Latest / The Kink Consultant / What Happens On Kinky Cruises? With Lee of ConCations

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What Happens On Kinky Cruises? With Lee of ConCations · The Kink Consultant

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  It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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  on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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• 1:01
  Hey, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of The King
• 1:04
  Consultant. I'm joined by Lee, the founder
• 1:06
  of Caucasians. Welcome, Lee.
• 1:08
  Hey. I'm really honored and excited
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  to be here. Well, I'm really excited to have
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  you. A little bit of background for
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  the listeners. I was on Fetlife and I saw
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  something about Caucasians and a kinky cruise.
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  I went into sleuth mode and I was like, who started this?
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  When is it happening and how do I get involved?
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  Literally, I emailed support in Caucasians because I was like,
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  hello, I need to talk to somebody.
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  And Lee was gracious enough to e-mail me back within like 2
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  hours so that we could have a chat.
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  And Lee, the thing that like mostly got me and we're going to
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  talk about this today is the kinky cruise.
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  But Caucasians is a huge operation, so much bigger than
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  just a cruise. Yeah, and that is such a great
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  reaction. That's exactly what I want to
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  hear. That's the reaction we want to
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  have when people see our stuff. So I'm happy to hear that.
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  But yeah, we do a few events a year right now.
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  I wouldn't call us a huge operation, but definitely a
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  growing operation. And we've been around for about
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  10 years. The name Caucasians basically
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  just means convention or conference and vacation.
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  And the concepts basically is that unlike your typical hotel
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  takeover, you know, we've all been to the Kink Khan, the
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  weekend King Khan at the airport, Holiday Inn Express,
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  and they're great. You know, we love going to the
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  local, you know, regional takeovers.
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  And it's a great opportunity to get away for a weekend and meet
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  your your tribe and your friends and all that.
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  But they always left me wanting. I always came home absolutely
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  mentally and physically exhausted.
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  And I felt like I was missing something.
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  And I had started going to Hedonism to resort in Jamaica
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  with my partners and friends. And I realized this would be the
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  perfect place to do a kink event.
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  And there's not a lot of kink happening at this resort because
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  it's mostly swingers that go there.
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  I also am a little bit of, so my wife and I are also a little bit
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  of swingers as well. We dabble and play, but we're
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  really more lifestyle kinky people and I was like this
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  resort is fun, but it was so much more fun if we had a bunch
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  of KD people here. So we started doing events there
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  about 10 years ago and instead of doing the weekend con where
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  you show up and it's just go, go, go, go, go.
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  We have to go get lunch now we have to go get dinner.
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  Who's going to go with us? We're going to, I have to see
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  all my friends because I only have two days to do it, if that.
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  I have to schedule 5 scenes in one day because I want to get
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  them all in with all my friends that came from out of town that
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  I never get to see. And you just leave like not
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  really connecting on the level that you want to connect.
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  It's just quick connections and you feel exhausted and you don't
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  really get to put in the time that you want and the energy to
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  really connect on a deep level with people.
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  And so I always just felt lacking.
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  And the drop sucked after those cons because not only did you
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  have some good moments, but you also felt, hey, it needs to be 3
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  more days. And then I also still need the
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  day out after vacation as a holiday, right?
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  So then, but you have to go to work usually.
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  So it's just, it's really hard. What we've done is we've taken
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  that concept, but we've taken it to resorts and now cruise ships.
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  And so you have a whole week and you don't have to go out to eat
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  or waste time and energy and stress trying to organize those
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  little outings and all of that because the food's provided,
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  it's there. We all just go and have meals
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  and share that space together. It's so relaxing and you have a
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  whole week to do it and you're not rushed to get your scenes
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  and you're sharing that space over the course of a week.
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  So you really get to know people and you meet lifelong friends
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  and you really get to know them. And then for the people, it's an
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  immersion of that. So you will come out of a week
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  long experience at one of these events.
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  It's like you've been in the lifestyle for a year.
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  Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you know, it's like you've been in
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  it for a really long time. You're not new anymore when you
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  leave. I love that I go to a lot of
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  national conventions so like I'll travel and spend the
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  weekend at a hotel and everything you just described is
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  sought on the like. Rushing around 5 scenes in one
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  day trying to catch up with all your friends and have the kinky
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  fun you were showing up to have in addition to the social
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  aspect. You are 100% correct in that.
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  And I'm like OK and the drop is tough and you don't feel like
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  you're on a vacation because you feel like you're on like at an
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  actual just convention. Like a work conference, almost.
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  Yes, exactly. So we take the work conference
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  aspect. There's a million programming
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  things going on, tons of workshops and we really focus on
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  high level education world class presenters.
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  We really take the time to interview and get to know the
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  presenters that we bring in and make sure and try to go see them
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  in person. If we can't that and make sure
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  they're a modeling good consent behavior and they really know
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  how to teach. Not just that was one of my pet
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  peeves that a lot of those like regional cons that the
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  presenters would, they might be really good at vlogging, but
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  they don't know how to teach vlogging And you'd go to the
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  workshop and you'd be like, oh, I can't learn from this person.
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  I need to just leave right now because I'm wasting my time.
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  Some of them had really good presenters too, but I don't mean
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  to knock them all, but that seemed to be a theme.
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  A lot of those regional cons, and I'm not saying we're perfect
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  either because you know, it's hard to get good presenters, but
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  we do focus on having really good presenters and workshops
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  that know how to teach as well. And so that helps too.
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  But we have the fun programming as well.
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  We do things like Kinky Olympics, which is hilarious and
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  what? Is that?
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  Super fun, kinky Olympics. It's getting really popular at
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  our events now, but we do things like silly things.
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  You can see the different events that we change it up, but you
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  know, at the current events that we have on our website, you can
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  see some of them. But like butt plug, shot put
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  tide, swimming, like races where your legs are tied, things like
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  that. They're just really silly and
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  sexual. I think we have an edging and
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  orgasms coming up here next week.
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  It's vacation at Hedonism where you have to try to edge your
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  partner but not let them go over the top.
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  And then the judges, the judges just judge it on silliness and
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  performance and fine. You know, they just, it's a very
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  serious competition that's not at all serious and it's very
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  whimsical and it's super fun to compete in.
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  It's also super fun to watch. So we always have a huge crowd,
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  even if people are not doing the games.
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  And so it's just a really fun, sexy, silly, entertaining thing
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  that we do. We usually have two or three
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  events that eat during the course of the week, and each
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  session usually has a couple of different events as well.
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  So there's maybe like 6 events and then we have the opening and
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  closing ceremonies kind of silliness as well.
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  Oh. I love that.
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  I love a good opening ceremony. A closing ceremony just make me
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  sad because I'm like, we're supposed to celebrate this being
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  over. Now.
