Latest / Revenue Problem Solvers / Fixing Revenue Leaks Through Leadership and Operations with Kyle McDowell

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Fixing Revenue Leaks Through Leadership and Operations with Kyle McDowell · Revenue Problem Solvers

0:00
Somebody's going to challenge you and you're going to lean
0:01
into your business card and say, because I said so.
0:03
Maybe not in so many words, but your your response will have
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that kind of flavor to it. Dead on arrival, right?
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Then you're dead on arrival because you're being a
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hypocrite. You've expected them to behave a
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certain way, and you're not doing it.
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Welcome back everybody to the Revenue Problem Solvers podcast.
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We try to crack the code and growing your business by
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tackling the challenges to keep revenue leaders up at night.
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I'm Karl Ormans and on today's episode we're going to dive into
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a topic we actually haven't talked about yet, and that's the
0:29
topic of operations and revenue. Now today's podcast is sponsored
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by the great team at Virtual Causeway.
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Instead of chasing form fills, they engineer where and how your
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Check them out at virtualcauseway.com and don't
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1:07
Now. My guest today is a leadership
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author, a former Fortune 10 executive, and a keynote speaker
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best known for creating the 10 Wheeze Leadership Framework,
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Kyle McDowell. Kyle spent nearly 3 decades
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inside large organizations, leading teams and running
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complex operations. And during that time, he noticed
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something that most leaders quietly experience but rarely
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talk about. Almost every company says
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culture matters. They put their values on the
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wall. Integrity, teamwork, excellence.
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But when the pressure hits, when deadlines pile up and when
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performance is on the line, those values often disappear.
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And Kyle saw that pattern over over and over during his year,
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during his more than 20 years at United Health Group, one of the
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largest companies in the world, where he he led large teams and
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saw first hand how culture either shows up in behavior or
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it doesn't exist at all. So he started experimenting with
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something different. Instead of vague corporate
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values, he created a set of very clear behavioral commitments for
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his teams, simple standards of how people would operate and how
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they would hold each other accountable.
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He called them the 10 Weeds. That principle, that framework,
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eventually became the foundation for his book Begin With We 10
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Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of
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Excellence. And today, Kyle works with
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leaders around the world, helping them build cultures that
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actually shape how teams perform.
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Kyle, welcome to podcast, Sir. Thank you.
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For Hey, Carl, man, it's great to be here.
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Thank you for such a wonderful introduction too.
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Thank, thank you for having me. Oh, it's been a pleasure.
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Well, it's been a pleasure to get to know you so far, and I'm
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pumped for today. So as we get kicked off, could
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you give us a little bit, give us all a little bit of context
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about your world? What industries or verticals do
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you work with? What are your selling motions?
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What size companies do you work with?
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So I, I grew up in the corporate space and you mentioned a couple
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of stops, but I've, I spent the bulk of my career in healthcare,
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all of my career in operations. So for example, in my last role
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before leaving the corporate world, I led the back office
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operations for about 15,000 employees at a massive
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pharmaceut like top, probably, I think probably Fortune 10 firm,
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50 plus billion dollar PNL. Prior to that, I I ran
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operations for the Affordable Care Act and 1800 Medicare, two
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of the the largest entitlement programs in the states, had
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about 14,000 employees there. But today I work with
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organizations of all size of all industries.
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It's pretty agnostic. And I think that's probably a
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commentary to the work that I do is I don't care if it's
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healthcare, if it's financial services, automotive, you pick
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the industry. At the end of the day, we're
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talking about people and we're talking about leading people.
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So while I, I spent most of my career and kind of mostly that,
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that the healthcare space it, whether it was healthcare or any
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other field you can imagine that I don't think it matters because
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we're, we're just talking about people at the end of the day.
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So I don't rule out any type of engagement or operation or
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working with somebody just because of it's an industry
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different than than where I grew up, but because I found the
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challenges to be the same. Sure, there are nuances and
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there isms that are, you know, kind of requisite for each
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industry or every different industry.
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But you know, as I said, at the end of the day, we're just
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talking about leading people. I like how you said that you
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lead people, you manage metrics, you lead people, you don't
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manage people. So I like that how we got to
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today's topic is very similar to the same question.
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It is the same question I ask everybody.
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What's a successful revenue initiative you've ever LED or an
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existing challenge that you're either solving or have solved?
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And Kyle and I had a really good back and forth and it became
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clear that it was improving operations to increase revenue.
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So if we can maybe just jump off here, Kyle, a lot of leaders
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think revenue problems are actually sales problems.
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But in your experience, how often are revenue problems
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actually operational problems inside the organization?
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Man, I'm, I'm having flashbacks. I I remember, I remember so
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vividly. So I'll give you some inside
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baseball in in the health plan space.
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So every year the sales team would would go out to different
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markets and they try to sign up big employers, right.
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So they try to sign up the companies that will use us for
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their insurance for their employee employee employer
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insurance deals. And invariably it, it seemed
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anyway, as from the, from the OPS perspective, every deal was
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sold as a bespoke arrangement or agreement that one size fit one.
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From an operations perspective, that's like that's, that's,
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that's bad, right? We want repeatable standardized
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processes that we can drop in any geography with any set of
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circumstances and they're going to work.
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You know, it's like the McDonald's thing, regardless of
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what city you're in, theoretically your McDonald's
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experience should be exactly the same.
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And that's how operators roll. We want consistency,
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predictability. We want to be able to track
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things at the very minute level, at a very minute level.
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But invariably what would happen every single year is our sales
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team would go out and they would sell a deal that we would have
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to modify some operation or some step behind the scenes.
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So what happens is you have a sales environment or sales org
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rather that goes to sell a deal. That's not standard.
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That requires changes to be made inside the operations behind the
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curtain. And if you do it well, it's kind
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of like when you come home when your power, your, your, your,
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your lights are on, right? You don't call the power company
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to say thank you, you, you just expect it to work.
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However, when it doesn't go well, you're picking up the
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phone. And in this environment, that's
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what tended to happen every single year we'd sell a deal
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gets handed over the operations guys for execution.
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Either some requirement requirements were not
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appropriately or accurately captured or you know, whatever
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the scenario is, but invariably there would be some kind of
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disconnect. We would deploy something or
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kick off this operations for this new client or the revised
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expectations for this client and it wouldn't always go well.
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Where I'm going with all this though is the operations are the
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execution of what we've already sold and we could sell
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everything we could. We could have the sexiest
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PowerPoints and sales slicks and marketing docs that you've ever
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seen. But if we can't execute behind
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the scenes, there is no revenue. And it's, and this is where
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especially in larger organizations, we get this kind
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of finger pointing back and forth.
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Well, I sold this where you you executed this or you implemented
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this and I said this, but you implemented that, which I think
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puts an absolute emphasis on this need for clear standards,
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not just for behavior like you talked about, which is
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incredibly important, but for how we do what we do,
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establishing very clear expectations.
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Hopefully they're observable, they can be reported against and
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we can establish A baseline for always, you know, trying to
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improve. But here, but here's, here's
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here's where I think operations nerds like me have an
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opportunity to increase revenue rather than just deliver on what
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was sold. And it boils down to this.
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I, I just, I couldn't be more adamant that if we're high
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functioning behind the scenes, take care of each other, we look
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out for each other, we hold each other accountable.
