they don't [00:25:20] burn out. [00:25:20] Dr. Taz: Very much. It's been such a blessing working with so many different types of people, [00:25:25] and I think it goes back to what you started with, that you really have to know [00:25:30] yourself- [00:25:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah [00:25:30] Dr. Taz: and you really have to trust yourself. Because I think some of us are like, "I'm gonna do it [00:25:35] all, bring it all in, and, you know, you tell me what to do. I'm gonna commit to it, and you'll [00:25:40] walk through every step." But the majority of us, you know, that's a lot. And so I think you [00:25:45] have to have a lot of self-acceptance. [00:25:47] Dr. Taz: And then I always talk to patients about [00:25:50] employing sort of what I learned from the ER, where we're triaging. Mm-hmm. What is of highest [00:25:55] priority at this given moment? And what, what's your capacity? What are you able to do? [00:26:00] If you're feeling exhausted and fatigued, we need to do level one and level two. We don't need to worry [00:26:05] about all this other minutiae right now. [00:26:06] Dr. Taz: We can get to it later, you know? And really kinda working [00:26:10] through a plan and building a plan- Yeah ... that way, I think, is the way. And I, and I continue to this day to [00:26:15] have the patients that come in with like big bags of supplements- ... and dump them all out on the counter and be like, "This [00:26:20] is what I'm taking." [00:26:20] Dr. Taz: And there is such a thing as too much. [00:26:22] Kris Carr: Yeah. [00:26:23] Dr. Taz: There's definitely such a thing as too much, you know? [00:26:25] So [00:26:25] Kris Carr: glad you said that. And I so appreciate your approach because I, I think that it just opens the door f- to [00:26:30] more of us to [00:26:31] Dr. Taz: say- Definitely ... " [00:26:31] Kris Carr: I can do this." [00:26:32] Dr. Taz: You can do it, and it's a part of my passion, [00:26:35] honestly. [00:26:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. I feel like you can do one thing. Everyone can do one thing, and that one [00:26:40] thing has a reverberating effect on the human body- Yeah ... and the human spirit both. Mm-hmm. You [00:26:45] know? And I think that's the thing that makes me just be like, "Please listen. Please do [00:26:50] something." But you said something else that we can't walk away from. [00:26:54] Dr. Taz: You said you [00:26:55] learned what was eating you more than just what you were eating. [00:27:00] What was happening there in that space? Because again, Chinese [00:27:05] medicine talks about this, Ayurvedic medicine talks about this. Mm-hmm. So many older, you know- Yeah ... [00:27:10] shamanic systems of medicine talk about this. When you are carrying burdens in the [00:27:15] spirit, in the soul- Mm-hmm [00:27:16] Dr. Taz: it will show up in the physical body. Maybe not [00:27:20] today, maybe not tomorrow. Yeah. But at some point it shows up. My personal clinical [00:27:25] experience, it shows up as inflammation historically. Mm. It shows up as high cortisol. [00:27:30] It shows up as mental health issues. There are many different ways that it shows up. [00:27:35] One of the biggest things that I have a problem with is that the way we've structured medicine today is that we don't [00:27:40] leave time and space- Mm [00:27:41] Dr. Taz: to get into that, and we're not really healing people [00:27:45] when we get, when we don't go there. So I want you to go there, if you're comfortable- Yeah ... [00:27:50] and let people know what that was. Mm-hmm. And then what did it [00:27:55] do in this journey that we call cancer? [00:27:57] Kris Carr: Mm-hmm. journey that we call [00:28:00] cancer, wellness- All of it [00:28:02] Kris Carr: prevention, uh, autoimmune, [00:28:05] whatever it is. Um, so 10 years in, I'm practicing a whole [00:28:10] foods plant-based diet. I'm already a New York Times bestseller. Like, things are happening, right? [00:28:15] And people are starting to follow my work, and a lot of people are starting to feel better. [00:28:20] And I feel better, but I still have cancer. [00:28:22] Kris Carr: And so at the 10-year mark, which is my [00:28:25] original expiration date- Right ... everybody was very happy but me. [00:28:30] [00:28:30] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:28:31] Kris Carr: And so my dad was there, my mom was there, my, my family was [00:28:35] in the room when I got the good news that everything was still looking good. And there [00:28:40] was this moment where I just said, "Wow, I'm [00:28:45] really so hellbent on curing myself." [00:28:48] Kris Carr: Hmm. "That if I don't cure myself, life isn't [00:28:50] good enough. Like, I