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The Strip Club Special - Building a Brilliant Physio Business · No Appointment Necessary

• 0:00
  Michael: Alrighty, welcome to the latest episode of No Appointment Necessary.
• 0:03
  Michael: Today you have a host with Manflu.
• 0:06
  Michael: I am feeling terrible.
• 0:07
  Michael: I've had it for about a week.
• 0:09
  Michael: I'm not gonna moan about how awful I am and how it's basically a bowler and but it's pretty bad.
• 0:15
  Michael: So excuse me if I do cough a little bit through this.
• 0:17
  Michael: But today we've got a bit of a special guest.
• 0:19
  Michael: Um we've got Patrick from Move Physio.
• 0:22
  Michael: Patrick is someone I've known Christ, how long, Patrick?
• 0:24
  Michael: How long have we known each other?
• 0:25
  Michael: Four years now, five years?
• 0:27
  Michael: Pat started off as a client of HMDG and uh he's become a friend but also a business partner.
• 0:34
  Michael: So um uh we'll talk about that in a second.
• 0:37
  Michael: But first of all, do you want to give yourself a quick introduction to who you are?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So to keep it brief, I'm uh physiotherapist by trade.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've also done sports rehab as my first degree, and I uh started off as a one-man band for Mo Physio.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: We've now got uh 18 full-time employees just in one slash maybe two clinics, one just down the road.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, we we do well and we've got a good system in place, and we sort of beat the competitors around us and moved into the area and slightly taken over.
• 1:06
  Michael: So uh the first question I've got is uh talk to me about your strip club.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um was that the second business?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Was it oh yeah.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a I there's a theme running too.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to go into places where there used to be women dressed in not a lot.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I I have taken over a strip bar and made it white and uh medical, and then I've also taken over a coyote club with girls dancing on the bars.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I might have frequented them when there was girls about just to test out, just to test out the premises, you know?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's a bit of a theme which my friends happily uh happily comment on, and lots of people still coming about the strip club, and and wives, wives as well as husbands.
• 1:53
  Michael: It's a great story though.
• 1:54
  Michael: It's a great story, and actually I think probably uh it would put a lot of people off.
• 1:58
  Michael: Like I guess it's uh you know, you you take over a strip club, which is actually a brilliant location, right?
• 2:03
  Michael: It's a great location, brilliant site.
• 2:06
  Michael: But I guess um initially it must have been a little bit of a worry about taking it over and putting a medical establishment in there.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh at least they might notice a difference when uh when I really chat up the outside and make it less CD, and um people will be interested in talking to see what's going on because every every place I have is a high street place, everything is shot front, high street, visible.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's a good conversation starter and a good way to uh maybe stand out um in the crowd.
• 2:32
  Michael: Yeah, it's it's it when I first heard it, I just I had to smile.
• 2:35
  Michael: Um, right, so uh as I mentioned earlier, and I don't want to get into this too much, but we own a little business called MSK Neds.
• 2:42
  Michael: And we put that together because I think initially for me it was really interesting seeing people like yourself running really credible businesses that were just doing so well.
• 2:52
  Michael: And it was people kept asking me questions.
• 2:55
  Michael: They kept saying, Michael, how do you do this within your clinic?
• 2:57
  Michael: And how do you do that?
• 2:58
  Michael: And I I have no bloody idea.
• 2:59
  Michael: I I've never barely set foot in a clinic, but you do.
• 3:03
  Michael: And so what we did was um on my side, I've got commercial and the marketing skills, and on your side, you've got the the the clinical skills and how to actually run the business.
• 3:11
  Michael: And so we set up a little company helping other people, other clinic owners who are at all different stages from you know the the sort of who want to exit for millions of pounds to I'm I'm a relatively small business turning over three, four hundred thousand pounds that I want to grow.
• 3:25
  Michael: Um and it's been really interesting actually over the past year.
• 3:28
  Michael: We don't publicize as much because it's as you can imagine, it's we get very, very busy.
• 3:33
  Michael: But talk to me a little bit about what you found over the past year of working with with different types of businesses.
• 3:38
  Michael: Obviously, don't give anything to uh uh uh yeah, don't give everything away.
• 3:44
  Michael: But give me some sort of a taste of what you found.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I guess uh the reason why we went into this, I was really disappointed with the level of poor quality that was out there from coaches, and and uh there's more complexity to what people put across.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we have different facets that we need to look into.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's really focused on, okay, well, I've got to get more new patients and I've got to pitch myself in the right way.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, there's a whole issue that's missing around well, how do we look after our patients in here, as we might talk about further on, the dreaded retention word, and how we really look after this and maximize that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where we both hit um offer on going, actually, there's a lot more to do, and every business is totally individual, so we can't just take this one plan and input it into every single business because it doesn't work, it works to a degree, and that and don't get me wrong, there'll be nuances, but we have to understand the market, the setup, and also their personality and what sort of what style the clinic to do because there's loads of different styles, and you might just want to stay as in one-man band, but maximise it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You might want to be self-employed only, you might want to have a hybrid, you might want to be totally employed.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there's lots of different variations and things that we have to look at and how we um how we set up a business and make it profitable and allow you to step away a little bit if that's what you want to do.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to.
• 5:11
  Michael: Yeah, that and that's something that pissed me off a lot, actually.
• 5:13
  Michael: Was everyone's got a blueprint, everyone's got the way to to run a clinic and the way to make money.
• 5:19
  Michael: And and and a lot of people are out there selling exactly the same thing to everyone.
• 5:23
  Michael: These are the 10 things you must do.
• 5:26
  Michael: And actually, as we found, every business is different, every owner is different, they have different personalities, different aims.
• 5:30
  Michael: Some want to exit, some will never exit if you offer them 100 pounds.
• 5:34
  Michael: Um and they have different staff and they have different demographics and different services.
• 5:38
  Michael: And I think it's so important when when you're helping people achieve what it is they want to achieve.
