Latest / Beyond The Trailhead / LOWA USA GM Lance Taylor | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 50

Transcript

LOWA USA GM Lance Taylor | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 50 · Beyond The Trailhead

• speaker-0: Alright everyone, welcome back to an exciting episode of Beyond the Trailhead. This week we got a spectacular, I say spectacular because I've used ⁓ their boots before ⁓ in the past and currently using some of their trail runners right now, but ⁓ we have Lance Taylor with Loa. How are you doing, Lance? speaker-1: Doing great today. How are you doing? speaker-0: Awesome. Thanks for being on. I appreciate it. it's great to hear a little bit from a you know a larger brand. We have a lot of garage growing brands on here, but I think larger brands really kind of can bring it bring it down to earth for people who are maybe wanting to grow and stuff like that. And I think you have a lot of experience ⁓ in the outdoor space that people can can kind of glean from, and I can glean from too. ⁓ so I will you usually do this with everybody's just without further ado, just kind of Throw it over to you, your experiences in the outdoor space, and then how long you've been with Loa, and then exactly who Loa is as a brand. speaker-1: Yeah, sure. ⁓ so I've been in the outdoor industry now for close to twenty-five years. ⁓ always in footwear, ⁓ in some way, shape, or form. ⁓ I actually started my career selling women's shoes at Dillard's in college. ⁓ and that's that's kind of where I I gained a passion for footwear, ⁓ for quality construction and ⁓ and you know, I and even then I I I tend to really gravitate toward the outdoor. categories even you know even back in those days and ⁓ you know as I was going through college just trying to figure out exactly what I wanted to do with my life and ⁓ you know I graduated I I sales are kind of what I was always doing and you know I I was interviewing and had a couple different job offers for some sales jobs that would have been you know nice pay out of out of college but ⁓ you know at that same time Solomon had made an announcement that they were moving to Ogden, Utah where I live. and ⁓ and I kind of immediately my attention kind of shifted and was like, ooh, this could be, you know, this could be really interesting. and and that was that was kind of where I I gravitated toward and I I started there in in customer service. ⁓ it for, you know, a year or so, moved into the footwear category pretty quickly as that was again where kind of my background and and passion was. And so worked in the kind of category management for a couple of couple of years and then was a rep in the Rockies for a couple of years and then ran the footwear category for a couple of years. ⁓ so did done kind of a variety of of different things. And ⁓ yeah, I I I chose to join Loa ⁓ about eighteen months ago now. ⁓ sweet. And so it's it's still relatively fresh. ⁓ but it kind of also feels like an eternity. We've done a lot in in the past eighteen months. Yeah. ⁓ but yeah, I I you know it was a tra I've always I've always respected Loa. ⁓ especially even dating back to my Dillard's days where I really gained a value for injection molded PU construction. And Loa was really the brand who was doing that in outdoor. ⁓ so I've always kind of had my eye on Loa of just being interested in in the brand, always w respected the quality ⁓ that they you know they stood behind in the craftsmanship. And ⁓ so yeah, and then when you know an opportunity came that I could I was able to to lead the brand for the US, I I I jumped at it and super happy. Now eighteen months later. Yeah. Still still happy that I made that choice. speaker-0: No, that's cool. And I it correct me if I'm wrong, Loa's a it's an Italian is it an Italian brand or is it a German brand? That's right, that's right. German brand. And it's been around since like World War speaker-1: German brand One yeah, nineteen nineteen twenty three. Yeah, nineteen nineteen twenty three. So it's been a long been a long time. ⁓ the the brand is headquarters in Jetzendorf, Germany, which is just a little bit north of Munich. ⁓ so it's it's ⁓ kind of the the access to the Alps are just a little south of Munich. And so just just north of Munich is where the the headquarters are. So they're really, you know, in the very close to the Alps and that's kind of, you know, the the DNA and and ⁓ inspiration I think that the brand has had really all since the beginning. But ⁓ there's not many brand footwear brands out there that are over a hundred years old and the the rich heritage that that this brand carries, and and really their craftsmanship and their ability to make shoes, I've been kind of blown away with. They're they're extremely proficient and ⁓ yeah, just just a really awesome brand to to to affiliate with. speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, I I we talked about this ⁓ before we got on that ⁓ I was gonna mention, you know, with we can go straight into it even with hiking boots. and I've you know, when I first started ⁓ in hiking in the outdoor space and everything else, I think a lot of us had ⁓ hiking boots. I know I've had a pair of Lows back when I was ⁓ younger and and I now that, you know, trail runners are kind of taking over the outdoor space when it comes at least to hiking. You know, you're still using boots when you're in the alpine or when you're in in certain situations you still need hiking boots. But ⁓ I guess I'll go straight into that question I even asked you offline was, you know, with you know, trail runners and the traditional hiking boot, you know, you know, you hear people say it's quote unquote like dying. and trail runners are taking over. What is Loa doing to kind of ⁓ work in that space and and kind of get that before, you know? Not saying that you're you know, you're dying, but like, you know, some brands they die off because they don't change. And I think I see Loa with their trail runners and stuff like that that they're coming out with, you know, saying, Hey, we're gonna we're gonna do this thing and do it but do it better and properly. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. I think it's a good question, one especially directed toward Loa in particular, because our our heritage has really been boots. ⁓ you know, where we've it's it's leat leather boots, construct PU construction, and that's from the top of the mountain, you know, down. And whether that be from mountaineering boots to backpacking boots to to hiking. ⁓ and so you're absolutely right. There has been a trend more and more toward lighter and faster footwear. I think ⁓ is as technologies have changed and people's seeing people seeing the the value and benefit of having light footwear in a mountain setting is become more and more appealing for for more people. You know, we we've always needed grip stability and protection when we go into the outdoors and boots were kind of the best way to go about doing that. And there's still a great time and place for that. And there's still a b big chunk of the population who prefer a boot. They they buy for their, you know. or spheres oftentimes they want to be prepared and ⁓ and and so we we still do very well with our boots. We're we're actually still growing in our boot segment. ⁓ so it's we we haven't seen like a significant fall off. And I think some of that might be ⁓ you know we've got a unique approach to the the way we build a lot of the boots. Like you look at the Lowell Renegade. It was the first injection molded outdoor shoe ⁓ back in nineteen ninety seven and it's still it's still growing. and there's it it's gone been going for so long now that there, you know, some