haven't... I need to put a neat bow on this. It has to be behind me." It's like an expectation [00:28:54] Dr. Taz: [00:28:55] thing. Yeah. Like a grade almost. Mm-hmm. Like a report card. Mm-hmm. [00:28:57] Kris Carr: And here are also people who are practicing [00:29:00] what I'm teaching and curing themselves, right? [00:29:03] Kris Carr: Hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I think [00:29:05] I felt like a big failure. That's not something that I was sharing or I was even [00:29:10] really, um, recognizing in myself, but we, my husband and I, were driving back from [00:29:15] Dana-Farber is where- Mm-hmm ... my cancer is in, uh, hospital is in Boston, and I said, "I quit." [00:29:20] He said, "What? What are you quitting?" [00:29:21] Kris Carr: I said, "I'm quitting doing all this for cancer." [00:29:24] Dr. Taz: Hmm. "[00:29:25] [00:29:25] Kris Carr: I have to do this for me. I have to take care of myself and live a healthy [00:29:30] life for me, not because I'm trying to get an A on the [00:29:35] report card- Right ... and, and be in remission, as if, if only if I'm in remission, then I [00:29:40] can live." Right. And so what I realized in that journey [00:29:45] was I had a lot of mental and emotional work to do- [00:29:48] Dr. Taz: Hmm [00:29:49] Kris Carr: around [00:29:50] fear, anxiety, acceptance, worthiness. [00:29:54] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:29:54] Kris Carr: [00:29:55] And a lot of my old trauma, so I'm adopted. I was raised by my mother and [00:30:00] my grandmother, but I didn't know my biological father until I was a teenager, and [00:30:05] we were in each other's lives for a period of time and then he cut me out of his life again, um- Hmm [00:30:09] Kris Carr: [00:30:10] after my first book came out. And what I realized was is that this [00:30:15] old trauma was coming up, and it was around abandonment- Yeah ... and rejection and not being good [00:30:20] enough, and I was somehow tying it into cancer. Right? And I was [00:30:25] rejecting, and abandoning, and feeling not good enough because I wasn't cured. [00:30:28] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:30:29] Kris Carr: And then [00:30:30] I realized there's a difference between curing and healing, and that curing is a [00:30:35] physical experience, and it may or may not happen. Great if it does. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean life is over. But [00:30:40] healing is a spiritual- Right ... experience, and it's available to every single one of us [00:30:45] to the moment of our death and beyond. [00:30:46] Kris Carr: And, and that was the turning point for me, and that's when I [00:30:50] started to practice, let's call it stress management, you know, and really go [00:30:55] back into therapy and start to take care of my mind, not just my body. [00:31:00] Um, and start to weave that into my teaching- [00:31:03] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:31:03] Kris Carr: so that as I s- [00:31:05] continued to write books and whatnot, that I was emphasizing the mind as much [00:31:10] as the diet. [00:31:10] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:31:11] Kris Carr: You know, um, how you're feeling about yourself, your stress levels, [00:31:15] as much as are you moving, are you sleeping, you know? And, and, and so that was, that was the [00:31:20] turning point. It was in that car. It was after that scan, and, and I, I said, "This, [00:31:25] this is ridiculous. This is awful." [00:31:27] Dr. Taz: I've told this story before, you know, [00:31:30] so bear with me as I tell it again, but I have sat with so many men and women, [00:31:35] and, you know, especially with women, when they're going through a great [00:31:40] trauma, or a great loss, or a divorce, or these type of things, um, [00:31:45] unfortunately, sometimes I can clock it. [00:31:47] Kris Carr: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:31:49] Dr. Taz: I can clock it, [00:31:50] and I can say, "If we don't start to explore [00:31:55] some of these emotions and these feelings, in 18 [00:32:00] months we're gonna be dealing with something." I don't like to use the C word. Wow. But [00:32:05] over and over again, it's typically breast cancer. [00:32:07] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:32:07] Dr. Taz: And there are many different reasons for that which [00:32:10] have to... [00:32:10] Dr. Taz: You know, I think Chinese medicine probably explains it the best. You know, the anger [00:32:15] and grief sit in the liver and the lung, and that runs right through the breast, you know? And, [00:32:20] you know, there's that emotional vibration to all of these different things. I think [00:32:25] processing