Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 37. Dealing with Stress and Burnout as a BIPOC Leader with Nicole Caruth

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37. Dealing with Stress and Burnout as a BIPOC Leader with Nicole Caruth · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you stressed and burnt out?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're feeling exhausted, exhausted by giving so much to others, and it's hard for you to even understand how to give back to yourself.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: What if I told you that you can cope with your burnout by tweaking small habits?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And even though you can tweak small habits, there are even deeper problems when it comes to stress and burnout.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Specifically academic racism.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I just went there.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm delving deep with my client, Nicole Carous, a stress and burnout coach, to share with you how you can be free and liberated from stress and burnout.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's drop the beat.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hey legacy maker, I'm your host and MC, Elaine Lucartis, business and career coach for Women of Color and Allies.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And welcome to the Call Your Dreams podcast, where we have conscious conversations to help you create a business or career that is sustainable, abundant, and equitable to the lifestyle you deserve.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because our ancestors sacrificed so much so we can have this life of choice.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, grab your coffee, tea, andor boba, and let's call your dreams to create your legacy.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hey legacy makers! So I'm excited to bring in a client who is a stress and burnout coach, Nicole Carous.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we're probably feeling the stress and burnout because the holidays are just about to end.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we need all the help we can get, Nicole.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So let me do a quick little bio on Nicole.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Nicole is a black queer writer, certified health coach who specializes in helping creative change makers of color.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And before she started her own coaching practice, she spent two decades in the arts and culture sector as a curator, educator, editor, and administrator.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: And also had a side hustle in the fitness industry.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of things.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited to have you, Nicole.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Anything else you want to share that makes you amazing for our listeners to know about or fun fact.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, that I've been your client.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's something that makes me amazing or has has made me has helped me be a better business owner.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, would love to know how did you become a stress and burnout coach?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure it's because you've been stressed and burnt out and it led to this.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's kind of a long story.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: As you said, my bio, I have a background in the arts.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to school for art history and then curatorial studies, which is really like learning about making exhibitions.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole time I was doing that work, I was really interested in health and healing.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was on my own weight loss journey.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I come from a family where diabetes, alcoholism, congestive heart failure, these are all things that my elders are living with or passing away from.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's always helpful to hear that like someone else has had this experience.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've had a client before who was like, Oh, I read, I read your newsletter about your dad, and like my dad had the same experience.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what it did to my family and to me.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, it's good to share our stories.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I was really interested in health and healing.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was on my weight loss journey.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I became a personal trainer.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't plan to do anything with my certification.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted the knowledge, but I ended up working in gyms for a long time.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was a spin instructor.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I taught boot camp and New York City parks and corporations.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was a community chef, which was teaching people how to make healthy foods with what was available to them in their neighborhoods and within their budget.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing all of this, and I've always been looking for ways to bring all of this work and these interests together.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: They seem very different, but for me, they they intersected and overlapped.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I should start with my burnout story before I get to how I became a coach because I worked all of these jobs.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I worked these jobs not just because I wanted to and I was passionate about them, but I also had to to pay bills.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I burned out many times from doing too much, but also from feeling isolated, from not having the kind of support that I needed, from being under-resourced and parts of my life and working in nonprofits.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I know you know this, like working in non nonprofits are notorious for having employees that wear 20 hats and give their lives to their organizations.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I was ready to move away from that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember going to a therapy session, and I was talking about like I was traveling two to three weeks out of every month, and I was in a new relationship.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I had just moved in with my partner, and there was a lot happening.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I had this aha moment in therapy where it was like I was doing for everyone else except myself.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And my therapist was like, Where are you in all of this?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was ready to take action after I had that moment of clarity.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I signed up for the Institute for Integrative Nutrition to become a health coach.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not thinking that I was going to do anything with it, but really wanted to have the knowledge for myself and a better understanding, a holistic understanding of health.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I left my job.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I really loved coaching.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I left my job.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I started my coaching practice practice.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when I started my business, I of course our businesses kind of they tend to look like us, right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we tend to have clients, clients who are experiencing the same things that we're experiencing or working through.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I found and continue to see is the stress and burnout that my clients carry.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I primarily work with BIPOC folks.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, like you said, your therapist telling you you're doing for everyone else what you should be doing for you.