Latest / Succession and Transition / Social Entrepreneurs Passing the Baton - DY Suharya

Transcript

Social Entrepreneurs Passing the Baton - DY Suharya · Succession and Transition

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Hi there, my name is Chris Underhill.
0:04
SPEAKER_05: I'm Andrew Coleman.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm Mary.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: We've created the Elders Council for Social Entrepreneurs to explore succession, leadership, well-being, and money.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Navigating the good times and the bad.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: We want to extend a very warm welcome to you, DY.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much indeed for agreeing to be on the webinar today.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: I'll give a couple of lines of explanation as to who you are to the others, but there is much more on our website if you'd like to know more about DY.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: She is the regional director of Alzheimer's Disease International, that's usually known as ADI or ADI, the Asia Pacific region, and founder of Alzheimer's Indonesia, an NGO that aims to improve quality of life, people with dementia, and family of caregivers, and works towards greater dementia awareness and risk reduction in Indonesia.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: So DY, welcome, and it's lovely to have you with us speaking today as a social entrepreneur, thinking about succession and all of that kind of stuff in relation to your Indonesian organization and making a major contribution in this context to your role as the regional director of Alzheimer's Disease International when it comes to advising and supporting others in the succession and transition journey.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: We also welcome today Andrea Coleman, who's one of our co-founders, and is going to be co-hosting the session with DY.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Andrea, you're very welcome, of course, as is Mel.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: And just to remind people that you are the founder of Two Wheels for Life and the co-founder of Riders for Health.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: So let me hand over to you, Andrea, to get us started.
1:48
SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much, Chris.
1:49
SPEAKER_05: Good morning, everyone, and very warm welcome to DY.
1:53
SPEAKER_05: This is a real pleasure to have you here.
1:55
SPEAKER_05: DY, I've been thinking since I've been reading about your work, I've really been thinking about how important it is to all social entrepreneurs about that very personal that what drives us and what keeps us so committed to what we do is that real deep belief and personal commitment to what we do.
2:19
SPEAKER_05: And I think that's really relevant, of course, to how you build your organization, how you create the vision and the mission.
2:27
SPEAKER_05: But it's also fundamental to how we approach succession and transition, because there's that old saying about social enterprise is your baby.
2:37
SPEAKER_05: I don't like that description, but I know it is deeply embedded in all of us and makes it very challenging for succession and transition.
2:45
SPEAKER_05: But before we get to that part, the sort of working towards the end part, let's talk about your beginning and how you came to start your organization.
2:56
SPEAKER_06: Thank you, everyone.
2:57
SPEAKER_06: Thank you for joining.
2:58
SPEAKER_06: I started Alsan was Indonesia 11 years ago, I think, a decade or more ago.
3:03
SPEAKER_06: It's because of my mother who was diagnosed with dementia.
3:08
SPEAKER_06: I was pursuing my PhD in Perth, Western Australia, and public health communication.
3:14
SPEAKER_06: I had a dream of pursuing an academic career, living and working in Australia.
3:20
SPEAKER_06: But I think there's a powerful impact of the wording of life begins at 40, because it all happened in my 40s.
3:28
SPEAKER_06: How all the plans had to be revised, so to speak.
3:33
SPEAKER_06: And my dad basically called me and said, You're pursuing your PhD in public health communication, but your mom's diagnosed with dementia.
3:41
SPEAKER_06: We need your help to support the journey of caring.
3:45
SPEAKER_06: So I had to let go.
3:46
SPEAKER_06: I had to let go the PhD pass because I wanted to take care of my mom wholeheartedly.
3:52
SPEAKER_06: So I went back home and realized when I accompanied my mom, I became a full-time caregiver.
3:59
SPEAKER_06: And I also have a background in public health communication.
4:04
SPEAKER_06: I graduated from Curtain University in public health communication and journalism from Ohio State University.
4:11
SPEAKER_06: So I had this journalism background and public health communication background, but I had to really wholeheartedly focus my energy on taking care of my mom, including accompanying her to the doctor, and realized that there's no support group in Indonesia.
4:27
SPEAKER_06: So I asked the doctor saying, How can you help more?
4:32
SPEAKER_06: And it was interesting because the doctor basically said, you have too many questions.
4:36
SPEAKER_06: Just go to an international conference.
4:42
SPEAKER_06: And I thought this is one of the best psycho geriatricians in the country.
4:46
SPEAKER_06: And the person's not willing to give me all this detail of answers.
4:51
SPEAKER_06: So that's how triggered the birth of Alzheimer's Indonesia.
4:56
SPEAKER_06: I wanted to connect, I wanted to learn from other families.
5:00
SPEAKER_06: I have so many questions.
5:02
SPEAKER_06: And because my previous background in the World Bank, UNICEF, World Health Organization, I was also exposed to all these organizations, psychogeriatrician, neurologists, psychiatrists, and multidisciplinary people.
5:19
SPEAKER_06: So I realized that this issue of dementia is everybody's business because it's affecting everyone.