these feelings of rejection and [00:32:30] abandonment, you know, loss and grief- It's easy to go through life [00:32:35] without ever acknowledging them. [00:32:36] Dr. Taz: It's either e- very easy to put the armor on- Yeah ... and walk [00:32:40] your way through, but they are impacting you in so many different ways, whether it's a decision you make about [00:32:45] a career or a partner or- Mm-hmm ... you know, or what you're gonna eat that day, to [00:32:50] actually, you know, expression of disease. How, how do people work [00:32:55] through this? [00:32:55] Dr. Taz: I feel like this is a place, to be 100%- Mm-hmm ... honest and vulnerable here. This is a place [00:33:00] I still to this day struggle just a little bit in the exam room, you know? Mm. 'Cause I want [00:33:05] to lead people there. [00:33:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:33:06] Dr. Taz: But I feel like it's so hard, or I don't have the right [00:33:10] words or the right tools, or there's something that I'm not saying to get you from here to [00:33:15] here. [00:33:15] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:33:15] Dr. Taz: So I would love for you to share, 'cause I know you have a big, and you need to [00:33:20] share your, more about your community and the work you're doing and, you know, how you've touched so many other people, [00:33:25] you know, as we tell your story. But how did you get there and work [00:33:30] through all those things, and how are you helping the many people that are coming into your community- Mm-hmm [00:33:34] Dr. Taz: do [00:33:35] that exact same thing? [00:33:37] Kris Carr: Well, that was the first p- moment [00:33:40] probably. Um, and then about, I guess, four [00:33:45] years ago, my, my dad passed, and, and he was my chosen father, and we [00:33:50] were very, very close. Mm-hmm. And so my most recent book is called I'm Not a Mourning Person, [00:33:55] mourning with a U. [00:33:55] Dr. Taz: Mm, mm-hmm. [00:33:56] Kris Carr: And it's about braving loss, grief, and the [00:34:00] big messy emotions that happen when- Wow [00:34:01] Dr. Taz: life falls apart. Yeah. [00:34:03] Kris Carr: And we've all been touched by [00:34:05] trauma in some way, trauma with a small T, Trauma with a big T. [00:34:10] Um, as Gabor Mate says, "It's not what happens to you, it's what happens inside of [00:34:15] you in that moment." And to your beautiful point that when we [00:34:20] don't address the, the parts that are still hurting, [00:34:25] um, it comes out in some other way. [00:34:28] Kris Carr: It's like physics. [00:34:29] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:34:30] You know? [00:34:30] Kris Carr: Right. Very [00:34:31] Dr. Taz: much, yeah. [00:34:31] Kris Carr: And maybe it won't come out in a disease, but it'll come out in [00:34:35] un- uh, unfulfilling relationships. [00:34:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:34:38] Kris Carr: Or a [00:34:40] career that is never y- you know, your dream or your passion or whatnot because you are [00:34:45] willfully holding yourself back because you're still stuck in the stories. [00:34:49] Kris Carr: Right. [00:34:50] And so you're not gonna go for the thing that would make you so happy and, and whatnot. And so- [00:34:55] I think it starts by saying it's okay to not be okay. There's a [00:35:00] great book, a grief book with that title, and I think so few of us [00:35:05] are emotionally literate. [00:35:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:35:07] Kris Carr: Right? And what I thought [00:35:10] really when my dad died was I, I didn't realize how I [00:35:15] was allergic to grief. [00:35:16] Dr. Taz: Allergic to grief? [00:35:17] Kris Carr: Yeah. I was so afraid of [00:35:20] feeling my grief- Ah ... 'cause I thought that if I felt it, it would take me under like [00:35:25] a tsunami. Mm. It would just suck me out to sea, and the Chris that we know and some of us love [00:35:30] would just be like no more. Yeah. And, um, I- [00:35:35] And, and that m- that feeling in and of itself is such a, does such a [00:35:40] disservice to our emotions because we live, as you so beautifully said [00:35:45] earlier, like how do we navigate this time, es- es- especially for young women, social media and whatnot. [00:35:49] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:35:50] [00:35:50] Kris Carr: And we live in a time where we are in a grief-phobic, [00:35:55] messy emotions averse society. So few of us know how to have these conversations. [00:36:00] And we h- we look at certain emotions and say, "These are worthy," [00:36:05] and other emotions we may say, as my grandmother used to say to me, "That's unbecoming." [00:36:08] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:36:09] Kris