Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep 53: How to Achieve a Breakthrough With Todd Duncan

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Ep 53: How to Achieve a Breakthrough With Todd Duncan · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
the real estate agents is essential for success.
0:06
However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
0:11
With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
0:15
can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
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Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
0:25
Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
0:31
And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
0:34
with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
0:39
To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
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of the case study today.
0:47
You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
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in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too.
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Don't miss out.
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Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
1:17
Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this week's episode of mortgage marketing radio.
1:39
You know, whenever I interview a quote successful person, a highly productive person, somebody
1:45
who's making a real difference or an impact in their business or in their community
1:49
or with their families, somebody who just seems to really be, you know, living life at
1:54
that higher level, I always find that there's a mentor sometimes behind the scene, right,
1:59
or a coach or something.
2:00
And today I have the pleasure of bringing to you someone who has been my mentor from a
2:05
distance for quite a number of years since 2002 to be exact.
2:10
That's none other than Todd Duncan.
2:12
Now, many of you listening hopefully are familiar with Todd Duncan and who he is because
2:16
the impact he's had on the mortgage industry has been significant and phenomenal, probably
2:22
ranked at the very top of the list among the most impactful, most influential mentor, coach,
2:30
trainer, teacher for a large majority of the highly productive, successful, well balanced
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mortgage originators in the country over the last 25 plus years.
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And if you haven't heard of Todd, well, this is your introduction to him.
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I think you're going to be extremely pleased.
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You'll find it refreshing.
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And for those of you that know Todd, well, then you know what to expect, all good stuff.
2:54
And in today's conversation, right, we unpack this concept of having a breakthrough.
2:59
And this year, sales mastery celebrates its 25th year.
3:04
And the theme for this year is all about having a breakthrough, right?
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And I love how Todd talks about on this episode about having a breakthrough, having a
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breakdown and what's the psychology that we need to work through that and what does a
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breakthrough look like for you specifically in your business.
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And then we also get into some real tactics, right, about some of the issues that many
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of you I talk to face on a regular basis, which is how do I get better connection with
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real estate agents?
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How do I increase my conversion rate with getting more business from realtors?
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How do I get past the price conversation and have a better conversion with clients?
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How do I build a business that I can manage in a business that doesn't control me?
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We get into all that.
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This is a power packed, you know, 35 minutes or so that I'm just so grateful that Todd took
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time from his busy schedule to share.
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So if you haven't yet registered for sales mastery, go here, go to salesmastoryevent.com
3:56
and register.
3:57
It's October 3rd through the 6th in San Diego.
4:00
And it is a collection, a gathering of the brightest, the greatest, the most authentic
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caring and sharing mortgage professionals that I've ever found, right, with all the events
4:09
that I go to.
4:10
And it is a transformational experience.
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If you're looking to have a breakthrough, if you are looking to close out 2017 strong
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and build significant momentum as you enter 2018 with a plan, a purpose, right, and a passion
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to pursue your business and to achieve your goals, this is the event for you.
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Do not take it lightly.
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Do not pass, go right to salesmastoryevent.com and register for this event.
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I guarantee you it will be transformational for you as it has been for myself and tens
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of thousands of others who've gone through this process with Todd over the years.
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So sit back, listen, take notes, enjoy, most importantly, apply and take action on the lessons
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from this week's episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio with my mentor and friend, Todd
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Duncan.
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Todd Duncan, welcome to the show.
5:02
Jeff, good to be with you.
5:03
What's going on?
5:04
A lot's going on.
5:05
For both you and I, you know, you got a lot coming up, 25th anniversary of salesmastory
5:10
this year.
5:11
We're going to talk about that.
5:12
I was actually watching a video you did with Dave Savage a while back and I think you
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got a new book in the works as well.
5:18
So we'll talk about that.
5:20
But I want to kind of set the stage.
5:22
First of all, it's just a great, you know, you know, thank you and gratitude for you making
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time from this.
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A, knowing how busy you are, but B, you probably don't know the, I mean, you've probably heard
5:31
this a number of times in over 25 years, you know, the level of impact you've had on
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an individual, but you know, you've definitely had that on me.
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I can remember as an originator back in 2003, countrywide home loans, me, me renting, renting
5:46
or taking out the salesmastory CDs from my salesmanager's library and nobody else was
5:52
using those.
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And I'm like, why isn't anybody listening to these CDs, man?
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So I had those in my car and man, that was my roadmap for, you know, because I came out
6:02
of a, a subprime, you know, internet lead broker shop and my story is, I remember reading
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the articles that you had published in like mortgage region or magazine and all these
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like top producers that are doing that 50 million, 100 million in volume, and you know,
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I go to my broker and I'm like, hey, man, there's people doing like 50 million a year, you
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know, and he goes, he goes, well, that's companies.
