Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Getting Agent Referrals in a Post COVID World with Sean Uyehara

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Getting Agent Referrals in a Post COVID World with Sean Uyehara · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  the real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
• 0:15
  can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Coghill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:34
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
• 0:52
  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now.
• 0:58
  Visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:03
  Hey, listeners, what's up, Jeff Zimper.
• 1:11
  Welcome to another episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:14
  I am thrilled you've chosen to tune in once again.
• 1:17
  Hey, would you do me a favor?
• 1:19
  Let me know if you're liking these podcasts.
• 1:21
  There's a couple of different ways you can do that.
• 1:23
  One is, it's been a while since I asked anybody to leave a review.
• 1:26
  And if you're enjoying this, you haven't left a review yet.
• 1:29
  Hey, I'd love a review online wherever you're listening to this podcast.
• 1:32
  That just helps us stay up and current in the podcast rankings within the mortgage space.
• 1:39
  Or you can always reach out to me by emailing me podcast at mortgagemarketingradio.com and
• 1:45
  just share with me what do you like, what are the other topics you'd like to hear, any
• 1:49
  special guests you'd like to have, and you know, bottom line, what's what kind of impact
• 1:52
  is this content making with you, because I hope it is.
• 1:56
  So I appreciate that.
• 1:57
  All right.
• 1:58
  So before I bring it on my special guest for this week, I wanted to set this up as I
• 2:02
  often do in terms of our podcasts.
• 2:05
  I ran into this gentleman when I was recording some content with Neil Dingroy recently in
• 2:11
  Vegas.
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  And he's a fellow mortgage professional here in Vegas, Sean Uihara, with Loan Depot.
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  I've been in the business, gosh, over 10 years now, I think, and doing some pretty significant
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  volume.
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  Well, well, over 30 million and, you know, multiple units, but you'll hear the details
• 2:28
  from him.
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  Why I wanted to have Sean on is because if you guys have been listening to me long enough,
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  you know, I've preached the value of leading with an educational platform.
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  And when Sean and I cross paths, he shared with me what he's doing in a post-COVID world
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  with classes for real estate agents, online classes, right?
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  The digital roundtable as he calls it, I believe.
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  And the way Sean's leveraging this with in terms of how he attracts agents, how he invites
• 2:57
  agents, what he does with him in a private face group after the fact just blew my hair back.
• 3:03
  And so I wanted to bring the conversation with him to you, my listeners, because I think
• 3:08
  it's very insightful.
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  And I think there's a ton of ideas that you guys, if you are doing classes, you could
• 3:13
  leverage these because we've all pivoted now post-COVID to doing classes over Zoom until
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  we can get back to face to face.
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  And my advice is, we're going to do a blend of those.
• 3:21
  We're going to let the online drive the offline.
• 3:24
  But if you haven't yet got it started with an educational platform, leading with education
• 3:29
  to a tracked agent instead of chase agents, hey, never called call for agents again.
• 3:34
  Never chase agents, right?
• 3:35
  You're one class away, right, from changing your entire mortgage business.
• 3:40
  And if you need help with getting started with agent classes online or offline, if you
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  need help with putting together the content, which is the biggest struggle most long officers
• 3:48
  should have.
• 3:49
  And if you need help with the strategy of getting butts in the seats and the follow-up
• 3:53
  and converting to meetings and so forth, I've got the answer for you.
• 3:56
  It's called mortgage marketing pro.
• 3:59
  We've put together this library of well over 15 classes now over several years and perfecting
• 4:05
  what's working around the country to attract real estate agents with an educational platform.
• 4:10
  And now leveraging online, leveraging Zoom.
• 4:13
  And if you want to learn more, you go to mortgagemarketing.pro, that is the sponsor of today's
• 4:17
  show.
• 4:18
  And most of our shows watch the brief video we put up there for you.
• 4:21
  We'd love to have you if you're the right fit.
• 4:23
  This is not right for everybody, but we'd love to have a conversation.
• 4:28
  So go to mortgagemarketing.pro and learn more.
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  All right.
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  So without further ado, let's transition into my conversation with Sean Uihara.
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  Hey, Sean.
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  Welcome to the show.
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  Thanks Jeff for having me.
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  I appreciate it.
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  You bet, man.
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  It's great to connect with you briefly in person in Vegas a couple of weeks ago with Neil
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  there doing the video shoot.
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  Like I said, man, we've got to be able to connect more often as fellow mortgage professionals
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  here in Vegas.
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  Yeah, absolutely.
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  Totally, totally down for that.
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  Like what you're doing, man, you're popping up on the socials and all that kind of stuff.
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  Before we get into that, for anybody who's listening, just give your brief background
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  or how long in the biz, you know, and nowadays, what's kind of like average units and volume?
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  I got into business back in 2007 here in Vegas.
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  I've been in Vegas the whole time in the mortgage side.
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  And this year, we're probably on pace to do maybe about 45 million, 50 million or so.
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  Nice.
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  I think we'll probably end up, you know, somewhere around 140 units or so, hundreds of something
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  like that.
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  So yeah, right around there.
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  That's strong, man.
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  Good for you.
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  What's, and I know we're in a different market right now, but I'm just curious.
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  What's your balance right now of ReFive versus Purchase?
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  I would say probably 70, 30 purchase business, still.
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  Really?
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  Yeah, I've never been a ReFive guy.
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  I mean, I know a lot of people will probably shake their heads at that, you know, because
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  it's working your database, but every company I've always been at, you know, we've all,
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  it's just pounded in my head, you know, purchase, purchase, purchase.
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  So we still get some.
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  I mean, to be honest, I haven't even called my database this year.
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  I just started doing that yesterday.
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  So we'll see what we get out of it, but yeah, about 70, 30.
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  All right.
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  Now when you say calling your database, do you actually call or using any tech and tools
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  to kind of like voice broadcast or what's that look like?
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  I do the dialing myself.
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  I use follow up boss.
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  So I just, you know, it's all organized for me and I can just kind of click, click and
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  dial.