Carr: [00:36:10] Sadness, anger, rage- Yep [00:36:11] Kris Carr: for women- Yes ... crying, unbecoming. Won't find a [00:36:15] husband. Don't do that. Right. Shove it down. Pack it up. Put it on. Right. Keep on [00:36:20] trucking. Right. You know what I [00:36:20] Dr. Taz: mean? Totally, yes. [00:36:23] Kris Carr: So can we start to [00:36:25] invite these other parts of ourselves, um, to come to the table and share what [00:36:30] it is that is going on? And one of the things I talk about in the book is we can't [00:36:35] amputate any of our emotions and expect to be whole. [00:36:37] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:36:38] Kris Carr: And wholeness to me is the [00:36:40] goal in this life. Ah, she [00:36:41] Dr. Taz: answered the question already. Right. What makes you whole. Yeah. I love it. [00:36:44] Kris Carr: It's [00:36:45] like being able to say there's parts of me that are deeply grieving. There's parts of me, [00:36:50] like sometimes I can't handle my rage and, and it'll, it'll make me really feel [00:36:55] so much shame, but I can then get curious about that shame- Mm [00:36:57] Kris Carr: and curious about that rage. [00:37:00] And it's, it's almost the same thing as when, when we start our health and, our, our health and wellness journey. [00:37:05] Curiosity is the number one tool 'cause you're like, "Well, what [00:37:10] does this person say? And what would that be like?" And we need to get curious about our [00:37:15] emotions, and to actually start to learn more about them, you know. [00:37:18] Kris Carr: Um- [00:37:20] Brene Brown has that great book. Oh, yes. [00:37:21] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:37:21] Kris Carr: Atlas Heart. Yes. Amazing book. And she [00:37:25] teaches you every single emotion, and what it means, and what it is. And when I think about that, [00:37:30] if I know how to care for my... If I understand a little bit about my liver, not as much as you know, but [00:37:35] like layman's terms about my liver, then I can say, "Oh, well, that's what my liver [00:37:40] does, and that's what it likes. [00:37:41] Kris Carr: Well, now I know a little bit about how to care for my liver, which has tumors [00:37:45] in it, which needs my care. Oh, can I apply that same way of [00:37:50] being to anger- [00:37:51] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:37:51] Kris Carr: to sadness, to jealousy?" Oh, [00:37:55] well it's a s- They're all signaling emotions, bringing us someplace that honestly [00:38:00] leads to more personal growl- growth, and, and a deeper connection with self, [00:38:05] and a, and a deeper healing. [00:38:07] Kris Carr: So- Not to vilify them, but the, but [00:38:10] just go on this path of, "I'm gonna get to know you this year." So do you release these emotions, or do [00:38:15] you just [00:38:15] Dr. Taz: kinda put them in their place, almost like a book on a bookshelf? [00:38:19] Kris Carr: No. [00:38:20] I mean, honestly, you spend time with them. You know, I, I think that emotions are also [00:38:25] energy, and energy needs to- They are [00:38:26] Kris Carr: move. [00:38:27] Dr. Taz: Very much, yeah. [00:38:27] Kris Carr: It needs to be expressed. [00:38:30] Um, and that can happen through journaling. It can happen through movement. It can [00:38:35] happen through, you know, a deep conversation like this- Right ... that's very soulful and nourishing. [00:38:39] Dr. Taz: [00:38:40] Yeah. [00:38:40] Kris Carr: It can also happen with a therapist, and, and for many of us, that's a very good choice, or a [00:38:45] counselor, a place where you feel safe to actually start to explore what you're [00:38:50] feeling, um, and not feel like there's any part of you that's bad or wrong or [00:38:55] broken because you're feeling them. [00:38:57] Dr. Taz: I love that. So as you start to [00:39:00] sit with your emotions- Mm-hmm ... and many of these feelings, which are common, by the way- Yeah ... of rejection [00:39:05] and abandonment and unworthiness, and they come in, you know, from so [00:39:10] many different places, you know, what's happening with your physical body through this journey? [00:39:15] [00:39:15] Kris Carr: Oh, gosh. [00:39:16] Kris Carr: Well, I, I honestly think- [00:39:20] It, it all works together. [00:39:21] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:39:21] Kris Carr: Right? Mm-hmm. And you know this more than anybody. [00:39:25] Um, I can say that I sense a deeper connection with [00:39:30] myself. [00:39:30] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:39:30] Kris Carr: More peace, more ease, more ability to weather [00:39:35] adversity. Even going into this menopausal journey, I'm deep in perimenopause