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That's not individuals.
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Yeah.
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And I'm like, yeah.
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No, man.
6:27
Right.
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So I was like, where can I find the best source of like how to really build a business as
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a mortgage professional, right?
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Not just be a, you know, a phone jockey, right?
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And so that's why that's how I came across your info and really went all in and I really
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just, you know, took the heart, your scripts, your talk tracks, your, your, your partnering
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with, you know, affiliates and, and building that whole kind of trusted conversation into
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my sales process.
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So I just want to take a moment to say, man, high five, thank you for helping me get on
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the right path.
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You know, the, the greatest joy Jeff in, in my life is when something like this just
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takes place, you know, whether it's on the phone or, you know, in person, when somebody
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looks at me and says, you know, you've had an influence in my life, you've changed my
7:09
life, you know, as, as an author and a speaker and a guy that they really wants to speak
7:13
truth at the end of the day, there's no greater joy than having somebody know that, that
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their life has been changed.
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And you know, all the credit goes to the student, all the credit goes to the person who, who
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not only hears the truth, but acts on that truth and trusts that truth.
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And you know, what, what success is, is it's repeated truth, executed all the time.
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And if the, if you stay on the track and you stay on what is truth and what connects
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with people and what works.
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And especially in our industry, you get, and get away from the, the smoking mirrors and
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the, the bait and switch and you get into real deep connected relationship, magic happens.
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And it's just, it's great.
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So, so thanks, thanks for sharing that, because I, I wake up and I told my wife, I told
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my wife yesterday, I said, you know, it's so great, because I got three emails just
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three morning, all from three people who in the previous week just tried something, trusted
8:08
it, used it, and it worked.
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And it's just, I looked at it and I said, you know, my day is complete when somebody says
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you changed my life.
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And I just say, you know what, you changed your life, I just get to be along for the ride.
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So, cool to be with you.
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Awesome.
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Well, cool to have you.
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I'm a little listener here today.
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So before we kind of dive into it here, I always find this is the case and I know a little
8:29
bit about your history as a matter of fact, you used to originate back in Orange County,
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didn't you?
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Yeah, I was, I actually started, started in origination in 1980.
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The economy was in the tank, you know, unemployment was at an all time high, prime was 20 FHA.
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And VA was 16 and a half and five or six points, consumer confidence was in the tank
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and we were in a recession and nobody was doing business and I did my first loan in November
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of 1980.
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And yeah, so I did that for 11 years and halfway through, I started getting asked by my
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company to start training the new LOs because I was the top guy in the company and so I started
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training the new LOs and they started succeeding and then I started training more and more
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the LOs and my company started hiring more and more LOs and pretty soon the Duncan group
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was birthed and, you know, I transitioned my mortgage practice and started this company
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in April of 1992 and here we are.
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You know, it's funny about that.
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So did you work out or did your company have an office in Anaheim like around the stadium?
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We did.
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Yes, we did.
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We have one in Tuston, one in Anaheim.
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And remember being in that office, looking for you.
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You might have already formed the Duncan group by then, but man, I mean, I heard about
9:48
know who you were.
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So I remember being in that office and I'm like, this is where God don't give me his
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man.
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Anyway, that's awesome.
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So here's a question, right?
9:58
Many people, as you know, high achieving people often have a moment or a mentor or something
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you know, a significant event that occurs when they make that pivot or the lights go on
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that kind of epiphany and that shifts the direction in the course of their lives.
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And I'm wondering, you know, if there was a mentor or a moment or a pivot moment for
10:17
you that changed the course of your business or life.
10:20
Yeah.
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So from an original standpoint, this was really fresh Jeff because I just approved a Todd
10:27
Duncan TV episode that is on our YouTube channel and it was called the decision of a
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lifetime.
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And in the video, I was talking about the idea that when I began, I didn't understand
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the power of relationships.
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I didn't understand the reality of trust, even though I had good values.
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I didn't really appreciate this idea, which has come to be birthed of, you can actually
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achieve more by narrowing your focus and going deeper with human beings instead of, you
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know, trying to be everything to everyone.
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And in this 14 minute video, I talk about this decision and the decision I made that
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answers your question is I made a decision very early on probably my, I'm guessing maybe
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two months in the business because of somebody that was in my life that I saw executing the
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marketplace and following his kind of lead, I chose a path of relationships that would
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yield transactions instead of a path of transactions that would yield revenue.
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And I learned from my mentor that that you can make a living doing loans, but you can
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make a fortune building relationships.
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So for me, the turning point very early in my origination career was I'm not going to
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try to be everything to everyone.
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I mean, I had, I had well over 400 agents in the ecosystem that I could call on and, and
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I decided that I was going to build my business model around 20 and within two years it was
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down to seven and in, in, in the remaining 10 years of originating in those seven agents
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and their teams were my bread and butter.