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  You did say at this start you're like, oh, well, we're not that
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  big. I always think anyone who's
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  organizing anything of size in the kink world as being big,
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  it's not easy to do. It's hard because it's not like
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  Facebook or you know, where you put up a Facebook event.
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  Yes, we have fat life, but not all kingsters are on fat life.
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  It's a difficult thing to do. People have to come find you a
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  lot of the time. It's not like you're advertising
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  to the masses about your cruise or any of the other events.
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  So I think anyone doing something at all at scale with
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  kink, I think that's huge. So I get super excited by it.
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  I don't want you to like minimize it.
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  Well, thank you and I appreciate that because the organizer and
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  the lifestyle world, there's not a lot of love for them and
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  there's not a lot of appreciation for the amount of
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  work that goes in. And I will tell you, I mean, I
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  have a full time vanilla day job and I also do this full time.
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  There's no doubt about it. It's more than full time hours
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  to run Caucasians and the three events that we currently do.
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  And so it's a lot of work. Oh yeah.
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  I would love to do it full time, I just don't.
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  It needs to pay full time before that ever happens.
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  But I enjoy it and that's why I do it.
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  I'm just passionate about doing it.
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  Yeah, so many people think like, oh, this is a big money making
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  thing. Organizers rarely leave with
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  money. It is.
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  It is a labor of it just takes so much to put this together and
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  put a seamless event together. And I think that I just like to
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  mention it because I think there's a lot of like, wait,
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  it's a cruise, you can't expect it for nothing, right?
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  But yeah, at this point, I do want to mention that I
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  negotiated with Lee before he came on.
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  I was like, my listeners need something Lee.
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  So if I would just encourage and we're going to talk about the
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  cruise a lot more. Our company is called Concaitian
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  CONCATIONS and so concaitians.com is our main
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  website. But then the events all have
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  websites too, so Kinky cruise.com, Kinky caribbean.com
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  are probably the two main events.
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  We also have another one called Swinkation, which is SWINKATION.
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  That one bridges the gap between swingers and kinky people.
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  So they're swinky and that is a super fun event.
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  And I'm leaving tomorrow for that one in Jamaica, actually,
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  and I'm very excited about it. So it's TKC 50 for $50 off.
• 9:15
  We've got an active code going that can be used on Kinky
• 9:18
  Cruises or Swing Katian for next year.
• 9:21
  Yeah, Kinky Cruise for April and Kinky Caribbean for March right
• 9:24
  now. Perfect.
• 9:25
  So that's TKC 50 for $50 off. I need you to go check it out.
• 9:30
  But let's get back into the episode for now.
• 9:32
  I think it could be a three episode series, the topic of the
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  difference between swingers and kinky people and you bridge the
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  gap because you exist in both worlds.
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  You're absolutely right about that, and it's funny.
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  Our hosts for Swing Katian next week are called Swinky Life, and
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  they're a Poly. Two of them are the Accidental
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  Swingers podcast. Yeah, they're pretty popular.
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  You've probably heard of them. You check them out if you
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  haven't. They're a podcast that's really
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  good. And then they ended up becoming
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  swingers kind of as empty nesters.
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  And two of them were also kind of kinky first.
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  And they all kind of went from one world to the other.
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  So the swingers became kinky and the kinky people became
• 10:11
  swingers. And they ended up becoming, I
• 10:13
  know, 2 married couples that are a Poly foursome with dating the
• 10:16
  other partner as another. They call them others,
• 10:19
  significant others and it's just such an amazing thing overall.
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  And I love them as people, but I also love their dynamic and the
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  way they operate. They travel together, they swap
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  partners and they like, you know, they have other
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  significant other weekends together.
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  And they also run Swinky Life, which is a website and
• 10:35
  educational platform. So they teach workshops.
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  They also run all of the education at Naughty Nolan's,
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  all the presenters and workshops there.
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  So they're really into the educational side and they're
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  very good at it. Their workshops are very
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  popular. I ended up teaming up with them
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  for this event because I wanted to do something that did bridge
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  the gap and that's exactly what they do.
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  They live in this world and so they did a phenomenal job last
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  December at our first one hosting the event.
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  I'm excited to see them do this again.
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  I. Wish I had heard about this in
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  time because it sounds so interesting.
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  Although admittedly I am not a swinger, but I think everyone
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  knows I go to sex parties, I go to like swingers parties.
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  It's like, it's a lot of fun. I've had very good friends.
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  I've had episodes with like people I've met at these
• 11:14
  parties, like we just developed such a friendship.
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  They have interesting stories, but I even noticed that it's not
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  so easy to find the parties that bridge the gap.
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  Well, right, because a lot of people are into both.
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  It would be remiss to me not to mention, though, for people who
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  want to explore both, there are a lot of similarities.
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  There's a lot of overlap on the type of person who would be
• 11:32
  interested in both, but there's also a lot of differences.
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  And I know we talked about this like how do you navigate those?
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  Differences, you have to be very mindful of it from the
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  beginning. And I think, you know, the
• 11:42
  Swinky Life people have a class called Bridging the Gap and they
• 11:45
  talk about the specifics of the differences.
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  But I think the big obvious one that we all know is that
• 11:51
  different kind of models or versions of consent practices in
• 11:55
  each community all exaggerate a little bit here.
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  But you know, the kinky lifestyle is going to be like,
• 12:00
  don't even come near me or touch me without consent.
• 12:03
  Don't touch any of my stuff without consent.
• 12:06
  And this, the swinger side is going to be more like I touched
• 12:09
  you already and let's play. And that automatically means
• 12:13
  anything but anal. I, I respect both, but I mean, I
• 12:16
  think I'm primarily A kinky person so I'm more on the don't
• 12:19
  touch me me without consent. But I mean, if somebody comes up
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  and gives me a hug, I'm not going to be upset about it
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  either. I don't even think that's
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  exaggerating. I feel like the swingers
• 12:27
  community is like dating in the early 2000s and then the king
• 12:31
  community is like dating now. Do you know what I mean?
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  Like in terms of where we are with consent and maybe that's
• 12:36
  about the age Speaking of would I be in the normal age range of
• 12:40
  yes, well at this. Yeah, At our event, I think the
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  sweet spot is probably 35 to 55. That's where the majority are
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  going to fall in. We do see how buyers for sure.
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  There's going to be some people in their 20s and early 30s and
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  there are going to be older people too.
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  We've had people in their 70s come to our events and there are
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  so much fun. They end up being like very
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  popular in the group. I have talked about this before.
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  The people who come in early in their lives, like they
• 13:05
  understand this is a lifestyle they want to live in their 20s.