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  Nice.
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  Okay.
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  Thank you.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, we did, yes, I called about 50 guys yesterday and I think we got like three people
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  that sent us mortgage statements that want to do an analysis.
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  So, you know, not too bad for about an hour, hour and a half worth of work analysis.
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  So tell me about that.
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  What type of analysis do you do?
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  So basically we're just doing, kind of, well, we use mortgage coach, so we're just doing
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  a TCA, kind of giving them an example of where they are now, and just seeing if we can
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  save them money, you know, if they're looking to either do a written term or pull some cash
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  out, just basically break that down while using mortgage coach and give them that, that
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  analysis.
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  No plug for mortgage coach.
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  You find that to be a useful tool?
• 7:14
  Oh, yeah.
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  I mean, I've been using it probably the last maybe three or four years at least and I mean,
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  yes, whereby it, you know, anyone's that that's not using it, definitely need to, they
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  need to jump on that.
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  Yeah.
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  I shout out to my friend Dave.
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  It's just funny because you use the word analysis and that what's that make me think
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  of like, huh, people who use that word usually are mortgage coach users at TCA, man.
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  Yep.
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  TCA.
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  I mean, I was using mortgage coach back when there was like the CD ROMs, they mailed
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  to you and put it on your laptop.
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  It's come a long ways from that.
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  It's a great product.
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  Okay.
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  So number one source of business, realtors, realtors.
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  Okay.
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  Now I know when you and I talk, you do some unique things with realtors.
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  So we're going to kind of unpack and unfold this as we go.
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  Let's talk about like how do you or even if you want to roll back how you first got started
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  with realtors, how did you use this phrase the other day talking to a loan officer?
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  How did you present yourself to the market?
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  Because you and I both know anybody listening knows, right?
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  There's lots of ways to approach realtors.
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  But you, I think, you know, from what you told me, have a pretty unique process or system
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  may not always have had that.
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  But I'd be curious.
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  Just take us on that little journey.
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  In the beginning, you know, it was just all hustle, you know, any deal you had in escrow,
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  it was just the consistent updates, a lot of, you know, eight listening agents would love
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  the consistency from us and that kind of built our reputation.
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  And that got me a lot of meetings when I first was in the business.
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  And then from there, you try to figure out how can you plug yourself into the agents,
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  you know, business, what do they need help with the most?
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  I've gone down the rabbit hole of paying for leads and doing the CRMs and all that stuff.
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  And, you know, I mean, I'm not a big fan of it.
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  I don't necessarily do it today.
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  It's really, you know, it has to be something that I can really see that's going to benefit
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  us.
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  But I mean, a lot of times I'll tell the agents up front, like, I'm not paying for your
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  leads.
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  Don't even ask me.
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  I love that.
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  I love that.
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  How are you doing?
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  Nice to meet you.
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  I'm paying for your leads.
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  It's funny because I know where they're going, you know, and I had I had a broker
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  recently two weeks ago that literally told me, Hey, I want you to pay for our KV core.
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  It's going to be about a thousand a month.
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  And we want to test this out and see how it goes.
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  I said, Look, how about this?
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  You pay for your KV core.
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  I'll give you a buyer within the 90 day period, which will more than cover what I'm going
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  to give you.
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  And let's just go that route.
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  And they said, no, we're going to go find somebody else.
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  Seriously.
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  Oh, my gosh.
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  So I mean, I have it on my my follow up.
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  Trust me, day 91, I'm calling them and I'm going to see how their leads are doing.
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  And if that lender's following up and I mean, I can almost guarantee they're going to
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  be flopping on that thing.
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  So were you were you always that confident in saying that?
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  No, I mean, like I said, you know, I've gone down the path of paying the leads and feeling
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  that that was the best way to maybe build that relationship.
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  But you know, guys like you and a lot of other mortgage guys were talking about this stuff
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  these days, right?
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  You kind of expose that.
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  And I think for me, just learning throughout the process and being in the business, you
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  know, for a lot longer now, you kind of realize that that's not usually the best way to
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  go.
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  You're really only as good as that credit card.
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  As long as you're covering that that nut for them, yeah, they'll give you a shot.
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  But if you stop paying it more often than not, you know, they're kicking you to the curb.
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  They're going to find somebody else.
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  Yeah.
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  So it's not the good.
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  It's not the basis of a solid partnership in the beginning.
• 10:49
  Yeah.
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  You mentioned, hey, how about I give you a buyer?
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  So when I hear you say that, I know there's some elbows that do better with generating their
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  own leads and so forth.
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  So how do you do that?
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  Probably about two years ago, I really got serious about using social media for my business
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  business.
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  I was probably like a lot of people, you know, you I was private, I kept a lot of stuff
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  to myself.
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  Didn't really use it.
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  And like I said, my primary focus was just hustling agents and we always would do more
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  business every year, either more units, more volume.
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  So I didn't think that that system was broken per se.
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  But one of my old bosses gave me the opportunity to, you know, run a branch and I said, okay,
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  well, if I'm going to run a branch, I kind of have to lead by example.
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  So I better start taking things a little more serious.
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  And that's kind of what really got me really looking to Facebook ads, Instagram and just
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  doing a lot of stuff online.
• 11:49
  And to be honest, I came across your podcast and I told you this when we met, you know,
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  I listened to every single episode every day and that's all I did.
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  So I learned, I started to like I said, take the business more serious and start to figure
• 12:04
  out what was I missing?
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  You know, I'm super competitive.
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  I played basketball my whole life.
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  So for me, it was, okay, now it's time to work out.
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  I got to get serious about what I'm doing.
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  And from there, started to figure out if I can generate leads myself, now I have, I
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  kind of hold the carts.
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  I pick who I want to work with.
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  Everything every other lender's doing to me is, it's not even comparable to me being
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  able to generate leads for agents.
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  So once I started doing that, I really started to look for the agents that would value that
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  and not necessarily want me to just pay for, you know, their CRM and call it a day after
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  that.