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm assuming, only based off personal experience, that you see this for a lot of women of color or BIPOC communities.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Of how we just give so much.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And feel compelled to show up even when we don't have anything in, you know, our cups are empty, but we show up for our employers, we feel compelled to show up for our families.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say a large number of my clients are also, if they're not parents, they're caregivers.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're caring for a sick family member or somebody who's mentally ill in their family and needs and needs care.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there, and so it becomes really hard to center their own care.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, with your own journey, with your experience and your credentials, what are tips and advice you can give to folks when it comes to dealing with stress and burnout, or what you even call a freedom seeker and what that means?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take the first part of your question.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't have a, I don't really have general tips because I think the important thing to remember with burnout is that everyone has a different burnout profile.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody experiences burnout differently.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody experiences stress differently.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: It manifests in your body differently.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So one person might have gut health issues because there's a direct connection between stress and the gut or digestive issues, but someone else might not experience that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: They might experience a kind of they might experience headaches or brain fog.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I often think about the last time I was really burned out, I describe it as living in a fog.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I couldn't see my life.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Everything around me was just, I was doing and I was going, but I couldn't actually step back and see what was happening.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that being said, like everyone is different.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think there are general tips.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first step and the thing that I work on with my clients first is figuring out what are the root causes of stress and burnout.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I think it's really easy to read an article that says, you need to rest, you need to say no, you need to exercise, you need to eat well.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all of those things are good things, are good practices, right?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: They help us become more resilient in stressful situations.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the causes of burnout, so those, but those are those can be band-aids if you don't actually know what's burning you out.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Even before understanding the root, because sometimes we might think it's normal.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: What are symptoms of burnout?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're kind of give examples, but sometimes we think that's normal, like, oh, I'm just getting older or I'm on my period.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of gave the example of fogginess.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: It might be digestive issues.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Anything else people should be aware of?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, frequent headaches, cynicism, or feeling of detachment is a big one.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're feeling like you're abnormally cynical about things, that's a that's a key sign.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exhaustion, like your fatigue, no matter how much you sleep, you never feel like you're well rested.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've had that.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be a sign of of other issues, but that's a common sign of burnout.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are, I think those are the big ones.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Those, and those are the ones I see most with clients, especially the the exhaustion.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, it doesn't matter what I do, I can't seem to recover.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: I will relate to that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: I it was about when I started my business five years ago and I was like on it doing 50 calls a week, which is insane.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was preparing for an event, but there was a Saturday before my event where I couldn't wake up.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I already slept 12 hours, it was 10.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: My boyfriend tried waking me up because we had like his niece's dance competition to go to.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't go.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Why?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: What's wrong?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I literally can't wake up.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or I would move to the sofa and I would just sleep more.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I felt like I was a toddler, I could sleep anywhere.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And no matter how much I slept, like you said, I was never fully arrested.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you did you know you were burned out then?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had to just like stop my week, like in terms of like cancel meeting, reschedule meetings, like take the rest of the week off.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's sad, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: We wait until a point of when it hits the tipping point, and then we call someone like Nicole for help, you know what I'm saying?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And to help us find our root.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you were sharing the root.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: How do we figure that out?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or what do you usually do with your own clients?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we spend a lot of time just really talking through things and doing some kind of self-assessments and self-reflection.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you an example.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I had a client and we were talking about, I asked her to make a list of what she's ready to let go of in her life.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the same time, for each thing on her list to write what she had to gain by hanging on to that thing.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And after she finished writing the list, she said, you know, something came up for me that I never thought of before.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, I have this need to prove to people that I'm a badass.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I like, I take on all these things and I don't say no.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know where this comes from, but I need to prove to people that I can do a lot.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to let that go.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the transformation in her since she had that aha moment has been so beautiful.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we go through exercises to really get at like what is underneath everything that you're doing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I'll say about this particular client and other clients is that even if she had given herself permission to rest, she was working in an environment where she felt surveilled.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so she didn't feel, she didn't feel like she had permission to rest, even if she gave it to herself.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So also understanding, you know, what are your habits and that are within that are within your control to change?