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  I love to see that because that wasn't me as much as I was like
• 13:11
  a dominatrix at 25, geez, at 24, OK, maybe I was in it, you know,
• 13:15
  early. But it wasn't something I ever
• 13:16
  felt like, oh, this is for me. I did it as a job and I enjoyed
• 13:20
  doing it, but I didn't take ownership of it in my life until
• 13:22
  like maybe my later 20s. And then people who you meet are
• 13:26
  like, I've always wanted to do this.
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  And, you know, on my 60th, I decided to do it for my birthday
• 13:30
  or I guess even said right. And then they finally like live
• 13:33
  authentically and explore the things they've always wanted to
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  explore. Like I always calibrate that
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  because I'm like it's never too early or too late.
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  Agreed, I wish I had started earlier than I did.
• 13:42
  I didn't really get into it until my probably mid 30s or
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  early, early to mid 30s. And I knew that I was kinky when
• 13:48
  I was probably in my teens. I'm a little older, I'm in my
• 13:51
  early 50s. So I think when I was in
• 13:54
  college, for example, there was like the Internet was brand new.
• 13:57
  There was no kink community on the Internet.
• 13:59
  When I was in undergrad. The only way you could find out
• 14:02
  about the kink event was to go to the sex shop on campus and
• 14:06
  look at the bulletin board and that then you would see like
• 14:08
  leather event or something. But that was scary because my
• 14:11
  only view of what that was was from movies and TV, and it
• 14:15
  wasn't portrayed in an authentic way.
• 14:17
  I would argue that's still the case, but because we have the
• 14:20
  Internet, we have more access to what it actually is.
• 14:23
  But if you just look at media, it's always this, like, high
• 14:26
  end, intense leather scene situation and not how it
• 14:30
  actually looks when you show up. And I know the movies do that,
• 14:33
  but there's just no real representation.
• 14:35
  I do want to talk about your own experience with it.
• 14:38
  So like, yes, you discovered as a teenager, I should do a whole
• 14:40
  episode where I just talk about people who, like, explored kink
• 14:43
  before or like their experience before the Internet came along
• 14:46
  because, like, that's a whole other.
• 14:47
  Yeah, but for you, I talk about kink versus fetish, A kink being
• 14:50
  a nice to have, a fetish being something you need.
• 14:52
  And a fetish doesn't need to be like feet we're stanking, which
• 14:55
  is mine. It can be power exchange, which
• 14:58
  actually might be more mine too. You know, like I need to imagine
• 15:01
  or be taking part in power exchange to finish.
• 15:03
  Do you if you don't mind answering?
• 15:05
  Like would you say you fall on that need side or the nice to
• 15:08
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  person. Whichever you choose, cruise or
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  No 100% need for I'm a power exchange is my overriding.
• 15:42
  Well actually, but I'll say it this way.
• 15:45
  Intimacy is my overriding kink or fetish, but power exchange is
• 15:50
  the way I get there. That's the vehicle to get you
• 15:53
  there, correct? You are not feeling like it's
• 15:55
  intimacy unless there is power exchange and that vulnerability
• 15:59
  that goes along with it. Yes.
• 16:01
  Exactly. Yeah, I know that's like a major
• 16:03
  turn on. Totally get it.
• 16:04
  OK. And like, if you're open to it,
• 16:06
  I'd love to share more about what is your relationship
• 16:09
  dynamic right now? Absolutely.
• 16:11
  Yeah, I am in a long term 24/7 power change dynamic with my
• 16:16
  wife. We've been together for teen
• 16:19
  years, give 12 years, give or take, and we were always in ADS
• 16:25
  dynamic casually. And then we started talking
• 16:28
  about doing a 24/7 dynamic and that took some time.
• 16:31
  She's a feminist and she struggled with reconciling that.
• 16:34
  And then eventually she realized that as a feminist, she has the
• 16:38
  right to choose to be in that dynamic if that's what she
• 16:41
  wants. And that is totally aligned with
• 16:42
  feminism. So that took a while to
• 16:44
  reconcile for her. And when she had that
• 16:45
  realization or accepted that or believed that, it was not hard
• 16:49
  for her to make that jump. And so, but we're also
• 16:52
  polyamorous. We swing sometimes, but we're
• 16:55
  definitely lifestyle kinks in a power strange dynamic.
• 16:57
  And we like to play that way. We like to play, you know,
• 17:00
  impact and bondage. And I'm also a rope guy, like to
• 17:03
  do that kind of stuff. She likes that too.
• 17:04
  But yes, when it comes to sex for me, there has to be some
• 17:09
  kink involved. I'm not very good with just
• 17:12
  vanilla sex. It's not what I want.
• 17:14
  So when you are looking for partners to swing with or even
• 17:17
  if you're, I think you just said polyamorous, right?
• 17:20
  Yeah. So I have other partners.
• 17:22
  As well, that sounds hard to juggle.
• 17:23
  Yeah, I have currently two other partners.
• 17:26
  They are long distance. So that helps in the juggling
• 17:28
  aspect because I'm juggling my primary dynamic.
• 17:31
  I have kids, I have two jobs basically.
• 17:34
  Yeah. So it's a lot to juggle for my
• 17:37
  long distance partners. We are generally really in power
• 17:40
  exchange when we're together, we might have a like an informal
• 17:44
  power exchange with a few things, but I don't have I, I
• 17:47
  call like domains of authority so that they're what you would
• 17:49
  negotiate like in a power exchange 24/7 dynamic, for
• 17:52
  example. So it's important, I think to
• 17:55
  negotiate things like, well, it's 24/7 total power exchange,
• 17:58
  but is that for everything? Does the top have the right to
• 18:01
  choose medical or make medical care decisions?
• 18:03
  Financial decisions? Can they family and friend type
• 18:07
  decisions? You know about their connections
• 18:09
  to other people? Do we draw lines and where do we
• 18:11
  draw them when it's long distance?
• 18:13
  I tend to pretty much drop all most of those domains of
• 18:17
  authority except for maybe a few limited things.
• 18:20
  On occasion. If a partner's trying to lose
• 18:22
  weight, for example, I might help them with that or certain
• 18:26
  very specific things. And then other than that, it's a
• 18:29
  usually more of a very informal DS dynamic where I can be like,
• 18:32
  go do this and they're going to do it.
• 18:34
  But we don't have like a negotiated agreed.
• 18:37
  There's not going to be a consequence really.
• 18:38
  I can't really punish them if they don't.
• 18:41
  Yeah, in that situation, unless they choose, they can be like,
• 18:43
  well, I'd like to punish you. And they'd be like, OK, I
• 18:44
  deserve it. I'm going to take the
• 18:45
  punishment. But it's not an ongoing agreed
• 18:48
  dynamic. That makes sense.