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A lot of the things that you said during the introduction,
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our customers feel that, they feel it and in most cases it
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keeps them satisfied with where we are in terms of our business
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relationship. But often it results in an
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increase in revenue and opportunity.
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The opposite is also true, man. When we're dysfunctional behind
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the scenes, when our handoffs are broken, we don't have
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clearly established SL as behind the scenes and we're
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dysfunctional or even toxic behind the scenes.
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Our customers feel that as well. We've all experienced that as a
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consumer. We try to call a company that
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something's gone off the rails and you know, it has to get sent
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to another department. But I'll circle back and
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invariably the call never comes. You don't ever get that fault
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that that follow up as promised. And that sign of dysfunction is
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almost always felt by the end user, the consumer.
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So, you know, being a behind the scenes operations guy leading
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big organizations, I always tried to lean really hard into
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how high functioning are we behind the scenes?
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Are we A-Team or are we a bunch of people with the same badge?
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Because if we're just a bunch of people the same badge, there's
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no team and there's there's, it's likely that we're not
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performing as optimally or as high functioning as we could or
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should. So it's our responsibility on
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the operation side to deliver, to deliver an experience that is
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that is consistent with what's been sold.
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And when we do that, we're already a leg up versus our
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competition because we've made good on a commitment.
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And that is, you know, that's critical.
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We always judge those that we buy a product or service from on
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their ability to deliver. So there's, there's historically
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a lot of organizations been this kind of like church and state.
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We've got the sales team or you know, maybe a separate marketing
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team or maybe they're combined and they've got the guys and
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gals that actually do the work on the operation side.
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And if they're not connected, we're off to a bad start.
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But when they are connected and if communication is is solid and
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explicit and who knows and everybody knows the task, the
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mission, what we're trying to accomplish and deliver for this
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this client, we're more likely to perform in a way that
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delivers to their expectations. So I just, I don't like
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separating sales from operations.
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I know it's natural in a lot of environments, but one cannot
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exist without the other. There's a, there's a question in
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here and I'm glad you called it out because I and hopefully we
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can take this path. There is an expectation for
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businesses that you have to go and build new business, right?
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Like your lifeblood is majority of the time is on finding new
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verticals, finding new business, finding new ways.
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So there's, so there is that exploration phase and but then
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there's also the repeatability like you talked about that
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operation over here that we're going to do what we said we're
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going to do, right, because that ultimately when you sell that
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opportunity, now it's up to the operations team to deliver and
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you can pick the vertical, whichever you want to be.
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And I, I immediately think of manufacturing in this example,
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right. And I know it's not it's not
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healthcare, but hopefully you kind of follow me on we're going
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to sell a thing that's going to do an output great operations
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make it so right. And there's there's a.
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Number of those too. Yeah.
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Like there's a bunch of standard operating procedures and
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everything that goes through it, but there's there's a push pull
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because there's a push of like I got to go find some new
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business. But then the pull is going to
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be, well, that's not exactly how we want to do this.
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And so there's a couple of questions I think rooted under
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this topic and hopefully, hopefully you can stay with me
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while we're going. So the question, the first
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question is, is it, is it the first thing you should be
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thinking about from the when you go to do something new?
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So let's say something new as it could because you talked about
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like, you know, hey, we went and we sold the thing.
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Now we got to deliver the thing in a large company.
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When you have that sale and you're now going on
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repeatability when something breaks that is outside the mold
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of what you've done, how do you go to the sales team and say,
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you know what? This is how this is supposed to
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go. But hey, just so you know, you
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did it like this. That means this is the chain of
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command that happens and this is the impact to the sales team.
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How does that conversation happen?
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Well, that as odd as it sounds, that conversation has to happen
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before that issue has surfaced. And this is where I go back to
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the value of, of being explicit around expectations.
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So in most environments, we'll have like an intake forms and it
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checks all the boxes that says, you know, here are the here are
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the steps or the things that we're going to execute on behalf
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of the organization, the things that was just sold.
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And, you know, it's not, it's not uncommon for something to
12:53
fall outside or not even be in scope of, of what we have
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identified as those key things that go into this intake form.
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So where I'm going here, though, is if we wait until something is
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off the rails to, to, to drive improvement, we're, we're
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already behind the 8 ball. So we have to establish the
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expectations, including like walking through what if
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scenarios, you know, if this happens, what do we do?
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What if, how do we respond? Those types of things.
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It places an overt emphasis on the need for connectivity of
13:27
leaders across functional areas. And that's where, you know, I, I
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spent a lot of time talking about shared standards, shared
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observable behavioral standards. They can't just be for one
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function. They can't just be for the
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operations guys and gals. It has to be for every
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functional area of the company. So for example, we own our
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mistakes is, is we number six of the 10 weeks.
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Sorry, we, we #5 we own our mistakes.
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It, which is a beautiful thing, right?
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When someone says we blew it, we have an opportunity better, you
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know, let's fix this problem. Instead of just hiding shit,
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which happens too often, we now know what needs to be addressed.
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And this is a, this is something we want to, we want to aim to
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improve. But if we're the only ones
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living with that paradigm and I approach the, the sales leader,
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someone in the sales team to say, listen, man, we have a
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repeatable process over here. You sold something that's
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outside of that, outside of that scope, and it's causing this
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downstream series of impacts. You know, I'd like to approach
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that with the understanding that the person on the other end of
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the line or across the table from me is, is subscribed to the
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same series of those behaviors. And that's we own our mistakes.
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So they'll say, ah, man, Kyle. Yeah, you're right.
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Yeah, we blew that. Or if they're not quite ready to
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kind of get to that conclusion, there's another principle that's
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we we challenge each other. So let's pretend for the for
14:48
this moment, for this scenario that that salesperson disagrees.
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They they think they've handed over everything needed for us to
14:54
execute Florida State. Well, at that point, it's my
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time to kind of shift the conversation.
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It's like, it's like, hey, Carl, well, we challenge each other,
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right? And if you subscribe to these
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principles and they're in in part of the overall
15:07
organization, as part of the overall organization, everybody
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subscribed to them, We're now speaking from the same
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vernacular this we have the same expectations to one another by
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the way we challenge each other as followed by we embrace
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challenge. So there's an obligation of the
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on the receiving part for the receiving party to acknowledge
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that this is a challenge that's coming my way.
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I need to embrace that. That's how we, that's how we
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operate here. So the, the point of this, of,
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of my response is this, Carl, it's like if we wait till
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something's not going well, there's going to be
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defensiveness, there's going to be territorialness, there's
15:36
going to be the sandbox. You feel like you're intruding
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on someone else's territory. On the flip side, if we go back
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early, early, early, and it's like the day that that person
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joined the company or the day that I joined the company or the
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day that we kicked off this initiative, we level set on
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those same observable behaviors that those are the our true
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north for lack of a better cliche.
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It makes having those difficult sideways conversations a little
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bit easier because I'm not coming at you with my opinion.
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I'm not being difficult with you for the sake of being difficult.
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I'm going to challenge you because that's who we are.
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That's what we all have subscribed to.
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And it's my opinion at this point that what you've handed
16:13
us, and kind of like the bill of sale, if you will, for us to
16:16
execute on the operation side was missing something or
16:19
incomplete, not exactly what we needed.
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I need you to embrace that challenge.
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And oh, by the way, we pick each other up.