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Wow.
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Seven agents.
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Yeah.
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Those must have been high producing agents.
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Well, so that's the whole more from less philosophy and what people need to understand
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it.
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And this is not just about real estate agents.
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This is about life.
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The idea of superficial relationships lead to shallow results.
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You can get a one-off referral here and you might get a lead there and you might get some
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traction here, but when you are shallow and you are wide, you are nothing to everyone.
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And when you make a decision that you're going to narrow your focus and go deeper to the
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right people, you become everything to that group.
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And the narrower the group, the more of you they get.
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And that's the, that's the thing that most LOs completely miss.
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They, they're transactional and they're doing one-offs here and there and they might be
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doing 20 of them that way every single month, but it's a, it's a chaotic approach.
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It's a, usually a, a low value kind of low price kind of, you're always being compared
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and you're always being shopped and you're hustling better than the next guy.
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And, and all that is well and good.
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But if you want to build a sustainable mortgage practice, you have to have business partners.
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You have to have people that control ecosystems, you know, 100, 200, 300 people, employers,
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CEOs, agents that have two or 300 past clients, you've got to have people that, that have
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influence.
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And, and once you have relationship with the people that have influence, you simply
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build that relationship and the deeper that relationship goes, the more influence you
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will have.
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So I had one agent, for example, and this, this is still relevant today to what 20, 29
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or 30 years later, I had one agent that, that in a period of three and a half years gave
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me almost $70 million in, in business.
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And in my average loan amount back then, I don't think it was $100,000 yet.
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So that shows you the sheer volume of what can happen when, when you deepen your relationship
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to be able to do $20 million in volume with one agent, even today, some substantial number
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unless they're living on the coast and they do one deal, you know.
14:17
Right.
14:18
Okay.
14:19
So a question around that, because in, you know, you've heard, you kind of know where I'm
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going here.
14:22
So yeah, so loan offices are listening to this, they hear that and conceptually the, oh,
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yeah, I get it, man, right?
14:27
But we know then that how does this, how does this shift happen?
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There's two shifts that happen.
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One, I think, is in the mindset, right, on the belief system.
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And then two is the, the, the, the approach in the strategy.
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So for those LOs that are listening, saying, hey, that sounds great, Todd, but I got
14:43
realtors that are, you know, I got my bottom feeders or I have people that do the three
14:46
card thing.
14:47
So when you hear those responses from LOs, which I know you have, what's, what's like
14:51
some, some, you know, direction we can give them?
14:53
Well, I think that it, first of all, gets down to an idea that, um, a most LOs that they
15:00
were looked in the mirror and they were really, really honest with themselves.
15:04
Most of them would agree that they're not following up like they need to with people
15:08
that they desire deeper relationships with.
15:10
They're not adding value like they should with people that they, they, they want deeper
15:15
relationships with.
15:16
And so, you know, if, if I've got, uh, let's just pick a number.
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If I've got 40 people in the last year that are in the agent business and, you know,
15:24
I'm getting some, some pretty good traction with two or three of them.
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And then I got the rest of the people where I'm getting a one off or a two off, you can
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actually decide what you would like to have.
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And so when we do business planning and high-trust coaching, we ask people, don't any answer,
15:38
you know, what's your income goal and what's your average long amount?
15:40
But we want you, you know, what's your average net basis points, you know, that you're
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making on your deals.
15:45
And, you know, what is your conversion rate of, of conversations that lead to applications
15:50
that get triggered to a, a loan app and submitted a processing and, you know, what is that
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final pull through rate?
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Those are metrics we measure.
15:58
But the interesting thing is the other number we measure is this question.
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How many qualified referred buyers do you want per month, per partner, right?
16:09
And if you don't know the number, then you can't make the phone call.
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So if I pick the number eight and right now it's one, I have to begin to look at, of
16:18
the people I'm calling on, who are the ones that I know want to grow their business,
16:21
who are the ones that maybe, you know, Jeff, it's interesting that if a buyer's Asian
16:25
talks to 10 buyers and, and three have a lender and, and three approve somewhere else,
16:30
the loan officer on a lucky day might get four conversations.
16:34
But if I can start to embed my, my value prop and, you know, if I can start to use language
16:40
that, that most loan officers don't use with borrowers.
16:44
And if I can be a person of second opinion to a person that's already pre-approved or
16:48
knows a lender or I can ask a question like, has your lender done a total cost analysis
16:53
on, you know, what this mortgage is going to cost you both in the near and long term?
16:57
And the answers are no, I can start to pull from agents more and more buyers from the
17:03
ecosystem that are already serving.
17:04
So I need to then make the phone call and I can say, I can say to an agent, you know, Joe,
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I've done some evaluation last week and I'm serving way too many agents.
17:13
I want to near my focus and I want to add more value to a few.