• 18:50
  It's so customizable, it's like what everyone agrees to
• 18:52
  together. Can I ask about when your
• 18:55
  marriage changed from like DS into Total Power Exchange?
• 18:59
  What did those changes look like?
• 19:01
  You know, honestly, it wasn't a big change because we were
• 19:04
  already doing it and that's what I told her I was like, you know,
• 19:07
  we're pretty much already doing it because if I were you to do
• 19:10
  something or ask you to do something, you do it, she does
• 19:13
  it. She we already were doing it and
• 19:15
  operating that way. So all we did was take the time
• 19:18
  to carefully negotiate and draft an agreement, a power exchange
• 19:22
  like protocol document. We added a few kind of formal
• 19:26
  protocols, but really it's didn't feel that much different.
• 19:30
  It was hotter though. Yeah, I bet it was.
• 19:33
  But it's not like you changed into a high protocol dynamic
• 19:37
  versus what you were in before. I love high protocol in theory,
• 19:41
  but in practice I find it to be almost impossible in my world
• 19:44
  because I'm too busy. We're both too busy.
• 19:47
  What we did was we created a high protocol mode and then we
• 19:51
  have sort of what we call a regular mode, and regular mode
• 19:53
  is everyday stuff. She's not wearing a color.
• 19:56
  She has very few protocols or a couple that we keep, but other
• 19:59
  than that, it's almost just like we're a normal husband and wife.
• 20:02
  But of course if I say do something, she's going to do it.
• 20:04
  And there's still rules. Like there are very specific
• 20:06
  things. But then like I might say this
• 20:08
  Friday night, 7:00 slave mode, she comes out dressed the way
• 20:13
  she's supposed to dress, wearing her collar, and she has to
• 20:15
  follow more of a high protocol rule like book or whatever.
• 20:18
  Like if even one person is working high protocol, 24/7 is a
• 20:22
  full time job right? It's crazy.
• 20:24
  Yeah, I don't actually know anyone.
• 20:26
  And that's probably because like, I don't know the whole
• 20:28
  world. I don't know anyone in a 24/7
• 20:30
  high protocol dynamic. We would pretty much have to be
• 20:33
  independently wealthy with no kids and very little actual
• 20:37
  responsibility to pull that off. I think.
• 20:39
  Yeah, do it right to do it well. I'm.
• 20:41
  Like, well, I don't have kids, but independently wealthy needs
• 20:44
  to snow like on the list because I can't even imagine fitting it
• 20:47
  in. But again, then I'm here doing a
• 20:49
  podcast and being a coach and doing all of these.
• 20:52
  I don't. I know you want kids because I
• 20:54
  heard you say about one of your episodes.
• 20:55
  Just before you decide to do that, make sure you talk to me
• 20:58
  about how much it affects your kink life, because it does.
• 21:02
  I think about all the time and then like, you know, we were
• 21:04
  talking about the age of people who come on the cruise.
• 21:06
  A lot of my clients, it's like I could bucket them or they don't
• 21:09
  even have to answer this question, but they're in their
• 21:11
  40s, their youngest just turned 5.
• 21:13
  This is and they're like we're trying to reconnect and it's oh,
• 21:16
  so you need your child to be 5 or above for that reconnection
• 21:20
  period. So I feel like.
• 21:21
  Yeah, we have a 5 and a three-year old and so I
• 21:24
  absolutely love them and I don't regret having them, but it is
• 21:28
  hard sometimes times to look back over the last five or six
• 21:30
  years and see how much it affected my kink life.
• 21:34
  Abso freaking lutely yes. Like if you talk about 24/7 high
• 21:37
  protocol, it's like take it keeping a child alive I'm sure.
• 21:41
  Oh my God, yes. Medical decisions, family
• 21:45
  decisions, friends decision. Yes, I feel like again, we could
• 21:48
  do a flywheel of all of the other episodes you and I could
• 21:51
  record together based on like, oh, kink, high protocol, your
• 21:55
  own dynamic. Because I know a lot of
• 21:57
  listeners and I asked this question to everyone who's in a
• 21:59
  relationship, want to know, how did you meet your kinky partner?
• 22:02
  Did you build it together? Did you meet in the scene?
• 22:06
  Like, how did you find each other and get to this stage
• 22:09
  where you were so open that you could really live this life?
• 22:11
  My 2 long distance partners were just what the typical.
• 22:15
  We met on vet life so that was easy.
• 22:17
  But my wife, I actually met in the vanilla world.
• 22:20
  We had both come recently, like in the past year, recently come
• 22:24
  out of long term relationships. Steve came to a show that I was
• 22:27
  doing. I'm an amateur musician.
• 22:29
  So she came to a show, saw me play and her friend was in the
• 22:33
  band and they introduced me. I think they're trying to set us
• 22:36
  up. I just, I met her.
• 22:38
  I sensed that he was submissive. I don't want to act like I know
• 22:41
  I have some sort of like kinky radar or something because I I
• 22:44
  could have just sensed the rhyme, but I think, I mean, it
• 22:46
  was true. And so I was just and at that
• 22:48
  point I knew that I absolutely would not date anybody if they
• 22:51
  were not a submissive person. And yinda kink, I had already
• 22:54
  made that decision or come to that realization.
• 22:56
  And so, you know, I think her friend was trying to set us up
• 22:59
  and I was like, well, she has to be kinky, but this is a vanilla
• 23:02
  context and I can't even ask the friend if she is, and she
• 23:05
  probably wouldn't even know. Yeah.
• 23:07
  But I kind of sensed it and I was very right.
• 23:09
  She was just completely new to. She had done very little in
• 23:13
  terms of exploring at that point.
• 23:14
  And so it just worked. It worked very well from the
• 23:17
  beginning. I always think content saying
• 23:20
  like you can't just assume someone's kinky in a certain way
• 23:23
  because XYZ like but what were your indicators that made you
• 23:27
  think that she was possibly submissive?
• 23:30
  Her mannerisms and the way I think the way she talked
• 23:34
  interacted from the very beginning, she just kind of had
• 23:37
  you just kind of get that feeling.
• 23:38
  She had that kind of very typical submissive guy anxious.
• 23:42
  It was, she didn't look me in the eye right away.
• 23:45
  She was very like easy to talk to and it was it was more of
• 23:48
  just an overall vibe. But it's hard for me to point
• 23:50
  out the specific things. But it was vibing for you too.
• 23:53
  It was. You were I was just like, I'm
• 23:55
  going to explore this. I'm going to go on a date.
• 23:57
  I mean, I ended up kind of figuring out a way to like she
• 23:59
  came to the thing like another party that we had and then I
• 24:02
  asked her out and she said yes. And then after a few, I think we
• 24:06
  waited to the third obligatory date to actually like get into
• 24:10
  net. I just gently like held her
• 24:12
  hands and then put them overhead.