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then what are like systemic issues and systemic racism, systemic oppression that's causing you to operate the way you operate?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because often when I read articles about burnout, it's like you're burned out, it's your fault, you have bad habits, fix it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's often, especially for people of color, that is not the case.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all have habits that we can change, but we have systemic stressors that we have to deal with on top of everyday life stressors.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, my mind is blown.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: I loved how you said there are things and habits in our control, but being mindful of the systemic issues.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: I shared with you when we started even working together how I used to work as a grassroots organizer working in political campaigns.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: But there was this systemic issue where, like, I couldn't take a break.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I couldn't even take a full one-hour lunch.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or the thought of going out and the weekend and seeing friends.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And there was also this kind of like, what's the point of hanging out with friends?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I need to get the work done, like, I need to help with this bigger movement to make sure this elected official or this proposition gets passed.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And one of my other clients shared with me, like in the nonprofit world or the grassroots world, it's basically sneaky capitalism.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but aren't you doing this for your passion?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Aren't you doing this because you want to give back?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then you give back so much of yourself that you lose yourself and become stressed and burnt out.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have to call Nicole for help.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about this.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, if you really care about the kids, if you really care about artists, if you really care about this group, then you will sacrifice all these things in your personal life.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the that's that's the lie of nonprofit.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Not all nonprofits, but but yeah, I will say the last nonprofit I worked with, Past Paz City College Foundation, was an incredible nonprofit.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I had an incredible mentor.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: But what I heard from you is that importance of you helping your clients understand the habits that they could do tweaks on.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm assuming after they realize the habits they could do tweaks on, do you often see your clients realizing, I don't want to be in this job anymore or this industry?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which brings me back to freedom seekers, which is yeah, so often people are when they have a realization about like what is theirs to own and then what is not theirs to own.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes before they even get there, they're ready to leave their job.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that like leaving your job is not always the answer to burnout, especially if you know you have habits that you need to change, you'll just take them to another job.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you don't recognize the kind of environment that you're in, you'll probably end up in the same type of environment.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But for those people who are looking to get out of their jobs, I've developed this new program called Freedom Seekers.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really inspired by a theater practitioner who I heard talk who talked about how she wanted to make her job change thoughtfully and really be prepared for the transition.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so she started doing research on how the ancestors plan to flee plantations or follow the underground railroad.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I picked up on that and have been doing research.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the strategies, what are the stories that our ancestors use?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not just our ancestors who follow the underground railroad, but all of our ancestors have migrated for some reason or left because their lives were threatened, or they could have a better opportunity somewhere else.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really like bringing all of those stories together as a kind of framework for looking at how you plan your next job or career transition.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are the things that you you need to have in place?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it starts with visioning.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think about Harriet Tubman.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So she sustained this injury while she was enslaved because she was hit in the head with a weight, a metal weight.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened was she had spells or dreams for the rest of her life as a result of this injury.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it was in those visions that she imagined herself as a free woman flying.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really what motivated her to liberate others.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's really where the Freedom Seekers program starts.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's with what vision do you have for your life?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: What vision do you have for your work life?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do we work towards that together?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then we go through like another example is our ancestors needed outside help.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: They needed an outside network, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, who's in your network?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: How are you building those relationships?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: How are you nurturing those relationships?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Who are the abolitionists in your life who can help you, you know, achieve achieve your version of freedom?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Keep talking.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm I really love how it's just tied to your ancestry and generations before you.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm pretty sure you creating this program just as more fulfilling and heartfelt than other programs that you've had because of that tie and connection.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've definitely had other group programs that I haven't I've been excited about them, but I haven't, I haven't felt them as as deeply as I feel this one.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited about Freedom Seekers, which launches in January.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that is also like, you know, the health and wellness aspect.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you take care of yourself during periods of transition and uncertainty?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you feeding yourself?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: How are you managing your stress?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, looking for a job, and you can speak to this because your career in a business coach can be a stressful time, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is because you don't have anyone, or even if you look at the generations before us, which is baby boomers, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then they were sold into the idea from the generation before them that if you stay at a company for 50 years, right, you're gonna be safe and secure, you'll have the pension, the social security.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: We don't even have that guaranteed for our generation.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And with everything that is happening right now in society in this country, we actually do have permission to think about ourselves first.