of the trends have come back around and there's definitely some ⁓ some heritage retro ⁓ you know, appeal that we're seeing there. And I we actually see a big a wave of younger people who are wearing it. I think it's you know, for sure with a fashion sense, I think even as much as they are speaker-0: No, totally. Sorry to cut you off, but like my my daughter wants to wear like the big baggy pants and then the hiking boots versus I'm like I'm like, put these trail runners on. You don't necessarily need these boots but they you know, she's like, I wanna look I wanna Yeah. So no what continues, sorry. speaker-1: No, it it it absolutely is. But but ⁓ it is important for us to to grow and evolve and adapt with ⁓ an ever changing outdoor consumer. And I think that's one thing Loa and one reason I was ⁓ excited and a big question mark I had was kind of what you what you just mentioned is I saw I've seen the trends, I know where things have been going and ⁓ and and I I was curious what Loa was doing to to address that, right? Were we just gonna ride ride what who we've been, our heritage for, you know, indefinitely or was there any additional ⁓ innovation, you know, areas, new segments, new channel categories we were looking to target. And and that's that's where ⁓ we we really I had great discussions and again it led to me joining the brand was was ⁓ you know we've got that kind of traditional outdoor consumer unlock pretty well. ⁓ sure we can grow with within there. I think there's still a lot of people who don't know about Loa and and so we've got a lot of work to do there. ⁓ but it was really the where you're gonna see innovation coming really starting spring twenty seven. So just in in a few short months here, five months or so, ⁓ you're gonna start seeing a lot of products that are really more targeting kind of the more modern outdoor consumer. ⁓ and and also that athletic outdoor consumer. And so those are kind of our three pillars that that we're we're we're targeting. and and so some of that we're doing through you know categories. I think trail running in particular definitely addresses that more athletic outdoor consumer who's looking for trail runners to to use as multifunction shoes. But then also, you know, we we get we need to make sure we're bringing innovation there as well because nobody needs another trail running brand just making a trail running shoe. And and so that was also an area that I I had confidence in the team with that that, you know, they're they had such a rich heritage of innovation and that that was gonna something they were going to bring. I've been exceptionally impressed with Hendrik Enders, who was our head of product. And ⁓ some of the things he's been able to bring ⁓ to the table have been just just really pretty amazing. I mean, one example that's the shooter. In ⁓ in this this Pace Terra Pro. So this is a new shoe. ⁓ you can actually see it's a little translucent. I've got my paper still in there shaping it. ⁓ but it's ⁓ super ⁓ lightweight matrix upper on this. ⁓ my one of my favorite things is we're using a a T PEEE midsole, ⁓ which is speaker-0: That's cool. speaker-1: Crazy lightweight. This shoe's 200 grams, so it's one of the lightest throwing shoes on the market. ⁓ but this T P E E, why I love it, is it's ⁓ it it's it's a great balance of cushioning and energy return. And it's got a lot more longevity than what you have with your standard EVA shoes. Yeah. ⁓ so it goes it'll go for quite a while. You're gonna probably blow through the outsole and the upper before you go through the midsole, which is pretty which is not common most of the time. The midsole is always what what dies the quickest. ⁓ but we're doing a a Vibram ⁓ outsole on this, mega grip outsole as well. So this thing really has all the bells and whistles. ⁓ I think my very favorite part about this shoe though is ⁓ I I can geek out on shoes. Sorry, I'm going to get red bull. speaker-0: No, no, I love hearing like all this like details on on stuff. It's amazing to me how people figure out, you know, how to create things like this. speaker-1: Yeah, and d in different ways of you know, how can you do things just slightly different to get a you know a a significantly different result? And and that's what I think Hendrick and the team has done such a good job with. So one thing they they've done is the insole on this is a is a really premium TPE material as well. So we've got a a super critical ⁓ foam that we're using on the insole. But the coolest part, I don't know if you can see it much on the camera, but you can see kind of the this kind of horseshoe shape on the interior there. So that's the actually the the perimeter you see is what what would have been like the stroble board. That's how you close the upper when you're when you're lasting the shoe. And and this is more of like a stroble frame. So after it's closed, they're actually removing the interior part of that board, that stroble board. And as a result, you get the direct transmission right down through the insole that's TPE or TPE right down to the the the the midsole without having anything inhibiting it. So that feel underfoot is is pretty remarkable. So amazing cushioning, amazing ⁓ energy return, super lightweight and a shoe that's really gonna carry, you know, pretty pretty quite a few miles as well. ⁓ yeah. The pro version, we're making one in ⁓ the there's a pace terra pro two ⁓ just two ten. We're gonna have one we have one at ⁓ one eighty as well. It has some slightly different ⁓ elements on the upper but same still down base exact same. So that's some real innovation, things that are we're bringing to the market that that that mean something to the consumer. And also I think, you know, show kind of answer the question as to why Loa in in trail running. So some some pretty exciting things ⁓ happening. It's one of many. You see the flow terror quarter cut, you more that again faster, lighter ⁓ approach to to hiking as well. So it's not just in our trail running category. ⁓ it's also the hiking, we're we're bringing it a ton of more innovation there that really addresses that ever changing ⁓ consumer as well. speaker-0: Yeah. No, those ⁓ I always say like look good and r look good, run good, you know? So or look good, hike good, whatever whatever you wanna do it. But they those look good and they're they're kind of like, ⁓ I like I I have a I was saying this before too, like I have a race coming up in ⁓ a few weeks and I'm like, Okay, I gotta I wanna look good when I'm running too, 'cause I wanna have good I don't know, I wanna have a good picture at the race. And I want to look intimidating sometimes, right? Even though I might not win, I just want to look like like the the movie star on on the thing. But ⁓ but that's cool. And I guess it that brings up a question that I've always wanted to ask is why do you think, especially a shoe guy, is why do you think people when they do hiking, why do they just go to trail runners and not go to a hiking specific shoe? Why is it why has the industry gone to It's it's literally a trail runner, but they're like, ⁓ I'm gonna use this for hiking, but they're never gonna really run in it. But yet there's a difference in the cushion and stuff when you're pushing off versus hiking. So why not go for a a hiking specific shoe? speaker-1: Yeah, it's it's a great question and one where we've been trying to ask ourselves of some of the hiking numbers have slipped into trail running, right? So clearly the consumer's speaking with their wallet there in many cases in terms of expressing what they want in a shoe and that that lighter, faster, sneaker feel is clearly what they're opting more toward, right? And so I