and starting [00:39:40] into like, it didn't happen last month, now it's back this [00:39:45] month. [00:39:45] Kris Carr: Like, what the hell's going on? You know what I mean? Right. Of like being able to navigate this chapter with so much more ease [00:39:50] and grace and calm and a sense of agency, um, because of the work that I've done. Not [00:39:55] just because of my experience- Right ... navigating stage four cancer, but because of the [00:40:00] personal development and personal growth work and, that I have done. [00:40:03] Kris Carr: It's like, "Okay, you [00:40:05] got this. We're, we're- [00:40:06] Dr. Taz: You're gonna be fine ... [00:40:06] Kris Carr: I'm gonna figure this out." [00:40:07] Dr. Taz: No matter what, you'll be fine. [00:40:08] Kris Carr: One step at a time here. [00:40:10] Um, there's no overwhelming, there's no flooding, there's no shutting down. And I [00:40:15] could, because there, there were some medical scares where I remember, you know, one, [00:40:20] um, one of my doctors said, "This might be endometrial cancer." [00:40:23] Kris Carr: I'm like, "It's not." [00:40:24] Dr. Taz: Mm. "[00:40:25] [00:40:25] Kris Carr: But let's get all the tests." [00:40:26] Dr. Taz: I love that feeling. I think I've got it now, [00:40:30] too. It's just like you hear stuff, but there's this inner wisdom and this [00:40:35] inner knowing of like, "Mm-mm." [00:40:36] Kris Carr: No. [00:40:37] Dr. Taz: It's not. "You're wrong. I'm sorry." And I'm not trying to be full of myself. [00:40:40] "I just know you're wrong." You know? [00:40:41] Dr. Taz: S- But that comes with this work. It comes with this, [00:40:45] like, clarity, you know? Yeah. Just ultimate clarity of knowing [00:40:50] which way to turn and which way to go. Mm-hmm. And I love that, you know? You've built this [00:40:55] community. Talk to us about the community that you've built and the resources that you offer, [00:41:00] and I also want your perspective, you know, 'cause I'm, I'm curious as to who's coming into the [00:41:05] community. [00:41:05] Dr. Taz: But one of the things that I personally am very concerned about is how [00:41:10] we, like you in 2003, we're just seeing an escalating rate of [00:41:15] cancer diagnoses in younger and younger men and women. And, you know, we just had [00:41:20] Kate Middleton go through her journey- Yep ... and she's, I think, right at 40. We've had so many big figures, you [00:41:25] know, big public figures go through this in a, in a very, you know, spotlight way, but there's so [00:41:30] many people day to day dealing with this, and I get surprised by it too through [00:41:35] my community that all these young women, 20s, 30s, young men- Mm-hmm [00:41:38] Dr. Taz: 20s, 30s, [00:41:40] developing cancer. You know, are you seeing that in your community? And what sort of guidance or [00:41:45] advice do you have for them? [00:41:46] Kris Carr: So we definitely have a population of people in my community that [00:41:50] have cancer, who have other illnesses, autoimmune, or, or [00:41:55] also there's many people in my community that are just interested in feeling better. [00:41:58] Kris Carr: Right. And you know, one of my mottos [00:42:00] is prevention is the best cure, you know? And so what I teach is very [00:42:05] practical and very, um, accessible. And I basically try to do [00:42:10] my best to translate the basics of lifestyle medicine [00:42:15] into the f- what I call the five pillars of wellness. And it's about being mindful about what you're [00:42:20] eating. [00:42:20] Kris Carr: Are you eating enough plants? What you're drinking. Are you drinking enough water? Mm. Are you [00:42:25] hydrated? What you're thinking. How's that stress management going? And here are some practical tools to [00:42:30] help you soothe, and calm, and reset your nervous system. Um, what you're eating, drinking, what you're [00:42:35] thinking, how you're resting. [00:42:36] Kris Carr: Let's deal with some of the sleep issues, 'cause so many of us aren't sleeping. Yep. And [00:42:40] how you're renewing. So moving your body in a way that is creating more [00:42:45] energy, more vitality, but isn't so, you know, [00:42:50] restrictive or oppressive that you just don't do it. [00:42:52] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:42:52] Kris Carr: Especially coming from my world as [00:42:55] being a ex-professional dancer, there's a lot I had [00:43:00] around, um, fitness- [00:43:01] Dr. Taz: Right [00:43:01] Kris Carr: that was joyful, but also filled with baggage. [00:43:04] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:43:05] [00:43:05] Kris Carr: So that's what I teach, and the pillars rest on a foundation of [00:43:10] stress reduction, AKA