• 24:14
  I didn't force or anything obviously, but I just kind of
• 24:16
  did that to see how she and she like was all for it.
• 24:20
  She was like do that. And so like I was just put her
• 24:23
  hands over her head basically and I was holding her hands and
• 24:26
  if she wanted out, obviously I would have let her out in 2
• 24:29
  seconds by zero seconds. But she didn't and I was like
• 24:32
  OK, that's a good side right there.
• 24:34
  She wants to be held down. I thought they were hidden but
• 24:37
  there were chains on them. Oh my gosh.
• 24:39
  I thought they were hidden, but they weren't hidden well enough.
• 24:41
  And she she had noticed them and that intrigued her.
• 24:44
  And so after a couple more times together, I asked her.
• 24:48
  She wanted me to head up and she said I thought you'd never ask.
• 24:50
  Oh my gosh, I love that. OK.
• 24:53
  Funny thing from there though is that I had been to a bunch of
• 24:57
  rope bondage shibari workshops at the time.
• 24:59
  I've been to a lot more since then, but I knew some basic like
• 25:02
  rope patterns and stuff. They call like he she like the
• 25:04
  diamond pattern and stuff. When I asked her that question
• 25:07
  and she kind of envisioned like a 50 Shades, kind of like, I'm
• 25:10
  going to get up, tie and like just tie your hands up or
• 25:13
  something. And I got out rope and I started
• 25:16
  doing this intricate rope pattern on her and she was
• 25:18
  absolutely shocked. She had never seen that before.
• 25:21
  And she's like, how did you learn how to do this?
• 25:23
  And I set up into some workshops and she's like, there's classes
• 25:25
  for this. Oh my gosh, a lot of people
• 25:29
  don't know that though. Yes, I know.
• 25:31
  It's like they don't realize how normalized it is that like we
• 25:34
  are out and about and like teaching each other our craft.
• 25:37
  Oh my God, I love that. What a great story.
• 25:40
  I mean, I always want to point out that that's basically like
• 25:42
  winning the Lotto, meeting someone in the wild.
• 25:44
  And it's not impossible, you know.
• 25:48
  I feel like I won the Lotto. It's also rare because you guys
• 25:51
  didn't even really talk about it beforehand.
• 25:54
  It just sort of really came out. I think now if you get on, there
• 25:57
  are apps, dating apps like Field or BD app where there are a lot
• 26:01
  of kinky dating apps where you can talk about it more openly.
• 26:03
  So we do have slightly more opportunity to talk about it
• 26:06
  than maybe. None of that stuff was around,
• 26:08
  felt like I don't even think was around yet or it was brand new.
• 26:11
  And I should probably point out that I was also brand new to
• 26:14
  kink at the time and my consent practices today would look very
• 26:17
  different. So I think if that's important
• 26:19
  to know that we all learn and grow from a consent and
• 26:21
  negotiation perspective as well. And I had never been to a
• 26:24
  consent class at that point. No, I didn't have a mentor.
• 26:27
  I was brand new myself. I've been to a few workshops so.
• 26:30
  Oh I again, Lee, another entire episode on how we've grown.
• 26:35
  It's understanding consent. Yes, working in a dungeon as a
• 26:38
  dominatrix, we had safe words. But like, I definitely had a
• 26:42
  safe word. But it was a different world,
• 26:43
  too. Yeah.
• 26:44
  You know, And that was only, I guess, 12 or 13 years ago now,
• 26:48
  but we've come a long way even in that time with consent.
• 26:51
  And just, it's sort of like the difference between swingers and
• 26:54
  people in the king community. The king community became very
• 26:56
  consent forward, rightfully so. And now it's at the forefront of
• 26:59
  every conversation where I don't think it was in the same way
• 27:02
  even 15 years ago. 100% When I started in the King community,
• 27:07
  which was about the time that I met her, it was just maybe six
• 27:10
  months before or a year. There were very few workshops on
• 27:14
  consent. People did not talk about it.
• 27:16
  That really became popular a few years later when there was a lot
• 27:19
  of kind of cancel culture going on, and then it became a really
• 27:22
  hot topic and people started teaching consent workshops and
• 27:26
  it became a big thing. That all actually does line up.
• 27:29
  Basically the Me Too movement and cancel culture around things
• 27:33
  made people realize, OK, we need to be very clear on what someone
• 27:35
  wants when it comes to meeting people on the cruise.
• 27:38
  Is this going to be a good place for people to meet?
• 27:40
  Is it all couples showing up who's on the cruise?
• 27:43
  What's I guess the dynamic of the people who come on the
• 27:45
  cruise? Yes.
• 27:46
  I'm so excited for this by the way, cruise.
• 27:49
  I've been wanting to do something like this for like 5
• 27:51
  years. And it's not like you can just
• 27:53
  call a cruise ship and be like, I want to do this if you need
• 27:56
  millions of dollars and just like charter or cruise and then
• 27:59
  make it clipping optional or sex positive, none of that.
• 28:01
  So I finally had the opportunity to work with the Bliss cruise.
• 28:05
  And if you're not familiar with that, it's the biggest and best
• 28:08
  kind of lifestyle cruise company out there.
• 28:10
  They charter, they've been in business for about 10 years.
• 28:13
  They've chartered I think 20 ish or over 20 ships at this point.
• 28:17
  And we're talking the big ones like the mid size, the big Royal
• 28:20
  Caribbean and Celebrity brand, which are also, in my opinion,
• 28:23
  the best cruise ships out there. Generally speaking, they're the
• 28:26
  best brand and they, they do a great job.
• 28:28
  Everything's great on those ships.
• 28:29
  So they do three ships a year right now.
• 28:32
  Sometimes one of them is one of those Oasis class ships, which
• 28:36
  are like 6000 people. The other ones are on like
• 28:38
  Celebrity Solstice class, which are about 3000 people.
• 28:41
  So they're doing 9 to 12,000 people a year on these ships.
• 28:47
  It's incredible. And these are lifestyle.
• 28:49
  They're completely chartered. So they have clothing optional
• 28:53
  areas like usually the upper decks, the outside decks are
• 28:56
  clothing optional and they have sex positive areas as well.
• 28:58
  They bring in like all these mattresses.
• 29:00
  They have big playrooms over 120 beds I think they have on the
• 29:04
  ships. So they have playrooms where
• 29:06
  that are sex positive and they have a sex positive dungeon as
• 29:09
  well. And then they pack just like we
• 29:11
  do at our events. They pack the ship with
• 29:13
  programming. So there's seminars and parties
• 29:16
  and all kinds of different fun events and stuff.