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So regardless of how this mistake was made or how we got
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to where we are, this downstream impact that we're feeling, just
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know that I'm in this with you. Not, not, not aside from you not
16:33
coming at you. And we'll pick each other up.
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We're going to pick each other up.
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And that's how we're going to get out of this.
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The, the, the, the long winded or less long winded way of
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answering this is we've got to align on expectations for every
16:44
functional area, regardless of your role, your seniority, your
16:48
tenure, how important you might think you are.
16:50
Because when we're aligned on what the expectations for how we
16:53
behave when things are bad, we know what we know where to go,
16:57
we know what to lean into. We know what principles we have.
16:59
We know what drives us. Which, by the way, makes when
17:02
things are going well, that much more fun.
17:05
Oh, yeah, yeah. Winning solves all.
17:07
And there's a one of the things that I heard that I'm going
17:10
through my mind is you talking about this is like a cult
17:13
chasing shiny things. Well, we did a thing and I've,
17:16
I've worked with a group where it was like, hey, I see a great
17:20
opportunity over there. There's a great account.
17:22
What? What are they doing to use our
17:24
stuff? We'll never do that again.
17:27
Wait, what do you mean? Oh, that's hard coded.
17:30
It's this, it's that we'll never do that project again.
17:32
Oh, how come we got that? Well, it was for this specific
17:36
project and it was this specific thing.
17:37
We have a specific team related to that.
17:40
OK, so repeatability 0. Got it.
17:43
What about this one over here? We're never doing that thing
17:45
again. Don't ever ask about it.
17:47
Well, how come? Well, it's for this project and
17:50
it's specific. And so you go, OK, there are
17:52
more exceptions to the rules than there are rules.
17:56
So how do you make sure that you stay on top of it?
17:58
And that's, that was one of the things like, well, how do you,
18:00
how do you look at that? Because from a go to market
18:02
perspective, if you're always doing different things, but
18:05
they're never repeatable, well then who's your target market
18:08
and how do you address it? But the flip side of it is if
18:10
you start to look at it and go, you know what, we're not just
18:13
chasing Johnny things. We actually ventured into a new
18:15
vertical that we never expected to.
18:18
We followed our standard operating procedures, but we
18:21
have to tweak it because it's, it's, you know, medical devices
18:26
as an example and it needs to have and it needs to have very
18:29
specific cleanliness and it's got to follow some HIPPA rule,
18:32
blah, blah, blah. OK, we can adapt our standard
18:35
operating procedures to, to go into a new vertical.
18:39
And so it comes. I think there's a question
18:40
inside of here of like when you've gone through this from
18:43
that operational rigor and you build those things, is it how
18:47
often do you have to go back to the standard operating
18:49
procedures or that that those Slas and say, you know what,
18:53
forsake your conversation? Hey, Carl, you sold this thing
18:56
over here. You know what, it adapts our
18:59
standard operating procedures and our and our operational.
19:02
So as much as you want to say it's delivered in 10 weeks, I'm
19:06
just making an example. We actually need 14 weeks and
19:10
that's got to be communicated with the customer.
19:12
Let's build a plan together to communicate that because it's
19:15
something we've not done before. How do you have those
19:18
conversations around entering it with looking at the the
19:21
operations and making an adjustment for for
19:25
repeatability, not just one offs?
19:28
There there's great question and I think there are two layers
19:31
that should be considered. 1 is how do we handle that
19:36
variability with, with the sales team, the OR the person, the,
19:39
the, the individual who has brought us that deal, which is
19:42
obviously incredibly important because we want this, we want
19:45
the the deals to be as standard as, as an operations guy, we
19:48
want those deals to be as standard as possible for
19:50
execution sake. And I'll come back to that.
19:53
On the other side of that coin, though, is the the requirement
19:56
or obligation of the leader to get their team on board with
19:59
this non standard approach. Because that's that's you know.
20:04
We like predictability, all of us, whether you're a leader or
20:08
whether you're a, a person on the front line with fingers on
20:10
keyboards. And when that predictability is
20:13
is upset or off kilter errors become more prominent, People
20:19
are left to guess rather than they have an, a, a black and
20:22
white SOP that they followed for weeks, months or years.
20:25
So part of our job as the leader on the operation side is to be
20:29
that that kind of change agent to to remind people that this is
20:33
our lifeblood. Like you may not like this and
20:36
you may not, you may not like these non standard approaches.
20:39
It's our responsibility to create a template or some type
20:42
of intake form or create at least relationship so so that
20:45
the people on the sales side recognize how important or how
20:48
complex some of these seemingly small changes or differences
20:51
might be. That's incredibly important, but
20:54
it's our obligation to bring our team along in a way that reminds
20:59
them that we're not going to settle for mediocrity.
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And, and, and if standard is, is the recipe that you're most
21:06
comfortable with, this may not be the right place for you.
21:08
Because if we're not stretching, being innovative, trying
21:11
different approaches, different approaches, not just to what we
21:13
sell, but how we operate to your, to your scenario, a brand
21:16
new vertical, like we're here because we're needed.
21:20
And I think that's often overlooked or, or not even
21:22
discussed. It's like if it were easy, none
21:24
of us would be in this role. So it's, it's, it's called work.
21:26
There's going to be some tough things that we have to overcome,
21:29
but if we're aligned on how we overcome them, it makes the
21:32
challenges much less difficult to, to, to, to navigate.
21:37
Now, if, if it becomes, then there's a broader organizational
21:43
kind of rub that needs to be considered.
21:45
If there are more exceptions to the rule than there are rules,
21:48
then then that's probably explored, right?
21:52
But it also, to your point, provides U.S. data, provides us
21:55
opportunities to learn from. Is this change adding the value
21:58
that we hope, you know, are we are we spending more, more man
22:01
hours or woman hours on this? That makes although this shiny
22:04
might this shiny object that we just signed with this mountains
22:07
of revenue behind it, or maybe it's costing us more to actually
22:09
do that work, right. So the more standard we can
22:12
become just on the intake side in, in establishing the new
22:16
baselines of the, the, the KPIs and SL as that come with that
22:19
new relationship or that new engagement.
22:22
We now have a jumping off point. We have a baseline to use for
22:25
maybe future similar deals or maybe this one on its own.
22:28
We have a baseline to start gauging progress and improvement
22:31
on your, your, your. There was a specific component
22:34
of your question of how often do we go back and look at those
22:37
things in that situation. I don't really have a great
22:40
answer for that, but I will tell you, I'll tell you when it's not
22:43
the right time, not the right time to only do it when
22:45
something breaks. And I've been in some, some
22:48
really, really mature organizations that have like
22:51
these monthly kind of like get well meetings.
22:54
They all, they all usually have their own branding or some kind
22:56
of inspiring term behind it. But the, the, the, the spirit of
23:00
the of these meetings is to unpack the gnarly scenarios that
23:04
that surfaced over the course of the last month, identify, you
23:07
know, what went wrong, why it went wrong.
23:08
Maybe it was just something as simple as communication, which
23:11
sounds simple but isn't easy. Or maybe it was just the way
23:14
something was documented. Also sounds simple but not
23:16
necessarily easy. I I would just encourage your
23:20
audience if you feel like you are being disciplined and
23:24
rigorous enough in exploring, double checking, triple checking
23:28
the outcomes and intentions that you expected to see for whatever
23:31
initiative we're talking about. It has to be done with some
23:37
rigor, consistency, and scheduling.