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You're one of them.
17:17
In order to do that, I'd love to come by, sit down with you, have a conversation about
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some of the things that you want to do in your business, some of the ways that I think
17:25
I can add value.
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And if at the end of that conversation it sounds good to you, then I'd like to become
17:30
a more permanent part of your lending solution.
17:32
And then it becomes, Jeff, a follow up on a weekly basis in the, in, in, in the Hydro
17:37
Sales Academy.
17:38
We talk about six magical weekly questions that an L.O. can ask an agent that just dominate
17:44
referrals and, and you watch, you just watch the business scale up.
17:48
There's one of our students in, in Oklahoma, Cody, Cody came through this program and Cody's
17:54
at 400 months a year minimum funding right now, four years, five years after coming
18:00
through the Academy because he just decided to go deep with whales and it's not an overnight
18:04
deal.
18:05
It's for you to be something to your clients, you have to connect with those clients more
18:09
regularly and systematically.
18:11
Absolutely.
18:12
Good point.
18:13
And that's a great transition into, you know, from your book, High Trust Selling, I love
18:16
that you've got the laws in there and, to, to talk about one of those for a second,
18:20
I believe it's the law of dress rehearsal, right?
18:23
Yeah.
18:24
That, and so this means to me as, as I heard about it and listen to it and read it is,
18:27
you know, the, the word scripting and, and people have various associations and scripting,
18:31
right?
18:32
But it's funny because when I coach LLs and I'm, you know, I ask them.
18:35
So, so when you meet with agents, you know, what questions do you ask them?
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And by and large, it's like the same old, same old, right?
18:41
Nobody goes deep.
18:43
And I'm wondering, what, it really frustrates me.
18:45
I'm like, why?
18:46
I mean, there's the LLs that don't even ask, like, you know, the standard stuff, how
18:49
many units, transactions, what's important to you.
18:51
That's what I love about you with the law of the dress rehearsal and the, you know, the
18:55
resources you provide is scripting.
18:57
So how can we help people, like, take that on more and get over the beliefs they've got
19:01
about scripting?
19:02
I mean, you hear the law.
19:03
I'm sure too, right?
19:04
Well, I think the interesting thing is that everybody needs to own the fact that you're
19:08
already scripted.
19:09
You're just horrible.
19:10
You're already, you're just horrible of what you're saying, right?
19:13
That's good.
19:14
Like, scripted at.
19:15
Well, we all have autopilot.
19:17
We all are scripted in, in, in so many different ways.
19:20
I would change scripting to being a standalone to, you know, questions and dialogues.
19:27
And, you know, one of the things that we know about a high-trust relationship is there's
19:31
a tremendous amount of interest in the human being that you would like a relationship
19:35
with.
19:36
It's the yellow that takes the spotlight off himself and inputs it squarely on the
19:40
face and the, and the personhood of whomever it is, whether it be a buyer, a builder, a
19:45
developer, a realtor.
19:47
And so, so the interesting thing, though, is in the dialogues, most yellows do not have
19:53
a strategic list of questions that they own that could facilitate then a dialogue.
19:59
I'll give you, I'll give you an example.
20:01
I will never leave a conversation with a real estate agent without asking, what are
20:06
your dreams and goals for the next two to three years?
20:09
Okay.
20:10
I want to know that number and I want to know that number, I want to know that answer
20:14
because if I know the answer, then I can ask you if you have a plan.
20:19
And if I ask you if you have a plan, and then I can ask you how it's working.
20:23
And if you tell me it's a six and a great plan is a 10, then I can come alongside you and
20:28
help with that.
20:29
I can have a leads conversation with you.
20:31
I can never referrals conversation with you.
20:33
I can have a, what is your business plan look like for the next 24 months and they say,
20:37
you know, I'm not really sure.
20:38
Or where would you like your business to be at the end of the year in 2019?
20:43
I'm not really sure.
20:45
Let's just open dialogues about how I can come together and help you organize that.
20:50
You know, what are the great, what's this question?
20:52
What are the greatest pressures you're feeling in business today?
20:56
And how can I help?
20:57
Wow.
20:58
That's a good one.
20:59
You know, those, and all they are, Jeff, they're not, I'm not scripted.
21:02
I'm not, you know, behind the curtain trying to figure out how to manipulate you.
21:06
I truly care.
21:07
It's natural curiosity, true desire, right, which I love what you said.
21:11
You have a natural, you know, you're caring.
21:13
It's actual, it's authentic.
21:15
So I love that you just brought that up.
21:16
Yeah, and watch this.
21:17
Nobody, nobody will ever fault you for being interested in them.
21:23
Most LOs, they'll think that they have to have this kind of secret sauce that they're,
21:28
and there's nothing secret about it.
21:30
Let me take some.