• 5:43
  Michael: I think two things.
• 5:44
  Michael: One is understanding that and providing them with something that works exactly for them in their situation.
• 5:50
  Michael: But I think beyond that, it's also making sure that when you are doing and when you're working with someone that you have you have milestones that you as a, and I don't want to call you a coach or me a coach, that we have milestones that we can be measured against, right?
• 6:05
  Michael: Because I think it's very easy when you create a blue blueprint, you say, here's your five steps to world domination, and of course there's always another blueprint that comes up next you have to spend more money on, but there's very little measurement, and if it is, it's all on soft KPIs.
• 6:18
  Michael: Do you feel better now?
• 6:20
  Michael: Um rather than these are the 10 things you wanted to achieve over the next six months.
• 6:25
  Michael: Have we hit those?
• 6:26
  Michael: Have those things happened?
• 6:28
  Michael: And and I think that's another thing, it's much like in marketing where you get agencies who you know they they tell you about how well the marketing's going.
• 6:35
  Michael: Okay, but how much money has that actually made us?
• 6:37
  Michael: And that's something that was always important for HMDG.
• 6:39
  Michael: And I think when we first spoke, you were like, crap, you mean you can measure if I put a thousand pounds in that if it makes me five thousand pounds, you can tell me.
• 6:47
  Michael: Yes, we can.
• 6:48
  Michael: We're like sold.
• 6:50
  Michael: I remember and one of the things that uh impressed me actually when we first met was um we were going through everything, and then you said, Oh, this is going well, let's put in another thousand pounds.
• 6:58
  Michael: And I was like, oh wow, a clinic owner that gets ROI.
• 7:01
  Michael: If I put in more money, it makes more money.
• 7:03
  Michael: So I think that's where it all sort of kicked off.
• 7:05
  Michael: But it's been really interesting um doing this for for the past year, probably longer.
• 7:09
  Michael: Um in a bit.
• 7:11
  Michael: I think it's gonna inform a little bit of what we talk about, but some things that I think are are really interesting, particularly about your clinic.
• 7:18
  Michael: And I I want to sort of touch on the fact that you've built an ecosystem of different services throughout the business.
• 7:28
  Michael: And it's almost like an Apple ecosystem, right?
• 7:31
  Michael: You've got your AirPods and your AirPods and your iPod and your iPhone, and you go you've put that all together and you've kind of created that within the patient journey.
• 7:40
  Michael: And so that dreaded word retention, I don't think you ever even need to think about it because I don't know what your retention rate is, it's 30 or 40 or whatever it is.
• 7:47
  Michael: You don't even think about it.
• 7:48
  Michael: So talk to me about what you've done, what what the ecosystem looks like and how you've done it, and and um, I think it'd be really invaluable for people to sort of understand how you've put everything together.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess it is not going to be too dissimilar on paper to what anyone else might have.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we have we try to get one patient in and sell on lots of different things for the journey they might go on, and you could call it health and wellness or whatever you want to call it.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, to give you an idea, the idea is that they come in at a level of pain, and we're trying to make sure they they would go off to other people to go and do exercise.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: When we've given them as a physio, we'd give them rehab exercise, might go to a PT and they'll stay with a PT for years.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we're better than the PT.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna bring that service in.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing for massage.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: People like massage, and sometimes it's to do something really beneficial, and sometimes it's just to feel nice.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we're the perfect place for that if you trust my brand and my place, and I've got a room.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to bring these different services in the same thing we've done with Pilates and Reformer Pilates, and um, there's all these different adjuncts that we built in, and not because it's a gimmick or so it matches our whole philosophy around we're trying to look after your entire health.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It you don't need to go to a GP unless you do need to go to a GP.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Come to us, you know, and we'll deal with your health and well-being.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and in essence, probably loads of people have got this.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So difference is is how we integrate it and how we talk to them about what they're gonna do and why they're going to do it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And most importantly, the next person in their journey matches what we say.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have individuals working for Move Physio.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: We are all Move Physio, and the greatest compliment a patient has ever delivered us to go, oh, do you know what?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: That person's so moo physio.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I see why you referred me to them.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea is that we keep them moving along in this journey, where they could go off to a gym, they could go to a PT, they could go down the road because we've got loads of Plate's places all down the road, but they want to stay with us because they trust us, they feel like it's the right place to be, because it's an emotion associated with it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel safe here and it's good and they look after you.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and we train them to make sure that they can communicate effectively, not just tell people around about what's going on, but relate it to their goals, be very specific to why they're doing it.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because exercise is good for everyone, you know?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's mostly our other stuff.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exercise is great, yeah, but why is it good for meat?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody, everyone knows they should exercise, but not everyone does it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone knows they should eat well, but not everyone does it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: But how do we engage them to let them know why this is important in their journey of where they've been, where they're going to, and they can take it up or they don't have to, but at least they have a reason to come rather than just going, I just go to do exercise.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even know why I'm doing it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: We need to drill that in them to help them understand that this is where they're going and this is why they want to do it, not us.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're just getting the information and making sure they know that this exercise means that in their journey.
• 11:02
  Michael: So I've got a million questions on that because that's something that's fascinating.
• 11:04
  Michael: Because first of all, you're using the power of the brand.
• 11:07
  Michael: So you're building a really powerful brand which people trust, and then you're using that brand to keep people within that ecosystem again, much like Apple, right?
• 11:15
  Michael: Once you've once you've um drunk the Kool-Aid and you bought your first MacBook, the iPhone, then it's you buy everything Apple.
• 11:21
  Michael: So you're managing to do that.
• 11:23
  Michael: But on average, how many services?
• 11:25
  Michael: Let's say I come in, I'm 48, I'm falling apart.