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  You mentioned something as you were leading into that description, with the diversification
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  for you to self-gen your own leads, I'm glad you pointed this out.
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  But what you said was you didn't feel that that model, meaning agents as a source of business,
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  you didn't feel that that was broken.
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  And I like that you said that, because I'm sure you've seen this in the industry.
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  There's some folks who, like, put out there, it's either or.
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  It's like, you got to go consumer direct, forget realtors, right, their pain in the ass
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  and all this kind of stuff.
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  And my argument is, why, why can't it be both?
• 13:18
  Yeah, yeah.
• 13:19
  Yeah, I mean, part of it was I got frustrated with agents because I just felt no matter
• 13:25
  how good you do on a deal, how fast you close, what rate you gave the client, that still
• 13:31
  doesn't warrant you getting all their deals.
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  And I just felt like, well, there's got to be a better way.
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  And it can't just be paying for their business either.
• 13:41
  So going consumer direct was my way of saying, okay, if I can hold the cards, I can kind
• 13:48
  of dangle the character to the agent.
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  And now, let's see if they really want to build a partnership together, or are they
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  still looking at me as a vendor?
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  And if that's the case, hey, you know what, I'm not your guy.
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  And you can go find someone else, you know.
• 14:02
  So you've been serious about social media for about two years, right?
• 14:07
  Yeah.
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  What's it done for you since you really got serious?
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  I think we've started to build more of a brand for usself, not only actually recruiting
• 14:18
  wise, because one of the first loan officers we recruited in our branch, he DMed me on Instagram.
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  And since then, we've hired probably five or six other people.
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  I've had agents reach out directly, just saying, hey, I've seen your videos.
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  I want to work with you.
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  So I mean, it's opened up a lot of doors.
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  And I don't necessarily keep an ROI on it.
• 14:42
  I know a lot of people look at that type of stuff, but I mean, I think you got the ROI
• 14:47
  right there.
• 14:48
  Are you just described it?
• 14:49
  Yeah.
• 14:50
  I tell you this month, we'll probably surpass all the business we did last year.
• 14:55
  So take out some of the refiies out of that.
• 14:59
  And I mean, we're probably still pretty damn close to it.
• 15:04
  And any of your social media have you done paid ads yet?
• 15:09
  Yeah, I've spent a boatload of my Facebook last year.
• 15:12
  Yeah.
• 15:13
  And a lot of it was trial and error, you know, I worked with another company that
• 15:20
  was really heavy on Facebook ads.
• 15:23
  And I hired them.
• 15:24
  I thought that was going to be the cure to everything, but it wasn't, you know, I was spending
• 15:30
  probably two to 4,000 a month just in retainer fees and add, you know, add spend.
• 15:36
  And I don't think we even closed one deal for the whole year.
• 15:39
  So it sucked.
• 15:41
  But I knew how to run ads.
• 15:45
  But again, I think it's just, you know, the algorithm changes it.
• 15:48
  And you have to kind of change how you can run your ads and stuff.
• 15:52
  So we're constantly trying to figure out how we can get better with that part of the business.
• 15:58
  So you aren't abandoning your agent marketing efforts?
• 16:03
  No.
• 16:04
  Yeah.
• 16:05
  Still, we still spend a lot of time, you know, every deal that we get in escrow, we're
• 16:09
  always reaching out to them, trying to get the, trying to get meetings with them.
• 16:13
  And then kind of like what we talked about, you know, we started our digital boot camp
• 16:18
  earlier in, you know, earlier in the year.
• 16:20
  So that was kind of another piece that again, I wanted to differentiate ourselves from
• 16:25
  everybody else and see if we can get, you know, get more bodies into the room with us.
• 16:30
  Yeah, it's a good transition because we're going to talk about your digital boot camp
• 16:35
  in just a second, but that's what really caught my attention when you and I started chatting
• 16:38
  and I saw what you're doing online.
• 16:41
  And I think the problem with a lot of loan officers is in how they approach real estate
• 16:48
  agents or the mindset about real estate agents, right?
• 16:51
  They put them in this category of bucket of either they're not loyal or they just want
• 16:55
  you to pay for their leads, whatever, whatever label you attached to them.
• 16:58
  I mean, I'm not, I'm not saying that's not accurate, what I'm saying is you don't have
• 17:01
  to accept that, right?
• 17:03
  You can approach agents differently, which is why I wanted you to talk about first, first
• 17:08
  of all, your digital boot camp, explain what that is, why did you start it?
• 17:13
  So I came up with the idea of the last towards the end of part of last year when I moved
• 17:16
  over to loan depot and it was basically breaking down what we're doing on social media.
• 17:23
  So I took our Instagram, our Facebook, our LinkedIn, YouTube and I said, if I can create
• 17:33
  a platform and a class to show them exactly what we're doing, why we're doing it and the
• 17:38
  results that we're getting over an eight week period, which I've condensed to one week
• 17:44
  now.
• 17:45
  I felt, if I can get agents to meet with me every week for eight weeks, there's no way
• 17:51
  I can't get their business and I'm really showing them how to generate business themselves
• 17:56
  and I'm fixing a lot of their problems because a lot of agents want to do social media,
• 18:01
  but they don't know where to start.
• 18:02
  They don't know what to post or they've tried it and it's, you know, they feel like it
• 18:06
  doesn't work.
• 18:07
  So it's kind of just dispelling all those myths right then in their live in the class.
• 18:14
  I have a videographer on my team, so for me it was content for myself, content I could
• 18:19
  give to the agents and just kind of showing a little behind the scenes of how we're actually
• 18:24
  helping agents and it's not just, you know, where, you know, no one knows about what
• 18:30
  we're doing.
• 18:31
  So now it's kind of the premise behind it when we first got started.
• 18:34
  Yeah, and so this is you teaching basically social media related classes over Zoom.
• 18:39
  Initially, we were doing it in person.
• 18:41
  Right.
• 18:42
  Before COVID.
• 18:44
  We were doing it in person and we got good traction, you know, the first class we had
• 18:49
  about 10 agents show up and I think out of those 10 agents, we ended up closing four or
• 18:54
  five deals off of that group.