23:40
So for example, if we wait for something to be broken, well,
23:43
now our hair's on fire, we've lost, we've lost a lot of
23:46
subjectivity and, or objectivity rather.
23:51
And we're focused on putting this fire out rather than
23:53
improving. But if we approach these things
23:56
on a more consistent, scheduled basis, not when the house is on
23:59
fire, we have an opportunity to more objectively see like what
24:02
the problem is and where the right solution might be found.
24:06
It's a good way of staying connected with your, with both
24:09
sides, because operations can get you out of trouble, right?
24:12
Like you can go, hey, Kyle, I got this one.
24:15
It's a little bit different or you know what, we hey, can you
24:19
get this delivered or can we put a great team on it?
24:21
There's a communication, right? Like there's a hey, look,
24:24
operations can make you go real fast.
24:26
The same time you can make operations go real slow for you.
24:29
And there's a, there is a rub, there's a push and pull because
24:33
it, you know, like you said, I like, I like how you said it is,
24:36
you know, you're delivering the outcome of the thing that was
24:40
promised. And so, and it comes back to
24:42
you. And now it's having that
24:43
unification. I'll say that word of like, hey,
24:47
we go to the customer. This is what we said we're going
24:49
to do. This is what the operations team
24:51
said we were going to do. Like this is how we're going to
24:53
deliver. Here's the thing though, what we
24:57
mentioned, we're a little bit backed up.
24:59
We have this or whatever the challenges, but I think there's
25:02
going into those, those conversations in my experience
25:06
of having that both sides come to the to the table and say,
25:09
look, we're here to make this work.
25:12
We're going to need either this or we're going to need a little
25:14
bit of time or we need to tweak something a little bit different
25:16
because, you know, and then it's, hey, we missed a step.
25:19
And I'll just say we, because ultimately we as the company try
25:23
to support the end customer. So I, I like the, I like how you
25:27
said that, of making sure that you're connected because it's
25:30
important. Operations are the things that
25:33
can turn you quickly and you have to have some exploration,
25:37
but looking at those SO. PS And that continues
25:39
innovation. I've had the experience of going
25:42
through with, with automation and manufacturing, but going
25:47
through that Kaizen method of mindset.
25:49
I don't know if that's something you and your teams have had to
25:53
do in the past. So the Kaizen side, which I, I
25:58
did like, and I brought it into software, was using that red,
26:00
yellow, the red green, and it was at Daily Visual Management.
26:04
Is something on track? Is it off track?
26:07
And so maybe my question to you is, how do you, how, when, when
26:10
you've LED these large teams, what's your method or how do you
26:14
make sure that you know that everything is operational to the
26:17
exact where you want to? And if something's off track,
26:20
how, how do you identify? So you dig in and fix it.
26:24
Yeah, that's the, that's the, that's the operators.
26:29
You know, you, we, we we're often asked the question, what
26:32
keeps you up at night? It's for me, it was always the
26:34
things that I don't know. And that sounds kind of obvious
26:38
maybe, but so most good operator, I would say every good
26:42
operator, they have the, the encyclopedia or maybe better yet
26:46
the Bible of reports. So there's a dashboard, right?
26:49
And there's usually a layer underneath that dashboard that
26:51
allows you to drill down, drill down, drill down in, in, in, in
26:54
the most of mature organizations, sometimes it's a
26:56
little bit of chewing gum and duct tape.
26:58
And I get that. But the point is we, we, we make
27:03
most of our decisions based on data.
27:07
You know, obviously feelings or emotions play a role.
27:10
We're human, but, but having a, a, a, a robust data set to say
27:16
what's going well, what's not going well is this having the
27:18
intended outcomes or impact we're supposed we're expecting
27:20
to see or not. But I'll say I, I actually
27:24
approach it a little bit differently maybe than most.
27:27
I like to remind people. So let's pretend, Carl, you're
27:30
in the sales organization, you brought us a new deal and you
27:33
and I are peers and you know, we, we've had a discovery
27:36
session and we, we figured out how we're going to go
27:38
operationalize this. So whether it's that scenario or
27:42
any other transformation or change initiative or new thing,
27:46
I like to 1st remind people what's not changing.
27:50
And that's, and that's, that, that might be secondary to the
27:55
way most people approach it. But here's my point.
27:58
In the face of so much change, that's all the way to like the
28:01
downright transformation. You have to think about,
28:05
especially in a large organization, we have to think
28:07
about every layer of the organization that has fingers or
28:12
anything to do with this transformation, this change.
28:16
And because the more senior people in the organization
28:19
understand the path that we're taking, the reason for this
28:21
change, why we're doing what we're doing, why we signed, why
28:24
we signed this new client with these these really out of scope
28:27
requirements, people are left to guess and they're left to guess
28:33
what matters most. Who do I go to for what?
28:35
What matters most around here? What's happening to our culture?
28:38
What's changing as a result of this new transformation or this
28:40
new client or this new implementation?
28:43
So I like to lead with here's what's not changing how we
28:47
behave, not changing what what we hold dear, not changing the
28:51
principles that in my case, the 10 we's the observable behaviors
28:55
that we hold each other accountable to and hold
28:57
ourselves hold ourselves accountable to not changing
29:01
where you go, not changing, of course, unless there's some
29:04
organizational component that's that's in scope.
29:07
But my point here is, is the more outspoken and conspicuous
29:11
we can be on the non negotiables, the things that no
29:13
matter what we do, once you, once you put this badge on, no
29:16
matter what we do, nothing is changing in terms of how we
29:19
treat each other, our behavioral expectations, accountability,
29:22
ownership, you know, you know, the things that make us, us,
29:27
doesn't matter who's here, who's around us, what transformation
29:30
we're taking on, what new client, those things are not
29:31
changing. And that in itself, I think
29:33
promotes a bit of stability in the face of what feels like
29:37
radical change. And of course, it depends again
29:39
on the size of the transformation or the
29:41
implementation we're talking about.
29:43
But if, unless we're conspicuous about those expectations, we get
29:47
caught up in this flavor of the day, this new shiny object you
29:50
talked about, we start making decisions that are not
29:52
consistent with our values or our principles.
29:54
Like we're going to cut this corner because the client
29:56
doesn't quite care. They don't care quite as much
29:59
about this one requirement as, as maybe another does.
30:01
Or, you know, maybe we're going to, we're going to cut our cycle
30:03
time for QA down. Or, you know, whatever the
30:06
corner cut might be, or the, OR the, OR the lack of focus of
30:10
details #10 as we obsess over details, whatever shortcuts
30:13
those might, however they might be represented or manifest when
30:19
the leader steps out front to say that's not who we are.
30:22
That I know this is, this is big change and it might be
30:25
uncomfortable. And I'm going to share with you
30:27
how uncomfortable I am with the change because I'm going to be
30:29
relatable and be human about it. I'm not going to stand on stage
30:31
and tell you we shouldn't be nervous.
30:32
I'll tell you we are nervous if I am.
30:36
When we when we over index on our expectations of what's not
30:40
changing, it allows the things that are changing to be a little
30:43
more palatable. Which makes sense.
30:47
Which now leads me to the question of the things that can
30:51
change and the things that aren't changing.