• 29:18
  So to circle back to your question, what we're doing is
• 29:22
  basically kind of what we do at Hedonism, which is taking a
• 29:26
  kinky niche group on the ship or at the resort and putting on
• 29:32
  having add on programming and events right for our group and
• 29:36
  we're creating ways for people to connect.
• 29:38
  That's a big part of what we do. For example, if you come by
• 29:41
  yourself and you're on a 3000 person ship, how do you meet
• 29:44
  people? That's really hard to do and you
• 29:46
  might see them on day one and never see them again because.
• 29:49
  Rest of it in a small town or big.
• 29:51
  Yeah, exactly. And So what we do is, you know,
• 29:54
  from the beginning, before the event, we have, you know, like a
• 29:57
  Discord chat. And so everybody's getting into
• 29:59
  each other. We do like a video call where
• 30:00
  people can introduce themselves. And then once we get there,
• 30:04
  we're in our own little world. We have our own group, we have
• 30:07
  our own kind of workshops and programming and events.
• 30:10
  Then you know, we're all trying to eat together in the same
• 30:13
  little area. Even at Hedism, we tend to have
• 30:15
  our own area of the restroom, like the main dining area.
• 30:18
  So we all join each other. And then also every we make
• 30:21
  these like really nice handmade necklaces with and it's because
• 30:25
  if you're naked, you can't wear a name tag very easily.
• 30:27
  Like you're not going to. Well, some people might be
• 30:29
  independent themselves with a name.
• 30:30
  Tag do it. I'm not.
• 30:35
  One, I'm not one of the beater, so I you know, everybody can put
• 30:38
  their either scene name or their real name, whatever they prefer.
• 30:40
  We make their, we have these really unique, distinctive, nice
• 30:44
  looking name necklaces that are handmade.
• 30:46
  And so everybody wears a name necklace and you can easily
• 30:48
  identify somebody in the group from their necklace.
• 30:50
  And so it's like, hey, come sit with us or can I join you kind
• 30:53
  of thing at all the meals and things like that.
• 30:55
  So we all basically spend the week together and it's really
• 30:58
  easy to get to know each other. And then we also do things like
• 31:00
  kinky speed dating and we have Ice Breakers.
• 31:02
  I think we I think we're going to do it again on the Cruise
• 31:04
  Kinky Bingo. We had these great presenters
• 31:07
  from Los Angeles that ran that for us and it was so much fun.
• 31:10
  So we're going to probably keep that going as well.
• 31:13
  This sounds like literally my dream to just be on a big kinky
• 31:17
  vacation. It's almost like one of my
• 31:19
  favorite books is Exit to Eden which is like.
• 31:22
  There was a movie with Rosie O'Donnell, isn't it?
• 31:25
  I haven't seen the movie because I'm so like the oh God
• 31:27
  different, but it's so different from the book.
• 31:29
  I think I need to. I can't see the movie but like
• 31:32
  the I. Can't find it.
• 31:33
  I tried to find it, it doesn't seem to be available anywhere
• 31:35
  anymore, so if you find it let me know.
• 31:37
  I will. I looked up recently because
• 31:39
  you're not I'm there might even be another episode where someone
• 31:42
  else tells me to go watch it and I'm like, OK, I'll go watch it.
• 31:45
  So I think I did read up recently.
• 31:46
  You're probably I mean, I watch it like pre lifestyle, like
• 31:50
  before I was actually in the lifestyle.
• 31:51
  So I don't know if I remember, but I remember liking it.
• 31:54
  It it's probably going to have sort of a 50 Shades kind of
• 31:57
  response, like, hey, that's not real.
• 31:59
  And no, it's definitely not real.
• 32:00
  But it was still real actors that, you know, in mainstream
• 32:04
  kink, you know, and the whole movie was based on kink, like a
• 32:07
  kink island. So it was pretty funny.
• 32:09
  Yeah. So like, this is sort of like a
• 32:10
  kink vacation. Like as you're describing it,
• 32:12
  I'm like, Oh my gosh. And there's just, it sounds like
• 32:15
  there are so many fun events. And I'm excited it exists
• 32:18
  because I think that like anywhere that our community can
• 32:21
  come together in different ways. And like, it's just as kink
• 32:25
  grows and becomes more well known, I think we have more
• 32:27
  people getting on fat life, more people talking about kink.
• 32:30
  I know that there are a lot more people who are open to talking
• 32:32
  about how they went to a kinky convention then maybe even five
• 32:35
  years ago with their friends. Yes.
• 32:36
  So I'm excited for the crews and just meeting more Kingsters who
• 32:41
  love the lifestyle so much that they're willing to build a
• 32:43
  vacation around it. I don't want to go on vanilla
• 32:46
  vacations anymore. This is the problem and that the
• 32:49
  beauty is we don't have to. OK, so number one, we don't have
• 32:52
  to, but this is all that. Like once you do start, you're
• 32:54
  like, wait, these are my people. And it's addictive in the best
• 32:57
  way to be surrounded. I have to wear clothes.
• 33:01
  I'm a clothes wearer, but I'm also like a nudist at heart too.
• 33:04
  I'm definitely a nudist. I hate wearing clothes.
• 33:06
  So something I do want to address because you do have a
• 33:09
  workaround for this. The way the cruise is set up, it
• 33:12
  needs to be one man, one woman to every room.
• 33:15
  But there can be a third person, and that could be another man or
• 33:17
  another woman. Yeah, you can have up to four
• 33:19
  people in some room. Like the cruise ships have some
• 33:22
  rooms that are two people, some rooms that are designated for
• 33:24
  three or four people because they have extra beds or
• 33:26
  whatever. So, you know, cruise ship rooms
• 33:29
  are very small, so you have to be pretty comfortable with the
• 33:31
  people you're sharing a cabin with if there's going to be 3 or
• 33:34
  4 people in a room, but you know, it's going to be cozy.
• 33:37
  Yes. And this is something that I
• 33:39
  wish was different. And it's one of the big
• 33:41
  differences between kind of the swinger world and the cake
• 33:44
  world, which is there are still a lot of heteronormative
• 33:46
  policies in the swinger world. And it's changing.
• 33:49
  It's changing very quickly right now, and I see it changing soon.
• 33:53
  But the reality though is the cruise ship rules are not based
• 33:57
  as much on those kind of older swinger policies as they they
• 34:01
  are on the economics of a cruise ship, which means you need more
• 34:04
  bodies on the ship because the cruise ship economic models
• 34:08
  based on people spending money on the ship.
• 34:10
  And so they don't, what they really don't want is people to
• 34:13
  book single cabins. They won't allow that.
• 34:16
  So you have to have two people in our room.
• 34:18
  If you're a single person wanting to go, we welcome it.
• 34:21
  You just have to have a roommate or two or three roommates.