think it's important that as we look at the light hiking category is, you know, do we just keep doing the same, you know, the same things we've been doing, which is make a low cut version of a mid. ⁓ you know, with the same, you know, beefy platform underfoot. Again, there's a time and a place for for those, but you know, but more and more a bigger growing segment of the market is is opting to a lighter product. I think one of the challenges that we face is oftentimes people buy the trail runner and then they get in the outdoors and they they you know they they blow it out a lot quicker their their hiking shoes because oftentimes some of the terrain and some of the practices that that people are using them for they weren't really intended. to to do, right? If you make a shoe lighter and faster, oftentimes it's not going to hold up quite as much as as something that's a little more robust and more burly. And so I think that's the the million dollar question, ⁓ you know, as we look to the future is how can we take attributes that are in trulunners and and apply them more for light hiking practices that are more adapted for a hiking stride and and and have that underfoot cushioning but still offer that higher level of durability ⁓ and stability that you really want in a hiker. You know, so the shoot's providing some of that assistance for you. And that's ⁓ I got I got some really exciting things I can't talk about yet. Yeah. Spring twenty eight ⁓ that are coming in the pipeline ⁓ that address really that that exact question in a in a again a super unique ⁓ and innovative way. speaker-0: Yeah. No, I'm I'm so fascinated with with shoes, especially this is even b after I already knew that you were gonna be coming on the podcast, I had just finished doing a photo shoot. It was for a bag, but it was ⁓ we were using runners and some of them are like trying to qualify for the Olympics and then others are like crazy marathon people. And so we were talking about shoes because me being a hiker, I was just using a trail runner and then ⁓ I knew there were some comfort issues with some of the shoes that I was using, but I'm like, okay, I'm still gonna use it for for hiking. And then you know, they're talking about the different materials and everything, 'cause you they're like, Okay, I need speed, I need push, I need bounce, I need all these and I was like, ⁓ I think people need to kind of go into the category that they're like if they're need a hiking shoe, maybe they should go for more of a hiking shoe. Cause I'm getting, you know, blisters in a certain shoe and when I run in them, I have no problems. But the minute I start hiking in that same trail runner, I'm getting blisters. And I'm like, why am I getting blisters when I'm just walking versus when I'm running, I'm having no problems? But it's it's all about my st the stride and and and all these different things. And so I think it's great that Loa brought you on to kind of say, Hey, like ⁓ not that they need like help but like hey you ⁓ know this category let's go and push forward with it instead of a lot of the brands that just kind of fall off that have you know been around for fifty a hundred years and now you never hear about them because they just choose to not innovate and change and one of the things I like because I I have a pair of your trailrunners too is like they look really good too. ⁓ so I'm like ⁓ sweet. One, they look good, they feel good. I like going downhill in these, ⁓ and I don't know what it is with the the treads and stuff, but going downhill, ⁓ I have so much more grip than other shoes that I run in that I'm like, ⁓ I I it it's like I'm glued to the trail. And ⁓ so from your background and your perspective, what have you seen over the years? Not specific to Loa necessarily, but just ⁓ in the shoe category and the trail running and the hiking industry and stuff like that, what are some changes that you see in the past that have changed now, like what we were just talking about with boots to trail running. Mm-hmm. And then in the future where you think you kind of see it going. speaker-1: Yeah, I think again, if we look the past, I think you look at the last ten years in particular, and and that's where you've seen so many more people opting toward lighter, faster footwear. I think when you see what's happened with with Hoka, you know, the Hoka effect ⁓ throughout throughout all categories. ⁓ you know, they they're you know, cushioning have has always been in all the surveys. If you look at runners that, you know, different surveys that ⁓ that the the running industry has put out there, you know, typically the one that's come back is the number one attribute people want in their shoe. is cushioning. And that's pretty ambiguous word and it means something a little differently to everybody. but but no question that that comfort, that cush, that that, you know, ⁓ that sensation is clearly what consumers value. And that really started with the run side and and then that's kind of grown and bled in to the outdoors. So ⁓ where, you know, a lot of a lot of brands, like I would say Loa in particular and other, you know, especially European brands have really we've started our quest at the mountain and kind of come down the mountain a little bit. And and then you have other brands who started on the road and kind of work their way up. And you kind of have this fusion happening, I think, with ⁓ with some of the benefits of of both. ⁓ but but but there's no question that lighter, faster feel is has been what what the appeal is. But again, there's some cons to that as well as far as some of the times you compromise stability if you go with two cushioned up amidst ⁓ sometimes push through protection is overlooked, you know, when people take some of those products into terrain that may be a little more rocks and roots and things like that. ⁓ like in my area of the of the Wasatch ⁓ in the Rockies. So it if like that's that's been the trend. We've we've seen that, that that's kind of what's been going on over the past ⁓ past couple of ⁓ really at least decade, probably even a little longer than that. ⁓ but that again that that push and light, light and fast has been been the trend and been the momentum and you've got you've got a lot of great brands out there. I mean, I think of ⁓ Merrill and the Moab ⁓ model, you know, that's it's been just an icon in the industry for such a long time. And, you know, the they first launched that Moab speed gosh, I can't remember how long ago it was, but it was quite some time ago. And it took some time before that started to really become a a significant player in in Outdoor because you know they they were again more traditional and they've they've they've They've seen the need to expand and make lighter, faster, more ⁓ more athletic forward design silhouettes and and functionality. And you know, that's one example. And there's there's a bunch out there I could I could reference as well. But ⁓ so that's been happening. And then I I do think is it's kind of a ref I mentioned a little earlier, as we as we go forward, I think it's it's going to be really important to to make sure that we ⁓ aren't just taking a trail runner and putting instead of like, you know, taking a boot and cutting the the cuff off of it and calling it our light hiker, we're not doing the exact same thing on the trail running side where we're getting a trail runner and we just put a a mid cuff on it. Right. There's a ti again, there's a place for that. ⁓ it's in it's it's it's an important segment and there's there's a consumer there. But I think we we need to ⁓ we need really a fusion of hike and trail, even more so where we keep the durability. ⁓ and stability