30:53
We, we, we kind of centered this conversation around operations
30:57
and increasing revenue. So with everything we've kind of
31:00
talked about of setting it up, like there's daily visual
31:02
management, there's communication, there's, like you
31:05
said, the things that aren't what's not changing.
31:08
And you know, looking at it like, when's the right time to
31:12
dig into it and when's the time to to fix something?
31:16
Well, it's not when things are broken.
31:17
Let's stay proactive. So on that proactivity, how do
31:22
you talk to clients about how operations can actually help
31:26
them improve their revenue? What's that conversation sound
31:28
like? Execution, my man.
31:32
OK, I boil it down to one word, right.
31:35
So what can the operations crew do to to either maintain or
31:40
increase, hopefully increase and drive incremental additional
31:42
revenue? We got to execute on the on the
31:45
things that are right in front of us.
31:47
Yeah, there's a shiny deal around the corner that's would
31:49
drive all kinds of increased revenue and, and, and, and, and
31:53
be in the space we want to be or the logo that we want to have on
31:56
our list of clients. But if we can't execute what's
31:58
right in front of us, none of that matters.
32:01
And I used to be this guy that was just maniacally focused on
32:04
results like bang my fist on the desk.
32:06
This is the target we set. We're going to hit this come
32:08
hell or high water. No excuses and it worked for a
32:11
lot of years. But my transformation for, for
32:14
my, me personally has been to, to change my approach to gone
32:19
are the days for me at least focusing exclusively on the
32:22
results, but more appropriately and I think impactfully focusing
32:27
on the people that deliver the results.
32:29
So if the operation is let's, let's be honest and I'm used to
32:34
this throughout most of my career operations are they're
32:36
cost centers, right? They're not, they're not driving
32:38
incremental revenue unless there's a cross sale opportunity
32:41
or some something that's inherent in, in the relationship
32:44
that we have with our customers. So if we, if we recognize that
32:49
from the from the outset that we are a cost driver then and, and
32:53
we're not shy about it, like we're not biased or bitter about
32:56
it. I think that creates A paradigm
32:58
that we need to show our value. We need to add value.
33:01
Not maybe not monetarily in terms of increased revenue, but
33:04
that usually works itself out in the, in the form of repeat
33:06
business, word of mouth marketing to, to other prospects
33:11
that these are the guys and gals that you want to work with
33:12
because they're easy to do business with and they, they,
33:14
they make good on their commitments.
33:16
We number we #3 we say we're going to do and then we do it.
33:20
So, so we can approach our role as a leader inside the
33:24
operations as we're just a cost center and we're here to fulfill
33:27
orders and kind of check boxes. Or we can recognize that the
33:31
execution for which we are responsible is absolutely a
33:35
gateway to to more and increase revenue.
33:39
I think, I think the paradigm if a leader establishes that it's
33:44
not, it doesn't end there. So when we when we communicate
33:47
the value that we're trying to add as an operations unit and
33:50
what that means for all of us, more business, more
33:53
opportunities, not just for the company, right.
33:55
So if the operations group expanding is expanding because
33:58
of this new business or or our, our, our entry into another
34:01
vertical that's going to drive incremental business.
34:03
We're going to need new leaders. We're going to need we're going
34:06
to need more people to do this to do what I do.
34:08
We're going to need at at all layers we're going to, it's
34:10
going to, we're all going to benefit.
34:11
So look, at the end of the day, I, I boil it to this man, every
34:16
single one of us wants wants three things.
34:18
It's like AB CS, we want to add value.
34:20
That's the A we want to be valued.
34:23
And that's just clearly being recognized for a job well done.
34:27
Could be a promotion, could be money, could be any number of
34:29
things. We want to be, we want to be
34:31
recognized for that value. And lastly, the C is if we're
34:33
really lucky, we can connect the value that we've delivered to
34:37
those that that benefit from it. The ultimate the consumer at the
34:40
end of the day, and not every environment affords that,
34:43
especially in the operations world.
34:45
Often times we're we're processing widgets and we don't
34:47
get to see the, the, the, the awe or the impact that it's
34:50
having. That's where it's the leaders
34:53
responsibility to communicate and share, make sure that that
34:55
that connections being made. But when it's made, Carl, when
34:58
that connection is made, the value that I'm adding and how
35:01
that layers up not just to the organizational goals, but it
35:04
also puts me in a position to take on more, do more, get
35:06
promoted, maybe leave this organization, believe it or not,
35:09
to go work somewhere else. Because I've I've shown that
35:11
I've I have that that capability.
35:14
People are more committed. They're more committed to the
35:16
cause. So if we want our operations
35:18
groups, the people behind the scenes to be not just not just
35:22
care, but actually have a sense of ownership about driving
35:25
incremental revenue. It it's irrefutable that it
35:30
plays itself out in, in, in terms of higher output, more
35:34
optimal outcomes, a better product or service that we offer
35:37
because now people can connect it to something bigger than just
35:39
what the boss has told him to do.
35:42
I I like the AB CS add value be recognized, connect the value.
35:47
I think that I like that because that and the execution are
35:50
inherent in my. What I'm hearing is they're
35:52
inherently linked. If your AB CS are connected
35:55
execution, then the output is what you're expecting.
35:57
Yes, well said. Right on.
35:59
Which is great. So on the on the conversation of
36:03
adding value. So I know you talked to lots of
36:07
leaders about this. When you say to them you got to
36:11
add value and they go, Kyle, what, what do you mean?
36:14
What is that? How do I, how do I add value?
36:16
What do you tell them? Well, it's, it's different for
36:20
every role. So if you have direct reports,
36:23
if you're a leader in the organization, in my mind, you,
36:25
you really have one stream of value to add and that's
36:28
development and growth of those that you lead.
36:30
And that might sound a little woo woo or a little cliche for
36:33
some, but here's the truth. When, when, when people we lead
36:40
are able to connect the value that they theoretically bring to
36:43
the workplace every single day. They don't work less hard.
36:48
They, they, they move from compliance to commitment.
36:51
So I try to create what's called a culture of excellence.
36:54
It's not perfection. It's not and it's not.
36:58
It is, it is the, it is the vibe or the energy inside of an
37:02
organization. But there's an ethos there that
37:04
I've defined at least inside of what I call a culture of
37:07
excellence. And it's the aligned pursuit of
37:09
individual and organizational goals.
37:12
There's more to it than that, but I'm I'm breaking it down to
37:14
like that one, this one sentence when when a leader and members
37:19
of their team are aligned on the individual's goals, want to get
37:23
promoted, You want to take on more.
37:25
Maybe you want my job. Maybe you want to leave this
37:27
organization to go take on something else.
37:29
Maybe you're just here for a short period of time to stack
37:31
enough cash to start your own side hustle.
37:33
Whatever it is, the more I can be can as your leader, the more
37:37
I'm aware of what motivates you, inspires you.
37:40
And by the way, I'm not naive. Some people want to show up,
37:42
collect paycheck and go home. No problem with that as well.
37:44
That's that's good on you. I have no no issue with that.
37:48
But if I know what motivates and inspires you other than that
37:50
paycheck, why, why, why do you come to work?
37:53
Let's we all have to. You know, if you have a badge,
37:56
if you're showing up at A at a job, it's most likely safe to
37:59
say you're not independently wealthy.
38:01
We have bills, we have commitments, things we got to do
38:02
right, But that aside, because that is that's table stakes,
38:07
right? Everybody comes to work
38:10
primarily for income. Let's get that out of the way.