• 11:28
  Michael: How many services am I kind of going through as an average patient?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So an average patient is gonna touch on some touch on a lot, but I'd say on average, they're touching three services, and that could be for extended periods of time.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in, you know, I've got people who I didn't actually know were still coming to my company because I I was the one man, but you know, I I was doing the physio, the Pilates, I was doing it all.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I met her at the door and I'm like, I still come to your Pilates class.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not me doing it anymore, but it's five and a half years later, she won't miss it, you know.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, so they could be going for an extremely long time.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, retention rate on that is going to be through the roof.
• 12:09
  Michael: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but the touch point is generally around three, and that would be that you're doing physiotypically first, and then you move into Pilates, and you might be doing some massage and things like that, and that could be going on and off for for a long period of time.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or actually, now that our brand's grown so much, now people come in at different levels.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got a scaffolding effect where they used to come in at the bottom and go up the scaffolding and work their way through.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're coming in for PT and for Pilates because they've heard about those services and how good they are, because predominantly with physio, so we're just trying to build those services and make them powerful within the area that people touch, have a touch point with us at that point, and then they'll move down into our physio if they went to need it.
• 12:55
  Michael: Because that's interesting as well, because generally people are always gonna come in at the bottom, I'm in pain, I need some physio.
• 13:01
  Michael: But with you, you've managed to make it so that people are bypassing that and they go struggling to strength conditioning or correct, whatever it is.
• 13:08
  Michael: Well, not in massage, but Pilates or whatever, which is super interesting.
• 13:11
  Michael: One of the things I guess I'm sure actually people are gonna ask is how the fuck do you get your physios to sell so well?
• 13:16
  Michael: Because you used the word sell earlier.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get them?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always an emotion associated with KPIs and things like that that we look at.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: But in essence, you know, we sell ourselves all the time.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's scared of this word.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I sold myself to my girlfriend, who is now my wife.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Am I that same person that I sold to her?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, I wasn't.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was never the same person.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: We meet people for the first time and we're not ourselves totally.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: We are selling ourselves to be friendly and find out a bit about them, and then we might drop our guard a little bit more.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important to not worry about the word sell because somebody's coming in and wants physio.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I need to sell them the diagnosis so they trust me.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I need to believe in that diagnosis, obviously.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I need to sell them what I think is gonna happen.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not because I'm trying to sell them a package of 10.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know exactly what's gonna happen, but I need to sell the fact that I know it's probably gonna take about this amount of time based on research, but I'm also selling on the fact that I'm not 100% certain exactly how long it's gonna take because nobody knows.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I need to be confident in that.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a level of a few things.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the confidence of being non-specific sometimes because we have to be, because otherwise we're lying.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have to be very clear in our communication and concise.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: The more concise we are, the more we can deliver it, the better our retention rate is or a rebooking rate.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we work on that with employees immediately from the get-go, and we watch it and we give them little tips on how they can communicate, and we find out it's because I have an insurance client and their rebooking rate's really high, and it comes to self-paying and its rebooking is really low.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the difference is somebody has to pay for themselves.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: But that person's making a decision on well, why, if they both had lower back pain, why am I allowing this person to come this frequently this many times?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm suggesting or intimating that this person's not allowed to because of my beliefs.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Give them the options, you know, we're not forcing them, but just give them the option on this is why I want them to come in, come back to why, have a meaning.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why do I want to see them this frequently?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to get their pain under control, and we really want to calm things down.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then once things get going, if they feel confident with their exercise, and if I feel confident with them doing their exercises, we can space things out.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're rubbish at doing their exercises and never get them done, I'm not gonna leave them for two, three weeks to crack on with the exercises they're never gonna do.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna hold them accountable because it's my it's my job to look after them, to make sure they deliver, because then they're happy, but also I'm happy because I've done my job.
• 16:00
  Michael: Yeah, the point about selling is really interesting because I sold Hannah a a boy's trip to Mykonos not so long ago.
• 16:07
  Michael: Yeah, you you you are, you're constantly sort of you're selling.
• 16:11
  Michael: But I I think um a lot of the time, particularly in in clinic, it's it's not selling, it's just selling is a natural part of education, right?
• 16:18
  Michael: Educate people.
• 16:19
  Michael: So if you're talking to a patient, you're talking to me, um, Michael, this is what's wrong, this is what it's gonna look like, this is where we're gonna progress, this is what I need you to do, and what I think is the best option and the best route for you.
• 16:30
  Michael: You've just sold me something.
• 16:32
  Michael: I'm just gonna do it.
• 16:33
  Michael: If I trust you, yeah, I trust the brand, I trust you as a clinician.
• 16:37
  Michael: You tell me I need 20 sessions um over the next two days.
• 16:41
  Michael: I'll I mean not that you would ever say that, but you know what I mean?
• 16:43
  Michael: You you would do it.
• 16:45
  Michael: Um of interest.
• 16:46
  Michael: I think all of your staff are are P A Y E, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um pretty much all of them, yeah.
• 16:51
  Michael: And I suppose it just makes me think about the John Lewis analogy where um you go into a John Lewis and you ask about a television.
• 16:59
  Michael: If the person doesn't know about televisions, they'll go and get someone that does, right?
• 17:03
  Michael: Because there's they have this partnership model where everyone benefits by everyone doing well.
• 17:08
  Michael: And I know in in a lot of clinics you get physios or clinicians who are quite selfish where they want to hold on to the patient.
• 17:17
  Michael: Um, they don't want to move that patient on to someone else because that's my patient and I make the money and whatever.
• 17:22
  Michael: How do you combat that?
• 17:23
  Michael: How how do you make sure that all of your clinicians are really like in John Lewis?
• 17:27
  Michael: Look, you are best now with Bob, who's great on the strength condition side.
• 17:31
  Michael: Yeah.