5:26
SPEAKER_06: So my mom's dementia led me to this path of the journey of caring.
5:30
SPEAKER_06: And her legacy continues, although she's no longer with us.
5:33
SPEAKER_06: And I thank her because of her, I managed to combine all these experiences in journalism, in public health, in advocacy, capacity building, training, and everything, including leadership, through the birth of Alzheimer's Indonesia.
5:48
SPEAKER_06: Started with five people, volunteers, and now it's grown to 10,000 followers, hundreds of teams in 28 chapters in Indonesia and overseas, JSPORA, and we are a member of Alzheimer's Disease International.
6:03
SPEAKER_06: So that's how it started.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: That's quite a big outfit.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm fascinated to know just before we get into how you developed the organization, how did you actually get all those hubs and all of those volunteers?
6:19
SPEAKER_06: I actually started off, of course, we all have a circle of friends, and I reach out to friends.
6:26
SPEAKER_06: And I was a journalist, I was an editor-in-chief in the past.
6:30
SPEAKER_06: So I work in the TV station in the past as well.
6:33
SPEAKER_06: So I reached out to a few of friends of mine and asked for their help because starting this organization, there's this governance aspect, there's programs and services, there's the organizational development and this awareness raising program and all that.
6:49
SPEAKER_06: So I started off because I did not know that my mom's behavior is actually a symptom of dementia.
6:55
SPEAKER_06: That symptom happened 20 years ago.
6:59
SPEAKER_06: So all of my siblings are all well educated, but none of them identify that it's dementia until we receive a diagnosis from the psychogeriatrician.
7:09
SPEAKER_06: So I set it up reaching out to friends, and apparently, all the friends of mine who I reach out to either have their parents, mom or dad that have dementia, diagnosed with dementia, or their grandparents.
7:22
SPEAKER_06: So there is this something in common that we have, and we believe in this cause.
7:26
SPEAKER_06: And the psychogeriatrician is the one who led me to learn that there is a federation of more than 100 associations on dementia in the world, and it's based in UK.
7:37
SPEAKER_06: And it started off by four champions from US, UK, Canada, and Australia.
7:43
SPEAKER_06: I established through the organizations having the paperwork done, reach out to a friend of mine who's a lawyer.
7:50
SPEAKER_06: Through my journey of high school, college, I identified people that shared similar spirit in the keyword of contribution, in the keyword of giving, the spirit of them wanting to help and do more.
8:04
SPEAKER_06: And I'm lucky because I was surrounded by great friends who helped through the paperwork side and through the campaign side.
8:12
SPEAKER_06: So that's how it started, Chris.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much indeed.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Andrea, do you want to jump in?
8:18
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, one of the things you said right at the start was about life beginning at 40, which really links to the fact that you did so many things before you started the organization that you didn't know were going to come into play to do that.
8:35
SPEAKER_05: It's almost as if you were gathering all that knowledge, all those connections, all those networks for a reason you didn't know, and all of a sudden they all came together.
8:46
SPEAKER_05: So I think that one of the pieces of wisdom is that you don't know about all the things that you bring in your life together to do your social enterprise.
8:57
SPEAKER_05: So I think that's really fascinating.
9:00
SPEAKER_05: And in fact, I was 40 also when I started first social enterprise, and I think all the things I gathered were very helpful in what I did.
9:07
SPEAKER_05: So as you've moved through the organization, have you really been working with government around the world?
9:16
SPEAKER_05: How has that been?
9:17
SPEAKER_05: Has it been hard to influence government?
9:21
SPEAKER_06: Influence government.
9:22
SPEAKER_06: It's a never-ending work, Andrea, for sure.
9:25
SPEAKER_06: It's for the past 10 years in Indonesia alone, there has been a change of four ministers of health.
9:32
SPEAKER_06: And we have to always allocate time to advocate to them, to meet them, to understand their KPIs, aligning with their KPIs, aligning with the global agenda as well, regional and national agenda.
9:48
SPEAKER_06: So in terms of working with government, it's always a challenge, but there's always a way.
9:54
SPEAKER_06: And I remember a clear vision is important.
9:57
SPEAKER_06: So after I started the Alzheimer's Indonesia, it's part of Alzheimer's Disease International.
10:02
SPEAKER_06: They have Alzheimer's University workshops and everything.
10:06
SPEAKER_06: And I learned about the trocasi from the keyword of advocare, walking with someone, speaking on someone's behalf, walking together with them.
10:15
SPEAKER_06: And my mom has always been my inspiration.
10:18
SPEAKER_06: This is something that is my social calling because she helped me to connect all the skills and everything.
10:24
SPEAKER_06: When you mentioned earlier, I did not plan to be in this field.
10:29
SPEAKER_06: I mentioned to you earlier, I was actually in my half of an academic career in Curtain University.
10:36
SPEAKER_06: But life always gives us all these other options that you did not plan.
10:41
SPEAKER_06: Steve Jobs is one of the ones that inspired because he mentioned in one of his speeches about connecting the dots until we know how to connect the dots.