reducing inflammation. [00:43:13] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:43:13] Kris Carr: And so [00:43:15] I'm teaching these basics year in, year out to my community. Takes [00:43:20] a bunch of my different books and just sort of puts it into o- one place where people [00:43:25] can practice these things in a way that work with their lives. [00:43:28] Kris Carr: Um, and there's, [00:43:30] there's nothing that's trendy. There's, there's no latest breakthroughs or [00:43:35] fads or what- [00:43:35] Dr. Taz: This is the supplement to take right [00:43:36] Kris Carr: now. Yeah, no. None of that. That's better, yeah. It's really, it's like, okay- Right ... we go really [00:43:40] back to the basics. Right. Because I, I, this is what I know to be true. If you're not doing the basics, [00:43:45] the latest superfood isn't gonna do anything for you. [00:43:49] Kris Carr: You know? [00:43:49] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:43:49] Kris Carr: [00:43:50] And so y- you just cont- continue to build this wonderful practice and enhance it, and, and it grows [00:43:55] and it changes. And last I shared, my practice is changing now. Um, but we always have to get [00:44:00] the foundation down before we can start to do all this other stuff. [00:44:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Are you [00:44:05] concerned with what you're seeing out there with, you know, are younger folks [00:44:10] getting some of these diagnoses faster or dealing with things a little bit [00:44:15] earlier? [00:44:15] Dr. Taz: What do, what do you think is happening? [00:44:16] Kris Carr: I mean, I... That would be a question for you, [00:44:20] what's happening. I can tell you that from my perspective, um, you and I also [00:44:25] talked a little bit, like, we assume that so many of us are educated about how to take care of [00:44:30] ourselves. Right. But it's not true. [00:44:31] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:44:31] Kris Carr: And I think that- Our world is [00:44:35] harder and harder. [00:44:35] Kris Carr: It's more and more stressful. It's more and more, um, fractured. The [00:44:40] information that we get is sort of harder and harder to parse through and s- and understand [00:44:45] what's real and what's an influencer and- [00:44:46] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:44:47] Kris Carr: you know, and what do I do? And, and we have so [00:44:50] many economic disparities and, and a lack of access to- Right [00:44:53] Kris Carr: really [00:44:55] foundational, um, care needs that, of course, it's gonna, it's gonna happen more and [00:45:00] more. And when you see younger and younger people who are dealing with so much, you know, increased rates of [00:45:05] depression, anxiety- [00:45:06] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:45:06] Kris Carr: suicide, and a lot of that stems back to social [00:45:10] media and all of that, um, I think we've lost our way when it comes to s- sort of the [00:45:15] basics and the getting back to nature, and back to the foundation, and back to the garden. [00:45:19] Kris Carr: Um, [00:45:20] and I think that's another reason why I like to make it as simple as possible. [00:45:23] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:23] Kris Carr: People say, "I can't afford organic food. [00:45:25] I don't-" Right. [00:45:25] Dr. Taz: I [00:45:25] Kris Carr: was about to ask you that [00:45:26] Dr. Taz: question. Yeah, tell me. Yeah. [00:45:26] Kris Carr: Fine. Just g- what, what can you do? What can you [00:45:30] do? Yeah. As opposed to making it has to be pristine, it has to be, you know, certified XYZ [00:45:35] PDQ. [00:45:36] Kris Carr: It's like, okay, that's great if you can do it, but [00:45:40] you can also get blueberries, and you can also get a bag of, um, whole grain rice, and you can also get some [00:45:45] beans. And, and we can find these practical ways to make it work in your budget, but that you're eating [00:45:50] real food. [00:45:51] Dr. Taz: You know, so many people do say that holistic health is hard, holistic health is [00:45:55] expensive. [00:45:56] Dr. Taz: You know, holistic health is for the privileged. What do you say to [00:46:00] that? [00:46:01] Kris Carr: Y- in some ways it can be marketed that way. [00:46:05] Um, but we can also... And, and y- yes, 100%, we n- it [00:46:10] should be easier for us to eat real food. It should be easier for us [00:46:15] to, um, nourish and care for our bodies, especially in one of the... You know, we're here in the [00:46:20] US, we're here in the United States. [00:46:21] Kris Carr: Right. We're one of the richest, most powerful nations in the world. Um, [00:46:25] it's ridiculous. Our