• 18:57
  So, you know, my, I envisioned that however many people I got into the class, I could
• 19:02
  probably convert almost half of them to get us business.
• 19:07
  So if I was doing this class, you know, like I said, it was every eight weeks, it would
• 19:12
  equate to, I forget what the number was, but you know, 30, 40 deals maybe in a year.
• 19:17
  Right.
• 19:18
  Just off of the class, but COVID hit, I wasn't too confident, you know, with the whole
• 19:25
  streaming thing because it just talking to a camera just was really weird to me in the
• 19:30
  beginning.
• 19:31
  Yep.
• 19:32
  So I kind of put it to the side, but as things, we got more comfortable with it, we just
• 19:36
  rolled it out again and last, I think it was like two weeks ago, we held it.
• 19:40
  We had about 80 RSVPs and about 15 show actually confirmed and actually showed up.
• 19:47
  Got it.
• 19:48
  And so right now, it was eight weeks, but now how many times are you hosting these in
• 19:52
  a week?
• 19:53
  It's like, it's like five sessions or something?
• 19:54
  Yep.
• 19:55
  Yep.
• 19:56
  Monday through Friday, we went from five to six PM.
• 19:58
  Uh-huh.
• 19:59
  Okay.
• 20:00
  Good.
• 20:01
  And so you're hosting those, you're putting together to curriculum and all that stuff,
• 20:04
  right?
• 20:05
  So do you have any guests come in or?
• 20:08
  No, it's just just myself and a lot of it too is, you know, I, I want the dialogue
• 20:14
  with the agents.
• 20:15
  I want them really expressing, you know, what they're having problems with and I give
• 20:19
  them some, some homework every day, things to challenge them.
• 20:22
  So that way the next day, I have stuff to talk about because essentially, I want them
• 20:27
  to get over whatever, you know, roadblocks that they have in their head about posting
• 20:32
  or videos.
• 20:34
  So I challenge them and we kind of dangle some carrots for them.
• 20:38
  So that way, you know, they hopefully they can get around to it.
• 20:41
  Um, and what would be, um, what would be an example of a homework assignment?
• 20:45
  So one of the things is it's, um, I asked them to do like a quick bio video.
• 20:49
  So just tell me about your why, why'd you get into the business?
• 20:52
  Why would someone choose to work with you?
• 20:55
  Um, you know, because sometimes it's thinking about what, what content to post, that's
• 21:01
  like their biggest hurdle.
• 21:02
  But hey, if you can do a quick, you know, minute video about yourself, that's an easy
• 21:06
  thing to think about, right?
• 21:08
  You're not having to memorize lines.
• 21:10
  It's more of just, right.
• 21:11
  Hey, here's why I'm in the business.
• 21:13
  Here's kind of what, you know, gets me up every day and it's, it just kind of gives
• 21:17
  them a good icebreaker and also gets them to realize that the post doesn't always necessarily
• 21:23
  have to be about real estate.
• 21:25
  Doesn't always have to be about mortgage.
• 21:27
  In fact, when you talk about, you know, who you are, you're, you're authentic side.
• 21:32
  That's probably going to get you the most, you know, uh, engagement on social.
• 21:36
  Yeah.
• 21:37
  The raw and the real.
• 21:39
  Yeah.
• 21:40
  And, and I show them, you know, some of the past videos that we've done with other agents,
• 21:44
  um, we take, I have a couple of screenshots of some of them that were just deathly terrified
• 21:50
  of the camera, you know, and kind of the results that they got and, and they've fact that
• 21:55
  they actually got leads off of them.
• 21:57
  In fact, one of them, she made a post and she got four deals off of it.
• 22:00
  Really?
• 22:01
  Yeah.
• 22:02
  It's, it's just kind of lung post one post and she did not want to post it and I told her,
• 22:07
  I need you to post this and it was literally a photo of herself and she was just talking
• 22:12
  about her family, her son and she got probably like 50, 60 comments and four deals came
• 22:21
  off of that one post.
• 22:22
  Wow.
• 22:23
  That's awesome.
• 22:24
  Does she have that agent's loyalty now, huh?
• 22:26
  Yeah.
• 22:27
  Yeah.
• 22:28
  Absolutely.
• 22:29
  But that's the thing.
• 22:30
  You know, it's just like to get them to realize, like I said, it doesn't have to be about
• 22:32
  real estate.
• 22:33
  And even for us on the mortgage side, you know, it doesn't have to be about down payment
• 22:37
  assistance or PMI or structuring loans at the end of the day, no one really cares about
• 22:42
  that.
• 22:43
  Right.
• 22:44
  It's white noise.
• 22:45
  People want to know that, Hey, I can trust this person.
• 22:46
  I like this person and I want to do business and, you know, that's something that we really
• 22:51
  try to hit home with all the agents, you know, it's just, just be you at the end of
• 22:55
  the day.
• 22:56
  Right on.
• 22:57
  Right on.
• 22:58
  All right.
• 22:59
  So tell me how you get agents to show up.
• 23:01
  What tools are you using to get them to attend your Zoom?
• 23:05
  So initially before COVID happened, we were doing a happy hour.
• 23:11
  So that was kind of my funnel to get agents into the class was just kind of getting them
• 23:15
  to introduce to us, seeing where, you know, how we work, our offices and we work.
• 23:21
  So, you know, everyone loves the space and I just kind of peaked their interests.
• 23:26
  So from there, it was then trying to get them into the class.
• 23:30
  But now that COVID's happened, you know, we're basically relying on Facebook ads to get
• 23:34
  agents into the seats.
• 23:36
  So most of the people that you're inviting are cold.
• 23:39
  You don't have a relationship with them.
• 23:41
  Yep.
• 23:42
  Every single one of them.
• 23:43
  All right.
• 23:44
  So break, break down for me.
• 23:45
  You don't have to go super deep, but kind of like the promotion timeline strategy.
• 23:49
  How often are you running this five session series?
• 23:53
  I just started it up.