10:50
SPEAKER_06: And this is why I remember when I was 12 years old, I want debate competition, I want public speaking competition, and work in the journalism industry and all that.
11:00
SPEAKER_06: It's all connected.
11:01
SPEAKER_06: And then I work for UNICEF, WHO, it's all this connection of uh skills, knowledge, network, and everything.
11:09
SPEAKER_06: And there's a way to connect with the government to understand what's in it for them.
11:15
SPEAKER_06: So I remember the Minister of Health Indonesia that I first met is in her mid-70s.
11:20
SPEAKER_06: So it was easy to pitch this idea to her.
11:24
SPEAKER_06: But then administration changed, and the second one is saying, I'm not interested in this topic.
11:31
SPEAKER_06: But I literally created the campaign involving intergeneration and realized that she literally came to me and said, You created too much noise in the media.
11:43
SPEAKER_06: Everybody's talking about dementia, and there's no way, nowhere to hide.
11:47
SPEAKER_06: So finally I said it's important for a country to have a dementia plan, and that in 2017, WHO member states all agreed to have global dementia action plans.
11:58
SPEAKER_06: All countries around the world, they all adopted this idea that they have to have a dementia plan in their country.
12:05
SPEAKER_06: So I guess the answer is yes, it's challenging with government, but we'll never give up because it's for a bigger context, bigger plan, bigger impact.
12:15
SPEAKER_05: Well, and of course, you have all the characteristics of a change maker, a disruptor.
12:20
SPEAKER_05: It's thrilling to see that this morning.
12:22
SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much for that description.
12:24
SPEAKER_05: I wonder what that was like for you working on being an academic, all the skills that you were learning, and driving your path in a way through an almost public world, but having to turn then to somebody who is a caregiver, which is a very different position and a real big psychological shift.
12:45
SPEAKER_05: And I'm mentioning that because I think that later on, as we're talking about succession and transition, that management of the psychological shift is so important.
12:57
SPEAKER_05: And I just wonder what that was like at that particular point for you.
13:01
SPEAKER_05: From changing to almost a public persona to a caregiver, somebody who's very much giving up their lives, really, for somebody else.
13:09
SPEAKER_06: Yes, that is correct.
13:11
SPEAKER_06: It was really hard to let go because you have plans, right?
13:15
SPEAKER_06: I always have a three-year plan, five-year plan, ten-year plan.
13:19
SPEAKER_06: And then one day you realize there's no other way than letting go and connect with the higher energy and say, okay, life begins at 40.
13:30
SPEAKER_06: I've made all these plans all this time.
13:33
SPEAKER_06: There is something that is beyond my power, and I have to go with the flow.
13:39
SPEAKER_06: I remember I had to choose between PhD or my mom.
13:43
SPEAKER_06: Of course, I chose my mom because I do not want to regret at some point.
13:48
SPEAKER_06: And I think it was the best decision.
13:50
SPEAKER_06: Otherwise, I wouldn't meet all of you here right now.
13:54
SPEAKER_06: So it was the transition of that change of the mindset, the psychological context.
13:59
SPEAKER_06: It's a lot of reflection, Andrea.
14:02
SPEAKER_06: It's by becoming a full-time caregiver for almost, I think, seven years, I realized that it's that moment I had to make the most out of it and realize by going through the role as a caregiver, it led me to a new profession that I created, which is a care navigator.
14:20
SPEAKER_06: Like every family needs their own care navigator to navigate their journey of caring, because you can't just go to a doctor and get all the answers.
14:30
SPEAKER_06: It's limited time.
14:32
SPEAKER_06: You have to have somebody who manages everything.
14:35
SPEAKER_06: It's basically like an account manager on health issues, internal, family-based, community-based, and all that.
14:42
SPEAKER_06: It's a learning by doing kind of experience.
14:44
SPEAKER_06: And of course, there's always family dynamics.
14:47
SPEAKER_06: Not all siblings are in the same frequency of wanting to do that caregiving role.
14:52
SPEAKER_06: So I learned everything about everybody has their part to contribute.
14:57
SPEAKER_06: Another key word of contribution.
14:59
SPEAKER_06: You don't necessarily have to physically be there as a caregiver to contribute your part.
15:04
SPEAKER_06: It was a very interesting one decade of learning.
15:08
SPEAKER_05: I really feel we'll really refer back to what you are saying there about the navigation, that you have to have that central navigator and then to distribute the tasks around.
15:21
SPEAKER_05: So I think that will come back into the conversation in a little while.
15:26
SPEAKER_05: I just wonder if at this point, just because the work that you do is relevant to absolutely everybody on the planet, there is nobody who doesn't have a family member or a friend or someone who has this in their lives.
15:41
SPEAKER_05: I think that's very unusual in that most of us are dealing with pretty niche issues.
15:48
SPEAKER_05: And because what you're working with is so relevant to everyone in the world, I just wonder if at this point there's anyone who's already on the webinar that would like to contribute, ask a question or make a comment.