healthcare system is ridiculous. Our- Yeah ... our, uh, our [00:46:30] food system is ridiculous. It's broken. There's no doubt about that. So let's just say yes, [00:46:35] and we gotta hack the system. [00:46:36] Dr. Taz: Yeah, we definitely do. And what... You [00:46:40] know, I'm thinking about your five pillars a- and people listening. [00:46:43] Dr. Taz: Is there one, [00:46:45] if they're trying to nail their starting point in a [00:46:50] healing journey, right? Because you and I are both very aligned in that these are healing journeys. These are not about [00:46:55] curing, these are not about fixing, these are not necessarily about- Yeah ... getting an A on their report card. Which is so [00:47:00] funny to me, because patients all the time are like, "Did I do better? [00:47:02] Dr. Taz: Did I do... How did I do?" You know? So [00:47:05] I'm like, "The numbers are better." Yeah. But like, how are you? You know? So, [00:47:10] but- ... is the starting point stress and cortisol? [00:47:13] Kris Carr: I think that's a great place to [00:47:15] start. [00:47:15] Dr. Taz: I think that's it. [00:47:16] Kris Carr: I think that's a really, really great place to start, because if you don't get that [00:47:20] down, um, you don't see the breakthroughs that you wanna see, you know? [00:47:24] Kris Carr: And, and it, I think [00:47:25] it's also hard to stay motivated and keep going when you're feeling that stress- Yeah ... and you're feeling [00:47:30] that anxiety. Um, it could just be as simple as, hey, multiple times a day I'm [00:47:35] gonna pause and I'm gonna do elongated breathing where my exhale is longer than my [00:47:40] inhale. I'm just gonna take a beat. [00:47:41] Kris Carr: You know, you see these people out on the street, especially in New York City, taking [00:47:45] a cigarette break. [00:47:45] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah. [00:47:46] Kris Carr: And- Wait, is there a cortisol down? Yeah. It's like- Even though they're [00:47:50] smoking ... [00:47:50] Dr. Taz: well, you know- Like inflammation, oxidative stress, oh. You, exactly. [00:47:53] Kris Carr: That is, that is [00:47:55] not my suggestion. [00:47:55] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:47:56] Kris Carr: But the impetus is like, oh, I wanna go outside- Right [00:47:59] Kris Carr: and [00:48:00] take some deep breaths. [00:48:01] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:48:02] Kris Carr: Right? [00:48:02] Dr. Taz: We're not advocating smoking, guys. [00:48:04] Kris Carr: There's no [00:48:05] smoking involved. Right. But it's like, wow, these moments that we could just take [00:48:10] these mindful pauses. And then the other thing I would say is, you know, working on our gut health. [00:48:14] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:48:14] Kris Carr: [00:48:15] Because when we start to feel better, you know, you st- y- anybody out there who's struggled with, um, [00:48:20] problems with elimination or whatever that is, bel- bloating, all of the discomfort that comes from that, [00:48:25] um- I'd say the easiest way to begin is something I call add before you subtract.[00:48:30] [00:48:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. ' [00:48:30] Kris Carr: Cause we wanna stay away from deprivation, so can you do something like add a healthy [00:48:35] smoothie with good fats, and protein, and your phytochemicals, and, you know, fiber, and all the things that are gonna [00:48:40] get the pipes moving, but also fill you with a blast of real nutrition [00:48:45] that's gonna truly fuel your body and that doesn't take much time and energy. [00:48:49] Kris Carr: Right. You don't- [00:48:49] Dr. Taz: [00:48:50] Simple things. [00:48:50] Kris Carr: Yeah, you don't need to know how to cook. [00:48:51] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:48:52] Kris Carr: And all of the stress that can come with that. Like, "Oh, I gotta get a [00:48:55] cookbook and make recipes too." Right. I'll just put it in the blender and go. [00:48:57] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:48:58] Kris Carr: Right? So if you can have your [00:49:00] smoothie and take a deep breath, you're on the path. [00:49:01] Dr. Taz: You're on your way. Now, you've written a number of books. Yes. [00:49:05] Maybe talk for just a second, I know we're pushing up on time here, but talk for just a second about some of your books, [00:49:10] the latest book you mentioned that's coming out and when everyone can maybe get their hands on that, [00:49:15] and then a little bit more about your community and what, you know, somebody who's wanting to join could expect. [00:49:19] Kris Carr: [00:49:20] Yeah, of course. I have lots of books, um- [00:49:23] Dr. Taz: How many books do you have now? [00:49:24] Kris Carr: Seven books. [00:49:24] Dr. Taz: [00:49:25] Seven books? [00:49:25] Kris Carr: Seven books. [00:49:26] Dr. Taz: Oh, my goodness. I know. That's incredible. [00:49:29] Kris Carr: Oh, thank [00:49:30] you. [00:49:30] Dr. Taz: That is incredible. These things are like children. They are children. They, like, are like birthing a [00:49:35] child. I know how much energy that is. [00:49:36] Kris Carr: It, it is, [00:49:37] Dr. Taz: yes. [00:49:37] Dr. Taz: That is incredible. [00:49:37] Kris Carr: Yes, and I have a few unruly teenagers in the [00:49:40] pack. [00:49:41] Dr. Taz: Me too. [00:49:42] Kris Carr: Some of my books are for specifically for [00:49:45] cancer patients, others are people who are interested in an anti-inflammatory plant-based diet, cookbooks [00:49:50] and whatnot. And my most recent book, as I said, which is out, um, is about grief and [00:49:55] loss, and it's- [00:49:55] Dr. Taz: Mm [00:49:56] Kris Carr: the first of a series of books that will be coming out that really handle [00:50:00] what you and I were talking about, which is addressing what's eating you, and moving into if we know that the [00:50:05] mind/body connection is true, I think I'm in the chapter of my life where I'm, I'm writing more about the mind. [00:50:10] [00:50:10] Dr. Taz: Ah. [00:50:10] Kris Carr: Yeah. [00:50:11] Dr. Taz: I love it. [00:50:11] Dr. Taz: I mean, I, I don't know if it's just the [00:50:15] evolution of our journeys, but I'm very much about we can look at [00:50:20] the science from here to infinity. We can talk about randomized controlled trials. We [00:50:25] can look at all the innovation that medicine has to offer, and there's so much value to that, but [00:50:30] if we ignore this other half of us, which is our spirit- Mm [00:50:34] Dr. Taz: and our [00:50:35] emotional experience, even, like, our intergenerational experience, we're missing a [00:50:40] really big piece of the puzzle if we're trying to heal. Yeah. You know? All right, I'm gonna leave you with [00:50:45] one last question, and I think you've answered it, but what makes you whole? [00:50:50] [00:50:50] Kris Carr: Oh, well, moments like this- [00:50:52] Dr. Taz: Ah ... [00:50:52] Kris Carr: that are so- I [00:50:53] Dr. Taz: love it [00:50:54] Kris Carr: wonderful- Yeah ... and [00:50:55] nourishing and fun. Um, and then I just will just go back to [00:51:00] and s- and say it again, that idea of, like, we can't amputate our emotions- Yeah ... and expect to be happy, [00:51:05] healthy, functioning people who, like, walk through life feeling peaceful and, and really [00:51:10] self-loving. And so getting to a, continuing to get to a place where the parts of [00:51:15] me that are not, um, what I put on, in my bio, let's say. [00:51:19] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:51:19] Kris Carr: They're not the [00:51:20] ones that I, I f- [00:51:20] Dr. Taz: Angry, mean, irritable. Yeah. [00:51:23] Kris Carr: But I'm like, "You're [00:51:25] okay too." Yeah. You know? And, and you must have something that you wanna share with me, so let me be loving [00:51:30] and curious and get to know what's going on, because I'm, I'm here to help me and, and here to help [00:51:35] others, and so that's my journey. [00:51:37] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh, this has been such a gift [00:51:40] and such a treat. I've ... It, I'm ... I, like I said in the beginning, I'm [00:51:45] giddy because I have followed you forever, and I know your work, and, you know, [00:51:50] those of us that started out kind of in the Dark Ages, you know- Yeah ... it's so [00:51:55] incredible- ... to, like, share our journeys together, and you're, you're just one of those, you know, shining lights in the [00:52:00] space, for sure. [00:52:01] Dr. Taz: You know, for everybody who wants to join you in what you're doing and wants to [00:52:05] tap into your universe and doesn't know how, where can they find you? [00:52:08] Kris Carr: Kriscarr.com [00:52:09] Dr. Taz: is the easiest. That's easy [00:52:10] enough. Yeah. Thank you so much. Sending you the biggest hug. Thank you for joining me today. [00:52:14] Kris Carr: [00:52:15] Thanks for having me. [00:52:15] Dr. Taz: Thank you so much for listening and watching today's episode of Whole+. Be [00:52:20] sure to share this episode with your friends and family, and if you haven't already, please take a moment to [00:52:25] subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, Spotify, or wherever it [00:52:30] is that you get your podcasts. [00:52:31] Dr. Taz: And don't forget to follow me on all social channels at [00:52:35] DrTazMD. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.