• 23:54
  I haven't decided when we're going to go live again with another one.
• 23:57
  I'm thinking sometime in August, but typically we'll start the ads about two weeks before.
• 24:04
  And then from there, you know, we're reminding people a few days out.
• 24:08
  I'm trying to get confirmations at the same time of who's actually going to show up.
• 24:12
  So I do ask them questions prior to the class, you know, like what are some of their frustrations?
• 24:19
  What do they hope to gain?
• 24:20
  Take me, take me through that though.
• 24:21
  So you're running an ad, right?
• 24:22
  And you're using some of the interests targeting that we can use still on Facebook, like
• 24:27
  job title, realtor, for example.
• 24:29
  Yep.
• 24:30
  And I've got, I've got some realtor lists and stuff that I've had from the past.
• 24:33
  So that's in my custom audience.
• 24:35
  Custom audiences.
• 24:36
  Okay.
• 24:37
  Yep.
• 24:38
  Okay.
• 24:39
  Very smart.
• 24:40
  So what's the ad?
• 24:41
  Where do they go once they click on it?
• 24:43
  Basically just, you know, hitting them with the pain, you know, hey, are you needing help
• 24:47
  on social media?
• 24:48
  You know, you don't know what the post is branded with you in it or is just in the need
• 24:51
  with.
• 24:52
  Yeah.
• 24:53
  I do a video.
• 24:54
  I just do a video.
• 24:55
  Okay.
• 24:56
  Yeah.
• 24:57
  Quick, like 30 second video, just kind of hitting them real quick of, again, their pain
• 25:00
  points, everything that we've taken, you know, that we have data on the last few classes
• 25:06
  and what all the ads are struggling with and we just expose it and say, hey, look,
• 25:11
  here's a solution.
• 25:12
  You know, we're going to be doing a class for a full week and we're going to walk through
• 25:16
  all these things and we get guys to sign up and like I said, I've been sent them an email
• 25:22
  with some of the questions because at the end of the day, I want to know what that person
• 25:26
  wants to.
• 25:27
  Well, where are they going to sign up on the Zoom Reg page or something else?
• 25:31
  Just through Facebook.
• 25:32
  I like Messenger using that.
• 25:35
  Yep.
• 25:36
  Yeah.
• 25:37
  Messenger.
• 25:38
  Not to get overly technical, but understanding they've got to somehow, they've got
• 25:40
  to create a reservation on Zoom, right?
• 25:43
  So how's that?
• 25:44
  I don't do a Zoom link only until I've actually picked the people in the volume.
• 25:48
  You're vetting them.
• 25:49
  So yeah, I'm going to vet them out before the link goes out.
• 25:52
  Ah, so they're getting into a Messenger campaign from the ad they've clicked on and then
• 25:57
  you are going to start vetting them with some Q and A.
• 25:59
  Yep.
• 26:00
  Yep.
• 26:01
  And by the way, is this an automated Messenger campaign or is it live?
• 26:02
  I have a bot set up in Messenger now, a lot of the agents just never answered the question.
• 26:10
  So they would do maybe one or two and then they'd hop out.
• 26:13
  So then I'd have to manually go and send the email off and then follow up with them that
• 26:17
  way.
• 26:18
  I see.
• 26:19
  Got it.
• 26:20
  What are some of the questions you're asking them to vet them?
• 26:23
  Just, you know, what are the, where are current struggles?
• 26:25
  What are they hoping to get out of the class?
• 26:29
  What are, and I asked, I was asking them production, you know, what, how many deals a day close
• 26:34
  because really at the end of the day, I wanted to kind of pick some of the guys that's
• 26:38
  doing deal.
• 26:39
  Yeah.
• 26:40
  And, you know, obviously, I have ways to look them up too, but, you know, we would try
• 26:44
  to vet out and get a class of, at least it gives me an opportunity for business.
• 26:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:52
  So any idea, like, number of people you, and how do you, like, disqualify people?
• 26:57
  How do you let them down easily, you know?
• 27:00
  You know, it's funny.
• 27:01
  The last group that we had, like I said, we had almost 80 people and they just never
• 27:06
  replied to the email.
• 27:07
  They self-sorted themselves.
• 27:08
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  It was literally, they, they, they iced themselves out of the deal by not responding, yeah.
• 27:15
  Yeah.
• 27:16
  That's a clue.
• 27:17
  That's kind of why I didn't want the link to just go out because I didn't want a class
• 27:22
  of 50 people that were just coming and going, right?
• 27:25
  I wanted guys that were committed for the full week and that was actually a question that
• 27:29
  I asked them.
• 27:30
  I said, are you going to be able to make it five days this week?
• 27:33
  And then they asked, well, are you going to record it?
• 27:34
  I said, no, I'm not recording the class.
• 27:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:37
  And then, so for some of them, they, you know, bowed out at that point, which, again,
• 27:42
  I don't care.
• 27:43
  I wanted, you know, even if it was five people that were committed every day, I know at
• 27:48
  the end on Friday, they're going to get something out of it.
• 27:52
  And then from there, I'm pushing to meet with them one-on-one and really dive into how
• 27:56
  we can help them going forward.
• 28:00
  And what you're, because you're doing the vetting it up front, do you have a pretty good
• 28:03
  stick rate through all five sessions?
• 28:06
  We went, we started with about 10 or 12 this past class, I think, by Friday, we ended
• 28:12
  up like half of them still showed.
• 28:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:15
  What do you do with those other half?
• 28:16
  Because, you know, life happens or they get busy or whatever, but how do you handle
• 28:19
  those people?
• 28:20
  Um, we've reached back out to every single one of them this past time and tried to get
• 28:25
  it some one-on-ones and, you know, some of them, to be honest, I wouldn't want to work
• 28:30
  with them anyway.
• 28:31
  So, you know, I would say out of the six or seven that didn't show, I would say one or
• 28:36
  two is just, they're probably going to do one deal this year, you know what I mean?