38:12
So that doesn't you're not unique because you that's that's
38:15
why you're here. But when we connect on the
38:18
things that inspire you, motivate you and that drive you
38:20
to do what you do beyond that paycheck, we unlock a we unlock
38:25
a level of ownership and commitment that is not there
38:28
otherwise. So my, my, my point here, Carl,
38:31
is we can talk all day about KP is and goals and metrics and SO
38:37
PS and whatever acronym you want to throw out there at the end of
38:41
the day, nobody really cares about those things unless they
38:43
see what's in it for them. It's it's true in, in in today's
38:48
workplace, there are more opportunities and options for
38:50
people than ever before with work at home being what it is,
38:53
you know, gig, the gig economy, we're no longer confined to a
38:55
zip code. You and I are having this
38:57
conversation from different countries.
38:59
Yeah. So people have opportunities to
39:02
go anywhere, do just about anything they want to do if they
39:04
put their mind to it. So while we have them in the
39:07
organization that we're in, leading the team that we lead,
39:10
it's an obligation to help them on their path.
39:13
And when you show interest in what they want to do next, and I
39:16
don't know, maybe even help them get to that next stop, even if
39:19
it means them leaving your team, do you think they work less
39:22
hard? Of course not once they see that
39:25
their leader is invested in their growth, not just in what
39:27
that person can do for them or for the team.
39:30
There's a connection that is is is much more authentic, much
39:33
more genuine and last much longer than the tenure of the of
39:37
the role that you're in. Carl.
39:38
I still have one on ones with people I haven't worked with in
39:40
over over a decade. Really True.
39:43
Yeah, it's true, man. Because they know I care about
39:45
them and their growth and their development.
39:47
What's next for them? They bounce ideas off me.
39:49
And likewise, I've, you know, I've been, I've started work on
39:51
my second book and my, my group of confidants that I used to
39:55
have one on ones with because they reported to me.
39:57
They're, they're still my confidants.
39:59
Just because we don't have the same badges any longer, it
40:01
doesn't mean I don't value their input.
40:02
So it's something that once you find that space, dude, I'm
40:05
telling you the, the loyalty that comes of that from that and
40:09
the connections that are made and the value that you're able
40:12
to help them deliver. And oh, by the way, they help
40:15
you deliver is a profound thing to be a part of.
40:20
It's amazing. I actually not to, not to say me
40:24
too. There's a little bit of like
40:25
there. I actually have a handful of
40:28
people that I maintain one on ones with on a on a regular
40:31
basis. And I say regular, like monthly,
40:34
you know, hey, I want to talk to you about this or I just want to
40:36
be able to, to jump onto that or hey, you know, whatever it is.
40:39
But we have a regular cadence that's set up and it's it's not
40:44
they don't report to me. We don't like at the same time
40:47
as like I'm helping. I my belief is that I'm helping
40:50
them grow in some aspect, right? I I like to say you can't buy
40:54
experience, but you can learn from experience.
40:57
You can learn from a lot of bad mistake or mistakes that I've
41:01
made or, you know, I want to learn from the ones that you've
41:03
made. That's it's part of the, it's
41:06
part of the human experience, man.
41:07
And you can be, you can be. And I was this guy, I should
41:10
admit, in my 30 years in the corporate world, the 1st 20 was
41:15
a very different Kyle than the one you're speaking to today.
41:18
I'd like to think deep inside, I was pretty much the same guy.
41:21
But how I conducted myself as a leader, the way I approached my
41:24
teams, the way I demanded results has changed
41:28
dramatically. And I'll tell you the level of
41:30
so I'll, I'm, I'm, you know, with some degree of arrogance, I
41:34
was always the guy that delivered right.
41:36
You would never question if you put Kyle on something, was it
41:39
going to get done or not It was going to get done.
41:41
The question probably was, you know, how is it getting done?
41:44
Is it in the most ethical way? Is it the most uplifting and and
41:47
positive way? And what impact is it having on
41:49
those around him? Was probably the better set of
41:51
questions to ask. But I point this out because
41:54
from that first 20 years, the number of people that I'm left
41:56
with that I still have those genuine connections with pales
41:59
in comparison to the last 10. So I mentioned that I still have
42:03
these one on ones. I won't exaggerate this.
42:08
Six or seven people that I still have those types of consistent
42:11
interactions with, four or five of them were for the last decade
42:15
where the math would say that doesn't make sense.
42:17
The first 20 years you should have more than the last 10
42:18
years. It didn't work that way for me
42:20
because I changed how I approached my leadership game
42:23
chasing connection, not just results.
42:25
And when you have the connection, the results come.
42:28
And I would be willing to bet that it's also a ascending, a
42:32
changing of the times too, because for me, when I'm
42:35
entering the workforce and my first managers that I ever had,
42:40
the way that they spoke to me is very different than how we're
42:46
spoken to today. And to be honest, brother,
42:49
that's why I'm not quite as hard on myself as I maybe should be,
42:52
because I was simply a product of the environment in which I
42:55
was raised, right? I, I want, I was screamed at by
42:59
my bosses. You know, I, I had fists banged
43:01
on the desk in front of me. I had a leader tell me to change
43:04
numbers to match numbers that he like really, you know, lack of
43:07
integrity, like really shady shit.
43:10
So I was a product of that. I didn't know any better, right?
43:12
And that's, but that's what still happens.
43:15
So yes, the environment has changed and how we approach
43:17
people has absolutely changed. People have a lower tolerance
43:20
for environments like that now. So, so, so yes, the environment
43:26
has changed. However, at the end of the day,
43:32
we're still talking about people and how we motivate and inspire
43:36
them. And the people being the most
43:38
important ingredient of the whole leadership equation that
43:41
has not changed. So while how we get the results
43:45
might, might, should rather not might should change, at the end
43:51
we just have to remember that we're we're talking about
43:53
people. But what happens, which is so
43:55
insidious inside of most if not all organizations has not
44:00
changed. And that it's this notion that
44:03
for me to be promoted, for me to be endeared by my boss, I need
44:08
to take on those same shitty leadership traits that I have
44:11
loathed in him or her for the past number of years.
44:15
It's a natural human reaction, right?
44:17
So we see these behaviors and leaders that we just can't get
44:20
down with that that we just loathe.
44:23
All of a sudden they've been promoted and now they're
44:24
responsible for hiring their replacement.
44:26
So what do we do? We start to emulate those same
44:29
shitty behaviors that we that we just despised.
44:32
And then this cycle repeats and until someone steps in the
44:36
middle of that and says, there's got to be a better way, which is
44:39
the question that really set me off on the journey that I'm on
44:41
now. There has to be a better way and
44:43
there is. But until somebody steps in the
44:45
middle of that, that cycle and says, I am well bent on finding
44:49
that better way. I may not know what it is for
44:50
me, but I know I, I cannot continue to perpetuate this
44:54
because I'm lacking the fulfilment that I look we all
44:57
into the workplace, the workforce at, at our younger,
45:00
our younger selves with a lot of optimism, eagerness.
45:02
We want to make an impact. We want to add value, do big
45:04
things, and over time, the machine kind of sucks that out
45:07
of us. We become kind of more
45:08
compliant. Then we are committed to our own
45:11
growth in the in, in, in, in, in our company.
45:14
So the cycle continues to go on and on and on and on.