of hiking because there's a ton of there's a ton of value and you you're doing a mountain sport, you use a mountain product. And and if you ⁓ you know you having that that that durability and that protection is is pretty key. And sometimes you go too far down the spec you know down the down the spectrum of ⁓ a trail runner, sometimes, you know, you don't get quite all those same attributes 'cause maybe you opted for cushion or lightweight a little bit more than you know. So where's that that Goldilocks zone? Yeah. Think is is gonna be what the quest is to find and And ⁓ we're we're I'm again, I'm super excited about a a technology we're bringing that really kind of fuses from a material based standpoint, ⁓ both trail running and hiking in a way that isn't hasn't really been done before. and we'll bring, yeah, some some innovation there that that's that will address literally exactly what you're ⁓ what you're discussing. But we'll be ready for that in spring twenty eight. speaker-0: Yeah. That's cool. ⁓ man, I'm looking forward to spring twenty-eight. So ⁓ so ⁓ we like to help people, you know, who have a business in the outdoor space or are just an entrepreneur kind of listening and stuff like that. So, you know, we're you were just talking about the the evolution of it and stuff like that. So from a a larger company's perspective, especially kind of going from boots to to shoes, for example, ⁓ to the trailrunners and stuff. Like what kind of feedback do you like to get from customers versus what you just like to go ahead and do yourself and and from your knowledge of the industry? Cause I know some people have a hard time taking ⁓ feedback from customers because then it's f for most people, it's their own company. And so they really take it to heart, right? They get it hurts. And I'm sure even from your perspective, you don't own the company, but yet you're really engrossed in designing shoe the shoe and everything else. So when someone gives you feedback, like what kind of feedback is good for a company to want to get back from a from a customer? speaker-1: There's there's a variety of different philosophical thoughts, I think, on on that one out there. And I've worked it in the over the over the course of my career with people on both sides of of that spectrum, you know, of you know, how much do you do do do you let customers and retailers basically build your brand for you and just do what they say? Or how how do you keep that unique DNA, you know, that it's it's and I think it's it's important to have a balance of both of those things. ⁓ you know, you don't want to just make another just another product. You know, you needs to there needs to be some soul, some story, some ⁓ you know, some innovation that you let your design team kind of able to blossom with, ⁓ and have that creativity. 'Cause sometimes you can take the creativity aspect out if we're just, you know, marching orders of, you know, the just attributes. ⁓ and so again you need you need the fusion of those things. And ⁓ I think it's it's important. I definitely lean on the side throughout my career of ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: we have to solicit feedback from the customer. The customer understands the consumer better. They're with them every day in, day out. They've got demographics oftentimes on them that the weed up may not have. and and listening to, you know, what their needs are and then and then better being able to position yourself as a solution to those needs is is a huge ⁓ aspect of success and and one I've definitely been able to realize through throughout my career. So working with key partners, ⁓ both on the consumer side, ⁓ but also ⁓ you know, just with with with retailers, ⁓ to to make sure we're articulating the commercial need in our market is is paramount, right? Otherwise you're left with with I mean the the brand loses you know, you may be you may be in Yetzendorck Germany and you may keep your, you know, goggles on just in Yetzendorck Germany and And you're not making something that 'cause you have different needs, right? Every mount every every outdoor community has some slightly different needs. And so and the US is no exception to that. Yeah. ⁓ the consumer behavior is slightly different than than maybe in Europe and and the and the product need is also slightly different. And so we have to have that input if we're gonna make a you know internationalization of of a brand. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that brings up another good question is how, you know, for someone who is a small brand, let's say, and they they like, ⁓ I want to go global, right? What are some pains that they're like, hey, maybe you just want to stay US based for a while, you know, because once you go global, this headache pops up or this h pops up, or even like you're saying, the the markets are different, you know, like I mean, for example, you're in Utah and I'm in Georgia, so our needs are completely different. But now you're going across the globe and weather I everything is even more different. So from a global perspective for for let's say brand X that's just started, what would you say to them if you were like, hey, just do A, B, and C? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of different models out there. ⁓ I think it ⁓ i if you're a US brand, you're looking to go broader, I think for sure get your own house in order first. I think you gotta understand if if you can't win at home, it's gonna be exceptionally difficult to win abroad. ⁓ and so you once you've kind of figured out who you are and really understand the consumer, then you then and and you've started to get some proof of that concept through success, I think that's the time in which you look at it ⁓ it it broadening. Otherwise you run into brand awareness recognition issues, ⁓ you know, that and the and the brand oftentimes it kind of gets a little, you know, it's its positioning gets a little not sideways, but a little variance from from maybe what it is at home because everything, you know, everything's slightly adapted and adjusted for that market. ⁓ so you gotta make sure you've got a good footing and foundation to to keep the the brand identity, I think. But that's that's the the sequence I would I would be looking at. speaker-0: Yeah. No, because I've talked to some some of the clients that I shot over the years, they're smaller brands, and then they ask me advice and like I'm I hear them always saying, like, I want to do this and this. And I'm like, man, first you just need to, like you said, get your house in order, like stay get that brand recognition and then make it grow. I think again, I always reference social media, but social media is a great way to quickly grow brand awareness if you know how to do it right. ⁓ and going going from that global side to, you know, staying local, it can also be like I think people want fast growth too quickly. speaker-1: Exactly. That's what I was gonna say is it's that that no you you start to get a little, you know, you're you you see dollar signs in your eyeballs and and and sometimes you you can miss the mark because you get too overambitious and you know, you gotta you gotta be patient. You know, Run wasn't built in the day, it takes years to build franchises within footwear. You know, you it takes it takes time and you gotta you gotta be patient with it if you're really gonna have a a firm foundation to be able to have that kind of extension on. speaker-0: Yeah. And I I think footwear would be a I mean, it can't be an easy category to get into 'cause I mean, you could always say every category is oversaturated, but you know, with footwear, it's hard a harder thing to