• 17:32
  Michael: Go and see him.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So so there's an element of the word culture of how we want to look after our patients.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is an element of everyone's pay, so they're still gonna get paid, no matter what.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then we look at the way we look at performance and reviewing is we look at several different things and they get reviewed.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when we say review, we have a conversation with them and they reflect on what they've done.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: They have certain things that we want to look at.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it might be so recently somebody's doing fantastically well.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: We have a new starter on board.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, you're doing so well, you're doing really well, your retention rate good, rebooking rate's good.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So now your challenge is to feed our network.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got somebody who needs Pilates, refer them over to this person.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got somebody who needs PTIP, refer them over here because they're they're not a physio.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I look today, they're fully booked, the whole of today.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're two weeks in, you know, they're fully booked for most of this week because my team want to do a good thing because I'm gonna fill them up anyway.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about wanting to do the right things, but you need to get rewarded at the end of the day.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: You need to get paid, and they know they will, because they trust me, because I have reviews and performance in place to go, this is what you need to do to achieve this.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the KPIs are really straightforward and some are harder, and some are about them, some are about other people, like feeding the whole business, because if the business does really well, everyone does really well.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And some of it is about how they help like run, and not necessarily run the business, but make the business look.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're there clearing stuff up in the gym because it's a bit messy, or if they're helping my admin team out and they'll ping me a line and go, FYI, this person has been so good for us.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I reward, because that's how I'll be viewed by my customers who pay us, and that enables us to grow bigger without me having to micromanage every area because everyone's just buying into the idea of this is where I want to be and this is what I want to do, and I want to feel happy about my job, rather than just go screw everyone.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like people, it's me.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it comes back to what I said earlier.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've had people who are whoever name, I say, you're working, you are you working in Moo Physio.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not interested in that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want you as Moo Physio.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone should feel and think in a similar way and want to do the best they can.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're there not doing that, you're a leech on my business and you don't fit the culture and it's best that it's not the right place because I can't have that because you ruin what we're trying to create.
• 20:11
  Michael: Yeah, you you I know you don't have you're not worried about firing people if they're not right for the business.
• 20:16
  Michael: But it's interesting, isn't it?
• 20:17
  Michael: Like for us as HMDG, it's it's actually quite easy to build a culture.
• 20:22
  Michael: It's very easy because as the kind of company we are, we can do all these lovely things with company trips and um uh yeah, as a corporate, you can do all these different sort of things.
• 20:30
  Michael: And and often it's much more difficult within clinics.
• 20:33
  Michael: So the amount of times I've I've said to someone, Oh, did you do get togethers?
• 20:37
  Michael: No, the stuff they they they don't want to do anything because they're not getting paid.
• 20:40
  Michael: Oh, do they change the loo role if there's some missing?
• 20:42
  Michael: Nah, they don't do that.
• 20:44
  Michael: Essentially, yeah, people that are they're always they almost feel like room renters rather than really part of your business.
• 20:52
  Michael: So it's really fascinating how you've um culturally just brought them all in to become a team of people who really do care.
• 21:00
  Michael: And and I remember you were on holiday again, he's always on bloody holiday.
• 21:04
  Michael: You're on holiday, and you said that your practice manager was getting a bit annoyed because you kept calling in asking how things are going, and she was like, You're on for holiday, shut up, leave us alone.
• 21:13
  Michael: It's all going smoothly.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well then I came back another time and I was like, I didn't talk to her.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't talk to her now that I'm on holiday.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: No check-ins, nothing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, ah sound like it went pretty well since I was away.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, no, this went wrong, that went wrong, that went wrong, sort of.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she just sorts it all out.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or my team, you know, her and my team sort it all out.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: They don't bother me.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: But also I put stuff in place to make sure they don't need to bother me so they can run the business.
• 21:39
  Michael: What is the secret to that?
• 21:41
  Michael: Because I think everyone's um even those with with regroe clinics are probably sat there thinking, God, I wish my team were more invested.
• 21:47
  Michael: Like if if there was a not that there were secrets to such, but I mean, I've got it wrong quite a few times, you know.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely I've learned from my mistakes.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy, as we talked about, I'm happy to take it on the chin and go, that's my mistake.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And either I can turn it around, so I train them.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I'm this is why we're doing.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're I can't do that, then I have to hold my hands up and say it's not right, you know.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: But we've been lucky enough in certain ways to find the right people who want to be investor and we give them opportunity, you know, to grow and I train them.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about training.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I do not back off the training.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of training.
• 22:24
  Michael: I I I get the training, but you you can only train the right people.
• 22:27
  Michael: So, my question one question I have then is um, what are the things that you look for in a clinician that are gonna make them right for your business?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that's uh Yeah, so so I mean we are still working on this because again, we're not perfect, we don't get it right.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not mystic, Neg and have this ball that I can see into, but if you're old enough, you might get that part.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: But uh but it is so so we we try to make sure that we look into their personality type a lot.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have a bit not a lot of training, but enough training to try and read the personality type that I'm interested in that my patient's gonna be interested in.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like ability, it's a level of empathy.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: We uh do a speed dating question, which is your three adjectives your friends will use to describe you.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we're quite a relaxed environment, so we try to let them relax and hit them with the question because they might tell you the truth.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And some answers aren't very good, and some are really good because you get an idea, and some you can tell are a bit too well thought out in that moment, and it don't match the person that you're seeing.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we hedge our bets on question marking how we feel they might might uh have maybe put that answer together.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it's about how they come across, how they feel, like it's all these emotions that we're looking at.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, how do I feel about this person?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's from a communication assessment side and personality type.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have the clinical side is all about thinking on your feet.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't care if you get it right or wrong.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna stay there silently.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna ask you enough questions to push you down certain roads and make you change and see if you've got the adaptability.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: See if you can think on your feet.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: If that exercise, I give them an exercise and they make it easier, harder, bit in the middle, show me something else.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Can't change the exercise.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll change and move.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, can't change it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just adapt it, tweak it, change it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Just small variations that show that they're slightly more adaptable because it means they're coachable or trainable, because they're willing to go, oh yeah, okay, actually, I can maybe do this and I can maybe do that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody who works from a textbook, they go, Well, no, I've got to do this exercise, it's got to go to that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing in between because they're not taking a philosophy and utilizing it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: They they're structured, maybe too structured for what the reality of healthcare is.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be adaptable for sure.