• 34:24
  But you've set it up to help people find it through Fetlife
• 34:28
  that. We're trying yes, yeah, yeah, we
• 34:30
  do have a couple ways to do that.
• 34:32
  We have a on that like we have a group, it's the conocations
• 34:36
  group so you can fight it through our profile too, which
• 34:38
  is Conocations and there's a seeking thread on our group so
• 34:42
  you can put people posts there saying hey, I want to go out to
• 34:44
  this event, but I'd like a roommate or whatever.
• 34:47
  We also welcome people to just e-mail us on our support.
• 34:51
  We have like WhatsApp, we have text messages like contact us,
• 34:54
  let us know that you're seeking a roommate and what you're kind
• 34:57
  of looking for. And we keep a list.
• 34:59
  And if we see a potential match, we message both people and say
• 35:02
  here's a little bit about this person.
• 35:04
  Do you want, are you OK with like sharing your information
• 35:06
  and connecting you both? And if they both say yes, then
• 35:09
  we connect them. Amazing.
• 35:10
  And what I want to call out is like normally when I go to
• 35:13
  parties, I have friends that I go with like if I'm room
• 35:16
  sharing, I room share with one of them.
• 35:17
  But like there are quick things. I just want to throw in some
• 35:19
  tips. If you are deciding to room with
• 35:21
  someone, talk about how you would handle someone else coming
• 35:24
  back to the room. Talk about.
• 35:25
  Like. How how many clothes you're
• 35:27
  bringing and how you like to set that up because there might not
• 35:30
  be enough hangar space for both people.
• 35:33
  Having conversations in advance can set you up for success in
• 35:36
  having a good roommate situation, and if you find a
• 35:38
  good roommate, that person can become your roommate for every
• 35:41
  party. And lifelong friends too.
• 35:43
  But I will point out that on at all of our events there that
• 35:47
  hedonism in pretty much the entire resort and on this ship,
• 35:51
  our dungeon and certain areas of the resort are sex positive and
• 35:54
  there's play rooms and there's lots of places to have sex and
• 35:57
  play not you don't have to come back to your room.
• 36:01
  So keep that in mind too. Like the room is not necessarily
• 36:03
  going to be where you're doing that anyway.
• 36:05
  So that helps a lot. That is a really great point to
• 36:08
  make. OK, so if you want to be kinky
• 36:10
  next to a pool on the beach, is that correct?
• 36:13
  You guys even have like a beach? Oh God, yeah.
• 36:16
  Well, we obviously do that at HITO all week, but I'm really
• 36:19
  excited about this beach party. So the Bliss Cruise loves to
• 36:23
  have beach party excursions, but they have a it's a struggle.
• 36:26
  You'd be surprised. In the Caribbean, it's really
• 36:29
  hard to find places that will allow nudity even if you do a
• 36:32
  takeover on a beach and sex positive is it's never they've
• 36:36
  never done that before, been able to find a place that
• 36:38
  allowed it. But because we regularly work in
• 36:41
  Jamaica, we were able to find a place that is allowing us to
• 36:44
  have a sex positive event on a private beach.
• 36:47
  And so that'll be open to the entire ship.
• 36:49
  But the Kinky Cruise people get it for free.
• 36:52
  And so we're going to have buses you get off the ship in Jamaica,
• 36:55
  it's about 10 minutes away, give or take.
• 36:58
  And we have this whole beach location just to ourselves and
• 37:02
  we have all of our dungeon equipment from Kinky Caribbean
• 37:04
  and Swingcation in Jamaica. So we're going to set up a whole
• 37:07
  dungeon on the beach and there'll be another tent that
• 37:10
  has beds for, you know, the typical lifestyle play, like
• 37:14
  more vanilla play or sex. There's going to be reggae bands
• 37:17
  and food and alcohols included. And for people that want to pay
• 37:19
  a little extra you there's a coral reef marine park there,
• 37:22
  like a protected coral reef. And you can go snorkeling or
• 37:24
  kayaking or, you know, paddle boarding that kind of stuff as
• 37:27
  well. So that's going to be a whole
• 37:29
  day up until about sunset, which is also going to be spectacular
• 37:32
  because the sunsets right over the water at this.
• 37:35
  Beach OK I don't want to be dense here but when you say sex
• 37:38
  positive, does that mean that I can live out my dream of having
• 37:41
  sex on a beach? While drinking a sex on a beach.
• 37:44
  Well, drinking a Sex on the beach I love.
• 37:45
  It we allow these sex positive play spaces on the ship are 100%
• 37:51
  sex positive, you can have all the kinds of sex.
• 37:54
  Yes, OK, I wanted to be sure because like I'm a rule
• 37:57
  follower. I have not had sex on a beach
• 37:59
  because I'm like it's illegal, you can't do it anywhere or I
• 38:02
  wouldn't be allowed. But now this is like a way to
• 38:05
  take another one off the bucket list item in a Safeway.
• 38:09
  I'm a big rule follower, believe it or not, so.
• 38:12
  I believe that. Yeah, well, some people think I
• 38:14
  wouldn't be because of like how open I am about a lot of things.
• 38:16
  So I'm like, I'm open, but I'm rigid on like how I explore
• 38:19
  things. So that's super exciting as well
• 38:21
  because you would think most cruises offer something like
• 38:24
  this, but they don't like most cruises like this wood off or
• 38:27
  something like this, but this is rare.
• 38:28
  They don't. Yeah, this is rare.
• 38:30
  I think this, from what I understand, this will be the
• 38:32
  first time they've done a sex positive event on a beach.
• 38:34
  So that's going to be big and we're really excited about that.
• 38:38
  So yeah, you're talking about connecting.
• 38:39
  Another thing we're going to do is, you know how if you've been
• 38:43
  on a cruise before, like you're not supposed to travel the day,
• 38:45
  your cruise was supposed to come the night before.
• 38:47
  Yes. So we got a hotel near the port.
• 38:50
  So all of our group, we're going to have like a rooftop pool
• 38:53
  party and a meet and before we even get on the ship as well.
• 38:56
  So and we organize all the transportation as well.
• 38:59
  So all the kinky cruise people can fly in to Fort Lauderdale
• 39:02
  where the cruise leaves from. And then they'll get picked up
• 39:04
  and taken to the hotel, and then we'll have a pool party and then
• 39:08
  in the morning they'll get taken to the cruise ship.
• 39:10
  So like there's like a lot of chance to connect on that really
• 39:13
  intimate level. So before you even get on this
• 39:15
  huge cruise ship, you have time to connect with.
• 39:17
  People and it's just us in a small area, it'll just be the
• 39:20
  kinky people, not like on this huge cruise ship before it even
• 39:23
  starts. So everybody already know we
• 39:24
  each other or most of the people.
• 39:26
  Not everyone will be at that party, obviously, but.