21:31
The best strategic, unique selling proposition on the planet is trust.
21:38
It's, I mean, you know, you got a book on sales and marketing.
21:41
You grew, you grew up, you understand this kind of stuff in, in our industry.
21:45
All the sales and marketing in the world is worthless if you're not connecting.
21:51
If you're not connecting, it's just noise and it's, and it's just, it's non-differentiated.
21:55
It's non-disrupted.
21:56
You want to disrupt the world, show an interest in a human being.
22:00
You want to disrupt your business, ask an agent questions they haven't been asked in
22:04
21 years of being a real estate professional.
22:07
That's how you script.
22:08
That's how you dialogue.
22:10
Huge.
22:11
I love it.
22:12
That's great.
22:13
And that brings, to me, top of mind, the book that I referenced earlier, you're coming
22:17
out with a new book, right?
22:18
I am.
22:19
I'm coming out with a new book, but it's not that title.
22:22
Okay.
22:23
Well, I, by the way, I totally think, though, that what we're talking about, has everything
22:29
to do with being top of mind.
22:31
And in fact, I'll tell you, I've got two guys that I talked to in the last two days that
22:36
they're in our elite coaching group, and these guys are just monsters.
22:41
They are, they are moving volume like you have never believed in your life.
22:45
And one of the things that's exciting is they're doing it by creating this radical trust
22:52
value proposition and, and having borrowers that go through a deep, high trust interview
22:59
with the, the L.O.
23:03
Going back to the real estate agent and saying, this is like the most amazing thing I've
23:08
ever experienced.
23:09
And we're going to unleash that at, at sales mastery.
23:11
My point in bringing that up is that, that because of that, his agents are telling him,
23:17
I'm not only going to refer every buyer to you that doesn't have a lender, I'm going
23:21
to fall on the sword to make sure I refer every buyer to you that does have a lender.
23:26
And by the way, when I perform a buyer interview and presentation in a, in a way that is
23:32
five star, and I tell you, this is the start of a 20 year relationship, you bet, you bet
23:38
you're going to have me at top of mind because I'm going to earn it every single day.
23:41
So our, our book that just came out, and it was called Five Stars, Building High Trust
23:45
and High Ratings in the Digital Age.
23:47
And I'll just say, say to all your listeners that you don't have a choice today.
23:51
If, if you do not architect a five star experience with every bar where you talk with and
23:57
every agent and builder and referral partner that you have, you are losing strategically
24:02
and you are becoming noise in the marketplace today.
24:06
You know, Jeff, I mean, anybody can immediately rate something, right?
24:11
And today, people make decisions on what part of the fifth star is in color, and so top
24:19
of mind is a huge conceptation.
24:22
Your borrowers should never doubt for the rest of their life that you are their mortgage
24:25
partner, you're their home loan advisor, you're their strategic mortgage coach, whatever
24:30
words you want to use and differentiate.
24:32
I love that.
24:33
So let me ask you about that a little bit because I hear this often on, on coaching calls
24:36
that I do.
24:37
So just to give you some color on that.
24:39
So some of the comments would be, well, I think also people maybe don't understand what
24:42
that really means or sounds like.
24:44
And behind that is this external pressure from people like, you know, rocket mortgage etc.
24:48
To kind of take the emotion out, right?
24:52
And what you're saying proposing is, no, do the opposite, am I correct?
24:56
Well, so, so here's the watch us, this is huge.
24:59
If you don't connect, you can't convert, and if you can't convert, you cannot cement
25:05
that relationship.
25:06
So what digital anything does is it removes connection on anything beyond price and what
25:13
we know in high value transactions, which by and by and at home and financing home is
25:17
a high value transaction.
25:19
What we know is that there still is a deep desire in the largest buying populations we have,
25:25
which would be the millennial population and the front half of the baby boom regeneration.
25:31
What we know about those two generations is that they value connection.
25:35
And so even though you've got technology and even though you have digital platforms and
25:39
this and that, a digital platform does not ask or answer the question, what is the most
25:45
important thing to you about this home loan?
25:49
Okay, the digital, the digital app doesn't ask, are you only interested in a 30 year fixed
25:55
rate loan or would you be open to any mortgage strategy that helps you achieve your financial
25:59
goals?
26:00
A digital app doesn't do that, right?
26:02
And so in high trust, you've got to have high trust, you've got to support it with
26:06
high tech and you still have to have high touch, otherwise the thing doesn't work.
26:11
But the difference today is the high trust high tech L.O.
26:16
It's still involved in the process in a deeper way than ever because they're asking the
26:19
questions that digital doesn't ask.
26:22
And this is not new.
26:23
My brother's a top financial planner in Orange County.
26:25
He meets everybody face to face.
26:27
You can go to Scott Trade, you can go to your trade, you can do all your stuff online.
26:31
His clients don't they meet with him.