• 24:51
  Michael: Yeah.
• 24:51
  Michael: I I I think for me, and I think it's similar across businesses, it doesn't really matter um what kind of business you run.
• 24:57
  Michael: I think for me, people have to be kind.
• 24:59
  Michael: Um I certainly don't want anyone on uh on either side of the political spectrum too strongly.
• 25:06
  Michael: Um you've got to be careful about that.
• 25:08
  Michael: I used to a thing where you take them for a cup of coffee, if they don't say thank you to the person serving them, they are out.
• 25:14
  Michael: Um you've got to be able to treat everyone in a in a nice way.
• 25:18
  Michael: Uh, I like people who will talk back to me.
• 25:20
  Michael: Uh you know, I always say to every person that joins the company, if in the first week you haven't said, Michael, this is stupid, this is shit, we can improve things this way, then we've hired the wrong person.
• 25:30
  Michael: Because I want people to come in and and objectively look at things.
• 25:33
  Michael: Because it's very easy, as you know, in business, it's gonna go, oh, this is all perfect.
• 25:36
  Michael: Yeah.
• 25:37
  Michael: And uh and then continue doing things that aren't perfect.
• 25:40
  Michael: And it's nice to get someone um from the outside go, this is not perfect, what the bloody hell are you doing?
• 25:45
  Michael: So these are some that I kind of look for because I want someone with a strong, strong personality, not so much so that they're gonna piss everybody else off, but yeah, independent thinkers.
• 25:53
  Michael: Like you said, they can think on their feet as well.
• 25:55
  Michael: Yeah, definitely.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, that's why feedback's good.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wait for bad feedback.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love bad feedback in a in a nice way because it helps me grow.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: If everyone's saying it's great, well, maybe it's great to you, but it's not great to me, because I know there's issues to improve.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what they are, and so it's all these things, but I hate getting it, but I sort of love getting it.
• 26:15
  Michael: And there's always got to be a reaction.
• 26:17
  Michael: I think in our onboarding email, uh which I wrote years and years ago, I'm sure it says something like, We get tons of really nice feedback about how wonderful we are.
• 26:25
  Michael: That's somewhat useless to us.
• 26:27
  Michael: I want to hear where we don't do things right.
• 26:30
  Michael: So never be afraid to message me and say, Michael, I don't think this is good or I'm unhappy with that, because I too, as much as I say I welcome it, I it makes ruins my weekend.
• 26:41
  Michael: But the point is it's really important because the only way you grow is by learning.
• 26:44
  Michael: So I totally want that negativity.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we have a really good feedback system that goes out to all clients at certain times.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's after three sessions of physio and other timelines based on the services.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, that it's a it's an NPS scale, but it's a sliding scale, and it has different questions as a result of what they put in to enable the right communication from them.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, if we got one, you know, I have the chance for them to just go straight and say, but tell me we're gonna get a manager, drop your email then, done.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: If there's sort of like eights, for example, or sevens, you know, or or I think it's yeah, it's eight and seven.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, well, these are the reasons why you like, well, I really like you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: So so how can we improve?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: How can we get to ten?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I really like this, but this, you know, somebody put on the room was a bit cold.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're in October.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who hasn't got the heat in on?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm a bit hot.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, doesn't matter about you.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: What else could we do?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and we got heated blankets underneath our things to try and get them warm but keep the therapist cooler.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and you've got to react to it because the easy answer is I go, well, therapist put on the heating because that's what the patient asked for.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're going, well, what about me?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's trying to find that that bit in between where you go, well, let's problem solve this.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: What could we all do to make things better for everyone?
• 28:03
  Michael: How do you so with the with the information that comes back?
• 28:05
  Michael: How do you share that with the team?
• 28:07
  Michael: Do you have a system in place or how's that done?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we it depends on what type of feedback we get.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Every single um 10 or good feedback we get is straight out to the whole team.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone knows kudos from everyone because it's all of us working together.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just the therapist itself, it's bits about the reception team.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy as like checklists, so they don't have to spend time on it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like us, why, and we pick out the things that we're interested in cleanliness, team, therapist, effectiveness, whatever.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then we just ping it out to the team.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that we get that we can improve on, we quickly think about it at a leadership team level and just go, what's the solution?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go in and find one, get it done, deliver it, check it.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just deliver stuff, check it, recheck it, recheck it, add it to your autumn list.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure the heating's on, make sure the blankets are back into all the beds.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Remind everyone.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this whole process around what we do, and then obviously, if it's really bad feedback, then we're going get straight onto them with a plan of how we and it's never a fight, it's uh explanation around well, these things have happened, why, and this is a reason and how we're gonna rectify it.
• 29:17
  Michael: Yeah.
• 29:17
  Michael: Okay, that's nice.
• 29:18
  Michael: Right, I'm going to just hit you with top five.
• 29:23
  Michael: Okay, and just things that I've come up with that I think would be quite interesting for people.
• 29:27
  Michael: So, part of it from uh some of the things we've learned as well over the last year, um, and that I've learned actually speaking to clean games for a long time, but um, let's let's start with the top five problems that you see within businesses that struggle to grow or make profit.