• 28:42
  Well, so I want to pause on this for a second because, I mean, think about this as compared
• 28:47
  to the traditional methods of prospecting agents, goal calling, going out for coffee talks.
• 28:53
  Do you think this is more efficient?
• 28:54
  Yeah, because I can get in front of more people.
• 28:57
  Um, kind of like, if you're, I mean, just if you're a teacher class, right?
• 29:00
  If you can get in front of 20, 30 agents, um, you know, half probably won't like you and
• 29:06
  the other half, it's a matter of, you know, who's going to stick around, but yeah, and that's
• 29:12
  why I'm not too concerned about the amount of people that are there because I'm just really
• 29:16
  looking for that one person that I can try to connect with and, you know, start leveraging
• 29:22
  and get more business from them.
• 29:24
  How many core agents, you know, I mean, like VIPA players, if you will, that are consistently
• 29:29
  sending you business on some consistent basis, how many of those you got right now?
• 29:33
  Um, this year so far, I think we're at a little over 30.
• 29:36
  Wow.
• 29:37
  All right.
• 29:38
  So that's, that's kind of an annuity, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 29:42
  So long as they stay busy and you're doing a lot of, um, you know, um, qualifying to make
• 29:47
  sure you get the right agents in there, which helps minimize the bottom feeders and all
• 29:51
  the wasting time that we have with the normal case.
• 29:54
  Yeah.
• 29:55
  Yeah.
• 29:56
  Yeah.
• 29:57
  And that's what most people forget about like kind of like this law or law of large numbers
• 29:59
  thing and, you know, you're not going to get 100% across the finish line, but I would say
• 30:18
  if, even if the people who only finish half the deal, um, maybe you're not pursuing them
• 30:22
  for whatever reason, they're still grateful for the information and they have a really
• 30:26
  positive brand attachment to you.
• 30:28
  Yeah.
• 30:29
  And then one of the things that we did post class was get, I then migrated everybody into
• 30:36
  my private Facebook group.
• 30:38
  So even though I'm not maybe face to face with them or, you know, they really felt like,
• 30:44
  okay, I'm going to work with Sean now.
• 30:46
  They're still going to get all my content, all the videos, everything that we're doing.
• 30:51
  From there, hey, you know, if they decide to reach out 30 days later, you know, or whatever
• 30:55
  it is, they can do that, but if, you know, it still gives me that chance of their business
• 31:02
  without me necessarily having to take time out to call them all the time, you know, and
• 31:06
  follow up.
• 31:07
  I'm going to come back to that Facebook group in a second, but one of the notes that
• 31:11
  I've got from our chat is what you do once they're done with the class for testimonials.
• 31:16
  Yep.
• 31:17
  So about halfway through the boot camp, one of my challenges again is, is have them do
• 31:24
  a video testimonial.
• 31:26
  And what I will give them in return for that is a 30 day content calendar that we've
• 31:33
  mapped out for them.
• 31:34
  So it tells them what to post, where to post it, and give them some ideas of ad copy and
• 31:40
  just things like that over 30 days.
• 31:42
  So obviously that's one of the things they all struggle with.
• 31:46
  And it gets me some video testimonial from them.
• 31:50
  And obviously we send out the PDF.
• 31:53
  That's how do you use those video testimonials?
• 31:56
  We're starting to, you know, put those together now.
• 31:59
  So we might run some ads.
• 32:02
  I haven't decided yet, but you know, it again, I think maybe going forward, you know,
• 32:07
  people that RSVP for the class, it might be something we send out just so that way,
• 32:12
  they kind of keep them excited and appreciate, yeah, we've got some other ages that have
• 32:16
  gone through here.
• 32:17
  Some of the comments that we've gotten so far.
• 32:19
  So still trying to figure that part out.
• 32:22
  I mean, at some point you might want to consider, I don't know, possibly a landing page,
• 32:26
  right?
• 32:27
  That with your, your, whatever you call your class platform and all that kind of stuff.
• 32:30
  And there you could feature those testimonials, you know, yeah, that's actually my videographer
• 32:35
  has said that he's like, you know what, if this thing starts to get some legs, maybe
• 32:40
  you know, we need a full website on its own that just houses all the testimonials, houses,
• 32:46
  everything there.
• 32:47
  So it's, it's something we've talked about.
• 32:50
  It could be a very, it doesn't have to be complex at all.
• 32:53
  A very simple one page thing, you know?
• 32:54
  Okay, so back to your private Facebook group.
• 32:57
  I know you've got a couple of different ways you leverage that.
• 33:01
  I think if I remember, you've got like an A group and a B group, but tell me how you're
• 33:04
  leveraging the private Facebook groups.
• 33:06
  So we put everyone that's enrolled into the boot camp, into one specific Facebook group.
• 33:13
  And I post the Zoom links in there and I kind of force them to use it because, you know,
• 33:18
  part of the class is getting comfortable on social, right?
• 33:22
  So if they're not using groups, I tell them that's something you should start doing because,
• 33:28
  you know, email marketing is not the same.
• 33:30
  And I have a private Facebook group for all of my past clients, you know, we've got
• 33:34
  over a hundred people in there and get whose content they see when I post.
• 33:39
  It's me.
• 33:40
  Do you find out those people are active in the past clients?
• 33:42
  Yeah, yeah.
• 33:43
  Because then the cool thing with the groups, right?
• 33:44
  You can see who actually looks at your posts.
• 33:46
  Right.
• 33:47
  So you can kind of keep track of that too.
• 33:49
  Yeah.
• 33:50
  So we get pretty good engagement in there and same thing with the agents, it's getting them
• 33:55
  accustomed to how the group could work with, you know, me obviously posting and sharing
• 34:01
  in there, but getting them to think outside the box too of how they could start creating
• 34:05
  their own groups, going forward.
• 34:08
  And you on one of the classes you recently did, I think it was the first group you did,
• 34:13
  you've got deals out of that pretty quickly.
• 34:17
  Yep.
• 34:18
  Yeah.
• 34:19
  That's awesome, man.
• 34:20
  I mean, it's really about, I mean, it's, it's, it sounds so simple to say it.