26:32
And you've got to decide, it's better than that value.
26:36
And so that brings up the question that I'm talking to L.O. is right and they're trying
26:39
to scale their business, they're in this place of so how much are they involved?
26:43
And I've heard the kind of the doctor patient example in the past, right?
26:47
The L.O. is the doctor kind of doing the high end, where's it hurt kind of thing?
26:51
But then they pass them out to their team.
26:52
But could you sketch out like from the mega producers you're seeing that you referred
26:57
to there?
26:58
Maybe what that process looks like that's still high touch and high tech at the same time?
27:02
Are they still actively engaged on the front end?
27:06
Yeah, so in it all varies, you know, our kind of our sweet spot is that there's somewhere
27:11
between a 30 and 45 minute consultation that involves the L.O. and the client.
27:19
And L.O.A.s can sit in that.
27:22
You know, people that are going to help facilitate the transaction can be part of that
27:26
just like in the doctor's office.
27:28
I think a lot of people maybe have over corrected or underestimated the power of what the
27:34
whole delegated five star experience looks like.
27:36
But the guys that I'm coaching right now, I think I can probably say are 30 to 45 minutes.
27:42
And then they have team members that take over, you know, doc aggregation and, and you
27:48
know, using systems like flow via Maxwell and uploading documents.
27:51
I mean, that's that's stuff that the that the L.O.A.s, you know, in the in the world of
27:55
high trust doesn't have to do.
27:58
But I would remind everybody, it's not as important to to answer that question with
28:03
finality as it is to answer the question, you know, whatever time you spend with the
28:07
bar or what are you doing to really, really create a connected relationship?
28:13
And, and then I think is the difference maker.
28:16
And you know, when you look at when you look at the idea that the whatever happens up front
28:21
is by far the most important.
28:23
And that first impression and then that follow up impression.
28:26
And then the sustained impression are the most important things.
28:31
So you've got to have a people on your team.
28:32
You got to have good players on your team that can be an extension of you.
28:37
I had a surgery last year for prostate cancer and, you know, I had a two hour meeting
28:43
with one person on the doctor's team that walked us through everything before and everything
28:47
after the doctor could have done that.
28:50
But it's not his sweet spot financially.
28:52
And so don't overcorrect, don't make it, you know, so pristine that there's no connection.
28:58
And yet, don't overdo it.
29:00
I think far too often if you getting back to your first point, if you don't have a clarity
29:04
around questions and dialogue, we have a whole, we have a whole video system on the
29:09
the high trust bar or presentation.
29:11
You can just model it, just model it, copy it, model it and do it and your conversion rate
29:16
will go sky high, north of 65% to loans that go to processing and north of 95% that's
29:22
settled.
29:23
But if you don't have that, you have a lot of uncertainty during processing.
29:27
Yeah, and that's very relevant to a conversation I had earlier this week with a particular person
29:31
who's, you know, definitely a higher producer, probably, you know, 40, 50 million, right?
29:35
Not a mega, but, you know, definitely respectable, you know, but in certain markets, depending
29:41
on the lender, right, price is more of a sensitive issue.
29:44
And so whenever I hear an LL tell me, you know, I'm losing X amount of deals based on price,
29:48
what I'm hearing is they're not doing the things you and I just talked about creating
29:52
that connection up front.
29:53
And some LLs may respond like that's BS, but that's my belief.
29:57
Well, you know, with the exception of high balance, you know, issues where sometimes you
30:02
just can't compete with some of the big, big box banks, you know, that aren't, you know,
30:06
they're paying 40 basis points and they get a client for three years.
30:09
So they make nine points on the deal by, you know, offering a half a point lower rate.
30:13
You just sometimes you can't compete on that stuff, but here's the deal.
30:15
Anytime you get price resistance, the elixir for it, the solution for it is an injection
30:23
of advice.
30:24
And so your price resistance is a function of people don't see the value and the advice
30:30
that you've offered.
30:32
And so if you hit this at the front end, I'll give you this, this could be worth everything
30:36
to your listeners.
30:38
In our book, Five Stars, we have a chapter called Story Selling.
30:43
The idea is that story selling has a hero to it.
30:49
Every story has a hero.
30:51
Every story has a villain and every story has somebody who wins, right?
30:56
So the buyer has to win the villain.
30:59
If you're the LLLC this, the villain is any other lender and the hero is you helping
31:04
the client win.
31:06
So it sounds like this, unlike most lenders, I approach real estate financing differently.
31:14
Okay.
31:15
Most lenders will, how I am different is, most law officers will, how I am different
31:21
is, most law officers will quote you a rate.
31:24
But very few will help you integrate that rate into your long and short term goals.
31:29
How I am different is I spend 45 minutes with each and every one of my clients.
31:35
I outline your long and short term financial goals.