• 29:42
  Michael: Um, what are the the top five problems that you'll you'll see?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think in essence it's how you look after your patients.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest thing I see time and time again, the numbers, their KPIs are not being watched carefully enough about what happens once a patient arrives within the clinic.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: They look at the new patients all the time, they're looking at everything, but they don't truly know what the rebooking rate should be.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: They truly don't understand there's lots of KPIs you can have, but if there's there's clusters that we need to look at constantly to just know that that KPI is truly saying what it's saying.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that helps us build quicker a clinician and helps them stay busier so that all these new patients don't need to be fed into that person, then they can move on to the next person, and that's how we expand and grow.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where people go really wrong.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's uh what my biggest one.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then um what else goes wrong?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got yourself as a person and you do really well.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: One man band.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Scale up.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can't expect the next person to be as good as you.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And generally it's not that they could be an amazing clinician, but it's people-to-people basis.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to connect with them.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about training them to connect with the right person, and you can get lucky and get the right person in.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really making sure they can deliver on that and look after your patients as well as you look after them.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's quite a big one.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in regards to just thinking about what goes wrong, understand your KPIs and what they mean and how they're associated with behaviors.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, get your retention rate up.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not going to.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it important?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you see somebody three times in total for lower back pain when the research, even all the research, sort of talks about timelines of three months plus, uh, all the randomized control studies are looking at exercise effects sort of around six weeks or ten weeks, and seeing them weekly on those bases.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, why are you different?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean related back to the research, related back to how we might want to look after our clients?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so I think that there's a few things that that tends to go wrong in how we communicate that training across.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, problems with not checking and rechecking.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you implement something, you know, things go horribly wrong.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And sadly, I've seen things that are criminally wrong in in some places that they just didn't have the right places and and processes in place to check.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you actually go, Well, where's that money going?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, it's not going into your back pocket.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So where has this disappeared to?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So so there's all these different things that, yeah.
• 32:17
  Michael: So there's there's one that's quite interesting.
• 32:20
  Michael: Um was where and I see this a lot where the a clinic clinic owner says, My clinicians are actually brilliant, and this is the best physio that you could imagine.
• 32:30
  Michael: And I know one situation where um we bought or you brought that person into your clinic, and you were like, Yeah, you're not, you know, you may think this person's brilliant, but it's they're not.
• 32:42
  Michael: And and I think that um lots of times people are too overconfident in their team having that outside objective um kind of view of of how they're really performing.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and the stats never lie, you know, you've got a good rebooking rate and retention rates generally because your patients believe and trust in what you say, like we talked about earlier.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Those are what those stats mean.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it doesn't tell you how good of a clinician you are, they just buy into what you're talking about and they're staying you with the with the task.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the MPS score is going to help give some feedback as whether they're for us initially happy.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they stay with us and move on to our other services.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: That shows that they're really happy with our brand.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's different stages and different things we look at because I don't need an MPS after after they've left us, because generally you've got a good idea on what's already happened after three sessions if something's not happening or I don't trust the person or or I'm not getting a treatment, I'm gonna I'm gonna know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna stay for 10, 20 sessions because it can't get me better.
• 33:44
  Michael: We're we're gonna get on to um top five metrics you think every clinic should measure.
• 33:49
  Michael: Um just a question really on uh it relates to that.
• 33:53
  Michael: Do you ever measure, and I don't know the answer to this, but do you measure the condition or maybe the severity of the condition that someone comes in with, and then pit that against the rebooking rate?
• 34:08
  Michael: So, for example, if you have a very junior physio, let's say, for example, just saw this recently where someone's doing tear pricing, they have you know clinical director, consultant, and then the lowly physio gets people who have absolutely you know nothing wrong with them, um, and they're absolutely fine, and they shouldn't be seen again, but then the complex ones are with the senior people.
• 34:28
  Michael: Do you measure that?
• 34:29
  Michael: Because that would could potentially cause issues.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's we don't, in short, is the answer.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's complex that there's a quite a lot of variables.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, you know, somebody could suggest that, well, pain is all subjective from person to person.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Intrapersonal reliability is good, interpersonal is poor, you know.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we rate what severe is and things like that?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we're the easiest answer for me is going, I haven't got the time to spend on that.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna improve my performance of my team, maybe enough, or increase my revenue enough for me to spend time on it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: So no is the answer.
• 35:07
  Michael: I was talking to someone the other day about this.
• 35:09
  Michael: Um, he knows who he is, he'll be listening to this later.
• 35:11
  Michael: Uh, he's one of those people that's got a bit of a uh tendency to kind of shiny coin, shiny coin.
• 35:17
  Michael: There's always something that he sort of looks at.
• 35:19
  Michael: And one of the points I was making is everything that you do has to move the needle, right?
• 35:24
  Michael: Yeah, you have to look at everything, whether it's a piece of software or whether it's spending time on whatever it might be, if it doesn't have an end goal, if it doesn't help your end goal, then don't do it.
• 35:36
  Michael: And I think that's another one of those problems that I see a lot and you've seen, which is that people they don't have an end goal.
• 35:44
  Michael: They don't say, okay, 18 months I want to be here or I want to be there.
• 35:47
  Michael: And and they they then don't have anything to work towards, if you like.
• 35:52
  Michael: It just becomes a lifestyle, I'll just run it day to day, week to week.
• 35:56
  Michael: They focus far too much on how's today been, and that's when we always get problems with oh my god, we haven't had any bookings today.
• 36:03
  Michael: And I'm like, I don't care how has it been this month?
• 36:05
  Michael: Yeah.
• 36:06
  Michael: Oh, it's been a record month.
• 36:07
  Michael: Well, stop worrying about today.
• 36:08
  Michael: And um, yeah, I think it's really interesting to see that that so few people do have those that long-term vision of this is where I want to be, and this is how I'm gonna get there, and these are the milestones I need to hit to get there.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I think it's important to adapt.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mentioned at the start, I've got two, I've got two businesses.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've got one just down the road, had to rebrand it, call it a different name because you can't have two clinics in three minutes walk, the same name, because everyone's gonna go to the wrong place.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And do you know what?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Moo physio is very clear, everything is totally clear.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know where I'm going, I've always known where I'm going, and it's that trajectory.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: And with this other company, it's quite nice, it's actually different.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I can go in many different directions.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're just trying to test what the market wants.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: You have an idea, go and test it out.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And luckily enough, it sort of worked.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then you pivot a little bit and you just keep on pivoting to work out what it could be because there's lots that the market needs.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just what works well for you at this point in time.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's in five months, it's well, in two months it was profitable, but in five months it's really quite profitable.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not doing the same thing that I thought I was going to do at the start.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's all adapted, uh, and it's quite nice.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And some people need that for their business because they might not have that clear view.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And some people should have that clear view and go, but the most important thing is you've got to look at your bottom line and look at your top line and go, this needs to be profitable as quick as possible, and it needs to feel good and look good.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you're making money, well, that's surely what we're in the name of the game for.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So let's look at metrics.