manufacture 'cause you've got so much variation in feet. I can't imagine how much testing you guys must go through ⁓ with, you know, s probably sending I'm I'm sure you had shoes out on U T ⁓ B, you know, and and everything else and probably getting feedback from that. ⁓ it's always funny watching when I watch U T and B I'm watching shoes and going, I know those are not out yet. I'm looking at athletes going, ⁓ they're running in a shoe that's not yes not out on the market. speaker-1: U T ⁓ B is a good place to do that 'cause most people are running in prototypes and most of the time they're either all blacked out or there's something you know in a non commercial color to try to be a little incognito 'cause they're they're most that that is a testing ground, right? I mean ⁓ no no question. speaker-0: Yeah. But ⁓ it would it's interesting to me that someone would run like a big race on potentially something that you know not that it would fall apart, but like, hey, this is a this is a prototype. And then you get out there on your big race and then all of a sudden you're you're like testing out a shoe versus on something that you're a hundred percent confident in and would if if someone does that, would they typically be running more they've had that shoe for a while, they're not just going straight out. speaker-1: It's not like this is our first go. Let's go jump on a Miller. Yeah. They've they've they've certainly usually had some time in that product and have have liked and given feedback and made minor tweaks to that product to get to this version that they're they're testing on a distance, something like that. That they're competing in. speaker-0: Cause there's some there's some products that I've had in my office now for over a year and a half that I don't think people who are creating they have an idea and they're trying to get it out into the market. They don't realize how patient you have to be. Cause I had this I've had this product for a year and a half. It's still not out. They're still having problems with manufacturing that I'm just like, I want to be able to use this product on camera and stuff like that, because it's such a good product. But I can't show it and I'm like, man, this sucks. So I guess going into the O crap moments that we usually talk about, is there any O crap moments either from you being at Loa over the last 18 months or at Solomon or just in the industry that you're like, man, you could definitely learn from my mistake. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm I'm sure I've got a a ton of ⁓ crap moments I could probably reference. I think one of probably one more recent memory would would be the ⁓ was was really taking over Loa, right? I mean it's a it was a it was a big big task for sure. ⁓ I don't know if you you're aware of this. We we did a ⁓ a a pretty massive reorganization and relocation of the company. So we were in Stanford, Connecticut. and ⁓ we we moved the company here. We restructured the company. and ⁓ we integrated a little bit more some of our backend functions with our parent company Technica. ⁓ so just just really modernized ⁓ some of the structure ⁓ as well. But I think the the oak crap moment was was really when I took over the reins for Peter Sachs, who's an icon ⁓ in the industry and had done amazing things for for this brand. I mean he made such great commercial and distribution decisions that really kept brand equity, you know, really, really premium. And ⁓ you know, and I've I've just really taken over the reins from him as was kind of that ⁓ crap moment, you know, and especially seeing the task we had ahead that we were gonna be, you know, moving moving the company, ⁓ you know, to the to the Rockies. And so that that's the one I would say most that it was kind of my my biggest ⁓ crap moment in in aside from that, I would say that you know, when I I started feeling like, okay, this is really gonna work. ⁓ I'd say probably like March time frame of this year. Because we we just we we we moved all the kind of customer facing functions of customer service, ⁓ marketing, sales, commercial to the office here in Salt Lake in in just May. Uh-huh. It's been it's pretty fresh. And then we're we we're just wrapping up actually. speaker-0: ⁓ speaker-1: converting moving from our our how owned DC in Stanford to a 3PL ⁓ that's a little more centrally located in the country. And so all these things are really built so that we could we could put some scale to the the brand and to the business. ⁓ but that the time I really started feeling most confident and kind of that ⁓ crap feeling started to subside a little bit ⁓ was was probably like March timeframe where I I've got, you know, an outstanding sales director in Thomas LeServe. I got a planning manager and Modger and my my CS manager, Preston Hugh, that we, you know, they were two months in at that time and they really started implementing their processes and structure. And I kind of kind of seeing things come together and we kind of had that initial vision and maybe light at the end of the tunnel. and and that luckily that light has grown and grown and grown ⁓ to where we're we're just about out of the woods on some of the the pain points of of a massive transition like that. speaker-0: Yeah. No, I can't imagine moving a huge office and space and team and the restructuring and everything involved is a a huge pain in the butt. And especially when you're restructuring a company. Cause I just did headshots for a company that's ⁓ restructuring and and moving and they're only moving two miles down the down the road into a new ⁓ huge building for the small building they were in before. And I mean, coming from where you are where where you were to to Loa, you know, I guess the stress has gotta be, you know, huge. I'm I I'm I can t handle stress pretty good, but I'm also like a would of a I see like the worst possible scenario versus other people who are like super chill and they're like, ⁓ I got this, it's good. ⁓ so I I'm sure you you took the the stress in stride. But it sounds like you guys are rock and roll now. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, th no question, there's a lot of stress. You know, there's always gonna be a lot of stress and you can you can get sucked into the what ifs. ⁓ you know, I tell tell my kids this all the time is you know, like if they if they started a question with what if, then you gotta recognize it because that's typically anxiety talking. Yeah. And and so I yes, there's there's things we need to be prepared for and and cautious about ⁓ in in something like that. But I think that you know, the seeing the opportunity was what kind of keeps keep keeps me going. And I, I mean, seeing the potential and the vision that we had for this brand is, you know, from the get go is really been kind of that North Star. And and, you know, and and luckily I've been fortunate enough to ⁓ you know, be mentored from many people over the course of my career, learn from many other people of, you know, what what works, what doesn't, and kind of what we needed in terms of structure, organization, and ⁓ kind of task management throughout the company to to enable us to scale to the level that we have a have an objective to do. And so I've I've got a lot of confidence because of that, luckily. ⁓ and that that also kind of, you know, helps stay your hand when when stressful things happen. Like maybe your warehouse implementation's taking longer than what was originally planned and budgeted. ⁓ you know, there's there's no question there's been a lot of curve balls and and a lot of things to, you know, and learnings, I mean new learnings every day and discovery on so many things every day. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: You know, 'cause we got a lot of new people and we have this great fusion of great industry professionals that we brought in, mixed with ⁓ you know, some of the great people that Lo has Lois always had. So we've got a great fusion of of energy and ⁓ and and also, you know, chain strong change management ⁓ skills, I think, with with what everybody's gone through and ⁓ and it's it's really forged the team to really create an all star team here in in Salt Lake and Yeah, I couldn't couldn't be happier with ⁓ with where everybody's heads are, how they're treating each other and the output that they're ⁓ that that they're producing. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's cool. I guess that kind of brings me into this question. Then like what's ⁓ like can you tell me a moment when a customer story or customer review hits you really hard? And then also from a larger company perspective, do you tend to share those stories with the team? I know th I used to work at a company like ever on our staff meetings, we'd kind of tell a couple of good testimonies that we heard from the past week to kind of get everybody hype for for the whole week. Coming up. speaker-1: We do that. We still have well weekly staff meetings. ⁓ we typically kick off the each staff meeting with ⁓ with with ⁓ staying true to one of our values. We we really make sure we're we we we take the time to recognize one another and so something somebody did for another team member week we'll we'll have somebody chime in and share with the team and what that did for them and and it's really become ⁓ you know a a something we all look forward to. Yeah because it takes you out of the day-to-day task driven, mundane, you know, things that can really wear you down and it it helps you keep your, you know, rise above that a little and see the bigger purpose. And I think I draw a lot of motivation from that. I think the team draws a lot of motivation from that. As far as you know, consumer reviews, we do certainly share a lot of those. ⁓ we've we really I mean one thing I've been amazed with is is the people who know Loa love Loa. ⁓ and and the ⁓ you know their their stories, their testimonials are are certainly inspiring. You know, ones I think that are probably some of the most inspiring for me have been have come from ⁓ the the tactical channel. So we we do make military boots. I we we we're being a boot specialist, that's an area where ⁓ you know, some of our our ⁓ construction methodology makes it outstanding tactical boot. ⁓ and and so we'll be at ⁓ we've been at many military shows and I'll have military men and women ⁓ come to the booth and and just tell us what the boots have meant to them in in in in the field. Yeah. And the, you know, I I I you you tend if you've ever gone on like a multi-day backpacking trip, by the end of your trip, you have an emotional connection with your gear. ⁓ because it it survived you, right? It got you got through and you have a connection with it, an experience that was linked specifically to that. So you get this connection with it. And so I think I take that. And I times it by, you know, tenfold ⁓ with with the people whose lives were on the line. Yeah. and hearing their stories about how the boots helped save their lives or they packed somebody out with, you know, wearing the boots. And I, you know, it's it's they're super inspiring stories and and they they ⁓ they they remind me of the the deeper, you know, meaning and cause of, you know, what what we're trying to do. speaker-0: Yeah. No, I've I've ha I have friends in different military and stuff like that and and when they have uncomfortable shoes, they're like, Man, the one thing that they hate the most is having to go and and ruck for how many miles and hours and if you have something that's comfortable, I could see how they would come like groveling at your feet like thank you because you've saved my feet 'cause n people always think with backpacking you carry a lot until you meet friends in the military and they're ⁓ They've got sixty, eighty pounds, you know, it's all ammo and they're just going and they've got to suck it up. They can't complain at all. Yeah, it's another level. So yeah, that I mean that's that's awesome. ⁓ I guess the last two questions I have is what ⁓ you know, if your business was a trail or so if Lowell was a trail, and this is a great question to ask because most of the time I ask this question and the business has been around for One to five years, maybe. Yeah. Maybe ten years. ⁓ but if if your business was a trail, what kind would it be and what mile are you on? speaker-1: It's a good question. I would I would say if we were a trail, we would definitely be ascending a peak. ⁓ we're constantly climbing, constantly ⁓ you know, ⁓ elevating our altitude. it's tough. The ascent's always tough. ⁓ that's that's definitely where where we're at right now. I don't know that we ever want to come down from that ascent. you know it's that's the that's the path I think that that we're on. And as far as where we're at on that trail. I mean we're we're not very far up it right now. ⁓ from my my vision where I really want to take the brand. ⁓ you know, I'd say we're we're ten to fifteen percent up up the hill. And and that maybe we you know, we probably we may we were at a base camp for some time. and and now it's it's time to to to to innovate and to really launch Loa two point and ⁓ y we're We're in the middle of that right now. We've got a huge brand relaunch that's coming in spring twenty seven. You may have seen some of the ⁓ stuff rotating here behind me. That's some of the imagery. some of the new brand logo. and ⁓ and it is kind of that that that that ⁓ it's it's much more emotionally connected brand, I think. We've always made great product, but ⁓ that emotional connection is so important and it it it really is what kind of welds you to that outdoor experience. And and I think Lo is just really on the the verge of of really kind of making some serious noise in the outdoor world with a lot of the innovation we're bringing, but also the I think the appeal the brand ⁓ is is bringing with this relaunch. So that's that's where I'd say we're we're at on that trail. speaker-0: No, I like how you said the the ascent, but then you also said how hard it it you don't want to come down from that, but it's also really hard, especially usually at the peak, you know. If I mean we could of course like say Everest, for example, right? It's that that last bit is really, really hard. And but it's it's always great to just hear from somebody who has to come into a brand and you know help innovate and refresh it and stuff like that and know like we have to do this as companies. And ⁓ not just again s sit on our laurels and ⁓ I I wish that it's like when you tell your kids like ⁓ to go and do something and they won't listen to you. Right? And they have to hear it from a stranger, right? Sometimes Yeah. And you're like, Well, I've told you that a hundred times. Yeah. And so now like you could be someone that was at the company for years saying something, but then they needed fresh ears to finally come in and say, speaker-1: Crazy. speaker-0: Hey, I think we needed to do it like this. And they're like, ⁓ yeah, we need to do it like that. And you're like, but I've been saying that for years. I've been at this company for 20, 30 years or whatever. ⁓ and so it's great. I I love the direction that y'all are going. I've have been while we've talking, I'm kind of looking at the images in the background too, because I'm a photographer. So I'm like, ⁓ those are those are cooler. Maybe I can get an idea from that and