31:37
I outline what you would like to accomplish with this mortgage and this investment.
31:42
I help you pull all that together in what we call a customized home loan mortgage strategy.
31:48
And at the end of the day, I check in with you every 90 days after we close to make sure
31:52
for the rest of your life where man and junior mortgage instead of you managing it.
31:56
That is Story Selling, right?
31:58
And if you know how to say that and do it, the competition is irrelevant.
32:01
You don't have competition.
32:03
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
32:05
We're moving the conversation away from price to advice.
32:07
Well, and in the worst case scenario, average loan amount in America, it's like we're
32:10
talking about, how do you create enough value to overcome a $20 a month price issue?
32:15
That's what we're talking about.
32:16
That's true, right?
32:17
You break it down for them.
32:18
Which of course is, you know, shout out to our mutual friend Dave Savage at Mortgage
32:22
Coach, part of the reason why we're talking.
32:25
If you don't have Mortgage Coach, you have the software, you need to check it out.
32:28
It creates that incredibly high-value, trusted, modern mortgage experience from the outset.
32:36
Yeah, right on.
32:37
Yeah.
32:38
So, in the last couple of minutes we have, I want to get the sales mastery in a second,
32:42
but I figured, hey, I got Detail Duncan on the phone, so I'll throw a couple of
32:46
often, you know, frequent ones I hear.
32:48
This is one, of course, just from the other day.
32:50
You know, it's the post-realtor meeting.
32:52
All this is awesome because it goes really back to what we talked about that connection.
32:56
But, okay, I met with a realtor, you know, there's great synergy, you're all, you know,
33:00
getting along, you know, but I still don't have any business.
33:03
And I'm calling them every week and they're taking my calls and yada-da-da-da-da, but
33:06
how come I'm not getting any deals?
33:08
What did you say to that?
33:09
Well, Coach, so there's a difference between calling them every week and asking them the
33:13
right questions weekly.
33:14
Okay, so here's, I'll give you two right now.
33:18
Question number one, who have you met in the last seven days that you want to sell real
33:21
estate two or four and you're not sure they're going to use you?
33:24
Last question one, okay.
33:27
Question two, who are you showing property to this week that I have not had a consultation
33:32
with that and so doing would help equip them to optimize their purchase power when you
33:36
show them property?
33:37
Those two questions right there are out of our bag of eight, I think that we have eight
33:43
specific ad renovation.
33:46
We have nine specific questions that you can ask every week.
33:49
Being up is great, except if you don't have a reason why you're following up that benefits
33:56
the client.
33:57
And if I can ask you who you came across this week in your open houses or on social media
34:02
or in your not sure they're going to use you and I can partner with you and reach out
34:06
to them on your behalf and we can kind of tackle them together and I can become an extension
34:11
of your conversion process and I can add value in that regard that's huge.
34:17
And I can talk to buyers who have not looked at property yet but who know another lender
34:23
or approved and I can do something uniquely differently than their lender has done.
34:27
You look like a hero, you win, they win, I mean there's no harm, no fouls.
34:32
So I think to that question is what is the strategy if you don't do a high trust interview
34:37
with a realtor which takes between 45 and 90 minutes and you figure out what are the
34:41
things that we're going to do in the next 90 to 100 days together.
34:45
We don't have an intentional reason to follow up anyway.
34:47
Follow up alone does not convert and yield business.
34:50
Intentional follow up with purposeful questions does.
34:53
Well that's awesome man.
34:54
Thank you, you're right.
34:55
That was an education class right there and one of the things you also say is most sales
35:00
people are asking the wrong questions, right?
35:01
How can they get more sales, make more money?
35:05
The better questions are the ones that go deep and build trust.
35:08
Well the bottom line is you should all go through a radical reframe.
35:13
The highest paid people in the world don't sell they help and you're not a sales person,
35:18
you're a solutionist and your job is to come up with solutions and if your solutions
35:23
are better than your competition then you win and your solutions are worse than your competition
35:29
you lose.
35:31
So most of your competition doesn't think solution.
35:33
They think alone, they think selfishly and they think about income and compensation.
35:38
If you take the onus off of thinking that way and you realize that my income is a direct
35:43
reflection of the value I add to the marketplace and if I want a 10x on my income I got a 10x
35:51
my value and the only way you can 10x value is by asking deeper questions and providing
35:57
more intentional meaningful solutions and if you do that then you get a hockey stick in
36:03
your business unlike anything you've ever seen.
36:04
I got guys and gals right now that are making $100,000 a month that five years ago we're
36:10
making $10,000 a month and they're doing it not by seeing more people they're doing it
36:14
not by selling harder they're doing it not by doing more auto marketing they're doing
36:19
it by having a more connected experience with the client and offering them real solutions
36:24
in a real world that is cladded by digital noise and marketing that just simply doesn't
36:29
exist.