16:01
SPEAKER_05: If not, of course, we can move along.
16:04
SPEAKER_05: But I'd be interested to hear if there's anyone.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: Honey, please come in.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
16:09
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, DY.
16:10
SPEAKER_03: This is such a fascinating journey.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: It's a journey of integration of everything and letting go.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think we all learn from this, but for me, a very important part of it is how you started organizing by just uh connecting with a group of friends.
16:29
SPEAKER_03: A very interesting way because the whole journey is everything and also very personal and really deep because it's your mom.
16:37
SPEAKER_03: But I'm so struck by that because I'm not that way.
16:40
SPEAKER_03: It's like a wonderful thing to say, I'm just going to go with my friends to collect five friends, and then now it's a worldwide thing.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: That's so fantastic.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: And it reminds me of Margaret Mead, who said that never doubt a small group of young and committed people can change the world.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: So you have changed the world by just collecting your friends and knowing your core value, which is family, which is your mom, and flexibility to let go of so many things and just change totally into something very important but very personal.
17:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm just astounded by this kind of journey.
17:18
SPEAKER_03: So I just want to congratulate you so much for that.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of learning for me.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
17:24
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
17:24
SPEAKER_06: I lost a few friends as well in the journey.
17:29
SPEAKER_06: And then it just helped me to learn there's a formula and getting to know people through working together through a particular cause, through traveling together with limited budget, and through mummy.
17:40
SPEAKER_06: These are the three things that you can learn more from people.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: We're doing a lot of learning.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, honey, by the way, for your question.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Your contribution is really welcome.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: DY, it was in 2016, I think, that you started to think about your succession for the first time.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I think is really interesting for us to learn about is that as far as Alzheimer's Indonesia is concerned, you've been thinking about succession for some time.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: And I wonder whether you could just take us on some of that journey, please.
18:11
SPEAKER_06: Sure.
18:12
SPEAKER_06: So what happened was I established Alzheimer's Indonesia in 2013 with zero funding and reach out to friends, getting in kind support, simply have a vision on improvement quality life, because my quality life is affected of taking care of my mom, and the entire member of a family is affected as well.
18:32
SPEAKER_06: But in 2013 it was established, it's not easy to start off everything, but it has to start somewhere.
18:39
SPEAKER_06: And we have the pillars of communication, community-based initiative, pillars of education, capacity building, and pillars of outreach.
18:48
SPEAKER_06: And there's all these program elements of advocacy, capacity building, research, fundraising, and all that.
18:55
SPEAKER_06: In 2016, because Alzheimer's Indonesia is a member of Alzheimer's Disease International, ADI basically said there's this opportunity to help 20 other countries in the region, and they're looking for a regional director, but they're not offering this opportunity to me unless I found a successor, so to speak.
19:15
SPEAKER_06: So they don't want to get Indonesia in trouble of not having a good leader or the organization is not going anywhere.
19:22
SPEAKER_06: And I have to think about how to start this, how to transfer knowledge and skills.
19:27
SPEAKER_06: And it started off by the process of identifying the champions, the drivers, the leaders, positions within the organizations.
19:37
SPEAKER_06: So it's based on the program to improve quality life.
19:42
SPEAKER_06: It's from awareness raising, advocacy, and providing services.
19:46
SPEAKER_06: And it's always led by two divisions of social division and science division, and there's a secretariat.
19:54
SPEAKER_06: So I have to identify from the volunteers who have the capacity in running that division.
20:02
SPEAKER_06: And I have to also reach out to the board.
20:05
SPEAKER_06: And our organization is an intergenerational team.
20:08
SPEAKER_06: So people in their 20s to 95 is in this organization.
20:14
SPEAKER_06: So that's how it started, Chris.
20:16
SPEAKER_06: Knowing that the organization is in good hands because it has a board of trustees, there's a board of supervisory, there's the executive team with a lead of executive director and also lead social and lead science, and have the impact measurement toolkit in the beginning.
20:35
SPEAKER_06: This is how you measure success.
20:37
SPEAKER_06: How many people that we're helping, how many chapter leaders that we recruited, so to speak.
20:43
SPEAKER_06: So in order to improve quality lives of people with dementia and family caregivers, we can't do it alone.
20:48
SPEAKER_06: We have to strengthen the chapter leaders, the individuals who's running this division.
20:55
SPEAKER_06: I hope that answered the question, Chris.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: It certainly begins to answer the question, doesn't it?
21:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that between us all, we're going to find more answers to the basic question.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that you said, and Andrea and I were thinking about this before the webinar began, one thing that you said was that you wanted, on the one hand, to proceed in a succession process and to gently remove yourself from the everyday, which is what you've described.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand, you were the founder, and you're always going to be the founder.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: So from that point of view, you're very clear.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: And then you go on to say, but I am keen not to be accused or to have founder syndrome, or as you said a little earlier, founderitis.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: And so you're balancing these different pluses and minuses, different ways of waiting, this particular conundrum.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really at the heart of this webinar in many ways, the way in which you're dealing or handling this particular conundrum.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: I know that you don't think that you have the Answer for everybody, but we want to know what the answer is for you and how you see it, because that's how we'll learn.