that kind of thing. ⁓ well, that's that's awesome. I I think I'm gonna stop with my questions now. ⁓ and just kind of first say thank you for being open and honest about Loa. And I think it's really great the direction that you are going in. I think that a lot of smaller brands and large brands again just learn so much and gleam so much just from hearing other brands speak. And then even like when you were mentioning stuff from other brands, it's always great to hear because I you know you talk to some people at a trade show and they're too scared to give praise to other brands. that are in the same category because they feel like they're like giving sales to that brand. But if you do that, you're just ne you're never gonna grow because you're just gonna ⁓ gatekeep the you're gonna trying to gatekeep the industry and you're not ever gonna really do that. You know, it's like when I see someone post a trail on Instagram, but they don't ever tell you where it is. Yeah. And I'm like, but we all want to enjoy the same trail. You eventually found it some way too. So can we all just share and We all work together and then ⁓ the outdoor space ⁓ I think really gets to grow and shine too. So ⁓ speaker-1: At the end the day, we're we're all we all are motivated by the same things, right? The outdoors had some connection with all of us. And that's what drew us all all to this. ⁓ yeah. You know, we're all part of the same family, one way or another. We I love good, healthy competition, you know, without seeing what others are doing and respecting and appreciating what other others are doing. You know, I d I don't have much credibility myself. Yeah. So ⁓ yeah, I love love love all of ⁓ lot of other brands out there that I love and respect and you know, with without them I don't know what great looks like. speaker-0: Yeah. I do have one. This is just popped up based on like competition seeing what other people are doing. ⁓ I I wanted to ask this earlier, but I totally forgot my question. It just popped in my head now. ⁓ in the especially in the shoe boot space and everything else, w I'm sure you guys have probably tried every material under the sun. Are there some like crazy materials that you guys like the like shoe companies just stay away from? Or you're like, man, I'm gonna make a dynema something or ⁓ you know, just you know, you name it. Has that kind of been something you guys have tried? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, when you'd be amazed if you look at the the level of materials testing ⁓ that goes on, you know, behind the scenes, what both from ⁓ in the lab setting ⁓ to a a field field testing. And, you know, in the lab setting you you you've got all kinds of materials set up and you got, you know, an abrasion machine that's testing how this material holds up against the rougher material because you know, you're gonna be rubbing against you know, e the shoes oftentimes hit each one another on that medial side. You're you know, you're hitting rocks, roots, and and every trail's a little different too. And ⁓ every one kind of breaks down a shoe slightly different. And so the amount of time you spend on materials is is pretty wild. I mean, from prototype A one to two to the PFR production to your SMS production. I mean you have all these different steps and and in each one of those you typically have a different mesh, you know, than the prior one because you're ⁓ you know, you found this one maybe didn't wasn't that the the abrasiveness wasn't good enough on, you know, a certain terrain or didn't didn't pass the the field tests, or maybe in the in the lab tests it didn't pass or whatever. So I mean there there there's no question there, I mean the amount of fabrics and I mean we're we live in an age where there are so many amazing textiles and and it's it's the fusion of and the combination of all those textiles of how it comes together on what you're trying to do that I think is is so impressive. And I think that This is again where I mentioned Hendrik Enders earlier. I mean, this this shoe here in the Pacetera Pro. you know, it I feel like it's such a fusion of all of the great modern materials that are that are out there. ⁓ and it it's fun, it's exciting because you know it's it's it's it promotes change and it promotes innovation. And without innovation, you die. And you know, innovation is the key. ⁓ if you're not bringing something in innovative and original. You're probably not gonna thrive in today's world. There's just too many good brands out there, too many good products. You mentioned earlier you like your products to look good. ⁓ and that's the nate the world we're in. You know, 20 years ago, you you you just bought what you bought because that was what was available and for the practice you needed. Now there's a variety of options in each each of those, ⁓ you know, what you're trying to do, which is great because that that's pushing everybody to drive innovation. ⁓ even even more so. But you're right, it not only is innovation important, but it's gotta look good. Yeah. And there's enough good product out there that you gotta it's gotta work good and it's gotta look good or you're just not gonna take it in today's market. speaker-0: No, that's really good. Well, thank you for that bonus question. And that's probably the section that I'm gonna use on the on my Instagram reel is what you just said right there at the end about innovation and stuff like that. So ⁓ well great. ⁓ Lance, I I learned a a ⁓ crap ton of of information that my brain's gonna explode now. ⁓ but if people are looking for Loa, where's the best place that they can pick up ⁓ some shoes or boots? speaker-1: Yeah, best place to go is ⁓ us.loa.com. ⁓ we've got a lot of we just refreshed our home page. It looks great. ⁓ there's also ⁓ a lot we we definitely want to engage with our retailers ⁓ and that we've got some great space on the site to be able to do that, understand who you know, we work with locally to show where what what ⁓ retailers in your area or ⁓ have inventory in the specific product you're looking at, and that's the area I'd go to to see what's ⁓ what's happening with Loa. speaker-0: Perfect. Awesome. Well, we're going to go in a quick lightning round. It'll take a just a couple of minutes. Just wanted to get to know you a little bit more. I would say I should just move this right to the beginning, but I think at the end it's more fun, keeps people listening and wanting to learn these random questions. So ⁓ first question I'd love to ask is your favorite national park? speaker-1: Ooh, I would say Canyon lines. speaker-0: You just told me that. So that's that's my number one on my list now after everybody's been saying it. ⁓ all right, next is what's your favorite trail snack? speaker-1: So Favorite trail snack? I kinda'm just kinda traditional trail next. speaker-0: Yeah. Okay. And then what's your worst trail snack? speaker-1: ⁓ probably goose. speaker-0: It's funny 'cause the last person I think the last person I had on they said goo they actually love goose now. And most people say no, no to goose just because it kind of burns your throat and stuff like that. Yeah. No, I've I have a race coming up, you know, a few weeks and ⁓ I'm trying some new nutrition stuff and I was like maybe I should just throw some goose in there. And I'm like speaker-1: Yeah, I don't know. I'm all for goo if you're doing a race, it's a little different story. You know, if it depends on what I'm doing out there, right? If I'm if I'm just going to enjoy myself, yeah, I don't I don't love ⁓ I don't I sometimes don't love some of the manufactured stuff. speaker-0: Yeah. I'm just gonna do nerds gummy clusters. That's speaker-1: That's ⁓ kinda my go to snack for any other time. So unfortunately got a bit of a sweet tooth with that. speaker-0: All right, so next question is tent, hammock, or cowboy camping? speaker-1: Mm. I'm gonna say ten. speaker-0: Ten. All right. And then ⁓ alpine, desert or coast. speaker-1: Fine. speaker-0: Alpine, yes. That's my man right there. I I can't do I mean I love the coast and the desert's cool, but man, when you're up in the alpine it's just like another world 'cause I feel like you have to it takes a lot more to get there usually. ⁓ speaker-1: does. I mean for me, I'm fortunate, you know, it's it's 25 minutes from my house. I'm I'm in the mountains. The Eric, not less than that, really. I'm I can be in the mountains in 10 minutes. But to get up in there, I mean it's not that hard for me. And ⁓ it's just such a part of who I am and what I've grown up doing in all all all seasons, you know, whether I'm I'm skiing or snowboarding or or or hiking or biking or trail running. ⁓ it's it's where I want to be. And so it's funny because like when we travel, like I never go ski anywhere outside of Utah. Really? I love skiing because we've got I mean we've got great skiing here. Yeah. And and if I'm if I'm gonna leave and go, it's like then I wanna go to the beach. So we go we we travel to the beach 'cause I do love the beach. I yeah. I'm not gonna lie, I'm I'm definitely a beach guy too. ⁓ but I yeah, I'm definitely mountains mountains first. speaker-0: Yeah. Do you ever have you ever been down to ⁓ 'cause I being in Georgia, we always got a ther go down a thirty A on the Gulf Coast. ⁓ you ever been down there to like the Gulf Coast area? speaker-1: I have spent much time in the Gulf Coast. ⁓ I'm typically going to San Diego, Coronado to play in the waves. Yeah. ⁓ I mean I can bot my wife drives her crazy. I can just sit out there and body surf. I mean, surfing, yes, I'm not a great surfer. I do more lake surfing than than ocean surfing. ⁓ but the I can I can be in the waves all day. It just drives her crazy. ⁓ then but or Hawaii. I mean that's probably our go to vacation. speaker-0: Being less. I think Hawaii's a little bit better than the Gulf Coast, maybe. So I was just in San Diego a week and a half ago. My first time going to San Diego, and I was just like, Man, this is gorgeous. But it was a huge heat wave, so I didn't get to enjoy it because it was ninety six during the day and then crazy humidity. And then at night it never went below eighty six. So it was they kept ⁓ telling me like, I'm so sorry it's so hot here. I was like, You can't do anything about the heat. But ⁓ It's I mean it's gorgeous there. The waves crashing into the cliffs and and and everything and we were using our model with the cliffs and shooting slow-mo of like her standing there and then the s waves splashing. I'm going, Man, I need to move so bad. I feel like I'm throwing so much shade at at ⁓ at Georgia, but I mean I'm I love Georgia so much I'll never leave. But you know, vacation everywhere else. So Yep. Right. speaker-1: Exactly. More questions we can we can go we can go visit anywhere we want in our attacks live in. It's pretty amazing. speaker-0: And it makes it and you if you're near an international airport, it you can get anywhere for like ridiculously cheap nowadays too. So speaker-1: The accessibility is like it's never been before. speaker-0: Yep. All right. Next question is biggest ⁓ splurge you've ever done for your business, maybe for the company and stuff like that or another company you've you've worked for in the past. speaker-1: Biggest splurge, hm, I would probably say this recent decision we've made to move to a three PL warehouse. I mean, that's that's ⁓ you know, that was a big one because it's ⁓ cost is a little higher for sure than running our own warehouse. ⁓ but the you know, the the the output, ⁓ and I mean logistics is such an important part of ⁓ of good business today and you can the expectation continues to grow and grow there thanks to Amazon and others. ⁓ on on that. But we've ⁓ that I would say that's probably the biggest splurge ⁓ and and one of the biggest variances we have in our PNL ⁓ this year, starting to implement that versus versus prior years. speaker-0: That's cool. All right. And last question. This is a new one I'm adding. Is if you had a completely free week tomorrow, where are you going? speaker-1: Free week tomorrow. I'm probably going to the Nepali coast in Hanau Bay in Kauai. What's going on? speaker-0: Making notes. I've got like a huge list of places to visit for the future from everybody on speaker-1: That's if I can get a permit to get on ⁓ on that that trail to go through the through the the polycoast. speaker-0: ⁓ I need a permit. I hate I have a love hate with the permit system. I I usually score real well on the permits usually. I'm always lucking into getting permits, but at the same time you're like, man, I just wanna be able to go and not have to worry about it. speaker-1: Yeah, me and my wife, ⁓ I'm trying to remember the name of the trail. ⁓ I can't I can't recall the name of it. It's you know, I can't remember any Hawaii I can't remember them anyways, any of the Hawaiian words. ⁓ but we we had a funny one ⁓ about a year, a little over a year ago. ⁓ we we booked ⁓ the reservation. ⁓ we had a campsite actually ⁓ that we thought was at the end of this trail. ⁓ and therefore you get that and that gives you access to the trail, then you got your parking whole big thing, right? So we we thought we had what we needed and ⁓ you know I woke up at like three a.m. We were leaving at like five a.m. to go start this this this hike this overnight. You know, just we were just gonna go and do an out and back one night. ⁓ and so I had we we came packed with our backpacks and you know, I've got yeah, my carrying cases with everything already loaded. And ⁓ and at three a.m. I'm I I look at I'm I'm doing a little research and I learned that the the campsite we reserved actually doesn't give us access to the trail and it was actually a boat in. Only and so it was like, ⁓ no, so I our little overnight backpacking trip came to a halt pretty quick. So ⁓ Brutal. Yeah. I think they just started doing that permit system on that trail maybe ten years ago 'cause we've we've we've got we used to be able to go and, you know, do a do some day hikes ⁓ out there all the time and now it's not quite as easy. But speaker-0: ⁓ no. Do they have like with that trail I know s a lot of trails they'll hold like a third of the permits for day of and then the rest of them are like extended at lottery or is it speaker-1: It's hundred percent unfortunately. ⁓ man. We we tried everything. I went I went and tried to, you know, beg and bribe the the you know, the the the the park ranger to let us in. ⁓ you know, told them my sob story. You know, we still gave it a shot, but unfortunately it didn't didn't fly. speaker-0: I know sometimes you can go to like places. I guess that's different because it's you have to take the boat in and stuff, but ⁓ I've tried to beat the ranger by going really early, cause sometimes the ranger gets there at a certain time. So as long as you get for them. And then I'm like, man, somehow I like I'll be hiking and all of a sudden the ranger will be passing me and I'm like, ⁓ crap, I'm never gonna make it now. So forget it, I'm turning around halfway down the trail. So that's wild. Well, awesome. ⁓ Lance, thank you so much for for taking the time. speaker-1: Tried that too. speaker-0: ⁓ to be on the pod, and everybody, thank you so much for listening to be on the trailhead. And ⁓ we look forward to ⁓ next week's episode. Thank you so much for being on, Lance. speaker-1: Appreciate it. Thank you.