45:18
So while the actual environments have changed, we still find
45:21
ourselves kind of mirroring shitty behavior in hopes that it
45:23
provides a better outcome for us.
45:26
And ultimately, all we'd end up doing is alienate the next round
45:28
of leaders. My dad was in HR for his entire
45:33
like a chief, a chief HR officer, right?
45:35
Like, and anyways, he told me when I entered the, the, the
45:39
job, like when I entered the working world, he always said to
45:42
me, he goes, you're going to learn more.
45:43
And it's very similar to, to sports.
45:45
You learn more in a loss than you're in a win, right?
45:47
Like winning clears all. But he always said he goes,
45:50
you're going to, you're going to learn more from bad leaders that
45:55
you will from good leaders, and you'll find the things you'll
45:57
never want to do from those bad leaders.
46:00
But I agree with you though, is you start to emulate the
46:03
behaviors of the people that are being promoted and that doesn't
46:06
help. Yeah, well, if I do this thing,
46:10
'cause I watched that person do that, then that's going to be
46:13
me. But I think there's also like, I
46:15
like what you said is and I, I mean, to me, I've changed as
46:17
well, right? Like you start to change your
46:19
ways and go, you know what? I don't need to do that anymore.
46:23
That's not what I need to do. I I need to be able to do it.
46:25
And I think the best advice that was given to me is you don't
46:29
manage people, you lead people and you manage metrics.
46:34
That made a change for me, so. True.
46:37
So true. So anyways, I'm looking at the
46:39
time. Holy cow, 46 minutes.
46:41
Sorry, I said we were going to get you out of here if we can
46:46
get into the wrap up Kyle 'cause I think I could talk to you for
46:48
hours. Everybody likes new, nobody
46:50
likes different. And when you do both at the same
46:52
time and cause friction or uncertainty.
46:55
So for somebody thinking about levelling up their operational
46:57
game or you know, trying to make sure that they improve their
46:59
operations to to generate more revenue, what are two or three
47:03
actionable things that you can tell somebody, hey, on Monday
47:06
morning go look or go do these two or three things and that
47:10
will help put you on a path for success?
47:14
Man, that's a tough one, Carl, because with all respect, I
47:18
don't mean to to be crass, that implies that there's a hack or
47:22
that there is a do this and that will happen.
47:25
And that's not really the case. It's do this and then do it
47:28
again and then do it again and then do it again.
47:31
I say our leadership is judged not not by our grand
47:34
proclamations or how we handle a town hall or a staff meeting.
47:38
Our leadership is determined in those small kind of unseen
47:43
moments. And I say it's, it's judged
47:45
every day, but not just every day.
47:46
It's every interaction, how I behave, are my words matching
47:51
the behaviors that I expect out of you, those types of things.
47:53
So, so when we talk about a scenario where I walk in Monday
47:56
morning and what can I do to, to, to, to start driving change
47:59
or be the impactful leader that I want to be?
48:01
I think it starts with setting expectations.
48:03
Like we talked about earlier. It's, but it's, it's at a level
48:06
that I think a lot of leaders are scared to talk about or at
48:09
least uncomfortable to talk about.
48:11
And that is establish the, the non negotiables, the clear
48:15
observable behavioral standards that are required for us to be
48:19
excellent. And, and that was the genesis of
48:21
the 10 we's right. I got tired of the corporate
48:23
kool-aid and the malaise that in the, in frankly, the apathy that
48:27
I was feeling after 20 years into my career.
48:29
I traded my desire for impact and, and doing big things just
48:33
to fit in to get along, to kind of keep my head down and keep
48:36
those checks coming, which which left me nothing but apathetic
48:43
maybe among other things. But my point is, is when we
48:46
establish the behavioral expectations for one and all,
48:50
and they have to start with you, the leader, because the team's
48:53
watching to see if your words are aligning with your actions
48:56
or if you're a hypocrite. And nobody's going to follow you
48:58
if, if they don't align. So if, if, if we're having this
49:02
conversation on a Thursday or Friday and you've decided I'm
49:04
going to find this better way, I'm going to leave differently.
49:07
I'm going to be the leader I never had or maybe the leader I
49:09
always wanted to be. It starts with a lot of self
49:12
reflection to say, you know, what's it like to be led by me?
49:16
Am I making good on my commitments?
49:18
Are members of my team comfortable sharing bad news
49:20
with me? You know, think through.
49:21
And for me, it, it worked out this way.
49:23
I went through a series. This this happened in one
49:25
evening. It was an epiphany evening for
49:27
me. I, I replayed decades of really
49:31
bad experiences with my leaders. They left me feeling less than
49:35
whole left me feeling as if I was like a means to an end, like
49:38
I was an easily replaced billet. And then I juxtaposed those with
49:42
the handful of leaders that inspired me and continue to
49:44
inspire me. Maybe saw more in me than I saw
49:47
in myself or gave me chances or opportunities to do things that
49:50
maybe I wasn't ready for. And it was through that self
49:53
reflection that I realized, and this is the genesis, the 10
49:55
we's. It's like we ain't going to do
49:57
that. When I go through the the the
49:59
Group A of the those bad leaders, we ain't going to do
50:01
that. We're not going to be that group
50:02
that's responsible for known for backstabbing and duplicitous.
50:07
That's not who we are. And then I, when I replayed the,
50:10
the favorable leadership interactions, like that's who we
50:12
are, that's what we want to be. And I turned them into 10
50:15
sentences that are basically our rules for of engagement, how we,
50:18
how we treat each other, how we show up for one another, not
50:21
just the leader, but there's got to be this level playing field.
50:24
No leadership gap. What I call what's good for me
50:26
is good for you and vice versa. So when we when we have that
50:29
self reflection and we land on the things that we hold dear,
50:32
the things that are most important for me, it was these
50:34
ten we's 10 principles. You got to share them widely, be
50:39
open to push back, be transparent about you're not
50:42
going to be perfect at this because you just discovered them
50:44
as well. But I think guys, if we all
50:46
rally around these same set of observable behaviors, we're
50:49
going to be better off because of nothing else.
50:51
We're not guessing about what I, the leader, think.
50:53
You're not. You're not left to your own
50:55
devices to to assume what I meant when I said this, because
50:58
you know, what I say is what I mean.
50:59
What I mean is what I say all of this is probably easily
51:04
categorized under one bullet and that is just establishing
51:07
expectations as fiercely for behavior as we do for
51:11
operations. We, we're very clear on the
51:14
KPIs, the success metric, how we determine whether or not you're
51:17
going to keep your job or not. I think we have to index just as
51:19
hard and just as emphatically on how we do what we do.
51:24
So, you know, I, I responded to your question with kind of a, a
51:28
cop out to say that, that there's not really this Monday
51:31
morning thing, but when you do that on Monday, you got to come
51:34
back and do it again Tuesday. There's probably an opportunity
51:36
for you to, to exhibit it throughout that day on Monday
51:39
and so forth. So when you establish these
51:42
behavioral expectations, the team is watching to see if you
51:44
live them and your best, your best path for, for getting them
51:48
to see that is to remind them, like literally remind them, Hey,
51:51
listen, we embrace challenge, right?