• 39:28
  But this is a really good chance to like, OK, because that's
• 39:30
  like, that's the other piece. It's like the stepping stones to
• 39:33
  being willing to do this. And I know just from being in
• 39:35
  this world, talking to people, I know my experienced kingsters,
• 39:38
  especially my experienced couple kingsters, it's not a huge leap
• 39:42
  for them to go book a cruise and get on this.
• 39:44
  But what about the beginners, like a couple that I coach maybe
• 39:46
  who aren't just being introduced to it?
• 39:49
  Do you feel this is a good opportunity for them to immerse
• 39:52
  themselves in community? I mean, this is the best
• 39:55
  opportunity. I mean, and I know I'm biased,
• 39:58
  but I see this. We're doing 3 events now a year
• 40:00
  or so starting with the cruise next year.
• 40:03
  It is just every single time we see beginners come and they come
• 40:06
  out not feeling like beginners anymore.
• 40:09
  They are loving their life. They are mad at themselves for
• 40:12
  not doing this sooner, you know, and a lot of times the
• 40:15
  beginners, it's rare for it to be their very first event,
• 40:17
  although that has happened a handful of times, but they've
• 40:19
  gone to like a few local events. They're still kind of like we
• 40:23
  scared and. You know, like deer in
• 40:25
  headlights with the whole thing. They didn't really talk to a lot
• 40:27
  of people at their first event and, and all of that.
• 40:29
  So when they come to this event, you know, our events are small
• 40:33
  enough that pretty much everybody gets to know
• 40:34
  everybody. And so because it's immersive,
• 40:37
  you're in it and you're in it for a week, all day, every day,
• 40:40
  24/7. And you're among other beginners
• 40:43
  and you're among really advanced people and everything in
• 40:45
  between. And you also have the
• 40:46
  opportunity to go to endless workshops and just kind of be in
• 40:50
  the culture. So you're absorbing it like
• 40:52
  crazy. And so this is, in my opinion,
• 40:55
  if you know you are going to be in the lifestyle, you've already
• 40:58
  come to the realization that this is for you or you want to
• 41:01
  explore. You're like, I think this is
• 41:04
  something we want to explore. We're not sure about it.
• 41:05
  This is an amazing way to do it. And one of the great things is,
• 41:08
  is that they're at resorts or on cruise ships.
• 41:10
  So if it turns out it's not for you, that's fine.
• 41:13
  You can go do a million other things that you can go scuba
• 41:16
  diving, you can go to the other pool.
• 41:18
  You don't have to go to the kinky stuff.
• 41:19
  If you like, get there and you're like, this isn't for you.
• 41:21
  Oh my God. That's never happened though.
• 41:23
  No, never. Sure, it hasn't everything out
• 41:25
  there. The other thing, like I know a
• 41:27
  lot of people contact me, especially through social media
• 41:30
  to say like, I don't want to go to a local event in case I run
• 41:32
  into someone I know. Oh.
• 41:34
  Yeah, but they're there too. They they're there, right?
• 41:36
  But like, this could be for you because, you know, if someone's
• 41:39
  showing up to a cruise, they're serious about this lifestyle and
• 41:42
  they're probably going to be as discreet as you are, correct?
• 41:44
  Yeah. Exactly, which I know is a huge
• 41:46
  fear, but like, I would recommend this.
• 41:48
  This is stuff that I wish existed, especially when I was
• 41:51
  just a little earlier in. It's so fun but now I get to
• 41:55
  enjoy it now and I'm so glad you guys have created it.
• 41:57
  So if they use your code at kinkycruise.com, every person on
• 42:03
  their in their room will get $50 off.
• 42:05
  So this could be a $200 off the room code if it's a four person
• 42:08
  room. And if they use your code to go
• 42:10
  to Kinky Caribbean, which is in March at Hedonism Resort in
• 42:13
  Jamaica, each person on the in the room will get $75 off their
• 42:19
  room. So that that's a little bit
• 42:20
  higher value. But we're still using TKC 50.
• 42:23
  Same code for. Either.
• 42:24
  Event. Or both events, yeah.
• 42:26
  Cool. Oh, I'd love this listeners.
• 42:28
  I love that I'm able to extend this to you because I think that
• 42:31
  these are the events that are where you meet your community,
• 42:34
  where you make your lifelong friends and have an amazing
• 42:36
  vacation. So I highly suggest you go check
• 42:39
  it out. Head to kinkycruise.com to use
• 42:41
  that code TKC 50 for $50 off for each person in a room.
• 42:46
  This opportunity. These are so new for people.
• 42:49
  So I highly recommend you check this out because it's amazing to
• 42:52
  go meet your community and meet your lifelong friends.
• 42:55
  It's something that I started doing just two years ago, going
• 42:57
  to these national parties and conventions and it's changed how
• 43:00
  much I really get to enjoy my life, you know, both my vanilla
• 43:03
  and kinky life. So check it out SO.
• 43:05
  Kinky Caribbean and then one word, Kinky caribbean.com.
• 43:08
  Kinkycaribbean.com for hedonism. In March, early March, we have
• 43:13
  Kinky Caribbean, which is similar to Kinky Cruise, but
• 43:15
  it's at the resort instead of on the ship and it's more of a kink
• 43:18
  centric event, whereas Swinkation is more of a swinky
• 43:21
  event. So it's a combination of
• 43:23
  swingers and lifestyle kinksters and kinky Explorers and Swinky
• 43:28
  and everything in between. And it's a really fun event too.
• 43:31
  So we'll make sure you have a code for that one.
• 43:33
  We haven't even announced next year yet, so when that comes
• 43:36
  out, we'll make sure your listeners have a chance to get a
• 43:39
  discount for that one too. So kinky cruise or kinky
• 43:42
  Caribbean, check them out, explore, see what's right for
• 43:46
  you. Maybe you're not a cruise ship
• 43:47
  person, but there are options for our non good.
• 43:49
  Like if you don't want to be at sea, there are options for you
• 43:51
  as well. OK, awesome.
• 43:53
  Lee, thank you so much for coming here here today.
• 43:55
  I've had so much fun talking about your actual lifestyle that
• 43:58
  you lived, your relationship dynamic and in addition to all
• 44:01
  of this. So thanks for coming, sharing
• 44:02
  and just opening up. Me too.
• 44:04
  So appreciate it and. Thank you very much for this
• 44:07
  opportunity, this was really fun.
• 44:09
  I had so much fun and hopefully we will see each other soon.
• 44:11
  Definitely. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 44:16
  don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with
• 44:18
  anyone who might find it interesting.
• 44:20
  And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
• 44:23
  future episodes, feel free to reach out e-mail
• 44:26
  info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on kinking
• 44:30
  on.