22:07
SPEAKER_06: Thank you, Chris.
22:08
SPEAKER_06: Yes, that's correct.
22:09
SPEAKER_06: Founder syndrome or founder right is it's one or more founders maintain this proportionate influence or power.
22:17
SPEAKER_06: I think it's about power as well.
22:19
SPEAKER_06: Uh, and it's affecting the organization and leading to a wide range of unnecessary problems.
22:26
SPEAKER_06: I think it's also an attachment.
22:29
SPEAKER_06: So it was one of those things that I realized that I want this organization to always contribute to support the improvement of quality of life.
22:38
SPEAKER_06: And although I will always be the founder, if I'm no longer around, this organization has to deliver what's needed for people with dementia, for family caregivers, for intergeneration, for youth to understand more about this issue earlier.
22:53
SPEAKER_06: It's a way to balance things.
22:55
SPEAKER_06: And it's important to understand that the context of founder syndrome, it's not gonna be good for the entire organization.
23:03
SPEAKER_06: And that's why I realized that I have to identify and I have to start with the succession planning.
23:09
SPEAKER_06: ADI, Alzheimer's International, rescued me of having this role.
23:13
SPEAKER_06: If I can start with zero funding in Indonesia and the third year, cured finally funding to support all the programs.
23:21
SPEAKER_06: There's many other countries, lower middle income countries in the Asia-Pacific region that can also learn about this technique in running their organization.
23:30
SPEAKER_06: So what I did was I know for sure that my influence has to have a certain balance.
23:36
SPEAKER_06: And that's why it's important to pass it on, pass on the button, like you said in the title of this, to others.
23:44
SPEAKER_06: And it's important to involve different generations, although we work differently, different mindset and everything, but we have to find a way to work together all for a particular cause.
23:56
SPEAKER_06: So that's the process that I did internally.
23:59
SPEAKER_06: It's knowing for sure that succession planning is important, allocating the time and commitment, identifying the positions needed in running the organization, establishing the criteria of all roles, uh, what's needed, and you know, pinpoint a potential talent pipeline, always recruiting, always seeing talents everywhere, and create an action plan and a strategy and how to measure it.
24:27
SPEAKER_05: May I ask you, uh DY, you're a very practical person as well as someone who's driven by belief.
24:34
SPEAKER_05: Is there a small part of you somewhere that's not part of your practical approach that feels concerned about succession and transition, somewhere that where you feel uncertain about it?
24:49
SPEAKER_05: Or do you feel that by doing all these practical and logical things that somehow that takes you along?
24:57
SPEAKER_05: Or is there just somewhere in the middle of you that feels concerned about that?
25:02
SPEAKER_06: I am very practical, like you said.
25:05
SPEAKER_06: Um when you mention about concern, I think it's common, it's natural.
25:10
SPEAKER_06: There's an idea, there's a vision, and there's a particular standard on how to do it.
25:16
SPEAKER_06: And it has to be repeated, it has to be delivered.
25:21
SPEAKER_06: You have to show, you have to be a role model in what you believe.
25:26
SPEAKER_06: And one of the concerns is actually how certain standards are not happening, for instance, have to let things go and trust the team to learn from their own mistakes, as long as it's still within the corridor of what's agreed.
25:41
SPEAKER_06: I hope that answers your question.
25:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I actually think that what you've just said in a very concise way is something that troubles all founders.
25:50
SPEAKER_05: And I'm often worried about people talking about founder syndrome or founderitis, as you put it, almost like an illness, almost as if founders are always a problem, rather than what is it that is fundamental about a founder that they bring?
26:08
SPEAKER_05: And how, using one of your words from earlier, how do they personally navigate their way on the sort of psychological part, but also, and this is something that has troubled me, and I know it troubles so many founders.
26:22
SPEAKER_05: How do you keep those standards?
26:24
SPEAKER_05: How do you ensure that, as you so beautifully put it, keep things along that particular corridor?
26:30
SPEAKER_05: And I think that you really have described something that is a real fundamental problem for all founders.
26:38
SPEAKER_05: So thank you for that.
26:40
SPEAKER_05: Have you found that your board is very supportive and helpful to you and the organization in this process?
26:47
SPEAKER_06: Yes, the board is very supportive, that's for sure.
26:51
SPEAKER_06: And that support might not be translated to replying things promptly or giving positive encouragement and all that.
27:01
SPEAKER_06: But I realize that's part of the dynamic of the board.
27:05
SPEAKER_06: And there was the situation that one of the board members is actually not functioning because there is bylaws that we have, and that's why it's important.
27:14
SPEAKER_06: One of the things that we have in the organization is we have the association of health evaluation measurement.
27:21
SPEAKER_06: So it's a basically a self-assessment.