51:52
So I know we got this gnarly thing in front of us, but as
51:55
you, as you guys know, I, I told you, we're going to embrace
51:57
challenge. So this is me embracing like
51:58
literally saying the words because again, people are they,
52:02
they care less about your words and how your action connects
52:05
with those words. But when you say it over and
52:07
over again and your actions start to support and augment
52:10
what you're saying, now we have some trust.
52:13
Now this guy's telling me how he really feels.
52:15
I'm not left to guess what he's thinking.
52:17
And you know, am I just a means to an end for him?
52:21
The categorization of those setting expectations is
52:24
critical. But none of this happens without
52:26
a bit of vulnerability. The self reflection I talked
52:28
about and just being open to leading in a different way.
52:31
So when I get a keynote, I walk through kind of if you've
52:35
decided to implement the ten we's in your, in your
52:37
organization or, or just you personally, you want to live
52:40
these these 10 principles. First step after that is be
52:43
prepared because it's going to be awkward.
52:45
It's going to be uncomfortable because you're leading in a way
52:47
that you never have led before. People are going to question
52:49
your sincerity. Did you just read some book or
52:51
maybe listen to to Carl's podcast and you think this is a
52:54
better way? So they're looking to see if
52:56
it's just a, as you said, a shiny initiative.
52:59
And you know this brother, we start the shiny initiative and
53:03
we don't go through with it. We're but we're worse off than
53:05
never having started it. So I would say unless you're
53:08
committed to this long term change and it is hard, man, it
53:12
is hard. You will work harder.
53:13
You have to work harder, but it becomes more fulfilling and the
53:16
impact becomes much more obvious.
53:18
Just be ready. And that's the be prepared part
53:20
because it's going to create a different set of needs and
53:23
circumstances that your teams will have of you and their
53:25
expectations of you will change. But you'll be OK with that when
53:29
you start to see the connections you're making and the results
53:31
that are coming. Does that make sense man?
53:33
Totally. What I heard, the thing that I
53:35
take away from that is do what you say you're going to do
53:38
integrity above all. And if you have those things,
53:41
people will follow. But if you don't have those
53:44
things, people are going to question and then it'll be it'll
53:46
be a challenge. Yeah.
53:48
But also I think it's important to not hold yourself to this
53:52
like perfection or the OR or be on a perfection pedestal, if you
53:55
will. So when you air, by the way,
53:58
when the leader makes a mistake or the boss flubs up 9 times out
54:02
of the 10 out of 10, the team is well aware of it.
54:04
Even if you don't share it. They, they see you floundering,
54:07
they see the mistake that you've made and they're actually
54:09
waiting for you to own it. So my point is, is once you
54:14
start to evangelize, this is who we are, this is how we behave.
54:16
These are the expectations. You're going to make a mistake,
54:21
you're going to react like, for example, I talked about we
54:23
embrace challenge. Somebody's going to challenge
54:25
you and you're going to lean into your business card and say,
54:26
because I said so, maybe not in so many words, but your your
54:29
response will have that kind of flavor to it.
54:32
Dead on arrival, right? Then you're dead on arrival
54:35
because you're being a hypocrite.
54:36
You've expected them to behave a certain way and you're not doing
54:38
it unless, unless you can either circle back to that person or
54:43
group of people and tell them, man, I blew it.
54:45
I was thinking about how I handled that meeting earlier,
54:47
that conversation, and you brought up a really important
54:50
challenge or something that I had not yet considered and I did
54:53
not hear you out. I should express curiosity and I
54:56
didn't do that. And that's my bad.
54:57
That's my bad. But I'm comfortable telling you
54:59
it's my bad because that's who we are.
55:00
We own our mistakes, right? That level of humanity and
55:04
relatability goes so far in establishing trust more so than
55:07
anything else you could say probably.
55:09
Then I blew it. So anyway, I just, I want to
55:12
insert that because once you establish them, you're not going
55:15
to be perfect about it adhering to it.
55:18
It's going to be a challenge over and over again.
55:21
And people, by the way, I've had this personally, people will
55:23
challenge, challenge you, your approach, your ideas just
55:29
because they've been burned in the past and they're skeptical.
55:32
It's usually not about you. It's about their previous
55:34
experiences that tells them that you're a fraud.
55:37
So they're, they're the ones that are really watching for you
55:39
to drop the ball for you to, for you to fumble and not be
55:41
consistent with your words and actions.
55:44
And the more, the more and the quicker you can own those slides
55:47
and those missteps, the more you will endear those.
55:50
Endear yourself for those you lead.
55:53
Awesome. Is it?
55:54
This has been so much fun, Kyle. I've I, I'm, I, I'm walking away
55:58
from all kinds of insights and I've got an entire page of notes
56:02
like I actually can't write anymore on this page.
56:04
So thank you for this. I know we got to go.
56:08
Where can people find you if they want to pay attention or or
56:10
talk to you a little bit more or even learn more about what
56:12
you're up to? Yeah, thanks.
56:14
Thanks for that opportunity to share.
56:16
Basically every social media platform is Kyle McDowell Inc.
56:21
My website is kylemcdowellinc.com and you've
56:23
been really kind to mention the book a few times.
56:26
It's begin with WE 10 Principles for Building and Sustaining a
56:29
Culture of Excellence. It's a Wall Street Journal in
56:31
USA TODAY best seller wherever books are sold.
56:34
I'd be grateful for you to check that out.
56:36
And by the way, I share those social media handles not out of
56:40
vanity state because I don't really care about those things,
56:42
but I use them to engage. So members of your audience
56:44
heard something that maybe inspired them or compelled them
56:47
to find a better way. I'd love to hear from you or
56:49
maybe you have a question or maybe you think I'm full of
56:50
shit. Feel free to reach out and let
56:53
me know that as well. I just think it's a great
56:55
communication conduit. Amazing.
56:56
There's been a lot of fun, Kyle. And we've gone basically an hour
57:00
when I said, hey, you asked me how long is this going to be?
57:02
I'm like, yeah, about 45 minutes.
57:03
So it's been fun. And thank you for all the
57:05
communication back and forth. I, Kyle and I have only spoken a
57:09
couple of times, like preparing. We don't know each other.
57:12
Like you said, he's in, he's in Florida.
57:14
I'm in Ontario, Canada. He's what I can say is genuine.
57:19
That's the thing I walk away from.
57:20
You're very genuine with your, with what you say, what you do.
57:24
And I, I feel that from across, across the continent, across the
57:30
countries, I should say, and I really like what you've said is,
57:33
is the, we, the power of we and turning it to a team, because
57:39
everybody's going to do more if you focus on that.
57:42
So it's been a pleasure to, to do this with you And thank you
57:45
for for being able to sit and talk to me about your experience
57:49
and, and everything because it's, it's, it's been awesome.
57:52
Well, brother, you're doing really important work with your
57:54
show and I'm, I'm humbled to be a part of it.
57:56
So thank you for the opportunity.
57:58
Too kind. That's going to wrap up another
58:00
episode of the Revenue Problem. Solvers obviously want to thank
58:02
Kyle for sharing incredibly invaluable insights.
58:04
There's some strategies here that you can put into action
58:06
tomorrow. Remember, success leaves clues
58:08
in every revenue problem has a solution.
58:10
Sometimes you just need the right conversation to find it.
58:14
Until next time, it's Carl with the revenue problems helping you
58:16
turn your obstacles and your opportunities.
58:18
Thank you for spending your time with us today and we'll see you
58:21
in the next episode.