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I really do appreciate how you're assuring, you know, what habits can we tweak and make better for ourselves, but what can we acknowledge as a systemic issue?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And what can we do individually?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Not saying that you become a savior and you change the whole system, but there's small things you can do for yourself that other people will be inspired to do, not saying you have to be a coach yourself, but even when I changed my job or industry, what was it like a decade ago?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've had other friends and family members share with me that they were inspired.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Not saying they were clients, but you just are giving permission to people who look like you, grew up like you to know that it's possible for them too.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And freedom is going to look different for everyone, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think about like people who, black people who migrated from the South to the North during the Great Migration.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that they experienced like incredible freedom in the North.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was still segregation and there's still racism that they encountered, but it was a different kind of freedom than they had in the South, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So part of this process of freedom seekers is also like, what does freedom look like for you?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: It might not mean that you don't, you don't ever have to work again because that's just not realistic for a lot of us.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: But how can you be as free as possible and experience the joy that you want to experience in your job?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: I also want to share, I mean, we all go through challenges.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, systemic racism is still here, but it's also giving me this acknowledgement as we're having this conversation of how privileged we are of all everything that has happened before us, all the generations before us, to lead us to even have this choice to work with Nicole and to explore what does freedom look like?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: What is liberation look like for me?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: What how does an ideal life look like for me?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And starting to work on that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's such a beautiful privilege, but also honoring everyone before us.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you tie in the stories and ancestry behind it as well.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thanks.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited about it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, how can people find you and and learn more about the Freedom Seekers program?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can find me at Nicole Caruth.com, that's C-A-R-U-T-H.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to go straight to the Freedom Seekers page, it's backslash Freedom Seekers.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And similar to your legacy review, I do a 30-minute one-on-one coaching call.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a stress audit.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really to look at where you are on a on the stress spectrum.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking at stress on a straight line, the number one at one end and 10 at the other, use stress, which is good stress, which is the kind of stress that keeps us motivated, is at the one.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then burnout is at the 10.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So really talking about where you are on that spectrum and then starting to talk through what needs you might have and what your goals are and things like that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So how do they book a call for the stress audit?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nicole Caruth.com.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the button is all over my website.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Click on work with me at the very top of the page.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell I'm her coach?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, repeat that again, Nicole.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Drop your URL.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: www.nicolecaruth.com.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And Nicole, I know you've worked with me this year.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would love for you to share your experience working with me for anyone that might be interested in wanting to co-partner and create some beautiful magic in their business or career.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Elena's wonderful.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that I have been in masterminds.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know this, but for listeners, I had been in mastermind programs before this, where I felt like my specific perspective on the world, my lived experiences were dismissed and kind of overlooked and in favor of some universal idea of health.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And working with you was really fantastic because it was the first time I felt like, oh, I'm not crazy for thinking that, you know, I want to serve creatives or I'm not crazy for thinking that I want to serve BIPOC folks.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I really want to put that I want to speak to them in my business.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Working with you was validating.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got to the point where I felt like I was able to validate myself and but it was working with you that that got me to that place.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And to our fellow BIPOC community members, it's being seen and heard right I mean there's a reason why you have a BIPOC community going to you for advice when it comes to stress and burnout.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because our conversations look a lot different.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I need to go pick up my child but I have to finish this project and I still have to cook for my husband.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the concept for us in our community we weren't raised with parents or maybe you were but at least how I grew up where there was a nanny it was my grandma but my grandma could only walk to school so when it came to high school and we had to drive my grandma couldn't do that.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it was like a whole family village.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I was a latchkey kid.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there my if my sister wasn't taking care of me I was taking care of myself from from it from a young age.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I was gonna say that it's also you know one thing that I found is that it can be really hard to talk about what you're experiencing in the workplace if you're experiencing discrimination or you're consistently underrepresented and feel like you're not seen or you're invisible in your field.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: It can be hard to say that to somebody who doesn't understand that experience.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you talk about like the you know BIPOX communities coming to me for a reason, you know, often that's part of it is like you you understand my experience in the world.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if I say this to you, you won't ask me to explain it or tell me that it's not true because you know it to be true.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I remember even my personal experience where I would work I mean with former coaches like well who cares what your family says just do this.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And like I actually have to care about what my family says not saying I have to listen to them, but there is a more respectable way to give feedback.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: It could be like I I know that's what it seems like your family just wants the best for you and that was how they were raised that you need to go be a doctor and what if you express to your parents like how grateful you are they sacrificed so that you could have this choice to be an in and out burger flipper.