27:24
SPEAKER_06: How are we doing in leadership and governance?
27:27
SPEAKER_06: How are we doing in awareness and advocacy?
27:30
SPEAKER_06: How are we doing in programs and services?
27:33
SPEAKER_06: How are we doing in organizational development and financial sustainability?
27:37
SPEAKER_06: It's a traffic light system.
27:39
SPEAKER_06: Are we in red?
27:40
SPEAKER_06: Are we heading to yellow?
27:41
SPEAKER_06: Are we heading to green?
27:43
SPEAKER_06: In the beginning, the green one is about awareness and focus.
27:46
SPEAKER_06: It's heavy on that because my background is in journalism, communication, and public health.
27:52
SPEAKER_06: So I know how to come up with a talking points or a message and aligning with a global message as well.
27:59
SPEAKER_06: But in terms of programs and services, it's something that needs a lot of tweaking.
28:03
SPEAKER_06: In terms of leadership and governance, it's always a challenge internally as well, and the organizational development and financial sustainability.
28:12
SPEAKER_06: Not until I think the fourth year or the fifth year, it's finally reaching to a particular stage that is a good, healthy organization.
28:21
SPEAKER_06: Because you have volunteers, but you have to have the paid staff that can run the secretariat, that can run the programs, that can answer the hotline, care line, whatever you want to call it.
28:33
SPEAKER_06: So you have to have that standard in order to take things to the next level.
28:39
SPEAKER_06: But it does take time, and a particular standard might not be translated well by the different generation.
28:45
SPEAKER_06: But my friend Maria Clara is somebody that I'm always inspired by as well, because we're also part of Ashoka as Chris as well.
28:52
SPEAKER_06: And this term of longevity that I learned that we are constantly learning, lifelong learning, lifelong contribution, lifelong connection, lifelong well-being, and economic security and self-definition, like it transforms or you evolve.
29:09
SPEAKER_06: So that's what I learned from this process: evolvement.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: That in fact, yeah, all three of us are Ashok Fellows.
29:17
SPEAKER_06: So Ashoka Fellows, yes.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And Maria Clara, you were just named by a DY.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: So it is as if she reached out and put her finger on your forehead.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: It would be nice to hear from you.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Give us a question or a comment on what you have heard so far, and do by all means mention new longevity as you do.
29:35
SPEAKER_04: Yes, no, thank you.
29:37
SPEAKER_04: And DY has been such an inspiration at so many levels.
29:40
SPEAKER_04: But I think that there are many things here at DY that you mentioned about transition that is what we see as a struggle for many of the Ashoka fellows.
29:48
SPEAKER_04: We were just together in Spain and we were talking about this, and you could see the suffering, like letting that baby go.
29:55
SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, I don't want to keep managing like this anymore.
29:58
SPEAKER_04: I want to create, I want to innovate.
30:00
SPEAKER_04: So I think the struggle between growing an organization and then having to manage, and then versus this need that entrepreneurs have to create and to innovate and to bring this to other people and other places, it's always a struggle.
30:17
SPEAKER_04: And what I'm hearing here from you, and it's the first time I'm hearing you talk in detail about your transition, I think like building this team and this structure of people that you trust that allow you to take this step also is a big thing.
30:31
SPEAKER_04: And I think it's not everyone is able to do that, but it's beautiful to see the way that you described how you've done it.
30:38
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
30:38
SPEAKER_04: And one thing that I want to share that I learned from DY some years ago, that was one of the best descriptions that I've heard.
30:46
SPEAKER_04: She once said that the best way to work on prevention for dementia is being a caregiver.
30:54
SPEAKER_04: And she was describing how when you are a caregiver, you have to learn so much about the condition, the disease that you really learn how to care for yourself, also.
31:03
SPEAKER_04: And that stayed with me because it's such a powerful way of putting caregiving as a way of also working in yourself.
31:11
SPEAKER_04: And it's really beautiful.
31:12
SPEAKER_04: Thank you, DY.
31:14
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
31:15
SPEAKER_06: You know, two out of three people around the world will be a caregiver or will be somebody that's been taken care of.
31:23
SPEAKER_06: So I think that's an opportunity for us to learn our own journey of caring.
31:28
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: That's quite a statistic, isn't it, Andrea?
31:31
SPEAKER_01: Quite an amazing statistic when you think about it.
31:34
SPEAKER_05: Yes, it will be something that's going to be relevant to everyone.
31:39
SPEAKER_05: I know, and DY knows that more than anyone.
31:42
SPEAKER_05: Chris, would you like to come in with more comments or shall we invite some more people to speak?
31:49
SPEAKER_01: I think this is a great time to hear from others.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Hannah, do you want to come in?
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Hannah Morelio, you're one of our long-term friends, and your comment would be welcome.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Hi, thank you so much, Chris.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Many thanks, Trimakasi DY.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: It's such a beautiful journey that you shared with all of us.
32:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm particularly inspired by just hearing and soaking in all the letting go and surrendering.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: And then, like when you connect the dots, it's actually led you to a more fulfilling, meaningful journey.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: If you just relinquish the control.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: And I can only imagine your mindset in that kind of crux and that intersection, just letting go.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: And then when you said, okay, life begins at 40, for some people, it means produce, or but for you, it's when you let go and when you let your life really unfold.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: You let yourself be just thrilled by the magic of the unfolding, it seems.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just really happy to listen to everyone.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Hannah.
32:58
SPEAKER_06: It's good to meet you virtually.
33:00
SPEAKER_06: And there's a certain level of trust that you have to do, to apply to the universe, and lots of self-reflection as well.
33:08
SPEAKER_06: Especially as Andrea mentioned earlier, the whole transition of a particular role, you always have to evolve and adapt.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: And if I may share also, I've just turned into that decade of the 40s and listening to these negative wisdom is just so beautiful.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: And the way Andre uh earlier said that you don't really see all these connections and networks coming forth and really presenting itself or manifesting until you see it from where you are at this vantage point.
33:42
SPEAKER_05: Is there anyone else who'd like to ask DY question or make a comment?
33:47
SPEAKER_05: Prakash.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm Prakash here.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Divay.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for sharing your story.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Actually, Chris, my remember me, for the past one year, I have come out from my technology-based domain from the IT services company, and then working for senior citizens' care.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I have been trying out different mechanisms, starting from old-age home.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: And now I have uh landed up in daycare, providing daycare services.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Even I tried with very minimal investment to provide home-based services, but because there was a lot of limitations within me, which was I couldn't get the required number of customers.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: So now I'm starting with the daycare center along with another doctor, uh physician.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: The problem which I was facing is I don't have a medical background and experience or an experience in running this kind of elder care system or a very big talent.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm a normal person.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Only thing that I have is the passion to serve this segment of elderly.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: I love being with elderly, caring for them.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's the only thing that I have.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: And the long time of one year plus now, it's definitely not a long year, but that's bringing me a lot of doubts whether I will be able to know, take it forward or not.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Did you also face that kind of doubts when you were running it during the initial times?
35:15
SPEAKER_06: Prakas, thank you for sharing that.
35:17
SPEAKER_06: I totally relate to what you said.
35:19
SPEAKER_06: I also don't have a medical degree.
35:22
SPEAKER_06: I graduated from a faculty of letters, University of Indonesia, was in English literature and then journalism and then public health communication.
35:31
SPEAKER_06: But in the beginning, when I went to the doctor and had those questions and she was not able to answer all the questions, she was actually one of the persons that questioned me because I don't have a doctor, uh medical degree, and say, What do you know?
35:46
SPEAKER_06: You know, as a caregiver.
35:48
SPEAKER_06: So it's been a challenge dealing with a few people in the beginning, but I realized that I think it's about values.
35:56
SPEAKER_06: If we shared similar values, values of serving instead of values of glorifying things or wanting to look good or wanting to look smart or great in what you do, I think that's how you also learn how to navigate.
36:12
SPEAKER_06: Because I experience what you experience, but I have a very solid purpose.
36:18
SPEAKER_06: I want my quality life to remain good.
36:21
SPEAKER_06: I want my mom to also have a good quality life.
36:24
SPEAKER_06: And although after diagnosis, life continues to be well.
36:28
SPEAKER_06: And it's actually you need a multidisciplinary team.
36:32
SPEAKER_06: So the key is to identify those experts, so to speak, having people with dementia, family caregivers.
36:39
SPEAKER_06: You don't necessarily have to always be led by a medical doctor.
36:44
SPEAKER_06: In fact, they shared or contribute a certain element, but you also have to run things or organize things, not necessarily applying the medical uh doctor type of skills, so to speak.
36:57
SPEAKER_06: So the answer is yes.
36:59
SPEAKER_06: And it was a challenge in the first two, three years.
37:02
SPEAKER_06: But finally, because we respect each other and you learn together and we know that everybody cannot do things alone.
37:11
SPEAKER_06: So we contribute and focus to deliver our best for this particular cause.
37:16
SPEAKER_06: You act on something, you belong to a community, and you contribute to the max.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for that answer.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: And Brakash, thank you very much indeed for being so vulnerable with us today.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: That is really important.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: There's no question, all of us who are social entrepreneurs on this school know perfectly well that social entrepreneurship itself can be quite a lonely journey sometimes.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: And of course, in this particular sector, when you are working with people, when you are passionate about working with people, as you very ablely described, that can also be quite lonely making, a vulnerable making.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, you have to understand that in this particular community, you are absolutely not alone.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: You are part of our community, and that's important to all of us.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: We have a couple more minutes, and then we're going to ask Mel to do a little bit of a summary at the end of this conversation.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: This is something he always does very well.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: Andrea, anything from you before we hand over to Mel?
38:16
SPEAKER_05: I don't need you to answer necessarily, DY, because I know time's moving on.