• 37:39
  Michael: Yeah.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll I'll uh what are the so it's top five metrics?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you think everyone should be measuring?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you what the top one is, because nobody looks at it and is it's nowhere to be seen, but it's the most key metric you could ever look at, and it's average length of duration between appointments.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can have somebody with great ratio of rebooking, great retention rate, but do you know what?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: They will never get busy because they see somebody once every few months or once every few weeks.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we look at.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the problem with retention rate or PVA or CBA, whatever the product calls it, is you have to wait sort of six weeks minimum, but it's probably like 12 weeks to really get a true understanding of what that number is.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you can do it all manually.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look at the ratio of rebooking, so above 80% for uh for a clinician for sure, and then you look at the average length of duration of between appointments being seven days or a bit less, or maybe a little bit over, you know they're gonna see some person for pain once a week for the next amount of time.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you use Chat GPT or something, just put in some numbers of do you know what?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: In their first week they got five new patients.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can work out pretty quickly when they're gonna be fully booked.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Fully booked should never be fully booked.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: 80% saturation is gonna be more than enough because then you won't be able to get new patients in.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of it it's a really easy thing to do.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then look at if their average duration is 40 days.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're taking a hell of a lot more time, like over double.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, because it takes so long for them to do it.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's a really it's the one thing I look at.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't look at retention rate, I just look at these numbers and make sure they're true to the the number of new patients that they might be seeing.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Look, if they're a bit more established and they don't see as many because they're more fully booked, they'll have a lower, the retention rate will naturally be higher because they're getting less new patients in.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then their average duration will push towards 10 to 14 days because they've got a few more people who are working on their exercises, things like that.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that is my key.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's I can't believe anyone looks at I had to make an own formula up and ask data player to put it into their system because they're lovely and they adapt for me.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And And uh it's a most it's the biggest game changer and have conversations about it and we talk to the therapist about it and we teach them about why why we might be doing this and how it can go wrong if you know they space out to two weeks after the first session, but they're not doing the exercise and they're in more pain and you still need to do all this assessment.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how are you gonna get things done in time?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my biggest one.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't listen to the rest and just remember that one, and you're winning, you know?
• 40:29
  Michael: Yeah, I I hear it a lot.
• 40:30
  Michael: You know, my physically is seeing lots of uh lots of patients um in first appointments, but I just can't fill up their lists, they're just not getting busy.
• 40:38
  Michael: And I always ask, what's the amount of time between their appointments?
• 40:41
  Michael: Um, and of course, not one person has ever said, Oh, it's two days, four days.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, so your number one is average time of number one doing that ratio of rebookings, uh the amount of patients that are rebooked to the attrition rate of it, and you can do that in discharging and things like that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: It should be a minimum of 80%.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on, you just rabbited that off.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, so for example, so we're looking at 80% rebooking rates.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you see, I'm just gonna make my life easy.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you see 20 people a week on average.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: That means that you're going to lose four patients every single week due to discharging.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that's even a little bit too much when we look at maybe how many new patients have come in at one time and depending on all those stats.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's reasonable to say that you're going to lose that many patients.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: So 80% is a minimum.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then really, if you're good, you'll be around 85 to 90 uh because you won't need to see so many new patients.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not actually losing those patients because if you look at your referrals and stuff like that, they're probably moving on to some other services within your clinic because you're going to pay for one person through HMDG to get that one person on your Google ads, and then you're going to make sure they stay with you because you've got an amazing brand and products that are much better than anyone else out there, and your lifetime value of that customer improves significantly.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Next metric.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the next metrics that you are, you do have to look at your C VA, PVA retention rate.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is important.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I would always look at that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll add on the next bit is your new patients.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have an eye on your new patients and know that you're, if you want to expand and grow, you need to see those new patient numbers going up.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: The next one is you need to have your saturation right of your clinic as well as your individuals because they should not be busy fully booked.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you're turning people away.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't know it because you're like, well, the new patients aren't coming in.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just try it out.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just try getting a new person in and working the theory.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that earlier this year and went to the most number of people we've ever had.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I did it by adding three more people in because I was growing another site just down the road, so it's the same pool of people, and we jumped.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if I didn't, but but I was looking and they they were less busy than so the saturation rate was lower for each individual, but my overall new patient revenue, everything's gone up, and the potential for scope is then to drive into that because I've got space, and if we have a good ratio of rebooking and things like that, I know my number of new patients driving in will easily help me pick up that over the attrition rate.
• 43:27
  Michael: Yeah, I and I think that's a really important one.
• 43:28
  Michael: It's something we always say to people is once you get to 75%, you say 80, 75 to 80%, you start running into problems.
• 43:36
  Michael: The the best analogy I always give is let's say you uh something breaks, your radiator or your boiler, and you're looking for a plumber and you go online and you want to book an appointment.
• 43:45
  Michael: If 80% of the appointments are gone and you've only got 20%, they're going to be on days that you don't want.
• 43:51
  Michael: They're going to be at times that you don't want.
• 43:53
  Michael: And if you don't have that availability, although you don't think it's happening, it's absolutely happening where people are just bouncing and going somewhere else because they want the appointment on Wednesday at 9 a.m.
• 44:03
  Michael: They want the appointment on Friday at 4 p.m., whatever the case may.
• 44:06
  Michael: And I think it's something that people always overlook.
• 44:08
  Michael: They say, Well, I've still got 30 appointments free this week.
• 44:12
  Michael: So what?