• 34:23
  And I know it's cliche.
• 34:24
  And if I look over at my whiteboard, right, it's a big letters value versus price.
• 34:30
  And that's the game with us as originators is what's our value prop?
• 34:34
  How do we differentiate against all the noise in our local market, which tends to be the
• 34:38
  same?
• 34:39
  You're leading with an educational platform and it's working.
• 34:42
  Yeah.
• 34:43
  And that was the one of the, like you said, it's cliche.
• 34:47
  It's kind of simple, but at the same time, a lot of us struggle with that.
• 34:51
  You know, I mean, I talked to an agent yesterday, they're firing their lender.
• 34:57
  They want to work with us.
• 34:58
  And I asked her, I was like, well, what's some of the problems that you had?
• 35:01
  You know, and they're just like, communication.
• 35:03
  I was like, well, that should be like a given, like, and I told the agent, I go, if, if
• 35:09
  a lender has to walk in here and tell you, hey, I've got great communication and I can
• 35:12
  close your deals, I was like, that's, why would you even work with that guy, right?
• 35:17
  It's just like, hey, I should get credit for showing up to work today.
• 35:21
  But, um, really, they dropped the ball in communication.
• 35:24
  Yeah.
• 35:25
  You know, but it's just like to me that that's a given.
• 35:26
  And if that's your, that's your pitch, right?
• 35:29
  That's your.
• 35:30
  That's P then.
• 35:31
  Yeah.
• 35:32
  I mean, you don't stand a chance.
• 35:33
  I'll take that business from you any day of the week.
• 35:36
  And also, this deals with the concept.
• 35:38
  I've talked to L.O.s out there who have the perception, well, let me ask you this, well,
• 35:43
  two parts to this, my brain's working too fast.
• 35:46
  One is the L.O. perception that agents are getting this training from somewhere else.
• 35:53
  What do you think?
• 35:56
  It is.
• 35:57
  And there's a lot of, you know, title companies that will bring in people to do social media
• 36:00
  classes, but I sat through some of those and I just feel like they're not really diving
• 36:06
  into the native region of what they're, yeah, it's the 30,000 foot view, which we can
• 36:12
  all Google, we can all read and know the basics.
• 36:15
  But show me, you know, show me the back end of someone's system that actually is making
• 36:20
  it work, right?
• 36:21
  I mean, if you're spending a ton of money and what, where are the leads coming from?
• 36:25
  What was the ad copy?
• 36:27
  What did you say?
• 36:29
  So I think there's a lot of that that's missed and that's kind of why when I did the class,
• 36:33
  you know, I wanted to show the agents, like we show them photos of our back end of our
• 36:38
  system and engagement that we've gotten to show, like, look, it's not just me telling you
• 36:43
  that video works, like, look at these last 10 videos, look at how many views we got, you
• 36:48
  know, we show them the difference from LinkedIn to Instagram to Facebook and it's, you know,
• 36:54
  to me, it's just a transparency that I feel like it's, it's missed, you know, with a
• 36:58
  lot of classes.
• 36:59
  What do you think, like, when social distancing comes back and we're allowed to get face-to-face,
• 37:04
  again, any thoughts on how this will look, you know, with Zoom versus in-person?
• 37:11
  I'm definitely going to double down and start doing them in-person again.
• 37:14
  Really?
• 37:15
  Yeah.
• 37:16
  Obviously.
• 37:17
  I just felt like I could build more rapport and get more feedback from the agents being
• 37:23
  there versus the Zoom.
• 37:25
  Zoom's more convenient, but I'm not going for convenience.
• 37:29
  I'm going for people that are going to buy into what I'm doing.
• 37:33
  And again, taking carve out an hour in their day and I get five hours with an agent in
• 37:38
  a week, even if they have a lender.
• 37:41
  There's no way they're spending five hours with their lender in a month, right?
• 37:45
  So now I bring in a whole different perspective on what we do without even having to really
• 37:51
  sell the agent.
• 37:54
  I'm going to get that meeting.
• 37:56
  Yeah.
• 37:57
  And I thought of this as well.
• 37:59
  I think it's the classic, you know, blend the online with the offline and the online Zoom
• 38:04
  version of these can drive to those in-person meetings.
• 38:07
  Yeah.
• 38:08
  Yeah.
• 38:09
  And I'm sure we'll test it out.
• 38:10
  You know, we'll see what kind of engagement we get and if it's not as, you know, what
• 38:15
  we expect and yet we can always go right back to, you know, doing Zoom again.
• 38:19
  So, well, and the reality is you can really do both, like what I'm envisioning for the
• 38:22
  classes that I do is, is having when that all comes back, who knows when, is actually
• 38:30
  still do some online classes, but convert some of those to your once a month in-person
• 38:35
  class.
• 38:36
  Yeah.
• 38:37
  You know, that kind of thing.
• 38:38
  We wrap up.
• 38:39
  I know you're busy.
• 38:40
  I've been impressed with your presence on social media.
• 38:42
  You're doing cool stuff with video on your YouTube channel right now.
• 38:45
  We'll put links to all this in the show notes so people can follow you.
• 38:50
  What's your preferred social media platform?
• 38:54
  We use everything.
• 38:55
  I mean, everything that we create gets distributed everywhere.
• 38:59
  So we'll go Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.
• 39:03
  Yeah.
• 39:04
  So you're doing the pillar content and then creating micro content from yep, yep, yep.
• 39:08
  Okay.
• 39:09
  Well, it's funny though, because very few loan officers are on YouTube or on it in
• 39:13
  the right way.
• 39:14
  Is there a specific objective you have with YouTube?
• 39:16
  I just feel like YouTube is so hard to figure out that you can't really pay for likes.
• 39:22
  I mean, I guess you could, or pay for followers like Instagram back in the day, but I feel
• 39:28
  like if you can build an audience on YouTube, that's pretty authentic.
• 39:33
  And it takes time and you're not going to get the within 30 days, hey, I've got another
• 39:40
  hundred followers.