36:30
So that's the answer.
36:31
Stop selling, start helping.
36:32
Yeah, love it, love it.
36:34
Awesome.
36:35
Cool.
36:36
So let's take a past couple of minutes here and talk about sales mastery, 25 years of
36:40
doing sales mastery.
36:41
Man, kudos to you really awesome.
36:44
It's to me it's the premier event in this industry you've had over 50,000 LOs and agents
36:48
go through this and this year the topic is breakthrough.
36:52
So somebody's listening they're they want to break through tell them how why sales mastery
36:58
is the place they're going to get that breakthrough.
37:00
Well, so first of all, it's the it's the best ecosystem in the world for you to learn
37:04
grow and get better.
37:05
And so every year when we develop a theme we develop a theme around what we're seeing
37:09
in the marketplace.
37:10
And so breakthrough was a byproduct of recognizing that in a coaching and mentoring experience
37:17
breakthroughs are happening and everybody needs breakthroughs.
37:19
Some of us more than others, but we need breakthroughs, we need financial breakthroughs,
37:24
we need health breakthroughs, we need business development breakthroughs, we need marketing
37:28
breakthroughs.
37:29
And so the idea is that most people don't experience the breakthrough because they don't
37:36
have strategy around managing the breakdowns.
37:38
And so what we're going to do for four days is we're going to unpack with seven keynote
37:42
speakers, 21 different panelists and 15 committed sponsors.
37:48
We're going to unpack how to produce the breakthroughs in your business and your life that
37:53
you need.
37:54
I'm going to start an opening night, we're going to go hard for four days.
37:57
I think every success, and this is the important thing for everybody here, every success that
38:02
is ever been achieved has required a breakthrough.
38:07
Some small, some big, but there's nothing, nothing that has ever been a great success that
38:13
did not require this attitude towards breaking through the resistance, going beyond where
38:20
everybody else goes beyond, reframing the breakdown that is leading you one step further
38:25
to the breakthrough.
38:26
And so the psychology of the breakthrough, the pragmaticness of breakthroughs, how to
38:30
orchestrate them, how to strategize them, how to release them and unleash them in your
38:38
life and your business, that's the theme.
38:40
So my goal from start to finish is 25 specific breakthroughs that you can take.
38:46
You don't need all 25.
38:47
Most of us need two or three and walk away from that and have your life to be different
38:51
forever.
38:52
That's awesome.
38:53
I love the way you mapped it out because that's an actual plan, it's a road map, right?
38:57
You've got to go through those various steps to get there.
38:59
So sales mastery breakthrough, October 3rd through the 6th, in San Diego, different location
39:05
this time.
39:06
Got to love it.
39:07
We agree, yeah, we agree with the Marriott and it's a new day, 25 years is the celebrating
39:12
the end of two and a half decades of the event and celebrating the future of the event.
39:17
And we're going to make some strategic changes about venue.
39:21
Now one thing that will remain consistent is the stuff you're going to hear, not hype,
39:26
not salesy, it is straight to the truth, straight to the heart, it's the stuff that works
39:31
and that's always been the commitment which is why the brand has lasted longer than any
39:35
other brand in the marketplace.
39:37
Oh, clearly, you're clearly making a difference in having an impact and I always like to
39:41
say, what sales mastery isn't right for everybody.
39:44
It's only right for those people who truly want to go to that next phase, that next level
39:48
of being a trusted advisor or fiduciary relationship of going deep and having a connection.
39:54
If you just want to be, you know, jail phone slap and be transactional, then that's probably
39:59
this event isn't for you, but that's not most of my listeners.
40:02
So we're going to put links in the show notes, it's sales mastery event.com, I'll put links
40:05
to obviously your books and things, other things we talked about in here, but I'm looking
40:09
forward to it, man, because it's also kind of like a rock concert.
40:12
It's a big party as well and we have a lot of fun.
40:15
Wow, we have a lot of fun.
40:16
We connect in real and deep and meaningful ways.
40:18
We celebrate success and we enjoy learning from the best minds in the world.
40:23
So it'll be great to have you guys down there and Jeff, thanks for the chance to be with
40:27
you today and speak truth to your followers and the people that are counting on you for
40:32
advice and great to look up with you.
40:35
It's my pleasure, it's an honor and thank you for being just, you know, true authentic
40:39
person who you are in the industry and raising the standards for everybody.
40:42
So thank you so much.
40:44
Listeners, thank you for tuning in.
40:46
If you like this episode, let us know, leave a comment.
40:48
If you haven't subscribed, please do so.
40:49
And I hope to see you at sales mastery.
40:51
Check the show notes sales mastery event.com, October through six, San Diego.
40:56
Take care, everybody.
40:57
We'll see you on the next one, bye for now.
40:59
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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