38:22
SPEAKER_05: But one of the people that we spoke to quite early in the webinars was about how your staff and the people you serve feel about you stepping away and about how you move on.
38:34
SPEAKER_05: And I just wanted to raise it as something that is fundamental to what we're all addressing about transition and succession, because I do think that often people forget it.
38:47
SPEAKER_05: Of course, it's about us as founders, but it's also so key to how people feel whether they feel scared about you moving away and how they're going to manage without you.
38:57
SPEAKER_05: So I just wanted to raise that and just a very brief answer before we hand over to Mel would be great.
39:03
SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Andrea.
39:04
SPEAKER_06: So again, the keyword is trust.
39:06
SPEAKER_06: And yes, there was that fear if I'm not around, what's going to happen and all that.
39:12
SPEAKER_06: But there's a structure that we agreed on.
39:14
SPEAKER_06: I'm not going anywhere.
39:16
SPEAKER_06: It's just the operational side of things need to be managed by different team members.
39:21
SPEAKER_06: I hope that answered the question.
39:23
SPEAKER_05: Perfectly answered.
39:24
SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much, DY.
39:26
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
39:27
SPEAKER_05: So over to you, Mel.
39:29
SPEAKER_07: Thank you very much.
39:30
SPEAKER_07: So thank you, DY.
39:32
SPEAKER_07: That was so insightful, inspiring, and relevant to everything that we're doing.
39:38
SPEAKER_07: I think to summarize, I mean you were talking about life being a learning journey and you're learning all the time.
39:44
SPEAKER_07: You told us about how you started the point in your journey where you became a caregiver because of your mother, but that didn't necessarily detract anything in life.
39:55
SPEAKER_07: You were learning from that experience.
39:58
SPEAKER_07: And then what you were able to do was to start the organization and then build the organization.
40:04
SPEAKER_07: And it was very insightful what you were talking about, your friends, how you brought your friends around to build the organization.
40:12
SPEAKER_07: And then we had the questions around how you work with government, and of course, it's the same values that you're talking about generally about how you work with government.
40:21
SPEAKER_07: We all work with governments at some level, and it's always a challenge, I think you said, but it's a question then of working out how you work with government and different parts of government to achieve your overall aims.
40:32
SPEAKER_07: I love the kind of way you described becoming caregiver and then moving on to becoming the care navigator, which I hadn't heard before.
40:40
SPEAKER_07: We then got on to the kind of issue that we've talked about a lot, which is about succession.
40:45
SPEAKER_07: I thought it was really interesting when we were talking about the move to the international side, when they were actually saying no, you can't move until you've got a successor.
40:54
SPEAKER_07: And I thought that was quite insightful because that's quite unusual to hear that.
40:57
SPEAKER_07: But then you've embraced that, uh, and you talked about that conundrum between we're moving from the everyday but still being the founder at the same time and trying to get that balance between that and how difficult that is.
41:10
SPEAKER_07: And you talked about founderitis, is another expression I've not heard before.
41:14
SPEAKER_07: So I'm learning it all the time.
41:16
SPEAKER_07: And you talked about the issue about it's been around power, about attachment, and how you give that up, and then you were really insightful about how the organization, if we're moving on, it's got to deliver.
41:28
SPEAKER_07: The key thing is so then you're in just succession plans importing, establishing the methods, identifying the talent, creating a pipeline, measuring all of that methodology was so important.
41:41
SPEAKER_07: Then we talked a little about the personal side of it, of course.
41:43
SPEAKER_07: So all of us effectively letting go and the psychological side of all of that, which was so important, and understanding, which again I thought was insightful, but allowing people in the organization that remains to make mistakes, but within a corridor.
41:57
SPEAKER_07: So there's certain values that's not negotiable in the succession plan, but you're allowing people to grow and thrive.
42:04
SPEAKER_07: Very important touch point around the board being supportive, that relationship between the founder and the board and the succession and working out measurements and self-supportive measurements that were really important.
42:17
SPEAKER_07: And then, of course, we had a number of comments then the own questions and so on.
42:21
SPEAKER_07: But to summarize what you were saying for all of us, is that people evolve.
42:26
SPEAKER_07: We evolve and we learn all the time, and that's through our friendship, our family, our communities, and then succession is woven into that.
42:34
SPEAKER_07: If we have those values, you get a proper succession plan that emerges, which involves people.
42:40
SPEAKER_07: So I hope I've been able to summarize for all of this fabulous insights that you've given us, fabulous learnings.
42:48
SPEAKER_07: And I would just, on behalf of us all, I think, really like to thank you for that, because that was just a fantastic hour.
42:54
SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Mel.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: It was a wonderful summary.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: And it now comes to us just to say thank you so much, DY, for being our guest today and speaking with us.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to join you as well, by the way.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: We need you to be part of our membership, of course.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Thank you to my co host, Andrea, for being with us and her usual insightful questions.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: It's been lovely having you with us.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Honey, good to see you again.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Rakas, thank you, Hannah.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Maria Clara.
43:25
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: Take care.