• 39:41
  You might get one new subscriber, so I feel that if you're not really playing the long
• 39:46
  game, you'll give it a shot, but you're going to quit.
• 39:51
  And you know, I think that's something that for us, like we're not going anywhere.
• 39:54
  So we're going to keep trying to figure that thing out because if we can get to a thousand
• 39:59
  subscribers and you know, thousands, tens of thousands of people watching what we're doing,
• 40:04
  it'll turn into business eventually.
• 40:06
  Yeah.
• 40:07
  I've been doing a lot of studying myself and evaluating different social platforms and
• 40:11
  stuff, not only for me, but for obviously loan officers.
• 40:15
  And somebody mentioned in this to me the other day as a reminder with YouTube is keep
• 40:18
  in mind that you, I know you know this, but for the listeners, is that YouTube is a search
• 40:23
  engine.
• 40:24
  Yeah.
• 40:25
  And it's different than other platforms largely in that.
• 40:29
  So it's very much like Google in the sense that people are going to YouTube searching for
• 40:33
  stuff to help them solve a problem.
• 40:35
  Yep.
• 40:36
  So and I'm watching some of your videos here that have some of the higher views and it
• 40:39
  seems like the titles that deal with that tend to have gotten more views, you know.
• 40:43
  Yeah.
• 40:44
  And that's the thing too, you know, you can, you can tweak the titles.
• 40:49
  You can change the thumbnails.
• 40:50
  Right.
• 40:51
  So there's, it's, it's a lot more autonomous, I guess you could say because it's not going
• 40:55
  to just be, hey, let me post a photo and hopefully I get likes and comments.
• 40:59
  It's, you can actually go back and change some of the meta tags and your descriptions and
• 41:04
  all that stuff in there.
• 41:05
  So it's, it's something we're, we're working on, you know, yeah.
• 41:09
  And your Instagram presence is doing well also like that.
• 41:13
  Um, I can't believe I didn't follow you until just today.
• 41:16
  So I'm a follower now.
• 41:18
  So before we close out, I want to, I noticed here on your Instagram profile, it says you've
• 41:21
  got over 100 five star reviews on Zillow.
• 41:25
  And I just figured I'd ask you about what is your online review strategy.
• 41:30
  Are you still focused on Zillow?
• 41:32
  Is it Google?
• 41:33
  What's going on there?
• 41:34
  Give our clients three options, Facebook, Google and Zillow.
• 41:39
  And I just let them decide which, you know, where they want to share their reviews with
• 41:42
  us.
• 41:43
  Cool.
• 41:44
  So you, you know, it's funny, people in the past have brought up their concerns about
• 41:49
  driving people to Zillow for fear of them stealing future business.
• 41:53
  Yeah.
• 41:54
  Which, which your take on that.
• 41:55
  Um, I think that's just the scarcity mindset, man.
• 41:59
  Yeah.
• 42:00
  If you're worried about Zillow taking your, your business, they're going to do it regardless,
• 42:05
  you know, whether you're thinking about it or not, they're there.
• 42:09
  That's funny because I remember I interviewed Chris Smith from Curator and, you know, his
• 42:16
  comment on that was, if you think your clients aren't going to Zillow, you're just silly.
• 42:20
  They're going there.
• 42:22
  Yeah.
• 42:23
  We get organic leads all the time from Zillow.
• 42:26
  I mean, they'll call us directly and I'm not, I'm not paying for anything.
• 42:30
  I don't necessarily believe in paying for Zillow leads.
• 42:32
  Right.
• 42:33
  Um, I've gone down that path, but I think like, you know, like if people are searching
• 42:39
  and that's one of the, the most searched real estate websites, why not have a presence
• 42:43
  there?
• 42:44
  Yeah.
• 42:45
  Yeah.
• 42:46
  Yeah.
• 42:47
  You got to go where people's eyeballs are, right?
• 42:48
  And that's definitely one of the destinations.
• 42:49
  Yep.
• 42:50
  Um, and that's just one of the way people kind of, um, that's the currency of trust, if you
• 42:53
  will, right?
• 42:54
  Online reviews.
• 42:55
  And Zillow's the big destination, local, Google my business, that's the other big destination
• 42:58
  pretty much.
• 42:59
  Absolutely.
• 43:00
  So, all right, man.
• 43:01
  I appreciate it.
• 43:02
  Listen, what's the best place for me to put all links to your stuff, but primary place
• 43:04
  for people to reach out and follow you?
• 43:05
  Where are they?
• 43:06
  Instagram.
• 43:07
  They can, you know, on Instagram or, I mean, if people want to text, you can certainly
• 43:10
  shoot me a text too.
• 43:11
  I mean, I'm, I'm open, you know, all about helping our industry out and, you know, guys
• 43:15
  that I just, I want to say this too, because for me, like I told you this a number of times,
• 43:21
  I've watched every single one of your pieces of content and that's kind of really what
• 43:26
  got me into doing what I'm doing now.
• 43:29
  And, you know, even being able to reach out to other loan officers, you'd be surprised
• 43:34
  how many guys will actually tell you what they're doing and help out.
• 43:38
  So, you know, I know I was one of those guys that I was always hesitant, like, why would
• 43:42
  this dude even spend his time to help me?
• 43:45
  But I can, you know, say for myself, you know, I'm more than happy to tell guys what
• 43:50
  we're doing because I think if we all can push each other to be better, it only makes
• 43:55
  our industry stronger.
• 43:56
  I appreciate you sharing, man, and you shared a lot because, you know, I didn't hold back
• 44:00
  from asking questions, right?
• 44:01
  I got pretty specific, but, but you've got an abundance mentality and the pie's big enough.
• 44:06
  So, you know, that's, that's cool, man.
• 44:09
  So once again, I appreciate you being here, I'll put all the links in the show notes and
• 44:13
  listeners, you know what to do.
• 44:14
  If you like this episode, hey, leave us a review or reach out to us directly on the
• 44:17
  socials and we'll see you on the next one.
• 44:19
  Bye for now.
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