• 44:13
  Michael: You know, make it 60 because you will your revenue will go up.
• 44:18
  Michael: Um, it's a really interesting one.
• 44:20
  Michael: So another metric, there's one we always we've talked about before, which is revenue per hour.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so uh revenue per hour, yeah, rather than by appointment.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're interested in how much they make per hour because that's essentially how we're going to look at them.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if you've got multi-services that run at different rates, you need to be aware of that.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I've always talked about multi-therapists in my job.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: So at a scale up, I need them to be multi-therapists, and as we've got bigger, then I can have specific therapists only focused on those levels, depending on their revenue per hour and also their market value on what's out there, so I can price people correctly.
• 44:57
  Michael: Yeah, okay.
• 44:58
  Michael: Yeah, let's move from metrics.
• 45:00
  Michael: We are running short on time, and I'm I'm gonna ask quickly top five bits of tech, and I mean business tech within the the clinic.
• 45:09
  Michael: Eufi is obviously number one.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love that thing.
• 45:12
  Michael: If anyone doesn't know you, we it's a it's an Omni S1 Pro automatic vacuum cleaner, which is just it saves hours of your week and your month.
• 45:21
  Michael: It's the best thing I've ever bought.
• 45:22
  Michael: And I told Patrick to buy one when he did.
• 45:24
  Michael: Uh it changes your life.
• 45:26
  Michael: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 45:28
  Michael: Like a robot that just your house.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just watch it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, yeah, well, what I think your CRM CRM system has to be good.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so for me, I use Clinico, it's really friendly, it's nice and easy, it integrates really well.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important to get your stats because your stats drive your business.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's really you have to know them.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have to make sure your CRRM system can give that to you.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's quite a big, big part of it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do something that I don't have, but I know it's out there and it's important, and it depends on your level.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I will say I think the AI receptionists are coming quite into play here.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how good or bad they are because I don't utilize them.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have my reception team because they do more than just that.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's becoming a big player for um individuals who are getting busier just so somebody answers the phone, gets them booked in.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: You need those, you don't want to be turning away those features.
• 46:21
  Michael: It's really important for out of hours.
• 46:23
  Michael: So if you're closed on a Saturday or a Sunday or after 6 p.m., it's really great to have a system that can answer the phone and book people in and do all of that stuff because otherwise you are dropping people off.
• 46:35
  Michael: So you should definitely go on.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, uh, because it gives me all my stats, data player.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: So data player for me or any other systems that that give it to you, but what I like about data player is I they've allowed me to adapt things.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I give them formulas that I want them to look at and try to deliver the like the average hours between appointments.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no uh else has that.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I do it?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do it manually.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been really quite helpful.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: For us, some form of I mean, these are the basics, isn't it?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some form of thing like MailChip or something like that, you should be accessing your clients.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to drill them all the time.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: But when we've got something going on, and when we've got a new startup, which we had recently, she is two weeks in and she's near enough fully booked.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she's fully booked with a little bit of a PT offer or something like that to get her in front of people and they find out how amazing she is, and they might say, Oh, she's so new physio, and they're booking, you know?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and that's what happens.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she wasn't very good on the ratio of rebooking, had a conversation with her, did some training with her, took about two hours, split over time, and the ratio of rebooking has gone from 25% all the way up to 80% and above.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little bit of training.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, and then so some form of projects board, like we use Trello or something to try and keep you on track on in the madness of it all.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what are we doing to push the dial?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: What where are we going?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's going to happen this year?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Projects, who's doing them, who's ticking them off, who's adding information to them.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: One place, not an email thread that I've lost track of.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where they are.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody started a new one just as a side note.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just want one place, all the information ticking off the list, then setting up.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, what have I, what have I done?
• 48:21
  Michael: Ticking it off, what do I need to do?
• 48:23
  Michael: Yeah, it's an important one that most people miss.
• 48:25
  Michael: But even if you're using Superlist or Notion or Trello is is is kind of universal and and really simple.
• 48:32
  Michael: But I think, yeah, having all of those things in a project is really important.
• 48:35
  Michael: What about um internal commons software?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh so for us, we don't we did trial out some Slack and things like that.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh um, so it didn't suit us for what we were doing because uh we have a WhatsApp group with our leadership team as a community, and we put stuff that's important in there, and we have a standard WhatsApp group for that.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: The admin team have their own WhatsApp group so we can communicate different elements that are important to people, put our staff parties on there, stuff like that.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: But but really what's been great for me is AI notes.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've really enjoyed that.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's tough work, you have to teach it, you have to maybe adapt a little bit to the way it wants things, but uh it has been very useful for somebody who you know sees patient after patient after patient and um then ask off and do all this business stuff and do this and do that and do the other.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to know that they're all done and uh it's really quite useful.
• 49:28
  Michael: Yeah.
• 49:28
  Michael: Okay.
• 49:29
  Michael: Um let's leave it there because uh yeah, we've gone over time a little bit.
• 49:33
  Michael: Thank you very much.
• 49:34
  Michael: We may do another I mean, we may do another one because I think there's a lot of stuff we can still talk about that people will find super, super interesting.
• 49:41
  Michael: If anyone is interested in in working with Patrick, then copy you an email, I suppose, Patrick at move physio.co.uk.
• 49:48
  Michael: I will warn you you will go on a waiting list.
• 49:51
  Michael: Uh it is too.
• 49:54
  Michael: Um but thank you very much, Patrick.
• 49:57
  Michael: Um get well soon.
• 49:59
  Michael: Yeah, thank you.
• 50:00
  Michael: You manned up.
• 50:01
  Michael: Well done.
• 50:01
  Michael: I've I've got a newsletter to write today as well.
• 50:04
  Michael: It's already there.
• 50:04
  Michael: Oh, so it's yours.
• 50:05
  Michael: All right, cheers, Patrick.
• 50:07
  Michael: Take care.
• 50:08
  Michael: Cheers.