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I joke around about that type of like example because I tell my clients like I know there's this sexiness of being a business owner but also if you want to be an in and out burger flipper because I want free meals from in and out and I'm from California.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you want to be a director at a at a situation or a certain place it's just owning what you want to do and what a privilege and luxury that we have a choice on what we have to do because our ancestors did it.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just like what can bring us money so it could have food on the table.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: My dad had two goals in life it was food on the table because he grew up very poor.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And second was all my kids have to go to college.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: But Nicole I always love ending the show with what is one reflective question and one action item or maybe it's a combination of the two that you want to leave our listeners.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm I think it's that question about letting go what are you ready to let what are you ready to let go of what are you willing to let go of and what do you gain by hanging on to it ooh can you give maybe a small example so people don't think it has to be like I have to break up with this person or I have to leave my job?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people think it needs to be something big but really it could be something tiny and small.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: So what's an example?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it can be like it can even it can be an emotion it can be like a a story a stereo something that you know an emotion that's holding you back or that's taking up space or a story that you've been telling yourself about yourself.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not necessarily like oh you you write it down this thing you're ready to let go of and it just poof goes away.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like letting go is not that easy but that process of bringing awareness to it is really important because that's where I think a coach or a therapist can be really helpful when you know what you're what you're ready to let go of.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: We can help you start to work through that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh that is such a great exercise well I hope you guys take a break or no after this episode journal about that.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And since I'm dropping this like the end of the year beginning of the year this is the best time to start thinking about what you want to let go of.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So Nicole I learned a lot from this episode even though I am your coach but there's something you've shared with me before we hit record.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So please state it again to our listeners.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I was saying when it comes to burnout and beware of easy fixes because a lot of the information about burnout a lot of the articles at least the ones that I read are coming from white people who have access to different resources and they have different privileges.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so burnout seems like it's really easy to prevent it's really easy to solve and that's just not true.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's especially the case for black indigenous and people of color like you know when I as a black woman participate in quiet quitting it's going to have different consequences than it has for someone who's not a black woman.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So and just in case just in case can you explain what quiet quitting is for people that don't know what that is yeah it's a very annoying term if you ask me but it's this it's this whole idea that you go into work and you do exactly you know like what's in your job description you do what you have to do you don't go above and beyond.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so it you know quiet quitting it's the the whole that title is is strange to me because it's like not not overdoing itself as a we're calling those people quitters when they're still showing up for work and still doing their jobs.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean I think it's what we were unfortunately taught as millennials like stay up late you're going to get a promotion or you do all the hard work versus you could actually leave at 5 p.m but like you were saying earlier in the episode it depends on the culture of the organization it depends on the culture.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and be look pay it pay attention to who is who is giving burnout tips and if those tips are the right ones for you because I know when I first started reading a lot about burnout a lot of the the articles I was I was coming across and even some of the books were coming from people who had burned out you know building a tech company and they made billions of dollars and then they retired or went on to do something else and they were talking about like don't work hard don't do this don't sacrifice this.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like but you can say that now because you're a millionaire or a billionaire or whatever.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just like I I didn't feel like and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say that there's anything wrong with like working hard and making a lot of money and reflecting on what you would have done differently that's all valuable.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't feel like I saw my experience and my my experience in the world my limitations the things that I'm up against my particular stressors and challenges were not reflected in those stories.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: I am just flown away this episode I learned a lot and and I hope you guys have as well and I will not say that we haven't made progress right since we've been born we have had made progress but there's also more progress to be made and a theme I'm hearing from this episode the importance of feeling seen and heard and if you have felt differently from other people because you have grown up differently there's a reason why you feel differently from other people and what's important is being around the right people and working with the right people.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even necessarily saying hiring a coach like me or Nicole but even if you're working a full-time job are you around people that make you feel safe so thank you Nicole you're welcome thank you just like Nicole shared with being aware of easy fixes and stress and burnout also be wary of easy fixes in your own career and life.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And what's important is being feel unseen just like what Nicole shared where you want to realign your life and career.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to work with me and my team so you can be truly seen and heard so you can have the business that revolves around your life so you can actually spend time with loved ones this holiday or any day schedule a complimentary 30 minute legacy Disney set review call where we will one identify your personal professional goals to create two in business review your current pricing and packages and see what needs to be edited to fit your dream lifestyle.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you're in your career review your current leadership styles and what needs to be edited and shifted and three receive three action items.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So schedule a complimentary 30 minute legacy business review call go to elanelew.com forward slash call that's elanelew.com forward slash call legacy maker if you love this call your dreams episode we would love it if you can leave a rating and review on Apple.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: So more women of color and allies can benefit too and if you have one or two friends that would get so much from this particular episode please share.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: The intention behind the Call Your Dreams podcast was to contribute and give back to our people all right we'll see you next Thursday for our newest Call Your Dreams episode and don't forget to call your dreams to create your legacy